The Apex Toastmasters Podcast
A podcast about Toastmasters, public speaking, and what makes a successful club hosted by George J. Caspar, DTM.
The Apex Toastmasters Podcast
E1: Shelly Ryder "Inaugural Episode"
Shelly Ryder is a long time member of Apex Toastmasters, joining the club in 2010. On this episode Shelly and I discuss Toastmasters in general and Apex Toastmasters in specific.
Apex Toastmasters is a President's distinguished club founded in 1996 and located in Apex, North Carolina, USA.
We meet every Thursday night at 7:00 pm at the Apex Baptist Church and online. See club website for details.
Club Website: https://www.apextoastmasters.org/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=apex%20toastmasters
Welcome to the Apex Toastmasters podcast. I am your host, George Casper. On this very first episode, recorded on Sunday, August 7th, 2025, I spoke with Shelly Ryder, a longtime member of Apex Toastmasters. Let's go to the interview. This is the inaugural episode of the Apex Toastmasters podcast. Welcome. It's a bit of an experiment. So trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, and uh how best to do this. So the only way to do it is to jump in. That's what we're doing today. So my first guest is Shelly Ryder, and uh she's present here. Hello, Shelly.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, George. Good to see you.
SPEAKER_00:Good to see you too. Um and I I just before we get started, I just want to let you know that uh I'm seeing this more as a conversation than an interview. So, you know, I I'd like to have some back and forth between the two of us. Uh and as we discussed before I started recording, uh, my first idea as before this podcast was to mind the experiment experience of older members who are more experienced members who who have been around a while and uh have fully experienced Toastmasters and specifically Apex Toastmasters. And um I I didn't want that institutional knowledge to disappear because people cycle in and out of Toastmasters and um many of the people who when I first joined uh that I considered to be you know the giants, the the leaders of the club, you know, are no longer around. Um and I think there's a lot of knowledge there that should be that would be important to preserve. So with that said, uh Shelly, can you introduce yourself?
SPEAKER_01:Sure thing. Uh hey George. Um great to see you. And I love the idea of doing this podcast. Shelly Ryder here, as you already mentioned by name. I've been with Toastmasters for well, since 2010. Um, and specifically with Apex Toastmasters. That was the first club that that I joined. More recently, I have joined uh another club, Carolina Toastmasters, where I served as their club coach for about six months. And now I've uh I've actually joined the club and I'm holding the position of VP of education to help this club grow.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Not sure what else you might want to know about me.
SPEAKER_00:No, that's that's a good introduction. Okay. Um what what do you consider to be, just in a very general sense, what do you consider the value of Toastmasters to be? Why is it important? Why is it a good experience for people to go through?
SPEAKER_01:Right. Um, so yeah, uh 15 years, almost 16 years in Toastmasters, I obviously see a lot of value with the organization. I think the biggest thing is gaining self-confidence. I think that's probably the primary benefit of Toastmasters, and that comes through just a whole big gamut of activities that a member does with the club. It's not only giving speeches that I find value in, but also helping others learn about Toastmasters and helping new members get started. So serving as a mentor is something that I really love to do. And I see a lot of other members taking on that role and getting a lot of value out of that. Building leadership skills is another important thing that Toastmasters does for us. And we do that by primarily uh taking part in the leadership activities that every club offers. So, like serving as a VP of membership or VP of education or any of the roles that um you can do in Toastmasters is really, really valuable for us. Um, so probably those are the biggest things, like gaining self-confidence and those leadership skills, I think is what's great about Toastmasters.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, and how do you what do you think? Um, how are those leaders, how are how is that confidence specifically gained? Like what what is what is the experience that generates that confidence in your mind?
SPEAKER_01:Being able to get up in front of a room full of people and speak and in a way that makes sense and gets your point across is huge. Um, I don't I don't know if it's gonna be one of your questions later about how I started in Toastmasters, but um I will illustrate very well when that question comes up what it's meant for me personally.
