Susie - I Refuse to be a Victim

A two‑piece swimsuit turned see‑through. A cabin in the woods. Years of silence that felt safer than the truth. Susan joins us to trace a line from early humiliation and assault to a life rebuilt on wise vulnerability, safe witnessing, and a stubborn kind of joy that doesn’t vanish when life gets loud. We talk about how shame sneaks in when adults laugh instead of protect, how silence becomes a habit that looks like strength, and how one brave share can unhook a story from your identity.

We get specific about what “safe space” really means—people who listen more than they talk, don’t moralize your pain, and hold your words with care.

You’ll hear practical ways to test trust with small disclosures, spot red flags, and use discretion without feeling like you’re keeping secrets. We map the move from triggers to glimmers, showing how tiny moments of safety slowly retrain the nervous system. 

For those who hold space for others, we offer tools to witness without absorbing: journaling to move the weight of listening, debriefing with non‑identifying details to a trusted mentor, and simple rituals that return stories to their owners.

Susan’s faith frames her courage: testimony brings light, and light starves shame. Whether you connect through spirituality, community, or professional support, the path forward starts with one step—making a call, walking into a resource center, or telling one kind person. If you’ve ever wondered how to share your story without breaking yourself open again, this conversation is your guide and your companion.

If this helped, follow the show, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a review so others can find these stories. Your voice matters—what part of this conversation stayed with you?

Susan lives in Virginia with her husband, she is a mother of three and Nanny to 8 Grandies. She has been mentoring and teaching for over 30 years. At twenty-eight years old, Susan fell in love with Jesus and God’s word in print. She takes the promise of Hope and overcoming wherever she goes, whether speaking to a large group, or just meeting a complete stranger. She can't help but share that God’s promises are bigger than any obstacle she or you face.

https://www.facebook.com/susan.dunning.77/

X @dunsuz

Instagram @misseshopeful

Transcript

Welcome, Purpose, and Care Notice

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Defiance of Silence, a sacred witness. This is a space for survivors, healers, and witnesses to share their truth. Here we stand against the silence that isolates us and embrace the silence that allows us to be truly heard. I'm Valerie, your host, a U.S. Army veteran, nurse, and a survivor. Together we will discover the power of being witnessed and the healing that follows. A gentle note though, this podcast includes conversations about sexual trauma and abuse. Please listen with care and honor your own well-being. Thank you for being here to witness today's conversation. Here we are. Hi, here we are. Here we are. So first I want to welcome you, Susan. This is my friend Susan, everyone. Um Susan is coming to us from Virginia and she lives there with her husband, and she has a farm, which is really exciting. She has a farm. So she actually has eight grandchildren and four children, correct? Three. Three. Three children. Three children. Eight grandies. I love that you call them grandies. That's so cute. Um so Susan actually is one of the most amazing people that I know. She takes the promise of hope and overcoming wherever she goes. So whether she's speaking to a large group or in the coffee shop, she just makes you feel seen. And I have definitely, ooh, definitely felt seen by you. So I brought her here today because um Susan was the first to encourage me um really to tell my story publicly. And if you heard the first episode of this podcast, you know a little bit about that, what's happened to me. Um, so about I want to say about 12 years ago now, Miss Susan and I were in church together, and um, and she really encouraged me to openly share my story and said that it needed to be done. And I said, No, not doing it. Um, but she she truly did encourage me um that we're just gonna stay bound if we don't speak the truth. And so I I just want to thank you for helping me be a truth teller. So yeah, that's why you're here today. And I am just so blessed and excited that my listening friends get to hear a little bit of your story. Um, and part of your story is is why I can tell my story. So, you know, we're not alone, right? We're in it together. Um the kids stick together. That's right. We find each other. Is that what we say? Um so so you were really the first one to hold space for me um and really just let me breathe and be seen for who I am. So with that, um, I'm forever grateful. You're a classy lady. So I'm excited to hear um love you too. And I'm really excited to hear what what God is doing in your life and what he brought you from. And I know that the listeners are gonna be blown away by your story. And um the name of this podcast is Defiance of Silence. And the reason we do that is because if it's in the dark, it's gonna stay there. So when we say it, it comes out, right? It's out. And then we hold space, which is that sacred witnessing. So it can't cause any shame. And that's what we're here to do. So wherever this conversation, yeah. So wherever this conversation goes today, um, that's where it's supposed to go. And so we're just gonna hold space for each other and our listeners. And um yeah. So you want to start just by telling me a little bit before you get into your story of how you grew up.

