RossCo Golf with Ross Steidel

https://rosscogolf.com/

Ross Steidel shares his journey from caddying to building a successful headcover business, highlighting the importance of craftsmanship, natural materials, and the love of golf. Listen to this one and grab a great caddie-made headcover for your bag!

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Driver off the deck. Driver off the deck. Driver off the deck. You have to put your foot on the deck. You pull out the driver off the deck and put it on the green all the way off the deck. Welcome back to another episode of Off the Deck. Dell is going to join us once he's finished in rearranging his workshop there. Off the deck is brought to you by Idaca Golf. I am rocking the Capri Polo today. Make sure you visit IticaGolf or Itica.gov and use promo code OTD25 for 25% off your purchase there. Again, that's Idaka.gov. Uh love everything that Steve Peering and his team are doing. Ross, welcome to the show. Good day. Happy to be here. I want to go right into what you just said in the little our little pre-call of your wife. You both loop at Bandon? We both loop at Bandon. Yeah. Me, me for a bit longer than her. Um, but yeah, she started caddying a little less than a year ago. She's got a killer personality, and I feel like that's probably the most important foundation of being a good caddy. Guessing physics comes with repetition, but um you gotta be able to get away or get along with so many different types of people, and you can't help but love her. I've got to say that I got very lucky to have met her, um, and even better that we get to work together. So did y'all meet through golf or some other circumstances? No, yeah, much different circumstances. I've lived a couple lives and I met her in my previous. Um we met we met in Seattle. Uh I met her the good old-fashioned way on on uh app dating. And uh, I mean, I'll spare you the long story, but I was on Tinder for about 10 minutes before I met her, and we were married eight months later. So that's awesome. So got it done. Yeah, you and you gotta have you gotta have a unique skill set and like you said, a unique personality in order to caddy. Um, because you're dealing with all walks of life and no telling what kind of bag you're gonna end up with. So when did she decide she wanted a caddy? What did that look like? Well, she's uh her passion is yoga, and uh I I wish that that industry were a little bit more profitable, and maybe it is, but in Bandon, Oregon, uh it's it's a bit of a tough, bit of a tough go. So she started a yoga studio in town probably two years ago, and it's finally got it to the point where it's managing itself, uh, and she can kind of get away from it. Again, probably never going to be a hugely profitable endeavor. So um, you know, to get outside a little bit more and to kind of get away from you know the studio and all of the requirements and hassles and headaches that it creates, caddying is a great way to kind of like hit pause on life, go outside, walk around, meet somebody new, and get some fresh air. And that's you know, it's been my main squeeze for a long time. But I certainly am starting to feel that that caddying for me is is that as well. You know, I'm stuck in this shop all day long for the most part with endless orders, the greatest problems to have, but nothing makes me happier when I have to stop for five hours and go off, take a walk by the coast with somebody. Yeah. Yeah. So have y'all had a chance to work with the same group? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's so cool. That is so cool. And did she learn the trade from you, or did I mean how because you know it's kind of I I would suspect it's kind of like if my wife wants to go out and play golf, she I've been playing much longer than she has. She does not want any pointers from me. What has the relationship like that been with you and your wife? Is she asking for help? Yeah. Uh I you you absorb so much by just observing other people do it. There's no handbook that you have to follow. Obviously, there's a there's fundamentals and a good foundation, which she has, which is a great idea and the ability to be to admit being wrong. Um she would she works with other people more than she works with me. So she gets to see a variety of different people doing the same thing in a different way. Through that, no matter who you are, whether it's my wife or anybody, I feel like your style kind of um comes from you cherry-picking this and that from people who are better than you at it. So sure, I may have taught her um which way this hole goes, you know, where the misses on that hole. Uh, but she's kind of developed her own style um just by being around a whole bunch of people that she doesn't know. And uh, I tell you what, I mean, there's there's a lot to be said about repetition and caddying, even over five courses. Um, the amount of shots we see hit well and not well and and how they react, he just kind of compiled his Rolodex of how to get it done out there. Uh, she does have a golf background. She grew up playing junior golf in Kansas. Um, she's, you know, by never by no means been been an avid golfer uh over the past 20 years. But considering we've been abandoned for half a decade now, uh, you can't help but feel it's in the water here. Uh it's one of those things that you can't ignore. So with my obsession of the game uh and and now what she does, she's she's starting to uh to flow at the current current, I guess would be a good way to say it. That is so cool. So how far y'all live from the resort? Oh, 10 minutes, not even. It's awesome. That yeah, that's that's great. So you caddying at Bandon, you've been living in Bandon for five years, uh, and I think you've you're at least at least on your website, you've been caddying for what, 20 plus years now? Yeah, in the industry for 30 and been caddying for 20, 20 plus. And when did you start Rossco golf? Oh, it's uh, you know, I guess we could go by like when I gave some money to the state and established the LLC would probably be about two years ago. Okay. Um I started hobbying around with tearing up old blankets and sewing them together, probably closer to three. Um maybe a bit more. When when we first got here, we did a year. And that first year was rough because we had been in Mexico, and you move from Mexico back to like rural Oregon, and it starts raining, and we had a dog who unfortunately kind of passed. So it was like a really, really rough like first year here, at least for her. Um, and so