Sarah Khan on Building Businesses That Last: The Truth About Leadership, Growth, and Doing the Work

On this episode of The Greater Journey Podcast, Gregory Rutledge sits down with Sarah Khan—leadership empowerment strategist, TEDx speaker, author, and founder of NYSH Strategic.

Sarah is known as “Sarah Khan Out Loud” for a reason: she doesn’t hold back on telling the truth about what it really takes to build a business and lead yourself with courage.

Together, they dive into:

• Why so many online entrepreneurs are “playing business” instead of building one.
• The difference between a business and an expensive hobby.
• Sarah’s Entrepreneur Growth Hierarchy (Emerging → Awakened → Connected → Flourishing → Liberated).
• Why self-leadership and business growth must happen in lockstep.
• The hidden grief and pruning that come with leaving corporate life and unlearning employee mindsets.
• Why quick fixes and shortcuts never last—and how to build a foundation that does.

This conversation will challenge, encourage, and equip you to take your next step with clarity and conviction.

Transcript

Welcome & Meet Sarah Khan
0:00
Welcome to the Greater Journey podcast where we aim to get the real gritty
0:09
messy middle instead of the highlight reel so that you can see what made the
0:15
guests that I bring on greater so that you can see the real steps to becoming an entrepreneur and not all this fake
0:22
stuff that's been put out there on the internet for you to believe and make you feel like you can't level up from where
0:28
you are Today I have an incredible guest, Sarah Khan,
0:35
and I just think y'all are in for one of the best episodes I've made so far. So,
0:43
let's jump in. Sarah Khan, NYSH strategic, and her personal brand is
0:49
Sarah Khan Out Loud. And you're about to find out why today. Sarah Khan is a leadership empowerment
0:57
strategist and educator. She's a TEDex talk speaker, a podcast host, an author,
1:03
and founder of NYSH Strategic. She helps women turn quiet excellence into out
1:08
loud power and leadership. Yes. And I've seen her power, and now we are
1:14
about to unleash it on you, Sarah. What's on your mind today? Like I I know
The Problem with AI & Losing Our Voice
1:21
every time I log into Facebook, the first person I see is Sarah, and she's telling the truth.
1:27
But that it was you you you don't try, you do it. I do. And and it's like you're saying all the
1:35
things people are thinking that they wish they could say and like you're you're one of the only people that send
1:41
an email that I will actually read the whole email. Thank you.
1:46
Because I can tell it's not AI. Well, yeah. No, we don't. We don't. We
1:52
use we use AI the way it's meant to be used um sparingly and with a lot of discernment. And
1:58
I haven't turned over any of the the thinky stuff to AI because
2:03
that's that's the part I enjoy. Like if I enjoy talking to people, I enjoy
2:09
communicating. Why why would I turn that over to a robot? Right? Does it matter if my words are
2:15
eloquent? Does it matter if you know uh I'm not using M dashes? Like, okay,
2:20
first of all, I've used M dashes my entire life. I'm a English major. Pardon my language. You know, I
2:26
have used M dashes forever and I will continue to use them. Um, but it people are are getting caught up in like I
2:33
think they're asking the wrong questions when it comes to AI, you know? It if you truly enjoy communicating, then
2:40
then just communicate. It doesn't matter how polished it is. That's it's so true. I I much rather
2:48
engage with something that has some typos that's from the heart than something that is incredibly perfect
2:54
that has no humanity in it. Yeah. I mean, full disclosure, as as an
3:00
English a for English major, uh, typos always bother me and like that's some
3:06
I've always judged typos, which I I fully admit. Um, but I I can see the
3:12
humanity behind it, right? Like I I also have had typos and things after I've pressed post and I'll go back and edit
3:17
them if I find them. But it just I don't understand why there is such a rush to
3:26
monetize everything and give away our agency because that's essentially what
3:32
we're doing. We're giving away our agency when we allow the bots to think
3:37
for us and write for us and communicate for us and strategize for us. And that's not to say there isn't a place for them
3:43
in terms of supporting your creative output, right? You know, to make it more efficient, but
3:48
it shouldn't be taking away from the creative part, right? So, that's just my two cents. That's that's how I feel.
3:55
Hey, your two cents is why we're here. So, write me letters. It's fine.
4:00
Yes. Yes. Um, on that note, there there's a story here behind
4:09
leadership, empowerment, and strategy. There's a story behind why you're so passionate, and I love your musical
4:15
language and how you you strategically talk about Fbombs as F#s.
4:22
FPS. You know, it she dropped an F# earlier and it was it was so melodic.
4:28
Oh, thank you. No, but like seriously, I I've I've tried to, you know,
4:36
carve out that part because of something someone told me years ago. I don't even
4:41
remember who told me or who asked me why I used swear words in my music, but it
4:48
was a challenge for me to take those out. But it also took away from who I am
4:53
because my story is not pretty. I'm not perfect. And you know, for those people
4:59
that that judge that happening, they act like it's never happened to them
5:05
or like they don't watch rated R movies or they don't listen to explicit music, right?
5:10
Yeah. Like like can we be real for a minute? Um so the story the story behind who you
5:17
are, how you are, why you are like can we talk about where this journey started?
