Jess's Story

Hello, I’m Stacy, the host of Mothers, Lies and DNA Surprises Podcast. Thank you for being here.  

Today Jess is sharing her story for the first time!  

Jess shares the phrase, “Community is therapy” and that is so true for so many of us, within this community and so many others as you will learn.

Many times within this community we talk about how important receiving medical information is for us when reaching out to our new families, Jess’s story is an example of the dangers for so many of us that don’t have one or both sides of our biological families medical histories…..Imagine being diagnosed with breast cancer not once but twice!  And your mother still doesn’t share your paternal truth!

At age 39 Jess was first diagnosed with early stage breast cancer and again at age 44 with metastatic breast cancer, and still after these diagnosis her mother still chose to not share the truth about Jess’s parentage.  And later when Jess did a DNA test as part of the breast cancer study, she grew up believing she was 100% Ashkenazi Jew, she brought up her ethnic results with her mother, and once again her mother still didn’t tell her the truth.  

While having an identity crisis, Jess will share how learning this truth caused her to grieve the loss of her Dad all over again!

Finding community and therapy through her breast cancer journey helped her realize very quickly in her DNA surprise that she needed to find community and therapy again!

How many of us commit to raising our children very differently then we were raised?  From a very early age we recognize this isn’t healthy or doesn’t feel good and decide we want better for our children.  Although I can speak for myself that I’ve made many mistakes along the way but I know I did do better and I hope my children do even better!

Setting boundaries, taking care of yourself, and to not live your life for someone else….Jess offers some great advice for others going through this!

 Jess shows we can care for our mothers from afar, she makes sure her mother is well cared for by coordinating her needed care while also keeping her no contact boundary!

Thank you Jess for sharing your story with all of us! 

Jess’s contact:

Instagram – my_mindful_mbc_life

Facebook – @my.mindful.mbc.life

Email - Jessfioretti8@gmail.com

Music is "Drown in your Lies" by NoxAwake via Pixabay  

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:19

Hello, I'm Stacy, the host of Mothers, Lies, and DNA Surprises Podcast. Thank you for being here. Today, Jess is sharing her story for the first time. Jess shares the phrase, community is therapy. And that is so true for so many of us within this community and so many others, as you'll learn. So many times within this community, we talk about how important medical information is for us to receive when reaching out to our new families. Justice Story is an example of the dangers for so many of us that don't have one or both sides of our biological families' medical histories. Imagine being diagnosed with breast cancer, not once, but twice. Your mother still doesn't share your paternal truth. At age 39, Amy was first diagnosed with early stage breast cancer, and again at age 44 with metastatic breast cancer. Her mother, who sat with her in the doctor's office while being asked about family history, still chosen to not share the truth about Jess's parentage. And later, when Amy did a DNA test as part of the breast cancer study, she brought up her ethnic results with her mother. She grew up believing she was 100% Ashkenazi Jew. Her mother still didn't tell the truth. Jess also shares how learning this truth caused her to grieve the loss of her dad all over again while having an identity crisis. Finding community in therapy through her breast cancer journey helped her realize very quickly in her DNA surprise that she needed to find community in therapy again. How many of us commit to raising our children very differently than we were raised? From a very early age, we recognize this isn't healthy or doesn't feel good and decide we want better for our children. Although I can speak for myself that I've made many mistakes along the way, but I know I did do better, and I hope my children do even better. Set boundaries. It's okay to take care of yourself. Don't live your life for someone else. All great advice for others going through this. Jess shows we can care for our mothers from afar. She makes sure her mother is well cared for by coordinating her needed care while also keeping her no contact boundary. Thank you, Jess, for sharing your story with all of us. Well, thank you, Jess, for being here. I want to thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your story with us for the first time. And as we were talking before I hit record, you are very new to this discovery. So I'm excited to hear your story and ask questions along the way. So if you want to tell us about your DNA surprise, how you found out and what it's been like since learning your truth.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Sure. Thank you for having me. So I guess uh I'll start back over the summer. I had submitted my DNA actually for a breast cancer research study that Rutgers was doing. I was diagnosed in 2019 at the age of 39 with breast cancer, early stage breast cancer. And in 2023, at the age of 44, I was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer. So I've been very involved in the breast cancer community, and I'm a you know big advocate for research. So I was happy to participate in this study and feel like I was making a difference. So when I got the results back, sort of like I guess uh you know, a gift from them is you get like a very vague ancestry, you know, and I always was interested in my ancestry. My father, my birth certificate father, had had a great story. There were like genealogists who wrote books about his family. And so I was very interested in that even from years ago. We had my father submit his DNA for this particular, like, you know, genealogy, these books and things like that. So I've always been interested in that. So when I got it back, I had seen, I always thought that I was 100% Ashkenazi Jewish. So when I got it back, it wasn't 100%. And it said that I had some other things, and and one of them was like Irish. And I was like, wow, I never would have guessed that. All you know, my life, I've heard about the stories of my grandparents and where they've come from. And so I had said to my mom, like, oh mom, I got I got this like ancestry from this research study I did, and it's saying that I'm like 16% Irish. And, you know, as a joke, I was like, oh, somebody strayed from the pack. And, you know, she kind of was like, Oh, I don't want to hear about that. I it whatever, you know, she kind of got like defensive about it, and I it didn't really phase me because my mom is just like that some, you know, it's just like her personality, really. So I was like, oh, that was weird, but I kind of let it go. So around Christmas time, Ancestry DNA is on sale, but I'm like, how cool would it be to learn more about you know where I came from, figure out maybe where this Irish came from. And like my, you know, my kids are always interested in in our genealogy and like they do still do those family trees in school. And I'm like, it would be cool to know, or or maybe even see like how many relatives I have out there. So I did it.

SPEAKER_04 6:13

And then just for clarification, like this last December, correct? December 25. Okay. Okay, continue.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

