The Apex Toastmasters Podcast
A podcast about Toastmasters, public speaking, and what makes a successful club hosted by George J. Caspar, DTM.
The Apex Toastmasters Podcast
E6: Kathy Boerner "Starting and Growing a Club and Accidentally Saving a Marriage Along the Way"
In this episode Kathy Berner describes her path from tentative guest to club builder, explore how welcoming habits create durable communities, and discuss why in-person energy still trains the best speakers. Vulnerability, humor, and small nudges become the tools that fuel the transformative power of public speaking.
• early Apex culture of warmth and mentoring
• table topics anxiety, hacks, and exposure therapy
• founding Fuquay-Varina Toastmasters: early meeting venues, spotty attendance, persistence
• growth via hospitality, diversity through welcomeness
• Compelling Speaking includes authenticity over polish; humor for cognitive resets
• multiple icebreakers as layered self-knowledge
• hybrid vs in-person and the “energy leak”
• mentoring beyond Pathways; work presentations and life impact
• retention through texts, invitations, and shared setup
• discipline, ownership, and scheduling reps
Apex Toastmasters is a President's distinguished club founded in 1996 and located in Apex, North Carolina, USA.
We meet every Thursday night at 7:00 pm at the Apex Baptist Church and online. See club website for details.
Apex Toastmasters Club Website: https://www.apextoastmasters.org/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=apex%20toastmasters
Fuquay-Varina Toastmasters meets Monday nights at 7:00 pm at Ransdell Fellowship Hall building: 309 N. Ennis Street, Fuquay-Varina, NC 27526
Fuquay-Varina Toastmasters Club Website: https://fuquayvarina.toastmastersclubs.org/
If you enjoyed what you heard, please take a moment to like, share, rate, or review this podcast
Apex Toastmasters is a President's distinguished club founded in 1996 and located in Apex, North Carolina, USA.
We meet every Thursday night at 7:00 pm at the Apex Baptist Church and online. See club website for details.
Apex Toastmasters Club Website: https://www.apextoastmasters.org/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=apex%20toastmasters
If you enjoyed what you heard, please take a moment to like, share, rate, or review this podcast.
Welcome to the Apex Toastmasters podcast. I'm your host, George Casper. This episode was recorded on Saturday, October 4th, 2025. In this episode, I speak with Kathy Berner, who was a member of Apex Toastmasters when I joined in 2015. And together we helped get the Fuquay Varena Toastmasters Club started in 2017. Let's go to the conversation. I am here with Kathy Berner, who is one of the first people I met in Toastmasters. When I walked through the door at Apex Toastmasters for the first time, she was there. She was very encouraging to me. I considered her to be one of the pillars of the club when I first joined. We've also had some history together. We helped to found the Fuquay Veren Toastmasters Club. There's a lot of history here, and I'm excited to get into this conversation. Kathy, can you introduce yourself?
SPEAKER_00:I'd be glad to, but first of all, George, I just want to thank you for inviting me to do this podcast with you. This is really fun, and it's great to see you. For me, I believe I'm a North Carolinian, even though I moved here with my family when I was 13. Got my education degree, went on to teach, run learning centers here in North Carolina, and then was offered a job to run two in Hawaii. So I moved myself to Hawaii, got to meet my husband there. Ten years later, we moved back here. And that basically started my journey with Toastmasters, along with homeschooling, writing two books, and many other fun activities moving back.
SPEAKER_01:Can you talk a little bit more about how you came to Toastmasters to begin with?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yes, yes. I believe in angels and I believe they were beating me up because there was one fear that I had in my life, and that was fear of public speaking. Most of us have it. As a teacher, George, I could talk to a huge arena of children, but you give me one, one adult, and I fall over in a dead faint. And I don't like being controlled by fear. So I investigated, went online, looked into different organizations, and Apex Toastmasters came up. It was not the closest one, it was actually about 45-55 minutes, depending on traffic for me, because you know traffic can be ridiculous. But I just loved their website. They looked friendly, they looked welcoming. So it took me three months to actually get the nerve to get in my car and drive to the parking lot. And then I sat there thinking when was this? This was in 2012. And I thought, my husband doesn't know I'm here, my kids don't know I'm here. Nobody would know if I turned around and left. Thankfully, I got out of my car, walked that long hallway down to where the meeting place was. And you know, Bill Marlowe and Laura Drew, they were, in my opinion, the pillars of that organization at the time. And they were so sweet. Laura looked at me and she said, Honey, you look like you need a hug. And she threw her arms out and gave me this big hug. And those two helped me overcome the overwhelming fear that I had and wanting to just cut and run. So they they kind of mentored me and kept me going, which was really wonderful. And that that just started my my journey with Apex and loving every minute of it.
