C-Section vs Natural Birth: Who Said C-Sections were Easy? Talking to My Friend Veni about her 2 C-Sections (PHYSICAL XFORMATION, EP 17)

**Please note that none of the content in this episode is or should be considered as medical advice. None of us are medical professionals, and you should consult your own medical provider(s) for any medical advice. This is only us sharing our experiences and opinions alone**

My key takeaways: 

• C-sections are NOT easy! omg! hats off to all of the c-section mamas out there
• ANY birth can be traumatic. Vaginal, c-section, fast, slow - there is no objectivity on concluding something is traumatic. We go into depth with my therapist on this in EP 3 don't miss it!
• What is also astounding is that even in the pretty bad experience Veni had with her first c-section, she still had aspects of her birth that she appreciated. She had a good team of doctors and providers around her. They communicated to her well, clearly, and kindly. This cannot be understated and was mentioned in EP 3 again with my therapist.
• Even in a scheduled c-section, there could be surprises because her baby decided to come early. There is no such thing as a 'birth plan' - most of the time, in my humble opinion. 

Thank you Veni for your time and wisdom, and vulnerability in sharing this with the world of moms. 

Lastly:

**I know my opinions on religion and politics in particular are loud, conservative, and can be offensive to some. Please do not assume that my guests share the same opinions as I do. Any episodes with guests should be taken as standalone, solely in the context of their episode only.**

Lastly fr: You are not alone.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the I'm a Mom podcast. This is Jenny Penn. So you all know that after having my first birthing experience, uh I called it the dumpster fire birthing experience in episode two, I believe. Um, it was an all-natural, unmedicated vaginal birth, and I was very traumatized. Everything that I didn't want to happen basically happened, or most of the stuff. And I was so convinced after that experience for some really dumb reason that women who go through C-sections had it way, way, way easier. I was like, I did the hardest thing, this is the totally worst thing you could go through in a birth, and C-sections are way easier. And I thought, oh yeah, like, so if I ever was to have another baby, which I did end up having, I am gonna have an elective C-section. That's what I thought to myself. I was like, you know, what could be so hard about it? You're you're put under medication, anesthesia, and you wake up and pop, there's a baby in your arms, you know, like magic, no pain, no contractions, no pushing. Oh, how foolish I was uh for so many reasons. And the first reason is I did not know that you cannot have an elective c-section. As in, you can't, like in the USA, this is strictly an American situation, um, you can't just say, like, I want a c-section, unless you have like oodles and oodles of money in your back pocket and you're like, yeah, sure, I'll fork out like $100,000 uh for a C-section with a doctor of my choice, blah, blah, blah. Because it has to be medically necessary. So the reality is that a lot of women, a ton of women, especially for their first baby, no one is no normal mom with, you know, without $100,000 in their back pocket, is doing this on purpose. So, you know, they go into the hospital, a series of events happen, and then eventually they are medically, um, it is medically necessary for them to have a c-section. So often what has happened is usually that poor woman has started their contractions, um, they have started pushing, um, things have gone wayward, uh, and then they end up having a c-section. So, in the end, that scenario, which is incredibly common, they are kind of living through two of the worst worlds. So, not only have you felt the pangs and the pains of birthing labor in the natural way, and you've tried to have the baby vaginally, but then you're wheeled away into an emergency room in the operation room, and then you have to have this massive, massive major surgery. So I will stop talking about it because I'm I have never had a C-section. So, this is why I invited my dear dear friend Venny. Um, we went to grad school together, uh and she is now a mom of three. I want to say a personal congratulations to Venny. She is now not only the mother of Sarah and um Ilana, but also Naomi. Baby Naomi was born uh this past week. She has had three c-sections. She is a power mama. I'm so proud of her. Um she inspires me because she was one of the first moms in our group of our cohort, well, the kind of group that I hang out with the most, who um took the step of becoming a full-time stairhood mom. And, you know, she said a lot of wise things to me, a lot of things, words of encouragement and guidance. So I really appreciate you for that, Vinny. Thank you so much. For either Sarah or Lana's birth. How did how did that go?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

