Why Headcount is No Longer a Bragging Right with Adrian Bortignon

Is bigger always better in business? In this archive episode of Origin to Ambition, host Sean Dunne sits down with Adrian Bortignon, Managing Director at Kongo Industries, to discuss how modern technology, lean operations, and rock-solid values are reshaping business success.

Adrian shares how leveraging AI tools delayed Kongo Industries' need to hire additional staff by 12 to 24 months, allowing them to remain agile, profitable, and focused. He also breaks down the four core values that guide his business, the importance of face-to-face mentorship, and why being present for his family beats chasing short-term business flips.

Key Takeaways:

• The Shift to Lean Operations: Why headcount is no longer a metric for success, and how staying lean creates resilience and higher margins.
• AI as a Capacity Multiplier: How integrating AI and automation allowed Kongo Industries to delay hiring by up to two years without sacrificing output.
• The 4 Core Values at Kongo Industries:

Great Value over Great Margin

Long-Term Partnerships over Transactions

Current & Accurate Advice (Never Recycled)

Simplification as a Discipline

• The Power of Face-to-Face Mentorship: Why asking experienced founders out for a coffee chat is still the best business advice you can get.
• Old-Fashioned Customer Service: Maintaining high availability and personal connection in an increasingly automated world.
• Defining Values Early: Why every founder should articulate their non-negotiable value set early to guide decision-making during tough times.

Memorable Quotes:

"Headcount used to be a bragging point. Now, businesses that have taken a lean approach are being rewarded." — Adrian Bortignon

"Our four core values are: Great Value over Great Margin, Long-term Partnerships over Transactions, Current and Accurate Advice, and Simplification as a Discipline." — Adrian Bortignon

"The window of opportunity with your kids closes quickly. Continued presence in their lives is my most important personal goal." — Adrian Bortignon

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Origin to Ambition, the show where we explore the small business entrepreneurs' journey in business. I'm your host, Sean Dunn. Let's get into it. Well, look, I wouldn't suggest that I'm at the forefront of using AI, um, but I definitely in our business progress beyond using it as a search engine. And I have to be honest, it's probably it's at least delayed by, if not 12 to 24 months, us hiring two more people because we don't need them now, which is interesting. And and I don't I'm not suggesting we've got it to a level of sophistication that you would understand. But um I think, you know, I don't look at it like I'm I'm gonna be replaced by AI. I I see it as an opportunity to, you know, improve the speed and efficiencies and effectiveness of our business. And I think that's kind of what you're saying is that you embrace embrace the tool for what it can deliver. Great.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Yeah. And I think it's gonna reward businesses that have have taken an approach to being lean. In particular my industry, there's always been it's been a bragging point, how many people you hire. So head count as a bragging point. And I really feel for a lot of people now, because they're going to have to figure out how to look after these people when their jobs can be heavily automated. I've always run my business lean, so I feel like I'm I'm being rewarded for that approach.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Yeah, and we're the same. I mean, I came from a previous role where I'm going back a long time now, but it was financial advice, you know, businesses were built on headcount. How many, how many authorised reps can you get on board? That was the the name of the game. It's it's interesting. I still see some businesses now, small, I'd say small financial advice businesses that sort of use it as a bragging right as well. You know, we've got people who want to come and work for us, and that's great. I that's that's that's admirable, and I'm not suggesting otherwise, but I've I sort of left, and everyone, anyone who knows me knows I was at ING prior to starting my business, and I loved, absolutely loved working for ING. But headcount for me was sort of just something I didn't want in my business from day one. I didn't want to chase headcount at all. If anything, I wanted more admin, not more uh not more authorised reps. So but but now with technology, you know, even the admin as we're talking about now, and I sorry, I didn't mean to turn this into an AI chat, it's just that you've got it, you've got a unique perspective on it outside of what I've got and what some of our guests would would potentially have. So that's why I went down that path. Yeah, it's being lean's uh to be rewarded uh these days going forwards, obviously. Indeed. Indeed. Yourself personally, um I I won't ask about business because I think you've just given us where you want to push your business goals, but what are you working on personally? What goals are you working on for Adrian and his family?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