SPEAKER_00:Um, coincidence.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay. So yeah, um, and I think a lot of people might might be in the same boat. So back when I started, before I started in Toastmasters in my professional career, um, I was just so I I was doing lots of great things in my marketing role, um, you know, had a lot of great ideas, new initiatives, but I was so afraid to present in front of management, just absolutely petrified of public speaking. And I realized I was just holding myself back, right? I was holding myself back and for career advancement because nobody really knew what what Shelly was working on and um how great my ideas were. And so a coworker suggested that I join Toastmasters and check it out. Um, and like those first couple of speeches were just really, really difficult for me because I was like my voice was shaking and my face was super red and I was shaking. It was just awful. And you could hardly hear me because I was just, I was just, I could hardly get the words out. But finally I got through those two speeches um and got better and better and better and have gained so much confidence at work, especially, right? So I regularly present now in front of our executive team, like even our CEO have presented to him, and um it's just helped my confidence so much. And the club is so supportive. That's important too. Like early on when I was so terrible at public speaking, the club members were really supportive. I worked with a mentor. Um, so those kind of things just helped you build confidence. And it didn't take 15 years to become confident. I don't want people to think it takes that long. Uh, but yeah, just the help from the club, support from the club, and just getting up there and taking any kind of role, not even a prepared speech, but the smaller roles on the agenda are really good and help you build confidence one step at a time, too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh my experience was I I had jobs where I didn't wasn't required to present, uh, but I always loved present, being in front of people. I just always found myself in positions where I wasn't allowed to do that. Or maybe not, maybe allowed as the wrong word, but I wasn't given the opportunity to do that. Uh so and I was working from home at the time. So when I joined Toastmasters, it was it was a way to get out of my house and and to interact with people in a way that I wasn't interacting with um in my work life. And I had that fear of of speaking in front of people too. I I craved it, but I also feared it. It's which is kind of uh I don't know if any if other people experienced it in that way.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I'm sure some people did, but yeah, like people join Toastmasters for a whole variety of reasons, and being afraid of public speaking isn't always isn't always the reason, like you just pointed out, George. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00:But I I noticed that uh and it took a while, but the more I got up there and and faced that fear, it it it eventually I reached a point where it went away. Maybe not a hundred percent, but but significantly almost almost completely, almost to the point where I miss having that fear because it was exhilarating to face it and then get to the other side.
SPEAKER_01:An energy rush.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and still still giving giving prepared speeches is not my favorite thing about Toastmasters even today, after all this time. Uh I still struggle with it. I still get nervous up there, and I do not like it. I don't like that feeling. Um, but I get through it and I think I do a pretty good job. You know, it's uh I'm impressed with how far I've come.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, you're there's no question, you're you're definitely a uh speech giver that I enjoy seeing up there. Because when you see someone struggling up there, I mean it's painful. It's it can be painful. You have compassion, but it's also but there's also a feeling of uh discomfort that comes as an audience member. I know, and and as a speaker, that's I I want to avoid uh making my audience feel discomfort. And that's what that's why I always have a problem with asking questions, the audience, because I feel like that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01:Your pen pee.
SPEAKER_00:It deliberately makes them feel uncomfortable, especially when you when you leave when you're expecting an answer and and nobody's responsing, responding.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like the rhetorical questions are okay, like where it's where it's just kind of an open-ended question, and it's not like anyone is actually being looked at to answer the question. I think that's okay. Yeah. But I know what you mean about like where they're expecting an actual response.
SPEAKER_00:But there's some people who are like, no, asking questions is always good no matter what. And uh even if it creates that uncomfortable gap.
SPEAKER_01:Uh uh, well, there's no there's no one right way or wrong way to give a speech or asking, including asking questions, right? It's even even an evaluation is one person's opinion. Uh so you're welcome to your opinion, George.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, you're right, Shelly. You're right. Excuse me. Okay. Um so you so you you mentioned you were a member of Carolina Club as well as Apex, and I'm I'm sure you've been exposed to other clubs along the way. So what what do you find that's specifically unique about Apex Toastmasters that that other clubs may or may not uh you know provide that experience?