5:23
Absolutely. How far back do you want to go? Um well you know you had the the podcast
5:29
corpor corporate blasphemy and that was story business sorry corporate rehab business
5:36
corporate rehab business blasphemy. Yeah. Um there's a story behind that that has
From Corporate Layoffs to Entrepreneurship
5:42
helped to shape who you are and how you live from the heart now which is courage
5:47
right living from the heart. I want to hear that story. Okay, sure. Um, well,
5:53
thank you for allowing me to tell the the story. It's um because you think
5:58
people know, right? If they know you, they know the story. You know, they must have seen it on social, but the truth is most people don't see what you like,
6:04
like very few people see what you post. So, you'll you'll only know the story if you've been following me for years or if you happen to come across a post where I
6:10
shared parts of it. But, I was in the online business space back in 2018. I started So, I started my consultancy
6:16
back in 2010. Like, I've been doing this for a long time. It was part-time. It was um in addition
6:22
to my corporate job uh to my teaching job like it was always just kind of in the in the background. I consulted here
6:28
and there. I spoke a lot. In 2018 um after I had been laid off for the second
6:33
time uh during Matt leave, both times during Matt leave, that's another story. Um I ended up going back to work in
6:40
2018, but realized that I needed something to help supplement my income because I could not I could not trust a
6:48
job that I had poured my heart and soul into. and that just summarily dismissed me because somebody else was more senior
6:53
or whatever um to have my best interest at heart. So I I I pulled my business
6:58
into the online space in 2018 because I felt like there was more leverage there.
7:05
Uh fast forward to COVID, lots of things happened. We were on lockdown. I was trying to do my full-time job with my
7:12
kids in the room. It wasn't happening. Um, there was an incident where
7:18
I just finally decided I can't do this anymore. And my husband was actually the one who said to me, he's like, "If you don't quit your job, you're going to
7:23
have a nervous breakdown." And he's like, "Just go full-time in your business. It's fine." And he
7:29
trusted me. So, I trusted him and I I did it. And that was kind of, you know,
7:36
and the rest is history. But what I had learned was like sort of you know in the corporate space and
7:43
having done the executive coaching and the project like all of the stuff that you do as a in a business and
7:49
I worked for two of the the big four. So I worked for I can't name them but two
7:54
of the big four professional services firms. I worked for both of them at at some point and you learn a lot about how business
8:01
runs and when I came into the online space I was primarily doing operations in the background
8:06
and you know seeing people who had who had come into the business space in
8:12
2020 as a result of COVID and lockdown and not having jobs to go back to. But
8:18
they were building these businesses um without very much business acumen, without very much business experience or
8:26
or knowledge. And this is not me throwing shade. This is a reality of what I was seeing, right? And it was really hard to be in
8:33
the back end of a business to try and help someone scale it, build it, grow it, and see them consistently get in
8:40
their own way, see them consistently invest money in the next shiny object and not really looking at it as as a
8:47
business. And so I started to say things like just because it's online doesn't mean it's not a business. Like you have
8:53
to treat it like a business, right? So, all of that to say, you know, fast forward a few years, I got very,
8:59
very frustrated and I started to talk very candidly about what it actually
9:05
takes to run a business, what it actually takes to build one. Um, how, you know, how you have to be aware of
9:11
the grifters and the and the charlatans in the space who are just trying to make a quick buck, who re like you don't need
9:17
all of this stuff, you need this stuff. And found very quickly that it was polarizing in a way that I did not
9:24
expect. Like I thought, I'm telling the truth. I'm like here to help you. I'm not here to try and like, you know, pull
9:31
like I'm trying to pull the wool off of your eyes. And so many people
9:37
took exception to that. And it was usually the people who were selling programs and courses and things like
9:43
that where the marketing was really wonderful, but when you get behind it, you know, you get inside it, there was no substance. people were locked into
9:51
10, 15, $20,000 commitments and they weren't getting what they were promised. Like I was starting to call out not the
9:58
people. I never call out the people. Although I have a list and if you're really nice to me, I might share it with you personally,
10:04
but I always called out the tactics and I always really encouraged people to see what was actually happening. Like here
10:10
are the questions you need to ask before you jump into a program. Here are the questions you need to ask before you hire a coach. And it just it just
10:17
shocked me the number of people that were were offended by that. Like they, you know, I started being called negative. I started being called um you
10:24
know, somebody who had a bad mindset. I had a money money blocks and blah blah blah. And I and I was like, if that's
10:29
the case, then why am I running a successful business, right? Like I I'm not having any issues
10:36
running my business, right? So there are no money blocks here. there are no, you know, I'm not a negative
10:41
person, but you know, and then I I just I started the podcast and I started um
10:49
all of like the business blasphemy stuff and the corporate rehab stuff because I really wanted to be able to share my
10:56
knowledge and to be honest really just kind of um call it out in a space that
11:02
was my own and that people could opt into versus me shouting into the void and hoping someone heard it. And so,
11:09
yeah, you know, we've been going for three three years, I think, now. So, we're into season four or five. And, um,
11:16
I've got a nice little loyal band of listeners and I love them dearly. And yeah, we're we're we're still around.
11:23
We're still kicking. So, I don't know what to tell you. Might I add, like that podcast is
11:28
incredible. Just the way that you articulate, the way that you do your research, and you go deep and you tell
11:35
the truth, right? There's not like I would love I'm I feel like I'm nice to you. I would love to know what that list
11:43
is. I mean our very first conversation we were in tears together. So like there was a connection immediately and I think
11:50
it's because you live from the heart, right? And and your work comes from a place of
11:57
I'm tired of seeing people struggle and get taken advantage of. Yeah. Yeah. I've always had a service
12:04
heart and I think that for me the hardest thing is watching
12:09
like one of my I guess one of my gifts, one of my superpowers is I've always been able to see directly to the heart
12:17
of any matter. So a lot of people like when they when they talk to me, they will talk to me because they're like, "Okay, Sarah,
12:23
what's actually going on here? Can you just help me figure it out?" Right? And and I do that. And it's funny, my
12:28
siblings don't often like it because I'll call them on their BS real quick. It's like that's that's not actually the problem. Here's the problem. But they
12:33
they don't, you know, sometimes they're like, I just wanted to vent. I'm like, no, this is this is the issue. Deal with it because I don't want to deal with
12:39
your nonsense. So, you know, some people really embraced it. Some people didn't. But that's that's the superpower I have.
