Real Skincare for Tired Moms! Anti-aging Secrets Without Botox from Top Dermatologist Dr Gina Caputo

**The advice and information shared on this episode should not be considered medical advice. Please consult your own medical providers for medical advice**

Top Dermatologist, Dr Gina Caputo DO shares with us TRULY simple, doable skincare routines UNDER 3 STEPS for moms who are trying to get their sparkle back. We talk about skin, anti-aging, hair loss, Tik Tok trends that are outright ridiculous, and how to approach beauty in a healthy way as we age and change. 

We go in depth on this episode and name actual product names. Yes.  Secrets are literally handed out in this podcast! See Dr Gina Caputo's product recommendation list and discount codes are below and these are also the products she actually uses: 

1. Cleanser: La Roche Posay oil cleanser or Dove cleanser/soap

2. Non-retinol/Retinol products for anti-aging: Dermabotanica overnight repair serum (HA), Nimi’s Hyaluronic acid Hydration serum, Altreno (prescription), and Nimi retinol renewal serum. Jenny is currently using Dr Youn's peptide + bakuchiol moisturizer.

Use Dermabotanica CODE: DRGINA30  Nimi CODE: GINA15

3. Sunscreen - tinted: Tizo, La Roche Posay melted milk (chemical), Elta MD, IT cosmetics your skin but better, Eucerin sensitive skin tinted spf
Sunscreen - heavy duty: Solbar shield, Blue Lizard

[OPTIONAL] 

4. Glycolic acid wash by Dermabotanica (intermittently). Use Dermabotanica CODE: DRGINA30

5. Azelaic acid prescription or OTC version by Inkey list

6. Nimi skincare sunshine tallow cream for light barrier repair

7. Probiotic by Seed with CODE: CAPUTO20

Lastly:

**I know my opinions on religion and politics in particular are loud, conservative, and can be offensive to some. Please do not assume that my guests share the same opinions as I do. Any episodes with guests should be taken as standalone, solely in the context of their episode only.**

Lastly fr: You are not alone.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

When you're busy, mom, you need to make things easy. But it doesn't mean because it's easy, it's not good. It doesn't mean if it's not expensive, it's not good. You just have to make sure that you're picking the quality products and you're not following these trends.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

So far in the podcast, we have talked about the amazing amount of physical change that our bodies have gone through. And in the last two episodes, we talked about all the changes from head to toe that have happened in our bodies between me and my friend Sarah. And we talked about all of the slightly embarrassing things like saggy boobs, mommy pouch, shifting teeth, and a plethora of other things. And one of the things that I really wanted to touch on was the whole, you know, losing our brightness of our skin, the huge eye bags, like just, you know, losing the elasticity and starting to really age. Age faster than we really want to as moms. And I don't know about you, but I'm in my mid-30s, and I am very suddenly interested in anti-aging. So while we've talked about and you know laughed about and also kind of cried about the many, many changes that our bodies have gone through and the kind of grief and loss we all kind of experience at some degree of like who we used to be, that hot mom body, sorry, the hot non-mom body, and now what we have now. Um, I actually also want to start resolving some of the problems that we have. And so we have an incredibly special guest, Dr. Gina Caputo, here with us today. She is a highly skilled board-certified dermatologist who has been practicing in the Northeast region for almost 10 years now, and she is not your average dermatologist. I am so blessed to have found her because she is a top doc uh in dermatology in Delaware, and she's been nominated that multiple times. She's also been a top doc woman in medicine, and she is just so hardworking at what she does. She has just killed it. So we are so happy to have Dr. Gina Caputo welcome to the podcast and tell us all the secrets of anti-aging and beauty.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

I am so happy to be here and to debunk and answer all those questions. Um it's quite the journey as women, I feel we have a lot of unique pressures, a lot of unique challenges, and there's a lot of just explosions of products out there that you know it can become overwhelming, and you don't want to waste your money. You want to invest in good things and safe things. And I'm so excited to be able to talk to you about everything and answer any questions as we go through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Talking about rejuvenation then, about our faces and our skin and anti-aging. My first question is In your opinion and your you know 10 years' worth of practice, what do you think are the top three anti-aging things we can do as women in our 30s and 40s that are not injectable? Because I think a lot of people find that, oh man, like I'm scared of Botox, I'm scared of fillers. That's a bit too scary for us. Uh, and we want to do something that's you know a level below that. And what what do you think is like really worth your money, really worth the investment, um, something that any normal person can do?