SPEAKER_01:You joined the club maybe three years before I did. Does that sound right about you?
SPEAKER_00:I think so. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Can you describe what the club was like when you joined?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. We met in a small sunroom at this facility, and we would have to move chairs, and it was very close proximity. You almost felt like if you were in the audience, you were just inches away from the presenter. But everyone there, no matter whether they were new, like myself, or people that I thought had been there a long time, but Bill Marlowe basically had just been there a short while before I was. Same thing with Laura. I think that's so crucial that no matter where we are in our journey at Toastmasters, when we see a fellow sojourner trying to overcome our fears, we welcome them. No matter whether we have the experience yet or not, we see a fellow speaker in their journey and we just welcome them and we encourage them. The only time I would miss coming to club meetings was when I didn't have a role, because at Apex, you were never called on unless you didn't have a role, and that was for table topics. And I feared table topics. Even now, that's my most dreaded role. When they because now we call on you, even if you have a role, but I would not attend a meeting for fear I would be called on. And I remember being called on, and I remember the question, and I couldn't get past 17 seconds, and I just melted in my seat. So I have a lot of compassion for people with table topics and their fear of that. But the club itself had people who had been there for a long time, people who had started the club. They were open to ideas, they were open to new ways of doing things. And I think that's the way a club grows is that they don't just stay stagnant in one way of thinking, that as new people come in with new ideas and new backgrounds, that allows the club to grow and to encourage a variety of people to come into the club.
SPEAKER_01:I agree. And I also had the same experience with table topics when I first joined. If I sensed that someone was going to call on me, my adrenaline would spike and I would just I would be on edge. And then if they didn't call me on me, I would be tremendously relieved.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. Yep.
SPEAKER_01:You say that you still have that fear to extent, but I imagine it's significantly gone away. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, oh, absolutely. I dread it, but when I get up there, I'm able to think because I've learned the hacks, walking slower up to the front, taking a moment to think. You know, we're learning those skills to overcome the anxiety and fear, and what I call the etch a sketch. You call in my name, when I have to do that, it's just like I forget everything. I even forget my name. So those hacks that we learn through Toastmasters helps us break through those fears.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's not only hacks, it's just having experience of being called on and not have and having your mind go blank and and just facing that fear over and over. I believe builds up some sort of callous to the fear, maybe.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a good way of putting it, yes.
SPEAKER_01:You and I helped to create Fuque Verena Toastmasters. Do you remember what year that was?
SPEAKER_00:That was in 2016. It might have been in the end of 2015. David Lindquist had wanted to start a club in Fuque. And he asked Ernest Jackson, myself, Laura Drew, and a few other Toastmasters at the time to just be there at a Fuque meeting because he wanted to just feel the pulse and see whether there was any reason to have a club there. It was a poor turnout, and David was a little bit disgruntled, but he wanted to take it a step farther. Me not knowing anything about what this was all about, because I still was green. And I liked David Lindquist, though. I had the utmost respect for him and how he does anything for anyone in any club. So I naively said, Well, David, I'll just help you find a place that doesn't cost you money because the place we went to charged a hefty fee. But that actually started my journey, going all over Fuque trying to find a free place to have another meeting. And it wasn't until maybe five or six months later, and I was frustrated that nobody would help us at the Universal Healthcare. I got a call from them saying, Oh, this note was on the bottom of my pile. I would love to open up and have your club join us. So that's when I called you and Mary Lynch up and said, Hey, you want to help? And the three of us, arm in arm, I think did a great service for the community in Fuque to start this club. And it wasn't easy. We were taking two and three rolls of time sometimes.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think I was aware that you had that period of time invested in the club prior to when I was with you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was knocking on doors, asking people, leaving phone messages, leaving notes.
SPEAKER_01:I believe I was with that club for maybe three years, something like that.
SPEAKER_00:I believe so. You were president too.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And vice president of education, which is more work than than president.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, absolutely. Yep. Both important roles though.
SPEAKER_01:Are any of the same members there that were there when I was a part of that club?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Yes. A few of the the first 20, yes. We have a few. Not not many, but a few.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Judy White.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, Judy's there, yeah. Yep. She'll she won't go.