12:45
And so, when I can see like there are people that I have known in the online
12:51
space for four, five, six years and I look at their businesses and I see
12:57
them in the same place they were five, six years ago. still struggling, still having the same
13:03
and I can say like if you just did this, everything would work, but I'm not the
13:09
kind of person who's going to impose my advice on you because, you know, if you want my advice, you pay me for it. And
13:14
people have um and then and then they still have not implemented it because I think the thing people don't like is
13:21
that my advice is always work oriented. Like nothing I tell you
13:27
is going to be quick, simple, and easy. Right. Right. Nothing is a quick fix. Nothing is is a band-aid. It's like if you
13:34
really want this to work, you need to put in the work. And what is
13:40
Sorry. Go ahead. No, no, no, no. I'm going let you finish. I got this question. uh just you know like put in the work.
13:47
But we're told in all of the marketing um like all of the marketing gurus will
13:54
tell you that don't talk about the work. That's not sexy. People don't want to hear that. So
14:01
I kind of got to the point last year where I was like, well then why am I even doing this? I'm just going to focus on what I want to do and whatever. So
14:10
it's been a bit of a crossroads the last year or so. Yeah. I remember you reaching out as you
14:15
were rebranding and thinking about just kind of throwing it all away and starting over.
14:20
I'm telling you, it's been a slo. Like, don't throw it away. This is amazing. Like,
14:26
what you're doing works. You just have to find your people. So, what I wanted to and and your people
14:32
will find you. Just you keep showing up the way you are. Yeah. Yeah. The people that that don't like what you
14:38
do and that make it a point to let you know they don't like what you do, they still serve a purpose.
14:45
Oh, yeah. It may not be the purpose you want, but I mean, all press is good press.
14:53
Well, you know, I I'm a little bit infamous, I guess, in some circles. And um it's the wonderful thing is it's been
15:00
very telling as well, right? It's been very telling that the people who pay lip service to my face like, "Oh, I love
15:08
you. You're one of my favorite people." But then almost go out of their way not to support me, not to share things, not
15:14
to, you know, like it you. It's very telling. And so it has served the wonderful purpose of helping me really
15:21
curate my close like my inner circle and I can count on one hand the people
15:27
who are in that circle and you're you're in that circle. So, I mean, it's it's a very small circle on purpose because
15:33
it's taught me that not everybody who says they love you have your best interest at heart.
15:41
I I'm learning that the hard way myself. Yeah. You know, you become an author and you
15:47
gain some enemies along the way. And it's wild. I It's so like I wish somebody would
15:53
have told me that before I did it so I could have prepared, but you know, it is what it is. So your message should repel
16:01
the wrong people as much as it should attract the right people. And be you said you're infamous in some circles,
16:07
but you are famous in my circle. Like Sarah is the one. So you you talk about
Why Online Business Is Full of Charlatans
16:14
this work and I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna take the seat of of a listener that
16:19
needs what you have to offer right now. And I'm going to ask this this way. What does that work look like? Because I wish
16:27
somebody would have told me that it wasn't all magic and and unicorns and rainbows when I jumped into business.
16:33
That there was going to be this depression that came first and this unlearning of all the corporate BS and
16:38
this unlearning of the employee mindset and instead of wearing one hat and no matter
16:45
how you show up, you get paid. You have to wear seven hats and show up at your best for all seven.
16:52
For all seven. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody says that. Well, this is why corporate rehab was
16:59
born, right? Like the original, it wasn't the original brand. It was actually the second iteration of the brand. Um, but corporate rehab was
17:06
really that it was it was understanding because I worked with a lot of women in the early days. And
17:12
a lot of them had left their corporate job to start businesses when 2020 2021 hit. And that was the number one thing I
17:18
was seeing was that you really needed to unlearn this mindset of being the
17:23
employee, right? Um that corporate mentality cuz I mean I remember myself when when it was
17:29
2020, I would sit down at my desk, which was in the living, it was in the dining
17:34
room. Um and I would sit down at 8:00 and I would stay at my desk until 4 even if I wasn't doing anything productive
17:40
because that's a full workday. It it took years to undo that mindset of time
17:46
equals productivity or time equals value. And like there are so many things that you have to unlearn.
17:52
And it was in learn like in my own journey that I started to kind of put
17:58
things together. And I am infamous for having epiphies in the middle of the
18:03
night. I am an insomniac for a reason. Um, but like my best frameworks come up
18:08
at like 3:00 a.m. and I have an entire notebook and you'll you'll giggle at this, but my notebook is like a it's got
18:14
a dragon on it. Oh, yeah. Um, this is my framework notebook. I do everything analog when it comes to like
18:21
brain downloads because you know neuro linguist. What is it? Neuro linguistic promoting. Yeah, like your
18:28
Well, no, it's it's it's the um neuromotation. So, when you write it
18:33
sticks in your brain better. So, that's what I do. And over the years what I have discovered is that there is a
The Entrepreneur Growth Hierarchy
18:40
hierarchy to business growth and that's actually in the last year also evolved
18:46
into a hierarchy of leadership growth and I developed an entire hierarchy
18:53
around um what it requ what's required in a business in order to be successful
19:00
and to be sustain sustainably successful. So, um, I called it the entrepreneur growth hierarchy and I'm
19:07
actually writing a book around it and I'm going to include the leadership piece as well because, um,
19:13
when I was, so when I was teaching, I I taught at business school for 14 years after I left like the corporate
19:19
corporate world. Um, and if you've ever been to a private college, you'll you'll know that it's very corporate anyway.