So I got the test. It took me a little bit of time to actually submit it. I'm not really sure why I was waiting, but you know, life just gets crazy. So I submitted it and it took a while for it to come back. And so March 26, it was like six something in the morning, and just kind of getting up from my alarm, and I see an email come in that says your your ancestry DNA results are in. So I log into the app and I'm like, oh, cool, you know, like I'm I knew I had to get up and get my kids out the door. So I was like, let me just quickly see like if there's anything cool or any interesting discoveries. And so I see at the very top this name and it says father, and then I see under that potential half sister or half aunt. And I'm like, that's weird. And I don't really know how to interpret these tests, and I'm looking down at the list and I'm like, none of these names even look familiar to me. So now my mind is running like a hundred miles a minute. I have to get my kids out the door. So I'm thinking, like, I wonder whose father this is, I wonder whose sister or aunt this is, like in my family, who's related to them, you know? And as the day is going on, I'm like, you know, thinking about it. I I actually had a training session at the gym, and I think she knew I was just like not even present the whole time because my mind was just somewhere else. I actually called Ancestry DNA and was like, I think you mixed up my kit. You know, I was like, I don't recognize any of these names. And they were like, We're really sorry that you're experiencing this, but this happens very frequently. And I was like, no, this can't be true. So I send a message through the portal to this father figure and this half sister, half aunt. And neither of them have logged on in like a while. So I'm like, let me just see where I get with this. So I send the messages. That was like before I went to the gym. I'm at the gym, I go through everything, and I'm thinking about it the entire time I'm there. And I leave and I call my mom and I'm like, oh, you know, this name popped up. It's a name I've never heard before. And I didn't tell her like the connection. I'm just like, have you ever heard of this name? And she was like, Oh, why does that name sound familiar? And then that was kind of it. She she didn't really know. And so then I get home and I have a message. I have a I have a voicemail actually, because I left my cell phone in the message through Ancestry. I have a voicemail from this half sister aunt, half aunt potential. And she was like, I would love to talk to you. Please call me back when you get a chance. So of course I like called her immediately, and we spent hours on the phone together. And you know, she kind of said to me, like, you know, I'm she kind of almost was expecting a call, you know. I guess she had remembered, you know, some history of her father being, you know, not always being faithful, and that was, you know, a hard part of her childhood. And so we're trying to go through like, how would her father and my mother have even met? Or were there any similarities between us? And so we start going through the medical stuff, of course, first. You know, one of her first questions to me was like, Do you have scoliosis? And I'm like, I actually did. I've had really bad scoliosis when I was younger. I had to wear a brace and everything. I said, My daughter was diagnosed at four years old with scoliosis and had to be in a brace at a very young age. But to me, I'm like, scoliosis is not uncommon. You know, that that doesn't really solidify anything for me. And then, you know, there were a couple other things. And then I said, Has anyone had breast cancer? And she said to me, I did. And then she started telling me how there were two other people on the paternal side that had a history, had had also had breast cancer. Her great great-grandmother, I believe, there was so much information coming at me that some of the details are like, you know, kind of wishy-washy in my own mind. And then a paternal aunt or great-aunt or something like that. And, you know, the great-grandmother had died in her 40s, died really young from breast cancer. And I'm like, gosh, I'm like, that's crazy. So she started sending pictures, you know, because I'm still not convinced breast cancer is not uncommon either. You know, her her father had always lived in New Jersey. My mother was from Brooklyn, you know, even before I was born, she hadn't lived in New Jersey very long. We were trying to compare jobs, you know, she had told me where he worked, and I actually didn't remember if my my mother had worked before I was born. So that was something I had to kind of like ask her. So she starts sending me pictures. So she sends me a picture of her, and I'm like, I don't know, I don't know if I can see a resemblance or anything. And then she sends me a picture of her sister, who is now I know also my half-sister, another half-sister. So this sister has a history of scoliosis, their father had a history of scoliosis, and they carry a genetic mutation for breast that increases your risk for breast cancer and pancreatic cancer. And she's sending these pictures of her sister when she was younger, of her now, and I'm like, oh my gosh. I showed it to my husband. I'm like, could this be real? And he was like, that is you. And I was like, I can't eat, like, I just was speechless. I'm like, there's no way. I mean, my dad was the best dad.

SPEAKER_03 12:41

The best. That's what makes it so hard.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

I'm so grateful that I grew up with him, that he raised me, that he loved me the way he loved me, because he had passed in 2017 of lung cancer, which was the most traumatic thing to ever happen to me. Losing him. And so, like, discovering all this, I was like grieving him all over again. You know, like I lost him again, like permanently. It felt more permanent, if it could even be more permanent. You know, so I was like, gosh, how could this be? Like my identity, I felt like was from him, like the things I've learned, his personality, the you know the morals, the values, like our interests. So to like find out that he was not mine. It's like having an identity crisis, you know. Yeah, so I just was like, you know, so we kind of were like, you know, giving, you know, she was giving me some things to ask, and and I was writing down my own questions, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna ask my mom these questions in a way that I could almost catch her in a lie because I think I already knew she would not own up to anything. Throughout my, you know, adult life, she has never really been one to own up to anything or, you know, or do anything. You know, she's never been in the wrong. She's always, you know, she's never taken accountability or anything for, I mean, you know, we've had a tumultuous relationship as far back as I can remember. And again, it's been on and off, like, you know, silent treatments and, you know, just uh, ugh. So I was like, I have to approach her in a way that isn't gonna make her shut down so that maybe I could get some truth before I actually like confront her or or decide. Like at this point, I was like still somewhat in denial. I don't know. It was just like an out-of-body experience. So I'm questioning her, you know, about her jobs and where she worked. And so she gave me some information. And on the side, I'm also like secretly messaging my aunt, who is my father's sister, because if this is true, I was like, I can't come out with this to her right now. She loved my father, he was like her favorite, you know. Like, I mean, they were just had a great relationship. I'm very close with her and and my cousins from that side of the family. So I was like, I have to kind of approach this in a way that I'm gonna like have the facts that can't be denied by her. So I'm like, okay, you know, I'm writing all this information down. And then, you know, I had asked my cousin on my father's side, my first cousin, I was like, you did ancestry DNA. And she was like, Yes, and so did her daughter. And I was like, You are not popping up as a match for me. And I told her what I found, and she was like, you know, at first she was like, Are you going down a rabbit hole? Like, what are you doing? You know, and I was like, but then I was like, I don't even see any anyone from my mother's side that's familiar. So I also messaged some of my first, my first cousin and some of my other cousins, like some of her first cousins on that side, not explaining to them what happened. They don't even know right now, like they have no idea as of today. Just kind of asking them, have you ever done ancestry DNA? You know, things like that. And none of them ever submitted a DNA sample. So I guess it would be expected that they wouldn't show up. And then I had told you earlier that my father, we had submitted his DNA to actually a very distant cousin who lived in another country and was kind of doing the genealogy of his family and you know, trying to place him on their family tree and in their books and things like that. So he had my father's DNA. So I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna reach out to him. So I message him on Facebook. He's living in Spain, and I'm like, you know, I I have this discovery and I just don't know if they messed it up. Like, I just want to have something to compare it to. Can I send you a sample and you compare it to my father's? And he was like, Well, if you get me the raw data from Ancestry DNA, I'll plug it in. And I was like, Okay. So that morning my kids got on the bus, and before I even, you know, went to the gym that day, I sent it to him because they're like, you know, I'm texting, I'm messaging him. It's like two in the morning, you know. You know, so I'm messaging him and he puts it in and he's like, it's not a match. And I'm like, gosh, but how else can I confirm this? You know? So anyway, I I kind of talked to my mom later that night, and I'm like, you know, I did this ancestry. I said, I'm trying to just fill out like the family tree part. It's kind of like this cool feature they have, you know, and it asks for like professions. I'm like, so before I was born, did you ever have any job? You know, did you work or anything? Because I knew what she did when I was younger. And she told me how she had worked for this like recruiting agency. And so I was like, I I didn't have that as one of my, you know, potential half-sister, half-aunts jobs that she had told me he had. So I called her and I was like, you know, my mom said she worked for this recruiting agency. And she was like, my father worked for a recruiting agency. And, you know, I was like, that has to be it. That's the only thing that it could be. So I the next morning was Friday morning, and Thursday night I did not sleep. Like, I mean, my husband knew. He was like, You did not sleep at all last night. And I was like, I'm just my mind was just all over the place. Like I could not sleep. And I was gonna wait until Sunday night to confront my mom because she has some caregivers that go into the home and take care of her during the day. So I was like, I'm gonna wait till Sunday when they're all gone and kind of like confront her about this. Ironically, that morning I had gotten a call from the caregiver service that the age she had called out, but that she also quit. She doesn't want to work for my mom anymore. Now, my mom wasn't the nicest to her, so I kind of understood. I'm surprised it took her that long to quit. But I was like, maybe this is my sign. I had to go over there and because we have to give her her medication. So I'm like, I have to go over there now. So I'm just gonna confront her while I'm there. So and I was like, you know what? It's probably better because I wouldn't have slept all weekend. So yeah, so I, you know, I had, oh, you know what, let me backtrack because there was a point in time where I was questioning her and she was like, I don't know where you're going with this. You're not adopted. We didn't adopt you. So she, you know, I don't know if it didn't register or she was still trying to keep up the lie, but anyway, so then I go Friday and I decide to confront her. So I get there, I give her her medication, I let her have her breakfast, and after that, I said to her mom, you know, how I've been doing this um ancestry DNA. And I brought up the the app on my phone and I put it down in front of her, and I said, It's saying that this man is my father. And she looked at me and she covered her mouth, and I could see the look in her eye that you know she was about to be found out, and she said, Daddy's your father, and I said, Mom, DNA doesn't lie. I was like, I deserve to know the truth, and that's when she said, Yes, he is your father, and I was like, I I was still in such a state of shock, and I still also wanted to get all the information that I could before like losing it, and so I was asking some questions, and I really only got that, you know, she met him at work, you know, and then it was like a lot of playing the victim. I was so naive, he was a smooth talker, and mind you, in this whole time, there was never And I'm so sorry. Like never. It was always like I need to come up with something quickly to make it seem like, you know, this wasn't totally my fault. And, you know, so I listened to what she's saying. And then I said, you know, I have two half sisters. And she was like, well, you're not going to meet them, are you? And I was like, yeah, I am. I said, and one of them had breast cancer, mom. I said, apparently it runs on that side of the family. And even that wasn't enough to get any kind of empathy or an apology. Like she still was just like, when I told her I was going to meet them, it was like, oh no, this is bad. They're going to want to, you know, have a relationship. Like she was worried that me having a relationship with them was going to now get out, whether it be social media or whatever she was, you know, thinking at that time. And I just was like, I couldn't believe it. And she said, I think she had said to me, like, do you hate me? That's what she said. And I was like, I don't hate you. And I explained to her how one of my best friends actually had a discovery like this, not that she did an ancestry test, but that a brother came out of the woodwork because he knew about her. And she was like later in life, and she confronted her mom, and her mom confessed. But her and her mom had a great relationship. I mean, so it was different. So, you know, I said to her about my best friend's experience because she was like, Did you, did you tell any of your friends? And I was like, Yeah, I did. And I, because why shouldn't I? I need someone to talk to, you know. I told my husband, I told my closest friends. And I said to her, you know, one of my friends had a similar experience. And she was like, Did she hate her mom? And I was like, No, she didn't. They had a very good relationship, but you know, that's why she didn't hate her. So, you know, I kind of just tried to get what I could. Honestly, my head was just in a cloud. Again, like surreal, out-of-body experience. I didn't even cry or get mad or anything. I felt like I just was frozen. I couldn't have emotion at that time when I'm when she's telling me this information. And but I, you know, I had asked her a couple details and she like gave me some none of nothing was ever like a for sure answer. Nothing was ever definitive. Like I had said, you know, well, because I wanted to approach it lightly also because I didn't know if something horrible happened to her. So I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt when I first started presenting the information. I'm like, gosh, what if this was a horrible situation and she just didn't want to visit it or or tell me about it because of that, you know? And then I, you know, when she told me that she knew it was him and that she met him at work and blah, blah, blah. I started asking her questions, like, well, like, how long did it last? You know, and she was like, Well, it wasn't years. So it again, not like a definitive answer. Did didn't, you know, my father didn't know, but I said, Did he know about me? Did you tell him that you were pregnant? And again, like, never a definitive answer. At first it was no, then it was he didn't want anything to do with it. So I and I left the business, I left the company soon after, or you know, like it was never, you know, it was never a definite answer. And a part of me was like, you know, I don't want to go back and tell my half-sisters, like, you know, my mom said he didn't want anything to do with me because I don't want to put that perception of him in their minds either. Like, I don't know if my mom's just trying to protect her own you know, reputation. Yeah. So I'm like, you know, it's I'm not getting a definite answer. And I and I told them all the things she was saying. I was like, so I don't really know for sure, you know. Well, can I ask?