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Yeah, and that's a great question. And you know, I think people even pursuing Botox and filler and all these uh aggressive um treatments first line, I think that's misinformed. I honestly think the question that you just asked that this should be like the foundation, and I have this conversation day in and day out. You need some foundational things, and then we can always be more aggressive, but if you're not doing these things, you're kind of wasting money. So I think the most important thing, and everyone's gonna laugh, it's sunscreen. So whether you choose chemical or you use the titanium zinc dioxide, it's all dependent on what your underlying skin conditions are. I think my sensitive skin folks should stink to stick to like the zinc oxide ones, the mineral-based. Um, I use both because I don't have really a problem, but I prefer the zinc titanium. It's a little more natural, it's inert, and I can see where it's at, but I don't have uh too many qualms with either. But if you're not protecting your skin, you're kind of caught behind the eight ball in a sense. So sun protection is key. I also like sun protective shirts, big hats. I'm not telling you to be a vampire. I am a vampire as best as I can, but the sun really does a lot of damage for photo aging. So I think that's should be foundational. After that, I think you know, we have the most scientific data on using a retinoid. So, you know, a lot of people can't use tretinoin, um, which is the strongest formulation, myself included. So I found molecules that uh are a little when we look at the way scientifically retinoids are, there's a continuum. You don't need the prescription strength tretinoin to reap the anti-aging benefits. So I prefer myself to stick to the retinols. I think I found a great one that I really like. Um, and we can get into brands um if you want to do that uh later. But I really like this one. It's non-irritating. I have rosacea and very reactive skin, so I have to be careful. But a retinol that stimulates collagen, that does a little bit of exfoliation, I think that should also be a part of any woman's um that isn't trying to get pregnant or is in breastfeeding's routine. And finally, something that stimulates collagen. Now, there's a lot of uh stuff like on TikTok and like you were saying, Instagram, a lot of it can be misleading. Now, there are two things that I really like. So um, but I think I'll lean more towards this modality because it's cost effective, it's under $500, it builds on itself and it's still scientifically backed. So I think microneedling is a big deal. And you know, it's not a one-and-done thing, it's just like everything we've been talking about. Like we're trying to invest, it's like we're putting money into the bank and we're looking for interest. So, microneedling, I think, is safe, effective, minimal downtime, and it's not gonna cost you thousands of dollars to do, and it's scientifically backed. Now it does depend on who's doing it. So, you know, microneedling, you don't just want to go on Amazon and buy a pen. I've reviewed a few pens. You got to be really careful because some of them are just you're dragging and really abrading your skin. So I like to go to an aesthetician who has a you know an FDA approved brand pen, like skin pens, the one that I use. I like it. Um, and then they can compound it. You can put some like growth factors on afterwards or exosomes to really do an extra boost. But I think that micro trauma stimulates collagen. So you're using your own body to tighten and tone, even out texture, help with some pigmentation, and it's on the natural side because you're just causing micro trauma, so your skin heals itself. You know, there's some red light masks. I really like those. I just bought my first one this year after a ton of research, but I wasn't willing to spend 700 bucks. So I did find it.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

I was looking at it the other day. Yeah. What did you what's the brand you have that you finally landed on?

SPEAKER_02 8:17

So I actually landed on Solo Wave, and the only reason they got me because I like I'm not, I don't mind spending money. I wasn't sold on the red light, and I do want to get into that. I think the microneedling has an edge. So if you have to pick one or the other, I think I would lean towards that. But there's something to this red light that it's like, once again, you're banking, it doesn't seem like it's working, but I bought the solo wave only because they did a buy one, get one free. So I got the mask with the neck and the face. So I was like, let me just give this a whirl. Yeah. Me and my nurse practitioner, like, we're hemming and hauling which one we're gonna buy. And we're like, okay, for $300, we get both pieces. Even if it doesn't work, we're not gonna be broke. Right. And it's like a spa treatment at home. And I feel like it's given my skin a little brightness. Do I think that it is less wrinkled? No. But it's a subtle, it's a subtle, like I had an extra hour of sleep difference. So, you know, if that's the goal you're looking for, I think it's worth it. Um, it does meet all the criteria that I was looking for. Like you need a certain number of lights. I liked ones with a lot of lights, and it needs to be the near infrared and infrared because you want to stimulate collagen, get in that deep zone. I was looking because, like I said, I had rosacea, it did kind of cross-cover that with the wavelength there, but there are some that are just purely that really deep infrared. But I was like, let me just dip my toes in this, and it was worth it because of that deal. So I don't speak for them, I don't make money. It was what I bought for myself, and if they get any props from this, they can call me Alan.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Here's that's not what I got.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

I love everything that you said so much. I'm like writing it down. So, like the first one, sunscreen. It sounds too good to be true, but it's so real. And I have seen so many like Instagram reels, which are so funny, of dermatologist conferences where every dome is like covered, like head, scarf, hat, sunscreen, long sleeve, and everyone's laughing at it. But actually, it's it's serious. The sun damage is serious, and you know, me being Australian, uh, the sun in Australia is a different animal. It's but we have holes in our ozone, and we have issues, and it is really scary because one in three people when I left, and that was 10 years over 10 years ago, have skin cancer, melanomas. So I think sunscreen is a huge deal, so cheap, so easy. Um, can I ask one question though? There is like so much trend about tallow sunscreen. Is that is that even real? Because it doesn't have any zinc in it, from my knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Yeah, you know, I so I love I love tallow. You have to be careful with your skin type because it can clog pores, and you don't just want to use it by itself because it's kind of occlusive. I look at it like aquifore or vaseline. So when I would not use tallow as sunscreen, I don't know how it works to protect you from sunscreen. I do believe it's a natural product and I do love it for moisturizing post-procedure, even wound healing. But for sunscreen, I haven't bid on that. Like I said, I do love natural. If you want to be natural, the zinc titanium. I think that's misleading because I'm not quite sure how physiologically that's gonna because when we use sunscreen or a blocker, it's either taking the energy away from the light and kind of scattering it, or it's reflecting it. So tallow is kind of like an oil and it's similar to our skin. So our skin's gonna absorb that oil um and integrate it. That's why I think it makes a good moisturizer. So I'm not sure scientifically how that would protect our skin from burning. So um, I would just do your research. I don't have the data points, but it's not something that I would recommend at this point.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

