The Apex Toastmasters Podcast
A podcast about Toastmasters, public speaking, and what makes a successful club hosted by George J. Caspar, DTM.
The Apex Toastmasters Podcast
E8: Don Dickinson, DTM "You Learn By Doing"
We trace Apex Toastmasters from a cozy sunroom club to a packed, high‑energy room, then through COVID disruptions into a pragmatic hybrid model. Don Dickinson DTM shares lessons on leadership, Pathways, and how to keep growth healthy without losing the club’s soul.
• Apex origin story and early culture
• Leadership continuity as the growth engine
• Room changes and meeting design shaping energy
• COVID shock, hybrid return and energy trade‑offs
• Virtual vs hybrid vs in‑person effectiveness
• Pathways strengths, gaps and recent fixes
• The role of repetition and tougher evaluations
• What makes a compelling speaker and communicator
• Why the classic meeting format still works
• Life after DTM, mentorship and service
• The social glue of shared self‑improvement
Apex Toastmasters is a President's distinguished club founded in 1996 and located in Apex, North Carolina, USA.
We meet every Thursday night at 7:00 pm at the Apex Baptist Church and online. See club website for details.
Apex Toastmasters Club Website: https://www.apextoastmasters.org/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=apex%20toastmasters
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Welcome to the Apex Toastmasters Podcast. I'm your host, George Casper. This episode was recorded on Thursday, October 30th, 2025. In this episode, I speak with Don Dickinson DTL. Let's go to the conversation. I'm here with Don Dickinson. Don Dickinson is one of the first people I met in Toastmasters. He was a pillar of the club when I first joined. One of those people that kind of defined Toastmasters for me when I first joined. Don, can you introduce yourself? Indeed, George.
SPEAKER_01:Hi everyone. This is Don Dickinson. I'm uh been a part of Apex Toastmasters for well over a decade. I've been a Toastmaster for uh even longer, I think. My first club that I joined was in 2008. And when did you join Apex? I think it was 2014, somewhere in that area.
SPEAKER_00:The club was started in 1996, but a lot of the original people were still around at that point. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01:Well, a few. What is typical for all Toastmasters clubs is you know, there's a fair high rate of turnover. That's just natural for a variety of reasons. But as you said, a core group of people have been around consistently. And even though that core group has changed over time, that that's been a very slow evolution. So what we have is a Toastmasters club that has a long history and a very solid and respected history because of a core group of people that have been fairly consistent over uh long periods of time.
SPEAKER_00:I joined Apex Toastmasters, I believe, in 2015. And it felt like you had been there for a long time, but I guess you had only been there for a year when I joined.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm not sure. Someone threw that date out. I can't remember. It seems like I've been a member longer than that. But the fact that I had been pretty active in my former club was probably the reason why I maybe already seen it home. In fact, that was the very reason I joined Apex Toastmasters. That was the first club I visited back in 2008. And because of time conflicts with work and other commitments, I joined another club to begin with. But when some of those conflicts diminished, I said I really wanted to be at Apex because it was, I and I think this is true for anyone who wants to join Toastmasters. You know, every club has a different personality. And I just liked Apex from the very beginning, and ultimately it came to the point where I had the opportunity to switch. And so I did. And it's been my home club ever since.
SPEAKER_00:And when you first joined, was Apex meeting in the sunroom or was it meeting in the dining area?
SPEAKER_01:It was still meeting in the sunroom, although we started changing soon after that, I think, when we went to the dining room.
SPEAKER_00:Do you remember the meetings in the sunroom, what they were like?