SPEAKER_04 26:25

So, did do you know now was your biological father married? He was married, and your mother was married also to your dad. Yes, okay, so they both were married, okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Right, and so the story I always got growing up, because my parents were married for seven years. I was always told we waited to have kids for seven years.

SPEAKER_04 26:50

And are you the only?

SPEAKER_01 26:52

I'm not, I have a younger sister. Okay, wow, three years younger than me. So, well, half sister now. So, you know, and it was just like I wanted daddy to be your daddy, you know. It it was, you know, again, I was then it was like the more I started questioning, the more she became like the victim. I I was so naive. He I told you he was a smooth talker, or I was lonely. Your father was doing like playing tennis all the time. And I'm thinking to myself, I do remember my father playing tennis on the weekends. He was a hard worker. And I'm like, well, like what did you say? Like, how did he not question it? You know, and she was like, Well, I just made lies. I guess they meant they would go off after work. I don't know if she would say I had to work late or what she would say, but you know, back then there were no cell phones, there were no trackers, you know, tracking thing, you know, apps or whatever. You know, so I was just like, I'm just I think I was also hurt for my dad.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

You know, like, and the more I'm like learning about this whole situation and and the NPE, not parent expected, you know, like people and and what everyone goes through, like the more I hear about people my age, like I guess the 70s was somewhat I guess a free-for-all. I don't know. I never was aware of that, you know. So was it just because it was the 70s? I don't know, you know.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

I I think it still happens.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

I mean, oh for sure, yes. I know it's still happening to this day, but you know, so uh I just was like, okay, you know, I took the information and I I kind of got up and I was going to the door, and like that was when I got an apology, but it was almost like a formality, it felt like not sincere. Okay, you know, and I just left and I got my got in my car and I closed the door, and I just remember like sobbing in the driveway. I was like just sobbing, and all these things going through my mind, like you know, uh my father just was again amazing. Like, how could this be? I'm him, you know, like he was, and even in a situation like this, like I'm I'm glad he wasn't here to to witness this, but I'm so sad that it happened, and I'm so sad that I wasn't his, you know. I'm so sad that like he was strung along for all those years, like 40 something years, you know, like or 30 something years, because he passed when I was in my 30s, but and just like now I'm just like, well, who am I? Who is this, like, where's this other half of my identity? You know, like I and I know, you know, everyone says things to you like, you're still you, and and and you know, you're you're the person that your father raised, and like, yes, I am. I know that. I know my personality is is because of him and and how I am socially and and just as a you know what when I was working, like I know like a lot of that is because of him and the values that he instilled in me. And like I always remember my father, like he was the one who was there for me, he read me bedtime stories, he was there for me if I had to have a surgery, he was holding my hand until I went under. Like, you know, anything in life, whether when I was going through college and I was struggling, he was my voice of reason. Later in life, when I had just you know issues with my mom, he was my voice of reason. You know, when I had kids and my mom had better things to do than come to my kids' birthday parties, he was always there. You know, like it was him. He was always my person. So to learn that I wasn't biologically his was just devastating. And, you know, honestly, they say stress really affects your health. So my father had passed away in 2017, and I was still heavily grieving him in 2019 when I was diagnosed with breast cancer for the first time at 39 years old. And I'm like, I have no family history of breast cancer, and I know that happens, I know it can be environmental and all those kinds of things. So again, I never thought of anything like that. My father actually passed the lung cancer. So initially, when I went to my life genetic counselor, they were like, Well, you know, everyone has like, I guess, cancer cells in their DNA or whatever. It's whether your body can fight them off or or you know, how they grow and whatever. So I'm like, okay, you know, there was cancer on my mom's side, my grandmother, you know, so I'm like, I guess it's just, you know, shit luck that I got. Sorry, can I curse? Yes, you can curse.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Um, so you know, I'm just like, you know, I just figured, okay, well, it's just in my family, so this is why. Yeah, you've accepted it at that time. So, you know, it and then I went through everything I went through. I had surgeries, I had complications from surgeries, I had radiation, I had complications from radiation. And like throughout those few years of me dealing with all these things from being diagnosed with cancer, my mom was really not there for me. You know, it was always like, oh, you're having a surgery. Well, I need you to do this, this, and that. Or, you know, I'll never forget when I was home from surgery and I had like this outpouring of love and support from my community and my coworkers and our friends, of meal trains, of like providing my kids with, you know, activities. They were young when I was first diagnosed, and you know, like trying to keep them busy. And like, you know, my mom came over once, you know, never offered to, I mean, she wasn't a cook to begin with, but never brought a meal. My husband was working from home and on his lunch break is there doing the dishes, and she's just sitting on the couch. Like she didn't stay long. It was almost like she came just because she had to be able to tell her friends that she came to visit me. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Yeah, everything is my life has always very much been about my mother and her reputation. So when I was getting married, it was, you know, I actually was marrying outside of my religion. So in in her eyes to the community I grew up in, it was like, oh my gosh, how you know, I almost felt like she was feeling how am I gonna explain this to people?