The Pool Incident and Early Shame

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Well, I was the seventh of eight children, and um it was chaos, and it was just absolutely lovely and tragic at the same time. It was um my dad left when I was nine, so there were five of us left at home. Um, my older three siblings um had two of them had just gotten married. My oldest sister had just left for the airlines. She had was flying for Eastern Airlines. And um my dad left, and he really had been gone for a couple years, really um was I we barely saw him. Um, and my sisters, there's three of us, there were three of us at the end. They called us the three little girls, and we really um we really felt that we got the um best part because we got to have our mom and we didn't go through the abuse of my dad. We witnessed it as children, but we didn't we we didn't really um have to live through it like my older siblings did. And um and so we felt um great about that. But there was a lot of dysfunction, a lot of drugs, a lot of drinking, a lot of just generational generations of drinking, and um and and uh so but all along that my mom just was the keeper of fun and love and and joy, and she tried so hard, she worked so hard to keep us um all sure footed. In that, we didn't talk about a lot. Oh, we just don't talk about that, you know, and a lot of things just got buried, or we had it was so important to march on that we weren't allowed to stop and talk about it, or did that bother you? You know, we just needed to move on to the next thing because we were all in survival. I mean, there wasn't really a living. My mom worked full-time, she came home, we had sports, we had, you know, all the things, and she tried to keep it all together, and she was just absolutely amazing. So um, in that, so when I was so I started out today, I started out when you asked me to do this talking about the trauma of um sexual abuse and and rape. Um, but then for the past two days, I've just had this um memory that keeps coming up, and I think really it um kind of forms a plat, it formed a platform in my life. There were two things. One, I got high when I was 12 and with my siblings, and um that really changed the trajectory of my life because that changed my friends and everything. But I was always a really responsible girl and always really good and trusted. Everybody trusted me, and I was the typical um peacekeeper, and um and so my aunt and uncle trusted me to babysit. I started babysitting when I was nine, and by the time I was 12, I was spending weekends babysitting my cousins. My aunt and uncle would go away, and they would leave me with my wow cousins.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

That is really young to me, babysitting. Oh my goodness.

Cabin Assault at Fourteen and Keeping Quiet

SPEAKER_01 7:24

And um, and so when I was 12, my aunt and uncle invited me to go to Florida with them, and this is what where I was gonna go. I wasn't planning on going here, and here I am. This is how we witness. They asked me to go to babysit. They my cousins were um three and six years younger than me, and I had to always babysit them. So they asked me to go with them to watch the kids, and um my cousin from another family, another one of their siblings, um, they invited her just because they thought they'd take one from each family, and so she went as well, and she was two years older than I was. So we went to Florida, we stayed with my aunt and uncle. My aunt in Florida that lived in Florida didn't care for me. So she um neglected me, made fun of me when I wasn't in the room, when I could hear her and and things. So we were in Florida and she was just treating me terrible. And um we all kind of we always kind of joked because when I was in high school and I was with my mom and my sister, we lived just the three of us were left in the house. She would send Christmas cards addressed to my mom and my sister. Oh wow. She would say, We have no idea. We have no idea why she was like that. It was so weird. But um anyway, my uncles, we went swimming. And um my cousin was going, she was two years older than me, so I was 12, and I was all excited. I went and bought my own bathing suit, and it was a two-piece, it was the first time I'd ever had a two-piece bathing suit, and I was so excited. I talked my I had to talk my mom into it and you know wore her down until she let me buy it. And we went swimming well with my aunts and uncles and my cousin, and I jumped in the water and I got out and my bathing suit was see-through. And I had no idea because I had just purchased it. Well, my uncle started making fun of me. I was 12. Well, you don't even need a bathing suit. So while we're swimming, they talked my cousins into taking off my bottoms. Oh and so they were in the pool, everybody was in the pool, and they chased me. I was screaming, don't take off my bottoms. Well, you can see through them anyway, there's no reason for you to have them on.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

