Off the Deck
Golf is so much more than the scorecard and those birdies that are rarely made. It's about the people you meet along the way. From lifelong bonds to unexpected fast friends, Off the Deck highlights the lives and stories built through the game of golf.
Off the Deck
Squid Designs with Jason Calamaro
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In this episode, Jason Calamaro shares his journey from caddying at Bandon Dunes to creating bespoke golf signs that have gained international recognition. Discover the challenges, craftsmanship, and entrepreneurial spirit behind his unique work and how passion can turn a side hustle into a thriving business.
https://www.squid-designs.com/
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Driver off the deck. Driver off the deck. The driver off the deck.
SPEAKER_01And get that thing down and flight and running.
SPEAKER_00You have to put your foot on the gas. You pull out the driver off the deck and put it on the drain all the way off the deck.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to their episode of Off the Deck. Off the deck is brought to you by Ideca Golf. It is like 97 degrees here in Birmingham right now. And I'm still wearing their Sebastian hoodie because it's that light and breathable. And it's just a great piece. Make sure you use promo code OTD25 when checking out at ideca.gov. It's Id a K A.gov. Make sure to check out their Sebastian Hoodie Capri Polo. Their golf gloves are incredible, but we appreciate them sponsoring the show. Jason Calamaro, welcome to Off the Deck. Thanks for taking time to come on and chat. Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Um, I am in awe of your work. Um, so for the listeners, why don't you do a brief introduction of who you are, the company you run, and then I have a long list of questions about your product, how you got to this point. Also wanted to learn about your history with the game of golf and and all that. But first, who is Jason Calamaro?
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, um, I am the owner and operator of Squid Designs. So yeah, that's pretty much uh born and bred in the Northwest, but yeah, started this company four years ago or five years ago or something like that. I don't know, it's all blending together. Um, but yeah, uh former I've been in the golf industry pretty much my entire life. Um former caddy at Bannon Dunes for 10, 11 years, and uh body gave out, so I needed to figure out a way to uh I just needed something else. I needed a side project uh while I was hurt and yeah, and burst squid designs. Kind of a definitely a COVID uh business like many of the others, but uh yeah, just kind of started small and and here we are.
SPEAKER_01So and and for the listeners who are listening and not actually seeing the visual on YouTube, describe what it is that you construct um for clubs all over the country.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um we basically make um uh golf signs for uh you know your office, man cave, um, you know, souvenir type of stuff. Um just something different that's not, you know, because everybody goes to these special places and everybody gets a hat or a polo or something like that. Um, and I just wanted to um give people something else um that's handmade and yeah, um just collectible type of stuff. Um we mainly just do signs, but we also do like magnets and those kind of things, and then we're dabbling in some other stuff. But yeah, mostly just um signs that you can put up in your man cave or shop, or you know, just give you some other options when you go to these special places, so you know you don't have to add another hat to your collection of of a hundred already. Um, yeah, just something something different and you know, handmade, made in the USA. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we've had Ross on from Rossco Golf.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure you know him from your days at Bandon. I don't actually. Um, I've I've talked to him on the phone um when he was getting going or starting his business. He reached out and was like, hey, do you mind jumping on a call? And I said, Absolutely, no problem. Um, yeah, so I got to talk with him a little bit. Never actually met him in person, but I'm actually going down to Bandon in a couple weeks to dust off the old looper gear and uh and work for a couple of days just for some VIP friends of mine um that uh convinced myself and my wife that I could come down and uh yeah, so I'm gonna I'm gonna swing over and hopefully get to meet him and see his shop and just yeah, see what he's got going on. It's uh it's pretty cool to see.
SPEAKER_01So you mentioned that you were in the golf industry forever, basically. Yeah. Tell me tell me about the early days. When did you fall in love with the game? Your introduction to the game.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Um, well, my brother got into the game um pretty much when I was like probably still in elementary school or something like that. Um, but yeah, it was more of just like, hey, you know, my older brother John, he's going to the golf course, you gotta bring Jason along with you to babysit, basically. Um, but I kind of fell in love with it there, and uh I pretty much played all sports growing up, but I was always just a little too small for everything. Like I could I was good at everything, but just once the point where everybody got bigger, I kind of got left in the breeze uh with that. Um but yeah, I was just I just I loved it because I could do it by myself. I didn't need anybody, I didn't need a team, I didn't need anybody to throw the ball with. Um, not that I didn't have people around to do that, but it was just I just enjoyed that part of it. And um, and then me and my brother, we we were lucky enough to grow up on five acres, so we built um like six holes around our property, so little like 70-yard shots, and so yeah, I get home from school and I just go in the backyard and hit wedge shots and you know, chip it up there, and uh just loved it, and then got a job um at a local course down the street, and then um so that helped with the playing privileges and all of that. And uh, and then when my brother got into it, he made the high school golf team and lucky enough to um I actually knew, grew up with the um the coach of the team, so he would invite me along when I was too young to play on the team, but uh would invite me to different things, and then uh yeah, it was just it was just one of those things, you know, golf is just once you get hooked, it's it's you just can't get it out of your system. So yeah, yeah. And then um, and then when I graduated from high school, I moved down to Arizona where you could play year-round, which was amazing. So I did the uh like a PGM program down in Arizona to be like a golf pro and doing that whole thing. And just uh so I was working at two facilities and or one facility and then I got another job at the other. I'm constantly working, but um, yeah, I just kind of realized really quick that it wasn't uh wasn't gonna be my pathway and just got in got super burnt out really, really fast. Um and then uh I was flipping through a golf week magazine and I came across an ad for Bandon Dunes, and the next morning I was like, holy crap, this place looks amazing. Went to work the next day and I showed my buddy the golf week and I was like, dude, we gotta go here. So um so we made a made a plan for that summer or that April actually um to do a little golf trip and um and we went to Bandon and I just stepped on property and just could not believe it. Just I mean, it you've been to Bandon, it's it's just has such a cool vibe and a cool energy, and I just I'd never experienced anything golf-wise like that before. And so when I got back to Arizona, it was like, okay, I I need a change, I need a change of scenery, and and uh luckily I knew a guy out there, and so I reached out to him, and he um got me in touch with the caddy master, and then so uh went out there in like February or something like that um to train, and then I was back out there in April, and then that was basically my home for 10 years.