So I I will start with Sarah first, because um with Sarah, she was actually past her due date by like uh five days. So around like 40 weeks and three days, I went to the doctor and the doctor basically said, okay, we need to do induction if she's not here. Um so I was like, okay, that's not what I want. I want like a you know, normal uh spontaneous delivery, but okay. Um but then on September 20th, I actually had contraction. So even before the induction, I had uh contraction and the doctor basically um told me, okay, go to the hospital and I was scheduled for induction at like 4 p.m. And I went to the hospital at like 11 a.m. And then I'm already like at two centimeters or something like that. So then they were just like, okay, so um I don't need you need to, you know, to have this induction because you're already progressing normally. I don't need to give you pitocin or anything. I but then around like uh 4 p.m. it's kind of like stuck at like uh four centimeters and it's not like progressing at all. So the doctor kind of like we can give you petosin if you want, or we can wait it out. Um, but I'm suggesting it seems like you're progressing really, really slow. So I said, okay, give me the betosin, you know. Um, so it will help me progress uh faster. So then they put on epidural and everything, they give me the betacin and all of that, and then I start to feel like my water broke and all of that, and it still takes me almost like 12 hours to reach 10 centimeters. Um and then finally I read the 10 centimeters and the doctor said, Okay, you can push and um I will let you know where when to push. Because when you have like epidural, you really don't feel the contraction, you know?

SPEAKER_02 6:50

I don't really feel it.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

And um after that, um I push and push for like four hours and nothing happened. So um my previous doctor, which her name is Dr. Sarah, funny enough, um had to go to like the next shift. Um and um I I was with a different um doctor, Dr. Condor Rhodes, and then um he was like, Oh, I don't think you can deliver um normally because your baby heart rate is dropping real quick. So I was like Yeah, it's really scary and it's it's dropping real quick turn this into an emergency C section. So then um I had to have an emergency C-section and it was something that I really, really want to avoid, you know, I really don't want to have C-section because you know we don't have family nearby and we totally unprepared and we know that I will stay at the hospital longer because of the C-section. So um yeah, so we had the C-section and it was really scary because um like you have no control at all on what's going on and then suddenly like the doctor tell you that, you know, I'm gonna slice you open and it was it was really terrifying when I found out I need to section. Um but all of the doctors they were really nice, they were really good listener and um I'm really happy with my team in Ohio. They they really great and was like so they so I can feel all of the things that's going on. Not like the pain. I can feel like the tugging. So, you know, to remove the baby they have to like touch the baby and then I can feel like they're opening my oh my my um stomach. I just don't feel like I the only thing that I don't feel is when they slice me. But like the rest of the thing, uh like the physical movement of it, I can feel everything. I can feel the doctor hand inside me and kind of like, you know, uh because I'm awake and kind of like pulling my muscle and then pull the baby out. So I I kind of feel it when they pull Sarah out, and then Andrew is like um scream like, Oh, it's a girl, because the doctor put it up like that. But the only thing that I was kind of listening from it is like, why there's no crying? Why is there no crying? So Sarah didn't cry when he was born. I'm like, is he breathing? Why I didn't hear any cry, and I was like, Imagine like you lay there and then you don't know if your baby is alive or not, and you can't even like check or stand up or do anything. It was the most terrifying like 30 seconds, it took them 30 seconds to uh finally get her to cry, and I was really traumatic because I like I don't know if she's okay or not. I I literally it's only I I don't think it's more than 30 seconds, but it feels like forever. It's like a lifetime. Yeah. So she has like she she had like um her upgirt score was like two and then after they finally able to um get her to breathe and everything, it was like nine. But yeah, it was it was really scary. Um and and yeah, and at the first time, mom um the the the other feeling that I felt at that time was like I didn't feel anything almost because I was so drug up, like just so many drugs. I didn't feel so I was scared, but then I didn't feel any like emotion at all. And um also after they finished the surgery because it was like an emergency C section, I don't think they have time to kind of like check everything. Um my blood pressure went down like really low. It was like 70 over 40 or something like that. And then I was actually I couldn't open my eyes. I can hear what's going on, but I couldn't open my eyes. And then I said to Andrew, I I don't feel like I I don't feel okay. And then the doctor kept checking my blood pressure, and then it's it went down into like dangerously low, and they were like, We need to reverse the medication, some of the anesthesia and all of that, and so they literally not leaving my side, and because my blood pressure was too low, I couldn't even hold ill um Sarah for like yeah, I think three or four hours because I was so unstable, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Yeah, yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot, it's a really um one uh what so we shared is so much and um I think there's some commonality between you and I in terms of you know there is such a strong sense of helplessness, right? Where you were not planning for this, you were so out of control in what happened in terms of them saying you need an emergency. You were so oh, I'm prepared for that, you didn't expect that, you also didn't want it. And then there you are laying down, and it it is a major surgical procedure. They there are like so many layers of you that they're moving to get down to your uterus and then taking Sarah out, and you know, just it it is truly terrifying to just lay there. And you know, when you said one of the most horrific moments is they said the baby's out and you can't hear anything, you can't even see her. No, and you're feeling so weak. Um is the reason why you felt so weak because just the medication, or did you I don't know like medically, but can you also lose a lot of blood during a C-section? Like, did you lose a lot of blood?