19:24
So, I continue to say that I have a a fully corporate career, but I taught um a lot of the professional skills, you
19:33
know, in addition to things like marketing and what have you. Um, and one of the things that I loved was motivational theory. And so, Maslo's
19:40
hierarchy, Abraham Maslo came up with a um the hierarchy of needs. And some of
19:45
your listeners have probably heard of it. Uh if not, very quickly, it's a pyramid and it says like there are there
19:51
are different levels. There are five different levels of needs that have to be satisfied before you can move to the next level.
19:57
Yeah. So for example, the very base level you have to have your physiological needs like you need sleep, oxygen, water in
20:03
order to be able to worry about the next level which is like job, security, etc., etc.
20:08
And that's how it goes. And so I started to look at business from that perspective. And I realized that there
20:14
are indeed five levels of business. Um, and
20:20
depending on the level you're at, like you have to there have to be certain conditions in your business that have to
20:26
exist before you can sustainably go to the next level. Can you jump from level one to level four? Absolutely. But guess
20:33
what's going to happen at the first sign of hardship? Everything is going to crumble. And so it starts with like if
20:41
you're an emerging entrepreneur, if this is an emerging business, here are the conditions that you have to meet before
20:47
you can move to the next level sustainably. And those are things like very quickly like, you know, finding offers that
20:54
actually are viable, you know. So, so doing whatever it takes to to make money and see what sticks.
21:02
And I have seen so many people come in in their first two or three years of
21:07
business, which is what I would say is probably the emerging time frame, and jump immediately to I want to be an
21:13
authority. I want to be a thought leader. I want you like you baby, you don't have the you don't have the ne the necessary conditions yet to do that.
21:20
And so it's an entire I wouldn't call it a framework. It's really a hierarchy. Like these are the
21:25
and I've I've pressure tested it. Um I've done case studies around it. you have to do it in a certain order in
21:33
order to be sustainable. And so that's really the work when you talk about like what do you have to learn? It really
21:39
depends like where are you in business? And it it doesn't have to do with number of years that you've been in business or
21:45
how many businesses you've built. It's like what is the the maturity level of this particular business right now? And
21:53
you might have been in business for 5 years, 10 years, but if you don't have certain things in place at those those
21:59
um initial levels, then you're going to struggle to get to where you actually are trying to go. So many people trying
22:05
to scale, but they're missing the the foundations in their business. And so that's why they can't scale. And I
22:13
started to um look at that as well from a leadership perspective in the last
22:18
year. And I see the same conditions starting to emerge from a leadership
22:24
perspective. When you want to be, for example, if your goal is to be a highly visible thought leader,
22:31
there are conditions that have to exist in your in your leadership in your visibility before you get to that level.
22:36
So, it's all just, you know, it's it's a process. And I think that's what people forget,
22:42
right? Is that you cannot shortcut it. You can't jump over steps.
22:49
And that's probably the most fundamentally troubling and problematic thing about
22:55
online business specifically is that so many people have been told you can absolutely shortcut it. You know, you
23:01
hear the term collapsing timelines, etc. I don't think people understand where that came from or what it actually
23:07
means. They think if I just manifest or if I just do XY Z, I can skip over steps
23:13
2, three, and four and jump straight to self-actualization. And that's not true. It doesn't work. Period.
23:19
Man, Sarah, you just bursted a whole bunch of bubbles. And I'm here for it, girl. I'm here for
23:25
it. This is real. I mean, you have to master everything at level one before you go to level two or else, right? I
23:32
I've heard this before. Um, you either make time to do it right the first time or you make time to do it over again.
23:38
Yeah. And I I've done the thing where you can
23:43
shortcut and get to the top pretty fast. Yeah. But once you get there, do you want to
23:50
talk about imposttor syndrome uh or status anxiety? Like if you get to
23:57
some place like your talent can take you where your your character can't hold you and
Business Growth & Self-Leadership Must Align
24:02
and oh yes, let's just let that one breathe for a
24:08
minute. I'm writing that down. Fantastic.
24:13
I I had to learn that the hard way. I heard it from a preacher, then I lived it. And I think that's how the process
24:19
of how things happen in my life a lot of times is I hear something and it sounds sexy or it sounds great or it sounds
24:26
practical, but if I don't understand, it's like my higher power is going to make me understand one way or another.
24:33
Especially if I tell him I just don't understand this. Like for example, when I first met my wife as a waiter and I'm
24:40
moving my body all day, but by the time I get home, I'm I'm I'm amped. I want to keep moving. And so when I get home and
24:46
she's like drained and all she did was sit there and work from a desk all day, I'm like, "How could you be drained?"
24:52
Well, God put me in a corporation. He put me at a desk for six, seven years
24:57
now. And I get it. Yeah. Using your brain for work, which is what we do as entrepreneurs,
25:05
will make you not want to use your body at all. And and we have to sit at a desk for it all. I'm I'm taking a a detour here.
The Five Phases: Emerging → Awakened → Connected → Flourishing → Liberated
25:15
But I'm so curious to know like what you
25:20
don't have to tell the whole thing. Just what is what is at the base? What what do they need to know that's at the base
25:25
that if they don't have this their business is not going to be viable at
25:31
all? Well, let me tell you.
25:37
Um it's it's really the foundational pieces, right? It's understanding um
25:44
what you're good at, like what is it that you actually want to do? Uh testing out offers and seeing if
25:51
they're viable. Uh you know what's really funny actually? Let me let me open it up because I've been working with this recently.