And I think that's the kind of point to a lot of this, like a lot of these influences on Instagram or TikTok that we see. Like you have to do your own research. Don't just take their word for it. Because especially when they're not qualified, like you know, you check it even if it's a doctor that's talking, because there are some crazy and very good doctors out there, like any person. Uh, but especially when they're not qualified and they're not a medical professional, and they're saying, Oh, I use, I don't know, orange peels for sunscreen. You're kind of like, oh, well, that's trending, but let me just let me just do my research on that. I don't know about orange peels working as like because the craziest things come out of social media.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

It's crazy in TikTok. I actually have to deal with a lot of TikTok things. And I always tell patients, let's just say a drug that I write all the time because I need to write it. I've like I've shared with you, I'm trying to be a little more integrative. Hey, these are tools, I don't want this to be lifelong. Let's look at why this is happening because our skin is like it's our first defense, but it's also the first thing that we're gonna see because our organs we don't always hear all the time. Um you know, I I feel like I tell patients here, here's the information I have. This is an option. I need you to go home. I want you to look at this brochure, look up some stuff, and come back and let's discuss it because you need to be the CEO of your own health. So yes, I think you should listen to people who have experience with medications, products, there are leaders in the field. But you should always be inquisitive and being an advocate for yourself because I can't say after 10 years that I know everything because I don't.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah, well, and then the second thing you mentioned was the retinoid or retinol. And for the longest time I heard about this, I heard about this, but I was just not interested, and I was in my 20s, and anti-aging seems so far away. But now I'm like, tell me about this retinol right now. I want to know all the details. And I don't know if you follow Dr. Tony Yoon MD, he's a plastic surgeon, he's a holistic plastic surgeon, which is like that's awesome. Very interesting. It you do not hear about that very often. It's his own line, and he was using Bacuciol.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Yes, that's a great product, too. Yes, I like Bacuchiol, and one of the hyaluronic acids I use actually has that in there because it does do that same stimulating with way better like side effect profile for sure. Um, that's a huge molecule that kind of slipped my mind because retinol is the buzzword. I think because we have more data on the retinoids, but that is a sleeper that if you're afraid of retinols, I think every skin can tolerate that, but still being mindful because it's um it's not studied in pregnancy or breastfeeding. So we always want to be careful because any type of retinoid, retinoic stuff that's category X and it can have birth defects. So um I would always be careful with the label reading, even though it says natural, we don't have enough data.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yeah, and I I really don't know that much about this whole thing, it's really new to me because I literally just ordered it like three weeks ago.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

And I oh, it's so nice. That'll be really nice.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

I believe Bacuchiol, it comes from a plant, and so it is not like made in a lab um or extracted in the way that a retinoid would be. So it is plant derived. It's but you know what was so interesting was I started using it and I felt the effect almost immediately, and my skin got too dry because I think that's also because you're very people who uh never used a retinoid or retinol in their life and then start using something. So I actually had to space it out. So use less, mix it with a different moisturizer, do it every like two, three days as opposed to every day, and now it's like okay, this is better. But it's very it's crazy how much of impact something so little, but in the in the category of retinol, retinoid is doing had on me. So bacon.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Yeah, I mean, so all of those molecules. Well, I tell everybody when you add something new to your product, because here's what other people don't recognize like vitamin C is the big guy too in the field, like it protects from free radicals, it works alongside the sunscreen. Vitamin C, when you're using a retinol together, it can add to that irritation. So I always tell people, kind of like you, like, let's take it every other day with retinols and serums, like you know, um, with buchyotrol, you want to be careful with the amount that you're using because more isn't better with those molecules. So I tell my patients with retinols and retinoids, um, you want to use a pea size amount to start. You wanna, I tell my patients, um, especially with the prescription strength ones, like I said, I found a retinol that's non-irritating, so you can cut back on the steps. But if you're new to it, I would just recommend you wash your face with your gentle cleanser, you put a moisturizer on, you wait a half hour, and a pea size amount is enough for your whole face, and you start every other night, do that for two weeks. If you don't have unwanted irritation, it's okay if you have a little bit of peeling, but it shouldn't be like face dandering. You know what I mean? You shouldn't be uncomfortable. Then you can increase it to nightly. Um, and like you said, yes, anytime you're adding a retinoid to the situation, you need to be very diligent about your sunscreen. I've experienced this with my acne patients. I'll get phone calls from moms because kiddos don't listen when I talk, they're not listening to their parents, you know, their kids. Um, the mom's calling because the kid's face is swollen, burnt, blistered, and it's very well demarcated. I was like, did they wear sunscreen? Oh my gosh, no, they were out playing baseball for 10 hours. And I'm like, ooh, well, that sucks. Yeah. What's your favorite? What are you using? Tell us. I have to say, like, I like the derma botana, the derma botana retinol. I think that it's lovely, non-irritating. Um, and I can send you all this stuff too, and you can put it in your show notes. Um, I have coupon codes. Um, that is an encapsulated retinol and a time release. So you're not getting that hit from the retinol, like that prescription strain. It's encapsulated so that it has this lipid base, so it's like moisture. Not, I don't want to say it's moisturizing, but it really isn't as aggressive in time release. So you're not just getting hit with this aggressive molecule. I really don't like the generic tretinoins. I don't know anyone who can really tolerate it unless you're a greasy teenager. There are some branded retinoids that are complex with hyaluronic acid. Um, the brand name for that is Altrino, um, and you can only get that from a doctor. I like my Derma Botanica. I think it's great. Um, another wonderful retina I like, very transparent ingredients. A lot of their products in general are fragrance-free. They're um they have a really good faith-based, you know, belief. Animi makes a good retinal. I think it might be a little stronger than Derma Botanica. I didn't know Animi made that actually.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

