What If Diversity Is Simply Harmonious Inclusion

Progress can be a loaded word in Freemasonry, especially when people confuse it with getting everything perfect. From inside Lodge of Progress No. 22, we talk with the Worshipful Master about why “progress over perfection” is not lowering the bar, it’s choosing a healthier way to grow. That single shift links straight to wellbeing, confidence, and staying engaged in lodge life without the stress of needing to nail everything instantly. 

We also go deeper than the usual diversity and inclusion talk. Our guest shares his story as a Filipino immigrant in Christchurch, including the awkward moments of learning Kiwi colloquial English, reading the room through a new cultural lens, and trying to find a real sense of belonging. He offers a simple, memorable definition of diversity in a Masonic context: “harmonious inclusion”, then expands it into something practical for everyday life: belonging without the assumption of ownership, and relating without erasing differences. If you care about community, leadership, or just becoming easier to be around, this part will land. 

From there we tackle the values people associate with Freemasonry in New Zealand: brotherly love, relief, and truth. We talk charity as more than money, including presence, empathy, and helping a brother through stress. We also address common misconceptions about Freemasonry and religion with calm clarity, then finish with Lodge of Progress history and a nod to its 150th anniversary, including the symbols that keep pointing back to the theme: keep moving, and learn from the past. 

If you enjoyed this, subscribe to The Masonic Mic, share it with a mate, and leave a review so more people can find the conversation.

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Transcript

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Sponsor And Welcome To The Lodge

SPEAKER_00 0:12

This episode of The Masonic Mic is proudly brought to you by Masonica, Connecting Freemasons. Masonica is the essential app for New Zealand Freemasons, bringing the craft together in one digital space. Stay connected with the latest, news, updates, events, and more right at your fingertips. Download Masonica today and join the growing network of brethren across New Zealand. And now, welcome to the Masonic Mic, where we tune into the frequency of Freemasonry, sharing insights, stories, and conversations that illuminate the craft here and beyond.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

Worshipful Brother Libido. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Good. Good morning, brethren. Good morning. Where are we today? We are inside the most progressive lodge in South Island.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

Yeah. Very lucky to be here. Um tell us about what's been happening this week.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Uh it's been great. It's a it's a busy week. And the good thing about today is we've got some nice sunny day.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

Finally.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Uh we still have the colds, but uh I can bear with it. So it's gonna be an exciting day. It's gonna be a busy day. We are expecting an installation and attending an installation as well. Um later today, it's 150 years for the uh Calgary club winning. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Interesting. So you said that we're in the lodge, the most progressive lodge in the South Island of New Zealand. Would that even be in the world?

SPEAKER_02 2:06

I would love that idea, brother.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

What is the uh more global? For our listeners, what is the progressive, what is what do you mean when you say the progressive lodge?

Progress Over Perfection In Masonry

SPEAKER_01 2:15

What is where are we? So we're in a lodge. Is it what makes it progressive?

SPEAKER_02 2:20

I always love using the term progressive. Um uh it's actually it comes down. We have this old saying that uh practice makes perfect, right? Yeah, and um at the time, days, months, you just evolve, and then with our journey, we try to change that perception now because um it's sometimes it's so difficult to get into perfections, it causes a lot of stress, and we're talking about well-being, mental health. And so I would prefer progressive, yeah, because as we progress, it leads us to perfection. It takes time, yeah, it doesn't put more uh put more weight on your shoulder, put more stress to be there perfectly at that instant, just slow, progressively, and that's why I call this Lodge one of the most progressive lodge because our brothers are very proactive as well, uh, very engaging, um, very motivated. And so they tried to learn more of our craft as well. And there's a journey, it's getting there, it's getting progressively. That's why I call it the most progressive by the word itself, the Lodge of Progress number 22. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

That's right. And it was the um is the is that your reason for becoming a Freemason? Is it for progress?

