Suzette - They Need Love

Healing gets strange when the chaos finally stops and you start missing it.

That’s where Valerie and Suzette go in this conversation, tracing recovery beyond “not drinking” and into the deeper work of emotional sobriety, shame, and the patterns that keep us braced for impact even when life is calm.

Suzette is a U.S. Army Veteran, transformational leader, and Director of Development at Save A Warrior, where she helps expand access to healing for Veterans, Active Duty Military, Ohio First Responders, and their families. With more than twenty years of sobriety and decades spent mentoring women through recovery and personal transformation, she brings both lived experience and hard-earned wisdom to this conversation.

We talk about the breaking point that burns everything down, then the surprisingly powerful basics that rebuild a life: structure, one day at a time, and staying close to people who tell the truth with care.

From there, we explore Internal Family Systems (IFS) in plain language, the manager and firefighter parts, and how coping can shift from substances to control, workaholism, gossip, or rumination. Suzette and Valerie unpack the “inside drugstore”—the adrenaline, dopamine, and stress chemistry that can make drama feel normal—and why peace can feel uncomfortable when your nervous system is used to intensity.

If you love someone struggling with addiction, are navigating recovery yourself, or simply find yourself repeating the same patterns despite your best intentions, this conversation offers insight into what may be happening beneath the surface. Together, they explore boundaries, shame, witnessing, and the freedom that comes from letting go of what cannot be controlled.

They close with a grounding release practice and a simple reminder: when people are suffering, what they often need most is not fixing, advice, or solutions.

They need love.

Transcript

Welcome And Grounding Practice

Valerie 0:01

Welcome back to Defiance of Silence, a Sacred Witness Podcast. This season is a field of human stories, and today's conversation explores what happens when we discover the thing underneath the thing. My guest today is Suzette, a U.S. Army veteran, transformational leader, and director of development for Save a Warrior. She has spent decades serving veterans, mentoring women in recovery, and walking her own path of healing and sobriety. But this conversation isn't really about alcohol. It's about what lives beneath our coping mechanisms. It's about shame, control, emotional sobriety, childhood wounds, and the profound power of being witnessed by another human being. Suzette is someone I deeply love and respect. I've personally experienced her compassion, wisdom, and ability to sit with people in their hardest moments without trying to fix them. Together, we explore what happens when survival is no longer enough and what recovery looks like after substance is gone, and why love may be the most powerful source for healing that we have. Before we begin, though, I'd like to invite you to take a brief grounding practice. If it's safe to do so, place both feet on the floor, close your eyes, take a slow breath in through your nose, and a slow breath out through your nose. Notice the chair beneath you. Notice your feet touching the ground. Notice one thing that you can see, one thing that you can hear, and one thing that you can feel. Allow yourself to just fully arrive in this moment. And as always, take what you need and leave the rest. And now here's my conversation with Suzette.

Meeting Suzette And Setting The Frame

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Thank you, Val, and it's lovely to be here with you. Um, thank you for inviting me, and I've witnessed you uh hosting this podcast now for the last year. Um, and I'm so proud of you. And uh this this really is a natural thing for you. I can sense that. So I'm honored to be here with you.

Valerie 2:11

Well, I'm honored to have you here for this conversation. And we were talking before we started recording, like, I don't know what we're gonna talk about. We're just gonna talk. So um so that's kind of how it goes. Like it's a little bit willy-nilly, and um it's just gonna be, I know it's gonna be a heartfelt conversation. And you have so much um wisdom to offer to people who might be struggling, and you've never been shy about what your struggles have been. So with 20 years of sobriety, you've probably seen a whole lot. And maybe, just maybe today somebody's gonna hear something that they needed to hear that will help them just to keep going for another day. So with that, um, why don't we just talk a little bit about how um how you reached that point when you decided enough was enough.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Mmm.

The Breaking Point And Simple Days

SPEAKER_01 3:04

The breaking point.