That's really new.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Yeah, and they have a vitamin C that's lovely. Like we talked about vitamin C's, their gentle cleansers, lovely. Um, you know, and I love their protein serum. They have a power protein serum that I think is nice. Um, it's kind of like food for your skin at a really great price point. Um, I like that at nighttime. Um, and then I use my my actives or my prescriptions. Now I've gotten into using azoleic acid, which is prescription at 15%. And what I've noticed that it's given me this nice glow to my skin. It helps with my redness with my rosacea and my reactive tendencies. But I've been telling patients you can get that over the counter. I think the inky list does a 10%. Um, but I just love that molecule in general. I just got into it recently because my nurse practitioner, I was like, what are you doing for your skin? And she's like, Azoleic acid. I was like, what? I thought it did nothing. But you know, azoleic acid is such a great molecule. It's anti-inflammatory. I think it gives my skin a great glow. Um, and I actually use it more in a lot of my pigmentary disorders. That's why I was like, oh, it can do all of this because azoleic acid actually prevents um pigment from forming, especially like with my African Americans, you know, skin of color. You have to worry about when they get a zit, they're gonna have a like a purple mark, even or a dark mark. And that prevents that formation a little bit. So um I think it's a great molecule. I'm obsessed with it. Just because the price is higher doesn't mean it's great. Um, you know, just because it's trendy doesn't mean it's great. You know, I try to pick products that are scientifically backed that I can wrap my head around and that aren't trendy. I don't want to be Like the new thing that my staff comes to me, and I was like, What is that? This algae mask. I've never heard of it with this, it's like a chemical peel with algae. I was like, Well, that sounds great and natural, but like, how does that work? Why does it work? Is it doing something safe? Like, these are all the questions I have. And I think you should also be looking at your products that way because you know, it has a high price tag on it, but like, do you know what's in it? Uh, that's the kind of question I've been starting to, you know, ask myself when I've been looking at these products, and that's why I like Derma Botanica, you know, they have a, you know, a very transparent list and Mimi. They both that also is another company, and they're trying to move away from fragrance as well. They're re-rebranding and reformulating. So um, I'm looking for products like that, but I I'm not trashing like Obaji's great, Zio's great. I just think there's a lot of hype around those things. Um and they do have, like, I'm saying, like, I'm just not gonna drop $40 on a cleanser. I mean, I'm not doing it because you're washing your face, it's in minimal contact with your skin. How much is it actually doing because you're rinsing it off? I'd rather use Dove to wash my face and then invest in okay, I really want that skin suiticals vitamin C. I really want it. To me, that's what's important. Well, I'm gonna push my money to this. And there's evidence-based stuff in that. So that's kind of how I approach products. Um, and I do cycle things in and out.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

I guess, you know, one of the things that's hard for moms, especially postpartum in the early days, is you know, I'm gonna tell you, and and I think a lot of moms will agree, sometimes we don't even have time to brush our teeth and wash our face. So it's like so hard. And then you see these Instagram influencers doing like a 20-step routine at night, and we're like, I'm just putting water on my eyes right now, and so I I wanted to ask, like, if we just want the simplest possible effective routine morning and night, sometimes even once a day, because sometimes we don't get to wash our faces twice a day or even put makeup on. We cleanse and then we tone, do a toner, or maybe not, and a moisturizer. If if there was like a three-step simple routine, because is that what it looks like? Is that okay? Because like that's what we grew up on in the 1990s and 2000s doing. We did cleanser and then we did moisturizer and sunscreen. Like, is that okay? Like, what what is the what is yeah?