SPEAKER_01:It's the vibe. It's just the the feeling of being in the room with that club is different from at least at least it's different from Carolina Club. I admittedly have not been to any other Toastmasters club meetings um in all of my time in Toastmasters, except for Carolina. So the only comparison I can make is that one. But just the people just seem happy to be there. Lots of people get there early. There's conversation before the meeting starts. Um, there's laughter in the room during the meeting, not just from a prepared speech that was supposed to be funny, but other things that happen during the meeting randomly, you know, will be funny and people laugh and they're comfortable together. It seems like people are kind of friends or happy to see each other. They catch up on uh their lives. It's there's just a really good vibe with the club. And afterwards, there's lots of talking and um people hanging out. And I also see a lot of our members talk to guests who have come and not just officers talking to guests, but even other club members stepping in and sharing their experience about the club, how positive it's been for them. Um, it's just an amazing vibe. That's what that's how I would sum it up.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, and and yeah, I from my perspective, um, I feel like the what makes the club uh uh a good experience for especially for new members is is that it's well established and people know what they're doing and people are trying. They see the example of of people being assigned roles and and fulfilling their their role, not dropping out at the last second, and and also giving quality uh presentations too, which is and evaluations, those are important too.
SPEAKER_01:We give really good evaluations in our club.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and I've experienced other clubs where that wasn't the case, and it it's you know we we talk about uh clubs needing to reach a critical mass of of participation, and until you reach that point, it's a it's kind of a struggle, and nobody wants to be involved in a struggle. You know, you know, it could it can be challenging and maybe you're up for the challenge, but but if you if you're looking for a place to grow and evolve, you want that to be um, you want the structure to be in place and and seasoned, I guess. Exactly. Yeah. So what leadership roles have you held uh in your experience uh with Toastmasters?
SPEAKER_01:Um so I've held I've held all of the officer roles, you know, and in the club officer roles. Um, and then I just served, uh, as I mentioned, I just served as a club coach for a struggling club, which was Carrie Langer.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it is that club coach role uh are you doing that to pursue a DTM or is it just to do it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's one of the requirements uh for for earning your DTM, which I don't have yet.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. I I remember talking to you a while back and you saying you weren't interested in getting getting a DTM, like that never motivated you, but it seems like something has shifted.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, just because it seems like I'm getting close and I may as well just tie this one off, right? I I'm not in a hurry for it, but heck, uh, I've been in Toastmasters 15 years. By now, lots of other members have even more than one DTM. So um, since I'm getting close, I said, okay, let's just let's just finish this off finally.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. I I've talked to other people who uh held that view too that that you know they just weren't motivated to reach those levels.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and I for me I'm the complete opposite. Like when I first joined, I saw that DTM was was something to aspire to that uh just focused on that. And yeah, and so I I don't know. I I I don't know what the point of that bringing that up is, other than you know, there's different people, different people have different motivations, I guess.
SPEAKER_01:That yeah, exactly. Like and like just in general, I'm not one of those kind of goal-seeking people, you know, people talk about uh bucket list, what's on your bucket list? I don't really have a bucket list, and and you know, maybe it's bad, but when if I were to if someone were to say, where do you want to be in your career in five years? Meh, I I'm not, I don't have like, I need to be VP of marketing and uh nope, that's just not who I am. And so yeah, the DTM attainment was not is not and still is not a high priority for me. Um, I'm very much a grassroots club kind of supporter. The Toastmasters for me is about participating in the club and helping club members. I'm not very focused on things outside of the club.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I get that. My experience with above club member or club level leadership uh has been mixed. I I didn't really I was uh area director for a while, and that was as far as I wanted to go in terms of that. But there are other people who are very uh motivated to pursue above the club level leadership roles. Uh and I've found that those types of people are generally not uh how do I say this delicately, are generally not the type of people that makes Toastmasters compelling for me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I I think I know what you're saying, yes.