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Yes, so but it took me time. What uh drives me to join Freemason? So my dad is a Freemason. Oh really? I didn't know that. Okay, yep. He's a Freemason in the Philippines, and probably because the reason I joined because uh, you know, as a son, uh that's my dad. Yeah, yeah. My dad is my idol. I I idolize him as well. So you know. So he's he's a Freemason. Oh, I'd better join that one as well. And in the Philippines, you know, a lot of Freemasons there. Freemasons in the Philippines, it's like a status quo as well. I just want to be there. But I don't have full understanding yet, what is that? I don't even look at oh, what are the secrets? No, I'm not there yet. I just want to be in the Freemason because everyone, all the quality people are in the Freemason. And so that's how my journey started in the Philippines.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

So when you say quality people, uh Freemasons, you're talking about um uh personal aspects, you know, uh things that make them um good people to you, whatever that may be.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Correct. Um most of the members there are highly professional people as well. And it becomes a status quo as well. But there's a misconception there as well, if you're new. So bring that mic up. You're gonna join.

unknown 5:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Because if you're new and you don't have a proper understanding of what's pre-mase, I'm gonna join, there's some connectivity there.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

So did you join in the Philippines or did you join in New Zealand? I joined in the Philippines.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Oh, really? But I have an unfinished business in the Philippines, so I did not complete that one. Yep. And then when I arrive in New Zealand, uh I meet some Filipino brothers, and then as I found out, oh, there's Freemason here.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Did you not know that? Did you not think that there could be Freemasons in New Mason? I knew, but I don't know where. Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

So, and then we had that it just happened that I have a uh a colleague, same professions, have conversation. He's a Freemason. Wow. And we have that conversation, I am keen to join. And then I joined, it's because I just want to continue that unfinished business in the Philippines and to be there. But when I joined Freemasonry, I enjoyed the journey. It takes time actually. When I was there, and the journey is ongoing. The journey is ongoing. I don't think it's gonna end with your curiosity and your again, I'm gonna use the word progressiveness in life.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

The catchphrase for today. The catchword for today? Yeah, progress.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Progress. Well, we are inside the large of progress number 22.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Which you are the worshipful master of. Yeah, but we'll get to that. We'll get to that correct.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

And so um, probably the first two years, I was in Freemasonry, but I was still in limbo. Like I've been listening there, just observing, what is this? Uh am I going to continue this one? Where am I? But then it changes. That's when some senior um brethren approaches us, giving us some tasks, giving uh giving us some charge uh to deliver.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

So going back to your your beginning journey, did you join the same lodge as your father?

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah.

unknown 7:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

I did join the same lodge as with my father. Um I think it's a uh it's a typical uh ways of like I'm still young during the time and where my father is, so I'll go there. So I joined there at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Yeah, I guess it's uh the the safe place, I think you you know it. You know that he's your dad, he's gonna look after you, so you kinda exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

And with that uh saying is actually when I arrived in here and joined Freemasonry. I joined a lodge. Uh there's only a few Filipinas. I did not uh was not able to join the uh where majority of Filipinos are in the lodge. I was in another lodge where there's few Filipinos. I think there's only one, two of us. And so I joined the uh unanimity uh Sumna number three.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Um and that was a challenge with me, being new in New Zealand and then diversity, how to be diverse, how to connect, right? Because that's all is that's always a challenge for an immigrant.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

So I have to ask then, in the Philippines, this is maybe a dumb question, but in the Philippines, are the lodges in English or are they in

From The Philippines Into The Craft

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Tagala?