And they talked them into it and they took it off. They took my bathing suit off in the pool with my aunts and uncles and my cousins. And I think about that, and I think there's two things. Um one is I was fatherless. There's two things you can do for a fatherless child. You can love them and build them up or you victimize them. Yeah. That's powerful. And my cousin, who was my uncle's brother's daughter, they would never have treated her like that because it's his brother. But I didn't have a dad. And so it's like the bald eagle that gets the little the weak little duckling and you know, isolates it and they pick on it. So that starts of where my mindset was. So I asked for it. I bought a see-through bathing suit. Wow. So there you are at 12.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Yeah, and that 12-year-old didn't know how to deal with that.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

No, so I never told anybody. I mean, everybody laughed it off, they thought it was hilarious that they picked on me, they kept my bathing suit bottom, they you know, tossed it around, played keep away. And at 12 years old.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

I can't even imagine that. I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm real sorry that happened to you.

Abusive Relationships and Isolation

Faith, Testimony, and First Telling

SPEAKER_01 11:44

And uh, so you know, I started smoking pot, drinking, smoking cigarettes when I was 12. This was later that that Christmas that year after that. And um my life changed then because I changed my friends, my you know, you just start hanging out with a different crowd. And um, so we had a family cabin, a family friend that had a cabin. And the adults, the kids, everybody got high. I mean, I didn't get high in front of my mom, but if I was there without my mom, I did with the adults, and um, and so one I have no idea why I was up there. I was 14, I went up there to this cabin, and the adults were there, and there were younger adults, and then I I think I went up there with my sister, I'm not sure. But everybody was smoking pot and drinking, and we were wasted, and we you know, just drinking and just wasted, and so upstairs in this cabin was a beautiful log cabin in the middle of the woods, it was 160 acres of woods, and this cabin was just amazing, and upstairs there were seven beds, and so it was just a wide open space with seven beds, seven king size or queen-sized beds or double beds or something. So I was in one of them, just passed out. I'm you know, we just all went to bed, and then suddenly this 20-year-old, the nephew of the person who owned the cabin, crawled in and I was drunk and sleeping, and he told me to keep my mouth shut because if I woke up with the adults in the room, I would get in trouble. Oh my god. Of course, it's always the keep silent, right? Right. So don't say anything. And I woke up in the morning and I had no clothes on and it was still dark, and I could hear him downstairs with the adult that was upstairs, and she was screaming at him, what did you do? Oh boy. And so she knew and she kicked him out, so it wasn't even light yet. I could hear him yelling downstairs, and so he laughed. But nothing was ever said, nothing was ever done, nobody knew except for her and him and me. And um so I was silent. I thought it was my fault, I was too drunk, I flirted with him.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah, you know, you were 14. I mean all the things.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

I'm 14 years old, and I'm you know, I've thought, oh, I'm just this is how I am, you know, I'm like my older siblings. I had seen the sex, drugs, sure, all of that, all of the you know, the adult um or semi-adult people in my life. So I stayed silent, so it was quiet. And I I think about um the lion roaring and looking for his prey. You know, in 1 Peter 5.8, it says, be well balanced and always alert, because your enemy, the devil, roams around and incessantly like a roaring lion looking for prey to devour. So just like that bald eagle. He's just looking for prey, and I'm fatherless. I don't have a covering. Yeah, and I have you know, everyone around me is trying to survive. There's nobody there carrying the you know, there to protect. So at the ripe age of 14 and a half, I stopped smoking pot. That's it. I don't like it. Such a good decision, Susan.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

I'm so proud of you. That was it.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

I'm not gonna smoke pot anymore. I don't like the the you know being out of control and yeah, all that. And I had I just had shame, you know, and then then I had anything goes really.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Because then it's like, okay, yeah, I already did that and it's been done.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

And I think a lot of people can relate to that. Like, well, and I know that was part of my story too, is this has happened to me. So I thought that was me.