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yes, I also lose a lot of blood during the C-section. And the other thing is that I was already in the hospital for more than 24 hours with the laboring process, with no eating, no drinking, oh my god, all of that.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

So you are like so exhausted, zero nutrition, yeah, yeah. Come like you are depleted.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yeah, and I I I wasn't sleeping because uh even though with epidural I still have the contraction and I can feel feel some of it, and you know, you're in a hospital like laboring, and I I can't really sleep behind.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

So many difficult moments, I think. Right. Right, that's so scary. Um and much everything you didn't want happened.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Um, but you also said that you were happy with your hospital and the provider. Um tell me a little bit more about that. What did they do right, do you think, even though the circumstance was not what you wanted?

SPEAKER_01 14:56

So all of the doctors and all of the nurses, they all are very communicative and very supportive, and they also very informative. So every time they want to do anything, any procedures, they will explain it to me like, hey, I'm gonna take your blood and I'm gonna do it this way, and they really walk me through everything. And even when they told me that, like, oh Sarah, heartbeat is going down r rapidly, and you still have a choice to push if you want to push, but I also have a limit that if you want um the most positive outcome, which is the baby come out alive, then um you know, we might need to have C-section. And during the C-section itself, even though it's a stressful environment, all of them work like really seamlessly. I will add that like the anesthesiologist, the doctor, everyone was just very, very kind and very um, I don't know how t like welcoming almost. Um they very yeah, they very kind, they're very informative, and they asked me, like, oh, are you feeling this? Are you feeling okay? And even during the surgery, the doctor were like um talking to me about like, oh, where do you live? And try to kind of like me a little bit. Yeah, they they are. They all of them are very, very nice.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

That's amazing. And did you feel like before you went to the hospital, your experience with your provider, you were also very happy with the whole process of like going in for your three months, six months, like all those tests and all the ultrasounds?