SPEAKER_01That's incredible. So are and something I've wondered, and I've had like I said, Ross has been on. I feel like I've had another caddy or two on, or someone else who's cadied at Bandon. Are those jobs uh challenging to get?
SPEAKER_02It was back in the day. Um especially when I got in there, you definitely had to have a reference, you had to have somebody that um kind of put your name at the top of the list type of thing. Now, nowadays, from what I hear, it's a lot easier just because they need people so badly. I think at the time there was probably a little over 200 caddies there. Um, and now I believe it's north of 500. So um so it's just yeah, it's just a it's a massive machine, and how it all works, I have no idea. Um Katie, the uh caddy master there now is done a great job. She's been there for a number of years, and we were all super stoked when she got the bump to to be the caddy master. But yeah, it's uh it's a crazy place. How it all works, I don't know, but you know, it's Disneyland, so everybody's just stoked to be there. And you know, it's uh it's a really, really cool special place.
SPEAKER_01What's your fondest memory from looping there?
SPEAKER_02Oh man, there's too many to mention. Um it's just just getting to see the ocean every day um is definitely something that I miss. Um just yeah, the the guys that you know, because once you once you get in there and you start working, you start kind of working with the same group of people or the same like you know, 50 guys or whatever. Um so you definitely build a friendship with those people. And um yeah, just the the people that you get to meet, you know, with the groups, and lucky enough with me, like I got to I got to the point where it was mostly I'd say 90% requests from you know people that I've cadied for before or um I was lucky enough to caddy for the no lane up guys um in like 2018 and they were nice enough to mention my name on the podcast. So once they did that, then it just took off from there as far as requests go. So, you know, instead of like a couple of months, it was like a couple a week. So I had to start cherry picking ones like you know, this you know, this it was all based on rounds. So it's like if they're playing a ton of rounds of golf, like that's the one I'm going with. Um, but then it got to the point where I started to know majority of the people that would reach out and um and requests, and you know, it's it's it's like a reunion every week, you know, and they're just happy to see you, happy to see the resort. And, you know, it's cadding's funny, especially when you first meet somebody, it's like it's like a it's like an awkward first date. You're trying to win them over pretty quickly because if you make a mistake early, then they won't uh not that they don't believe you, but there's a little bit of a question mark. So but when it's a request, it's like that part of it you don't have to worry about, and you can just get back, you know, same joke, same stories, and you know, they're bringing up stuff from last year and all of that. So um towards the end of my tenure, uh I was majority of my jobs were that, which was which was really nice and you know grateful that people still wanted me to walk, you know, show them around the property, even though they've been there for you know, six, seven, ten, you know, as long as I've been there.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, well, and so so when I went, uh I guess last January, um Gaga. Oh, January. Yeah, yeah. It was yeah. Um how was the weather? We had a few great days, and then one day that I walked off of Pack Dunes, um it was bleeding sideways into my face. Yeah, um, but that's a trip. Yeah, in advance of that trip, a friend of mine was like, Hey, I had a great caddy, you should use him. And so he looped me in on a group text with him, and I still have Jeremy Moser's number. And I reached out to Jeremy and was like, Hey, uh, you came recommended to me from Chris Sizemore, so let's let's do this. And so I had him for three loops. And yeah, there's just something about the the consistency and and having that person for the whole week, yeah, kind of there, like and and like really going through it with you too, right? Like it's not always sunshine and rainbows out there, it can be especially with the weather and then also just bad golf on occasion. Um, so yeah, I I had a great time with him. He was a great caddy. Um, but yeah, it's uh that's a that's a cool experience. So so you said something your body broke down. Was there an accident or was it just a well no?