after a year, we decided that I was gonna stay here in Bandon half of the year, uh, renting a little spot through the resort. We were gonna reside in Ashland, which is about three hours away up in the mountains. There's a little bit more going on. Um, so when I would be here, I'd be working these five or six-day stretches where I'd pretty much work and then go back to my cabin and wait for the next day. And to pass the time, I would watch Orioles games and I started messing around with head covers. And it was just kind of a hobby to pass time that turned into um some gentle encouragement from my friends, um, which turned into actually taking a financial leap and putting some money into getting the right equipment and buying things that weren't thrifted. And uh and in the six in the past six months, we really start to see things just blossom. I don't know what the right word is. Uh, but the the the best part about my job and I guess my leg up in this industry that I have over people who maybe quit their day job to to follow their passion is that I meet people who can get you in front of the right people at the right clubs daily. Um, so you know, certainly do we make good stuff? I I like to think that that's my my top priority is to make the best quality head cover for the money that you're spending possible. But my access to folks who are members at, you know, private club A, B, and C, I think has really been my advantage on I don't want to say advantage, but it's been very, very helpful for us to go from a hobby to hopefully buy somebody buys my stuff off of our website to fulfilling wholesale orders to top 100 club top 100 clubs. So it's been it's been the past nine months have been unbelievable. Uh we're past the point of like wondering if this is gonna work out. We're really trying to manage our growth right now, um, to the point now where I've I need help. You know, I've got a shop hand, I've got my wife, got my good friend Jay who's jumped on to be my business partner, you know, my buddy Mason who does a loop of lunch. Sure everybody has maybe seen that, or maybe a few of you have. Yeah, he's a bit of a rising internet superstar. And it just seems like we've got this like perfect, like cosmic, like I don't know what to call it. It just seems like everything is kind of falling into the right place for us. And uh, we're excited to see where we we're at in a year. Yeah, that's that's exciting. So, what was the first product? Was it a driver head cover that you just, like you said, as a hobby made and then shared that with somebody or let somebody were just kind of selling them to friends as you built built them, or what how did it transform into you being like basically told by your friends, like, hey, you should do this? It's a good question. Um, I'm sure the first few that I made uh are are to be forgotten. Can't imagine that they were great. I mean, I'm still hypercritical of what I make, um, but there's also a level of satisfaction with what I've created that's taken me three years of knocking an eighth of an inch off the template this way or stitching it this way, or trying to figure out that sweet spot of like whatever maneuver you're trying to do with your sewing machine, like I still see imperfection there. Um But I guess we'd probably have to rewind a little bit in my life to, you know, I grew up in this, I grew up in this old house with my grandfather and his brothers right around the corner. You know, we I live I grew up in a house full of antiques, and and with that comes a bunch of really, really old, neat stuff like Indian trade blankets, like old tweed suits, just things that are a hundred plus years old just were kind of all around me growing up. Um so I'd like to think it had something maybe to do with the textiles that I was using and not so much about like the head cover I was making. I think that people like the look and maybe not like the head cover because it was perfectly symmetrical or whatever it might be. I just think that I I developed a a neat look that people can relate to, you know. Uh I think quality is on the way up. Made in America certainly has its value to folks these days. Head covers are more collectible than ever. And just with my background with, you know, like I said, with with the folks I grew up around and my mom's background at textiles, I think that I selected good product um to put together uh that that maybe stands out against head covers that might be, you know, in the golf shop from day to day from course to course. Right, right. Like the ones over my shoulder that are just uh the dancing logos all over them. Yeah, you you're your your uh your designs and and patterns are incredibly unique. And I was curious about that design process um because if you visit the website, that there are looks like solids, and then is it are are you utilizing the fabrics that you find that already have that pattern in them, or is that something that you are creating on your own to develop that style design and colorway, I guess, for lack of a better word? I think if we were to have this conversation in a couple of years, then me designing some of these patterns, maybe that's true. Um, a majority of the stuff that I make is is Scottish tweed from the Isle of Harrison Lewis uh over in Scotland. You know, you know, I don't want to go into minimums, but it's it's a bit of a financial commitment and you need to have the volume to move to be able to design your own patterns with them. We're not quite there yet. But the beauty of Harris Tweed is there are multiple real retail uh retailers on the island, all with kind of their own showcase. So, you know, Harris Tweet Aberdees is probably the biggest retailer that I use. They've got 85, maybe 90 patterns available right now between herring bones and dog tooth and classic tartans and solids. I can go in there and pretty much figure out more or less if I know what somebody wants, I can probably find something pretty close to it. Times that by three other retailers on the island, all working with different weavers. And I mean, you've got a grab bag. As long as you can create the relationship and establish shipping and figure out how it works with each retailer individually. Um, I've got no problem dreaming up something in my head and then probably being able to find something pretty close to it. And then you had Pendleton right up the road uh in Portland and their Indian jacquards that they create and the flannels and the the you know kind of that old Americana look. Uh I I'm