I I would say to be present. Continue to be present in my daughter's lives. So I I can see how much they value that. Well, I'm telling myself that hopefully they're they're kind to you. Hopefully they don't turn around as adults and saying that wasn't the case. But um I I think continue to be present, and that's in their personal development, that's in their education, that's in any pursuits that they might have, any interests they'd like to chase. Continue to enjoy the limited time that we have as a family unit before our kids fly the coop and and move on, which is something that is always in the back of my mind. How many summer holidays might we have left together before the kids are too old?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

So it's all yeah. W yeah, the the window closes quickly. Does it have the window of opportunity with your kids, I think. And yeah, I think it's uh sometimes it's good that that's a good piece of advice, is what you're giving, because I think some people don't realise it. Yeah, indeed.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

And just continue to stay active. So I've actually started, I've I've always been somewhat active, but it's difficult when you're busy. Now the diet might suffer or you might not be active as consistently as you like, but I've started lifting this year with a personal trainer, which has been really great, something different for me. I haven't lifted weight for 25 years. Yeah, yeah. So I'm doing that and really enjoying it, really enjoying challenging my challenging myself physically in a different way. And just continue to be in business. So I I've I've got no desire to slip my business and sell it and go and do something else. I'm enjoying it, enjoying the challenge of it. It gives my family a lot of options and choice. And so, yeah, I think doing more of what we're doing just better and making sure we're staying current.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Sean Dunn here, and thank you for watching this episode of Origin to Ambition, The Entrepreneur's Journey. I'm a financial advisor who specializes in working with small business entrepreneurs and high-income earning executives. We analyze cash flow, build assets, and protect those assets to help our clients do what they want when they want with the people that they want to do it with. So if that's of interest to you, head over to our website and book an initial discovery call, and I'd look forward to speaking with you. You've got a limited amount of resources and you're trying to extract maximum value out of those resources when you start, because it's not a blank checkbook, so to speak. But what's the value there of what what value do you place on building that team around you? Or and and we'll talk about how you might do that. But in terms of, and I don't mean this is not a loaded question about financial advice, but you know, having a business or personal or both financial advisor, the accountant, the solicitor, you know, a a mentor, whatever it might be, any range of advisors around you, the value of, you know, I think you alluded to you would have liked to have had those on board earlier, but is that fair to say that you should you should probably build a team early? 100%.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Yeah. Make sure you're not existing in a bubble. And it's really easy to be so focused on being on the tools and delivering your service, whatever that might be, or selling your product, but you can easily build a bubble around yourself and you just need to expose yourself to professionals and make sure you're getting advice from all angles as as often as you possibly can. And I was I was probably too afraid of of hearing the truth around certain things. So I'd shut that out, put my head in the sand a little bit, and I'd just hope for the best, hope for hope everything would sort itself out, but it never does. You really need to get that advice sooner rather than later.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Yeah. And I guess too, so what so any thoughts around back to that sort of resource, you know, your capacity around resources, and you may not have it. I mean, you know, sometimes in small business, you know, it's the old sweat equity type thing, you know, you've got to just flop away and do a lot of the stuff yourself because you you haven't got the the money to do it. How do you solve that? And you may not have done it early, and and I may not have done it early myself, you know, in business. But how would you recommend or think about solving that problem early? You know, like you haven't got the money, you can't pay for infinite advice.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

So yeah, I I would say there's there's certainly more options available to business owners today than there was in the early 2010s. But I I would say speak to people, put yourself out there, build build a network, find people who have real experiences and speak to them face to face. I think yes, you can go to a blog post, yes, you can read an article, yes, you might go and quiz a large learning model, but a large language model, but you you really need to speak to people, I think, to get a real sense of what it is they've experienced to really learn. So I'd say face-to-face advice is what I would give as as advice to to people starting out.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