SPEAKER_01:Well, as I said, that was the first club that I visited when I was thinking about becoming a Toastmaster. It was in the Sun Room for sure, back in 2008. And I remember Bob Sackman spoke at that time. And so Bob has definitely been a member of the club, at least as as long as I'm aware of. And I just said, Oh, Bob, I was so impressed with Bob and the presentation that he gave. And I was like, oh, I want I want to be a part of this. And it was so relaxed. It was cushy upholstered chairs and sitting around. It was a relatively small group. Why would I say small? It was, you know, maybe 10, 15 people at the time. We ultimately had to move out of the sunroom because it got so crowded. We had so many people. I mean, at one time we would have 35 people, uh, or maybe even 40 at a meeting. And that's why we ultimately ended up in the dining room to facilitate a much larger crowd. And I remember some meetings that were just insane, as in trying to cram in multiple speakers and all the other activities going on within an hour. There were a lot of times that we didn't hit that mark. We had some very talkative people, you know, at that point. Anyway, it was great. It was a great experience. But I at one point, and it was probably around 2015 when I became president for Apex Toastmasters, that boy, I think we really did hit the peak here in terms of just so many people on the roster, so many people at the meetings and constant stream of visitors and people joining. It was a nice problem to have, but it creates its own problems, especially for those who are trying to get to an educational path. Of course, we're back on the traditional program at the time, and it was becoming a real challenge for people to get speaking slots and to advance in their Toastmaster's journey. And I by natural attrition, at some point, we had a much more manageable number in terms of our active members, which continues to today. Of course, we had that major interruption back with COVID in 2020, and it took a couple of years to really adjust and get back to the so-called new norm. But we did it, and fortunately we did. COVID was a tough challenge for a whole lot of Toastmasters Club because ultimately the club experience is your Toastmasters' experience, and that's why that had a real impact on everyone. So today, well, we have both virtual, we have hybrid, and we have, of course, in-person meetings. So there's a variety of things there, different club settings to fit a wide variety of needs. That has definitely made it more accessible for a whole lot of people that it would not have been before. So I applaud the leadership teams that we had at the time that help adjust and to be able to get through that significant challenge that many organizations went through, both in terms of public groups and work organizations. And I think we're finally back. It's taken a few years, but I think we're finally back at a very happy medium. So having a hybrid meeting. Definitely the club meetings in person are back, I think, in full swing for sure.
SPEAKER_00:In those early days when the club was taking off, what factors do you attribute to the club growth?
SPEAKER_01:Well, a variety of reasons. First, and without question, it was a solid leadership team and people who were very dedicated, not just at the club level, but at various levels within the Toastmasters organization at the area district and beyond. That core group, and I think that is the heart of it, even to today, is that dedicated, committed group of individuals that were always at the core of the club, created a wonderful environment. And of course, the very environment that Dr. Ralph C. Smedley envisioned back when he created, founded Toastmasters more than 100 years ago. And the consistency of that team, the succession of dedicated and committed leaders really, I think was the key to that. That was a very and continues to be a very vibrant environment. And when people come to visit, they can't help but go, oh my gosh, I want to be a part of this as well, too. And that is definitely what helps fuel growth in a club is first getting the word out, having people attend and visit, and then when they get there, find an environment and an opportunity to for personal development that they just cannot find anywhere else.
SPEAKER_00:During your tenure as president, some people broke off from Apex and formed the Piquay Club. And part of that group was some of the original founders of Apex, I believe. It was.
SPEAKER_01:Now, some of those, the original founders, had not been overly active in the Apex Club for a number of years. But when they were kind of getting back into it, they had a different vision, which is fine. There's nothing that is better than starting a new club for whatever reason that may be. It could be the day and time that others prefer. Perhaps they've identified a meeting location that is more conducive to attracting new members, and that is awesome. I mean, remember back at the time, Apex Toastmasters was the only Toastmasters club in the area. And that was, I think, a key factor in why we had such solid membership, strong growth, a lot of visitors coming in and ultimately joining. As I said, growth can create its own challenges. And what we saw was, as I mentioned before, opportunities for advancing in the education program was becoming challenging. The meetings were becoming really heavy with so many people there. The logistics of having a meeting of 30 to 40 people on a regular basis, uh, I mean, I don't think we ever had less than 25 people in a meeting. That's a lot by itself, but you put in more. It was a challenge. So I think some of the um, at least one of the original founders of Apex Toastmasters said, hey, here's an opportunity to start another club, which is always encouraged. And they, as you said, started another club in the Apex area. And I think that was kind of a relief valve for Apex Toastmasters. We do find ourselves always in a situation of is what you're doing sustainable? And like I said, right at the peak there in the 2015-2016 arena, it was just busting at the seams. And at some point something had to give. And I think that was a great relief valve to uh be able to do that. As I said, every club has its unique and distinct character. So a different club was begun. I don't know if they're still in existence today or not, but the point is that that is the opportunity to make Toastmasters as accessible to everyone as possible. And by having more opportunities within a geographic area for different daytime, that expands the accessibility to this great program. Did those people come to you and express their reason for leaving? No, unfortunately. I think that was the one downside. Certainly, if that had been expressed that we'd like to do that, uh, we would have wholeheartedly uh supported that effort and encouraged it. As a result, it was kind of a uh uh behind the scenes type of effort, which was disappointing. But hey, you know what? That is anyone's prerogative to begin their own club. So such is life.