Valerie 3:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah, the pivotal point, the um I'm done suffering thing. Um I recently I was in uh California and I attended a meeting down at the Alano Club in Hermosa Beach in Southern California, and there was this young man who stood up and uh introduced himself and mentioned that he had nine months of sobriety and then he had some legal issues, and um, you know, it's always something happened and he relapsed. And um, you know, I was just sitting there and I was struck by because it had probably been a little too long since I'd been to a meeting. I I feel like, you know, as um the longer we stay sober, the better our life gets, you know, we get all kinds of opportunities and um opportunities and the promises start to come true, you know, and life gets really good. And sometimes, you know, for me, I kind of waffle in and out of um 12-step rooms probably the last two years. Um, but I've been pretty consistent in my 20 years of sobriety. But just listening to this young man share, you know, his experience, strength, and hope in that moment just took me way back. I was like, oh my gosh, it was that reminder of, oh wow. And all of a sudden, I felt this fondness. I had this fondness of, man, he's in such a great place. Even though he's sharing, you know, like he has no idea how he's gonna do this. He has um, you know, he's he's stressed, he's um ashamed, and um, you know, his pride and ego were certainly um probably a little bit dented, and you know, uh, and it was it took a lot of courage for him to stand up and say that in a room full of probably, I don't know, 40, 50 people, of which we celebrated a lot of milestones in sobriety for other people that morning. And um, I just remember as I listened to other people talk, I just sat there and reflected on what that was like for me. And I, you know, I felt such a fondness for him because he was in the exact spot that he needed to be. And, you know, it life is so simple. I know for me, when I got sober, I felt like I had to fix everything right away. And I had lost this chunk of time that, you know, I was scrambling. Definitely my manager, you know, was was trying to figure my life out. I it's like I had to have this grand plan for my life, you know, what am I what am I gonna do now? And and how is this gonna pan out? And oh gosh, all the things. But um, you know, I had a sponsor who quickly was like, okay, we're gonna work through these steps. And I will tell you, it was one of the most peaceful times of my sobriety. Was it didn't seem like it at the time, but um it it was so simple. Like it was so simple. And I can say that when I got sober, I burned everything to the ground. I my I just burned everything to the ground. Relationships, being a parent with my daughter, and um my living situation. I I lived in a in a halfway house with uh eight other women that I relapsed out of and um ended up back at a different halfway house with the same lady and just all the love I got from these ladies. And um, and life was pretty simple, you know. It consisted of waking up in the morning and making a list of what was it I needed to accomplish for the day. I'm fresh off active duty, maybe six months at this time, because I I kind of it was a bit of a struggle. So it was probably like at the six-month mark. It was November 1st, 2005, and Halloween was my last drink. And um I just remember riding around the city of Detroit on some kind of death wish, and thank God, you know, um God did for me what I couldn't do for myself, and um, because I was ready to just continue to burn it to the ground. But I remember making a list, writing out everything that I needed to do the next day, and I actually made my own little planner. Um, my dad gave me this planner for uh 2006, and um, but until then, I made my own little planner. I mean, I cut this paper, I stapled it, I, you know, and I would check off the things that I was able to get done. And it felt like so satisfying. But really, for me, it took it down to the basics. Wake up, brush my teeth, take a shower, make my bed, um, meet with the other ladies, do a little reading in the morning, what meeting am I gonna go to? Um, take care of any kind of paperwork I needed to take care of, you know, find a job, um, get something to eat, take care of what I had to take care of. That for me was a struggle. It, you know, just restructuring my whole life, coming from this environment of where everything is structured and then burning everything to the ground and having to rebuild that. And and because I'm I always do so much better in structured environment. So now I had to build this structured environment for myself. And um, and it was powerful. And I will say that building that foundation of just staying in the day, even though I want it to be a hundred different places, but really just staying in the day from the morning to night and pages 83 through 88 of the big book, you know, um, whenever life gets a little chaotic for me, I can always return to those pages because in those pages it breaks down the day upon awakening when we retire at night and it just talks about the basics of the day. So um, I was so grateful for that young man that stood up because I really got a reminder, you know, of just how far I've come and and what that was like. And I don't ever want to forget that.

Valerie 10:01

And the courage that it took for him to do that. And I hear a lot of courage in your story too. Um, our listeners don't know what you had to overcome even to get to that place from your childhood. I want to just go back to something you said, just for our listeners, because I don't know if everyone will know what you're talking about. Um, you said your manager was trying to figure out. Um, can briefly do you think you can give a synopsis for those that don't know? Absolutely.

Internal Family Systems In Plain Words

Valerie 10:30

What is the manager?

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Uh one of the things that we learn at Sable Warrior, and also anybody can learn through internal family systems, Dr. Richard Schwartz. Um, you know, we utilize that language of the internal family systems at Sable Warrior. I had no idea until until uh actually in 2023 is when I discovered internal family systems. But um we all carry four people. Our manager who's trying to figure things out, and these are allies, you know, as well as liabilities at time, right? Our firefighter, when we're in danger, it's that firefighter that kicks in. Or, you know, if we're not a very healthy person, you know, our firefighter tends to self-sabotage. Our exile, which is our little child, the little one, that um went into hiding at a very young age when something happened. And then, you know, our true self, which is who we were always meant to be, um, given everything that we already have. So um, everything we need, we already have. We just have to tap into it. So yeah.

Valerie 11:40

Thank you for explaining that. And that's sure, that's I know sometimes I use that language um on this podcast, and I don't always think I go back and clarify. And I say a lot of times, parts of me, and you that's what that's referring to as parts of me. So two things can be true at one time. I can have this, you know, I'm currently going through something in my personal life, and two things can exist at one time. Parts of me want to blow it up and burn it down, and the other parts of me feel a lot of compassion and sadness and just, you know, um empathy for this situation and these people. So those two things can exist at once. So sometimes those inner parts um for me feel like they're very much in opposition. But at the end of the day, they're we're all working together and they become allies. When you first discover them, though, it's like, I think I want to fire this manager and I'm gonna fire this firefighter, and I'm not gonna, they're not my friend because they've caused me all this drama. But once you figure out they're actually your allies that have been just trying to keep you safe. And the reason that they do the things they do is keep you safe. So thank you for clarifying that. And if anybody has any more questions about internal family systems, there's so much information online. And if you're a veteran and you want to go to save a warrior, you can also do that and learn more about it that way too.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Well, and there's this thing of like, if if you quietly say to yourself, hello, somebody said it and somebody heard it. So it's that knowing that we are multidimensional beings. Um, and that was really powerful for me because I just thought I was this one person. Right. And and it wasn't until somebody broke that down for me and I was like, oh wow, I'm a multidimensional being. Like you said, all these things can be true at the same time, which explains the this passion to always want to do good and you know, and get sober. And, you know, um, but at the same time, there was this little self-sabotage that was happening, you know. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Valerie 13:45