SPEAKER_02So basically my schedule would be I would work two weeks in Bandon, then I would go up to Seattle for a week to uh see my daughter. So um, so I would do that drive, I believe it was eight or nine hours. Yeah. So I would do that every two weeks. So when I was in Bandon, I would work every single day and really push the envelope for that, and then I would drive up. So I think it was a combination of cadding and sitting for that nine hours um that really uh that kind of broke me. So basically I was I was dealing with some sciatic issues on my left side, and it still kind of flares up once in a while. Luckily, it's not even close to what it was. But um when we so we got shut down for COVID, and then when I got back to work, um, I think it was a couple of months um that we were shut down, I just really hit the ball rolling and just pushed it too hard basically. Um and yeah, by the end of the season, I like my little studio apartment or you know, in employee housing, I could barely walk from my bed to the bathroom without stopping. Um because it would just flare up and I I just couldn't move basically. Um so yeah, so basically when I was that um that fall where I had to cut my because I always cut my season off or used to cut my season off at like usually around Thanksgiving time, um, but I cut it off in like late October and went up to Seattle, which is what I normally do, and was just going through therapy and going through rehab basically of just trying to figure this thing out. Because unfortunately with sciatic, it's not it's not a one uh one size fits all type of thing. It could be this, it could be that, and which was a bit frustrating. Um, but it basically just in the meantime, I was just trying to figure out like, okay, like what do you enjoy doing? What's what are you passionate about? And I had dabbled in some woodworking stuff. I would do stuff in the wintertime, just side projects just to keep busy. Um, and I actually made a um a coffee table for the no laying up guys for their Sweetens Cove house. So I thought back to see that coffee table. There you go.
SPEAKER_01I know I know when you're talking about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I thought back to that project because I actually got to do that during COVID, which was a bit of a lifesaver just because the world was ending and nobody knew kind of what was going on. So I thought back to that project and how much fun it was and how I was able to just create not you know something from nothing, basically. Um, so I thought back to that, and then um I was like just scrolling the internet, scrolling the internet, just trying to figure just trying to find something to do because I just I needed it for my mental psyche um just because I was broken and didn't know what I was gonna do, and thinking that I would get back to cadene, but um just needed something in the meantime. And so I made these signs, I came across these wooden signs online. I I think it was on Etsy or something, but came across these wooden signs and was like, well, that doesn't seem that hard to make. And then I made some for uh for Tron and I you know made like seven signs for their sweetness cove house, sent them off to them, and um after a couple weeks he uh he I reached out to him actually, but he opened them, was like, hey, these are really sweet, let's jump on a call. So we jumped on a call and then he was like, Hey, we should sell these on our online store. And I was just like, Okay, cool, uh, sure. And uh, you know, super excited. Yeah, we could do that. It's super excited, but then I got off the call and was just like, I don't how am I gonna do this? Like, I you know, I only made a couple and it took took a week or so, and like I I just I had nothing in place on how to do this, but it's just kind of been this whole thing of just saying yes and then just figuring it out on the way. Um, so I did that first order, and then um yeah, uh when I was doing that, I thought about Banding Dudes and made some samples for them, and luckily had a good relationship with uh Chad Turner, the former merchandiser there, and reached out to him and was just like, hey, I'm doing this thing. Would you be interested in taking a look at these samples? And uh and so I had my meeting with Chad, and he really liked the idea, which was crazy, and then put in an order, and it was just like okay, I uh I I guess we might have something here. Not not sure what it is, but we got something.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Well, I want to backtrack a little bit because so I have had my own issues with sciatic back troubles. I had surgery uh on my low back in 2016. Oh, wow, okay. And that is a pain to you kind of touched on it that I would not wish on my worst enemy. No, like it is debilitating, and and then like also as a man, like you and I are both healthy looking guys. I still like if somebody needs help moving something, I'm like, yeah, I'm I I'm sorry, I'm out on that. And and yeah, yeah, it's kind of a it's a not necessarily embarrassing, but it's like, yeah, hey, there's a reason why I'm not helping you move that dresser because if something goes a little wrong, I'm gonna be laid up in the bed for the next three weeks. Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and for me, like I could deal with the pain, but for me, like the the sleeping was the worst part because I couldn't I couldn't I couldn't actually fall asleep like fully. I would probably get like 45 minutes of sleep at a time. So it was just yeah, the amount of times I would just be like laying on the floor, just like praying for death, basically, just like I'm good, take me, because this is uh this I don't I don't want to live like this. And yeah, luckily I didn't have to do surgeries um or anything like that, and I was really close to getting like a few injections and those kind of things, but um, yeah, luckily between the the PT work and the stretching and doing all that, it kind of just resolved itself, which is kind of what they said was gonna happen. But yeah, like you said, like I wouldn't wish that pain on anybody because like literally couldn't do anything, and it was just you know, especially for a guy who carries things and walks, uh walked for a living at the time, it was just like yeah, this is this is brutal, and it's super common, especially well, men especially. Um, it's amazing how many guys go through that and you just don't hear about it. But yeah, the more I talked about it, the more people were like, Oh, yeah, I've I've had that, or I've had you know dealt with that kind of pain. And yeah, it's it's snow cakewalk, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, and and I'm glad you mentioned that about the stretching too, and all of a sudden this has turned into a uh back issue podcast, and that's fine. But like the stretching, I know that sounds kind of silly at first when you hear about it, but it makes a tremendous difference.