25:58
um exclusive because I've been trying to figure out how to put my um my
26:07
entrepreneur growth hierarchy together with my leadership hierarchy and like turn it into one thing. And I actually did I created um over the weekend,
26:14
you're getting an exclusive because it's not even like fully formed yet. Um, but I I created what I'm calling the
26:21
business and leadership continuum. And it's like a a fivephase
26:26
um uh framework I guess or or process that people can walk through because it it's
26:33
like you just said the reason I love that thing that you said about talent and character is because what I've come
26:38
to learn is that your business and your leadership have to grow in lock step because if one
26:45
outpaces the other, you stall. Yeah. Right. You don't you don't actually get
26:50
where where you're going. And so the five stages of business for example are
26:55
emerging. Uh next is awakened. Then the third level is connected. Uh fourth
27:01
level is flourishing. So many people want to get to that level of flourishing and liberated which is the fifth level.
27:07
And it's so hard to get there. Like you have to it's not I shouldn't say hard. Let me rephrase that. It's it's
27:14
challenging to get there if you haven't done the work right. And so in order to um really
27:23
do the work and and and and again like there's no sort of time frame around it. You have to it's how much work you put
27:30
in is how quickly you actually go through the stages. So that foundational stage and again there's no time frame
27:37
around this but you need to have a clear foundation. You need to have like your legal setup. You need to have bank
27:43
accounts because I I know people who are still operating their business out of their personal checking account, right?
27:49
Like don't do that. You need to have simple offers
27:54
and you have to have a consistent sales process, right? And in terms of like revenue
28:00
stability, you need to be able to cover your basic expenses. I've often said if you are breaking even, you are
28:07
successful because you're covering your basic expenses, right? and and and we want stability there because you don't
28:13
want it doesn't uh you don't want it to be like a patchwork gig kind of situation and a lot of people are so
28:19
focused because we're told right what is success 10k months okay well how hard is
28:25
that to get to consistently if you don't have a consistent sales process consistent lead generation offers that
28:32
have been that have been tried and tested and actually work right right you want to have some kind of systems in
28:38
place they don't have to be documented um like officially, but you should have like you shouldn't be doing things kind
28:44
of off the top of your head for every client. You're going to start to to have some kind of minimal workflow or system
28:50
in place. And then like the most important thing is you've got at least one paying customer and you know that
28:58
you can repeat the results you got with them. That is level one. Until you do
29:03
all of that, do not even think of moving to the next level or the next or the next because that's the foundation of
29:10
business. And this is why, and people hate it when I say this, and I sound like an absolute
29:16
bleep when I say it, but this is why so many people are playacting at being
29:22
business owners. They like the idea of calling themselves an entrepreneur, but really they just want to be an
29:28
influencer. Do you have a viable product or service? Are you consistently making money?
29:35
If you had to sell tomorrow, what are you selling? What is what is the business entity? What is it? If you
29:41
cannot answer those questions, then you don't have a business, my friend. You have an expensive hobby.
29:47
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And if you have a team on top of that, then you have a captive audience. You are paying for the
29:52
privilege of watching you work. But those are the markers of success,
29:58
right? that we have been told 10k a month. You have a team. Okay. And how are you paying them? God, the number of
30:06
and I mean I I lost a client four years in. We had built this incredible
30:12
business together. I was her director of operations and she backslid because she went into I
30:19
don't know she she started listening to the wrong people and then suddenly we
30:25
went from a flourishing business to I can't pay the team anymore. But that's okay because they believe in
30:31
my vision. Belief does not put food on the table. No. Right. So, there's a lot of like there's
30:38
a lot of serious work that goes into it. It's not hard, but it's serious. And so,
30:44
if you want a business that is going to flourish, you need to be serious about it.
30:49
That is so good. So, let's let's go over those levels again. So, emerging, they they need to
30:56
emerge first. Yes. And then the next level is the awakened CEO,
31:04
right? Or the awakened entrepreneur. Um, this level you've got like a defined
31:11
service or product suite. Only one or two really strong offers. It's not like I have an offer for
31:18
absolutely anything. No, no, no, no, no. That was okay when you were like just starting out, but now you know which
31:23
ones are actually making money, which ones have repeatable results. Um, this is why actually a friend of mine and I,
31:29
we used to talk all the time in the early days about group programs and why um, it's really bad advice to to tell
31:36
someone that if you want to scale your business quickly, have a group program. I mean, logically, yeah, that makes
31:42
sense. However, if you don't have a repeatable result that you have had like
31:49
10 times, then you don't have a group program. Like, it's it's not the the time for that. So, by the time you're at
31:56
level two, you've got a couple of really strong offers. You have, you know, documented
32:01
um processes for delivery and and onboarding and stuff. You've got some basic administration processes in place.
32:09
Your uh lead generation is consistent. So, whether it is one channel uh one
32:15
marketing channel, whether it is networking, whether it is referrals, I built my entire operations business on
32:21
referrals. I didn't market at all. Um, and when I pivoted my business, then I
32:26
had to learn to market because the referrals had dried up. Wow. Now, you can start to hire people too to
32:33
maybe support you in a couple of administrative tasks. Um, because again, you've got the consistent revenue,
32:38
you've got the consistent lead generation, so you know the money's coming in consistently. And so it's easier to hire when you have
32:46
predictable income that part and you know where it's coming from and you're you're forecasting out.
32:51
Right. Right. Just like we would have to do if we were working for some business. Like
32:57
there's someone that handles those spreadsheets and does those things. We just have to be that person. Yeah.