SPEAKER_04 34:06

You know, like disgraceful for her.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Right. For her. Not not, I want you to be with someone who makes you feel loved and appreciated and loves you for who for, you know, it wasn't about that. And so we fought. We fought when I had a shower for my my wedding. We fought when I we were she was arguing with me walking down the aisle about her arm placement around mine because I walked with both my parents down the aisle. Like her arm had to be a certain way. Like it's just been everything. So yeah, so I was just heavily grieving my dad. I went through all this. I I you know, I I I went through my my healing. And then in 2023, I was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer. I had a recurrence. Um, you know, I that was just completely devastating. And, you know, when I was first diagnosed with cancer, I was very angry and like I didn't want to take people's advice. I just wanted to do what I had to do and move on with my life. I wanted to go back to my work, I wanted to go back to my family and living our lives. And then I got hit with this diagnosis and I was like, oh my gosh, now what? You know, like is this it? And so my husband and I, you know, I found a lot of support groups similar to this. I tell my husband, like, I think being diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer and then seeking out the community and having the support from them, you know, and and knowing that I, you know, I started going to the therapy to a therapist and like doing other things to heal my mind. It almost prepared me for dealing with this trauma because, you know, like I immediately sought out support groups on Facebook. I I called my therapist that I had talked to for cancer, like the next day and was like, I need an appointment. And I'm like, I know this isn't what you're typically talking to people about, but like she's helped me in the past, even with dealing with my mom. You know, she's the one who brought to my attention, your mom has to have accountability for her actions before I ever made this discovery. So this has been an ongoing relationship, you know, an issue. So I I called her immediately and I got into therapy with her and I had a session with her. And, you know, she did make me real because I'm like, how am I gonna manage my relationship with my mother now? I like I was just I don't even want a relationship. But I knew that I was involved in her care, involved in her, you know, some other things, you know, and I'm just like, how do I manage this part of that and not and and have boundaries? And and like I I just was like, I I need to be no contact. Like I I can't do this, you know. I said to my husband, I'm like, this woman, it's it's torture. It's just I felt tormented. I'm suffocated. Like, even if I wanted to cut it all off, I can't. So, you know, I I worked through it all, and you know, my therapist gave me some really great advice for when she's sending me her rambling text messages and capital letters and exclamation points, like, you know, that her emergency or her urgency is not my emergency, you know, things like that. Like I don't have to respond to those text messages. I do have a way to communicate to her caregivers, and that's really my concern is just, you know, the caregivers are there, they're giving her her medication, and things are being taken care of. That's really like the extent of what I need to worry about. You know, but my mother had called me, you know, I had talked to her like that weekend after I had found out because I really haven't spoken to her since, you know, and and when I told her, I told my husband she was upset. And so she had texted me later in the day and said, you know, well, I had called her asking her some more questions. Because after I left, I was like, gosh, I have like 8,000 more questions to ask her, you know? And she her words to me were Jessica, I put this out of my head decades ago. I'm not talking about it anymore. It is what it is. And I was like, you just like ruined my entire life.

unknown 38:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

I mean, you just dropped a bomb on me for me to pick up the pieces by myself with having and having unanswered questions, and she just really could care less, is is how you know for clarification, she didn't drop the bomb on you because she didn't tell you.

SPEAKER_04 39:09

Well, true. Yeah, you found this out. I guess her admission was the bomb dropping, but yeah, I never mind what it was. But in and I hear a lot of people within our community who say this that just as your mother did. Well, I put this out of my head decades ago. And my first immediate thought is my response would be well, then it's gonna take me those same amount of decades to process this. You had, because you were how old? 40 46, 46. You have 46 years to do to get to where she's at with this right now. And that's what angers me is yes, they've known since the beginning or early on, right? We don't I don't know exactly when my mother realized I wasn't my birth certificate father's inside with your mom. She may have really hoped you were your dad's, but she's had 46 years to come to terms with it, whatever that looked like for her. And now you're a couple months in and she wants you to stop talking about it. Right. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

And the main thing too is not not am I only so hurt about the betrayal that she has, you know, given to myself and my father, but you know, the medical history. Yeah, I found out that my half-sisters have been getting screened, I believe both of them, maybe maybe just one of them, but I mean, at least they've had awareness, yeah, have been getting screened or or have had awareness since their 20s.

unknown 40:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

If I had known, maybe I could have had earlier screenings. And I I know I can't change that, and I know that's not something she would have known. But when I'm diagnosed at a young age with breast cancer, and we have no family history, and you are harboring a secret like this. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 41:04

My father's time to tell you, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Right. And my father had already passed.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Like can you put your shame aside and your reputation aside for the sake of your child and her health?

SPEAKER_04 41:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Her life. And that's where I just feel like as a mom myself now, how could you call yourself a mother? You are not, she is I would never be this way towards my child, my children, you know, like and I and I I just think I'm so and that's what really like finalized things for me. I I mean, decades of a tumultuous relationship, her bad mouthing me to her friends, her, you know, family members. I mean, I know the awful things that she said about me to people. And I haven't even confronted it because I don't have to justify myself to anybody. They have no idea what I've gone through with this woman throughout my life, you know. So it's like, I don't really that that never really like bothered me as much. But this, you know, just really kind of finalized it for me. Like, you are that selfish and narcissistic that you couldn't even say something to me about this when you knew my health was at stake.