SPEAKER_02So for anybody who's listening and having back problems, stretch, like it just doesn't do the exercises that they tell you to do, because it does it definitely makes a difference. You kind of feel like an idiot doing them, but I mean, you'll do anything to take the pain away. I mean, be you know, I I tried everything from you know ibuprofen to ev all the time to C B D gummies to even little weed gummies just to help me, you know, get through. It's funny, like if you watch Tor Sauce when uh when they did the Bandit episodes, if you watch me closely, you'll see that I am not comfortable. I am it is I am in a lot of pain.
SPEAKER_01And so you're already in the pain that it already happened.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, it was starting to get wor like when I was doing it, like I could the first couple holes of a round would be pretty painful, and then it would loosen up, and then I would be fine, and then it would get worse. You know, basically once I stop moving, then it would get worse. But yeah, if you watch if you watch Tour Sauce, it's uh and watch me walk, it's it's uh I'm in a lot of pain. Yeah, even though I got a smile on my face just because I'm enjoying the time, but yeah, it's uh yeah, God. I yeah, I don't want to go back to that.
SPEAKER_01Right. Okay, so you you make this and and I I want to learn more about the actual process because the level of detail in your signs, I mean you you were able to replicate the most intricate logos in the golf space. So are you using a laser? Like the the colors and everything are perfect, right? Right. How how do you replicate these logos with with such precision?
SPEAKER_02Uh well it's not easy, I will tell you that. Um it's getting easier. Um, but basically, like in the early days, it was all vinyl. So it was all stickers, basically. I had a machine that would print them off, and it was very limiting because I could only do certain I could only do like one color of a logo, which worked for a few things, but not so much for everything. But I switched um I switched to plywood, like 3D raised plywood, um, probably three years ago. And basically it's just a puzzle piece. So you have to cut all the pieces, you know, cut cut the logo and cut everything out, and then you have to color, you know, spray paint pretty much all the all the detail, and then you just put it together like a puzzle, which is extremely time consuming, um, as you would imagine. Um, but I've got a New system now where I have a outsourced person that does all my logos for me. So it's still the same quality, see the same everything, but I don't have to do all the detail. So she does all that stuff. And then I can just put the rest of it together. But yeah, it's uh it's been a bit of a trial and error. I mean, I've never been one to shy away from hard work, um, you know, to my detriment a lot of times. But um, yeah, it's it's basically just like putting a puzzle together. That's pretty much the best way I can describe it. And some logos are super easy and some are incredibly difficult. Um, but you know, but at the end, but the final product is is always worth it. But yeah, I'm I'm constantly finding ways to make things faster, make things better, and um just easier, you know, because uh as you can imagine, it's very, very time consuming.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and well, so there are a few that are on the shelf behind you. I see the tree farm, I see the walker cup. What is timeline start to finish? And I understand it's not gonna be something you sit down and probably knock out all at once, but what is the total amount of time that goes into one of these being constructed?
SPEAKER_02I would say excluding like drying time, I would say it's probably 20 minutes, I would say, of of construction, but it's just a lot of steps that you have to take. And and that's another thing I'm constantly thinking about is how to eliminate steps or uh find a way to just um be able to just knock them out quicker because it's all done by hand, it's all you know, so which I hope comes out in the final product, or at least people but you know, most people don't either appreciate it or care. Um, they just want the final product. Um, but yeah, I would say it's somewhere around 20 minutes, I would say, overall, to take, you know, a raw piece of wood and some plywood and throw it all together and and do that. But yeah, there's I mean, there's there's probably 15 steps that it takes to get to that point. But um, you know, it's easy to do one, but it's really difficult to do hundreds.
SPEAKER_01So is that something you have like a template that gets or or what how what kind of mechanism is powering the saw for I mean, because like that tree farm logo, that is incredibly I guess the delicate logo because of all the little notches for the tree.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's I I have I have a large industrial laser machine um that cuts everything out. Um, and then I I have a wood um distributor basically. So he sends me all the raw pieces, and then we go through the steps of you know staining the wood and then painting the wood and then weathering it and then sealing it, and then you know, putting the keyholes on the back, and then and then it's like, okay, now you have a piece, and now we you know, then we go through the process of cutting all the logos and and doing all that and painting them and getting them ready, and then it's time to stick. So we use like the the highest grade glue that you could possibly have, um, just so they're they're on there solid, and you gotta go, you know, piece by piece to to put it all together. But yeah, so it's it's not as simple as just throwing it into a machine and hitting a button and click. There's there's other sign companies that do that, and they they are well established and they do great stuff. Um, but it's uh but with our stuff it's different and it's raised off of the board, which I think gives it a lot of character and a lot of uniqueness as well.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, they they definitely pop. I mean they yeah. And so you you had the conversation with Tron, he wanted to sell some, and then you went to, I don't recall who you mentioned it at that worked at uh Chad Chad Turner, he actually runs uh he does all the merchandising for Dream Golf now.