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Uh English is our our um our national language is Filipino. Right. Call it one. Or Tagalog. Yeah, right. But then uh we were taught from preschool to college our medium of communication is actually English. So you you're lingual, so yeah, yeah. That's why we can do the obligations, you know. Same uh with the it's global, you know. So uh, but again, I haven't finished my journey there. I was on the on that stage, the starting one. Because I I move places. And I think my understanding there was I could not go to another lodge if I haven't completed in here. I need to do the process again. And it takes time here. Um I don't know. Probably these are my misconceptions. We start in here, we go in there, and you can you know continue the journey there. That's the uh I think the point of difference. We could not just move other lodges. I think there your name needs to go to the whole archipelago. And what's the status of this person, you know? So and my my my my work before I need to travel, I need to go from other places. I only go home like the weekend. So and I think our meeting there was Friday, and I could not um get in that. So that was one of the hindrances actually. And um I think I don't look good there because he could not so but I was clear with them. It's my work, it's over 100 kilometers, 200 kilometers away. Um, but that's just how we work there. We we can't just go home. Um the work-life balance there was quite different, and um so yeah, so that was the challenge. So going now to New Zealand, my first challenge to myself is how am I going to incorporate myself with the locals here? Um second is the communication, you know. Um we know English, but we have American English. Yeah, English is quite uh tricky. And then when I arrive in here, we have the colloquial English as well, right?

SPEAKER_04 11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

I'm trying to understand what I so that's my second challenge. But it's actually about the core one there is the sense of belonging. So that was the biggest challenge. Because I need to understand the culture, I need to understand the roots, how they behave, what's the behavior, how should I act, how should I, so that I will not get I will not offend the other person. And then I'm just lucky that the brethren there are also very accommodating. So I started in uh unanimity of Samna, number three, and then when I moved to Lincoln, and that's what uh where I'm found out that we've got the large progress, number 22. And then I moved here. But then on that journey, on those years, I am on a stage of still questioning myself, challenging myself. Uh uh to be honest, pops out in my question: what am I doing here? What can I get from here? You know, how am I how am I going to grow here? I've been asking that question. Shall I continue or shall I not?

SPEAKER_01 12:54

You know? Can I ask why you decided to move from the Philippines to New Zealand? Is that so not? I am happy to share with that.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

I've been sharing these stories into my work as well. So I did not come to New Zealand for work. Okay. My wife arrives here first from Australia. She moved here uh 2013, something, or 14, or 12. And then um said, Hey, you need to come to New Zealand now. What are you doing in the Philippines? In the Philippines, I was busy with my work. Right. I was in the consultancy firm, we're building a motorway project, and Science about to close out that project, and I was the um contract management there, doing those things. And my wife was getting pissed off. And he she might be thinking other things as well. Oh, hopefully not. Is he doing there? And so I decided, okay, I'll go visit um New Zealand. And but before that, I have already a contract to go to Qatar because of the motorway project in there, which is for the World Cup of Qatar. And so I arrived here. My plan is how am I going to tell my wife that I'm not just here on holiday? I'm gonna go to Qatar. But it's so interesting, and I think that's what we call destiny. So when I arrive here, I come from a busy, crowded place, noisy place as well, full of lights. And then when I arrive in here, I could not see people, right? And then what am I gonna do? Because my wife was still working. I'm just gonna scroll around the stroll around the city. And then that's another problem because we are on the left side, so it's a challenge. But I did my best because I I could not walk here, it's cold as well.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

You mean driving? I drive driving on the other side of the road. I had that experience. Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

I'm not gonna lie. I had, but I was driving on the other side of the road inside the subdivision, so that's fine. Yeah, that's true. You will only knew you were on the wrong side if you have someone in the other lane approaching and say, Oh my god. But then it was quick. I mean, yep. I think we don't have any problem. I don't see any police during the time. So no one was tasting me. But I end up in Latimer Square, and I love the name of the pub. Lunchtime, I end up in there three days after. It's a bloody merry pub. Grab a beer, have a conversation. There's another person there. We're having a conversation, he's asking a lot of questions. After two hours, I think almost three hours, June. We're looking for this role. Would you like to join us? Here's my card. Come and see me at this place. Wow. Oh my goodness. So I have an instead of so I got mixed, mixed feeling. Instead of getting like should be happy, right? I was having mixed emotion again because I have a Qatar and I'm getting this work. I need to make decisions. But before making the decisions, I went to Rang Yora. I did not realize. I saw Rang Yora, but I did not realize Rangora is like 45 almost an hour. Yeah. And I'm new. So um having conversation, I could not forget that person. Just sign this, and it will change your life. Yeah. And I'm happy I ch I I signed that one. I rang my um my manager in the Philippines. He's going to be my manager in Qatar. I'm not going anymore. I'm I'm going to stay in New Zealand. And he did say he made the right choice. I think those people surrounding me during that time were like my guardian angels. Because I was still having a second thought. Should I stay? When I arrived here, it's so quiet. Because it's cold. And everything's damaged, it's so lonely. It's different. But thanks that I did sign at one and stayed in New Zealand. And everything was history. So I got to work. And then three months after I was able to bring our kids. So that's how I end up. That's how I arrived in New Zealand.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

And what year was that when the kids came over?

