Nichell's Story

Hello, I’m Stacy, the host of Mothers, Lies and DNA Surprises Podcast. Thank you for being here.  

Before I begin I would like to share a content warning, this episode includes discussions about childhood abuse, sexual abuse and sexual assault which could be disturbing for some audiences.  

Nichell shares her story today, both the struggles as well as the positives that came from her discovery!

Nichell grew up with such a big question mark, after her DNA journey she has her answers, with no regrets! 

Nichell said something that really was profound and I’ve never heard it said this way: For years she thought she was searching for her father, what she was really looking for was approval, acceptance and belonging. She has realized there is no such thing as a perfect family and there is no normal!  DNA was able to give her answers. Healing helped make peace with them!

As you listen to Nichell’s story we wanted to update a big detail to her story, after we recorded she did some additional digging and found out that her biological father was actually in his 40’s, not in his 30’s….this is an important piece of her story I believe.

To connect with Nichell you can email her at nichellspeaks@gmail.com or me at mothersliesanddnasurprises@gmail.com

Music is "Drown in your Lies" by NoxAwake via Pixabay  

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

All right. Well, I want to welcome Nichelle here. She is here telling her story for the first time, and I'm honored to have her. And we had some great conversations before we hit record, so I'm excited to hear her story. I've heard bits and pieces. So welcome, Michelle.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Thank you, Stacy. My pleasure to be here with you.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

So my first question to you is tell me about your DNA surprise, how you found out and what it's been like since learning your truth.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Oh wow. My DNA surprise is I found a half-sister through Ancestry.com. Wow. And the surprise is I that I knew that she could be the one to connect me with my biological father.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

And so you knew right away that it was her father was your father versus your birth certificate father was her father? No, not at all.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Okay. So I signed up with ancestry.com at the insistence of my my youngest daughter. She had completed the test and said, Mom, what you think we are is is not. We're not African-American and Indian. And you should probably do a DNA test. So once I did through ancestry, I received the notification that I had a first cousin. Okay. So this was eight, nine years ago. So that first cousin obviously would be the daughter of my biological father's brother. And contacting her would connect me with my father. But after much, I uh she had her name on there on you know on the profile. So I was able to then do Google searches and Facebook searches. I sent her a message because something told me we were we were connected closer than first cousins. And after a few weeks, she reached out and basically did not know her father either. So we agreed to meet one another. My at the time our daughter was going to Stanford, and this cousin lived in the Sacramento area. So we agreed to meet, and that meeting was amazing. She looked similar to me. And I knew nothing about Symptom Organs at that time. That meeting, I said, you know what? Do you trust me enough to send me your raw data file? I'll connect it with my daughter's raw data file and we'll find out, you know, how we're connected. Because everything was telling me at that time that there was a granddaughter to grandmother connection. I didn't understand it. I did not understand the maps. I did not understand what 16,000 or 1647 centimorgans meant. And mesh their raw data, and there was a niece to aunt relationship. And that's when it the light bulb went off. Oh my gosh, this is my half-sister. And we did a lot of research from that point, and were able, she she would come out to the area that I lived in. We did we did a lot of things together at that time. We had a really our connection was pretty intense. I was a coach, I coached folks to train for 5k, 10k, half marathon. And she was a high school or middle school coach. So she was also training people. We both had children, our first sons at age 16, the same month.

unknown 4:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

And uh her and my mother, we found out they knew one another.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

They were school friends, but they never knew both of your mothers. This new half-sister and your mother were friends in high school.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Yes. Wow. Friends throughout school. My mother at a very young age. I don't know if I should you know mention the city that we live in, but she moved from one part of California to another part because there was there were problems. She went to live with her grandmother. And her grandmother lived in a very small city where everyone knew everyone's business. And so I think from age seven or eight, she lived with her grandmother. So my mother had relations, relationship with my half-sister, her mother of childhood. They they were friends. At one point, my mother said that they were best friends. Wow. But now she would tell you they didn't know one another.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Oh boy. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Yeah, it's weird.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

So how far apart were your was this new sister and you born?

SPEAKER_02 5:59

We're five months apart. Five months, okay. Wow. So I'm yeah, I'm June to November, I believe. Okay. And we had the same type of business early on. I had a journal janitorial business by age 17, and she had something similar. Yeah, the the things that we had in common were just amazing.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Did you have a sibling growing up?

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Yes, I have a sister who's four years younger than I am. So I was I was born in 1967, raised in an African-American household. Okay. So I looked nothing like anyone else in the family. But I was calling this African-American man daddy, and there was my mom. And daddy was very, very abusive to my mother and I.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

So I knew something was off just because of how he treated both of us.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

I lost you.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Yeah, his family would make very snide comments to this child and say things to me like I that I was found in a trash can, that I wasn't his child. They were just very mean people. My mother was also very angry and unhappy. She had this man who was very abusive towards her, also. He would beat her. And I witnessed it all. So I knew that that he was not my true dad, but I still called him daddy from age. I think he entered the picture when I was one year old. And the abuse started when I was about two to three years old.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

So you always knew that he was not your biological father, as long as far back as you can remember.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Well, that I suspected. Oh, okay. I didn't know for sure as a child. I he was daddy.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Okay. So you were raised as he was your father. And okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Yeah. But there was, you know, it wasn't normal, whatever, you know, we all have our own picture of what normal is. And I didn't look like any of them. And the comments would come, you know, it was Oreo or half-breed, or you know, family would say things like, Oh, yeah, I remember your daddy, he was Lethal, the landscaper, or you know, comments like that would come towards me. So to a child, maybe, yeah, to a child. Yeah, that child was not being protected. And so there were questions when I was growing up, always questions about is this person really my father?