SPEAKER_04 42:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

And I'm like, I don't think I can ever put down my boundaries or have the contact anymore. Because when you say to me, it is what it is, you know, like, and then she said to me, so then she had texted me that night and was like, you know, I I can't come to your house anymore since you told your husband. He's gonna tell his mother, his mother lives with me, which she's always resented, also my our entire life. My children have a wonderful relationship with her. They do not have a wonderful relationship with my mother, partially, not partially, but because I have shielded them from the stuff that I've gone through with her. And I never wanted them to feel the way I felt in her presence. So we've always had a relationship. We've gone on vacations, we've celebrated like holidays together, and it it's just it is what it is. You know, when my kids were small, my mom used to get so insulted that they wouldn't like run into her arms and give her like a big hug. But honestly, like, I don't think I even ever had a relationship with her like that when I look back at it. You know, I wouldn't expect them to either. They truthfully, I could see their discomfort sometimes around her. And throughout their childhood, when we've tried to make plans, she She's always canceled or had a headache, and it went on on such a cycle that after a while I was like, I'm not making plans anymore. Stop asking.

unknown 44:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

And you can complain about that to your friends and tell them I don't let you see your grandchildren. But the truth, I know the truth, and I know the reality. So, you know, I'm sorry, I lost my train of them. No, from like when I was with my mother-in-law, you know, so I I just there's always been resentment there. There's always been, you know, issues there. There's always been that that rocky relationship. So, you know, that's what's been the most devastating for me is that could my cancer journey have been different? You know, there's a genetic mutation. So I actually went this morning. I had my half-sister send me their reports because I had had genetic testing back in 2019. And it nothing came up then. But they had said to me at that time, you know, technology is always changing, tests are becoming more sensitive. So come back, you know. She even said, like, come back in two years, you know, and I never went back. So now, you know, of learning that my sisters carry this genetic mutation, that I've had other family members on my biological father's side of the family die from breast cancer, that my half-sister had a breast cancer, you know, experience. I was like, I'm gonna go back for genetic testing, you know, and I spoke to my oncologist and he had done a test on me and he was like, you know, this will tell us. And so I love my oncologist, but I've still always felt like I had to advocate for myself. Like if something didn't settle, sit right with me, I was like, I don't know if I like that answer. I don't feel like that, you know. So I had gone on a breast cancer conference recently, and actually the tests that he had used on me, they were there as like a vendor. So I went over to them and I asked them, you know, I said, My half sister, I I recently discovered this, you know, and I said, My my half sisters carry this genetic mutation. Would the test that my dad performed on me in the office tell me if I have this? And she said, actually, it wouldn't, because he told me it would, but it's like a whole thing with like tumor DNA versus your germline DNA. It's like a, you know, there's a difference. So she said it wouldn't tell us if your if your, you know, like familial genetic DNA would like they call it germline, would have this mutation. So I said, okay. So I said, you know what? I'm not even waiting to go back and talk to him about it. I'm just calling the genetic counselor and gonna make an appointment. I don't care if I have to pay out of pocket.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

I want this, you know. So I went this morning and I had her report and I showed them this specific information of her mutation. It was on the report. And I'm so grateful that I did because, you know, she had explained to so much to me today. And she was like, you know, although it came up negative on that other test, it was a different lab. It does look for that, but you know, maybe it at the time it wasn't sensitive to this very specific mutation. So she actually was able to see the lab that my half-sister's blood work went to. She was able to test me using that same lab and same lab kit and submit my sister's report so that they could double and triple check that specific variant.

SPEAKER_04 47:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

And so if it comes back negative, it comes back negative. And again, it doesn't change my history. I mean, living with stage four breast cancer now, I can't change that. But for me, it's peace of mind in knowing whether I have it or not. And also because it does put you at increased risk for pancreatic cancer as well. So it would make me feel comfortable to know whether I have it or not. But also for my children, you know, and the yeah, and the genetic counselor said, you know, if if you don't carry it and your husband doesn't carry it, you can't pass on something you don't carry. So I get that. I don't necessarily have to have my children tested, but if I do have it, then I would want to, you know. So I think that's been the most devastating for me is that I am living with stage four breast cancer at 46 years old. I have young children, you know, although they're in their teens now, still young, but you know, I just like you just think back like, what if? What if things were different? What if I had known so that's been like the I guess not the hardest thing for me to process, but it's been a big, you know, it's been a big hurdle for me to process that that part of it. You know, I my biological father was 10 years older than my mom at the time I was conceived. His children were 16 and 18 at the time. You know, I don't know. I mean, I can't change anything. You know, he he has since passed. He passed like three years ago, actually. You know, and I just think like, what if I had done my DNA when my father submitted his to his like, you know, to our to that like distant cousin at the time? Like, what if I submitted mine too, just to submit it? I mean, we would have found out possibly sooner. When I looked at the ancestry and when they all submitted their DNA, it was it was like in 2013. And I just did this in 2026. So all these years, if I had would have done it sooner, I could have probably even known sooner. But again, you can't change what you can't change. And I don't know, sometimes I want to believe that everything happens for a reason in certain scenarios. You know, he recently passed away. My half-sister's mother had recently passed away, actually within the past three months. So I know when I came to them, it was probably a really difficult time to begin with. And I think that was also hard for me. Like, okay, now I'm contacting these people. Are they gonna want anything to do with me? I want to meet them just for answers, for pictures. Like, you know, they send pictures and I'm like looking for myself in their faces, you know, and I'm looking at my biological father, like, do I see myself in him? Do I see myself in my sisters? Like, you know, because it's funny, you know, recently I had been looking at my mom thinking, like, gosh, where did I get this feature from if neither of my parents had it? And it never really crossed my mind that it could be because I my father wasn't my father. It was just like, oh, maybe, maybe one of my grandparents had it, you know, because that happens, or an aunt, and I never realized it, or an uncle. So I I it never really like crossed my mind that this was a possibility, you know. So, but just you know, meeting them. So I when I had contacted this one half-sister, she actually was live, she lives in California, but my other half-sister lived close to me in New Jersey. And she had said, I'm actually gonna be in New Jersey because they were having a memorial for their mom. And so I was like, gosh, you know, all right, let's meet, let's have lunch, you know. And they were, they were very willing, you know. Again, I was not forcing anything. I know my world just got turned upside down. I don't know how they would feel about it. You know, they're older than me, they're close in age. I don't really know what kind of relationship they have as sisters. I didn't have the best relationship with my sister growing up. We're like in we're no contact right now. Her and my mother are very similar people. So I never really had that relation, that sister relationship growing up, like a closeness, you know. And I'm so grateful because my daughters are very close. I mean, I watch them as they've grown up through their childhood and now into their teens, and like they go to each other and they go to each other for advice and for clothes, and like I never had that, you know. So not that I'm looking for that in in these new half-sisters, but I didn't want rejection for sure. But again, I was gonna take whatever I got, you know. At this point, I've gone through so much crap in my life, like, you know, like I was just like, exactly, you know, if one of them is willing, great. If they're both willing, great. If neither of them are, just give me some family history and I'll I'll move on, you know, or try. And I told them, I said, you know, I'm really grateful that you guys didn't reject me from the start because it's been helpful for me to learn this part of my history. And, you know, again, I'm so grateful for the father that raised me. And so I I'm I I don't know if I'm sad or not that I didn't get to meet my biological father because, again, the fear of rejection would have, you know, is always there. So, like, maybe it's better off that things are happening this way. And I know there's a lot of shame and embarrassment that comes with a story like mine for my mother and for them and their family. So, but again, I can't change it. And, you know, I just I just wanted to know some information, you know, that's really all I wanted to know. And if they wanted to be a part of my life, bonus, because I'm I'm ready for that. I'm I'm you know, my I have such my friends, I consider them family, you know, like so. If these people are willing, my you know, and and I have family that I don't talk to, you know, so it's like blood relative. So it's like I'm willing to take or you know, give and take whatever whatever they would want this relationship to be or not to be. So we went out to eat, and it was great meeting them. I got to meet a half niece, and she was just the sweetest. I got to meet my brother-in-law, you know, my two half-sisters. They were just great. I mean, we sat and we talked, and you know, I was just happy to be in their presence that weekend. My kids got to meet them on FaceTime, my my one half sister and and her daughter, you know, and and I hadn't actually told my kids until after I met them because I was like, I need to get the information so that I can answer my daughter's questions, you know. And I had told my mom I wasn't gonna keep it from my daughters, and that was part of the reason why we weren't talking either, because she had called me and said, you know, I think maybe you should wait until they're older to tell them. And I'm thinking to myself, when? When you're gone, so you don't have to face it. Yeah, so I start. Yeah, so I'm like, I'm sorry, mom, but I I'm not like that with my kids. My kids know everything, you know, whether it's good or bad. It they just do. I I don't shield, I don't keep things from them, I don't shield them from a lot. You know, I'm careful in the way I present information to them, like when I was diagnosed with cancer and when I was diagnosed metastatic, and you know, like when I was going through this, you know, I'm careful with the way I present it to them because they are young and it is confusing, and I'm confused, you know. So, you know, I said, but I'm not gonna not tell them. And she was just like screaming, like losing her mind, and she didn't want to hear what I had to say because it wasn't what she wanted it to be, and she hung up. And I was like, sorry, you know, and I and you know, just as this was continuing on, before I found out, we had scheduled to have her roof repaired. Then I found out, and then that Monday or Tuesday, they were coming to repair the roof, and so I knew I didn't have to be there, and I wasn't going to be there, regardless. She has caregivers at the home, so you know, if there was any problems, they would let me know. And so the, you know, she's messaging me like crazy in the morning. I need you to be here. We don't have to talk or even be in the same room. I just need you to be here. So my whole life has really been about like accommodating her needs. I mean, really, that's what that's my purpose in life for her. She had me so that I can do things for her. And so I didn't respond. And to me, I'm like, she's okay with this. She's okay with us not talking. I still never got anything like I am so sorry that this happened. Uh what do you want to know? I'll tell you everything. If it makes us, if it repairs this relationship and and we can heal, because like it's out of the bag, lady. There's no going back. But sh she's willing to uh continue to protect her reputation versus the relationship with her daughter. So to me, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, you know what, then I don't owe you anything. You have not done for me or been there for me like a mother should. And if you're willing to s to protect your reputation over uh the this whole situation, uh then that just shows me that you that's what I'm saying. Like yeah, and it was just like the final thing, like it was the it was the validation I needed to know. You can stop now. You can stop feeling guilty, you can stop being at her beck and call when she's you know, when she's sending you messages at all hours of the night and the morning and of the day, like constant, you know. You can stop feeling like you have to go over there once a week and and spend time with her. Like what, you know, I mean, even when I was diagnosed stage four, it was I need this, I need that, and I have I have a sister, mind you. No, no children, you know, she's got a husband, she doesn't work full-time, but it was always me. I was the one who had to be doing everything for her. And it was always an excuse as to why my sister she wouldn't go to my sister. And like now that I'm going through all of this, I'm like, okay, well, this explains it. You know, like I was her secret. And I was always the thing she had to control. I was always the thing she had to make feel guilty for not, you know, accommodating her needs. And like I would even say to her, Mom, and and I we didn't talk for like months because I was like, Mom, I think you are failing to remember. I have stage four cancer because she would get mad at me if I wasn't at her back and call or doing things for her, or you know, sitting at the car dealer for hours with her when she had a caregiver to take her or another daughter to take her. Like I'm going through something traumatic right now that stage four, it's an incurable cancer, and she it doesn't register.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:13