Safe Spaces and Wise Vulnerability

Triggers to Glimmers: Measuring Growth

SPEAKER_01 17:00

I thought I asked for it, I thought it was me, so I just kept flirting. And so I had a boyfriend through the high through high school, and he was abusive. I had a couple of other boyfriends in high school, and um and then I got married when I was 18, and um he was abusive, and he um kept me quiet and isolated me. He was in the military, so I moved with him, so it was easy to isolate me. And I just kept my secret. Nobody, I just still kept my secret. I never talked about you know anything that ever happened to me that way. Um and just carried that shame and just always thought, this is what I deserve. You know, I was living in this life, I was being controlled, and I hadn't I had my daughter, which was just lovely, but um I smoked cigarettes and drank coffee and that was and existed basically. Then you know, life just went on, and it just and I got divorced, remarried for a minute, just you know, as I'm dragging my young child through all of that, and then um I gave my heart to Jesus when I was 28, and I didn't kind of there was no kind of in my life. I went all in, you know, and it was everything. Of course you did. Of course you did. I love it. I I'm sure I was the obnoxious friend that just talked about Jesus all the time and what he could do for you. He's doing it for me, he can do it for you. And um, but he really he came to give me life, and just like John 10 10 says, it's on my license plate. My license plate is biozoe. I'm a biology teacher, so it's life, or you can have life more abundantly. In John 10 10, Jesus says, I came to give you life more abundantly, but still I hadn't told anybody, and so at about that time I told my sisters about what happened to me when I was 14. And they had no idea, but it felt felt so such relief, and at the same time, I gave my heart to the Lord. Um four of my other siblings all did at the same time. Oh, and my one my one brother had gotten saved and gave his heart to the Lord 15 years before that, and so he had been praying for all of us, and it was ugly for him, but he had been praying for us all that time. So the devil kills, steals, the destroys. Jesus brings life, and my life when I brought Jesus in was really dark. I just say, like I just kind of plopped on the floor with my daughter, and here we are. This is us. Do something with us. When I told my sisters, it still, you know, I still, I mean, I I just lived life and I I was all in, and I just worked and prayed and loved the Lord, and I don't know how to live outside of his word and outside of the Holy Spirit. I just don't. I just I follow him and I'm obedient. And all of a sudden, I thought, I need to tell my story. There's so many parts of my story, there's so many things, so many facets of my story that can touch different things. And in Revelation 12, 11, it says the the word of your testimony and the blood of the Lord. And um you can't tell your story and not have it touch someone because it's ingrained in us. Jesus told stories in Mark 4 22, it says, For everything that has been hidden will eventually be brought into the open, and everything secret will be brought to light. Isn't that what we're doing? That's what we're doing right now. We're bringing it to light. Yes. Because we hold these secrets and we think that we're protecting, but we're not. And just like what what this space is, the sacred space, we have to protect who we share it with. It has to be safe.

Obedience, Courage, and Freedom

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit? Um, I think that I know for me a lot of my healing journey in the beginning is I didn't I didn't know how to determine if something was a safe space or someone was a safe space. So first started telling my story. I was like, I gotta tell everyone. I gotta tell everyone all the things and all the different route trails and all the all the things, like you just said, like your story can touch. I mean, there's like tentacles off of it, all different directions. Right, like right.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

You can you can have which testimony do you want me to give it?

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Yeah, yeah. Like, do you want to talk about my marriage? Do you want to talk about what do you want to talk about? So we all have these stories, but can you just talk for a second to maybe somebody who wants to tell their story but doesn't have the um the space, the literal space, or doesn't have the knowledge. Like I know that for me, I learned the hard way. I told somebody what happened to me in private, and it wasn't a safe space, and I didn't know that. And so it caused a lot more um pain than it should have. Um, but that's a valuable lesson that I've learned. And I just wish I had somebody who could have told me, what is this sacred space? How do I know if somebody's safe? I mean, is that something you can share?