SPEAKER_02 24:43

I think that's more than okay. Because the thing is, like, you don't need to be complicated to be effective. So, like, I can't do that many steps. I mean, yeah, I have a bunch of products, but like, I kind of, in order for me to see what's working, I don't do a lot of things. I think for busy moms, the best thing you can do is, you know, you're already kind of depleted, you know, you have a baby, you're trying to get on a sleep schedule, you know, you're breastfeeding. I think the most important thing for moms is to focus on the inside. Because if you're not taking care of you the best that you can, like with eating, getting high protein, um, you know, just doing something for you, even if it's taking a nap while baby's napping, whatever you're putting here isn't gonna matter. So you're just like, you're wasting money because like you need your inside to be good first, and then we can catch this up. So I think that should be first and foremost nutrition, rest, napping, obviously, washing with a gentle cleanser, a sunscreen, and then at nighttime, if you really want to do something, try to find something that's like combo. So, like going back, like I like Durma Botanica because their hyaluronic acid serum has that bookiocho in it. So you kind of get that retinoid feel, so you're not doing multi-steps, but you'll still need a moisturizer with a hyaluronic acid because a hyaluronic acid needs to be applied to damp skin, you know, with a moisturizer because it's pulling moisture, it's hydrophilic. So, in order for it to pull something, it needs that to pull it into your skin, or else you're really gonna dry your skin out. So I would say, you know, looking for combo products. Um, I honestly, if you just want to do no actives, because a lot of moms are breastfeeding and you can't do actives. I really think Neutrogena has a beautiful hydroboost moisturizing cream. So you're getting a moisturizer with a hyaluronic acid and you can do like a moisture bomb. You can use their hydroboost gel cream with a hyaluronic acid serum. They make one, ordinary makes one, Derma Botanica and Mimi, you pick one. You don't have to spend a lot on hyaluronic acid, but I do prefer the ones that have multimolecular ones. Um, just because it deeply penetrates when you're a busy mom, you need to make things easy. But it doesn't mean because it's easy, it's not good. It doesn't mean if it's not expensive, it's not good. You just have to make sure that you're picking the quality products and you're not following these trends. You know, the ordinary has a great hyaluronic acid. I mean, that's great. It's at a good point price point. It is only one molecular weight, but that doesn't mean it's not gonna work. So if that's where you're at, you can shop there. It's a great that line is good. The inky list is good. So you just I think that there are products at good price points and you can still make a good drugstore routine without spending a bunch. Yeah, but I would just say a good moisturizer with hyaluronic acid to plump the skin. If you're breastfeeding, no retinol, and a gentle cleanser in a sunscreen. And then when baby's done breastfeeding and you want to add one more step and they're on a regular napping schedule, add your retinal and call it a day.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

And so you touched on this point that I had wanted to ask you, which is so important too. You being very much interested and passionate about integrative and functional health. Then, you know, we talked about the three anti-aging, like non-injectable outside things that we can do. What about the three things we could do for our inside? Like, is there a kind of nutrient type food or exercise or something that you've learned about that you want to share?

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Yeah, you know, I just think as women, we need to, I don't want to say it's necessarily food, but high-quality food. Like, we want to be questioning what we're putting in our body. So become a label reader. If you don't know what's the in the if you can't, when you look at it, if you're like, oh, I don't have that in my spice closet, you probably shouldn't be putting it into your body. If God didn't make it, maybe you shouldn't eat it. You know, I'm not saying like, oh, I'm never gonna have a potato chip again. I'm not saying that. But we have to look at our bodies as what we put in is what will come out. So if we're chain smoking because we're stressed and we're not taking the time to address, you know, trauma's a real thing, you know, trauma comes out in skin conditions, you know, if that is that leading us to heavily drink, if it's keeping us up at night, if we're eating fast food because we're working three jobs, we have no support, all of that is telling our body. It's like code for a computer. So we're coding badness, and that's gonna come out. So I get it. Single mom, you know, with young kids, you have to, it's not always easy to make a homemade meal. Um, it's not always easy to put yourself first and you're like, man, I it's just hard. So it's it's small steps, you know. Um, but I do believe getting a little bit of sunshine, believe it or not, a little bit of sunshine, not at peak hour of sun tanning. We are kind of like plants. Like when we get sun, our brain kind of does something. It regulates our circadian rhythm, helps us with sleep, helps us with our vitamin D, helps us with metabolism. Just getting out into nature that can really just connect us and ground us. It sounds silly, but like I like to run. So when I'm stuck on a treadmill running, that's way different than when I'm outside running. Um exercise and movement is medicine. It does upregulate the good stress chemicals in our body so that our body's like, okay, I can utilize this, I can get rid of old stuff and clean house kind of, and then build new things. And I feel like women, especially us as we age, I'm in my 40s. So my biggest goal is muscle gaining. So we want to focus on protein as women. We want to focus on building muscle. We're not here to be bodybuilders. You're never gonna be a bodybuilder. You don't have testosterone like that. But we want to prevent sarcopenia and osteopenia. The more muscle we have, the less fat we have, the more mitochondria we have. You know, we're gonna build more bone and our body's gonna be strong. So eating good quality protein, eating from the rainbow, getting those phytonutrients. Like when I'm eating cooking, I'm like, okay, do I have reds? Do I have purples? Do I have yellows? Getting all of those because they're all vitamins that our body needs. Our standard American diet, I'm pretty sure Australia is the same. It's loaded with processed foods and chemicals, ultra-processed foods. There's no nutrition in that. Um, so I just say, you know, you don't have to spend a lot of money on groceries, but you can just stick to what you know when you look at a label, cutting out junk, cutting out artificial stuff, because our body can't process it and it's going to show on our skin and minimizing the toxins that we can. You know, we have a lot of VOCs we got to worry about. I try to keep my house free of like all the artificial fragrances. Um, I love the Earth Working Group app, especially for my people who struggle with skin conditions. You can run skincare products in there, you can run uh laundry detergents because even the so-called free and clear can still be very irritating. There's hidden chemicals in there. So just there's only so much we can do. I'm not saying lose your mind over it, but we want to give our body the best shot because if you're just chugging along and then you're gonna invest in Botox filler $400 face creams, why?

