Skip Capone

The longtime high school and college coach, currently the coach of Cheverus football, talks about the new landscape of college recruiting and what it means for high school players and their hopes and dreams. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Report crediting is proud to sponsor Hoffers High School Sports, demonstrating our commitment to supporting many young athletes both in the classroom and on the field. We invite you to celebrate our dedication and achievements by tuning into Hoffers High School Sports Podcast and visiting its website for the most comprehensive coverage of local high school sports. For all of our podcasts, as well as a lot of articles, features, polls, and more. Feel free to visit our website at Hoffers High SchoolSports.com. Welcome into another edition of the Hoffers High School Sports Podcast. Michael Hoffer with Tim Eisenhart here as well. And Tim, we're into the month of April. Can you believe that's the best?

SPEAKER_03 0:43

I just love it. I know where your mind is going. It's just the best.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Yeah, so I mean, as as this airs, we're very close to things getting going, and it's it's gonna be a fun spring season, no cluttering about it. Uh you're gonna look forward to not only baseball but softball and some great lacrosse action too. So yeah, it's almost time to get busy again. I've been slacking for a while. Yeah, seriously, what have you been done?

SPEAKER_03 1:16

You're unshaven, you're uncovered. Let's pull up with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Yes, I know I need to return to the tower and the racer, and that that will all happen in in good good time. But so this week uh kind of going uh instead of a seasonal podcast, uh had a chance to sit down with Skip upon a long, long time football coach in the area, uh including the last couple of seasons that everything. And you know, he just wanted to talk about how difficult it's becoming for high school athletes to get recruited now because of the whole NIL situation in college. You know, college coaches aren't looking as much at the high school athletes. They're more interested in you know bringing in kids that already have played at the college level, getting more of a proven uh entity, if you will, and it's certainly uh it you know affecting how uh high school athletes are getting an opportunity to play in college. So he had a lot of insight on that.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

I mean, he's got uh years and years of wisdom and experience. He's seen the the full evolution of recruitment having coached at Bates and Lutheran and now he's at Chevros, but he's been coaching a long time. So if anybody's gonna be an expert in that subject, it's gotta be him because how many how many college or high school kids did he talk to about going to Bates or many, many. Yeah, and now it's the complexion has changed with NIL, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Yeah, it's I mean it's changed dramatically, but it w it's not all negative either. You know, we we had a chance to talk about you know how maybe there are some new avenues of opportunities too for athletes. But you know, no question about it, it's changed, and you know, I don't think you're getting that toothpaste back in the tube anytime soon. And uh so it's really kind of an enlightening conversation about where things are headed and where things are right now. And of course, you know, like you say, he would know he was at Bates forever, he coached at Lewiston for a long, long time, uh now he's the head coach at Coverists, and you know they've been very competitive here these last couple seasons, and they should be again this coming fall.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

But I was uh been impressed with with uh coach Capone is his his ability to communicate with kids, even to this day. I mean he's not a he's not a young man. But uh you can see his experience coming out. Like he knows he knows that kids are kids are kids, they haven't changed that much. That's one thing we talked about and he's uh yeah, I I I used to I watched him coach when I was uh coaching a Bowden for a couple years. I watched him coach a couple football games, and I remember specifically seeing him, because he's a very distinct human being. Uh-huh. Watching him communicate from a distance, you could tell it was a positive conversation. You saw the kid's shoulders come back, and you could tell he's an impressive guy. And uh I've had a chance to talk to him a couple times. He's he's a good dude.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

He is genuine, very passionate, wants the best for everybody involved, and uh no, it was a great conversation, and uh hopefully everyone will enjoy it. I'm honored to be joined this week by Coach Skip Capone, the Shelbur's football coach, who's worn a lot of hats over the years, coached in a lot of different places, high school, college level. I'm gonna talk about his great career and the the status, really the the impetus of this uh podcast this week is to talk about the status of recruiting, college recruiting, how it affects high school athletes, how things have changed here uh in the last couple of years. But coach, as always, it's great to see you. Thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Mike, it's a pleasure, and I love always you know you know my relationship with you and what I what I what you've done for high school sports, and uh it's it's just amazing. It really is. Appreciate you and thank you. That's why I'm here. Let's let's go.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

All right, no, I appreciate the kind words. My my experience is certainly uh dwarfed by yours over the years. I'm I'm not gonna say that. I'm not gonna say that. I I don't get to do too many of these with someone that is older than me, so it is kind of nice. Um, just you've been involved in athletics your whole life, I'm guessing. Yeah. What what what did I mean growing up, what was it, the the big three sports, or what what did you do?