unknown 9:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

And then he how he treated me because of because of the abuse. Like he would he would take my sister into a room and then come out and say, I'm gonna do the same thing to your sister or you that I did to your sister, and then he would take me in the room and abuse me. So, and then I'd come out and ask my sister, you know, what what happened, what took place, and she said, Oh, he gave me candy. Like, okay. But yeah, I was told very, very young to not share things with anyone, to not speak to anyone. So I was just a very quiet, a quiet child.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

And when you say abused, was it mentally, physically, sexually, all of the above? Oh, sexually, all of the above.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Yeah. Sorry. I'm sorry. Thank you for being sorry, but I am all right.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah, and then and then just imagine these two little girls having this conversation is yep, you just gave me candy and I'm gonna do to you. And like the that manipulation alone is just yeah, it was pretty bad.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

I mean, my mom claims that she didn't see it, but there were instances where I was like, she had to have seen it, I would have seen it as another, but she she claims that she didn't.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

So and is your younger sister his biological child? She is his.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

There was always, always, always that preferential treat treatment that she would receive. Always. She would receive gifts at Christmas, and I would not. And my mom was with him until I was about nine years old. So when she was not with him, she would send me to my my grandmother, and I'll call her my grandmother V. I was with my grandmother V, and there was also someone who was very abusive towards me, my uncle. So that that love was felt from grandma V. I think she's the first one who made me feel loved and wanted. But outside of that, I just never felt really wanted because we were moving back and forth. Or I would move. I remember being on a plane, you know, very young age, having to have the the attendant, you know, sit with me as I flew from one part of California to the next part of California. Is it okay to say the cities or no?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, it's up to you. That's up to me. Yeah, yeah. So there was prefer there was preferred treatment for your sister, but he was also abusing her.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

No, he wasn't. Oh, okay. He did not abuse her, he abused me.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

He would take her in, give her, treat her well, because you would have a conversation or whatever, and then he would, yeah, it was to manipulate me.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Yeah, yep. But okay, once I found out 17 was a really big age for me, so and and I'll go backwards a little bit. So an argument took place between my mother and I when I was about 12 years old. I had gone to sex ed and I had questions for the sex ed counselor, and she she answered them, and then after answering them, she answered within the class, she said, you know, there are a couple students I need to stay in class afterwards, and that was the day I shared what had been happening to me. So this counselor then forced me to disclose this to my mother. The statute of limitation, I think, had passed at that time, but I still needed to let my mother know what was going on. So I came out when I was about 12 years old to my mom, and she was very, very physically abusive towards me. She had gotten upset about something separate, and at that moment, for the first time, I spoke out and said, I hate you. And her response to this 12-year-old child was, Well, you hate me. I hate you ever since you let daddy F you. And I uh was shocked, of course, but it gave me the opening to then ask her who my father was, and she wrote down a name, and the very next day I after school, I went to the phone booth and dialed 411 and started a conversation with the 411 operator at that time to have her help me find this this person, and the name was it's like the name was Smith and she spelled it Smoth or maybe the the name was McCaren and she spelled it McLaren. So I called the 411 operator in that city, they could not find this name. So imagine being a little girl of 12 trying to find out who my dad was. Years later, I learned that the name was misspelled, and yeah, I'd always been on the search for for this family. So by age 16, I was emancipated and married the man because he was gonna give me that normal that I was searching for. Now throughout that 13-year relationship, I realized there's no normal, everyone has their their problems. So I was I was pregnant and and married, and I remember my mother handed me a set of dishes on the day that I said yes, and she handed me these dishes and she said, good luck. And that was the end of her needing to be responsible for me. But you know, in fact, she really wasn't because I I started working really young at age 10 at my grandmother's business, and yeah, I earned $335 an hour, $25 every two weeks at 10 years old, and I would purchase my own clothing, my own food for lunches and things like that. So there was a there was a definite disconnect. I always felt like she was mad at me for something, and and now I could see, you know, she was 16 at the time. She was mad at me for ruining her life, probably.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Right. But as we know, that's not your fault. Oh, absolutely not. Yeah. So I'm gonna I'm gonna back up just a tab because I sure I would like some clarifying questions asked here. And if it's too much, please tell me. So early on, you made the comment that you you're technically your stepfather was sexually abusing you and your mother didn't know. Yes, quote unquote, didn't know, right? And as you said, as a mother, she had to have known, but she claimed she didn't know. But yet, when you were 12 and you had to tell her the truth, because as your teacher is a mandated, you know, they they have to, which is crazy that the statue of limitation as a 12-year-old still wasn't punishable, anyway. And then she made that comment to you, which literally hit me hard, that she said that she has hated you since the day that you let him f you, which means she admitted to knowing he was doing this to you.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

I had come out by that by that time.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

So her hating you was from the time you told her that he was abusing you versus knowing.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