I learned last year, actually, and in doing the um IFS workbook, it's a green book that's got it was really, really good for me. Um, and I learned in there that the firefighter was actually um part of the firefighter response because I'm like, I don't have a lot of anger. I don't, I don't blow up to, you know, I don't do all these, I don't show up to blow up. I'm saying all the cliche things. And as I'm reading, I realize that that firefighter is the one responsible for the substance use. The firefighter is the one responsible for the numbing. The firefighter is the one responsible for trying to escape pain. And then I went, oh my gosh, the firefighter is much more online than the manager ever was. And I didn't even realize it. And this was like, I'd been to Save a Warrior at that point when I figured that out over a year out of the seat. So I was like, what? This is crazy. And realizing that I went down this journey of trying to figure out, well, what do my protector parts, as they call them, what do they want me to know? And I realized that this firefighter was trying to keep me from burning out because the manager is taskmaster and like, do this, do that, do, and I tend to overrun and do all these things. And I realized that I would just burn out and burn it down. The firefighter would be online. And I thought, this is exactly why I need to make them my allies so we can work together. And I remember the moment that I was driving and you said it. You said somebody said hello and somebody heard it. And I remember driving and listening to, I can't remember which book that explained it that way. And I was driving and I was like, wait, what? What? And I I will never forget it. I was getting gas and I pulled over and I was like, what? I could not for the life of me realize that I just didn't know that. Like I didn't understand that concept. And it's just been such a cool journey since then. Um and meeting people like you that have the same understanding of this, the conversations can go in 50 million different ways. But if it sounds weird and you're not really sure what we're talking about, you know, we can put a pin in that. And and I encourage you to look up internal family systems and just kind of maybe go down that rabbit trail if it's something that interests you.

Stage Two Recovery And Emotional Sobriety

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Well, and you bring me to another point of, and that's why it's so important to stay in the work, because you know, I for me, 12-step work AA um was really stage one recovery, right? I was arresting, you know, the real active parts of me that were could putting things into my body, right? So for me, that was stage one recovery. And um, you know, stage two recovery is really dealing with the internal stuff, right? And so, you know, I was, gosh, um, I was like 16, almost 17 years sober before I even discovered that. Yeah, you know, um, and and it just elevated me to a completely different level of knowing and being and understanding. And had I at any time along that path not stayed in the saddle, not stayed in the seat and done the work, no matter what, you know, um, you know, even the whole fake it till you make it, you know, till you're you can't save your face and your ass at the same time. Yeah, you know, just just staying in the thick of it, um, more will be revealed, you know, and the literature tells us that, you know, more will be revealed. And that's across, you know, all types of of of spirituality and consciousness. More will be revealed. You know, sometimes we take three steps forward, two steps back, sometimes we take five steps forward and one or two steps back, you know. But the point is that we just stay on that path. And it's just so incredibly amazing what the universe and what my higher power had in store for me. Because when I got sober, let me tell you, this was my plan for me. I was gonna get a CDL and become a truck driver and drive across the country. Like that was my because I couldn't stop moving. You know, I just couldn't stop moving. I had it, you know, I was conditioned through the military. Um, and also as a really young person, um, you know, I always spent a lot of time in other people's houses and places. And it's not that we physically moved, but I was always never in one place for a long period of time. I the the anxiousness of me to always be somewhere else manifested itself in my adult life. And um sobriety is and this looking is the one thing that I've done consistent, you know, um, for the amount of time that, you know, that I've done it. And so um, yeah. Yeah, it's I can relate to some of that.

Valerie 18:58

Like almost like I have this need to constantly be changing something. And if I can't change something, I'll rearrange the furniture. Like it's it's very interesting when I run across people that have a similar, and I don't know if part of that is just ADHD or what, but um, I digress. What I was gonna ask you is, you know, what I hear you saying is that there's a moment that you find out that there's a thing under the thing. So like the alcohol wasn't the thing or the substance wasn't the thing, or but what was that moment like for you? Do you do you have a specific moment or was it a series of moments where you realized that the alcohol or the coping itself wasn't actually the problem that it was?