SPEAKER_02He's kind of moved on, but at the time he was the he was the merchandiser at Bandon Dunes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so what did that conversation how did that go? Of you being like, hey, I'm making wood signs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's I you know honestly, I don't remember the details of the conversation, but it was basically like, hey, I'm doing this thing for no laying up. Would you be interested in seeing? I made some Bannon samples, I actually got them up on the wall. I probably will never get rid of those, but um, but I look at them now, I'm just like, oh, they you know, they don't look very good. But uh thankfully Chad saw some kind of potential in it. Um, but yeah, it was just like it was just hey man, I'm doing this thing. Would you be, you know, I know Bannon Dunes is like the number one golf resort in in the country and you know, in the world, it's up there. You know, would you be crazy enough to set to for me to sell these things, or would you trust me enough to bring a product to sell in the golf shops? Um, and you know, must have been he must have had a good evening or something, but the the next morning when I had a meeting with him, he was he was really positive about the whole thing. And um, yeah, I it's like when you're going through those life-changing moments, it's kind of a blur. Like, yeah, all I all I heard at the end was yes, let's do it. And I was just like, Okay, yeah, cool, let's let's go with it. Um, I think I had a loop that day as well, or later that day, too. So I got through the meeting and you know, walking, walking down the the breezeway to McKee's pub, and just like, holy shit, my life's a my life just changed, but I gotta go loop now. So I gotta, you know, go get my shoes on and and get into caddy mode. But uh yeah, it was a it was a really cool moment. And um I just I remember going through the process of making the signs and delivering the first order. And I got off the shuttle one day, a couple days after I delivered them, and I'm walking up the breezeway between the lodge and the golf shop, and I peer into the golf shop there, and one of my signs was just front and center, like right on the uh right on just a little table or whatever, and it's just like holy shit, like this is crazy. Yeah. Um yeah, so that loop I was pretty much floating on air because it was uh it was pretty wild. It was uh it was something that I had really wanted for a long time. Um I had tried a few other things that didn't pan out, but it was it was really cool to finally see something that I made that I drepped up in the golf shop um and they sold out like almost immediately. I think they ordered like a hundred signs and they sold out in like 48 hours. Whoa. Something crazy. It was something crazy. Like I I got an email a few days later, it was like, hey, we need more. It's like okay, sure. Yeah, I'll get to work. So yeah, so from there it was just like, okay, there's definitely something here. Um people are you know, people enjoy them, and you know, it's you know, the this the design was very simple, and just it just said, you know, band in and then it had the logo in the corner, very simple. Um, and then now we're on our third or fourth edition of that stuff. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's it's kind of wild that uh because I I like to ask people when they thought that they made it, like what was the order that came in that was like, okay, this is this is a thing now. And you because where you were, like your first customer, other than John and NLU guys, was right the best golf resort in the United States.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Talk about starting at the top. Uh, yeah, it's um well, I haven't felt like I've made it yet, even though I've gotten to do so many different projects in so many cool places. Um, I still have that imposter syndrome of just like people are gonna figure out that this stuff sucks and you're not any good. Um, sadly. That's my default. Um, but um yeah, I don't I I think with this type of stuff, like you never feel like you've actually made it, if that makes sense. Um I think that keeps you hungry and that keeps you um paranoid enough to not get you know not uh get too full of yourself and uh you know keeps you hungry. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01So what so what year was that that they first went in the stores?
SPEAKER_02Um I believe it was 2019, I think so. Um yeah, so I got married in 19, in like January 19, and then I think they I think it was like April of 19 when they first launched or they first got in there. So yeah, I think I think it was nineteen, I think. I don't know. It's okay. When you with the business like this, you just like the years just blend and yeah, you know, you you don't know what month it is, you're just trying to get through the day.
SPEAKER_01So you fresh off of uh a wedding and have launched this. I I guess at the time was it more of a side hustle, or had you decided it was gonna be fair.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because I was still I was still caddying full time, so it was more of like just doing this thing for Bandon Dunes and you know, not not really thinking that it would go much beyond that, but then started, you know, thinking, well, if it can work at Bandon Dunes, it could probably work other places. So then I started reaching out to different places and um you know, and then people would see it in the pro shop or you know, and then reach out to me directly, or you know, like uh, you know, lots of head pros and those kind of things go through Bandon Dunes. So I started getting more and more of that um of people reaching out. Um But then it was also me just cold emailing people and just like, hey, I'm you know, the stuff's at Bandon Dunes, and you know, would you be interested in doing something? And it was pretty slow. I mean, it was like Bandon kept me plenty busy, and I was also caddying at the same time, so I really wasn't pushing it too much. And then uh after my son was born in twenty two, um basically I cut off cadding and wit and did this full time. So um just because my wife and son are up in BC, so it wasn't caddy wasn't gonna be in the cards anymore. Okay. Um, and just thought that you know what, if you're gonna see what this thing could be, you really need to just jump in and take the risk and just let's go dive in and see what happens.