I've got no shortage of potential inventory. It's kind of like figuring out what we can't carry, um, which is it's a pretty it's a pretty good problem to have. Yeah. If you're me. So is is that coming to you in a roll that's 30 feet long and 10 feet wide, or how how does it get delivered to you that then that you take and cut it down to size for the head covers? I would rather have a lot of designs and not a lot of inventory. So when we're getting things shipped from overseas, at least in your at least where we are right now, I'm getting probably three to five meters. Um it's about two meters wide. That's that's how big the bolt is. The bolt is about two meters wide, so about seven inches wide. And I'll get probably five or six meters worth of each design, unless I've got somebody who's special to order it and I've kind of like established that with them. The idea is that, you know, you're looking at the website, you're probably seeing 25 or 30 different designs. I'm looking over my shoulder at the stuff we bought back two months ago. I mean, there's probably 80 different fabrics over there right now. They're just there's so many that's tough to catalog. Yeah. Um, and we're these are these are big big boy problems that we're solving with time, but like what we have on the website is not reflective of what I actually have here. So if anybody out there is just like has an idea of what they want or doesn't see something on the website that really, really talks to them, reach out on Instagram or email. I bet you I've got something in here that is close to exactly what you want. So the stuff that comes over from Scotland, it's folded up nicely and packaged in boxes uh or big bags. Pendleton is four hours from me up in Portland. And we actually just got signed on as a trade account with them. So we now have a wholesale status with them. I can go up to their mill store and buy off of the bolt as much of whatever I want at a little bit better price than than I guess I was paying when I first got started. Um so things, I guess what I'm trying to say is that things are progressing. Um I'm but I'm not buying bolts of fabric yet, but certainly not counting that out to be you know in the future. I still like creating, I still like having so much variety. It still really makes me happy to look at all of these options that I have over my shoulder that I can make for folks. Yeah. So it's just the website's just a fraction of what is out there pattern-wise, even that you even have in your own studio right now. Yeah, yeah. I think uh that that inventory is probably reflective of what I purchased six to nine months ago. And it there is a lot over there, and I think that giving people too many options is is a thing. I think that sooner or later I will once proof of concept is established with direct consumer, which we plan on happening after our wholesale plan kind of comes together, that we'll probably start to do like seasonal, I hate to say the word drops, but we like to release like well-targeted, planned out, like eight to ten designs that I really, really love that have good variety, that are, I want to say limited, but you know, I've you know, I've got thousands of head covers worth of fabric here, and it's all kind of available on the internet right now. And I get an order and I'm like, damn, like I gotta, I gotta cut cut one out and stitch it up. Like, I think it's gonna be a little easier business-wise for us to scale by actually creating like a clothing designer would, you know, some some designs, you know, well-appointed, again, you know, eight to twelve designs that are made with intention, with the idea of creating a good amount of variety that are available for two or three months or till whenever they sell out, and we'll do it again. So that's that's the future plan. But for right now, you know, you can have you guys can have whatever you want. Yeah, and is all this just in your house? This is in our shop, yeah. Okay, okay. And and the shop is also there in Bandon. Yeah, the shop's in Bandon. It's not a storefront, although we do have plans on trying to open a retail location when one comes available. Uh this is a small if you've ever been here, you know how small the town is. If you remember going downtown, there's a lot of fudge and t-shirt shops. And how they make their money, I don't know, but we've kind of coined the term uh bandon is full of hobbyists when it comes to retail locations. So for whatever reason, people just kind of hang on to their shops and they're open four days a week, five hours a day. And we're just waiting for the right spot to become available that we can create our workshop where you can come in and visit us and see us make things, but also take a look at what we make and buy direct to consumer. And we'd also like to you know consign things from all the other great makers out there that I've met through Instagram, whether it be a pitch repair tool or a neat t-shirt or or fill in the blank, neat shoes, whatever it might be. Yeah, yeah. So what's one detail in your head? Because they're all handmade, correct? Yep. So what is one detail in the head covers that most customers don't even think about or really pay attention to, but that you obsess over? The wool liner on the inside. Um the quality of the liner that is on the inside of our head covers is, and I can't, this is not a blanket statement, is oftentimes a much higher quality of the outer material of any of most other head covers. Really? Yeah. So you if you flip if you were to flip any cover for the most part inside out that you bought in a golf shop and paid, you know, a good amount for, uh, you're probably gonna see a polyfleece liner on the inside. And polyfleece is is rugged and it'll it'll last, um, but it's not natural. And uh I I kind of obsess over natural materials. I try not to wear anything with any sort of poly in it. Um probably the stats probably not not uh not living up to that. Um but the the liner that we use on the inside is upholstery wool from Pendleton. Uh so it's 100% wool, it's 24 ounce weight, it is going to outlast it's gonna outlast any polyliner. And it's baller. Like, I don't know, it's just it's just nice to have it's nice to have nice things, and I would like to think that the inside of our head covers is just as nice as the outside. Yeah. Um, that's that's uh I wasn't sure where you would go with that, and I'll I was fascinated just to hear that answer because I was like, okay, that's uh I know that artisans have something that is incredibly