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yes, they are very all of them uh so the doctor and the hospital are in the same system. So basically I met with all of the doctors that might possibly disinfection are you know, assist me in labor. So I met with all of them and I knew them, so the the whole process um I feel really supported by them. And the other thing is that none of them are dismissive at all. So even though if even when I have like a what I think like a silly question, they will literally explain it to me um properly, like and I ask a lot of questions, especially before the dissection.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Um so if curious because everyone feels pain very differently. And you said you have you got an epidural. So like how can you explain how you felt like that pain when you had your contractions? Because like for me, uh my contractions were all in my uterus, I felt it in the front, and it was very painful. But you know, I also interviewed Sophia and she said all of her pain was in her lower back, and I'm like, that's so interesting. Everyone feels it so differently, and everyone has such a a different pain tolerance.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

But first of all, I know I always want epidural, and yeah, the my pain is the same as Sophia, it's on my lower back, like it's painful on my lower back, and then it's kind of like slipped in from my lower back to the front, if that makes sense. But like the most pain that I felt is on my lower back. Um and I knew I want epidural when the nurse told me it's better for you to do it before you're at four centimeter because or before your water broke. Because when that happened, um it's gonna be harder for m the uh anesthesiologist to kind of uh administer the epidural because you will be in so much pain and it's gonna be harder for us to c to kind of keep you still. So um I knew right away it's like alright, and I get the epidural as soon as possible then. When the epidural a little bit um wearing off, it starts to like you you can definitely feel like a strong um contraction.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

That's I it's so different. It's like I I didn't have an epidural, so it's like I cannot relate. But on a pain scale of zero to ten, like zero being I can't feel anything, I'm having a great day, it's a perfect, you know, situation versus ten being you feel like you're literally being tortured in real life. What at your worst pain point, what did it feel like on that scale?

SPEAKER_02 19:57

So I I feel like maybe I'm at like um the excess, maybe and then I get the epidural.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah. I feel like that's the same.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

So you are like preemptively getting the epidural like I preemptively, yeah. I will get this now so that I will not suffer more. Yeah. Smart. Um and was your birth experience with Sarah. And now having Ilana, you've had the opportunity to do it twice. And I know that the second experience was very different. So you know what did you do differently the second time around and that you were happy with?

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Yeah, so um actually it's just so different because I knew right away that I will have another C-section because I had a C-section with Sarah, and then the doctor said if you want to try vaginal delivery, you might have some success. But apparently I have like a really narrow surface that it's possible to happen, but um like it might not. And then there's another risk that like during pushing my uterus might be uh tearing because I already have like the scar over there. And if that happened then um it's really hard to mitigate. I will have to I will have to have another emergency C section, but the risk of mortality is like much higher when that happens.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah, that that sounds pretty crazy. Like okay, my uterus might burst while I push my baby out. That sounds like I could die, so no thank

SPEAKER_01 22:00

I thought I have a plan this time because my plan was okay, I have a two-section on September um 29, and then um that's it. So I will be prepared, my sister will be here to take care of Sarah. I would be like everything will be fine, and I would even I wouldn't even feel any contraction. That's what I thought, right? Learning from the previous one. And Ilana decided that she will come early on September 28th. So I have like a really bad con contraction on September 28th. Around like um 4 a.m. I woke up and I couldn't I couldn't go back to sleep. And I told Andrew, I think uh the baby wants to come out right now. I uh knew we we have to go to the hospital and I'm already at like five centimeters when I came to the hospital. Oh my gosh. When my doctor was there, Dr. Domingo. He was like, Oh no, who's here? She was like, You have to get to Dr. Manu, not with me, Dr. Manu. You're supposed to be you have to do Dr. Manu tomorrow. Not with me. What are you doing here? You're my favorite patient until right now. What you're doing here? She was like joking with me. I was like, I don't know, my baby wants to come out now. Okay, let me check you, and then she checked me, and then like, oh my god, you're like five centimeter and bulging, and like this is like ready to go, and they check the baby, Ilana. And of course she was reached. So you know, she was like, Alright, I'm I'm gonna prepare the surgery right now, and then she left the room, and I think five minutes after she left the room, my water broke, and it was like silently like it's just broke. Oh my god. Like, and then I I just knew it was like, oh my god, my water broke, my water broke. I'm like, and then after that, the pain, the contraction is just like awful, like really, really awful. It's just like and I didn't have a epidural this time because that's literally like 45 minutes after I arrived at the hospital. That has to be um then the contraction, it was just like really, really strong and really really painful. I know if you give me scale, it will be like nine out of seven. Like it is awful. It's really awful. And then when they try to give me um the anesthesia anesthesiologist tried to basically numb me, I couldn't hold still that they have to like they told Andrew to to like really hold me, and they have like three people holding me so I can stay still. And uh it was just kind of oh my god, why why I'm feeling this? Why am I feeling this? But after I have the medicine in me, um it was like you know, it was all fine. And then I had the surgery and it took me like it took them like maybe two hours or something like that. It's a little bit uh the surgery is a little bit longer because apparently there's a lot of like I develop a lot of scar tissue inside of my um uterus. Not just not just the uterus, because there's like everything in between, yeah. Everything in between my stomach and the uterus, it's just so much scar tissue built up that it's so hard for them to get to the uterus. So they it's longer than the previous one.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Feeling, but yeah, even when you plan it, it's still unplanned. Yeah, yeah, that sounds just about right. And all of it. Yeah. And you know, separately with you that I had birth trauma. And I think you also said, I think I have some of that too. How are you doing mentally in terms of processing how these births went?