SPEAKER_01:Can you give me a sketch of the history of the club? You know, after the founding period, how's it how's it progressed?
SPEAKER_00:Well, as in any club that I believe is going to be successful, just like Holly Springs. Holly Springs had to really work hard and now it's thriving. It's you don't give up. You just keep being there for the one person who attends. You don't get disgruntled that we only have two or three attending. And that's what we had. Many times it was you, Mary, myself, and maybe two other people. And we just didn't give up. We kept having meeting after meeting. We were learning more about officer roles. I didn't understand officer roles. I didn't understand what the treasurer had to do, what the minutes were all like. We were all learning. It was probably good that we didn't grow quickly, that we were able to learn the background steps first. The thing I really liked was the attitude. You know, we had to walk, it seemed like a mile to get back to where we met at Universal Healthcare. And we'd have the signs with little arrows to the left and the right and down and up and down and over. And then we'd talk to all the residents as we walked back to the back room. And it was a time that we could actually connect with guests and with each other. So there was a positive outcome to that long haul back and forth from the meeting room.
SPEAKER_01:And we also had to wait until somebody could unlock the door for us to leave.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. But in retrospect, looking at it well, while we waited five or 10 minutes for someone to come and open the doors to let us go home, we were able to yet again connect with one another. It wasn't just come in, do our role, and then leave. It was, oh, you work here. Oh, you have two children, so do I. And a time period to get to know one another, which I think is important.
SPEAKER_01:You're no longer at that location where where are you now?
SPEAKER_00:Well, from there we moved to the Methodist church right down the street. We were there until COVID.
SPEAKER_01:Actually, I was there for that period.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Yep. We were there and until COVID. And then I think Zach Roscoe was president, and you were kind of toggling back and forth during COVID of being president. So we went online, fortunately. After that, we went to two different real estate offices. And then from there, Judy White checked with her church, and they have allowed us for the past few years to meet in their fellowship hall where we actually have a stage and a podium and huge areas where we can have get-togethers and get-together food. And it was just a great stair step approach to our growth as a club.
SPEAKER_01:How many members do you have now?
SPEAKER_00:As of last count, I don't know what it is this month since we've, but it was mid-30s to um upper 30s.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's great. So it's oh, it's much more established now than oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:We we actually are saying, oh, there's a club down the street, and oh, because we are we don't want to get too big. We we can lose a lot of our personalization if we get too big.
SPEAKER_01:You you and I were dual members at Apex and Fuque for a period of time, and then you decided to go completely to Fuque. Can you talk about your decision to make that change?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that is such a good question, and it was such a hard decision for me because for five years I'd drive back and forth to Apex, and I loved it. Tuesdays were wonderful, wonderful days or evenings to be with everybody. And though I have since then stopped going to Apex, I have continued friendships with people that I have made in that club, and they will be lifelong friends, and that's what I love about Toastmasters is that whether we're in the club or not together, you meet people that you would never meet any other way than at Toastmasters meeting. Just incredible. But the the drive was getting to be ridiculous, and the demand of Fuque, which is only like eight minutes from my house in traffic, so a big difference on availability. Plus the fact that I was doing some more activities throughout the week, I needed to step away from at least one of the Toastmaster responsibilities. And since Fuque seemed to be one of my little babies, I wanted to make sure it percolated along.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it seems like my decision was similar to yours, but in the opposite direction. Can you talk about that, about the different personalities that clubs have?
SPEAKER_00:Again, George, that's a great aspect to consider when looking at Toastmasters because not all Toastmaster clubs are the same. But I think in many cases, the majority of them are good. We just have to find one that fits our personalities. And I am the type of person that when I walk into a place, I feel energy. I feel whether it's a positive energy, a business energy, an acceptant energy. And with Apex, it was always a very welcoming energy. Now I don't know what it is now. I don't, when I look at pictures and things, it looks much more professional or much more, I don't know, I may be wrong. It's just through pictures. So I haven't been at a club meeting at Apex for quite a while. But I love the openness, the just whoever whomever you are, you are welcome to this club. And I believe that's the same way with the Fuque Club. I think that's why we both, though both clubs are doing so well, it's just that energy of welcomeness. We have a Navy SEAL that is a member of our club. And what I do, I've kind of morph this into what I like to do with every new member is they come to my house, I sit with them, I learn about their background, what they want to accomplish, where they want to go with Toastmasters, and how our club can help them achieve their goals. That just that one-on-one, introduce them, have just the consistency with our club. So everybody starts from the same starting point. And he he asked me one time, he said, Kathy, how did your club get so diverse? And I see this at Apex. And I said, we don't seek diversity, we seek welcomeness. And I think people feel that when they walk into our clubs. And I'm sure that's the same with Apex. I don't care where you're from, what you believe in, what your background is, your education, whatever. If you want to learn to speak and you want to help this club and everybody in it, we are here for you. And I think it speaks volumes in that energy when people walk in through the door.