important to them in in their craft that the consumer may not be aware of or even know about or pay attention to. And so yeah, that's really cool to know about the inside of that. And it's also great for protecting a club, right? Like that it's it does serve a purpose. Yeah, you'd like to think that wool is naturally insulating and that a warmer face is gonna create a little bit more compression than one that's cold. But yeah, I think we're probably reaching there just a little bit. Um I I just I just like the idea of natural, you know, and I and I can't sit here and say that uh our head covers are 100% biodegradable because the thread that I use is a polythread. Yeah, the embroidery is we've got elastic on the inside, so it's like it's not like I'm I'm on some sort of like green crusade here, uh, but it is nice that you know 99% of our clubs are probably gonna regenerate like are regenerative, I guess, and come from like a source that's not a factory somewhere. Yeah, yeah. What when you first started the the company and began selling the head covers, what was the first challenge that you ran into as an entrepreneur and and business owner with this? Well, I think our our biggest hurdle still is trying to figure out direct consumer. Um, you know, some people call me a boomer. Like I I just I didn't grow up in the internet age and I haven't figured out algorithms. I'm not super keen on social media. I've got my buddy Mason taking care of that now. And so maybe I've missed out on some sales because I haven't figured out like the cyber flow of getting my stuff in front of the right people. Um I guess beyond that, uh grow up grow up on the East Coast, maybe you've got a bit of perfectionist syndrome. Um, I also feel like I've got a bit of an imposter syndrome. Uh I you I I think when I put a product out, when I give it to somebody, they're super happy and they're just they're stoked on the colors, they're stoked on the way that it's been put together, and they maybe don't see that little wobble in the crown that I see, or the fact that maybe the patterns that come together completely synced up where I sew the seam in the back. It's I guess realizing that perfect isn't possible is is probably the biggest hurdle that I'm trying to get over right now. And that there is something cool about something that isn't completely factory finished and perfect. It shows that somebody actually put their hands on it. Maybe there's some value in it, maybe not, but uh you know, I guess not giving up on trying to make the perfect head cover is like a good endeavor, although imperfectable. Kind of like golf, right? Yeah, yeah. So w what what's the imposter syndrome from? I don't know. Um I don't know. Uh I don't want to say that I come from humble beginnings or anything like that, but we're all trying to ascend this ladder to success. Um and I've almost been there a few times in other endeavors, and something has always happened at the end to kind of knock me off the knock me off the stool. And looking back, they were all for great reasons, but I don't know. You know, I I kinda you know, I don't want to succumb to the like the the caddy mentality of like I don't know I don't know what the perception of caddies is, but there's some interesting folks there, you know, some folks that maybe are just getting by. Maybe we're like the surf bums of the golf industry, you know, just trying to get out there and play as much free golf. as possible. There's uh there's this threshold maybe mentally that I'm trying to to to conquer where you kind of go from being the help on the golf course to being a business owner and to like being I don't want to say an authority, but like managing a business and managing the people around you and making big decisions. Like I don't know that takes a certain I think that takes a certain bit of wiring. So uh maybe six months ago I was a bit more afraid of it. I think it's kind of inevitable now that we're this is going to continue to grow. So again, you know, you've got the imperfection syndrome and the imposter syndrome. It's it's a little frightening in the best possible way to like see something start to work that you in the back of your mind right were hoping was going to work and then it happens you're like oh no. Oh it happens. Dog catching the car. Yeah people are watching oh no yeah I hope that was a good enough answer. Like I don't want to I don't want to sound anything more than than grateful and blessed that I've gotten the support that I have from the folks around me. And I tell you what if if everything were to come crashing down tomorrow uh I love my job. And it's uh you're not supposed to compare, right? Compare yourself to others. But I think it does help you realize that you know maybe it I'm not going to be a gajillionaire out here and be able to have take endless vacations being a caddy. But I am pumped to be walking the country's best ball courses for a living. You know? Yeah. So if if that's if that's what this amounts to in five years and I look back and it didn't work out, I'm still happy to be where I am. I'm still happy to be able to spend time with my wife out there while making a buck and you know I put I played the best golf courses as much as I want out here. And it's uh it's it's a pretty good situation to be in. My dad likes to say that comparison is the thief of joy. Yeah. It's a Teddy Roosevelt quote. Yeah oh is it okay I didn't know it well now yeah well I'm gonna I'm gonna continue contribute continue to attribute it to my father. Yeah it's funny my me and my mate Jay were talking on the 10th T just a couple hours ago and uh and we were talking about how that that is an applicable saying if you are trying to compare your somebody who seemingly has it better than you. You know you got a private jet he's got a bigger one you know you got a boat he's got a other guy's got a huge one but we were talking about how it does put in perspective that you know we could be sitting inside staring at four walls in a computer screen all day. And that is the type of comparison that I think maybe maybe affirms some joy um that I've probably worked a lot harder for a while a lot less and uh to be able to go out with guys on their best day who have been waiting a year and a half to play the world's best golf courses and it doesn't always go great but you know I'd like to think that uh if we're if we're making a living doing this it's not so bad. Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things on your website you've got uh and I assume this is from you uh it says golf is honest and tough it's natural and connected to the land it shows many shades of color both literally and figuratively no matter how much we as people evolve we still can't figure out how to one up a golf course I'd like to think my covers bear some resemblance they are simple and tough in their construction wildly vibrant with color and personality and natural with regard to the textiles we choose I feel a duty to share my relationship to the game in whatever sense a head cover can uh which I thought was uh just a fantastic excerpt um from I guess your musings but what is what does golf mean to you uh just in in that regard man uh I think when I was talking with uh Robbie and the guys I I love it so much it it really lets you know who you are day to day um I watch people give up all the time and I watch people grind it out all the time and I think the the same person can be both of those people day to day and it really lets you know what you look like in the mirror. Um we we understand what it feels like to flush one. I mean there's nothing there's nothing better. Um but to go out there and take a few on the chin and either bounce back or succumb uh I think it's just a good litmus day to day. And you know over the past 30 years there have been times where I haven't played golf and much at all and then there's times right now where I'm trying to get out there three to five times a week. And uh it it yeah I think it's kind of transcended being able to explain with words. It just the game makes me so happy. It makes me so happy that this has been something that's been with me since I was a child. It reminds me of like all of the best parts of my life as I progress and you know it's like I said I just I can't really put it into words. It gives me a reason to travel it gives me a reason to create relationships with people. It allows me to make a good living two ways now you know yeah I uh I'm so happy to see it grow because you know I I I touched a golf club in the early 90s for the first time and I played high school golf like a year or two before Tiger kind of busted onto the scene. So it wasn't always cool and it's just been kind of contracting for for decades. You know you back before the internet you would read in golf digest or golf week how golf courses were just closing one after another and and some like golf destinations were kind of like starting to fizzle out and pebble beach and pinehurst were kind of the only game left then all of a sudden like 10 years ago something happened and I don't know what that moment was. I don't know if it can be attributed to any one person or thing um but it like the giant just started to s to wake up and you know you think you know something up until that point and then all of a sudden like you see more people out there and fresher faces and you see the technology start to uh advance and I don't know it just kind of makes me like kind of kind of giddy a little bit to see like how colorful it is out there and how much fashion has changed and how much collectibles has changed and how much obsession there is with architecture now with people and it's just I don't know there's just a lot going on and it's really I thought I knew it for a majority of my relationship with the game and I feel like I'm like kind of like you know like you grew up with your dad and you see him as your dad and then you turn into an adult and you like start to become friends with him a little bit. Maybe there's like a maybe there's some sort of symbolism there. But I feel like I'm becoming friends with the game now. It's not just me respecting it anymore. Um I'm almost feel like I'm kind of contributing a little bit. It's neat. Yeah well and I feel like the the the world is continuing to get smaller. And so so I didn't go on my first golf trip until two years ago. And since then I've been on or three years ago since then I've been on like four more one of those including Bandon. And there's something romantic about those places and the excitement that comes with getting there because it's it's kind of unique. I mean there's other vacations and whatnot where you go and do things and experience things. But golf is very different because you can have waited a year and a half to go play Bandon Dunes and have a horrible, horrible day striking the ball but you're still going to have a wonderful time because you're there doing that with the people that you went with. And that environment I think is very unique in the landscape of just other things that happen. I mean if I go if I go to to the beach with my wife and daughter and we have bad weather we've got bad weather and that's just that's that's just kind of the hand we've been dealt and we'll have to go to a movie or do something else. If you've got bad weather abandoned which I did last February, we're still playing in it and we're we're gonna have a great story to tell afterwards. And I think that that's just maybe I'm going down a rabbit hole that doesn't make much sense, but I feel like it's just a unique experience that is all encompassing when it comes to the game of golf, how you experienced it the like like I have some of my fondest memories of these trips are when I'll walk up to a terminal and I in an airport and see the other seven guys that I'm going on the trip with and we're all about to get on the same plane together to head wherever and that's just I don't know. I yeah it's um but I do feel like the world is getting smaller and because of that you have places like Bainon that are just already as popular as they are just increasing in popularity and people want to get there. I mean I think what Bannon's booked what two or three years out now is that right? 