SPEAKER_00:And nothing against those people, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but some people are very interested in you know serving outside the club and climbing up the ladder in Toastmasters uh for for kind of personal recognition and personal satisfaction and gain. And I guess that's not at least that's not where it sounds like you and me are.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um, and and honestly, I don't know that I see the value of like I I don't know that the area director really helps the clubs function all that much better. I I don't know that the division director helps clubs function all that much better. Uh so I mean I guess you have to have that structure, especially if you want to have um contests that that go to the you know the worldwide level.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But I I don't know. I I mean uh it's it's not my purpose here to badmouth uh the upper levels of Toastmasters. Uh it feels like it's heading that way, but um you can edit it out if you need to, George. Yeah. Tell me if I'm saying something out of line.
SPEAKER_01:I don't always know when I what I would love to see is is the ability. I don't know if you have a question planned on this or not, George, but the education program, the education program for Toastmasters needs improvement, right? I think this is a widely held view by many folks that the pathways program is not ideal. Um especially when you have finished one path and and you want to continue in Toastmasters, there's very low motivation, in my opinion, because of all the repetition you have to do to start a new path. Um, but when I think about opportunities outside of the club, the one thing that would interest me is being able to directly impact the future of their education programs. Right. And I think I don't think that you get that from being an area governor or area director. I I don't like I think that Toastmasters International needs to do a better job of getting feedback from members and club officers and maybe longtime Toastmasters on the future of their education program. I would love to see some opportunities there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I agree. I and I agree with the point that um Pathways is not, I mean, for for me, I was perfectly happy with the with the older version where you had the booklets and people, you know, you people wrote in your the evaluators actually wrote in your book. Um I don't I don't know like there's there seems to be like a a fetish with making everything online and and virtual or at least involving that and to some degree. And I always thought saw that the power of Toastmasters was uh face-to-face meeting, actual people in in actual physical locations and and you know the the fear of of giving a speech in front of a room full of people is significantly different than the fear of giving a speech to uh all these boxes of people on a screen, you know, in a zoom meeting. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:It it's just a different experience than and so is I would add to that, so is the so is the experience of giving a speech without slides. Uh so I see I see speeches a lot of times that depend on slides. And honestly, sometimes the slides are more like the speaker's notes. They're and and and they actually read the bullets from the sc the slides. So I think just extending on that idea of in-person, I think slides. I I mean that's another thing Apex Toastmasters does not do much of at all, which I love. There are not a lot of speeches that have slides. Um, so that's good. Didn't mean to interrupt though, George.
SPEAKER_00:No, it just seemed related. Yeah, no, and that's how I want this to go. I want it to be back and forth. I don't want you to feel like you have to wait for me to ask a question to you know to address something that you want to bring up.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um but yeah, so um so I found that so now we have hybrid meetings. So it it's most people are in the room, but there's also a screen and people can join virtually. And I found and here's another topic that you know might step on somebody's toes. Uh, but that just makes the meeting a different experience than in in my opinion. Like we a meeting that's completely in a room, you know, with no virtual component is is different than a meeting than a hybrid meeting. And and we sort of lost that and the ability to have that now that we have hybrid meetings. Uh and I I don't know what the I mean, I don't see us ever going back to just completely in-room meetings. Uh and that it's kind of there's a little bit aspect of that that that's a shame, uh, it feels like. Uh and and there's a connection here between pathways and and the legacy program that was a booklet. Like there's I I I feel like the people behind pathways, uh it it's their opinion that you know, if it's not somehow uh connected to the internet, then it's not modern and and uh is therefore less valuable. But I I I don't agree with that. I I there was there was a value to having everything face to face, having booklets that you could hold in your hand. There was value to that, and I the it's it's been lost a little bit, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I personally I'm not so much bothered by the online aspect of pathways by itself, like the education program as um accessing the materials online versus printed is okay for me. Um, but what I what I don't like is as I mentioned before, is like that you have to repeat. So if you if you finish path number, whatever, path one, right? And you want to start a new path, you have to repeat levels one, two, and their projects are the same in level one, they're identical in level one. Um so I I think it would be great if as an experienced Toastmaster who has finished one path, now let that person come in and start a new path, but let them pick any project from any path. Right? And make make a series of like the same, maybe the same number of projects, the same number of level threes and level fours, but let them pick any from any path, kind of like the advanced manuals used to be way back when, like you could pick from different advanced manuals and you didn't have to repeat anything that you had already done.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I liked that the way the old way was where you had that competent community communicator track, which was like the base. And I and then from there you branched out to to advanced uh I they should probably bring back something along those lines, I would think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, there's there's so many opportunities to redo pathways to be to make it to make somebody enticed to stay in Toastmasters after they finish that first path. And that's what I was just coming back to. I wish there were more opportunities for that in leadership roles in Toastmasters versus just being in the area governor or or I don't know, helping a struggling club or whatever. I wish there was a little subcommittee just on you know, pathways.