SPEAKER_01So I love that you were just cold calling clubs to tell them what you were doing. Like that's that's a hustle to be admired.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, and it and I didn't even have a business email, it was just my own personal email. So, at gmail.com. Yes, 100%. So I can't I still can't believe that people responded. Like it it's just I mean, those early days is just like I mean, I was a no not not a nobody, but it's just like you don't know me, and you know, it's it wasn't really a business at that point. It was kind of a side hustle or whatever. But yeah, luckily some people took chances and was able to do some cool projects, and then um and then as things started ramping up, it was just like, okay, I need this this thing is okay for what it is right now because I wasn't getting a ton of reorders, which is always the problem. Um, but once I upgraded the materials and started doing the 3D stuff, that's really when it started exploding. Um, because it it really it validated what it was and what the price was and and all of that, and it just gave me so many um opportunities to just do more stuff. Because with the old stuff, like it was very limiting, like I could only do certain things. So if somebody reached out with a crazy intricate logo, like I couldn't do anything with it. Um, but once I switched, then it was just like everything was on the table. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01What's what's the most levels of wood you've ever done on a design? What do you mean? Like like the most pieces of like, okay, here's like the like the tree gun one, like where they just kind of stack to build up.
SPEAKER_02Oh man. Um I would say so I did one for Sweet's Cove a couple years ago. Let me grab that one. So I replicated the street sign, and that one was I mean, you start counting pieces, yeah. It was it was a an absolute nightmare to uh to do. But yeah, I mean it's uh I mean you could you could have anywhere from like 15 pieces to 75 pieces.
SPEAKER_03Goodness gracious, okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So and I'm I'm getting better at you know, because people will come to you with a design and you're like, okay, that's cool, but that's gonna take forever to do. So I've been better at not saying no, but like, well, that's a cool idea, but maybe let's try to go this route and make it more efficient and make it easier on myself, because yeah, you know, I could do those things, but you know, it could take forever. So try to try to be better with that. Like the tree farm is another one. Like there's a lot of pieces with that one. Um, but it's such a cool logo, and I don't, you know, it's such a special, unique logo that it's like, okay, I'll I'll do that one.
SPEAKER_01But so uh selfishly, is that Sweeten's Cove Sign still available for sale on your website?
SPEAKER_02No, so I don't sell anything directly through me. It's all it's all wholesale through the golf shops. Um that one I don't believe is available anymore. Um, I haven't done anything with Sweetens in a couple of years, um, which I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Might be a bad thing. Um, but um, yeah, that one is not available anymore. There's there's only uh, you know, however many they ordered, and then I think they sold them out or whatever. But um yeah. I yeah, me personally, I don't sell anything just because I don't have the rights to any of the logos or any of that type of stuff. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So d the uh the designs that are on the wall behind you of where you just chose just generic fonts, was that something you kind of pushed on your own, or was that a request that came from a club of like, hey, we just want our the the names of our courses in what in just regular fonts, not nothing that's stylized for the golf course or logo?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it it just depends on, you know, some places have specific fonts that they want to work with. Um, but I try to do um, you know, because the thinner the the pieces get and the th, you know, like with a cursive type of lettering, it just makes it more difficult to work with. So I try to use thicker lettering and thicker, you know, more bold and that kind of thing. Um, but some places are specific with their fonts, but some places it's just kind of do whatever you want. But the the method in which I do it, I try to use a thicker font just because it's easier to work with and you know there's less chance of things breaking. Because if you have a thin piece of plywood, you know, and you're not careful with it, or you treat it with respect, you know, there's a chance it could break, and then after and then from there it's just like, well, this thing's a piece of shit. It's like, well, not really. It's just you gotta treat them with respect and care, just like anything else. You know, if you bought like, you know, a mug or a glass something or whatever from a place, you're not just gonna toss it into your bag and you know, and just jog it around or whatever. So um, but yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So what what golf course reached out to you that kind of took you by surprise that they wanted to order from you?