SPEAKER_00 4:56

I played football, basketball, baseball. Uh I was a street kid. I played in Postman High School. Okay. And uh my family didn't have a whole lot. Uh my dad was a commercial fisherman, so I I was on the I was on the working waterfront as a kid. And I had a string of traps when I was twelve. Wow. Uh, you know, and just did a lot of that stuff because you know, you do what you have to do. And uh blessed that coming up through at the high school, you know, whether it was youth level, little league, and then obviously the high school level, I was blessed to have some great coaches that gave me a chance. I wasn't the kid from the the cool group. I was a kid from downtown that worked his butt off and was happy for it. And uh my coaches gave me a chance, especially my high school football coach who ironically I just got a text from about 20 minutes ago. So we still stay in touch, and he he opened a lot of doors for me, gave me a chance to play, and uh gave me a great experience, and I had the same fortune when I went to Puma State.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

You know, I worked for a uh guy who was a whole lot older than I was, and uh Tom Bell was a great dude and helped me, encouraged me to get into coaching, and I just felt like it was something I want to do and been doing it for close to fifty years now. So it's been very rewarding and a whole lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

So, what how did the coaching career get started?

SPEAKER_00 6:05

I had I had a choice to make, you know, I had a choice coming out of college whether I was gonna be a commercial fisherman with my dad or I was gonna go into into coaching, and I just had I just had a love for it and had a long conversation like you and I right now with my father, and he said, uh, you gotta do what you gotta do. And unfortunately, uh three or four later he passed away. And uh suddenly you look back and you go, wow, maybe if I whatever. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Uh at that point I just I knew this is what uh what I was destined to do, and it was always been a lot of fun. People have told me I'm pretty good at it. I have some great mentors, uh you know, coming up through whether it's the high school or the college level, uh and the journey's taking me a lot of different places, and I settled in Lewiston with my family in 1983, and it's been amazing.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Right. So you you you spent a good chunk of time coaching football at Lewiston, correct? Yes, I did. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

I was there for 14 years.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Uh we had a lot of success. Uh got got to a couple of state games. You know, the last ten years I think we were there, we were in the tournament, which is back then a lot of times it was only taught 14 years. Right. And I was blessed with a lot of time and some great coaches, I'll be honest with you. I'm not the the smartest guy, X's nose wise, but I I can judge the character of people, and I was fortunate to have some amazing guys think that they could, you know, uh work with with me and help our kids. And many of them went on to be, you know, athletic directors, principals, successful coaches in their own program, and and they do a different work in the same situation I've been at Chevrolet's with the veteran staff that I have. Um you can't do it by yourself. Right. You know, and I was just very blessed, you know. Yeah. And I just some things happen near the end of my tenure. I just I needed to take a step back. And I thought I was gonna take a year off, and Coach from Bates gave me a shout. And uh that staff was only together for a year, and then I you know, I had a professional relationship with Mark Ariman, a Westburg guy who who had been at Maine and Princeton and Harvard, and they hired him as head coach, and he was thought I could offer something to the program, and I was there with him for 21 years, and uh it was it was a it was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Was it a tough adjustment going from the high school level to coaching and coaching?

SPEAKER_00 8:15

And college being at the high school level helped me.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

You know, trying to you know, because you you're talking about working with freshmen and sophomores, and I thought it gave me a little better perspective in some some ways. Uh it was the different perspective for me, one thing else was the fact that I'm no longer the head coach. And uh at that time we didn't have a whole lot didn't have a whole lot during the summertime as opposed to the way it is now when you do it seven to seven, you know, the weight room, the whole thing. Uh that was that was good, you know, good for my family. Good for me to be professionally. I've had an opportunity to meet some amazing people. You know, we had a you know, you don't think of Bates as being like a becker of of developing coaches. We've got twenty to thirty guys right now for anywhere from the NFL level to division three, you know, and uh you know, market quick resource and whatever I did in terms of mentoring young guys and stuff like that, it was and they they they all made me better. Just like when I came into the SMAA, you know, first coach I met was Michael Andrew.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Some of the blisters may not know who Michael Andrew is, but he's probably the between him and John Wolfgrimm, and you throw on top of that Bob Cody. Yeah. You know, you talk about uh Dick Agresse, yeah, some legends. If you weren't prepared, and they wouldn't do it to embarrass you, but they put up 35 in the first half, you're putting up the white flag. Yeah, and so they they made me better, but we also developed a great, great relationship. I mean, John was was a close friend. Mike and I, as much as between the lines, we're gonna get we're we're gonna knock each other out, right? But after the game, I mean I one of the things I tell people all the time, I changed my preseason installation schedule after having a uh talk with Mike Lincoln. He told me, I was like, Mike, how the hell did you get all this stuff in? Because it's what we do. And it made sense, and we we got better, and we came and beat him a couple times. Finally, I told you we had that bad enter back and forth, and it's it's because it was just it was just a real uh camaraderie amongst the coach. I think it is now, but obviously back then it was uh pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Yeah, you're talking some great names, no question.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

I think I had chair, think of the guys I had chairs to coach against Gabby Bryce, you know, uhwrence, uh Pete Cooper.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

You know, I mean, and the guys in the SMAA, Ty Kerr, won the state championship. Right. Pat Carnelly at Sanford won a state championship. Of course, Bobby Cody and then Dick Agresley. I mean to think of the staffs, yeah, with John Moore. Wow. I mean, John, we always went on to Massabisa again. I guess he's back at Massabisa.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah, sounds like it.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Uh so it's there's just some great, great coaches, and uh, you look back on it and go, wow, it's uh pretty blessed. Had a little bit of success.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Yeah. You know, and uh been great. And did you coach other sports as well?