33:02
Until we can afford to hire it. Until you can afford to hire. One of the things I used to tell my students all
33:07
the time um because I did teach entrepreneurship and I used to say to them because they they hated the finance
33:13
piece like whenever we got to the finance module they were like I don't want to do it like I'm just going to hire an accountant. I'm like that's
33:18
great and if that accountant fiddles the books you're still on the hook. So you
33:24
don't necessarily have to become an accountant or become a financial wizard but you need to understand the basics so
33:30
that because you are liable for everything that happens in your business, right? And so I'm not asking people if you're going to be a
33:35
soloreneur to be an expert marketer, an expert financial wizard, an accountant, a bookkeeper, like no. But understand
33:42
the basics because at the end of the day, it's still your business, right? And if you outsource it completely and
33:47
you have no idea what's happening, then you end up having to sell your house to make payroll. And that's that's
33:53
happened. I've seen people do that.
33:58
Yeah, that's that's wild. It is crazy. But, you know, sometimes ego wins out and it's like, well, I'm
34:06
not going to admit defeat. Sometimes admitting defeat is actually the smart thing to do because you can regroup and
34:12
then try again, you know? So, that's a that's a whole side tangent we can go on.
34:18
Oh my gosh, this is so good. I try to keep these episodes down to 30 minutes.
34:24
So, I I know you said you you got to go in like 20 minutes.
34:29
Yeah. I just really I really want to because I know the value of Sarah Conan.
34:36
I've seen your TED talk. I I've I love when someone can bring me to tears and
34:42
then make me laugh those tears off of my face right in the same speech. And
34:48
that's what you were able to do with that that Thank you. TED talk. So there is emerging, there's awakened CEO.
34:54
Yep. And then third level was connected. So now you're at the point
35:00
you have a reliable sales pipeline. You're meeting your revenue targets. You're delegating some operations,
35:06
right? Maybe you're even ready for like a full-time VA or an OBM or or contractors. You've got documented SOPs.
35:14
Now you are ready to um be recognized. You're ready for a
35:21
niche or perspective or or a a brand positioning that people recognize. And so now they're connecting with you
35:28
around that. So now like the networking becomes important and the visibility starts to become important. This is
35:33
where that's important. Um and because now you're a brand, right?
35:39
So that's like at the middle stage. That's not down here where everybody thinks it is. It's like here. So
35:45
well and and I'll I'll say a yes end to this because a brand is just a newer
35:51
word for reputation. And what we do consistently is our reputation which we
35:57
are building a brand whether we realize it or not at all times. Right. Oh 100%.
36:04
A brand is just a a name that reminds you of a story. And a a premium brand is
36:09
is a name that reminds you of a story that you'd pay a lot to want to be a part of. And
36:15
if your reputation walks in a room before you do,
36:20
you've been intentional about creating a reputation that precedes you. Um, but
36:28
when you can start to get intentional about it is when you have the the receipts and you've been awakened and
36:35
you have some processes in place. And so now it's like, yes, I've been building my reputation kind of unknowingly
36:45
by just showing up and being excellent wherever I go. But now it's time to be intentional about how I connect with
36:51
others around that. Is that what I'm hearing? Absolutely. And I and I love the the
36:56
shift that you've you've kind of because as you're building and I've just made this connection now, but like as you're
37:02
building in those those earlier levels like the emerging and the awakened um
37:07
you are solidifying that reputation, right? So who you become, right? And
37:13
this this is where you build like that that um consistency not just in in the
37:19
business itself but in who you are and what you deliver. M and that's the kind of reputation that
37:24
you want to be known for at level three, right? When you are connected, so that's why it's so important to take
37:31
it seriously from day one. And it makes you worthy of connecting with. It really does because what why why are
37:37
you worried about having coffee chats and having people refer you if you don't know what you do consistently,
37:43
right? Like if you don't have clarity in what the heck you even offer or what your what your messaging is or what your
37:49
leadership is. Yeah. Who cares how many coffee chats you've had this month?
37:56
You know, when people show up in a coffee chat and like, "How can I support you?" And you're like, "Uh, I don't know." That's usually why.
38:04
Sarah, don't eat their lunch like that, girl.
38:09
It's It's true. Everyone wants to get to this next level, which is flourishing, but they they they haven't emerged.
38:16
They haven't awakened. Mhm. They've connected. But I mean, what's the use in in spreading
38:24
more confusion if I'm confused? Yeah. And I can't even tell you what it is I do. How are you going to go tell someone
38:30
else what I do? Yeah. I said don't eat their lunch like that. I was talking about me. I'm they right.
38:36
I have no idea what I do, Sarah. I just know that I do it well. I can't tell you how many people have messaged me and they're like, "I don't know what you do,
38:42
but you make it look really good." And I'm like, "I don't know what I do either. I I just I don't know how I've survived this long. not knowing what I
38:48
do. Yeah. But you know what? But I think if you look back, right, there's like a there's a theme
38:53
there. There are markers. So I think you know, but I think the challenge and I
38:58
mean I will I will not downplay how challenging it is particularly when you are multi-talented
39:04
and you are a multi- potential. It's really hard to pick the one thing that brings you joy. And I'm going to hold my
39:10
hand up and say that that has been my challenge. Like operations for me was easy because I could do it with my eyes closed. It's what I did in in in
39:16
corporate. Um, but it wasn't what I loved. All the stuff that I loved, I was doing behind the scenes, right? And now
39:23
that I'm trying to bring that to the forefront and and have that be the thing that I lead with, it has been hard. It's
39:29
been almost uh I would say, where are we now? September. Yeah. It it's it's been
39:35
oh gosh it's been nine months really of of me trying to figure out like of all
39:40
of these amazing things that I'm passionate about which is the one that's like the gateway drug for people to like come in and work with me. And it's hard
39:47
because every time you make a decision you're like but but then I can't help that person and oh but if I choose this
39:53
then I can't help that person. And so it really has to be like a refinement process. And I I bet you anything if you
40:00
look back at what you've been doing over the last
40:05
while, you will see a pattern. You will see a theme and it's coming. So just
40:12
just keep doing what you're doing. As you've said that, I I I know what the theme is. I think it's just believing.