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Yeah, it was um when I witnessed um cohort 0208 and 0209, it was a female cohort in March of 2023. Um, the cohort I did in August of 17 in Bandera, Texas, was more of an alumni intensive with uh cohort 031. And the women's program for Sable Warrior was really evolving and it was figuring itself out. Um, and the parts of me that did this program didn't do just like all prior alumni, anybody who came through Sable Warrior prior to maybe, I don't know, 2018, 2019, um, and even 2020, you know, there with this this thing has ever been evolving. Our founder and president, Dr. J. Clark, is just an incredible human being of looking. And there's so many others that have just brought things to the table of this program. And and so I didn't see, I didn't see any of this. But the inside drugstore, like that, when I saw that, when when I saw that there was something that happened, you know, to me when I was a child, because the 12 steps for me really, like, I still felt like there was still something wrong with me and just working the steps. Like there wasn't the 12 steps did not allow for this knowing of working through a lot of childhood stuff. It's like, okay, you can speak it, you know, you can share your fifth step with somebody, and in the majority, it's like me too. Um, and then it's like dealing with the now. The 12th step is really good at helping you clean up what's happening right here, right now. And then you just continue on that. It's a daily, it's a daily cleanup, right? It's a daily way of living, which is beautiful. But really, a lot never really gets addressed. There that for me, there really wasn't this understanding of, you know, I've still had some of these same feelings. I still had shame. I still had dissociation, I still was in denial about some things. The drama triangle, I was still, you know, running rackets at per se, like with my family. And, you know, with those closest to me. And so that stage two recovery, the emotional sobriety that this program offered, and that introduction to the, you know, ACOA, adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families, that was a game changer because it explained, it's like somebody finally just gave me a map of what happened. And I'm like, oh my God, I get it, you know? And it would allow me to have so much more forgiveness for myself and forgiveness for my family and this understanding of they don't know what they don't know because I didn't know what I didn't know.

Valerie 22:40

Yeah. And the awareness comes with that. And you're like, now I can see the thing under the thing. So for you, finding the thing under the thing was witnessing other people getting this experience. And so what was that like for you when you were like, oh, after that many years of sobriety?

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Um, I started working through that laundry list workbook. I think in I actually bought the book. And uh I remember having a conversation with Jake, and and I actually where I was working at the time, I was uh at the American Legion Department of Ohio. I was the the executive director there, and um our building is beautiful, and I would allow this ACOA group doing the laundry list workbook, I would allow them to utilize our facility on Friday evenings. So they would come in and set up their meeting, and I that was happening for two years, and I never once attended any of those meetings. And I remember getting a phone call from Jake in like 2018, 2019 when he first discovered this, you know, incorporating this piece into the program. I'm like, yeah, we do ACOA here. And I bought the book, but I never opened it. I never opened it. I put it on a shelf. And um, you know, I left the American Legion in 2021 and moved on to do, you know, modernization of charitable gaming. But I can remember bumping up against people. What really, what was really apparent to me is I kept bumping up against the same type of people. And finally I had to say to myself, okay, like there's this certain archetype of a person that um I bump up against, and there's there's something there. Like I was noticing how I was feeling, how it would respond. I was noticing the inside drugstore because I know what it's like to have moments of peace.

Valerie 24:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

And so um uh something told me it's in that book. It's in that book, it's in that book. And so I pulled it off the shelf and I started looking at it. And I think I attended one of um Larry and Sue Turner's Tuesday meetings. Um somebody, I was I was doing uh ambassador work for Save a Warrior. I'd always I'd been sending people to Save a Warrior since the day, since that fall of 2016. Um, and uh because I knew the people I would send that would come back, I'd be like, whoa, like, because I was doing claims at the time, and I I knew that there was something very special about this program, but um it just it was like a door opened, you know, it was like the key turned and the door opened. But honestly, had I gotten that a moment sooner, I don't think obviously I I didn't, I wouldn't have understood it then. So for me, there's always this point where it's a breaking point, right? It's being sick and tired of being sick and tired. Therefore, you know, it's in those moments that I actually get some clarity because there's got to be something different. I think for me, that's when I'm the most open. Because if I can ride, ride the inside drugstore as long as I can, you know, um, I'm not aware of what is, you know, what's actually holding the problem in place.

The Inside Drugstore And Autopilot

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah.

Valerie 26:11

And let's let's talk about that. Like I'm so glad that you said some of this. I've been making some notes here. First, um, lots of me toos there, but let's talk about the inside drugstore because people might not know what we're talking about. And that is really just the surge of hormones, chemicals that you have in your body that respond to drama. So when you have a surge of melatonin, uh dopamine, let me think of the other ones here.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Adrenaline.

Valerie 26:41

Adrenaline and all of these things that surgeytocin. Oxytocin, thank you. They surge through your body. So when you're when you're having this, say you're having a conversation with somebody and you're elevated or things are happening, or work, or whatever, and you've got this stuff surging through your veins, when you start to heal, uh, you don't get high as often. And you're literally getting high off this internal drugstore and you don't know it. And you don't know that you don't know it. So what happens when you start to heal and you get in this world where there's not this drama and you're finding peace, it feels like something is wrong. It feels like I don't know what I'm doing wrong or what's what's happening because you're not getting that hit from the internal drugstore. And you start to see because you're pulling back from it, at least for me, I started to see it at play in other people and realize they were getting high off of me. And I'm like, this drama is not necessary. And I was doing it too. Like I had to look at myself and say, oh, okay. So the laundry list workbook is just part of that breaking open for me too, where I had to look at myself and say, I became the very thing that I was accusing all these other people of being. And I couldn't see it too. And just like when you said, like, I couldn't have got this a minute sooner, I wouldn't have understood. And I have that exact feeling about internal family systems and the laundry list. My therapist tried to teach me about internal family systems for months, and I just couldn't get it. I could not get it. I don't know why. I just couldn't get it. And um I remember her asking me something about my inner child and who's driving the bus right now. And I'm like, I literally don't understand what you're talking about. And I consider myself a smart person, but and it just made me feel like I don't, I'm never gonna get this. And when I sat in the seat and everything got explained to me, I went, oh, and then it made sense and I saw my life uh lay out before me all of these areas where this internal drugstore was at play. And even to this day, right now, this very moment, even just this week in my life, like realizing, yep, this is still at play in certain areas, and I've got more work to do, but I can also see it and I can catch myself. And that's the turning point where you realize it wasn't ever about the substance for me. I say you realize when I realized it wasn't about the substance for me. And I just switched one substance for another. So if I wasn't doing quote unquote a substance, I just switched it for drama or for gossip or whatever else. And it caused me just as much harm as if I was putting a substance in my body. I don't know if you agree with that, but for me, definitely that emotional sobriety, I kind of rolled my eyes at that because I thought that's that's silly. Okay, it's emotional sobriety. So what? I'm just not gonna defend myself if I have a conflict. You know, like I had all these things and I was thinking about it. And I realize now, like, my emotional sobriety is so, so much more important to me than anything else because it keeps me grounded and connected um to my relationships and to the people around me and to my own recovery journey and healing. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