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Yeah, yeah, it's like there's no amount, like there's no way you can eat McDonald's every day and Cheerios and whatever, and expect your retinol, the 500 retinol, or whatever you're spending at the dermatologist or someone doing Botox. It's just not gonna last. It's just not gonna look good. It's a total, you know, it's not parallel, it's totally asymmetrical. We have to kind of do as good as we can for our inside, and also do a little bit like you said, on the outside. That doesn't actually take a lot of steps.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

No, and our outside isn't gonna compensate for what we've done to our inside. So I have a lot of patients that come to me and they're like, Well, you know, they're boaters or whatever, they lived the good life, and that's fine. You've been 30 years, you come in and you're asking me, and I'm not a plastic surgeon. At that point, I just tell them Botox for you. And I could recommend these creams, but your collagen is busted. The elastic fibers are busted. You've been tanning in a genuine, you're a heavy smoker. Nothing I can do and want, but you didn't have to get here if you just took a few of prevention, not even buying products.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

I do want to talk about a huge thing for postpartum moms. And I think this is not only a postpartum mom thing, this is just part of women aging and men aging too. So, can you talk a little bit about that as well?

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Yeah, hair loss is a big part of my practice. Um, there's many different types of hair loss though. Um, the one that you're referring to, postpartum, is telogen effluvium, and that's temporary. So it's shocking. I've experienced it in my own life, and I have to like do the self-talk to myself. Like I'm in the shower, I'm seeing the clumps, and I'm I know it's not permanent. I know I'm not gonna go bald, but I'm still telling myself you're not gonna go bald. It's okay. Um, but that's because of the stress on the body of pregnancy and breastfeeding. So there's things you can do, and doing nothing is okay. But the more you stress about it, the more it can feed it. So it's like that's why I'm always doing the self-talk. It's okay, it's gonna pass. This isn't permanent. You're not gonna go bald. I'm not bald. It came back every time. Um, but if you're like, oh my gosh, this is really stressing me out, there are some things you can do as long as you're not breastfeeding. Obviously, if you're breastfeeding, you just have to ride it out. And it, I promise you, it does turn around. It just the most unnerving part about it is that the hair falls faster than it grows. So, like, yeah, you are gonna be having a thin ponytail because you're only gonna start to have these baby hairs, and our hair grows in three-month hair cycles. So it grows for three months, then it rests, then it grows again. So, like, it seems like you're getting nowhere. It is like watching grass grow. Um, but that type of hair loss, so you can do nothing and it'll resolve as long as you're like eating protein-rich foods, uh, you know, taking care of yourself, getting rest, um, making yourself a priority, and and on top of caring for baby, that's a big one. Now, you know, there are some people who are like, well, but I want to do something, I want to do something, and that's great too. So as long as you're not breastfeeding and you just want to do something, there are some hair supplements that I do back because I think they work, I think they're scientifically backed and they're not garbage. There is a word of warning though, and this goes for any product. If a product promises you these like life-altering results in a like three-week time frame, don't buy it. That's that's not even physiologically sound. It's not nothing I've ever seen work in three weeks, unless you had a magic wand. So I would say the three top hair vitamins, there's two that I really like. So um, neutrophil is great. So neutrophil is scientifically backed. They have monoxidyl-free serums, they have a formulation, not just for women, but for men, for postpartum women, and for uh peri and postmenopausal women, because that's another time we get hit with our hair loss. Um, so I do like that about that line. The second line is the extressay line. Two gummies, one size fits all. The date is pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Uh as we age, when is it that women should go and see a dermatologist? Because, you know, a lot of other specialties like dentists, we see them once or twice a year. It's covered by our health insurance, but often dermatologists don't get that much airtime uh with with the general public. So, what's your opinion on you know, should moms, women in our 30s and 40s, go and see a dermatologist, and when should that be?