40:19
And and I'm saying this because I know someone else feels this out there. I know someone else feels like it's too
40:25
easy to be me. It's too easy to to live in my natural gift. And I've been
40:31
trained, conditioned to believe that it has to be hard. It has to be um this
40:38
process that this is grueling and you have to do these things this way and if
40:43
you don't, you're wrong or you're broken or you're you're No, I'm an encourager. I people can come into my presence one
40:51
way and leave transformed. And that's my gift. That's what I do best is
40:57
I I make them sink from their head to their heart and live from their heart.
41:03
Now monetizing that is another story. Like it looks like I'm flourishing.
41:09
It looks like I'm well connected, which I am, but if if I don't have that
41:14
emergence and awakening, right? If I don't believe it for myself, if I don't see the value myself,
41:22
even though I follow people that are motivating and encouraging, even though I see the value in other people doing
41:27
that, yeah, I know someone else feels the way I do where it's like, yeah, but it's just me.
41:33
Yeah, but you know, anybody could do anybody could be doing this.
41:40
I think that's probably the reason why like I had because I this framework this
41:46
process this entrepreneur growth hierarchy it really came to me in 2021
41:52
and I have been like refining it and refining it and refining it ever since then. But that's why the leadership
42:00
piece came into play as well because what I started to realize was all of this makes complete logical sense but
42:07
you you can't live life purely on logic. There has to be that mindset shift that goes along with
42:13
it. And so when I said earlier about like your your leadership growth and when I talk about leadership I'm not
42:18
talking about leading people. I'm talking about self leadership. Yeah. Right. Like how you lead yourself. If
42:23
that's not in lock step with your business growth, one or the other is going to stall. And so you can call it mindset, you can call it, you know,
42:29
belief, you can call it what you want, but it's really self leadership. And so when you are at these stages like
42:36
like for example, when you're um the emerging entrepreneur and you're you're building that that foundation of your business,
42:42
you also have to be building the foundation of your leadership. And so most people at that early level are
42:48
feeling um lost. you know, they're feeling unseen. They are
42:55
trying to figure out what their identity is. They need that confidence building. They need that vision clarification. Um
43:02
and and the work comes down to, you know, um reclaiming that voice, you
43:07
know, setting boundaries with yourself. So, not just this is what I'm going to do and this is the time I'm going to
43:12
spend, but also the boundaries of like I'm not going to believe that anymore, right? This is where self leadership
43:19
begins. And when you move to awakened, when you've actually got a a viable business going, that's when that
43:25
imposttor syndrome kicks in, right? When you get to level two of um what do I I
43:30
call it like this is now where your visibility starts to become a thing and people start to notice you. Imposter syndrome kicks in and and so
43:38
now you have to like actually start to have conviction in your values and you have to start embracing, oh my god, you
43:44
have to start embracing the fact that you're actually an expert at something, right? There's all of that mindset stuff
43:50
that comes with it. And so they kind of go hand in hand. And so the big aha
43:55
moment I had last week was you can't do one or the other. You have to do them both at the same
44:01
time. And that is the only way that it all works seamlessly. Because on paper
44:08
your business might look great, but if you're waking up every day going, I I got here through sheer will and luck.
44:14
Well, that's that's a problem. We need to fix that mindset. Right. So, if you and I know you you know this
44:21
about me, but if you've been listening to my podcast for any length of time, you'll know that I have a huge issue with mindset coaching.
44:28
Um, but mainstream mindset coaching, right? The just just high vibe and you
44:33
will have whatever you want. No, mindset is super important, but it has to be
44:39
done intentionally and it has to be done with a purpose. Yeah. And there has to be an outcome like an an actual ROI to that. And like how do
44:46
you me and I think this is why so many people love mindset coaching. And again, this is going to make some people mad.
44:53
Feel free to send me letters. Absolutely fine. I love fire. I burn things. Um but
Wins Journals, Self-Belief, and Measuring Growth
45:00
the ROI of mindset is really hard to determine and a lot of people don't ask
45:07
for it. Like you just I just feel better magically one day. No, no, no, no, no. It's something you can actually track
45:12
and it's something that again you have to put the work in. I have this conversation with my with my teenager
45:17
all the time. It's like if you really want a thing, you need to actually track it
45:23
because I think you've said it, right? Like you don't know what to change if you're not keeping track of what's what's actually going on.
45:28
Yeah. You can't measure what you don't track. That part. Yeah. Or you can't Yeah.
45:33
Yeah. You can't grow what you don't measure. Exactly. So, you know, it's it's why do
45:38
why do parents have that ruler thing on the wall? Because you don't know if your kids are growing unless you're tracking it. It's
45:44
the same thing with you. If you're not tracking your growth, how do you know if you're growing?
45:49
You know, so one of the things that I've implemented for her, uh, and it's something that I've been doing years for years in my business. It's, um, keeping
45:56
a wins journal. Every Friday, she does this every night. It's in it's in her alarm to do it every
46:03
night. But every Friday, I take 15 minutes. That's it. Friday morning, I do
46:09
my weekly admin and I pull out my wins journal and I log all of the great
46:15
things that happened this week. Not all of them are business. Sometimes it's like, I had the best freaking cup of
46:22
coffee yesterday because I put the perfect amount of cream. Like whatever, right? Like whatever made you feel really good that
46:28
week. Yeah. Because when you go back when you're having a bad day or a bad stretch of
46:34
days and you're like, I suck at this. M I should not be doing this. I should burn it all down. You open that wins
46:41
journal. You go, actually, look at all the progress I've made. Yeah, it's so good. And it's so real.