That's a really great observation, and I have these memories written for me. I I kept a diary. Good for you from an early age, yeah. So I I you know it's written there what she said, and I spelled it out, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yes, of course, that's just the F-word.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yeah, that's a great observation.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Now that I'm thinking about it, yeah, because you know what I'm saying, because she's saying from the time you let him abuse you, and so is that back when it was happening and yet she did nothing, or that implies that she knew when it happened and she hated you from that time forward.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yeah, it does. I I came out to a cousin, and recently that cousin had a conversation with my my mother because my mother has been deny, deny, deny her entire life, deny. And this cousin was able to reach her and you know, said, How could you not have known that this was happening? I was very quiet, I was a quiet child. Matter of fact, I went to a school for back then, forgive me for the deaf and dumb. That's what it was, that was what was on the building. But now it would be, you know, children with disabilities. I didn't speak, I learned sign language. And that was because I was threatened, he threatened to kill my mother if I told him. He threatened to hurt me. But yet, and still, yeah, she should have known. I would know, I would have known. Absolutely, I would have known by the way that my child was acting that something wasn't quite right.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Classic signs, yeah, not talking, like it's it's all textbook, and but her, and we know that she's not the only one, but the ability to not protect your children.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

I she had her own things that she was going to. I know she was a woman, she was a black woman in 1967, popping out this light-skinned, curly-haired, beautiful baby during the you know, civil unrest. It could not have been easy. No, and that's what gives me the that's what gives me, I have been able to forgive her. We we're not close. We'll never be what she wanted the relationship to be. She doesn't control me. And but I'm able to, I'm able to look at it that way.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

And then she met a monster, the first monster that came along who offered her some sort of stability, yeah, and the same thing you did at six the first person who could take you away from this horrible household you did. She did the same, and there's a lot of empathy and compassion for that 16 year old, absolutely for sure, right? It's just the choices we make going forward.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

She wasn't 16 forever, and yeah, she should have seen some of the things, certainly. Yeah. But I was able to at 17. Tell that person that he something had happened. We went up to he would have custody of my sister, Daddy, during the summer. And so by 17, I now had two children. And for some reason, I went with my mother to his place to pick up my sister, believing that we would just go pick her up and enjoy San Francisco and Sightsee, and then come back down to where we lived in Southern California. And we ended up staying at his home. And I'm on the floor with my two children with the TV on, holding on to them tightly. And he comes down and he propositions me at 17. Of course, I told him where to go and how to how to go there. You've never been my daddy. A daddy doesn't do that to their child. So 17 was a big year. That was also the year that I located the family who accepted me. So my NPE story actually includes two families. The man that I was told was my father had passed away. And I found out from a family cousin or an uncle that your daddy had passed away. And so I went back to the phone booth. You know, we don't have those anymore. That's why I giggle. And called 411, gave them the corrected name, and they were able to connect me with my grandmother B. And I met her at 17 and they embraced me. They looked just like me. Matter of fact, I were where I lived, one of my aunts lived. And I would shop at Sally's Beauty Supply, I believe it was. And I remember going in once and they said, Oh, we have your shampoo and conditioner. I said, I didn't order a shampoo and conditioner from you. Yeah, you worked down the way to B of A or one of those banks. And so I walked down there, and sure enough, it was my my new aunt.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

And we looked so much alike. And they embraced me. I visited my grandmother, and she told me all the stories about my father, Glenn. And you know, he had he had passed away in a horrible accident by the time I found them. And then I mentioned who my mother was. And she said, Oh no, Glenn's not your father. So and so is your father. And so I said, No, my mother says, my mother said that Glenn is my father. So Glenn is my father, because I believe my mother. Of course. Um so we we had a great visit, and I I uh come back home and I receive a phone call from a man, so-and-so, and he tells me that he's my father. And you know, for the first time I felt like I found where I belong. All these people looked like me, these are my people. They're they were Puerto Rican and Mexican. My grandmother B was from Mexico City, so that would explain why I was lighter complexed. Yeah. And despite believing that this man was my father, they still accepted me. So he calls me and he tells me that he's my dad. And I call my mother after hanging up with him. And I said, Mom, this man's calling me saying that he's my father. No, he's not. Stay away from him. Don't ever talk to him again. So even though I'm married and on my own, I'm still believing her. I'm believing every word that she says. Okay, if she says he's not my dad, he's not my dad. So, grandma B, he's not my dad.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Well, how did the second man get your number and know to call you? Did grandma B or the new aunt reach out to him?

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Yes, Grandma B gave him my number.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

And how would she know that he would be your father?

SPEAKER_02 27:20

Because they were because of this little city that they live in.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Where everyone knows everything. I really believe that there was something diabolical happening with girls in that area because there are so many who had you know children of the same age of myself and my sister, my half-sister.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

So there was something. There was a bit, there's a big secret because my mother and my sister's mother were not gonna tell anyone what would you know about us or about who the father was. So I I had this new family, and she accepted me, like I said, regardless of what her belief may have been. I found out years later from one of the aunts that yeah, he'd come over and have coffee with her, and they were friends. This person who called me, my mom felt that it was you know just a setup. It was a setup. And and my one aunt said, Oh, you can't possibly be his. He's he's ugly. You know, you look like me. You look like us, you're beautiful. Okay, all right. So from 17 until until four in my 40s, once the my my daughter came back with the ancestry results, I asked my aunt, my Thea, if she would take uh the paternity test with me. And she agreed, and then that's who I and that's when I realized, oh, we're not related. And it was devastating. And I cried and I cried, and my husband wanted me to give up on the search for family, but you know, I I had to I had to continue with this. And then when I look back now, I realized that one of the times I visited my grandmother B, she introduced me to this man and I shook his hand and went about my business, whatever, whatever was going on during that visit.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

So ultimately DNA changed everything.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

I was able to my sister and I, we would go to we when she would visit me. So we when we met one another, we totally embraced it all. We were gonna figure out this mystery together, and she would come to visit me, and then we'd go to the city where we were both conceived, and we went through the you know, whole records, records system with the court system. And I remember going through microfish to see if there was you know stories of of this of our story, I guess, or something happening in those years in 67, 68. How we were able to finally put the pieces together is we had an we had a second cousin whose father was able to connect me with a name. You're gonna love this. This is actually kind of amazing. So his last name started with the Z, not common at all. And that name, we were by having that name, we were able to go to the records. We found out he passed away. So in 2001, he passed away. And the he that I'm referencing is the man who called me and said that he was my father.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

The the man who your mom said he's not your father, don't talk to him, he's a bad guy, ended up being your biologic father, whose hand you shook one time at grandma B's house. Yeah. How how how did that make you feel?