SPEAKER_01 26:25

I think I'm I mean, I'm in therapy now to process everything and to help me with the um postpartum um depression and anxiety as well.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Um with Sarah at least I don't feel like I have postpartum depression or anxiety, but with Ilana, it's like my anxiety is just through the roof. And then in terms of the trauma, I've been working with my therap therapist to help me with that. It just makes m it just made me realize that so many things it's just so out of my control. And with the C-section, especially when you give birth. Um I will say it's like the um it's not like it's the easy part, but I definitely will say that it is easier than the recovery. So painful, and then I just feel with Ilana the pain is just way more intense than with Sarah, like way, way more intense. I have to ask for oxy way more often. Um and then I feel I know that like I know in my head that I also have to limit it because I don't want to be dependent on um drugs, you know, to manage the pain. Um yeah. I mean I remember when they removed my catheter set of the C section with Ilana, um, it was the first time I have to go to the bathroom. I feel like there's like thousand knives thubbing my comic like on the you know, on the scar. It's just yeah really, really painful. The burning sensation is just it's just awful. Like the the recovery just took so long and for so long you just feel so so weak, you know. Like yeah, I got exhausted like just getting out of bed to change Ilana diaper or stuff like that. Yeah, and thankfully I know better that I shouldn't try to do it on my own.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

This is such a great education for me, uh, because you know what I said to myself after that birth for my first baby. I was so traumatized by my birth and having no epidural and just the sheer amount of pain that I felt. But honestly, like you know, in in the call that I have with my therapist that's also going on this podcast, it wasn't actually the pain that caused my trauma. It was the feeling of helplessness being out of control and not being seen, not being seen, not being heard. And before I realized that, I was like, man, that pain was insane. And I will never give a vaginal birth again. And I was angry that I couldn't get an epidural, but I was also like, I'm definitely getting a C section next time. Like I I think a lot of people like me have the wrong perception of C-section, thinking that if you have a C-section, everything will be so much easier. And it's just a walk in the park, you just you know, drop off and they take the baby out, and then you're awake and everything's fine. But hearing your story, it is such a very raw and real report of how actual C-sections feel, how they go, and how even if you have a C-section, you can have a very traumatic experience.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Yeah, for sure. Um the I will say with the C-section, the pain afterwards and the feeling of like you so it's a major abdominal surgery. So you have to try to take care of yourself as well as take care of a new baby, and it's a lot. It's a lot. You need to have like a really strong support to get through it. And it's hard as a mom, especially because you want to do everything for your kid, you know? Wow.

unknown 30:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

We keep talking about this theme of there's nothing you can control. Like you plan as much as you can, you prepare as much as you can, especially with your second. But when you look back, is there anything that you wish you could have changed for for either of those? Or when you look back, it's truly like I couldn't have prevented any of those things.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