SPEAKER_01:I do believe Apex has evolved over the years. It's a much different club than it was when I first joined. And, you know, there was like you and Jeff King and Don Dickinson and and uh all those people, Peter, Peter Agio, Lacides. I I remember walking in the door and thinking these people, you know, were giants and and were I I don't know. I I I felt like I had a lot to learn. And then as the club evolved, and and certainly COVID changed a lot of things too. A lot of people dropped out during COVID. But at a certain point, I found that I found myself occupying the position of of those people, you know, that were the pillars when I when I first joined. So it it's a cyclical thing. And in terms of diversity, I would say certainly it it's more ethnically diverse now than it was when I first joined.
SPEAKER_00:We have people sit next to each other. We have a um person who defected from Russia sitting next to our Navy SEAL, and they have become best friends because the Navy SEAL needs to speak German and I mean Russian and the Russian needs to feel like he can use his native language, and they have become best friends. And it's just this openness, no matter where you're from, what your background is, we are there to learn from one another. We also, and and I know we did this at Apex, I don't know whether you still do it, but we have get-togethers either at the church or at our house. My husband and I love to have cover dish get-togethers where Toastmasters topics is not allowed. We talk about anything but Toastmasters, and it's just a time where we connect and we get a different feel for one another than just go to a meeting, leave, go to a meeting and leave.
SPEAKER_01:So I think that helps. Now, you had mentioned that you have people over to your house when they join the club and you interview them.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. I used to, this is where wisdom comes into play. I get so it maybe it's my teacher, the teacher in me, I want to help people and I want to teach them. So I would go to their homes, I would meet them here, I would find some wouldn't come, some weren't ready, some didn't practice. So I thought, if you want help, you come to my house and I'll sit with you. So if they don't show or they're late, I can still do my thing. But I'm finding that people are actually coming to me saying, Hey, I heard you mentor. And I said, Well, I don't know whether it's mentoring, but yes, I will meet with you. And and George, it's been really fun that it has turned out to be where I mentor people even outside of their Toastmaster pathways. When they have a presentation at work or something that they have to do, they come to me and I help them use their Toastmaster skills to present wherever they have to go. I just had a guy come back from Utah having give a 20-minute technical presentation. And it was such a high for me to get texts from him when he was flying back saying how successful it was. Because that's what I think our clubs are all about. Not to just build our club, but to build the confidence for each member. So when they go out of our club, they're able to build better relationships, be better at work. We even had a young lady. She was only at the Fuque Club. I don't even know whether we did charter yet, but she called me, George, three months after she had quit. She'd only been there maybe 11 or 12 months, and she thanked me and she wanted me to thank everybody at the club because Toastmasters saved her marriage. And I thought, I didn't know we were in the marriage counseling department. But she explained that not only did she learn how to speak to her husband, the most important thing she learned was how to listen. That she understood that he didn't have her training, but she learned to listen to what he was saying instead of getting reactive. She listened to the undercurrent message of what he was trying to say. And she said it made all the difference in her marriage. I mean, that's that's what we're all about is to help people outside of the club. And I think that brings success for the club.
SPEAKER_01:I've always felt like there's a therapeutic quality and process in Toastmasters. For me, it stems from facing a fear, putting yourself in a situation that's uncomfortable and forcing your way through it, or when your mind goes blank, pulling something out of nothing to say, or or just when you dread getting up there and getting up there nonetheless, and then something comes out of you, and a lot of times it's surprising, and then you go back to your seat and there's a catharsis. I made it through that. Putting yourself in that situation has a lot of impact to other areas of life, certainly in the way that you communicate with other people, certainly in your courage to face situations you wouldn't otherwise face. And I suppose also listening to which is an area I did not consider, but that makes sense. That's my elevator pitch on the on the therapeutic nature of toastmasters.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it is, and honestly, I agree because when we want to be an impactful speaker, those speakers who are genuine, who share a part of themselves, and that takes digging down deeply, willing to share something about ourselves, the story, whatever it is, it could be about business, it could be about life, childhood experiences, that connection with your audience. And it's very important to get that across to your audience so they feel like they know you.