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yeah, Lewis and I coached about JB baseball. Okay. I was head track coach with over a period of ten years, probably five or six of those uh on both the boys and the girls' side. And I coached Girls Lacrosse as a head coach for three years. Yeah. Took a team that had never been to the playoffs, and in my third year we were in the East MA final.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Only because they had great assistants. We did have some great players, you know, and I I say that all the time. That's a big part of it. I remember going in and saying, ladies, if you know they knew I was getting closer to my chin guys. You all know what a bucket list is. If if I listed the hundredth thing in my bucket list, you know, being the head girls across coach, you know, lose, no disrespect to you guys, we're like 120. They all started laughing. We're gonna learn together. I'm not gonna lie to you and say, I know everything. We've got we're gonna I'm gonna coach you hard and go from there, and you got some success. And I was again blessed. There were a lot of real good girls playing lacrosse at that time, and they took the coaching. Yeah, and uh roll the dice and both seven.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

I thought Matt Perkins was the only one that that went that route from football, the girls at the time. That's that's funny and he won a state title last year.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Uh ironically, but the last two years we we won our first playoff game, we beat Windows, it was really good, and we did the same thing when we went to the Eastern May Final, but it was it was always a competitive game. It was kind of cool. You know, dude, what do we do against it? Right. And laugh, and it was good stuff, you know. And I and that was while I was still coaching at Bates. I just felt like if I wasn't gonna be that's right, I gone from being a f I retired from Lewiston and took the what was I'd been part-time at Bates with a full-time role, whatever. Uh I had a chance to go over there full-time to finish out my career. So if I'm not gonna be in the building every day, I really feel like I'm doing the kids a disservice. I just I our our all our slogan was all in. Sure. All in. And if I'm not if I can't do it, how do I expect the kids? So uh I I left after that third season, just finish out over over at Bates coaching, just uh just football.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

And blessed. Done basketball officiating for a long time? Almost 40 years, uh-huh. Still doing it?

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Yeah, still a blast? Still get yelled at, it's okay. Love it. You've you've heard of you.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I've I've been there, yeah, no doubt. So what what made you make the plunge and come back to coaching a high school football program coming to Shovers here a couple years ago?

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Uh part of it was you know, because I I'd been coaching at Portland at my left uh Bates. Jason McLeod called me and said, What do you think? Hey, I I'm I knew I'm gonna coach someplace. Love love him, love our relationship goes back, I mean, a long, long time. And ironically, when uh Mike had to take us in my ATS from uh from coaching, he was a basket or football referee. And the year that my son's team had a little play for the regional championship up at the Yellow, my son's a free safety, and Mike was the back judge. And they had a conversation going. I'm sure, you know, Mike talked about it. But no, that that we we just had we had a great rapport, great relationship. You know, we all it was a real collaboration. And then, you know, the some things happened. It's Portland's not the easiest place to coach, and Jason was a little frustrated, and it was we all were with facilities and things like that. Uh so we we were looking, we're gonna figure out what we're gonna do, and I kind of took a year off, and then there were a couple of jobs open, and I I Chevers kind of intrigued me. Uh didn't know what it what to expect. Other than Dan Costing and really didn't know anybody came down and had a you know, we had two or three conversations over a period of about a month, and I felt like it was number one, it was a good uh felt like it'd be a good fit for me, you know, what I was looking for. Uh more and just importantly, I felt like I still had the enough energy and with with a good coaching staff, yeah, you know, uh veteran staff, but I didn't have to worry about coaching coaches and doing what needs to be done in the building. So, you know, those guys take a lot off my plate, and I can focus on the other stuff that to quite frankly make their job as as easy as I can. You know, and uh so it was it was made, I think Chevrolets felt the same way. Uh you know, we just need to sort of imagine kind of work out and having a blast and trying to get better every day.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