Resources, Hotlines, and First Steps

SPEAKER_01 23:26

We share with somebody that we trust, but then what if you're uh you know, if you're clinging to other things and you can't trust somebody? And I just I just listened to a um podcast today, and she was talking about, you know, am I gonna share and be mocked? Am I gonna share and be scolded? Am I gonna share and be well, you shouldn't have done that, you know, you shouldn't have been drinking. Well, that's not what you need to hear. And so there is a a a place, and you know, and I've I've certainly shared my story with people that I shouldn't have shared my story. I'm an oversharer. Yeah. And me too. And uh I have um a handful of people that I can share stories with. Um, maybe not even a handful. I would say I have I have uh four trusted people that I have in my life that I tell stories. And um you find your people, and you don't have to tell 20 people about your stories, yeah. And I have one person that I talk to just about everything. I have a friend that I can dump and um she'll react or not react, but she's a safe listener, and um but you have to be wise with your vulnerability, yeah. And it really I can't do it without the Holy Spirit. I can't, because I'll go to share, and it's like a break going on in your stomach. You're like, stop, you know, and it's like what we talked about before we recorded. I don't know if I'm supposed to share this or not. There was no break, and it was really, you know, that feeling that you get, you almost kind of shake when you get this thing, like, oh, I have to share this. Like, yeah, it's powerful when that happens, and and I really felt like I needed to share it, and I felt I feel like this is a place because there is a wounded 40-year-old woman listening to this podcast right now, and somebody did something that she doesn't really feel like it was a sexual assault, but it was something that shamed her. And how do you break that? Yeah, without hearing someone else's story, and without holding on to that and saying, you know what, that did happen to me, and that was bad, and that wasn't my fault. And I am a child of God, and there is this, you know, that there's so much that we share, we dump. How do you not go back there and stay? And you know, five years ago I made fun of triggers. Me too.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

I'm just gonna be honest. I didn't know what it was. I said, what do you mean a trigger? And I'm over here triggered left and right, not knowing what I mean. Triggered. It's true though. I really didn't understand what that meant until somebody told me, and I'm okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

And all of a sudden you're triggered. Well, isn't it nice to know that this happens to other people? Yeah, we wouldn't know this happens to other people if people didn't share vulnerably.

Holding Space Without Carrying It

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Right. And it really is a natural response because your body remembers things, and that's you know, this yeah, this whole process of healing is turning those triggers into glimmers. So you have less triggers and more glimmers, and that's the way I think of it. Like I've had a glimmer of hope, and I'm gonna keep having these glimmers until there are no more triggers. Like that's I don't know if that's a recipe or something, but that seems what has happened to me. Yes. And and I find myself even in a situation this week where I caught myself and went, hmm, that didn't trigger me. And I moved on, and I'm like, hallelujah. Yes, finally, this is becoming the norm and not the default of like I have to avoid these spaces because it triggers me. Now I can say, huh, that's kind of their problem, and I can move on. And that's not being unkind or you know, to speak to the safe environment like you were talking about is yeah, I had I had a hard time learning that I could use discretion and it wasn't keeping a secret. So there's a difference between having discretion and having that discernment that the Holy Spirit does provide you with if you ask and listen. But to know that I can zip my mouth, which is huge for me because I'm always talking, but to be able to close my mouth and go, they don't need to know that and they don't get to know that. This is right, this is for me and for someone else that loves me and is safe. And you know, if you don't have a yes, and if you don't have a safe person um that you feel like you can trust, you know, find a therapist, find a coach, somebody, yeah, you know, that start small and in that your people will grow. Like you will find them just like trauma people find trauma people. Safe people can find safe people. I found that to be true for me. So yes, yeah.