I think we're on a rabbit trail now, but no, I think it's you're spot on. You're you're you're you're uh accentuating this with perfect language. And I I almost um liken this to are you ever have you ever had a moment where you're driving in your car, right? There's a song on the radio, but you're just like having an Autobody experience in a sense. You're just autopilot, right? And you're thinking, thinking, thinking, and then all of a sudden you've thought yourself into this, like you're having an argument with somebody in your head, and this the whole thing hasn't even happened, right? Oh, like having an argument with somebody in your head because you know, like, well, if they say this, I'm gonna say that, or I can't believe like that person, like you're like taken back. Like I I and this is where like complex PTS and PTS is like so because like like constant flashbacks and memories and like is always so prevalent for me and just the relationship that has with trauma and how the body keeps the score, and just how if I think about those things without hallucinating good intent, right, which is like a reframe, but I don't know that until I spend some time in recovery. Um, but I can work myself up and what I'm doing is tapping into that inside drugstore. I am literally like I can just start crying. If I think about something long and hard enough, I will just start crying. And that's my mind being able to regulate my emotions, which also leads me to the point that if that is true, um, as soon as I start feeling that inside drugstore come come on, I then have a choice. I have a choice. And my choice, um, I I get to decide what am I gonna do with this drama I've just discovered. Do you know what I mean? Because I can start feeling this, these, this inside, you know, these different chemicals that I've manifested in my body, I can start feeling them surge through my my blood, my heart rate will increase, I'll get a little flush, you know. I I will not be paying attention because I'm like uh ruminating, you know, on things. And um, you know, and it's not good. And if if I don't have that under control, I, you know, this is how this is how relationships broken. This is how we blow up relationships. How you burn it down. Next thing you know, I pick the phone up and I start texting somebody. Yeah, you know, or I could, you know, yeah. I just so there's a moment there and that choice. I've I've you know, I've never been so aware of choice uh in understanding the internal family system of and the the inside drugstore. Once I was I'm able to understand that, my life is so much peaceful, so much more peaceful because I realize how much control I have.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Because, and I remember sitting in an AA meeting one time, and you know, we have all these slogans on the wall, like think, think, think, you know, which is upside down and live and let live and one day at a time, and um, just for today. And I'll never forget someone threw the the card, it was on a card of live and let live in the in the center of our group. They threw it on the floor, which is was the format of this meeting, and that live and let live sat on the floor, and I'll never forget. Oh my god, I get it. I get it. Like having this understanding of like other people can be and do whoever they are, and I can just let them be that, you know, I can let other people just be who they are, and I can, you know, I can live and let live. And when that concept occurred to me, that was a game changer. But this was that that was prior to me discovering um, you know, the inside drugstore or discovering internal family systems. So these things are actually pro present in 12-step rooms. It's just how long are we gonna stick around to actually allow that to penetrate our denial, you know, and yeah, and our dissociation.

Control, Boundaries, And Work As A Fix

Valerie 34:33

You touched, you touched on something in that about how much control you have, but also on the flip side of that, how much control we don't have because we can't control anyone but ourselves. So with that being said, what has sobriety taught you about control?

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Um exactly that. It has taught me that um I um that's a great question, Bill. I cannot control other people places and things, you know. Um, which is the first step. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol. And I always say people, places, and things. But what I can control is my reaction and my response to these things. And um, and I always considered that to be like, oh, it's it's the alcohol, or yeah, I probably shouldn't go to the bar or or maybe I shouldn't hang out with that friend. But when it came to my like circle, my inner circle of like family people, for whatever reason, I like exempted them and felt like you know, there was supposed to be something else existing there that was not. And it took me a while to realize that they're in that same category of people, places, and things. Like for whatever reason, I had this different idea of my immediate family.