I always like the ask veteran coaches this, but do you feel like kids have changed, or is it just how society has changed?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yeah. Kids are still because they want to get coached. Uh is there a little bit more on their plate? Absolutely. Uh by the same token, you know, we hold our kids to a pretty high standard. Right. Uh I think my perspective has changed from when I was back at Lewis. Uh just having you more understanding. You go through some things during your life that put a little things little things in perspective and have had a couple of those things happen. And uh you build from that, you learn from that. And uh you know, I think if kids know you care, then uh they'll they'll run through a wall for you. I think we see that situation here. I mean, uh not perfect. Right. You know, we're constantly adjusting, but I don't think it's you know, I think some some of our adults have changed to it to a little degree, but you know, I don't see it as a huge issue. For me personally, never has been. You know, been lucky, I guess.

unknown 15:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

You know?

unknown 16:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

And you've got the program is very competitive. You guys are very compet you're in a very competitive league. And you're gonna have a nice home turf field next year, so a lot a lot of good things going on.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

But you know, you never when they talked about getting turf at baits for the first 15 years I was going to tell you. Whatever was. And say they're going to the ninth game. You know, you you can't worry about it. You know, you just if it happens, great. If it doesn't, we're still gonna we're still gonna put a competitive team out there. Uh you know, so that was so that was certainly it's nice, especially after playing eight road games last year. Nine but at the end of the day, it's uh it's still it's just fun. Yeah you know, and I just feel like I'd be uh be selfish if I didn't continue to to give back to a game that's been really, really good to me. Yeah. Really has been, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

So let's I mean let's talk about the issue at hand, and it's getting harder and harder for high school athletes to find spots to play in college. And there are reasons for that, and I mean feel free to elaborate as much as you like. But I know you're very involved with this, and and it it's kind of a tenuous situation right now.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Anyone who knows me knows I've been advocating for many kids, particularly football players, but I've also, you know, a basketball coach might be, hey, what do you think about this kid? Have you seen him or whatever? But mostly football players. Uh anything who haven't been around, yeah, developed a lot of relationships, whether it's guys that I've coached with at Bates or you develop relationships at camps and stuff like that. Uh I've been learning a long time ago that you know the reputation means everything. So if someone asks me about a kid, I'm going to be honest. And if I know a kid that's a good player and a good kid, then I'm going to go out of my way to, if I see a coach or I would make a phone call and say, listen, and I've had a number of, you know, it's just what we do. And again, I'd be selfish if I didn't do that. You look at the coaching landscape now in every state, but in particular Maine, the turnover has been so dramatic that a lot of coaches don't understand what they have to do to advocate for their kids. Coaches aren't going to call a lot because they don't know what kind of feedback you're going to get from that particular coach. They get it from me, it's going to be on day you can either play, a good character or not. So I I I'm dealing with high school college coaches year-round. And in particular this year with AJ. Uh he he certainly has an opportunity. But I think what we've seen over the last 15 years, everything has speeded up quite a bit. Uh used to be that you know you'd you'd have you might see a kid in a camp in the summertime, they'd visit your school, and I'm talking about whether it's an LSU or Bates in the in the fall, and then they had that first signing date, the big signing date was in February, and the ESPN had their list. So they have 25 kids, teams are getting 25 freshmen. Well, that that slowly, they're still taking that number, but they were they were they were making getting their commitments earlier and earlier. You know, one of the last years I was in Bates, I was talking to the offensive line coach at Harvard. Now, Harvard's the elite school in the country. Very good football program, very good athletic program. They go, coach, you know, we're down to doing a prospect camp in July. I go, Coach, well I skip we've got two spots left out of 25 in July. I mean, that would have been unheard of five years before. So that that keep keep keep trying to keep up with that. But I think the biggest thing now, quite frankly, is the portal.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

And that has dramatically changed the landscape. Uh at the end of the day, in Division I, as hard as it is for me to say this, your number one responsibility is to win. And the higher the higher you go in division one, the less perspective they have, the less time they're going to give you. So if I'm I'm I'm I'm a coach, I've got to take care of my family, okay, I have to win. How do I do that? Do I take a chance with an 18-year-old high school kid who has never played above his age group, whether it's in high school, travel, whatever it is, uh, and I have to project where he's gonna play as a freshman. No, he's probably not gonna play for me. Right. So is he gonna be is he or she gonna be good enough as a sophomore? Okay? Are they gonna get on campus and all of a sudden they have to compete every single day? It's not like high school. And I must say, kids think they work hard. They do. But it's different. Like I tell when I used to tell the kids it baits, is you know you work hard in the practice, is that compare that to your biggest rival. You know, you got Benefit Thornton or Paul and Deering, and you're playing against a dude. How hard are you gonna work? Yeah, yeah, coach, I get you. That's what it's like every day in in college, whether you're playing at Bates, Maine, or LSU, it doesn't matter. You've got to compete every day. And then you they you've got to hope you develop. So am I gonna put my state, my future, on an 18-year-old who, away from home for the first time, all those things that freshmen have to go through, and are they gonna develop what I think? Well, can I go in the portal and look at it at a junior or even a sophomore or a junior from a similar level or a lower level school, Division II, even Division III. And I I look, I'm looking, and I'm looking specifically for a need. I'm looking for a right tackle, I'm looking for a point guard, I'm looking for a left-handed pitcher that throws 90.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