18 months is I think the booking window right now and they've gone to a lottery system which I think a lot of people are I remember when they first pulled it out and everybody was up in arms about it. Everybody was griping about it. It's actually allowing a lot more people to come here because you used to be able to just come here um and book in person with a 12 month window. So if you were here in July and you're on July you know you're you know you're playing July 10th through the 14th you'd show up on July 10th and you would book for next year at the same time. So it was kind of like almost I don't want to say privatized but like the lottery helped get more people access to this place. So all you guys are out there that are waiting for your number to be called there's not eight of you just show up we'll get you out. Yeah we'll tip there. Yeah and I've I've heard that that like it's not nearly as packed as you think that if you're there and as long as you don't have to have the perfect day of back to back foresomes teeing off consecutively or whatever, you can get on the golf courses. Is that accurate? That is if you if you are less than five people uh and even if you do win the lottery like it depending on your number you're gonna get what's left over from the folks who have a lower number than you so maybe and I don't know who these people are who have this idea that they're gonna play this course and that course on this day and then that course next like if you're not married to a tea time or a golf course on a particular day I guarantee that if you showed up you would be able to get out like with 99% certainty. Obviously sometimes Bandon dunes and Pacific dunes are booked from open to close but trails old Mac and sheep ranch come on you can get out there every any day. If I can get out there then you guys could have that tea time. Right right so let's talk about Bandon for a little bit um you've been you caddied there what for five years now? Yep this is my fifth summer what is your favorite track at Bandon old Old McDonald is the best golf course they've ever played. Is it really okay? Why? Because it's classic and it's every template that you want and it's in my backyard and maybe it's not just because the golf course because I think that people's favorite golf course doesn't have a ton to do with like the conditions or the track. I'm sure it's a big factor but like Old McDonald and Bandon Trails are generally empty in the afternoons. So me and all my buddies play Old Mac and Trails all the time and they are the two best golf courses here. I don't think that's a hot take at all if you've if you've played them all more than a couple of times. I'm a core crenshaw nut so like Bandon Trails is it for me. I worked at Papalua for 15 years. Old McDonald is old school I'm from the East Coast and I played old golf courses growing up between those two of them that that's my country club that I'm joining. So if somebody wants to throw something like that together and I make a little bit of money making head covers you can sign me up. I'll be your first number so I loved banging trails absolutely loved it. It was I think it was my favorite of the trip um other than sheep ranch. If I had to rank them I'd put trails ahead of Sheep Ranch but Sheep Ranch will be second for me. So you said something interesting there. So you worked at Kapalua for 15 years. Tell me about that. Well the idea was to play free golf. So I moved to Maui when I was 22, 23 years old and uh when I got there first couple of years I just worked at at a restaurant on the beach in Kanipali. I met a couple of guys that worked up at the resort from going up there and playing in the skins game. I got a job as a starter there uh got me playing privileges two days a week and that turned into me being a starter and then me and one of the professionals that were there kind of revived the old caddy program that they had had when the plantation first opened. It had kind of gone by the wayside for a number of reasons. Changes of ownership uh and also just like a really really shallow hiring pool of qualified caddies. Okay for whatever reason there were like six or seven guys on island that could kind of play and that did weren't like married to their jobs because it's not uncommon living on the west side to have had two or three jobs just to make it work. We created this kind of it wasn't like Bandon where you're getting scheduled days out uh but we put together five or six guys that were available to call maybe the day of maybe the day before to go out and group caddy for resort guests. And you know I'd I had started my catering company which is a whole other story out there. So I had relative flexibility with uh with my time. I could kind of like kind of like move my work around uh to suit a tea time that might show up. So I kind of turned into like one of the two guys that the guys in the shop knew that they could call 30 to 45 minutes before time be like, hey man, what are you doing this morning? Can you come up and take a loop? And I pieced that together for about 12 years and uh the abandon's great but cruising around Kapaloo in a golf cart yeah for 18 holes making a ton of cash and then playing a late evening nine or going for a surf that was uh I got a tough time telling myself that I left that life but uh I'm happy that I'm here in Oregon. Yeah so I played Kapaloo it was probably 12 years ago now and it was kind of a pinch me moment um especially like standing on a green and it was in February so it was whale mating season. So the whales are out there cresting and and just showing off and I'm I'm like like what this is not real like because it is truly a breathtaking piece of property um the the scale of it I was not familiar with until I got there and I loved it I want to get back now that it's been renovated. Corin Crenshaw did it right yeah that was their first design um and I was heartbroken when the PGA tour pulled out of those events because that was kind of like the start of golf season and always getting to see Kappa Lua was just it took me back to that trip. But yeah I I would imagine if you said 15 years then that we were there at the same time at some point I would imagine. Yeah yeah it was I was there just as the Bay Court or the the village course was closing and I started work at the bay course so I worked at the bay course for the first two years that I was there and then the cadene kind of took me between I I would work on both of them but primarily on the plantation. Okay. Um but yeah those uh it I'm I'm heartbroken that the bay course is is no longer with us. Um if they if you were to ask me what my home course is it's it's probably that one. I've played well over a thousand rounds for that golf course and feel like I know it intimately and it was just you know you get to know all the secret spots when you're cruising around in a marshall cart on the bay course all day. Yeah I had like papaya trees up in the and lullicoy vines and just yeah it was I just feel like I know every blade of grass out there and and it sounds like David McClay kid was signed on to do the reno at the bay course but with the water issues out there it looks like that's on hold indefinitely and indefinitely is not a good word. No it's not that's sad. It's not