SPEAKER_02 31:36

I was angry, yeah. How dare she? So from 17 until 2001, so I was 17 in 1984, 85. I could have gotten to know him and I could have made my own choice. I could have made my own decision, whether it was to continue this relationship with this man or to kick him to the curb. I could have made a choice, but I wasn't given that because I believed my mother.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

And I know she in her mind was trying to protect me, but I can't help but think that she was also trying to keep whatever her secret was. Because I have vivid memories of things that, you know, should not drugs and things, things that should not have been around a kid. There there were things that happened that she did not want to relive or get out, or I don't know. I don't, I don't completely understand it. But after listening to your podcast and others, you know, it's a common thing where moms just don't want to let it be known that they're not perfect.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Right. And I sighed and I closed my eyes when you said that is because and I say this with empathy for our mothers because we don't know what it was like for them, but as a NPE myself and also as a mother, that at no point did she put you first in you deserving to know the truth, you her shame, guilt, whatever it is, was more important than your truth. You know, you knowing where you came from, who you came from, and he was right there, he was right there, and calls you to tell you I am your father, yes, and and it could have been wrong, also. Like, I mean, he obviously had sexual relations with her, but we don't know how many other people she did at the same time, so he could have been wrong also. Obviously, you believed he wasn't because your mom told you so, and yeah, we believe our mothers until we don't. We do.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Um, she never romanticized the whole thing with Glenn either. She it was we were in an abandoned building and it happened. Okay, it happened, it but it had to happen because I needed to be here, otherwise I wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

But through this whole process of finding my biological father, and through ancestry, you're gonna get a kick out of this. I have a client, so I'm a tax consultant, and I have a client, and I've been doing her taxes for two decades, and and she's now my she has that same name with the Z at the end. No, and she's my cousin, your first cousin. She's actually third, fourth, something like that. But still, but yeah, I connect it with her brother. So, I mean, there it's a it's a it's an interesting story. I also found another half-sister. She's um she's not as welcoming as as my sister B. Her questions have been, how do I explain you to my kids? How do I explain this to my kids? And her her children are Caucasian, so and and she also said, I can't believe it's my father. My father told me to never go out with black men.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

So she this new half-sister, not sis, not sister B, but the newest one, she was raised by your biological father. Okay, okay. So she and so I met I met her. Your biological father is Caucasian, and your your mother was my mother's black, African-American, fully full black, okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

And my biological father is Mexican, he's from Jalisco, Mexico. Okay, yes, so he would come across and work the farms, work the crops. And he he raised, and today I looked up, I don't know why, I think because I was preparing for our talk. I went on to ancestry and I realized that he has a son who lives in my city. So I have to figure out if that's something that I want to look into. Oh, definitely became an investigator through this whole DNA. I've uh my investigative skills are pretty on point.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Yeah, so many of us do. We make phone calls and send letters like we never imagined we'd be capable of doing. Yeah. Seeking out. So this newest half-sister that was raised by your biological father doesn't believe it because her father, your father, said he would never or forbid her from dating a black gentleman. How did that make you feel? Knowing that he took that on. There's so many questions because then yet he reached out to you believing and knowing that he was your father, and he knew that you were half black. You know, doesn't jive, it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

The man, there's something something had to be wrong with the man because there's a reason that I never connected, you know, with him. I I do believe in the higher source, God probably was protecting me. But the reason I say this is my mom was 15 years old when she was pregnant with me. He was in his 30s, he was well in into his 30s, and not only did he impregnate my mother, but you know, my sister's mother, who was 16 at the time. They both are African-American girls, and he was was he married at the time? No, so during the gap, there was a there was a two-year gap where he was not married. So I was born in 67. My sister B was born also that same year. My half-sister M, 69, so she's two years younger. So he must have gotten married around that time. And I contacted her mother. She was able to share a lot with me about him, and he may not have been the best person. My sister B and I went to the spot where he passed away, and we were able to obtain his death certificate, and he you know had had like liver issues, and he was a drinker, so he wasn't he wasn't meant to be in our lives, or maybe maybe the guilt of what he'd done may have killed him. Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 39:56

So, did his wife, when you connected with her, did she know about you or your sister B? So she he hadn't shared with her.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

No, but she knew my grandmother B from the small city, small town east of San Diego.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Yeah, there was a lot of uh 30-something year old man having sexual relations with inappropriate sexual relations with 15, 16-year-old girls in the 60s, in the 60s, where we didn't talk about that, right? Of course you didn't talk about it. Did you and I'm jumping all over the place because uh the questions are just going? I'm sorry, I'll I'll take all of your questions. Okay, so when your mom made that comment about don't talk, he's not your dad, don't talk to him, he's he's a bad guy. Did you ever find out why she said that?