I can go in the portal.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

That's who I want. And I can project right now, look at based on the competition that he's playing against. He's gonna come in tomorrow and make us better.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

And he so what? So you only have him for two years. Guess what? In two years I do the same thing. You know, I mean, I know there are a number of schools right now in multiple sports that are no longer recruiting our kids.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

They'll they'll go on the portal, they'll they'll communicate via you know, via the internet, things like that, and they'll they they'll invite kids. Because again, why am I going to do all that traveling looking for freshmen when I'm only gonna take two or three? And if I get a real good one, I'm gonna lose them in two years. You know, I mean it's uh and it doesn't matter whether they're coming from from division three or not. I'll share a story. I spent some time, a lot of time at the University of New Hampshire, yeah, especially after I get done at base, and there was a young That I've seen through the recruiting process from Wesley University, Division III NESCAP kid, Logan Thompson, outstanding receiver. Well, he decides that after his journey he wants to transfer. Because if he gets in, you know, it's just pretty cool if he does. So I get on, and ironically, Brian Scott from Waterville was their role C. So I get on in the springs. How's the kid from Wesley doing the coach? He is the second most explosive kid in our program. The kid ahead of him was a kid by the name of Dylan Warby who got drafted by the Raiders.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

So I mean, that's coming from Division III. So don't tell me it's not perfect. He ends up playing, being a great player. He ends up with a tryout with the Ravens. They didn't make it, but it just shows you that's that's where we've gone. My prediction, at talking to many college coaches, is that by the time this year's eighth-grade class comes through, I'm not sure if there's going to be any spots in Division I. That's crazy. I mean, unless you're an outlier. Right. A Cooper Flag. Right. You have a specific skill set.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Very few of those are out there. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Or maybe, maybe a bigger kid in either football or basketball, women's whatever. If you're a woman's bad, you can't cheat 6'4. If you're 6'7, 280, you might be good enough to maybe project the play as a sophomore. But I don't, we don't have time to wait anymore. So kids have to have to find alternative routes if that's where they want to go there. And the thing that I always talk about with kids that ask me questions about the recruiting process is what is the end game? In 20 years, what's gonna what is gonna help you be successful, feed your family, you know? Because I'll just be honest with you, if you no matter where you play, in i at 40, does anybody really care? I mean, seriously, yeah. If you played it, whether I don't care whether it's LSU, I mean unless you play professionally, right? But other than that, you play at Maine, you play at Bates, whatever. Um but if but if you go to the school you attend, what is it, what is their alumni network like, what is a track record of of getting a good job, or at least having choices. Yeah, you want to go someplace where they want you and where you're gonna play. Because at the end of the day, it ain't much fun sitting on a bench. No. You know? Right. And uh so that's kind of where we're at. It's too bad, it drives me crazy. I hate it. Yeah, but that just until they until they put some guardrails on the portal, and you even even we don't see a lot of junior college, but even the junior college kids now go for two years, yeah. And they come in as freshmen. I mean, it's almost almost like we uh the hockey model.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I mean, now the kids don't play as they don't come out of high school and no. So they they go to juniors and they get them when they're 22, even at in the non-scholarship situations, and it's we you know, unfortunately the NCAA didn't have that foresight, and and it I don't see it going the other direction.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

So we've got to deal with that, you know. Kids have to understand that. Also, you know, division three is pretty damn good. Right. I mean, I I encourage kids all the time. Absolutely. If you've never been to a uh baseball in in in every sport, you know the Nescaq. You're someone's in the final four in every sport. Right. No, if you want to go down to the University of New Hampshire and watch them play, uh what it doesn't matter what the sport is. You know, it's it's to play at that level, you're pretty darn good. No doubt. And uh it is. It's a full-time job. I mean, our guys at Bates work just as hard as the guys at Maine. Yeah. You know, I mean, think about this. You're high school, a football player. Going to Maine. The expectation is a week after you graduate, you're on campus. You don't get you're not going to get summer. So you're working it all summer long. Right. The season starts the last week in July and ends around Thanksgiving-ish, unless you go from the door to the playoffs. Okay? I mean, if you're if you're a if you're a a basketball player, you're still guess what, you're still on campus in the summer. You might have a little bit of free time in early September. October 1st, you're going and then To April. And you're talking about kids that have what regards what the sport is, they've probably started every game since their sophomore year. And now you're going to go to you're on the right end of the bench. Yeah. You know, if if if there's a spot for you. Is that something that, you know, I just I don't you got a dream, I'll help you. Right. But make sure you know all everything that goes into it.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

So it gets more and more challenging as time. Absolutely. So, I mean, what what advice would you give, you know, let's let's just throw Kaylon Watkins' name out there. Great freshman basketball player here at Chevras, very talented. Certainly you could see him playing at the next level.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

But what does he need to do to have that opportunity? Or someone like him?