I I don't know. Sometimes with Sarah, especially, I'm still wondering because I already have like contraction and all of that, and then they were like, Oh yeah, you're you're just having like slow labor. Sometimes I wonder if I don't have the induction with or if I don't have the epidural. Sometimes I'm I'm wondering, would I be able to have like a normal bird, not a you know, not C-section? Sometimes I'm still wondering about that because again with C-section there come like there is a lot more risk uh for next pregnancy, you know?

unknown 32:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

And I know I want to have more than uh one baby. So it's kind of like that's that's the one thing that sometimes I just feel feel uh I just wonder, but all in all, I just I think I'm in a process where I accept what happened and I accept that like I'm accepting that like there is no controlling it, you know? Wow.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Yeah, that's amazing. You know, I think that's so amazing because it's so hard to get to the point of acceptance. Yeah. And and I don't know about you, but for me, I was so angry because of course.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

I was how all of those people treated you so badly. I can't imagine being treated like that. How how depressed you must be during the whole process.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yeah, I was so angry at so many people and I just couldn't let go and I couldn't forgive. And to this day, I still find it hard to forgive, but I you know, I think it's like, you know, over time and with my therapy, of course. I you know, you know, at in the beginning when I was so angry, like I was ready to do. I was ready to like go find an injury lawyer in your busy. But like now it's like, oh no, it's okay, I'm good. I'm okay, I'm okay. It's like, you know, the anger subsides, and then yes, I've come to the uh to the point where I've accepted my own responsibility for how I how I did not take ownership over my pregnancy, and I just kind of didn't do enough due diligence. Um not that you know, you you could do like everything right and everything could also go wrong. Yeah. So it's just like I think it's also an understanding, a mature understanding that at first is so uncontrollable and it's so uh unexpected, unpredictable, and and I think one thing that Sophie said that was uh so simple but also so wise was she was like, listen, uh the ultimate goal is that you're healthy and the baby's healthy. And whatever point whatever happens in between to get to that point in the end, it does matter, but it doesn't matter as long as the mom is healthy and the baby's healthy. And I think you know that really helped me as well by talking to her, um, understand that yeah, that that is really more what matters in the end.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Yeah, yeah. In the end that's what really matters, even after they slice and dice you and you have to recover. It's what matters that you're home with your baby.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

It really is.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Yeah. Um I I was gonna ask, like, how did you know that you needed a therapy for your birthing experience?

SPEAKER_01 35:18

I just knew it when I was at at first, especially um with Ilana. I I knew because my um anxiety is just through the roof. I worry about small things that I knew it's not a big deal. It's like like I'm worried whether she's eating enough or and I know she eats enough when the fact I know for a fact she sleeps enough, she eats enough, she's healthy, we check her up, we she gained weight beautifully and developed them uh it's like eight plus it's like everything is good. But I still have like this dread feeling and this anxiety that just not going away even after I kind of like setting to myself that like hey um you know everything is okay. Usually I can reassure myself that way, but I really couldn't do it. And I think it's also partly because I'm still kind of like mourning the fact that I know it seems silly, mourning the fact that I never experienced um vaginal birth and I will never experience it, you know. And um I know a lot of people will say like you have two beautiful baby, why do you even care about it? I but I don't know, it's just not something that I plan. It's something that's totally out of my control and i it that's part of it, you know, like that is also in the mix where I I just don't feel like just something just not right, you know?