SPEAKER_00:Is there is is there a movement to shake things up in Pathways? Because they have altered pathways since it originally came out.
SPEAKER_01:So somebody must be and I think at the international conference this week, I I saw some announcements that they are making even more changes to Pathways. So I think they're open to it. Um it's just it's slow. And I think membership has been kind of on a downward trend in Toastmasters overall. Uh so I think they're it's is it too little, too late, you know? I don't know. Um but I mean, I still tell people that Toastmasters is great. I I the benefits, I try to stress the benefits of the Pathways program, which I still see as um that most speeches are about any topic that you want, except for the there's a few that are limited, like the the ones we hate the most, understanding your communication style and understanding your leadership style. Those are a little bit more limited, but just about every other um thing that you do in Toastmasters in pathways is your own, it's your own topic, which is cool. So I think there's a lot of flexibility there at least.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh there do so uh it there doesn't seem to be a channel from the club level to whatever the international level to to make these suggestions known. Yeah. Which yeah, I think would be seems like a better role for for the above club level, you know, leadership to to play than than what they do play now, which I'm not even sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm not sure who gives them the input on on pathways. Um the one thing I've done in the past is I emailed the education at toastmasters uh.org, you know, and I gave them some ideas, and I think I shared that email with you way back when, and I I got kind of a form letter response. Um, and that's probably like individual emails from members is probably not the right path, you know. Ha, that was a pun, uh the the right uh collection method, right? And and I imagine they have a lot of those, right? So, but what is what is the channel to get feedback from I don't know, a committee, or how do you get on that committee? I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because it's almost like when they they just came out with pathways, somebody on top decided what it would be, and then they forced it on everyone else. There wasn't a lot of like, I don't remember being asked what my opinion was uh on that.
SPEAKER_01:Um, or any of the things that there was there was a committee, I think Bill Marlowe was still in our club, and I I feel like he was on the it was either him or Don Don Dickinson, one of those two uh was like an ambassador for pathways, and I feel like they might have had some visibility on the strategy and the programming of pathways.
SPEAKER_00:I think you recall that. Yeah, I remember those pathway and ambassadors, and I think they were my my impression was that they were just there to make everyone uh swallow pathways. Yes, like to put a nice face on it.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, they were like facilitators and trainers and um change agents kind of there was resistance. Yes, there still is. Yeah, there is yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's resistance, but there's no way to like channel that resistance.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So there's this Facebook group. Have you found the the official Toastmasters members Facebook group?
SPEAKER_00:I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you have to like request to join it. Um, but uh I'd have sometimes wondered if I regret joining it because there's a tremendous amount of negativity about pathways in in that group. Um, and there's just regular posts about it, regular posts about it. And the other day I replied to a post because people are having good ideas, you know, that we need to they should do this and this. And I'm like, this is great, guys, but is anyone from Toastmasters International looking at this? Is like, are we making are we affecting change in any way by our complaints and our suggestions here in Facebook? What is the path to get an organized, you know, group together to be like, these are some great ideas? Let's sit down and do a workshop and let's think about you know taking our complaints into something that's meaningful. And um, but yeah, so that's that's not the way to do it because it's I I swear it's just people complaining kind of to each other. And um I don't know what the what the secret is, George.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I mean, we had mentioned before, or I had mentioned before that the people that gravitate towards the top levels of Toastmasters are are not of the same mind as the people who in, you know, like you and I who who you know are are more focused on the club level experience. But those people at the top are the ones who made bad pathways and and forced it on the clubs. And there's a disconnect there, I guess is what I'm saying. I you know, I it's not my again, it's not my purpose here to to you know badmouth Toastmasters. I I I I but I uh when I joined Toastmasters, it was such a great experience and it was so powerful for it still is powerful for me, but you know, I want to preserve that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and the other thing we need to preserve is is younger people, younger people joining Toastmasters and I would really be curious to see demographics from Toastmasters on the age of members and at like a, I don't know, a median age and how that's changed over time. Um, I feel like we're not attracting younger folks very well. Um, the program is is a little bit rigid, you know, and that depending on that club vibe, right? Like is it positive, is it fun, you know, uh that matters a lot. But I I really would love to see some data on on the age of members in Toastmasters, because I think there's a lot of folks who have been in Toastmasters a long time. I have, um, but who are also, you know, older and a little bit uh a little bit stuck in their ways, maybe, right? And um, I think that comes across to prospective uh members who are who are attending as a guest for the first time.