SPEAKER_00:And I believe the Peak Way Club dissolved uh as a result of COVID.
SPEAKER_01:Which is not surprising. COVID was really hard on Toastmasters as it was on many organizations, that you know, the real experience is based upon in-person meetings. And without a doubt, the the full Toastmasters experience is it comes from being with a group of people face to face, because that's where you really can focus on developing public speaking and leadership skills in a way that you cannot do in the virtual world. And that dynamic continues even today. So there are some hybrid clubs and uh some strictly virtual clubs for Toastmasters, which again is good because it's able to connect with people that you wouldn't otherwise because they're not in the same geographic location. But the real value, the real substance comes from being in person. And that's when it's strongest. And I again, I think that's why the clubs that have solid leadership teams that have solid succession plans, where there's that continuity of commitment and devotion, you know, that's what makes a Toastmasters club sustainable. And I think with the case of a new Toastmasters club, especially getting hit, I mean, they probably, I'm assuming, kind of hit their stride somewhere around 2018 and within two years when COVID hit, that just made it extremely difficult. Fortunately for Toastmasters in general, two things really helped us navigate that tremendous challenge. The first was the emergence of virtual meetings, something that was not mainstream before COVID. And luckily, tools such as Zoom or Microsoft Teams were coming into play. And really, if it hadn't been for the opportunity to meet virtually, then I don't know if Toastmasters would have recovered at all if the uh in-person meetings were not going to be allowed. The other dynamic here, too, that really helped this process was Toastmasters had just fully implemented pathways, which was a more digital uh experience. And it gave those who were participating virtually a whole lot of the resources that allowed them to do virtual meetings but still continue their educational program. It became much more online content and engagement. So between the tools for virtual meetings, between the implementation of pathways, fortunately, Toastmasters in general weathered a tremendous storm. And I would have to say probably stronger for today. I know that some clubs definitely felt the full impact of that. Maybe they recovered in time or not at all. But as a whole, I think Toastmasters is back to where we were because virtual meetings, virtual competitions just is not the same. And I know, at least for Apex Toastmasters, and I imagine other clubs as well. The in-person experience, along with the opportunity to participate virtually, is I think a new opportunity for us to be able to connect and engage people in the Toastmasters experience in a way that we just could not have done before COVID.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. There's a lot there. I I do want to talk about uh the diff what you think the difference is between a fully virtual meeting, a fully in-person meeting, and a hybrid meeting are because I feel like a hybrid gives you the opportunity to have the in-person experience, which is I believe the most important part of Toastmasters. But I I don't feel like it's exactly the same as a fully in-person meeting. I talked to Kathy Berner about this. We talked about how there's an energy leak that we sense when the meeting is hybrid because there's some distractions involved with hybrid. You know, people online might be drinking coffee, or you know, their kids might be in the background, or or sometimes there's technical problems and hear people. Whereas a fully in-person meeting, we don't have any of those problems. And it just seems like the energy flows a little bit better. What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, there's no question. And we're not talking about toastmaster, we're just talking about think about how our entire work environment has changed over the last few years. The in-person meeting is the most effective means of engaging people, either one-on-one or as a group, especially if we're giving a speech. Virtual meetings, everyone knows it is the our brains are not wired to effectively engage in virtual meetings in the same way as a face-to-face. Let's just take the example of giving a speech. So many of the dynamics of an effective speech, such as body movement, nonverbal communications, those body language, those things are totally taken away in a virtual setting. The other major challenge in a virtual setting is that unless you have a studio set up where you have optimized the video and the audio in a way that is conducive to giving a nice presentation, which of course virtually no one has, is that, as you said, the distractions, the poor audio, poor video, the entire presentation is so lacking. And as you said, distractions are so easy in a virtual meeting, Toastmasters or work. And again, we've I think we've all experienced this in our work lives as well, too. For good or bad, it's kind of like email. Hey, isn't it great that we can connect so many people on a communication that we could not effectively do before? What's the downside of that? Well, the downside is we connect way too many people, we create these massive email chains, messaging, we create things like texting and one-way communications that just strip us of the richness and nuances that we need in verbal communication. And there's the dilemma. Now, hybrid has allowed new access. And I'll give you an example. I travel a lot, and so I can't make it to many Apex meetings these days. However, if I wanted to join, to at least to know what's going on, to be a part of that meeting and not miss it entirely, that's great. But if you're only participating in the virtual environment, it is so lacking. And I mean, that's just a fact of life here. So, like any other tool, if it's used properly, fine. It's a great way to augment the in-person meeting, but it in no ways can replace it, and in no way can it have the same effectiveness in helping us develop as uh public speakers and certainly not as leaders in the same way as the uh in-person club experience.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think that hybrid meetings take away from the experience of the people who are in-person?