SPEAKER_01:It has been my experience that the more vulnerable you are in an authentic way, the more you'll connect with your audience. There are some speakers I've seen over the years, especially people who are attracted to the higher levels of Toastmasters above the club level, and they're very professional, some of them very accomplished speakers and impressive in their own way. I often feel that there's no connection between me and them sometimes when it's just so overly professional and they're lacking that vulnerability. So I only bring that up just to contrast with how being vulnerable can can connect you to the audience.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I definitely agree. Definitely. If you look at the really advanced motivational speakers outside in the real world, like Tony Robbins, he shares vulnerable instances in his life. A new gentleman that I'm listening to, Ryan Leake, he is funny, but he is authentic with all the stupid things he does in the world and the mistakes he makes. And he brings it to a lesson that he's trying to teach. And that's what I really like in a speaker. And I agree with you that sometimes we speakers have to be pulled back down into reality. We don't have to be so perfect. We need to be more perfect in our genuineness and our authenticity. And that helps us be more impactful speakers.
SPEAKER_01:When you hear a speaker that really draws you in, what are the qualities that they exhibit?
SPEAKER_00:It's the energy that they bring, whether it's to the stage or on Zoom. I personally don't like Zoom because it's hard to feel that energy. But depending on the speaker, you can still get that energy through Zoom. But I think the positive energy that is not self-reflective. It's more, I'm here to help my audience, whether it's a one or a whole massive number of people. It's they they turn the tables on their audience, not themselves. I am here to help you. I think you feel that from a compelling speaker. Then the authenticity, the who are you? Are you so perfect? I can't identify with you, the speaker, if you're too perfect. I want to know that you have warts and you have issues, and then I'm more apt to listen to you. I think a compelling speaker also needs the skill of humor. Every so, even if it's a heavy-duty presentation, every so often to get that humor in there. Because one thing I love to do, George, I don't know whether you know this about me, is I love to study the brain. The brain is, I think, an endless frontier for all of us to understand the power that it has. And if we speakers don't understand, we're talking to an audience of brains, and we have to keep those synapses firing so they retain what we're saying, not just hear it, but we have to get them to retain it. And I know I I've heard that people's brains are compared to goldfish brains, that goldfish can listen, I think, two or three seconds longer than the human brain. So, you know, sometimes we want to talk to an audience of goldfish because they listen longer. But it's important that speakers are genuine, they bring an honest, positive energy to help others, and that they can use humor, that humor will help break that synapse doldrum and get your audience to stay intact with you.
SPEAKER_01:Along the lines of the authentism that we were talking about, one one thing that turns me off from a speaker is if I feel like there's a manipulative quality involved, trying to convince me of some point of view, or there's some underhanded manipulative message involved. And I feel like so much of our lives these days we're confronted with manipulative messaging, social media, of course, but also politics. It's almost surprising when I run into something that feels like purely authentic and non-manipulative. And so one of the things that I love about Toastmasters is there's an authentic quality to it that's that seems it's not manipulative. There is a energy to it that is authentically trying to foster growth in people.
SPEAKER_00:I'll take that a step farther if you let me.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:I I really like the way that Pathways has an icebreaker with every next path. Because I've heard people who have been at Toastmasters a long time poo-poo it, saying, I've already given my icebreaker. But there's two things wrong with that mentality. One is that we have new members and they want to get to know you, even though you've been there 15, 20, 30 years. They want to get to know you. But it's another layer of learning a little bit more about yourself. What makes me tick? What do I like doing? Because it's easy to know about other people. Honestly, sometimes the hardest person to understand and to really know is ourselves. And with Toastmasters, it really makes you dig in to find out who am I? How do I think of things? And I think that's where we get what you were just referring to, that authenticity is that with all the projects that they have us do, we're having to figure out how we see things and how we do things. And I love the icebreakers because yet again we have to think, okay, how do I tell somebody a different way about myself? And so we have to dig a little deeper and find out who I am.
SPEAKER_01:That's uh that's the first time I've heard anyone defend the multiple icebreaker evolution that Pathways has introduced.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. I love it, George. Because what I tell people is we want a thread. I work with a professional golfer, and he used golf as a thread through his first icebreaker. Then we learned about his brothers and his family and where he traveled and where he went to education with that thread. You know Callie Shevzov. Her icebreaker that she gave was what was in her freezer. And we learned so much about her being a foodie and she loved gardens and so much more about her. And every time a person has to give a new icebreaker, I challenge them to find another thread that runs through their life. And that helps them take on the next icebreaker and understand themselves a little further. So that's why I like icebreakers.