SPEAKER_00 26:47

I think number one, get better athletically. Okay. And then continue to continue to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

And he's already pretty athletic.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

So even then, if you could be him now as a freshman, what's he going to be like as a sophomore at college? You know what I mean? Uh focus on school. Yeah. That opens a lot a lot of doors for you. Uh just keep getting better and better. And then have an alternative path to if you really dream of playing Division I, then find a school where you can play right away. You know, whether it's in Division II. I mean, you look at a couple of a couple of main kids doing a great job in in Division II, the Northeast End. Bobby Davies and uh the kid McClure from Moranda Cog.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Davies was player of the year, right? And Malig's uh McClure's been all the league a couple years in a row. I mean, now they I don't know, McClure's a little bit older. I I've heard that Davies may be looking into the portal. That's another alternative. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

You know, uh so it's almost like you have to take another step now. Right? You don't graduate from high school and go around. Yeah, and then change it. Or it's very rare.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

You know, if if you be careful who's telling you you're a Division I player. Yeah. You know, I just think that a lot of people that don't know. They have never, you know, I've lived my life on Division I campuses every spring and I'm going someplace. Uh so I think I have a pretty good grasp on what it takes to play at that level. You know, having again through multiple conversations and multiple times maybe you make a mistake or whatever it is, and go. View view a practice, go to go to games, realize exactly what you're getting in for. Because again, you're going in, even if you do get here as a freshman, everybody on that roster is one, two, or three years older than you. They know the system, they know the program. You know, uh and A can't be are you good are you ready to compete every single day? And not have mom or dad or both putting their arm around you at the end of the day, because coaches are gonna help you, but they're gonna want to do so much. You're you're an adult at that point. You know, I can't handwalk you to class, I mean that the the physical toll it takes on these kids, you know, uh when you're practicing that hard every day, and you think, well, football's a little bit your only at least you travel on the weekends. But just think about if you play soccer, you're gonna have some midweek games. Right. And by the way, they're not gonna fly you. I mean, even even in even in the big schools, yeah. You're gonna be on a bus for five to six hours and go, by the way, the next day, you've got to go to class. Right. I mean, think about what they have to do at Maine in basketball, soccer, baseball, and softball in the spring. It's not easy. Right. You know, they're into me. I mean, you're playing fifty baseball games, yeah. You know, you're not a lot of times you're not in your own bed. Right. You know, it's really a challenge. And it is no different in in the other sports. I mean, uh in the other levels, you're still doing I mean base travel, but fortunately, most of their games are are more local, but it's it's it's really a challenge. So find a place where you want it. That they they actually want you to go. Well, can you play right away? Do you have the majors that you want uh that can give you choices once you graduate? You know, don't go, no disrespect for it, don't go to a uh uh an MI uh just a WPI, engineering school, and take business, take English. I mean that's right. You're gonna go to W C I take you know, go in go into engineer, you know, if you go into Bentley, you want to be a businessman. Sure. You know, you go to Endicott the same way because that's what they specialize in, and their their alumni network are awesome.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

But at the end of the day, what's gonna help you 20 years from now? I hate to have kids look that far ahead.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Uh-huh. But it's part of the process. It is. So I mean, so this isn't all bad. I mean, there are still there are still options. It's just you have to be a little more creative.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

A little bit creative, and again, I don't want to crush anybody or be negative. It's not. It's about just being realistic and having some alternative paths to get to your your your goal, your dream. Yeah. You know, and have, okay, doesn't work or whatever. Have an alternative to still enjoy a game that you love.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