Valerie 35:58

Yeah, that's interesting. That's interesting that you say that. And I can speak for myself that I kind of felt the same way. It was like, well, this applies to okay, my friendships, my coworkers, the general public, my soft sisters, but this doesn't apply to my parents, this doesn't apply to my siblings, this doesn't apply, you know, but it really does. And it applies to me and my husband and my kids. Like, yeah, I can't control any of these things. And for me, releasing control um was a real lesson in humility because when I realized that that was the source of my fears was losing control. And I would say, like, oh, I'm a control freak, but I just I didn't realize the depth of it. So having like the serenity prayer for me and saying, like, the wisdom to know the difference. Like, what can I control? What can I not? And that that one is me. I'm the only one that that I can control has given me so much more freedom to let things go and not um doesn't mean I don't care that somebody, I mean, I have to work through that too. If somebody's um, you know, behaving in a way that affects me, I ha I have to choose what I'm gonna do about that. But I can't control them. But I get to choose what I'm gonna put in front of me or what I'm gonna allow. Um, and that sometimes can send me into a spiral because I feel like this should be different and I should myself to death. And then I realize I've had this expectation, and all the expectation did was give me um the perfect recipe for resentments, which ultimately harms me. So when I can pull back far enough to see that, I feel like um, you know, it's no longer about substance and sobriety. It it's all about that internal drugstore and that realizing that uh the surge for control is also for me was the internal drugstore because I felt powerful in certain situations where I could control things and realizing, and it's been humbling that I don't have control of anything. There's nothing, absolutely nothing I can control. I can manipulate if I want to, which is also on that laundry list trait. I can manipulate and I can say all the things, but it doesn't mean that it's it's a it's an illusion. Like the control is just an illusion. I'm not actually in control of any of that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Yeah. And I think it's dangerous too, um, because when how that can be an asset and a liability is like, you know, I can turn that level of control into my work, and now I can become a workaholic, right? Because if I can control what's happening at work, there's rewards for that, right? And and that feeds into my people pleasing, approval seeking. And if I can control the outcome of that, you know, um, it's not harmful. I'm working. I'm not, I'm not doing all these other things, right? But, you know, I can so easily um really exhaust myself with that. And then I'm I'm very dichotomous. I'm like way over here or I'm way over there. And it took me a long time to learn that balance. I remember um uh my first like real job, you know, getting sober and post-military. It was with the American Legion. But there was this girl that I worked with, and she would take a vacation like every, every weekend, like she was going somewhere. And I'm like, I can just remember, like, I was such a workaholic because I could control the outcome, and there was a reward for that, you know, and I would exhaust myself and I was resentful at this girl who uh this woman who would take vacations and she was living the life, you know, and I'll never forget what that was like to actually take a vacation. Like parts of me thought I did not deserve that, but but also when we realize the external things that we can't control and then switch that into I have power over my own boundaries, right? And then exerting boundaries um and that tends to upset the apple cart too of our relationships and people because I do have the power to have those boundaries, and that that there is a level of control that I'm allowed to exercise there. And so I feel like, you know, all of these things, there's a shadow to it, right? There's a positive side and there's a negative side. And just depending on where I'm at in my mindset is how I am, I have that thing, whatever that thing is that um, you know, is either an asset or a liability. And the beauty of of that is is the awareness of like, oh my gosh, I used to do that, but now I do it like this. Like, you know, seeing those different things that we had, you know, that I had as a liability at one time, transforming that into an asset, you know, and using that in the proper way. That's not just for me, but it's also helpful for others, right? And those, you know, closest to me.

Shame, Arrests, And Being Witnessed

Valerie 41:09

Yeah, that's really powerful. So speaking about that, how you know, looking at how you used to have it and how you do it now. I mean, I've catch myself doing that too. And it's it's a beautiful thing to remember where I came from in my healing journey and I've had all these growth opportunities. But what I I do have a question for you about about parts of your story. Like, what parts of your story did you used to hide or think that you needed to hide that you no longer feel ashamed about talking about?

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Um, I would say um that. Oh wow. I got arrested. You know, I was like, don't ever talk about that. Me too, yeah. You know, I got arrested. I mean, it's a misdemeanor, you know, but I did not know that.

Valerie 42:01

Did you know that about me? I don't tell people that we're dismantled. I mean, it's it was simple and it's what happened.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

And you know, I mean, um it is what it is and uh and that was a pivotal moment for me. Like that was like, oh my gosh, you know, the that was the thing I swore I would never do or I would avoid, you know. Um I think um some other things are is like just my family dynamics, you know. Um it's it's I I always feel like I don't really want it's not it's not like table, it's not dinner conversation. Right. You know what I mean? Even though I feel so affected by, you know, my family, uh still a lot of times, you know, and I'm healing a lot from a lot of childhood stuff, like it's just not something I can really talk about unless we're in conversations like this, you know? Right. Um yeah, I mean, parts of me have this like, oh, they're gonna because I have these family issues, like they're I'm gonna be seen as somebody who is less than, right?

Valerie 43:14

Yeah. And the reality is nobody's really immune to these issues. And you find somebody in recovery, they've got a family attached somewhere with some issues, or they had a family with some issues. And whether the denial's still there or not, like um, you know, I used to think, oh, I I would, I would say, oh, I had a normal upbringing. I would just say, like, yeah, I had a normal upbringing. I didn't have any issues. And I'm not saying that, you know, I'm not making anybody wrong, but as I've done more work on myself, I realize where these things came from. And I'm like, okay, it was a pretty typical childhood it for me, because I didn't know any different. And now I know these developmental things. Um, that either we're not attuned to or that happened is what caused some of these issues later. And it's okay. It's just what happened. I'm not making this big story out of it. And I think dropping the shame of that, being able to be witnessed and say, like, yeah, me too. And that's one of the beautiful things about Save a Warrior is you go and you realize that you're not alone. And frankly, you're not that special is how I take it. Like we all have stuff. So I'm not that special. I'm not defective and helpless and alone like I've told myself that I am. So for someone to sit and listen to my story and go, me too, and then you're like, wait, what? Like, how how is this not? How am I not a unicorn that's so unique, you know? Um, and then realizing that that's powerful to be witnessed in that. And I think that counts in sobriety too. So for somebody, as we get ready to finish this conversation, I feel like we've kind of gone all over the place, but thank you so much for all of