SPEAKER_01:Uh in my opinion, yes. Now, keep in mind, I've been to various clubs post-COVID who have employed virtual andor hybrid options in their meetings. And every club pulls that one off differently. And it is a resource. I think the leadership team should always be considering how effective you use any tool, whatever that may be. And just for an example, so going back to uh over the history of Toastmasters, I can think of, let's see, one, two, three, four, five different meeting locations that we've been at. Now they might have been a room in the same facility, but we were two different facilities in the uh in the previous location. We've been in to three different locations in our present uh meeting location. And every one of those was different, and some of those were much more conducive to the club meeting than others. You know, there is kind of a balance you have to strike as hey, what's what's practical, what's needed, what's best for your particular club, and putting those resources to work in the most effective way, which is why we're back to the importance of having a core leadership team that has continuity, that understands why we did something at one point and why we're not doing that now. So it does go back to having a strong leadership team and one that can maintain continuity over a longer period of time to sustain that so that we keep members engaged, help them maximize the Toastmaster experience for their own benefit, but at the same time dealing with the limitations that are always imposed upon us for any uh given situation.
SPEAKER_00:So I was president right after COVID, and unfortunately, during COVID, so many people dropped out. Yes, and among them experienced people. So by the time we got through COVID, there were very few of those people who remaining who were members before we went virtual and all that. So we lost a lot of institutional knowledge, I felt.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And I know and and by the way, and I'll I'll say here too the same thing was going on. The talk about institutional knowledge, the people that were there who came along in the traditional education program, and now with the move to pathways in that same time period, that was a double whammy there. Not only were you losing people, but even for the people who were experienced in stage, such as myself, pathways was a whole new experience. And if you were a mentor to a member, you didn't have that background experience to help guide them. It was new to everyone. So it was, yeah. COVID and uh implementation pathways came uh at a very inopportune time.
SPEAKER_00:But my major goal for the term of my presidency was try to trying as as we came back to in-person meetings, was to try to bring back into practice all those things that fell out of practice when we were just virtual. There were a million things, but but one of them in particular was people didn't know to clap after just things like that. Yeah. Simple things. How do you think how successful do you think pathways is compared with the older education?
SPEAKER_01:Comparing pathways to the traditional education program, no question that there are some big benefits that have been derived from pathways and some things that aren't as good, although I think that's being corrected, uh, which I'm just learning about. But let's go back to the big benefits. So the first benefit of pathways was that a member can more closely tailor their education program to their own individual needs and goals, much more so than the traditional education program. The second big advantage was that it really became more of a digital online experience that made it much easier, especially during COVID, for the member to get access to training resources, which were much better, much better than the traditional program, and to be able to move through that process at a pace that is good for them. So, no question, Pathways is a better overall program. Here's where the initial challenges with Pathways really fell short. Pathways focused again on the idea of developing a certain skill set in a certain area, such as presentation mastery. However, it took away all of the things that were part of the leadership aspects of it and what also required participation in club meetings. So if I'm correct, Pathways has just been updated pretty significantly to now include some of the very things that were so important to promoting the activities and engagement in the club, such as being an evaluator or uh taking on another role. So I'm I'm new to this. I'm I'm I'm just finding out that there's been this big update to pathways, but if if it's what it seems to be, it seems to be incorporating the best of the traditional program along with the best of what is now the pathways program. So I think that I'll say that that shortcore shortcoming or what was missing from pathways initially, I think that was recognized, and now I think that has been brought back in line with what really encourages the participation in club activities and more of the leadership skills that speaking alone does not address.