SPEAKER_02 41:09

No, it's the weirdest thing. She she won't talk to me about this, but she gives little hints to my younger sister. Okay, we'll call her Jan. Yeah, she gives hints to Jan, and then Jan said to me, those two girls knew that they were pregnant by the same guy. So I don't know if she's heard something. Because I'm still I'm here, I'm trying to still be this trusting person, even with the when the hard knocks keep knocking. I you know, I still try to stay positive and and I I want to believe in people. So I don't know if that's just a part of her life that she doesn't want to be truthful about, you know, what I don't know what went down. I did do some research, and this may be going off topic, but it's another twist in this story, if you're interested in hearing it. Yes, okay. So my mother, when I was young, had said that at eight, at year, at year, at I'm sorry, at age eight, she was walking home, and these men in a truck abducted her, Navan, I'm sorry, abducted her. She says that she then somehow got away and she ran to her best friend's house. Best friend's father opens the door, lets her in, and this best friend's father abused her, and then she told me that she had to go to court, she had to point him out, and that scarred her. And I I understand that the first traumatic thing that happens to a person in their life has the ability of changing their whole way of thinking, their brain changes it. And I I didn't believe it until my sister B and I went and did this research to find my our our biological father to figure out our ancestry. Since we're at the courthouse, why don't I do a name search for this man or this incident? And it came up. My mother was telling me the truth. She was at age eight abused by this man for, and it says lewd and the civil I can't pronounce the word, but lewd behavior, and he ended up going to a Hospital and jail, and I think he ultimately had to stay away from anyone. But the kicker here is he's the grandfather of my sister.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

So the best friend's house that she took or ran to for safety, who was the one who was pregnant at the same time as her by this man.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Convoluted is. And so I had to tell this, share this with my newfound sister.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

And how did that go?

SPEAKER_02 45:03

She wanted the proof. I sent her the proof. We are amazing. We speak several times a month. We decided early on in this DNA journey that regardless of what we found out, we're not responsible for that. We can't own it, but we needed these things to happen to create the two of us.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

So we're we're we create wonderful new memories. We have done uh you know half marathons together, we've traveled to Canada together, we've gone to Mexico together, we've recreated all the memories that we've missed out all of these years. So she accepted it. She says that it kind of makes sense because her grandfather and her grandmother did not live together, and it would make sense that if he's supposed to stay away from kids, but the the timing and how all this was found out is is what is you know amazing to me.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

And as you know, as far as sexual abuse goes, there's a wide belief that uh someone doesn't do it just once. And so my immediate thought was was she abused, meaning your your new half-sister by her grandfather, or her mother also by her father. And and then it it also highlights what we've said since the beginning that we have no idea what it was like for your mother, for your sister B's mother at in 1967, but also what they had gone through before, during, and after. And like you said, it shapes people when they have traumatic events happen. And you know, you can, I mean, my god, the the empathy I feel for your mother at eight years old having to go through that and not only go through that, but then have to go to court for that, which is something that's needed, but that's trauma in and of itself, having to point out this abuser in a court system, and and then uh you know, the curiosity as far as your biological father being in his 30s and your mother 15, was it consensual? Which I say that loosely, or did he force himself on these young girls?

SPEAKER_02 48:06

I remember her saying he gave me five dollars. Oh I remember her saying that she had to walk to get to the store, she had to walk by his place. So I would like to assume that it wasn't consensual, but I there's definitely some confusion, it's definitely again convoluted very, and you can see why I'm writing a book.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

I I can, and I think you know, being able to share some really tough things, I think helps heal you. And as we know, there's a generational trauma that that is is a real thing, and you being able to learn, grow, share, I think helps to end that. I would like to think that you're doing the work that your mother wasn't able or willing to do.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Well, we have podcasts now, we have support groups and communities dedicated to helping with the abuses and I mean DNA also. Where yeah, we definitely we're definitely at a place that they did not have back then. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Yeah, especially in like you said, in small communities, minorities who didn't have as much of a voice as you know, other people. So I I asked about your mom if you were able to get any more information. You said no, that she doesn't talk about it with you, but she gives little snippets. How let's talk about your relationship with your mother right before the discovery as an adult, as adult during discovery, after discovery, now you know how how is that relationship with her?

SPEAKER_02 50:23

Sure, I'll share with you growing up. My mom was an alcoholic, she had a tough job. It was hard for her being an African-American woman, working for companies that didn't respect her, and you know, they worked her a little harder than they probably would otherwise. So she had a hard time, but she was she was she was mean and angry, and I was the person that she took that out on. Now I just see her as you know, she's a weak, sh the alcohol has done what it what it does what it does. It's it's destroyed her body and her organs, and I feel sorry sometimes because you know she's 73, 74 years old, and just not living, but she she worked for the city, so she has a nice retirement. She's uh she's just not living the the life that that someone I think at that age she should be happily retired, and instead she's got a lot of doctors' appointments and things. She's never whenever I try to talk about this, she'll say things like, Well, I don't want to talk about it. That's old. I've never really sat down with her and have gotten her side of that story. I think because it would cause her to admit that maybe she lied about a few things. Maybe she lied about the first person that she said who was my father, who I believe was my you know father for 30 years. Admitting that she's done anything wrong is not a part of her DNA. Yeah, yeah. But I do I visit I visit for micro visits 20 20 minutes or so, probably my limit. I I talk to her a couple times a week. She gets upset with me when I don't reach out. She knows that I've been, you know, on this. Oh, I have a plan. What she knows what my plan is, and she, you know, she'll say things like, Well, don't write about me. I'm not talking to anyone. I I don't know where that, I don't know where that comes from. I have no idea where it comes from. Because I would think, just from my own experience, the writing about it, the talking about it has been so therapeutical for me.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

And it's like, I would love to say, mom, it would do you so so much good if you would just release all of that that you've been holding on for to for 70 plus years.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

But there was a time she's disowned me. I have the letter. I took, I I think I mentioned to you that I I I kept a diary and I've received a let I have a letter in my in my collection where she disowned me. Yeah. She throws me away and then she pulls me back in. And that's been a constant since I was very.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

Yeah, to you, right? To your sister, she'll my sister, and she's no longer drinking.