SPEAKER_01:No, that's that's great. You've completely changed my mind on the that. I tend to be somebody who who likes things the way they have been done, and when changes are made, I I somewhat stubborn and resistant. I'm glad we had this conversation because you've gotten me to think about the multiple icebreaker in a new way.
SPEAKER_00:Oh good.
SPEAKER_01:I think I'll adopt that position.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Great.
SPEAKER_01:Do you have any other thoughts on what makes a successful club or what makes a compelling club?
SPEAKER_00:I absolutely do. I think when we see people come through our doors and we keep reminding ourselves the fear and the effort it took to walk through those doors and to meet them wherever they are. That's essential. I am observer, and maybe it's again, I'm a teacher, but I watch people and I watch members who come in at the last minute, meeting starts, as soon as it's over, they leave. They have a fear of general chit chat. So before they can leave, I'll grab them and say, oh, come with me and help. And I help them get more comfortable. And I'm training some other people to do the same thing, that we don't let people just run out the door. They have to come back in and help us move the chairs and we talk because general chit chat is a type of communication. We're not there just to check boxes, we fill the rolls and goodbye. Another thing that I do, and many other people are adopting it in our club, is that we text each other. We just had a young lady who is now going to have her first child in December. She's having to back out, but we still text her. We check up on her, we're checking on people. If I haven't seen somebody sign up for a speech in a while, it's just like, you-hoo, I'm here. You want me to sign you up or do you want to sign yourself up? And we don't let people slide because as we all found with COVID, that if we don't do something, we find that we didn't need it, or find other ways to fill that time slot. But if somebody keeps saying, I know you're busy at work, we miss you, whenever you can come back, we're here for you. It's amazing the retention that we have because of those small little texts that while you're sitting there waiting to pick up your grandchildren, you can throw a little text out to somebody saying, Hey, how'd that meeting go? Or just a quick connection. And I think that makes a compelling club because that individual feels important. And I it's an overused term, but they feel seen. They're not just there to help the club, which is one thing that I don't like, I don't push is oh, we want this award, so we need you to fill this role so we get credit. Is it going to help you? Is it going to do you some good? I believe our club will rise to the top if we do what's right, not just clicking and checking boxes. It's more that personal touch. And though I don't like technology, I am a texting fanatic. And I can, you know, just a few seconds just, hey, hi, how are you doing? Hope to see you tonight. You know, that kind of a connection.
SPEAKER_01:I agree with in terms of technology, the the whole movement of moving to Zoom. I guess it was necessary over COVID, but I firmly believe that the power of Toastmasters is face-to-face communication. Two people in the same room or one person, you know, in front of a group of people in person. There's something very powerful about that. And Zoom doesn't capture that nearly as well. And also I want to acknowledge what you said about the urge to walk out the door immediately after meetings, because I definitely fit that personality type, especially when I'm in a new group and I haven't established those connections with people. The chit chat can often feel like excruciatingly awkward to me in new situations. I do believe my experience with Toastmasters has helped me be more willing to face situations like that that are socially awkward and uncomfortable. And not everyone's like that. Some people thrive in in situations like that, but there there is a personality type that feels very awkward in those situations. I was I still am one of those. And I think Toastmasters is is a great environment for people like that to put themselves in the position to face up against that fear or that discomfort. Because that's where growth happens. So avoid if you're constantly avoiding the things that make you uncomfortable, you're not going to grow. Are there any other topics that you would like to discuss?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, how much time do we have? I absolutely love Toastmasters, and there's so many aspects that I think are crucial. And we've talked about some of them, but I think it's the friendships that we make because we do share vulnerable issues about ourselves. We do get to know one another in very different ways and people that we work with, or maybe our neighbors. It's a deeper connection that I seriously have. When I think of my best friends that I have had over the past 13 years, they are all Toastmaster people. And they literally from all around the world with all different kinds of faith bases, experiences that I wouldn't have had the opportunity to have met in such a life-changing way of seeing the world and enjoying life. I think Toastmasters is an incredible opportunity for people. This is what I preach to our club now. It's no different than an excellent textbook. We offer all the steps that you need, but it comes down to the student. Each person who comes into a club, they're responsible for what they need to do to progress and get better. We can offer those little texts, we can offer the encouragement, but we don't have a magic wand to wave. They have to do the work. And I think that's essential to get across to people. We have everything to offer people to improve. And it's exciting to see those people. And I try when I mentor people, I try to help them figure out the type of person they are. For me, George, I was not meant to be a public speaker, though I feel like I have a great deal to share with my messages. But because I'm not a natural public speaker, and you and I know natural public speakers, I have to give a speech somewhere to somebody once a month because I will slowly, eh, I'm too busy, I'll do it later. So unless I have it on the calendar, and that's what I push people, get to know who you are. Do you need to be more disciplined and get yourself up there, filling Toastmaster roles, being a general evaluator, more media time up on the stage, because it's so much easier to just always use excuses. I got a I've got a job, I've got this, I've got that. We always can find excuses not to speak publicly or go to a meeting. But Toastmasters has what you need. It's up to the student, the member, to determine whether they're going to take advantage of it or not.