It just didn't register. Well, and that speaks so powerfully to her character, yeah. Like that's one example of these mini that you're listing, but the the fact that she uh cared more about herself than what her daughter was going through. It wasn't even she had to make everything about her, it sounds like. And so you having cancer, we're just gonna avoid that topic because this is about me. You need to come to the car dealership, you need to be here, you know, whatever. And that's I can't even imagine as a human, not even as a mother or a daughter.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

Like, I can't even and there were times like you know, it it is such again, it's like the other surreal out-of-body experience feeling when you're told you have stage four cancer and you have a family and a husband, and when you don't know what the future holds for you, you know, so it's like to me, I'm just like I again, I needed to, I needed to set the boundary from that point because if I was going to heal and get through this, like I had immediately again start started searching up support groups and going to therapy and realizing like taking medication wasn't the only thing that was going to keep me alive. Making sure my mental health, my physical health was in a good place was the other half of it. Because the medication is only 50%. I am not going to get through this if I'm in a bad place mentally and stressed and you know, all these other things. Like I really needed time to focus on myself and my healing and my managing my mental health. And she never could get that, you know. So I dealt with that, and then this happened, and I'm like, again, I'm experiencing the same response, the same reaction. It's not about me and what I'm going through. And she's worried about the shame. And I, you know, at first I when she had asked me, like, if I was if I was going to tell people at her house, and of course, because I'm still trying to get information out of her, I was like, uh I'm not gonna say anything. You know, I I told her I wouldn't tell my sister. And then I talked to my therapist because I was like, I can't keep this bottled in. First of all, I'm an oversharer, I share my breast cancer experience on publicly on the internet. Like, you know, it it's therapeutic for me. Whether and people, you know, people find comfort in it and other people judge it. And I do what's best for me. I, you know, if anything, these these journeys have taught me is that, you know, you live for yourself. I don't regret anything I do. So, you know, which is part of the reason why I'm speaking with you too. This is therapeutic for me. And, you know, listening to your podcasts have been therapeutic, finding the community of people have been therapeutic, you know. And when I talk to my therapist about this experience and and how my wants wants me to keep it a secret, and I feel like that's not something I can do for my own health, you know, she was like, Well, her shame is not your burden to carry. And I like, I always write down these little phrases that she gives me because I have to repeat them to myself over and over again as I go through my days, because it's so easy to fall back into your old ways and the guilt and all that kind of stuff. And then I have to like remember the things that she tells me because she's so right. When you see it from an when when someone else has a perspective on it, it it's just, you know, and sometimes I'm like, gosh, I know these things, but I I can't I can't act on them, you know. So she was like, it's not her story to tell anymore or to keep a secret anymore. She was like, it's your story, and you can do with it what you want, whether it makes her and if it makes her take ownership over it, and however it makes her feel is not your problem. You know, it's not, it's not, it's not your fault, you know. And I was like, you are so right. And so when I didn't want to tell my dad's sister, my aunt, about it, because she's older. I didn't want to devastate her, I didn't want her to feel sad for my dad, but I was like, I can't keep it a secret. Like these are my close, the this family, my aunt and and my cousins are the closest family that I have, blood related. I spend the most time with them. We do holidays, Thanksgiving, you know, like I can't not tell her because I can't go to a holiday and be in the same room with my mother. I mean, I would have, but to be honest with you, like she canceled last Thanksgiving because that's just who she is. So if she's not in the mood to go to Thanksgiving, she probably won't go. And and now if she knows, she's not gonna go anyway because the family knows. So it's a win-win for me. Yeah, I'll take it. But yeah, so I'm just like, I have to tell her. And so I told my cousins, I was like, I gotta tell her. And so they met me at her house and I let her know. And she, you know, hugged me and said, You're still mine, you're still mine, you know, like, and she was sad for my dad, you know, her brother, and she was glad that he wasn't here to have to, you know, have the heartache and the heartbreak of everything. And she just was like, you know, I want you to be okay. Like, you know, she just said all the right things. And I wanted her to be okay. And I told her, I was like, I didn't want to tell you at first. I said, but I just don't think it's something I can keep a secret, you know? And so like the next day or two, I got a card from her, like sending me a hug. You know, like she just, she's always been very considerate like that. She sends my kids cards for their birthday. Like, my mother doesn't even do that, you know. Like, she just, I mean, I my mother used to have me buy things for my kids so she so she could just sign a card and say it was from her.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