SPEAKER_02Um I mean, there's been man I mean, I s any order that comes through, I'm I'm just like, really? Okay, like, you know. Um the Cabot ones were pretty special. Um, I had been lucky enough to go out there um years back and and see that property. Um Cabot was pretty cool. I did uh I've done stuff with up at Cape Breton and then uh down at uh what is it, Citrus Farms down in Florida. That one was pretty cool. Um I would say most anything with the USGA has been has been a big surprise. Um I s my first one or Hazel Team was my first US amateur that I got to do something with them at. Um and then it's you know, now it's like four or five a year with their different amateur events. Um but yeah, I would say anything with the USGA has been the biggest surprise. That was always kind of the goal of, you know, because when you start stuff like this, you have a dream or an idea of something you want to do, but the USGA has always kind of been that white whale of like doing something for their big events. You know, I've I've done two US senior opens, which has been great. Um but yeah, pretty much I would say anything with the USGA has been has been one of those like, okay, if if the big guys or the big guys at the USGA are paying attention, then obviously I'm doing something right. Um but yeah, I mean it's it there's just so many, like you know, the tree farm and Broomsedge and Valley Neal and Pasatiempo and Torrey Pines and I'm sure I'm missing uh like I'm doing something with rodeo dunes pretty soon. Um nice. So that's another good one. Um but yeah, it's it's uh they come in and I'm surprised, and it's just like, okay, let's get to work. Uh or Sand Valley is another one that was that was a big one. I kind of chased that golf course or that resort for a couple of years and then finally got in there and and the stuff has been doing really well there. So yeah, it's uh it's all a surprise, you know. When anytime you create something or try to, you know, bring some bring a product that you hand make into the world, it it's always a surprise when when people want to buy it and people see value in it, because you could you could think it's good or whatever, but you need that you know, you need those people to give you the green light. So luckily I've had uh quite a few green lights.
SPEAKER_01So that's interesting that you said you had to chase Sand Valley given that it's a dream bulk property. I would think that they would have seen everything abandoned and been like, oh, we need these.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, every place is different, you know. Every place has a a different merchandiser or different this or that. Um but yeah, it's uh just because you're in one place doesn't guarantee you're gonna be in another place, especially if there's another company that's well established there. Um it's it's a tough road to get into places where there's already something similar. Um there's thankfully there's not a ton of companies that do the do what I do. Um there's one really big guy, I won't mention the name, but um they're really well established pretty much everywhere. Um, but I am nipping at their heels. So nice. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Have you have you done anything internationally? I know you mentioned the cabot. I I guess that's technically international, but anything across the pond or either direction?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I did um I've done a couple projects with Rosa Panna, I believe is the name. I probably mispronouncing that, but it's uh it's in Ireland. Um it's um I believe it's the oldest golf resort in the world. Um but they have like St. Patrick's and uh and Rosa Panna is the name of the resort. I don't know if that's one of the courses. I haven't been over there yet. Um, but yeah, um got to do something over there, which is another thing that's just crazy. This crazy idea in the Northwest, and you know, now you can buy one of those way over the pond in Ireland. So um it's tough though with with doing stuff overseas because you know you got shipping, you got duty fees, and you got you know tariffs if those apply. So um it takes a product that's affordable and then it just jacks it up to you know, whatever. But um, but yeah, slowly starting to drip into you know outside of the US, which is exciting. Um again, it's all just one giant surprise. Anytime, anytime I get these emails from people, it's just like, yeah, that sounds great. Let's do it. Where's your shop located? So I'm in uh Monroe, Washington. I grew up in Snahomish, Washington, which is right next door, um, but basically Snohomish County. Um, I started the business at my apartment basically in Bandon. Um in my, you know, I I was telling Robbie the the story of just you know, like in my small bathroom, like I had like basically the way I dry all my stuff is I put them in like these um like uh kitchen, like anytime you see a restaurant or a kitchen, they'll have these like rolling trays where you can put like hot pans or whatever. So I would have two of those in my bathroom at Bandon Dunes. So if I had two of them in there, there'd be one against the dryer, washer and dryer, and then the next one would be by the toilet. So when I would walk in, I would have to shimmy to get to the toilet or whatever. Um, with and you know, I had a heater in there, so I cranked the heater and closed the door. Um, pretty wild to uh of where it started as far as that goes. But yeah, it was all in my apartment abandoned. So, you know, I had stuff in the bathroom, I had stuff in my bedroom, I had stuff in my living room, and it was all you know, it was probably 600 square feet, so it wasn't very big. So um, but I made use of every inch of that apartment uh to make it work.
SPEAKER_01Wild. Yeah, and I will use like carry stuff by hand over to the sh the golf shop.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I well, I put them in. Boxes or whatever, but yeah, I would deliver. I mean, it was much easier just to deliver to the shop. It was five minutes away. Right. But luckily, a a a friend of another caddy friend of mine, he had a house in town and gave me, and he had like a little shop kind of in his garage. And so yeah, it just, you know, I would buy the lumber in town and then I would go to his house to chop it up and sand it down. Then I would bring it back to my place, paint stain it and paint it, get it at that point, and then take it back to his house to weather all the signs, and then take it back to my place and go through the process. Um, luckily it's all in-house now, it's all in one place, so I don't have to deal with that. But you know, it's just when you're starting out, you gotta do what you gotta do to to make it work. And, you know, yeah, I don't want to do that again, but uh it's a lot easier nowadays. But yeah, back in the day it was it was uh it was a process to even just get the raw materials in my hand, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Well, and just the the the mental image of you having to shimmy between the two dry rack just to use the restroom is kind of comical.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, it's uh a good friend of mine um came to visit me. He uh he walked into my place, he's just like, what the hell are you doing? I was just like, Oh, I don't know, I'm just doing this thing, the side project thing, you know, and he just starts laughing. He's just like, Man, you're you're in it right now. I was like, Yeah, I am definitely in it. So it's just at the time I didn't know what I had, you know. You d I didn't want to invest into a property or invest in a shop or something like that because you know, I just you just never know in the early days if the floor is just gonna drop, you know, because bandit could stop calling and then that would be it. So kind of had to go through it uh to figure out what I had. So yeah. How many pieces a year do you produce? That's a good question. Um thousands. Probably two, three thousand maybe a year. It just depends on just depends on the amount of uh yeah, the amount of orders, obviously, and all of that. But yeah, I would say it's a couple thousand a year. I would say that's so cool.