Journaling, Trusted Witnesses, and Release

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Wow. Wow. And the other thing that um I have looked at and kind of fallen to is a I I'm gonna paraphrase a little bit. So in 2 Kings 7, there's a story of lepers sitting at a gate, and they're in inside the city gate is a famine, and the lepers are sitting outside the gate, and they're looking at each other going, We're gonna die here. Well, if we go in the gate, we're gonna die. If we sit here, we're gonna die. Those Syrians over there in the tents, they have food. So we have a choice. We can sit here, we can go back, or we can go forward. We're either gonna live and get food or they're gonna kill us. But either way, we have a 50 50 chance. Well, guess what? They go, and God makes Some sound the sound of their feet, he makes it sound like it's an army, and the Syrians flee and leave their tents and let them eat everything that they want and take whatever they want. Yeah, that's it. But the biggest thing they did was go. Yes. So we tell our story and we go forward. We press on to abundant life. We've shined light on the dark, and so the dark can't exist anymore.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

That's right.

Closing Care, Resources, and Blessing

SPEAKER_01 30:33

And then we take that lamp who's Jesus and He shines it on our feet and we go. And when as long as we're shining that light, that shame and that darkness can't exist in that light. And yes, there's always gonna be something, you know, and it's like the next time you speak to a group, the next time, and there's always like these little things that come up, but God gives you the grace, He's so full of grace, and He holds your hand and He says, You have this. He's held my hand so many times I can't even count how many times He's held my hand. And guess what? When I was 14 years old and I was trashed out of my mind, he was there. He got that person out of my life. I never had to see him again. He was a relative of a really close relative. I never had to see him again in my life. God was there, he protected me. But just like what you're doing now with the obedience. Obedience is so scary, isn't it? But then it's not.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Right, I agree. It's like I'm gonna be obedient until um well I shouldn't say until I'm gonna be obedient and I'm gonna freak out until until it's actually happening. And like for me, I can only speak from my own learned experience, but when I take that step, it's like, huh, okay, that wasn't so bad. And I can look back to that moment, you know, 12, 13 years ago when you told me you need to speak your story. And we went to that retreat, and I told my story to about 30 beautiful women, and it was terrifying until I looked up and saw that they were just witnessing me. There was no judgment, and and I thought, okay, that wasn't as scary as I thought. And I reflect on that quite a bit, like, because that was the first time publicly that I ever really told anybody what had happened to me. And since then, more memories have come, other things have come up, and and I realized, like, yeah, if I hadn't taken that first step, I couldn't be taking this step. So obedience for me is scary until I actually jump off the ledge. Once I jump off the ledge, I'm like, this is free. This is flying, baby. That's what we're doing. Like all free. And it's so free. You feel so what is it?

SPEAKER_01 33:23

You you feel the shame and the condemnation and all the thoughts and all the things until you make the leap. Yeah. And then you go, Wow, Jesus, you were right here with me the whole time. You were right there. I'm the one that had to be cut, I'm the one that had to obey. I'm the one that had to move on.

unknown 33:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

And I refuse to be a victim. That's it. I just, you know, I was a victim. My dad called me poor Susie. That was my my nickname when I was growing up. Oh, poor Susie. And I was always a victim. But it became my identity. And then I got attention that way. Yep. And then, but then it's just one thing after another. And then you learn that there's victory, there's overcoming. You overcome by the blood of your testimony or by the word of your testimony and the blood of Jesus. Yep. It's and there's powerful witnesses. And you push through until the joy that was set before you. And there's so much joy on the other side of being a victim. There's so much joy being an overcomer.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Amen. And that that actually is um something that I noticed in my own journey is the joy that starts to come up is pure joy, like I had never experienced before. Because you're thinking, like, yes, I'm happy. I'm having happy moments. We're happy. This is happy. But but when things are not going the way that you expect, or things happen, like you just said, like we're gonna have things come up. It's still well with my soul. I still have this peace that's not numbness, it's actually peace this time that all this things are happening, but that's just it. It's just what happened. It's just what's happening. It's not a story, it's not about me. This is just what's happening. And and I can't, I can't let that affect my internal being because of these external things. And it has taken me so long, and I'm still working on it, I think we all are, but to be able to sit here and think, this is peace, not numbness. And and it was confusing. And I know maybe somebody relates to this, I don't know, but um to not know for sure when you kind of make that transition, you're like, Am I avoiding or is this just peace? Like, am I just avoiding this? Or is this just peace and it really is well with my soul? And you can go do you, and I don't gotta worry about what you're saying because it doesn't affect me because it's not about me, and just really return to love every time. And I I can't make it up. Nobody can make this up. The joy is something that's just unremarkable. Yep. Yeah. And I probably would have made fun of myself 10 years ago for saying that.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