SPEAKER_00:So I don't have the sense that the demographics are older than when I first joined. I I feel like it's been pretty stable.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Uh it so do you you you do have a different perspective on that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think when you look, I would love to see a whole bunch of pictures of the Toastmasters International the convention right now in Philadelphia, right? And I would just love to get an idea of who's who's there and who's at the lead, who what is the age range of people that are in leadership roles at Toastmasters International? And are they are they do we have some people in their 30s, right?
SPEAKER_00:Some people are are you specifically referring to leadership people as opposed to like new members?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Leadership uh it appear it shows itself at the club level too, the people who are the president, or you know, they tend to be older members who've been around a long time. And um yeah, that's an impression that people get when they come to the club. Is is this a is this a bunch of old people, really? Is Toastmasters for old people? And you just look at the stock photos and I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:It's um I think they're a bunch of old people in in Apex, though.
SPEAKER_01:In Apex, no. I think Apex is is not is not quite that way. We have a couple, maybe, maybe we got a couple gray hair folks, but but no, not I think we have that's what I'm saying. Apex is a really great, I love how diverse it is, uh, you know, both in where people are from and the age range is really great uh for apex.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:But outside of that, like let's say we go to a TLI, right, at one of the TLI events, right? There's there's a lot of older folks in there, a lot of a lot of people in their 50s, 60s, 70s um at those events. And that's I think there's an impression that Toastmasters is for older people. I think we need to work to bring in younger folks and and keep them interested.
SPEAKER_00:How young.
SPEAKER_01:I think people that are in college, I think more people that are in college should be thinking about Toastmasters because they need to build those public speaking skills early. And when they get out and try to do interviews, they need to do a good job on how they present themselves. So yeah, I'd love to see more people in their 20s and 30s uh in Toastmasters.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Yeah. I I have no objection to that. Um, let's talk a little bit about meeting spaces, uh, like specifically the history of Apex Toastmasters as we went from one meeting space to the next. Now, now when I joined, we were in the Spring Arbor, uh, which is a retirement home. Uh and we were in their cafeteria. I mean, it it was a cafeteria, I guess, right?
SPEAKER_01:Before that, we were in, they called it the sunroom, and it was a smaller room that was removed from the cafeteria. It was down a long hallway. It was much more private, um, but it was very small. So we outgrew it. So we had to move into the the dining room. I think it was just called the dining room.
SPEAKER_00:The dining room. Okay. Uh so I I never experienced the sunroom. What what was that like?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was um it was kind of a sitting room. It uh it only held 13 people total. So definitely we outgrew that space. But it had like it had a nice bookshelf and it had couches, and it was it, it was just a nice, a nice meeting space, but just not enough for you know 20 plus people.
SPEAKER_00:So were you there from the very founding of the club?
SPEAKER_01:No, no. No, I don't know what year they started.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Uh and then and so then we moved to the dining room. And that's the era that I I joined. Uh and I kind of liked the dining room to an extent. It was there was a gross uh aspect to it. It was sometimes there was food left on the tables.
SPEAKER_01:I know it wasn't always or on the floor. Sometimes the seats had, you know, the seats stickiness. Yes. Yeah, the seats weren't always clean.