SPEAKER_01Um thanks for taking time to come on the show. I got a couple yeah quick quick questions and and we'll let you get back to uh constructing more signs to be sent to golf courses all across the country.
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_01Uh what's your favorite track at Bandon?
SPEAKER_02Um uh well, my favorite thing on property is the preserve. I just I love the part three course there. Um, just way too many good memories. I actually proposed to my wife we played the preserve and then got all about got a bottle of wine and walked the track down to the beach. And so I proposed there. Um that's got a chills. And then well, and then we so we rented a house. So it was during COVID, so there was only a couple of us, basically, like my best friend, her best friend, the photographer, and actually her best friend did the whole thing where she could marry us, basically. So we rented a place just north of the sheep ranch, like right on the water, and then we went to the preserve in like our full get up with the photographer and played. Um, and so she took a bunch of pictures. So it was it was that was pretty cool. Um, as far as the big courses go, Trails is very special. Um, that one is is just as far as design goes, that's my favorite. Um it's hard to pick one. I mean, they're all you know, given the day, they're all just so different. Uh, old Mac is special just because it's so different than everything I grew up playing. I like really hard, firm surfaces. This is a long-winded qu uh answer, but uh yeah, I would say a toss-up between old Mac and Trails. But to say like a Twilight Round on Bandon, which I did a lot with my roommates and caddies, other caddy friends, that's pretty damn special too. So yeah, it's it's like picking your favorite child. It's it's it's tough. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So you you hit on something that your wife also plays. Who typically wins between the two of you when you tee it up?
SPEAKER_02It's pretty close because my wife um she played college golf and then she chased the mini tours. She played Symmetra and over in Thailand. So uh she chased it for a number of years, um, and now she's running the uh the um golf academy up at Predator Ridge in Vernon, BC. Um it's pretty close. We usually keep a tally, but yeah, it usually comes down to the last round, last nine, um, where you know, some putts need to be made to to win. But um, yeah, pretty uh pretty lucky to have your significant other be as into golf as I am. Yeah. Um and get to, you know, hey babe, let's go to Ireland or let's go to Cabot or let's go here, let's go there, and she's in every time. So yeah, it's it's pretty neck and neck. I would say I probably get her more than she gets me, just because when we go on those vacations, like I'm not thinking about work, I'm not thinking about anything, and I'm able just to be present. Um so yeah, I would say I get her a little more, but it's close. That's awesome. How'd y'all meet? Yeah. Uh so she used when she was playing, she would she used to practice out at the facility that I worked at. Okay. So on the back of the driving range is a bunch of houses, and you could just walk through the gate and be on the on the back deck of the driving range there. So she would practice there a lot. So I always made sure to make a point of filling up her golf balls and and doing all that. So um, yeah, uh, yeah. So basically we met in Arizona and yeah, started dating basically a little after I started going to Bandon, and uh yeah, we've been married uh five years now. So we've been together a long time, but we've been married five years, and then we our son, our son Henry, is four. So yeah, okay. Very lucky. What's your favorite club in the bag right now? Um, I don't get to play a lot. I did just get back from South Carolina where I got to play two rounds or three rounds. Um, I'd say pitching wedge, um, just because that's you know what I usually go to on the driving range. Like when I'm warming up, I'll just hit a few pitching wedges and that's good enough for me. So yeah, I'd say pitching wedge. Love it. Love it.
SPEAKER_01Jason, thank you for taking time to come on the show. Love all your work, love seeing. I love now that I have a face with all the product that I see in all these places that I go to. Um, but loved hearing your story. Thanks for taking time to come on the show. Uh yeah, just a very, very cool uh process and evolution of the fact that you just started in your apartment there abandoned and and now look what it is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I appreciate it. And and same to you, man. I've been following your stuff for a while and love the interviews and love all the different people you get on, and you know, like especially like creators, like that stuff really interests me because that's just something I'm I do and I'm interested in, and it's cool to hear the different backstories of people. And so, yeah, same to you.
SPEAKER_01Keep keep up the good work and yeah, I very much appreciate that. Very much appreciate that. Well, for Jason Calamaro, I'm Josh Decker, and this has been another episode of Off the Deck.