a good word. I hate to hear that um so catting at Bandon uh you get to see people that are thrilled to be there I mean it like I was saying already and we've already discussed a little bit that these people have been waiting 18 months to come play this golf course uh what are some if you have any top of mind stories or highlights from your time so far at Bandon I mean is are we PG rated on this show or how far yeah there's actually an explicit rating on this show. Uh you know sometimes you're far away from a bathroom and uh sometimes you're too far away sometimes you gotta borrow your buddy's towel uh and every once in a while that guy will try and hand you that towel back to carry and it is uh there there's one don't do that guys don't do that once once uh once a towel is used for that it is no longer a towel so it was it it didn't happen to me but it was in my group um guy went off into the to the woods to take care of things and uh took his buddy's towel and came back and tried to like hand to the caddy the stuff into the bag for later it's like no man yeah and yeah sure you get guys that are falling down drunk and you know it's I don't I've never understood getting wasted on golf trips at least while you're on the golf course. Get your fair share of that. But man I see people pretty blissed out day to day and sure you got some some terrible playlists that people run with you know guys that you think that you know and then they hit play and you're like oh Skrillix huh cool I don't know you uh you know but man I I like to think that I see like the best version of people when they come out there and uh you know you kind of c I mean I feel like I get asked this question all the time and I always draw a blank and then afterwards like oh there's this one time um but I think with golf it is just in general maybe in and catting too it's just kind of good to to keep looking forward and not back so I mean I know that sounds super like cheeky and and maybe I'm circumventing the the uh the question. I guess another another good one was back before I really knew anything about Bandon I was working at Kapalua and I was working with these two guys and we got paired with two other guys and we're kind of coming down the stretch on the plantation. We're like can't remember what hole we were on um I think we were on like 16 or 17. So we're starting to wind back down the hill back to the shore into the clubhouse and uh these guys start small talking about bandon and I didn't know anything about it. Like you live on Maui you don't really go on golf trips you just kind of play on the islands. My two guys are like they're like costume designers or set designers in LA so they work in Hollywood and like yeah dude's wearing he's like the bald guy with the visor and like the white pants and the white shirt. That's back when all that was in style and like these guys were you know they they had some swag for 2013 or whatever it was and uh two other guys were making small talk and they're like oh man you heard about the booze box at Bandon the other guy's like yeah we've heard of it oh I heard it is the superintendent or the agronomy guys you know they dug a hole in this that and the other and you can kind of see that the guy was like almost fabricating the story as he was going along just to like act like he knew. Yeah sound cool yeah yeah like I know something that you don't know my guys are just like that's cool you want to know the real story about the booze box and I was like oops so he's like me and this guy actually started that booze box uh you know we found an empty agronomy box that used to be on the right side of number 10 at Bandit under the single the single C pine over there. It's an empty box and like when the first time I ever played it I went over there and signed the book and you know there's like some weed in there and like there was like an old floppy disk in there and I you know who knows what's on that disc. Who knows what was on that disc uh but you signed a little book in there and and uh so there was some relevance after that but uh these guys were like yeah we we stuffed a bottle of good scotch in there back in like 2005 and I gave the bartender who'd been at what was then the forge the steakhouse my credit card number to whenever that bottle emptied out to charge my card to fill it back up. And it was kind of like one of those in you know irrelevant to me at the moment it was just kind of like a zinger in real life for these guys. Yeah um to now like that's I don't want to say part of my day-to-day life but like I know where that booze box was it is no more um but yeah it was just kind of like one of those cool full full circle moments that maybe everything in life happens for a reason get all philosophical about that I guess but yeah yeah well I got a couple quick questions and we'll get you out of here I very much appreciate you taking time to to talk with some podcaster down in in Alabama. You mentioned you've been to Birmingham once but don't remember any of it so maybe if you're ever this way we can get together and and and tee it up. What is something that golf culture in general misunderstands about caddies that we as and I'm I'm probably guilty of it myself we need to do a better job of when we have a caddy with us for the round uh that we're never 100% sure either especially when I mean we're just guessing too it might just be a little bit better than your guess uh I can only really apply this to where I have worked which is Coppaloo is Bermuda so you've got green you've got an ocean break and you've got a prevailing wind. And the same thing out here. A putt that breaks a foot from right to left one day might break the other direction depending on the wind the next um yeah we're it anybody who thinks that and I can only speak for myself that thinks that I don't care uh is wrong because I'm emotionally invested in getting the ball in the whole ASAP. So uh just know that it's kind of like the golf instructor say syndrome, it's like you go to a golf instructor, you're like, why don't you just fix me, dude? It's like, well it's it's not that easy. It's a slow road and you gotta you gotta shelf a little bit of like the responsibility here too. Um I guess I guess that kind of ties into the second point that I make that we're not all dirtbags. Like I've been sober for years uh and I take my job seriously and I love it and I try to be professional and do the best job that I can while being relatable real relatable and having having a good time