SPEAKER_02 54:56

Of course, she's still an alcoholic, my mom, but she's no longer drinking, so I have a little bit more patience for her. When she was drinking, I had nothing to do with her.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

So does she have a relationship with your children, or did she as they were growing up, or how was that dynamic?

SPEAKER_02 55:21

I'm probably guilty of overprotecting my children. I didn't trust her for a couple of reasons. Because my mom my mom has chosen to badmouth me to my kids. To anyone who she tried with my my current husband. I don't know, there's like I said, there's some sort of disorder there. But I never really trusted her with my kids, and she was abusive both verbally and physically towards me. So why would I want my kids around that much?

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:05

Family, when there were family gatherings, yeah. So, you know, I guess I can remember maybe a handful of times that she was there to help out financially, never. She would give my grandson a brand new car. Not my grandson, I'm sorry, my nephew, my sister's son, a brand new car. And I used to say she wouldn't spit on me if I was dying in the desert from thirst. There's yeah, that's sad. Yeah. Has it changed any? Not not really. You know, she'll say that she's not in the position. I've always found family through with you know friends and other relationships.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

Yeah, you're chosen family.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

I love my my my baby sister. I call her still my baby sister, even though she's 50 plus years old. But you know, I was four when she was born, changing her diapers, and I I've always loved her, and we have a good relationship. My mom has tried to pit us against one another. It's nothing that you haven't heard already, and I don't understand why that carries on to the child, why they have that. These mothers have that feeling of um hatred towards the children that they chose to bring into this world.

SPEAKER_01 57:42

Yeah, the innocent, the most innocent ones of the story is they've yeah, and and you're right, I think that's a great way to say it, that there's something wrong because a healthy mother would never put a child in those situations, knowingly put their children in those situations. Any of them that you mentioned, like there's a number of them, and and I ask about your your relationship, your your mother's relationship with your children is because sometimes, and I've heard it from a few people that are mothers, narcissistic, mentally, whatever you want to want to describe them as, some of them are better grandparents than they are parents, that there's you know, probably because they're not raising them, that they get to ship them off. But I in your case, I 100% agree because you you were protecting your your children from God only knows what, right? What what who she surrounded.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

Mostly the mostly the alcohol. Once my mother, so my mother did remarry, nice man, nice Navy veteran, and he has provided for her. And my mother also had a great job at one point with the city before she retired. So she was able to change her life, yeah. But she just was not that grandmother that was going to babysit. Remember, I got a set of dishes and a good luck. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Yeah, yeah. Which at the time, you think about the timing when you left, got married, had children, was something you had in common with her. The same age, she knew what struggle she went through. It would have been a great time to bond over here. I I know what you're going through, let me help. And this is what I wished I would have had, and instead she did the opposite, which was pushing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:55

She she may not have known how to, yeah. I I can say that that with my kids that ended.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

Good.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:05

I have four grandsons, and I love them to pieces, and we have a great relationship with the kids. You know, that's hit and miss. But we definitely stopped that that particular I like to say that I'm on the other side of the statistics. You know, there's a lot of women who have had the things that have happened to me in my life who are struggling on the street. And I had, like I said earlier, maybe a higher source, or I had people, or maybe the fact that I got, you know, I was emancipated, I got out of that situation, and I married this man. He that marriage gave me a second language. He was from Mexico. I was now able to speak Spanish and build a business with that. But all of my the things that happened in life were definitely much better than what could have happened for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:13

A hundred percent, yeah. You you chose better, and I think that's what hurts so much with when it comes to mothers, is they could have chose better, also, they could have done and chose better. So I have a couple of questions that I'm I'm thinking of. Is and you've you've kind of talked a little bit about it, that you know, believing in the higher power, but what did you do to make sure that you did take care of yourself through all of this? The DNA discovery, your healing of not just the DNA, but the abuse, all of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

Writing became my therapy. Sure. So putting it out there and having people read it. A few trusted people, you know, wow, Nichelle, I can't believe you went through this, and I can't believe that you are the person that you are standing in front of me after going through all of that, because it's you know, obviously, there's more, it's more intense than than I can share with you and the time that we have having a higher power, believing in God, having people around me who trusted in me. There was a time where my husband he he wanted me to stop. He's like, just stop. You don't need to know who your father is, you don't need to know all this. You have me, you have our family, and not listening to him at that time was the best thing that I ever did for myself. Finding my sister, she's one of the biggest blessings in my life. So DNA brought that together, yeah, put us together. I believe that writing and and having you know, counseling people that I trust in my circle who I could share this journey with. My my children, I can talk to my kids about it if I you know have the desire. They may find out a few new things if they decide to listen to this, but yeah, all of it. I I'm not I'm not really one who will sit there and and maybe because my mom was. I'm not, I don't sit there in my on my pity pot and just complain about life. If I feel terrible, I'm gonna get out there and I'm gonna run. I'm gonna go put in four miles, I'm gonna sign up for a half marathon so that I have something to train for. There have been many miles that I've put on my my body where I would you know think about these people who entered my life. This man that you know like I didn't get to know as my father, but man, this the aunt that I had, the two aunts who connected me with my true story, they're amazing, they're beautiful people, and they're still in your life, and they're still in my life. They said, Mika, you're still my niece. Mika, you're still part of the family.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:32