SPEAKER_02 38:22

You know, I don't think there's any set age, but I will give you some kind of if this then this. Um, I think women, once you hit your 40th birthday, just like you know, they hand out colonoscopies, you know, get a um, whether or not you have moles, whether or not you're worried about anything, because as we age, we do grow a lot of new things. And they're not all bad, but a dermatologist can pick on pick up on subtle like cancerous growth. I think if you have a positive family history for melanoma, so a first-degree relative, mom, dad, brother, sister, you should be doing skin checks, you know. I mean, maybe even as early as 30, especially if you've used tanning beds, gotten a lot of sunburns. I mean, you live in Australia. I feel like your population should be seeing them probably in your 20s, a baseline. But I would say a good baseline, hey, 40. If you've never had a family member with melanoma, if you've never, you know, had any real big sunburns or tanning bed use. There are a lot of people, I call them my freckled friends. They're my moly friends. I think if you have a bunch of moles on your back that you have no one to really look at and you're not checking in with your doctor annually, bring in a dermatologist because there are a lot of spots that we can't see. We can't check our butt cracks. You can get melanoma in your butt crack. We that it's the only skin cancer you can grow where the sun doesn't shine. I check everyone's crack. Um, I look at their scalps. Hey, if your hairdresser ever mentions something to you, let me know. You know, we check their mouth, we check their armpits, you know. Obviously, I ask them about their genitals, if the gynecologist has ever seen anything. Um, I and then if they have something of concern, then we check that too. Uh, so I think everyone should be getting skin checks because we don't see what we don't know is there.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Moving on, we've covered so much ground, and thank you so much for staying on with me. But this is a huge question. We've talked about things that that actually work that you really like, we've talked about brands that you like, and then we've kind of touched on a little bit of things that are like utter nonsense or complete scams that we are seeing so much. We're just so bombarded in social media by people who are just trying to make some money or I don't know, like to lie or get attention. What are the craziest beauty scams or like skin anti-aging scams that you've seen? And you're like, oh, this person needs to be taken offline.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

People were taking Vaseline and just rubbing it all over their face for whatever, I don't know why. Um, and then coming in and they're like, Well, my face is breaking out, but I'm using this because this is what so-and-so on TikTok because it gives you a glow. And I was like, You are occluding your skin, it's not breathing. That's why you're breaking out. Well, that's what I saw on TikTok, and I was like, Stop, stop listening to TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Have you heard of the frownies? It's like a sticker on their face where they have their frown line, and they're like, Oh, I sticker to that, and it works. And I'm like, Really though? It's a sticker, like, how much are you wearing the sticker? And like, if it's so sticky, isn't it really bad when you like take it off your skin?

SPEAKER_02 41:59

Oh yeah, I don't know how that would work. And in my mind, because I have a little bit of knowledge, like we make facial, we get wrinkles because we lose collagen elastin and we make our movements. That's why Botox works. So I guess if you're putting a sticky and you're paralyzing the face for a little bit amount of time, it might work, but no, that's crap. You might give yourself a contact dermatitis from the adhesive.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

There's this other thing that's been trending. Bucal massage. Bukal massage, it's where they are massaging your face, and it's supposed to help with I don't know, beauty and circulation. I I really don't even know what the purpose is. Bukal massage, this woman, when they're massaging your face, she's putting gloves on and she's massaging inside your mouth with gloves on, like a dentist. Like, and I'm like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

You know, so the only thing I can say about massage of the face, being an osteopath. So we believe our body has the ability to heal itself, we are one system, lymphatic, circulatory. So if it feels good and it's not expensive, because there are so there are some things about, I don't know if it's been trending unrelated to Durham, but I know there's like, so when we clench our jaws, so I clench my jaw, that gives the face a more muscular look. So if you can like relax those muscles through massage, it is directly so our jaw and our pelvic floor are connected, and it has to do with tension and stress. So indirectly massaging the face, releasing trigger points, I can see that in a very secondary way benefiting with stress and trigger points and stuff like that. Um helping indirectly. But as far as like stopping wrinkles, preventing wrinkles, making you look like you had a facelift, no. I think there is something to be said about that gua sha and like lymphatic drainage because like allergy season is upon us. I wake up sometimes and my eyes are puffy. Moving that along can decrease puff. Is it going to stop wrinkle formation? No. But is it going to make you look less puffy and less maybe a little more brighter? Sure. So indirectly, yes, but is that how you're going to treat your wrinkles? No.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

You have seen so many patients over the years who come in and want something better for their beauty. They want to look like Lindsay Lohan, they want to look 10 years younger or whatnot. And sometimes that's fine, and we all want to look better. And I think there's a line of yes, you want to approach beauty that way, and that's totally fine and that's healthy. But then there might be a line where we cross it and we go into this addiction of constantly wanting to look better and kind of obsessing over ourselves. And it's very hard sometimes to balance that line or balance that in ourselves. And I think every woman kind of goes through that, especially as we age. Of course, we want to look better. Of course, we want to look younger. But at which point is it unhealthy for us to pursue that? And I guess I want to ask you, what do you think is a good approach to beauty? What is that fine line? And yeah, how can how can we approach beauty? How can we approach how to love ourselves and as as our faces change over time?