Yeah. And I stopped doing that years ago, by the way. I was like, you are capable of purchasing your own gifts. Like before she ever needed caregiving and all that. Like, she was quite capable of doing all these things herself. So I stopped doing that a while ago. And in the beginning, I did it because I didn't want my children's feelings to be hurt. But then I was like, it's not about that anymore. You know, yeah. Right. So, you know, if Grammy doesn't bring you a present, that's because that's who Grammy is. And again, I didn't want my kids to think that things were about presents either. Right. But my mother always felt bad about not having something, you know, and I'm like, well, that's on me. Exactly. You know, and my kids, honestly, they truly never would expect something because that's just not who they are. It was always her. Like she needs to come across as a certain way to them. Like, you know, if she could buy their love, she would, you know. So whatever. That is what it is. So, you know, I I feel like the more people I've told, it's been like a weight slowly being lifted off my chest. I think this has been helpful and therapeutic for me because I truly feel like if I can't put it into some form of writing, which is also therapeutic for me, or like some sort of essay that I can put out there for people to read, maybe listening to this podcast and sharing my story to my my friends and family will help them better understand. And and I don't know, whatever. It's a way for me to like put it out there. But, you know, I I I did. I I had to tell, you know, some of the people involved in her life so that they wouldn't view me as being a certain way. You know, she's she's said nasty things about me before, and I wasn't gonna let her get away with that in this situation. You know, I actually called her best friend, like her her childhood best friend who would have been her close friend when I was born because I wanted to know if she knew anything. Yeah, I wasn't getting any answers. So I called her and I was like, you know, you don't have to talk to me about this if you don't want, but I had this discovery, it's been completely life-altering and devastating, and I am not getting answers, and I just want to know if you have any. And I told her what happened, and she was just mind-blown. And she was like, I had absolutely no idea. And one of the first things she said to me after that was, I just want you to be okay, your health is important. Like the close friends of my mother's that I have told, that's their initial response to me. And I'm thinking to myself, like, my own mother can't realize that that's important. And again, all these things have just been validating for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:38

Good.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

Like that I can maintain the no contact and have the boundaries because I'm I'm that I've been validated, you know, over and over again. And and listening to other people's stories. I told you before when we weren't recording, like hearing all the stories from you know, the support groups and on the podcast, like I feel like we all have the same mother. You know, so to me, I'm like, gosh, I didn't realize how many people out there were like this. You know, when I told my two of my childhood, two of my childhood best friends, they were just when I told them the way my mother reacted, because they were blown away too. And then like the next day, they were both texting me, like, the secondary shock is just crazier than the original shock. And I'm like, I know, I'm still processing it all myself. But you know, when I told them my mother's responses to me and the things that she was saying to me, they both were not surprised because they know how she is and how she's been growing, you know, growing up and and my entire adult life. They were like, Well, that's kind of on par for her. Yeah, you know, so anyone who's not close to me, again, like a lot of her friends and and even my family, except for my close, close family that is my birth certificate, father's family, they they don't realize what I've gone through with this woman.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:06

You know, this this illusion of people.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:11

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I'm not going to hide it, I'm not going to keep it a secret. And I don't need I don't need anyone else from her world to say anything to me because I I have the support and the comfort and the validation from those that are very close to me. And I know that that the way that I'm proceeding with things is is okay, you know, because it's what I need to do for myself. So that's just kind of where I'm at now, you know. Still processing it.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:50

Crazy to me that you learned this at the end of March.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:58

Like a month and a couple weeks ago, right? Is that yeah, yeah. And yeah, and I say that it's crazy to me because uh I love that you have sought out family, friends, the community, uh, me to tell your story because I can put myself in your shoes for me was uh 2019. So I and it took me a long time before I was comfortable enough to tell my story to quote unquote strangers, right? This community. And I am so grateful for that. And the fact that you're doing this so quickly tells me that you are gonna do fine. Like you are going to you're in a good place, you're doing the right things by surrounding yourself, telling whoever the hell you want to this story. Yeah. And I've had a lot of trauma training. Yeah, yeah. Exactly, because you haven't done anything wrong, and you're processing it very different than some people do. And I think I think that's it's it's impressive to me, and I envy that because I wish I could have dug in as deep as you are so quickly. And you've learned a lot along the way. And I think, like you said, the unfortunately, the breast cancer diagnosis uh plural probably really changed your mindset and uh what you will and won't put up with. And it's it sets your stage for who you are right now to be able to do incredibly well with this. And yeah, and I don't mean this is easy by any means. It's just you're doing that I'm keeping my sanity. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:03

It's listen, it's it's work all day, every day. Yes, yeah, like there's never a time where I'm not on an emotional roller coaster trying to keep it together, and I'm just trying to use the tools I've learned along the way and lean on the support that I've gained along the way and in in our little breast, not not little, but in the breast cancer community, especially like a lot of the people, the younger people that I that I you know talk to, there's this saying, community is therapy. And I knew once I found this out that I needed another community. Yeah, I love that because I didn't know where to turn, you know, like, and again, I'm scouring the support groups, like what kinds of therapists are people finding, you know, because I my first go-to again was my you know therapist that I discussed, you know, cancer with. So I'm like, I this probably isn't her area, not that she doesn't deal with trauma, but like I wanted to know what kind of therapists are people seeing, what kind of therapies are people using? How are people navigating their relationships with their mothers, their new family, their their immediate family, their children, you know, like their spouses, like I needed guidance, you know, and or just like to figure out, like, okay, I think that's something that I should do, or you know, that doesn't relate to me, or that does resonate with me, you know. But if I hadn't already been going through this cancer craziness, I don't know that I'd be in the same place right now, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:40

Yeah, I mean, yeah, too. You've you've you've been navigating trauma, medical trauma, physical trauma from that, and then now add this new kind of trauma on. And yeah, I I I love the that you had that community for and and I think that's what's so powerful with social media. There's so many negatives about social media, but there's so many positives when it comes to the community, and you being able to find what you were, like to even understand what an NPE oh yeah, like learning on the fly.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:23

I was like, oh wait, what does that mean? Someone had suggested a book. I bought the book, I've been like I'm almost done with it on my Kindle, and I'm just like all these things are so validating to read. And I'm just like, gosh, there's so many me's out there. I had no idea. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:39

Well, and that's why I started this podcast because there are amazing podcasts out there for you know, NPEs, DNA surprises, and I've shared my story on a couple of them, but I found that there were so many of us that had this mother issue on top of it, and I think that adds a different layer to the struggle, and that's why you know in my my trailer I say, you know, the struggles with our mothers, because yeah, there's there's so much that our mothers could do to help us through this process and that apology, those acknowledgments, those validations, and here's the story. And I I did the best I could, and I'm so sorry I didn't think about this, that, and the other thing, whatever it might be. But like your mother, my mom, and so many of our moms are like, no, no, I had no idea, and why it's not that big of a deal. And you had a good father, you've had in my case, I put many good stepfathers in front of you, you know, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:47

And so I think the trauma on top of the trauma is is is real, like well, because it's also it's almost like a a feeling of rejection by this person who gave you life and calls themselves your mother, yet they really could care less about your feelings.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:10