What To Do In Early Sobriety

Valerie 45:00

this insight. Um, somebody that's just kind of new into their sobriety journey, what would you say to them? Like they're going to AA meetings, but the the struggle is real. Like, what do you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Um, the struggle is where it's at. Like you, if if you want anything worthwhile in life, you're gonna struggle for it. You know, and um the peaks and valleys aren't, you know, they don't they don't get so high and they don't get so low. Somewhere along the way, they're just not as high and not as low. But um, you know, the first five years is building that foundation, you know, that that is key. Um you know, just do it for five years and then decide from there. And I know it sounds like a long time, but it is just one day at a time. And um I relied on my own thinking and my own decisions for so long. Adopting this relationship, like like spirituality is gonna change. It morphs consistently. The spirituality and what I thought my God was when I first got sober is nothing like what my God is today. And it has transformed all along my journey. Um, it's never stayed the same. And as long as I kept looking, um, you know, like I said earlier, more will be revealed. But also, you know, there's a lot of choices in AA regarding like where I can go to meetings, who I can hang out with. If I don't like this group over here, if this group, if I've outgrown a group over here, I go to another group. Like I am not afraid to move around in AA. I'm not afraid to um, you know, I didn't just, you know, I had one, I had one sponsor for a really long time, and that was really important. Like, don't sponsor hop early in sobriety either. Do what the sponsor tells you to do, in a sense, and work through those uncomfortable things where, you know, you may want to run from that sponsor because you don't like what they had to say. Sitting in that uncomfortableness of hearing the truth about myself um was was probably the most pivotal growth moments because I was always able to work through that on the other side. Um, and I was so glad when I wanted to just like middle finger everybody and and beat it, you know. Yeah. Uh and my sponsor always knew like when that was coming. And eventually I would just shut up and just listen, you know, and try to figure out like what is causing me to do this? Why am I acting this way? What is it about this? And usually if I just sit with that, it I I get educated on what that really is. And then and I'm so happy and grateful, like, oh my gosh, I figured something else out about myself. You know, when I got here, I didn't know what color I liked, you know, I didn't know what my favorite food was. I didn't, I didn't have a hobby. I didn't know what I really like to do. I I was just in this whole self-discovery period, and that is one of the most beautiful places to be, as painful as it is, and as excruciatingly painful as it can be, and uncomfortable in the discomfort is is like two things can be true at the same time. Yeah, there can be so much love and so much awareness and joy and peace in all of that discomfort. But if I leave before the miracle happens, so cliche, don't quit before the miracle happens. It's so true, you know, because they do happen. Staying sober for a day as an alcoholic, that's a miracle. Like we are all walking around as miraculous human beings that we were able to overcome and survive the things that we're doing. We don't do it perfectly, you know, but but um those are miraculous things that are happening to us within us, and we're being a part of other people's miracles as well.

Love, Addiction, And What People Need

Valerie 49:25

I love that. Being part of somebody else's miracle, that's beautiful. Um so what do you think people need most when they're suffering? Do you think they they need advice, they need solutions, they need space, they need what what do they need to really? I mean, we can't make somebody hit bottom. I hear you hear that all the time. Like you're never gonna, you know, change unless you hit bottom, you hit bottom, you hit bottom, or s or that pivotal moment where something breaks and changes. But when somebody finally says, Okay, I'm at the bottom. This is what do they need?

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Love.

unknown 50:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

They need love. And watching somebody do that is so hard because there's parts of us that are just like, you know, like I can be like, look at all I've done for you and look what you're doing. That's so not right. It's just that, you know, I have to watch and just be a steady pillar of love. And I have I can have boundaries, you know. Um, but I I have people, you know, circle back around. I have a lot of women who circle back around that I have just watched, you know, I've just watched them on this destructive pattern and you know, and I answer the phone and I answer the text message and I wish them well. And I'm like, I love you, and I'm so glad you're, you know, you reached out and, you know, but I have to be also careful of my time and how much energy I give that. But I always try to mirror back love because I know what that's like to be hurting and to be harming myself and to be thinking I'm the only person in the world and nobody understands. I'll never forget. There's so many people in my path that I would go to in my lowest of low that just opened up their home to me. They fed me, you know, they fed me, they they clothed me, um just loved me. You know, that's beautiful. I will never forget those people. And it was just it was powerful because I always knew there was somebody out there that I could turn to.

Valerie 51:38

Yeah, and I think um when someone's struggling in addiction, no matter what it is, even if it's not a substance of any kind of addiction, you know, um love is is something that it needs to be unconditional and they don't always see that and feel that or they don't see it as love. I mean, there's that side too. And what what's one thing you wish people would understand about addiction?