SPEAKER_00:One of the criticisms I've uh been hearing about pathways uh pretty frequently is that every time you start a new path, you have to repeat those initial projects. The icebreaker, yeah. Well, initial projects, yes. Yeah, including the icebreaker. And Kathy Berner was the first person who actually defended the repetition of the icebreaker. And and she said that there's new people in the club all the time, so you're reintroducing yourself to those people. And also you change as a person over time, so you can break the ice as the new version of yourself. I suppose that's what you meant. And I think that's a legitimate take on it. I do find myself getting annoyed when I hear someone give the your leadership style, you know, that's I thought that maybe a good solution to that would be to, you know, for the first 10 speeches, do what they did in the old program, which was have like a competent competent communicator track. And then once you graduate from that, move on to advanced stuff. What are your thoughts on all that?
SPEAKER_01:First of all, and I I should have mentioned this prior, as one of the shortcomings of pathways, and you're absolutely right, it is not as intuitive as to what you need to be doing versus the old competent communicator, like you said, 10 projects that were designed specifically to ease you into this process. And personally, I I like that idea a lot. Uh maybe that's what it should be, is something on those lines that makes it real simple. Of course, back then, too, was you you got a manual and it was very clear. You you could pick up the manual, you could look ahead, see where things fell in place. I heard someone give this complaint the other day, is that, and this is certainly applies to me. I come up with a speech idea, and my speech ideas are very well suited to one particular type of project versus another. And in the old school, I could go through a manual and go, oh, when I get to this project, I've got the perfect theme and the perfect idea to set up for this project. We don't have that in pathways, it's a much more sequential process, and it can be kind of limiting it when you're going, it can feel much more like I'm just going through the motions to get there. I don't know where I'm going necessarily, but I know I'm going somewhere. So that that said, I love the idea of maybe getting back to something that's a little bit more intuitive for a first-time Toastmaster. I will go back and defend the idea of starting the path over with something like an icebreaker because in fact I've got I've I've had to do this myself. And at first I was a little annoyed at it, as you said. It's like, how do you introduce yourself? Here's the way I would look at it. If you are doing a second icebreaker and you're an experienced Toastmaster, and I'm the evaluator, I'm not going to cut you the slack that you had gotten on your first icebreaker, which is meant to be for someone to really get into this for the first time and probably very nervous and doing it for the first time and not knowing what to do there. We're very easy on someone giving an icebreaker for the first time. We shouldn't be doing that for the second time. And in fact, I had I've joined another club and I'm using my icebreaker on another path to introduce myself to another club. And I realized I, and these are pretty advanced speakers, it's like I'm not going to get away with a casual, oh, let me put together a 40-minute, uh, six-minute speech, just telling a few things about myself. I've got to be very creative. Back to the other thing that I liked about a pathways, a level one, where you can give a speech, you can give the same speech over again to help start getting the idea of incorporating uh feedback from the evaluator. And then I think on level one, two, is when you also have to serve as an evaluator. Now, as we all know, an evaluator is probably one of the challenging, most challenging tasks in Toastmasters. And I think that if you didn't require that someone get started on that, even if they don't do it well at all, that I like the idea of making them get into the flight, so to speak, to do an evaluation for someone early on, because then, well, they get a better feel for what's involved with you know being an evaluator, but also understanding how to think about their own speeches, about how to structure them better, how to deliver them more effectively. So there's no right or wrong answer here. I do like that idea. Maybe there should be just a single track over first number of projects that says do these things. I think they're on the right path, so to speak. We'll we'll see how that plays out here in the coming uh months and years ahead.
SPEAKER_00:So, what do you think makes a compelling speaker?