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Yeah, yeah. That's so interesting because it's like you know, a lot of moms on the flip side like you really wanted a vaginal birth.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

And you know that right now I'm still feeling like um burning in my incision six months after birth. And then I feel like like you know, like when you touch an open cable like being electrocuted, but like inside your stomach, but it's it still keeps happening because the nerve basically tried to make a connection, new connection, and then there's a part of your stomach that's like still numb, so you can't really feel like part of your stomach.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

So glad you're sharing this. Um, because I don't think people understand, like, especially women who have not had a c-section. It's like there's a very black and white divide. You either had a c-section or you didn't. Or you know, you either like had a baby or you didn't, or you didn't like I feel like in motherhood and the experience that we go through the experiences that we go through are it's just uh you had it or you did it for and you just cannot relate. And and that's fine. Um, but it's it's just unknown. Like I had no idea that you know your you know, post-d-section is like months and months and months of pain, and maybe for some women it's years.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um that's why I feel like sometimes when you go to motherhood a thorium, sometimes you find like this fiery, if not toxic, debate between moms. It's just because everyone experienced it differently, and it's something that you so um have such a strong emotional connection.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

So we're we're nearing the end of our call. But before I ask you my last question, is there anything that anything else that you wanted to share, like go into detail with? Because I know we've jumped around a lot with like all the different types of questions of like your whole experience with Sarah, then with Alana, um, you know, the birth trauma and PPD, and we've talked about a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah, I mean, um I will just say this because this is what um my sister told me. In a way, giving birth is kind of like wedding. So many people fuss about like with wedding, like right, so many people fuss about like let me perfect uh choose the perfect cake, the perfect press, the perfect setting. And with birth is the same. I want it to be like this way, this way, and that way. But the one thing that's important I wedding is important, but what's more important is the marriage. And giving birth is important to have like uh you know smooth birth and all of that. But what's more important is that you get to be a mother and you have your baby. So just embrace the the thing that you can't control if it really is you cannot control it.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

That's that is so wise. And I completely agree with that. It could have been the answer to my very last question, but the last question I was gonna ask you is you know, what would you say to other moms out there who are listening right now who are very much like you and in your situation? Like what is your word of advice or encouragement that you can give them?

SPEAKER_01 41:20

That's yeah, it's I mean, it has been difficult for me to accept the fact that I have to have c-section. And I would say that's like it might sound silly for people and even for your spouse. Like when I talked to Andrew, he was like, Do you still have hang up about that? Like he's like I I told him about this, like maybe when Sarah was like eight months old or something like that, and he was like, Do you still have hang up about that? He totally he he didn't get it, he didn't he didn't understand. And I was like, Of course I still have hang up about that, and I feel silly. And he was actually he told me like, Well, it's not silly because you're feeling it and you're it's hard for you to process it. I I don't really understand it because you know, right now all I'm thinking about is just like our family and Sarah, whatever it is that you're feeling and whether you think it's silly or whether you think it's like why am I still thinking about it.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

If it's still bothering you, if it's still like keep you up at night after your baby is asleep and you should be asleep, then you have to do something about it. Because, you know, your baby can only thrive if you're also thriving, you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Yeah, that's that is so great. I think like every mom has is a different person, and every mom has a different baby, and every mom has a different birth. Like we all have such unique birth experiences, and I think it's like none of us can judge each other or assume or truly understand, like truly because you're not that person. You're not like what you're saying, it's just so empowering in saying that nothing is a silly question and nothing is silly. And I think people underestimate how vulnerable moms are, like that immediate postpartum stage. Like we are our hormones are going crazy. Our physical body is under like this crazy recovery mode, whether you had a vaginal or a C section, whatever it was. Where is like what you said is super super validating and oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

For help it's really hard as a mom because sometimes you feel like you're a mom now and you have to know you have to be someone that already figured out everything because you have you have a baby and you have to be responsible for that baby well-being. So you have to be good, you have to be steady. And sometimes that mindset can make it really hard for you to just ask for help.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Yeah. Hundred, hundred, hundred seconds. So I think I've squeezed so much wisdom out of you tonight. Oh my gosh. I learned a lot from you. The pain that you went through. So I think we're gonna wrap it up. So all I can say is thank you so much, Fenny, for being so open and vulnerable and so real. You have truly um fully understood the the whole mission of this.