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:11

Yeah, you know, and it's like being a mom myself has really opened my eyes to being like, wow, that was awful. You know, like I would never do that to my kids because there's been so many other things, but like it's just in and and I'm 46, you know, like I'm still having revelations of like, God, you know, and and so I truly have taken motherhood even since my kids were born, and I've treated it as though I'm going to raise them the way I would have wanted to be raised by a mother. I'm going to do anything and everything for my children. They are my priority, and there's no question about it, which is why it's so baffling to me that my own mother wouldn't have felt that way. Because I also have friends who have mothers that have raised them like, I feel like I'm raising my children. Who, you know, I have had co-workers who are mothers who treat their children that way, and it had opened my eyes like, wow, my mom would never do that for me, you know. And I'm just like, it's just, it's really just baffling. Like, I could never be that way with my children. I love my children with everything I have, my entire being. I would just do anything, like, no question.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:45

But and yeah, the theme is it's it wasn't about us.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:50

Right, exactly. Yeah, a hundred percent. And and it's taken me, I think I've realized this over the years, but it's also taken me 46 years to be like, I'm stopping it here. Yeah, good for you, you know, with this discovery, unfortunately. But again, if it gives me new family and new people who want to be involved in my life, and you know, I'm grateful for that. I mean, good things come out of bad situations, you know. So hopefully that will be my story to tell moving forward. And again, it's it's going to be what it's going to be.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:31

But yeah, definitely. Well, and and along that same line, my my question for you is what advice would you give others who are struggling with their mothers through a DNA surprise like ours?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:50

Um gosh. I guess it would be you really don't have anything to lose. You know, like you don't have to protect her anymore. It's about you now. And you have to do what's good for you. It's okay to set the boundaries, it's okay to go no contact. For some people, maybe it's okay to forgive if that's where they want to take it. But you know, you can't live your life for someone else because you have to do what's best for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:33

I love that. Yeah. Put ourselves first for once. 100%.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:43

So my next question, you've kind of touched on as far as your mother, but is what is next for you as far as your mother, the relationship with your family of origin and your newfound family.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:59

Um, so you know, when it comes to my mother, I know for me in this moment there's still a strong sense of anger and betrayal there. And I'm really okay with the no contact and the boundaries because I've done this over and over again throughout the years. And I think this probably is the final time. So yeah, that's just gonna be kind of like I said, you know, I will I will talk to her caregivers, make sure whatever needs to be taken care of in her life is taken care of. But as far as us having any sort of bond or relationship from here on out, I don't really see that happening. You know, my new family, I I don't want to put expectations out there. I I love meeting new people. And you know, I can, you know, my kids have brought so many wonderful moms into my life over the years, and I could meet, you know, one of their friends' moms tomorrow, and they can turn into my best friend a year later. Like I I'm okay with all of that. And and I could, you know, meet someone who who we just don't click. And after a while, when our kids aren't friends anymore, the relationship fizzles out, you know. So, you know, again, and I don't have very close relationships with a lot of my family on my mother's side. So I I have learned not to really have high expectations or expectations at all. I'm just going to take what people are willing to give. And I have learned that I have to be okay with the fact that people might not want to have a relationship with me. So I kind of feel like I'm in this holding pattern because it is weird. Like, I don't know. Do I call my sisters and check up on them daily, weekly? What do they do with each other? You know, I want to text and be like, hey, I got my scan results back and they're they're they're good, but we just met a couple of weeks ago. Do you, you know, like I don't know how much they want to be involved or not? And I don't know what to expect. So I'm kind of just going to take it as it goes and almost maybe follow their lead. And maybe we need to continue to have conversations about it because maybe they don't know what what I want exactly either. And you know, one of my half sisters did say to me, I will be in your life as much or as little as you want me to be. And I appreciated that, I really did. But I still feel like, what do I do?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:50

You know, and I think you said it earlier that you were raised with now as a half-sister, and you guys didn't have a good relationship, so you don't know what a normal other than what you see with your daughters, what that relationship looks like. And so not knowing their history, which I think we all learn when we meet our new families, is we have no idea what the dynamic was before us. Um and the other thing I say repeatedly is they're half related to you, like you share blood, but they're strangers. And as adults, I think it's really hard to make new friends because we have a life, like we have family and and obligations and children, and we're all busy. And so trying to like, and I love that your your new half sister said as much or as little as you want. So it sounds like that door is open, and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:46

So I but I don't want to be pushy, you know, like it's like being in a new relationship. I don't want to be pushy, I don't want to be overbearing, you know. Yeah, and I just I don't know how to approach it. And I feel like, yes, it would be painful if my half siblings, because people have grown, you know, people do have half siblings, even as NPEs, that they've established and built such wonderful relationships with and have become very close with. And there's also the other side of the spectrum. So because this is so new, I'm willing to take whatever they throw at me if they want me to come over or if they want me to visit or if they want to come visit me, like, yeah, let's do it. You know, I would never like close the door on that. I just don't know if I would be like, oh, can I come out and see you?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:36

You know, like I just invite yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:38

I just want to take it moment by moment, I guess. I don't really know how they're feeling. I'm sure it's taking time for them to process these things because you know, it's it's it's like hard for from their childhood too, you know. I mean, like this is kind of devastating, like to hear that your father fathered a child outside of your mother, you know. I'm I'm sure it's you know, it carries some shame and embarrassment there for them too. I guess I don't really know. You know, I'm glad all of our parents are not here to witness all of this, but and maybe that would make it easier for us to have a relationship because there might not be any shame or embarrassment associated with it. And if there is, I guess it's sad, but if that's how someone's processing it, that's how they're processing it. So I can't change their mind on those things. I just know that for me, you know, I would love to keep communication and see how far it goes. I'm not I have I that door is not closed for me. So good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:48

And it's so fresh. It's so fresh that it really is.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:51

So yeah. Put it all out there.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:56

Yes, you did. I love, I love it. You've given me a lot of of wonderful. quotes that I I I'm going to to use. I mean, I think there's a lot of great advice that you've given along the way, especially as early on. Now we'll have to do a call in a year, let's say. Let's see how things are going. Because I think a lot will change for you in the next few months for sure. In a for sure in a year.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:22

I definitely think in a year from now, who knows where things will be.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:25

So if anyone would like to connect with you based on your story or how they relate to your story, how can they best reach out to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:37

I'm open to anything, you know, texting. I'm on social media with my cancer journey publicly. So following me on Facebook or Instagram, sending me a personal email. I'm fine with all of that.

unknown 1:28:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:51

All right. I'll get your your information and I'll I can have everybody either reach out to me or I can put it in the show notes, whichever you prefer. Great. All right. Well I want to thank you so much, Jess, for sharing your story. It was a pleasure talking to you. And I'm excited to hear how things are going for you and you really opened my eyes to we actually talked about it before we started recording, but the fact that you are caring for your mother but you're able to do it at an order's length. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that you know because I I think a lot of people think it's all or nothing and even as I said, you know, I I love my mother and when I lose her it's going to be really hard. But I also have to protect myself and I will not be a caregiver to her. Right. But being able to take make sure she's taken care of i is is a totally different thing. You're still doing right the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:53

But it is very hard to care for someone who doesn't care about you.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:01

Yeah oh for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:02

So having a third party care for her and just having to make sure that whatever they need to to take care of her is handled, it's easier for me. It allows her to sleep well at night I'm sure yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:18

All right well thank you so much and and I appreciate it. If you would like to share your story please email me at motherslies and dna surprises at gmail.com. You can share anonymously if you prefer. I would also love to hear from you with any questions, comments or show ideas. Also subscribe leave a review or follow the podcast Facebook page at Mothers Lies and DNA surprises podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:48

Thank you for being here with us where we are not alone in our struggles with our mothers don't be quiet you just don't want to accept the truth the truth that you've been lying to me all along you gave me just a soft