SPEAKER_02 45:49

You know, I get this a lot, and I have to say, uh I do have these conversations with patients in a really nice way. Now, don't misunderstand, I do have the patients that have body dysmorphic disorder, where, like you said, like it's kind of crossing into a pathologic realm. Um, and it is really on the provider and like the doctor, the nurse injector. Like, you need to be kind of scoping those types of patients out because you're like as a doctor, we're the caregiver, but we're also doctor means teacher in Greek. So dossier, that's where it comes from. So I do make that my intention, even if we want to talk about injectables. And I feel like with anything, and obviously easier said than done. I think every woman, at least at some point in their life, has really gotten hung up on something silly, whether it's something they're holding on to because someone said it to them, or they're hyper-focused on something. Like we all do it. I'm hyper-focused on something you're not even tracking on my face, and vice versa. So um, I believe that as we age, we are we want to feel pretty, right? Like, I know that's what I want to feel pretty. I want like my husband to think I'm pretty. Um, so I do think we have to redefine pretty as we evolve. So pretty evolves. And pretty, beautiful, gorgeous, you know, those things, those terms need to evolve as we evolve. And just because it doesn't look like it used to doesn't mean it's less beautiful. The other thing is our worth, our self-worth, it's easier said than done. I agree. I mean, I'm in this business. Um but it shouldn't be tied to the way that we look. It should be tied to, you know, a lot of things. Like our self-worth should be tied to our accomplishments, the way that we make people feel, you know, what we give back to our communities, our, you know, what we've invested in ourselves, our own personal accomplishments. So when I have patients come in and I think that they're chasing unrealistic standards, I tell them, hey, what you're asking me, it's unnatural. So I have patients, for instance, I'll use two examples. And I had to have a conversation and obviously loving. Um but I'm not gonna be the doctor to deform them. Number one. And my job is to tell them, like to point out. So when I do a consult for an injectable, let's say I have a woman, a mom, hey, I'm feeling really tired. I really everyone's getting Botox. Can you talk to me about it? Okay, I hand them the mirror. What bothers you about your face that you're asking me for Botox? Because sometimes they don't even know what they're asking for. Hey, I look tired. Well, Botox isn't gonna fix that. Well, my lips look flat. Well, Botox doesn't fix that. And why do you think that? So I'm interviewing them, you know, and and learning what they're seeing. Because when I see a woman coming to me, sometimes I don't see like, what are you doing? Why? Why do you need this? Stop. But I had two patients, um, both younger, like you're saying, you know, we're supposed to have a hollow here. You know, I have a little one. If I zoom in, like that's natural. It's a 10, it's a ligament there, it's a natural structure. And some of us are a little more pronounced. She wanted obliterated. You can't, it's not natural to look like a goldfish with puffy eyes. So I was like, we can't do that. Like that line is normal and it makes you you. I really don't think that I'm the right person to do that. And I had another gal too with like um, they didn't want nasal label folds, the little parentheses. I you can't have this, this isn't natural. So, like I obviously, like, I'm trying to understand what they're asking for because they don't know what they're asking for. I want to validate what they feel because truly they feel self-conscious about something. But is it coming from the way they look or is it coming from something deeper? And finally, hey, here's my limitations in what I can give you and what I'm willing to give you because you think that's what you want, but you're not gonna be happy with that. Um, so I think, you know, to your point, learning to love every stage, even though it has some hard times, just like raising kids. Raising kids, there's good times and there's bad times. There's not sleeping through the night and sick, and then there's teenage driving years, you know. So aging is the same. You have to look for like, well, you know what? Yeah, I have a couple more fine lines in my face, but man, have I had a lot of fun times making these smile lines? Or, you know, okay, um my face is a little more droopy. I mean, we lose bone as we age. That's normal. Okay, I want to I want to rejuvenate it, but I want to remain me. And that's what I try to verbalize to my patients. I don't want people to know you had anything done. I want to build on the beautiful foundation God has given you. And I want you to feel good about yourself without losing yourself because at the end of the day, you don't want to be a different person. You just want to, you want to feel. I think sometimes we think if we fix the outside, it'll fix something inside, or we're feeling great inside and we want it to match the outside. So I need to, as a doctor, figure that out because sometimes they ask me for things that I'll never be able to deliver because they have some wounds that, you know, that that's what they see. They see their wound on their face that I don't see. So I think that's the biggest part. So, you know, just asking yourself, if I do this, what will it make me feel? And is that true? And if it is, great. But it's also learning to love every stage because no matter what I do with lasers or plastic surgeons do with facelifts, you will age and you will die. It's a part of life. Yeah, you want to do it gracefully and you want to do it naturally, and you want to try to embrace every stage, even the knee that hurts when you go up the step from time to time, you know, because we aren't made to last forever, but we're made to make memories and enjoy the trip.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

This is so good. That's so good. Thank you so much for saying that. And that's very encouraging because what I what we say on this podcast a lot is how life comes in seasons. So thank you so much for being on here with us.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Oh, it was my pleasure. Thanks for having me. This was awesome. I'm excited to continue to listen to your podcast and learn from others.