Well, and I think that's interesting because when you first mentioned that this aunt of yours looked, well, you even went to the beauty store and they thought you were her, that that similarity. So you're getting what is we would call some of that generic genetic mirroring, oddly, not from a biological connection. However, I'm guessing because you were raised half black, half Caucasian. I was raised black. Oh, you're you're I identify as black. Okay, so I okay, so the man who was in your life or daddy was was black. Black man. Okay, okay. I I apologize, I misunderstood. Because I guess what uh confused me was that you were being called names and picked on, but that was because you had the lighter skin. And so you were raised as a black woman, yes, and now now through DNA discovered that that is not the case. No, that you are ironically, now that I say this, you are half black, half Mexican. Your first husband was Mexican. So you learned the Mexican culture. I through him and Spanish and raise your children that way and ultimately you are how did how did that hit you it's funny I have two stories I know I have two stories that I could hear one is I remember being a little girl walking down the street at my grandmother's because I would live with my grandmother part of the time my mom it was always going back and forth and not necessarily speaking Spanish but it was to me you know mumble blah blah blah blah blah but I thought I was speaking Spanish.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:39

So something called me to that but one other story is my grandmother oh my god did she love going to Agua Caliente to the dog races when I was a kid and we crossed the border had a wonderful day and on the way back they would not let them cross with me so I knew I think I was about five or six years old we had to wait in secondary while my grandmother's husband went to get some sort of identifying information on me because I looked Hispanic. Right looked like I needed to stay at the border like they were kidnapping you and taking the border exactly and when I married my husband one of the stories that I tell my ex-husband been married twice and after we married I did not speak the language I remember sitting in his mother's home and to me it sounded like blah blah blah blah blah negra blah blah negro and so I thought they were I thought they were talking about me yeah and I listened in a little closer and what I found out over the years because I learned the language by listening in closer from 16 onward is they were talking about the black car the black skirt never about the the black person and they would have probably called me Morena if anything which is like lighter complexed or morena suntanned okay yeah but no I I I identify as black and my current husband is Caucasian.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:34

And I was just listening to a podcast recently where that came up again and and but I think again ironically you were exposed to the Hispanic culture from a young age at 16 it was a very young age and and then you to come to find out that you are yeah half Hispanic now your sister B does she speak Spanish and have any of that no okay no but she's going through the dual citizenship piece so she's she's embracing that for whatever her reasons are now her daughter does speak Spanish but be no she but she let me tell you she understands taco burrito cerveza yes that's funny I remember interviewing for a job many years ago and it was in a part of Los Angeles the um ethnic culture I and the the gentleman he says so you you have you you're African American but you know you're lighter complex you speak Spanish and I said see he said what about ebomics and I said shown us so you get a little bit of uh both of that you get all of that with me yeah and and that's who you are and I think that is beautiful and I think that just shows that you are adaptable you've had to be diverse diverse is a good word yeah but you've adapted to everything that's been thrown at you that's very true very much very very true yeah so yeah if you ever if you ever make your way here I can make you Mexican food enchiladas and I can also throw in some seafood gumbo fried chicken collard greens yes yeah we do get to California hopefully once a year my husband found some family that lives outside of LA his dad's dad wasn't in his life and so he was not an MPE but they did not know the family and so my husband has really connected with that that side of the family and so we've we've expanded our family as well for that love but yeah so I might hope might hold you to that I would love that so what advice would you give others who are struggling I mean my my normal question is struggling with their mothers but I want to expand that with you just anyone who's struggling with mothers abuse unknown anything that you would like to touch on well definitely seek the help professionally if that's you know what's needed but as far as the DNA dive in get those answers it was so cleansing such a cleansing experience for me and I know that every story I mean actually I have both I have a good a good story with me and B.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

Uh our our connection is amazing our relationship is beautiful and then you know I have the other side where it's there's a big question mark but it was such a good experience for me to get all of the answers if there's a struggle get get whatever it is you need to get out of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:42

If you need the professional help seek it if you need answers seek that as well I think that's great because I think a lot of people need it's almost like they need permission to dig into and they are tippy toe and don't want to hurt people's feelings or you know whatever it might be they're hesitant because they don't want it to disrupt people's lives as we know as the DNA surprise and as your your your new sister M, who isn't embracing all of it for whatever reason there's always that fear of not being welcome accepted for whatever they have going on or the picture they have of their parent or you know we we hear it all.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:34