with folks that are maybe parting, maybe not. I don't know. Yeah I guess it'd be that like that we're you know you see guys when we were watching tour of golf you're only watching like the best of the best that week, right? So you're seeing a lot of putts go in. You're seeing guys drain eight footers um you know never missing the center of the cup. But if you watch this the the bottom half of the field at a tour event, they are missing putts like you're missing putts out there. So when you hit it and you think it's gonna go left and it stays straight or even wobbles a little bit right I guarantee that if you tune into a corn fairy event half of the field is doing that more often than not as well. Golf is hard. Yeah yeah uh that's I love that you said that about like that you do do care. Like you're not just there to collect a paycheck. Like you are emotionally invested in it. Like it's important to you that I have success as a player who has you on my back. Yeah I don't want you to be bummed out with me. Yeah right I want the ball to go in. I want you to fist bump me you know so other than old Mac what's your what's your favorite and then trails what's your favor uh third I guess third favorite course at Bandon Dunes Oh if I uh I'm gonna I'm gonna rip off my buddy Rennie uh who just retired from Bandon we'll call it retirement um and he moved on after seeing this place open uh is that you know you can insert XY and Z as your favorite course course at Bandon but if I and I will have one last round at this resort and if that's the case I would like to play a sunset round at the OG at Bandon Dunes. Yeah there's something spiritual about that place uh and about finishing up when the sun's hitting the horizon on 16 green and I can only hope that my last round is is something like that here. Yeah. So I I played it um it actually one of my favorite stories we had um this was actually packed dunes but it's one of my favorite stories about Bandon and I think it's um just what Bandon is um we had a Marshall behind us. I think we were the last group on the course and we had a marshal driving a cart and he kept he was just consistently staying a hole behind us and it was starting to get dark. It was cloudy so we didn't really have a sunset but it was starting to get dark and about the time it it the sun fully set and we couldn't really see he went driving past us in his cart and pulled up to the green and turned on his lights on his cart and lit up the putting green. Yeah. And I was just like because we were thinking just because of other places we've played golf and whatnot we were like okay we're about to get in trouble. We're about to get kicked off and no it was actually the exact opposite that guy wanted to make sure we were able to finish our last hole with light. And it was one of the coolest things and I will never forget that moment and it's it's I think about that trip so fondly and love band and just because of that tiny little touch. That guy didn't have to do that. He didn't have to make sure that we could finish out our hole and actually be able to see the cup and where the hole was the ball was going I mean it just that was a special special moment for me. Yeah it it is the real deal dude and anybody who's like listening or watching this that is I can't imagine anybody's going back and forth on it. This is the most amazing place I've ever seen golf golf wise um everybody's pumped about golf and uh anybody who comes here is pumped about golf so it's only it's only natural that uh things go well when you come here. Nobody has a bad time here. And if they do it's their choice. Right. What's the worst weather you've played in there oh I've zambonied uh a putting line through uh hail standing hail um I don't know if it was in January but I think it was like my first winter here I just remember being on 14 at Bandon it's a short dog like right par four and I mean it was crappy all day but it was just kind of like windy and cold and it started to get dark and we were kind of getting these bands of showers come through. I just remember like it's starting to gush 30 out of the south and you just started to feel like little pins and needles in your back through your three layers of rain gear. I just remember standing there with my hood up kind of like shoulders in back to the weather just like I don't know like I felt like I was in the wild you know trying to survive right and it stopped and I mean nobody quits. I'd have never seen like I mean I've we've we've walked off after like nine or 13 or whatever. Like I've had a couple guys get soaked so bad they're like all right we're good here. But I've never had anybody be like we're not playing today on the first T. Like everybody goes out. So like 14 you're out there we're you know we're either going to walk in through the junk we're gonna play golf in through the junk and so we approach shots somehow on to 14 and I just remember looking at the green and it is just like little tiny white snowballs everywhere like little tiny hailstones and I got a 20 footer I can't remember what I used. I don't know if it was my towel or what but I like kind of wiped a line through all the white and had the guy kind of putt down the track and it was uh yeah it'd be like that sometimes but tell you what January can also be 58 degrees no wind and sunny and beautiful that's the beauty of the coast is like it can always be nice uh but sometimes it's not yeah yeah I had that's how mild weather was when I went in January is we had a few days I experienced almost what you just described of having to use like become a human Zamboni and then also had 58 and sunny and yeah can't wait to get back. Um and hopefully I'll get to have you on my bag or or even get to tee it up with you. I would love to get some to spend some time with you next time I'm out there because hopefully it's gonna be sooner rather than later. Yeah let's do the latter I don't know how many uh I don't know how many years the dude's got left caddy and uh physically I think I could do it for about 10 more years but there's just not enough hours in the day anymore. I mean this shop just stays stays full so uh sooner or later I can just create the time where I can work on playing more than watching other people play. Sounds a bit better to me. Let's do it let's do it. Ross thank you for for taking time to come on the show really appreciate it. Uh this is a fun chat for Josh or excuse me for Ross uh I am Josh Decker and this has been another episode of Off the Deck