You know, which I I want every kid to have that experience. You know, that was as much as I love high school, my best my four years at Plymouth, you know, were just amazing. You're playing with at that level. In high school, there are a bunch of different reasons why kids play sport. Uh there's a core that really love that particular sport, but they're also, there's some that are playing but love another sport more. Whatever. And in in college, that's not the case. You're not, whether it's in division three or division one, if you don't have a passion, you know, you're gonna be around guys or girls that are that are passionate about that sport. You know what I mean? And uh that's important. To me, that would make a difference.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Does this do you see this leading to even more specialization in high school? Because I mean, I'm sure you agree with me that multi-sport athletes, that's a good thing. And you you hone other skills and playing other sports and you get a break from your main sport, and you know, but you've seen so much specialization in recent years.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Well, hopefully, I mean if if people realize that you can specialize all you want, but you but if there's no spots, you know, and I you know to me, I mean um, you know, I just think we we the narrative is we specialize way too soon. Way too soon. You know, and uh I think that you know just it's just give kids an opportunity. But when the narrative is you've got to play this, you gotta play that. I mean talking to you know, one of our a couple of our kids, you know, uh that aren't doing it because they don't want to give up every weekend. They want to play another sport, they want to do this, uh even if the couple one of them even he's not, he'll go, I don't want to be on the road every weekend from the middle of March until you know all summer long. It's like, you know, I want to do some other things. And that's unfortunate, that's what they're asking for. I I you know, I think overall in some areas, I mean the level of of play has gone down. I mean there's still some really elite players, you know, but no different than ever has been. I mean if you study high school basketball, I mean it does this as as a roller coaster. Exactly, you know, I mean, and uh just you gotta keep that in mind. Uh have fun, enjoy enjoy c enjoy high school. You know, I just think we we there's a but the narrative is out there, and again, we we unfortunately eliminate way too many kids at way too young an age. I mean, for no other reason for many is just money. Yeah. If I've got three young three kids that'll say eight, ten, and twelve, and they're in they're in a program, how do I pay for that? Number one, just to put them in the program. Right. Then if we're traveling every weekend, I I don't I don't understand how how you can afford that. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Um for a gamble that might not pay off. Exactly. You know, I think it's very slim odds that it's gonna pay off, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Just to get a a Division I scholarship offer is really slim.

unknown 33:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

I mean, just to play at the next level, you know, you ask yourself, I mean, I see a lot of kids that have done a lot of this stuff, and then they end up with the movement anyways. Right. That's just my my two cents, and I know I'm gonna get some some some pushback from but it is what it is. You're speaking from experience, no question. Yeah, you know, I just think it's you know, I'm really happy that that hasn't that hasn't got into the game that I love. Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

But I guess, you know, on the positive side, there's more sports than ever, right? There's more opportunity for women, certainly. I think that's amazing. So there's there are there are still options out there.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Some of my guys the other day about, you know, when I was in high school, I mean there were no no women's sports. Right. I mean, and I remember having basketball where it was three on three. You had to stay on one end of the court. Yeah, and how that how and I think that's amazing. And I love the fact the kids are playing lacrosse, right? They're playing, you know, they're playing volleyball. Yeah. All those things. I mean, I think it's I love the fact that our kids are involved in sports. I think you that just you know, it teaches so much more than what you can do in the academic classroom as far as communication and a lot of great things, you know. Yeah, I love I want to have more kids be able to do that, you know, through the high school level, you know, but unfortunately they get told, well, if you don't play travel, you're not gonna make it, so they quit. Or they get burnt out. Or they burn out whatever, and they find out, geez, I'm not quite as good as a you know, I'm a star until I'm twelve. And all of a sudden, Johnny and Jim and Steve are six foot four, and I'm still five's seven. You know, I mean it's just you know, puberty isn't always good. It's not good sometimes. You know, but I love the you know, I just I love the fact that kids are involved. Yeah. I just wish there was a little less specialization. I mean, for the some some kids, maybe it's the right path, but unfortunately, not for all. That's just my feelings, you know. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

So how about you? How how long you I know this keeps you young, right? I mean, it's it's something you love to be involved in. You is this something you want to do indefinitely?

SPEAKER_00 35:40

I I I was on, I've I've told everybody. When I came on, I told Amy, he said, obviously, my health is always obviously number one. Don't know how that's gonna go. I'm not gonna be the guy that takes a job for a year or two and just retires. I gave I gave Amy five years. Okay. So this is year three. You can fire me after five years. But you're locked in, yeah. I want to go for at least five. I still feel great and nothing else, the dynamics in it. I don't anticipate anything in the dynamics of the building's gonna change. Uh, and I feel like I'm still being effective. Uh I want to leave the program whenever I decide to, in a better place than when I got here. And that's not knocking anything before that. No, I think we we we went through some issues and no one's fault, and uh with COVID and all about we're back now and we'll probably be you know over fifty in the fall. Great. I took over the program, we had 23 returners. So uh I think that's helping. We're retaining kids. We have very, very few that style with us are freshmen that are no longer with us. Uh trying to do the right thing. As long as I'm effective, I feel like I'm reaching kids, and I'm and as long as it's fun. Right. I mean, that's a big part of it. I mean, if it's comes out of my dread coming down here, there you go, they're my keys. I I don't I don't see that happening either. I see it's gonna be a point where, okay, you I've taken when I take it as far as I can, and I know, like, okay, we gotta we gotta get some new blood or whatever. But right now, life is good, man.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Right, and you get to hang out with people you enjoy and you you affect young people's lives, and they they sense your passion and your enjoyment, and I think that trickles down.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