Yeah she did ask me she said is something going on are you dying she there she needed her brain needed to believe that there was something that I wanted out of it and the fact was I just wanted to know her I just wanted to know my people because I grew up again with a big question mark. I didn't know who I was so and how long how long has it been that you met her or connected with her I she's in the Bay Area they're they're a prominent family so I could see wanting to protect that right it's been at least eight years and I went on a mission specifically to that area and I stayed up there for a couple of weeks and I finally contacted her called a phone number that I had and contacted her and and we met she took the time to meet me we went to a restaurant and she's just her just some of the things that came out of her mouth were just surprising how to explain me to your kids. Your kids are exposed to way worse absolutely yeah maybe they learned that their grandfather made mistakes or wasn't as perfect as you maybe thought but I I I would have thought and I know we're going back to some old stuff but I would have thought knowing that he had reached out to you and was willing to tell you that I am your father would have convinced her that oh he knew he would have accepted that maybe I need to also accept but you know people have these fantasies in their head or their reputations also like you said if they're prominent family that they they don't want to ruin that well she married into a prominent family but she has a great career she's she's out there on the internet she's has a wonderful career and she's I think she has several accolades in her field and maybe this would just be tarnish that some but I will say that during one of the conversations and I don't know if my my little guy is distracting me now I don't remember what I was going to say it may have been about the children but we had we had a couple of conversations oh she said that she would never do I will never do anything that's going to tell me whether or not you're my sister I'm not doing because she she is in the medical field I'm not doing the test ironically because I did ancestry and then I uploaded it 23andMe and did the Jed match I put myself all the way up as we do I connected with she and one of her sisters had passed but I connected with a niece in Arizona who completely embraced me we went actually to Arizona to meet with her and at the time her mother was living but she had a not a great relationship with her mother so I didn't get to meet my sister be my other sister so there was another sister before she passed but that connection with that cousin her niece confirmed it confirmed it all yeah I I I've said it a few times to a few different people out in the in in my world but you hear it a lot that people are like I'm not I refuse to take the test I don't want to know and I and you have to tell these people it doesn't have to be you it could be your child your grandchild siblings cousins it it you not doing your DNA is not protecting you from anything that you think it is protecting so that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:52

So you got the confirmation that you I guess we could say needed although you didn't need it at that point but is this niece close with your sister so there she would have told her oh hey by the way this lady showed up I met her we've I don't know any of that I don't think that she I don't think she was she was close with her mother at the time there are some there was you know we talk about normalcy what is that let me tell you the stories we could have a whole dateline series on what uh what I found out through this process but no I don't believe that she has a relationship with this aunt at all okay so it wouldn't come up in a I don't believe so but you know I think I did I think I did send her because this niece gave me photos so I have a photo of what my biological father looked like I did send her a photo oh I've reached you know maybe it was my my my way of giving her a punch or a little a jolt a little jab to the the ribs there but I sent a photo look what I got from Rebecca good for you good for you so this question and maybe be a mute point because we've kind of touched on it but what is next for you as far as your mother the relationships with your family of origin your newfound family or any others so I guess really the only unanswered of those because we talked about where you're you're at with your mother and how close you are with your your sister B. And I assume that that it continues to grow and that connection is priceless for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:59

Right it's amazing we're going we're going she and I are going we do a a girls trip every year oh I love that so we see one another probably four four times or more a year we're going to New Orleans we've been to Canada like I said Mexico so that will grow after talking with you I have a little urge in me yeah a little bit of an urge to maybe reach out to this brother who's in my city I even have a little urge to possibly reach out to my sister M, who's in San Francisco only because as we've talked today it has been it's been a lot of years. Her kids are probably now in college and they could handle little DNA truth. Absolutely yeah uh I I'm open to getting to know them you know I do still have the desire to speak to others about everything that I've shared with you. There are people out there who feel lost and you know there's they need what we have to give to help them move through this.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:22

And I'll continue to you know write and hopefully get that picked up and all of the good that comes with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:31

Yeah and and I think you're you said it the the big thing there is you know within the NPE world or DNA surprise world I can't speak highly enough of of having community people around you that just get it. You don't have to explain why you're crying over in my case and your case I'm crying over a dead man that I never met and it's so painful. Like how do you explain that to people? You don't have to within this community and and all the other feelings that come just as within childhood sexual abuse children of alcoholics you name it I think it's so important to have that community as well and I think it just shares with anyone who may be suffering any of those things alone that they know they're not alone and especially now on Facebook there's a community for about everything I can't speak for all communities but hopefully they're all safe and and right kind and you're not getting more traumatized by some of the the bad actions of some people within some of those communities. But no I I I love your openness and your vulnerability to things beyond the DNA surprise because like you said it really tells so much of your story it's so much a part of your your history your how you became who you are right now and I think that's that's commendable. So thank you thank you for that is there anything else you would like to share or want others to know oh well for years I believed that I was searching for my father what I was really looking for was approval acceptance and belonging the biggest surprise wasn't really in discovering who my biological father was it was um realizing that there's no perfect family there's no normal and and DNA gave me all of the answers or gave me a lot of the answers if not all of them they gave me answers and writing has helped me to understand them healing helped me to make peace with them and I hope that my story helps others to feel less alone in their own journey I love that so much I love that all of that because I think what a lot of people don't understand is when we do have our truths it does answer a lot of exactly what she said you were looking for approval acceptance and belonging and I can say that I've learned a lot of that as well through my DNA. Yeah it's powerful this is why you're the writer you have powerful words powerful words all right if anyone would like to connect with you based on your story or how they relate to your story I know we had talked before we started recording that the best way is via email and I'll attach that email to the show notes so they can reach out to you directly or they can reach out to me if the if the people would prefer and I think that I think that's great because again in addition to the DNA surprise they also can relate to a number of other things potentially and I think that's great to be there for them. Well nichelle I want to thank you so much. Thank you thank you it's this was an honor and a pleasure to talk to you and I admire your vulnerability I'm proud of you and I can't wait to hear where things go from here and a follow up after you meet your brother and hint um you keep doing the good work keep doing the good work thank you it means a lot I I I do love the people I get to meet through this journey and and hope that even if one person feels that connection that that they're not alone I that I've done my job. Yeah. Well thank you