SPEAKER_01:A compelling speaker is someone who is engaging, someone who can convey any sensual feeling, emotion, ideas, and a way that makes people want to listen. It's the uh the old uh speak to be understood, make someone want to listen to what you have to say. And of course, the first thing is having something worthwhile to say. And now That can take many different forms. That can be a very serious type of topic. It could be humorous, but the point is, yeah, you've got to be engaging and you've got to be able to use the most fundamental techniques of giving a speech effectively. And if you do that, of course, you're going to be an effective speaker. I think the challenge there is that there's different levels of effective speaking, you know, and depending upon the individual, what's appropriate for that person, given their own natural abilities, given their own natural tendencies and needs, and what their goals are. So what I might see as an effective speaker might be much more demanding than someone who goes, I'm just trying to become an effective speaker, and English is my second language. So different levels of effective speaking, but I tell you, I'm going to go back to just communication in general. How about if we do this? Not just a speaker, but just talk about communication. Ralph Waldo Emerson, the writer, said, the single biggest problem we have with communication is the illusion that it has occurred. So whether you're in a conversation with someone, whether you're giving a speech, the biggest thing for an effective speaker to attempt to do is to make sure that you're actually communicating something. And by the way, while Toastmasters definitely helps us in general around public speaking, it's a big aid also to developing the skills around being just an effective communicator. I mean, because think about what we're doing. We're learning how to take ideas that some can be very abstract and nuanced and to verbalize those. But also in some of the roles that we have, like evaluator, you've got to have critical listening skills. You've got to be able to organize thoughts quickly and present them in a way that is easily understood. And I think whether you talk about giving a speech or whether you're just having a conversation, then you know, effective communication depends upon all these skills. And we don't learn those from reading a book. You don't learn those from watching a video. You learn by doing. And for most of us, that is a process that takes time. And that's the one thing around Toastmasters. Whether you become a great speaker or not, the most important thing is that we do it and we practice it. We get as good as we can individually. And as good as we some of us think we might be at speaking, there's always so much more to learn, but you only get there by doing and through that repetition. And I, you know, I just, you know, I'm I am amazed. I think that was one of the first things that I really noticed about Toastmasters is the organization of the club meeting, about how you can bring someone into this organization, someone who's perhaps scared to death to get up and speak in front of others, someone whose English is a second language and lacks the confidence that they need to speak English confidently, perhaps at work or in social settings. Being able to go through this process with all the different roles in the club, everything from word of the day to being a prepared speech to being an evaluator or general evaluator or quote of the day, whatever it is. I got to give it to Dr. Rousey Smedley when he somehow came with a formula for Toastmasters club meeting. It really is an effective way to bring people and move them through that process. And now it's just up to the individual as to how they take advantage of that and how dedicated or how far they want to go in that process.
SPEAKER_00:What do you think makes a compelling club?
SPEAKER_01:Definitely one that is dynamic, that has vitality and is vibrant, because that's what people are attracted to. When you walk into a group of people, uh Toastmasters or anything else, I mean, do this at church, do this at work or whatever. There's a uniqueness in terms of the character of that group. And when it is engaging, when it is uplifting, when it is supportive of those who are new coming in. People respond to that. And by the way, I happen to think one of the most important aspects of Toastmasters, like other organizations, is just the social component of that, just getting together with people who are like-minded. By the way, it took me a long time to understand what makes Toastmasters truly unique. And it finally came to me, and that is, you know, as I looked around my room, I see different ethnicities, I see different socioeconomic situations, very well educated to very average in terms of education. I'm going, what is it that connects all these people together? Because it is a very diverse group of individuals, uh, more often than not. And it finally dawned on me is that the one personality trait that everyone who comes to Toastmasters has is a desire for personal development. You know, you don't come to a Toastmasters meeting for the social aspect of it, although that is nice if you have that to go along with it. Everyone who joins Toastmasters or even comes to visit has that inner desire to be better and especially better at communicating. And it's that common thread that makes this very diverse group of people. There's a certain mentality of people who are definitely working hard to make themselves better. And I think that very trait is what connects us all in Toastmasters. And we like being around other people who want to better themselves, who want to improve and develop as a human being. And I know that's the reason ultimately, although it took me a long time to figure out why it is I like going to a Toastmasters meeting so much, is for that very reason is that I'm around like-minded people who, like myself, want to become better. And because Toastmasters is an environment that is intentionally meant to be a nurturing and supportive, you know, where else do you find that kind of environment? I tell you, that's it is unique. Uh, and whether or not you ever get to a certain level in the education program or not, I know that people enjoy being a member of Toastmasters because around like-minded people in our world today, we really need that more than ever.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. And I think it's interesting that the mechanism for self-improvement is by facing the fear of public speaking or perfecting the ability to speak publicly. I don't think it's obvious or necessarily all that intuitive that that would be the mechanism for personal growth necessarily. But uh, but it is, and and I I like that, uh I like that process. You and I are both DTMs. DTM is a distinguished Toastmaster, it's the highest level that you can reach in Toastmasters. And we became DTMs in the old program, not pathways. So the question I have for you now is what are your goals past getting a DTM within Toastmasters? And how do you keep yourself motivated to continue?