I think that's that's the way it is. You gotta you've gotta be a role model every way, and uh just trying to impact kids and give them a positive experience, hold them accountable. They want to be again, kids I don't believe kids have changed. I really do. I agree. And I and I honestly, when I was coaching the girls, they were just they were athletes coaching the same way. Right. Okay. Uh and they they loved it. I mean, I'm gonna guess I'm not gonna change. I'm gonna hold you accountable at the eyes, you know? Um, and understanding we had still had a ton of fun, and and there was one point where uh we we had I think it was the first year I was there, and we had a play day, and first screen went great. Say yeah, we weren't quite as good. I gotta I go, God, damn girls. And I go, and I said I go, I want to apologize, coach. You haven't got to apologize. We've heard worse. Okay, I'm in the right spot now. You know, and you just sometimes that happens, and it wasn't anything bad, but it's like uh I realized I was I was okay, I just keep going doing what I'm doing. But no, I guess that's a lot of fun. We're officiating the same way. The only thing that's gonna keep me refficiating is uh is my is my my legs. You know, and I like I said I I don't do the high-level games anymore. Uh I don't want to cheat. Right. Those kids are coaches. If I can't physically get in position, I'm just not gonna do it, man. Those guys work too damn hard. Yeah, you know, the kids do. And um but games that are a little bit slower, smaller gyms, uh whatever, then I I continue to get after it. And you got guys like you sit in the stands and laugh at me and what's he still doing out there? I'll get the coach. We thought you were you, I know you thought I was dead, I know, but I'm not that's okay. But they laugh, and at the end of the day, man, it's all about having fun and they're trying to be a positive force. Yeah in everything that whether it's people in this building, I mean I went up and between you and I had a talk with our admission director. This is kind of a stressful time for a gave her hug. It was appreciated what you know. I I think I try to do that with as many people as well. Yeah, absolutely. People that uh that like yourself and the other some of the sports Travis and Dave, it's just you don't hear enough. And I just think it's important, you know, whatever it means coming from a for an old guy.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Yeah, no, it means a lot. And you know, thank you for your passion and your positivity and and for uh you know sharing your thoughts on this because this is important stuff.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

So it gets kind of ironic. We've got you know the recently this year in football, so many newer coaches coming in. They're all like cycling in new ones, yeah. They're uh i it it just it's you know, I think the days of guys like myself, no, and I'm not judging or patting myself on the back, staying in it for fifty years are probably gone. I mean, you know, I go down through the the coaching ranks now in Maine, and it doesn't matter what the sport, in particular in football. I mean, there's been such a turnover in the last seven or eight years. And it's just going to continue. I mean, the the job is and I think part of it is now there are we don't have enough people in the building anymore. Like when I came to Lewiston, I had guys in the building, every sport. And now you just don't it's and I my to say that saves me is I'm retired. Right. So I can come down early. Sure. If I but if if I had a real job, that ain't happening. You know, I I'd be on the side. And it just makes that makes it that much more challenging. It's a lot of work. Football is unique uh in terms of uh skill set. Right. You know, you just can't uh have you know one coach in a lot of sports can't you'd like to have a system, it's nice to break it down, but yeah, teacher to get out of dribble and shoot. Whether he's six foot four or eight, but now you've got an offensive lineman, you got a quarterback, it's just a little bit more of a true. You gotta have a couple of other quality coaches, and it's just getting we've got a blessing in the first now in Maine. And we've gone when I started 55 coaches, 55 schools playing football. Yeah, you know, the things that we have done as a state coach associate. Now we've got eighty, eighty-two. Okay, you know, with the advent of eight man football and all we got so we got schools that I mean who would ever thought the Scarborough back way back when you were a kid, Scarborough was a soccer time.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Oh, no question, Gorham. Found at the Armadus, soccer, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

And they they got the mug, and now that's spread in in a lot of the small and have an eight man. Now you now you got kids in these some of these smaller schools have the opportunity to play a great game. Yeah. But the hard part is finding enough coaches. Right. You know, I mean, I'm blessed. You know, I've got three guys on my staff that we really was a head baseball coach, but he very easily can be a head football coach. Sure, no question. Eddie McDonough and then Jason, I mean that's not yeah, kind of hard. You know, he makes it easy for me. But some guys, and that's gonna be the challenge for these for these younger coaches trying to fill out a staff and they're all especially the guys that I know in this area, you know, um Isaiah over over at uh Cave and then uh Dylan, Brandon, I know Corey Woodson's got a Mass Visic now. Those guys are all they're all good dudes. Yeah. You know, Corey's a little bit older, but uh but again, he's he I respect the heck out of him because he he's wanted to be a head coach for years. And he finally got a opportunity in New Hampshire. He always wanted to coach at Massavisic, and the other guys, he's just you know, we'll see what happens. But they they they they're good dudes and wishing the best.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

As are you, and I wish you the best, and I thank you for taking time to tell me today.