SPEAKER_01:I agree. And when you say that, that brings to mind a woman who was a member of Fuque Verena Toastmasters when I was there. I don't remember what her name was, but she was just so painfully shy. And it took her a while to get up to deliver a speech. And I I remember she read she had like a notebook and she just kind of read her speech from the notebook. Someone like that, and I can sympathize with this personality type. It's just so impossibly difficult to put yourself in situations like that because it's just for whatever reason, past trauma or whatever, it's just so painful to put yourself in that situation. So I I hear what you're saying. Yes, it's the job of the student. There has to be some willingness there, they have they have to be willing to take that leap. But I also see that personality type that I just described, and I just know the barrier is so powerful to put themselves in that situation. So, do you have any thoughts on how to bridge that gap?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. It's the Laura Drew, Bill Marlowe approach, and that's what I try to extend to people that come in to our club with the shaking hands and the beads of sweat coming down in tears. We've had many tears. It's those texts, the phone calls, the drive to the house and say, Hey, I'm picking you up today. I did that with several people. They were so frightened, they didn't want to go. And I say, Well, I'm outside your house, I'm ready to take you, to help them bridge that fear. And it's when they've broken that fear barrier, then it's up to them to keep it going. You know, the text the encouragement is just part of it. But unless they assume and use that encouragement as an encouragement to get them going, I I have a great example. Patricia. And I don't know whether this is the woman that you were referring to. She was about 75 when she started at Fuque. You were a member there. You know, we had aging people in this facility. Well, I saw this lost person walking the halls, and I thought, well, I'll just go help her find a room. She was looking for Toastmasters. So I was very embarrassed when I initially started talking with her. And as I talked with her, I walked through the door into that little side kitchen that we met in. Later, she told me that when she was 24, she tried to go to Toastmaster meeting, but she couldn't make it through the door. And then at 36 and 40, and then it jumped to 60. And it was, she was getting ready to turn around again in her 70s because she was afraid. But because I went out to help her find another room, I went out and she said, I needed help to walk through the door. And after she walked through the door, that was the barrier for her. So when I preach to other officers in our club, it's just that we sometimes have to go out and walk them physically through the door. And then when they're there, help encourage and motivate them to keep coming.
SPEAKER_01:That's amazing. Hearing you say that almost makes me a little emotional. Because I can really sympathize with those people who walking up to a meeting and then facing a desperate desire to turn around and go away. Yeah. I've experienced that sort of situation many times in my younger years. And I I definitely, I definitely feel like Toastmasters has helped me confront that energy and get past it.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I agree with me too. Absolutely. But look what you're doing now. You're doing exactly what I was mentioning, that when we turn our view to helping others, that's what you're doing with these podcasts. You're helping people to understand the power of Toastmasters and to learn more about it. So your focus is more on helping other people, which is incredible.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. I say yes, not that what I'm doing is incredible, but yes.
SPEAKER_00:It is incredible.
SPEAKER_01:But what I meant was there's several different purposes of this podcast that I can actually point to. But one of them is to record and put into some sort of format that other people can access what I think is the power and the beauty of Toastmasters, and just to have it a repository for that. Because I had been a member of Toastmasters for so long and I had accumulated great experiences and met incredible people who have come and gone, you know. So there's a continuous cycling of experience and people that comes in and then get then leaves and gets lost to an extent. So the purpose that I'm referring to here is is an attempt to preserve some of that in some format.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's wonderful. Wonderful goal. And uh all of us appreciate what you're doing. It's a great effort.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you. I appreciate that. What are your thoughts on virtual and hybrid meetings?