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Um that there's so many powers at work. I mean, it's it's a spiritual sickness, it's a bio, psycho, social, psychological sickness that's happening. Like I parts of me are like, I feel like sometimes it's a possession. It's a there's there, it's a some type of possession that's just taken over our spirit. People are like, oh, you can just say no. No, because there's a there's a um, once we put that substance in our body, it's obsession of the mind and compulsion of the body. And being able to stop, I mean, the level of shame that we create in that, um, that we just continue to perpetuate because I can't believe I did it again. I did it again, I did it again. And I have to cover up that shame. Like I have to keep covering that up, you know, because I cannot feel that. And that's what kept me out there for a really long time. Um, in a sense of of uh, you know, it kept me actively, you know, drinking and you know, playing around with other substances because I had to knock off. I was trying to knock off whatever ounce of shame or guilt that I was feeling.

Valerie 53:21

Right. And then to come on the other side of that and just feel more, like it's temporary. And and something that's important for people to understand, in my opinion, is that shame dies when it's in the light. Like it doesn't live if it's it, if it's exposed and you can say the thing. And that's where witnessing and being a sacred witness comes in. And it's so important because I mean, we can have these conversations all day because we've done some work. But for the person that's really struggling, or or maybe a family member that um has an addict that they love. Like what do they do? I mean, there's so many different types of advice and things that you can do, but I think the answer always comes down to love and and boundaries, but there's so much work that can be done, and it's so hard to receive love when you're an addict. So I don't know what the answer really is, other than we got to love each other somehow. You know, somehow we've got to. And I appreciate you sharing just pieces of we you there's so much depth to you, Miss Suzette. We could talk forever, but but but we're gonna have to take another time to talk some more, I guess.

Holding Space Without Carrying It

Valerie 54:35

But I just really um we didn't get to talk too much about how you hold space for others and you mentor and you you you bust your tail for Save a Warrior to get the funding so these veterans and first responders in Ohio um and veterans across the nation can come and learn more about this stuff and get free from those things that are causing um our warriors to commit suicide and to really just shame spiral. So your work is so important and your personal life um has inspired you into this work and it inspires me. And I'm I'm hoping that somebody listening today will hear just a little bit of what we talked about and be curious enough to go to saveawarrior.org and check it out. Maybe they're suffering, maybe they know somebody that's suffering. Um, and if they come, they might get to meet you. That would be exciting. That would be exciting. Um so when you do hold space, you know, obviously there's a cost to doing that kind of work where you've you're witnessing these things. And sometimes things bump against our own stories. Like that's that's normal. Like we have a nervous system that responds to all of these things. What do you do as a personal practice for yourself to let go of those things that aren't yours to carry?

SPEAKER_01 55:50

I give it to God, um, especially when I'm like, I will pray for you. I actually stop right there in that moment and ask God, whatever your will is in this situation.

Valerie 56:00

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

You know, may that be done. And I just lift this person up to you. And, you know, I just I yeah. And and and then I just let it go because it's not mine to carry, but I can be um, I can be an intercessory for you, you know, um, and and lift and and lift you up to God. And I do it immediately. I'm like, I just pause and just do it. Because it doesn't have to be this whole long-drawn-out ritual thing, but you know, what we do here at Save a Warrior, we hold a lot of space for a lot of women. And we hear some really sometimes a lot of most of the time, it's just really um horrific stuff, you know, and you know, energy, it's all energy. And so being able to release that energy, you know, um, you know, we do it through the fire. I I sage, I believe in sage, I believe in the power of what God gave us and herbs and all that stuff. And so I will cleanse, I will cleanse my space, you know, I will meditate. Um, I like little crystals. I just think everything has energy. Um, but especially, you know, that power of God and just visualizing, like, you know, I like to visualize actual energy being moved. And that is very, very powerful.

Valerie 57:28

That is powerful.

Releasing What Is Not Yours

SPEAKER_01 57:30

Yeah.

Valerie 57:30

Thank thank you for sharing that with us. So at the end of every episode, um, we like to just take a moment and we're gonna just release those things that aren't ours to carry. And we um had a lot of beautiful conversation today, and some of it's heavy, some of it, some of it enlightening, I hope, for people. But as a witness, somebody that's listening, they may not always know what's theirs to carry, and they're on this journey figuring it out, and hopefully this helped them a little bit. But for now, we're just gonna open our hands, palms up, close your eyes, take a breath in. Take one thing that you can let go of that you don't want to carry anymore. Breath out, push your palms to the ceiling, let it go. Thank you for spending this time with Suzette and I. Thank you for witnessing this conversation. What stayed with me from the conversation with Suzette and I is just the reminder that healing isn't always about removing the thing we can see, but sometimes it's about having the courage to look beneath it. And I want to just encourage you, whether you're navigating recovery, loving someone who is, or simply trying to just understand your own patterns a little better. I hope you heard something today that will remind you that you're not alone. And one of the things Suzette said that stayed with me also is that when people are suffering, what they need most is love. Not fixing, not rescuing, not perfect dancers. Love. The kind of love that stays present and holds boundaries, and the kind that sees another person's humanity, even when they're struggling to see it themselves. So as you move through the rest of your day, notice what you're carrying, notice what belongs to you and what can be set down. Take a breath, be present, and as always, you are worthy of being witnessed. See you next time.