46:48
Like, I had a little calendar journal and and there's there's two sides to
46:53
this. There's the writing it down so that it sticks, but also writing it down. There's something different that's
46:59
happening when it's in your head versus when you're actually seeing it written down concrete, right? So, I used
47:07
to have to-do lists and I would write out all these things I needed to do and if I didn't check them off, I
47:13
felt bad. What I started doing was I started having like five things max I needed to do this week if I wanted to
47:19
feel accomplished. And anything else that happened along that way, any side quests I took were bonuses. And so what
47:25
happened was I would eventually get that thing done, but I would take note of, you know, even the the moments where I
47:32
had good coffee or I made good food or I made a connection or I, you know, a god kiss happened in my life, I would take
47:38
note of all those and then I realized there was a lot more cool stuff happening because if you're only looking at your to-do list
47:44
and it's overwhelming and it's all these huge things that either someone else has told you to do or you think you need to
47:50
do and you don't really want to do them and you don't do that,
47:56
It's really hard to see how much you actually have done. Absolutely.
48:01
When I stopped tracking, when I stopped celebrating my wins, when I stopped tracking everything I did, I started
48:07
noticing myself getting depressed. Yeah. And it's it's so important. So,
48:15
you're going to say something and I know it's really good. No, I was just going to say like from a
48:21
psychological perspective um because Sarah was a psychology minor in university um
48:27
our brain's job is to keep us safe and so it is programmed to seek out all the
48:33
negative because if it keeps track of all of the negative it can keep you safe from it
48:41
and so it deprioritizes all of the good things that are h which is why it's so important to write them down record
48:48
somewhere. It is absolutely critical to your development and to your mental health, especially in this day and age
48:55
when we are just bombarded with fear,
49:00
war, horrible things, right? Because now in addition to all of our own internal
49:06
terrible thoughts, we have the entire world's thoughts at our fingertips. So yeah, we can say like, you know,
49:12
disconnect from your phone and blah blah blah. Write down those moments of joy.
49:20
Man, Sarah, if we had a mic to drop,
49:25
that would have been the moment to drop it. Listen, we got four minutes left before
49:31
you you need to be mom again. What is it? Two questions left. So, what
Final Encouragement: You Are Worthy of Your Dreams
49:39
is one thing you want to tell to the listener that's watching this today? that you haven't already said.
49:49
Gosh, so many things I want to say. Um,
49:54
oh, you know, I want you to remember that you are
50:01
loved and that you are worthy of every single
50:07
dream that you have. And you just you've just got to believe
50:14
in yourself. And if you don't have the capacity to do that, come hang out with me and Greg. We will believe in you
50:21
until you believe in yourself. There's those tears.
50:28
Girl, I felt that with every fiber of my being, and I'll second that. Like, you
50:37
are greater. Like you you have to see yourself
50:43
through the lens that everyone else sees you through because everyone else can see it but you. Yeah. And so if you need to borrow someone's
50:50
belief, as Sarah said, come hang out with us. Come hang out with us. I wish someone had told me that. I I
50:55
needed someone to tell me that last year when everything was falling apart and no one did. So, I I had to reach out
51:02
to people, you know, to to remember that what oh, it's it's there's not enough
51:09
time for me to start crying, but like it's it's the people in my inner circle that kept me going, right?
51:15
And so, I just I I really felt like that was something that needed to be said because I'm sure there are people out there, they're like, I just don't know
51:20
what the hell I'm even doing anymore. It's okay. You'll figure it out.
Where to Find Sarah Khan
51:25
Amen. I'm 15 years in. I'm still figuring it out. So give yourself a little bit of grace. Okay,
51:31
that part girl. Okay, and the last question, where can they find Sarah Khan
51:37
everywhere? No. Uh, you can find me on pretty much all
51:42
the socials um as Sarah Con out loud. Um, my favorite places to hang out are
51:49
Instagram. Um, I've been a little bit lax lately because I do have a full-time job again, just cuz I needed I needed to
51:55
like test my brain in a different way. Um, so I haven't been as active on social lately, but I'm I'm trying to get
52:00
back at it now that the kids are in school. Um, so Instagram is my favorite place to be. If you want to hear my more
52:06
unhinged random thoughts, Facebook's a good place to go. Um, but the best place to get me is on Substack now. And uh,
52:14
also my podcast, which is coming back in October. So man, I can't wait. My podcast is
52:21
incredible. Business Blasphemy season 4. I think we're I think. I can't remember. It's
52:28
like time is a flat circle and it's all a blur, but it's it's good. We're over 116 episodes in. So,
52:34
wow. Come hang out. Yeah, definitely. Um I'm going to put that in the show notes for for them to
52:40
find you. And this has been this has been incredible.
52:46
My eyes started sweating. I know there's been tears um and and lots of light
52:51
bulbs that have gone off here, but I want to thank you for coming on the show today, Sarah. Um and giving your time,
52:58
wisdom, experience, strength, and hope. And we are going to do this again because every time we get together,
53:06
amazing things happen. I would love to anytime for you, my friend. Anytime. Thank you. Thank you. I'm g play this
53:13
outro song because I actually made this and it's really fun and it just makes me so happy.
53:22
It just sounds so official, right? Cuz I love
53:30
All right, I'll stop the recording right there. We'll see you on the next episode.