SPEAKER_00:I think virtual was really crucial during COVID, but we don't have that anymore. And at our club, I think it's a 50-50 decision to getting rid of hybrid. And my push, I have many, many reasons not wanting hybrid. One is it's expensive, it's time consuming. We have to get there early to do it all. The expense to people in the entire club is for the few people that click on at the last minute and then click off. I know it's funny, but I would say people who want Zoom have to come to the meeting, set it up, run back home and use it, and then come back and put it away if they want it. But my push and my true reasoning, George, is that as a Toastmaster organization, we are there to help teach public speaking, and that's in person. You cannot learn how to deal with your nerves as much, deal with the energy that you feel from the audience as well as in person. It's such a two-dimensional issue. And we've even had people who had to give speeches who specifically would stay home to give their speech on Zoom because they were too nervous to give it in person. And I think we're failing as clubs by offering that handicap, that crutch, and still say you're learning how to speak publicly. What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree. We have one member of Apex Toastmasters, his name is Karan, and he lives in Toronto, Canada. So he cannot he doesn't have the option of attending in person. And I love Karan, he's a great guy. I I did a podcast with him a couple back. And so he's always brought up as the reason why we should continue to do virtual because it allows people who cannot make it in to attend. And I guess there's some merit to that, but for me, I feel like there's a difference between a fully in-person meeting, a hybrid meeting, and a fully Zoom meeting. And I feel like even for the people who are in person, if there's a hybrid component, it's it's just not the same thing. It it there's there's an energy leak or or something. There's something missing, or it's just not as powerful as a fully in-person meeting. So I I would tend to agree that I would push for that for fully in-person meetings, but then you have the Quran issue, and I wouldn't want to ostracize him or you know, not have contact with him anymore. So it's a difficult question at this point.
SPEAKER_00:That that's a tough situation when you have a particular member like this gentleman, and and I love your term, an energy leak. I think that's a very descriptive term, and that nails just Zoom meetings opposed to just in-person meetings. There's no leak. But when you have the split, the hybrid, where you have the screen and we see people that are at their homes and they're drinking their coffee and they're putting their dog down or whatever, and then you're trying to pay attention to the speaker in person, it's very distracting. And the energy leak of we can't hear properly because the speaker's not working quite right in person and that kind of a thing. And I love the energy leak. That's what it is, George. That's a wonderful way to explain it. Because yeah, we need to know how to do Zoom in this day and age, but just Zoom, and we need to do in person, just in person. So the hybrid is not being able to make a decision. So within in your case, straddling the fence, right? But in your case, when you have a member like that, and to be honest with you, when we did have a girl in Iowa who came on during COVID, we didn't want to lose her. But when she backed out, she was the only long distance person that we had at that time. And that's when I feel like it was time to pull the plug.
SPEAKER_01:Do you think you're gonna move to fully in person?
SPEAKER_00:Let's just say that's what I'm preaching. I'm not an officer, but sometimes by not being an officer, I can make more noise.
SPEAKER_01:Who is the current president in Fuque right now?
SPEAKER_00:Rich Walters. He's awesome.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think I've ever met him.
SPEAKER_00:Oh well, when you you come to Fuque, you will you will really enjoy him. He's quite a leader.
SPEAKER_01:When do you meet?
SPEAKER_00:We meet on Mondays at seven o'clock.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, and what is your location?
SPEAKER_00:We are at the uh Ransdale Hall Fellowship Hall in Fuque.
SPEAKER_01:Is there anything else you want to add?
SPEAKER_00:I I think we've covered a lot of things. I'm sure we could keep talking about examples and things that we've learned, but this has been wonderful, George. I've really enjoyed seeing you again and chatting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's so great to see you and uh and to connect. It's been a long time. Maybe I'll come out to Fuque and visit. You've kind of inspired me to do that.
SPEAKER_00:Come visit now. Um we will show you the ropes of the Fuque Varina Toastmasters that you helped start.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm looking forward to that then.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Kathy, very much. Great to see you.
SPEAKER_00:Take care.
SPEAKER_01:Apex Toastmasters is a president's distinguished club founded in 1996 and located in Apex, North Carolina. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the host and guest, and do not reflect the views or opinions of Toastmasters in general or Apex Toastmasters in specific. If you enjoyed what you heard, please take a moment to like, share, rate, or review this podcast. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you in the next podcast.