SPEAKER_00:But when I joined, I was I don't know. I was that I didn't have anything to compare it to for one thing. So uh it was fine for me, and I liked having a table to take notes on and um and it was fine. I thought yeah, but but I guess we eventually grew outgrew that, and then there was a movement to find uh a better space, and we found um the apex Baptist Church. And we first were in uh classrooms, which uh I guess we didn't feel entirely comfortable in, and then we then we made it to the choir room, which which was probably amazing. The apex of meeting spaces.
SPEAKER_01:I know we were the envy of all clubs with that room, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And then recently we we've had to move out of that room. So it I guess we're in a transitionary period at this point. Uh and it's uh what's the right attitude to have? Uh, because there's there's definitely the temptation to be a little disappointed that we no longer have that meeting space. Um what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_01:Right. Yeah. Well, we can't get the meeting space back. So that ship has sailed. And if you if you look at other club um where other clubs meet and the availability of other meeting rooms at other places, um, I mean, that room was really just completely amazing and I think unique. And you shouldn't expect the same thing again, right? So you're just gonna have to make do with what with what we have now. The good there's good parts that the room is plenty large, right? It's it's it's good. The ceiling is lower, so it doesn't feel it feels a little bit more. I don't know. I think because the ceiling's lower, it feels dark somehow, but yet the lighting is fine. The stage was too squeaky, so we're not using the stage. I I think probably probably the club just needs to be positive about it because I I don't know what other choice there is, unless, yeah, I just don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I wasn't at this last meeting that we had. Were you were you were you there on Thursday?
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So there was talk about rearranging the chairs a little bit differently.
SPEAKER_01:So okay. So more work for the sergeant at arms.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. That might have to be because since we're not using the stage, we have to you might need to push the chairs back further, for example.
SPEAKER_00:Push them back and and have a center aisle because it it's kind of awkward for people to get from their seat to the stereo.
SPEAKER_01:That's a good idea. Yeah. Yep. Might need a sergeant at arms helper, uh, like two people to set the room up early if you're gonna be doing that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um, I I wanted to be there to help, uh, but I got sick this week. So I was out of commission. But but anyway. Uh is there anything else you think we should talk about?
SPEAKER_01:Um, I think club transitions from from uh when an officer team transitions from one year to the next, I think um, I think there's opportunity there for clubs to have a little bit of overlap, right? So I feel like a club when the officer team transitions, there should be one meeting with everyone, both both the old officer team and the new officer team together. Um to just kind of maybe, maybe for the old officer team to sit in on the first new new team's meeting, just that first meeting, because there's probably going to be a question that they didn't think to ask their counterpart when they met individually during that first meeting, or maybe even the first two meetings. I think that's one thing that that clubs should consider doing is just having a little bit more overlap um during that that turnover.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there is there's definitely a learning curve.
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And the whole uh transferring of the bank account and I mean the Oh, that's that's a nightmare too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But one thing that I hope was helpful is that Apex developed that um officer, the officer role, you know, like where the officers took time to say what they actually do in their role. Because the club leadership handbook talks about what what each role is responsible for, right? But that's uh some of that stuff is old, right? Like the VP of PR press releases, media outlets, like that's that's um so I I like that Apex Club created an officer role guide of their own. Um, you know, I and I hope that was helpful. I hope you read over what I had written for you on the VP of PR role.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Great. Yeah, I don't know. I think we covered a lot, George. You're gonna have to edit this down. It's awfully long. How do you have a target time for how long the final one will be?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I was thinking an hour.
SPEAKER_01:So okay we haven't even gotten it.
SPEAKER_00:We're about 45 minutes now, but okay. Um it seems like we're reaching the end point.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh unless there's anything else you want to talk about.
SPEAKER_01:No, I think we're good.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Well, I really appreciate you you uh being my first guest.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was a pleasure, George.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Always great to chat with you.
SPEAKER_00:Good to chat with you as well.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, we'll see you see you Thursday.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:All right.
unknown:Bye.
SPEAKER_00:Bye, Shelly. Thank you.