I think too, and your thoughts on this, I think I think a lot of us when we start a business don't realise that a lot of other business owners are more than happy to share their knowledge and learning over a coffee or a beer or a lunch or whatever. And I know it's not everyone, but you'd be surprised more often than not, if you ask someone for a conversation, you'll get the conversation. Would you agree to that? Yeah. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yeah. There's like most of the time you there's a lot of hard work in running your own business and there's not a lot of accolades that that come. And to have to have somebody wanting to take a bit of time out of their day to learn from your experience is it's a nice feeling. So yeah, I would agree. Ask just ask and find people that have had genuine experiences. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

What as a business owner, what values do you see as being most important, you know, in running a business and and business in general? Yep.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

I I am a massive for me, having a good foundation and good, strong, a good strong value set is incredibly important. Something a North Star that I can always refer to. So the things that I'm always looking at is great value over great margin, long-term partnerships over transactions, current and accurate advice that's never recycled, and simplification as a discipline in our business. So they're they're the the the four key things that I'm always referring to. When I'm speaking to a prospect or I'm training a new team member, it's I they're the key values, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

That's that's also interesting because I think there's something there that I'm not sure this comes out often, but you've clearly worked at Congo, you and your wife Alex have worked on you know having those those values articulated and very clear. So that that sounds like a a well-planned set of a value set, is is that is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah. I'm very, very deliberate. It's something that and we're always challenging them as well. I think a a lot of really just the game that we're in being in a tech industry, what I know today is only going to be a half-truth six months down the track. So always I I'm in the habit of always circling back and asking questions of the way we do things and what's important to us. I would say we do question those values, but they've been pretty consistent for a long time. I think they they they will outlast any changes in technology and probably apply to most businesses.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Yeah, I think some of those, you know, when you've got a high high standard and and somewhat, you know, true, you know, it's sort of saying that you have integrity is pretty traditional sort of value to to try and hold to, that they are timeless, I suppose, to a point, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

And and availability too. So I I'm often part of a sales process that I hand off to a delivery team. But when we always kick off a new project, always saying to our clients, call me anytime, doesn't matter if it's a Sunday morning, I'm available. So being being available, I think is a it's some old-fashioned customer service that I certainly see is rare these days, particularly seeing we're moving towards automating a lot of those go-to-market motions.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I I think there's also a lesson in what you've just said around because I think a lot of business owners fall into business sometimes. So sometimes, you know, they take their passion, or I'm not trying to be cliched here, but they take their passion and want to make it into a business. Or or they just happen to have a skill set and circumstances roll them into being self-employed, and they think, oh, well, I've got a skill set, I'll, I'll, I'll commercialise it, rather, for want of a better term, or m monetize it. But I think sometimes there is a bit of a falling into business, like sort of by almost by accident. And and I think if you find yourself doing that, um, it's it's interesting that you should maybe step back and and clearly define your values. So I guess I'm I'm circling back to what you were just talking about, which was you've got a very clearly defined value set, but sometimes that doesn't come early in someone's business journey. And and it's probably a I I'd be keen, I I think you'll agree. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but if we thought about that early in our business journey, it would actually just give you a framework to always sort of have as a fallback. You know, when you when things get tough or when you're not sure how to deal with a certain client or customer or patient or whoever it might be that you can fall back to that. Is that like would you advise that is what I'm saying. Yes, uh, indeed.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

And if it's it's not always obvious that you need that. With a a a larger business, you can have a much bigger team and great people around you to guide you, but when you're starting a a small boutique business and that the resources aren't there, then you don't know what you don't know. And that's where I probably we spoke about what I would do differently a little bit earlier in this session. I'd probably stick at it at uni. I'd probably finish some sort of business degree first as well. That way, if I am going to bootstrap a new business, then I know just a little bit more of maybe the formal framing of what to do and not to do. I know we're always putting entrepreneurs on a pedestal who've left uni and and started a business, but we don't often hear about the difficult things that they encounter on the way to becoming a huge success story. So I would say definitely a formal business education is is uh valuable and something I wish I had done.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

And that's all for this episode of Origin to Ambition. Thanks for tuning in. To make sure you don't miss our next conversation, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen in. For more information, you can visit us at DominiumCapital.com.au and we'll see you next time.