But there's a peace and a joy that you feel that when you're walking with the Lord and you just have his hand, yeah, and and um you just you can watch the other things. And Joyce Meyer, I'll quote her till the day I die. She said, This is what happened to me. It doesn't define me. That's right. It's not who I am. And so you're going along, and everybody's gonna have trials. Everybody's gonna have it, otherwise, Jesus wouldn't have talked about it, otherwise, James wouldn't have talked about it. They wouldn't have talked about the trials if we were just gonna have this great life and everything was gonna be peachy keen. But there's joy in it. And I do want to say this just popped in my head a long time ago I was single and I went to go have a pregnancy test. And I don't know, it was the days you know, before you could go to Dollar General and buy a pregnancy test for a book or whatever they are. But um I I went into a pregnancy resource center. And the woman said to me, Well, what are you gonna do if it's positive? Are you, you know, do you have a plan? Are you okay? Just wanted to chat with me. She was the kindest woman. I sat and talked to her for probably an hour. And so I want to tell your listeners, if you don't have anybody to lit that talks to you, there are victim hotlines, they're victim advocacy. You could call your local sheriff department and say, this isn't an emergency, but do you have a hotline? Do you have a suicide hotline? Do you have a victims hotline? Do you have a a nearby you can most churches have prayer cards? You can write an anonymous prayer card, or you could put your name on it and somebody would call you and say, Could I pray with you?

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Yeah, it takes it takes a lot of courage to do that, to reach out for resources, and and when you don't know how to be seen, it's really hard to take that first step.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

It's very hard. But just like what Valerie and I just talked about the obedience and hearing this, all of us had to take a first step. I had to walk through the doors of a church. I was raised Catholic. I had to walk through the doors of a church all by myself. I knew nobody. I had been a victim my whole life. When I walked through these doors, I didn't know anybody. I went and sat in the front row and just plopped down with my daughter. And that day changed my life forever. I have no idea how I got that gumption in me. I don't, I don't know. I know it was God, but I don't know how I got so brave to make that drive. I didn't tell anybody where I was going. I just went. And I pray that one of your listeners that's listening right now drives by a pregnancy resource center and goes, hey, you know, I bet there's somebody in there that I can talk to. They're there because they care. They're there because they want to talk to people. And there are so many people out there that want to care, that care, that want to listen, that want to witness your pain and be there for you. And Jesus always has you. And there's one thing to tell your story, and then there's another thing to grab onto the hand of Jesus Christ and tell your story. Because He's the protector, He's the provider, He's the Father I never had. He held me. He said in Rome in the book of Romans, he said I was adopted. He adopted me, he cared enough. And that's how you tell your story. Tell your story in the light.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

That's beautiful. Yeah. Thank you for that. I I know somebody needed to hear that. Yeah. I don't know how I'm gonna get through all of these shows without crying every single time.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

I don't know what I get, I can't really preachy because I don't know how else other other to be than preachy.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