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's a great question, and here's why. When I joined Toastmasters, I didn't have uh a particular goal in mind to become a DTM. I just joined Toastmasters as a very typical situation, and I think you can relate to this. I joined a Toastmasters club, and within uh probably within two months, I was an officer, I was a sergeant at arm. It's like, hey, we need somebody here. Well, okay, that willingness to step up and get engaged, which I think jumpstarted my Toastmasters experience. But from an education perspective, I would just kind of go with the flow. It was, as like said, here's my here's my competent communicator manual. I got these 10 projects, I'll get started with them and got through that and just kind of went with the flow. I took forever to get through this process to become a DTM, not because it was difficult or challenging. It's just that I guess I never really thought about it. If I had had a mentor at the beginning who could really lay out this whole process before me and say, start thinking about what it is you want to accomplish and maybe you know what that looks like, that would have helped me get started much sooner and have a better, a better sense of where I'm going with that process. So now back to this conversation between traditional programs and pathways. I have known many who got their DTM more than once through the old program. And in fact, it always puzzled me, it's like going, man, you're going all through this again. You're going right back through the competent communicator manual. You know, talk about boring and repetitive. Oh my gosh, you're back to giving the most basic, you know, speeches of all. Why are you doing that? They really weren't doing it for themselves. They were doing it in support of the club. They were, and they were doing it as, you know, basically be an example to newer members as well, too. This is kind of how it's done, type of thing. So it wasn't for them as a goal to get another DTM, which is kind of meaningless, right? It was, I'm going back through this process because it keeps me engaged and it supports our club that needed to meet certain requirements. So when I got to my DTM, and of course, remember what was going on. This was right at right as COVID, I was finishing up just as COVID was coming on strong, didn't kind of know it per se. I didn't even receive my award until into COVID, uh, which was kind of strange. It was delayed getting that done.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we received our reward at the same meeting.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. And I, brutally honest here, once I reached that point, I was kind of at a loss. We're still getting over, you know, the disconnect that occurred because of COVID. I'd reached DTM almost by chance. It wasn't like it was a long-term plan originally. And by the way, some of the things that uh the DTM had required, which was participation beyond the club, officer in the area or beyond, for instance, doing some other things with Toastmasters when COVID, all that was disrupted. So I I was really at a kind of a loss here as to what do I do next? And my participation in Toastmasters for a variety of reasons became very sporadic. It's only been recently here that I've kind of started to re-engage and actually joined again a second club for a variety of reasons. The idea of reaching a goal, that's why I always encourage have a mentor, someone who understands where they're going and help you get an idea of where you want to go. And that may not be reaching DTM. I think something like only, you know, a small percentage of Toastmaster people who join Toastmasters ever become DTM. And that's fine. That's a personal goal. That's not necessarily anything that anyone needs to achieve. And as you well know, George, even if we become distinguished Toastmasters, there's still a lot for us to learn. So going back to your question about what comes next, well, what comes next is continuing in pathways, not because I want to get another education award, it is because I know there's still plenty of development. Even in the simple projects that, or at least projects that seem simple to me, I know I can do those better than I did them the first time, for sure. In the process, I'm supporting the club. And that's one of the key things about Toastmasters. This isn't just about you, this is about helping others as well. Getting to a certain achievement level, that's great individually, but you didn't get there on your own. You had to have people supporting you throughout that entire process. And when you do reach a level, whether you continue on doing things, as a minimum, you should remain engaged in your club activities to support those who are on their Toastmasters journey. So it's a it's a win-win situation. I get to continue to learn and develop as a speaker. There's always something new that I need to learn. And I get done with a speech, just like the last one I did at Apex Toastmasters. It was a project I wasn't crazy about because I'm not good at it, but the reality is I got done. I said, boy, I could have done that so much better. Okay, I'm I'm I'm still learning and I'm supporting the club in the process. So going forward here, no matter what level you reach in Toastmasters, there's a reason for you to remain engaged on an ongoing basis.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think that's a great place to stop unless you have something else you'd like to get off your channel.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's a great way, hopefully, to summarize my perspective Toastmasters.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you very much, Don. I I really appreciate you taking the time to do this with me.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks, George.
SPEAKER_00:Apex Toastmasters is a president's distinguished club, founded in 1996 and located in Apex, North Carolina. The views and opinions of President are fully voted by hostile guests. I do not reflect the views or opinions of Toastmasters in general or Apex Toastmasters at the end of the day. If you enjoyed what you heard, please take a moment to like, share, rate, and review of this podcast. Thank you for listening.