I I have to say, Miss Susan, you are the definition of defiance of silence because you are not gonna be quiet anymore. Or you you haven't been quiet for a long time. But um, I do hope that somebody somewhere, whoever needed to hear anything that was said today, was that they heard exactly what they needed to hear, and um that they will reach out for help if they need it. In the in the show notes, there'll be resources. Obviously, um it's gonna differ where you live, but there's some national hotlines and things that will be in the show notes. Um and if if you can't find somebody to hold some space with you, search us up for the podcast, send us a message, like we'll figure out somebody that can talk to you. Um, so one thing I do want to talk about just briefly before we end, is it's important to know when you are holding space for somebody and you are being a sacred witness, that you understand that you are just merely holding that for them and holding that space that what you've shared was not for me to take on. Um, not everyone in their healing journey is as far along as others. So maybe there's still um a lot of pain being expressed and things like that. And I know for people that really care deeply and they want to hold the space, but then we take it on and then we become burdened by what was shared with us. And that sometimes comes along with um a price tag. So, what would you say? And what's your personal practice when you do hold that kind of space? Because you do mentoring and all these other things, and you've you've been such a beautiful example of how to do that. What is your process for letting that stuff go and knowing um that you can release this and not carry it? Like you just briefly hold it and then let it go. What is your personal process and what would you say for our listeners today before we go to help them release what they've heard today?

SPEAKER_01 43:06

I have two things. I journal and I have two trusted people that I tell my stories of other people. And what happens is I mean, I'm not gonna tell your story to somebody, but I have they don't know who you are. Yeah, I have a trusted person that lives in a different country, yeah. And they have no idea, so they don't have that emotional um, they didn't sit with that person face to face, yeah, and they didn't have that conversation, yeah. And I tell them this is what happened today, yeah. And nobody knows I tell them until people you're your witnessing needed a witness.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

I guess everybody's gonna need a witness in some way, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:03

And it's not like telling somebody secrets, it's just I have to share this, and sometimes I don't, right? But some things I just it's so heavy that you have to, and I have a pastor in another country that I talk to, and I have uh a trusted friend that I you know that lives away. So when I'm mentoring people here, she has no idea who they are. And it's someone where I can bounce things off of, but mostly I journal and I and I ask God, like what do what do I take on and what do what do I let go? And sometimes I hang on to things, you know. Let's be honest, sometimes it really, whoo, wow, that was just really huge.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

And um the other day I heard a story and it was it still, you know, it was more than I ever wanted to hear. And I had to just, Lord, you're you're gonna have to take this because I can't even I can't even repeat it.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

And Lord, you're just gonna have to take it from me because I don't know what else to do with this. I can't repeat it to anyone. I can't, I can't even talk about it. And so that I I'm in constant prayer. I don't know how else to do life. I I and I hope that that helps, but I and I hope that you I know you know that you just it's a conversation, it's a relationship.

unknown 45:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

And with the Lord, and I journal a lot. I have mounds and mounds of journals that I don't know what I'm gonna do with because when I die, I'm not sure that I want my kids going through.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

I was gonna say, um, I journal too, but I tend to just rip the pages out once it's out. I never go back and read them anyway. So I just decided I'm just gonna rip the pages out because what if I get hit by a bus tomorrow?

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Anybody to find me? Some of them I use.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

I still use some of my I guess if you know you wrote something really profound and you want to get it later, but I never go back and read them. So yeah, thank you for sharing that with us, um, Susan. I'm so honored. You are such a gift to me and to all the listeners. And anytime you want to come back, I would love to have you back and with someone else. Thank you. I like hanging out with your brain self. I really love you. I love you. And um just like any other time you listen to this show, if anything you found today um was hard to hear or you found yourself feeling activated and needing some help, please reach out to a local resource or to a trusted friend. Um, don't just keep this all to yourself and just know that you are loved and thank you for bearing sacred witness with us today. Thank you for being a sacred witness for today's episode. If this conversation has brought up difficult feelings, please remember to take care of yourself in whatever way you need. Healing is not a straight line, and you do not have to walk this alone, okay? So if you need additional support, please reach out to a trusted friend, a professional, or a resource in your community. Those resources listed in the show notes as well. Your well being matters the most, so thank you for being here and choosing to listen with care. Until next time, remember that you are loved and worthy of being witnessed.