SPEAKER_02 17:39

So that was 2014. It's only uh a um a three-month gap. Uh that company we're still friends until now. We're still um reaching out, texting, sending messages. They're so kind with me. Um and it's so hard to leave that company as well. Um because they're so kind, you know.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

But anyway, we need to make some good decisions in our life as well, so we just need to move on. So, but that's how I arrived in uh New Zealand. And I did not in particular in Christchurch. And I but anyway, going back it's all about diversity, right? And me as a migrant, immigrant. I need to understand that

Migration Challenges And Finding Belonging

SPEAKER_02 18:30

one. Because you need the sense of belonging, right? And diversity actually. My understanding is uh the recognition and then the respectfulness of being inclusive. The in uh respectfulness of the inclusion of the differences, right? So yeah, from from different culture, race, religion, beliefs, so so that even that word I respect. So it's a two ways.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

I need to respect that one, and we need we need to respect each other.

SPEAKER_04 19:13

And it's earned, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 19:14

It needs to be earned. I can't be given, really. Yeah. It's always, yeah. And so that that's that that's uh that's what I was trying to understand. How am I going to have that sense of belonging? I need to start with that one. And that's exactly the definition of diversity as well, in based on my understanding, recognition, and respectful inclusion of our differences in culture, background, or belief. And then we've got the the Masonic, I call it the Masonic definition as well. The Masonic definition of diversity is in my own opinion. This is my this is how I see the definition. Uh, how many words is that? Just two. Harmonious inclusion. Yeah.

unknown 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

So probably in the Webster dictionary, you will encounter there recognition and respectful inclusion. In the Freemason, just narrowed into two words, harmonious inclusion. So we need harmony, right? To be diverse.

unknown 20:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

And I also remember there, um because we're talking already, we're just discussing about um sense of uh belonging. Uh it's actually, yeah. Belonging, so we need to connect, right? So so so I'd like to share this one because we always hear this word, connectivity. We need to connect, we need to engage, right? But what is connectivity, right? It's not only about knowing that person. In my opinion, it's actually about trying to understand the journey, the roots, and then that sense of belonging. Belonging without the assumption of ownership and relating without erasing the differences. So I always like to emphasize that one.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

So one more time, just say that it they say that whole thing. So so uh belonging without connectivity is more than knowing it's not only by knowing, but understanding the journey, the roots, and then the sense of belonging.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Belonging without the assumption of ownership, and then relating, we need to relate, without erasing or removing. The differences. And that's how we're gonna be connecting to each other. And that is where Freemason's coming in. The deep connectivity. It is going to be again the word progress. Not harmony. Not harmony. Oh, there's already harmony in there. The harmonious inclusion, right? Yeah. So yeah, that's that's that's the diversity.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Do you think that being uh your heritage as a Filipino has that embedded in the culture? Or is that something that you've had to develop from your journey from Philippines to New Zealand? For for being harmonious? Well, for no, for the uh for the being diverse and inclusion, uh harmonious with that. Yeah. So is it a very uh accepting culture?

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Um in the Philippines is like, what is that, 7,100 something islands? And we have a joke about that one. Low tide, high tide. Because there was a beauty pageant, it's it didn't miss universe, I think. And one of our representatives there was asked, and that's where all started, high tide, low tide. But anyway, so among the islands, we've got I think 250 plus more dialect across 250. We call it Filipinos, and we have the dialect Tagalog, but that's our national dialect so we can understand each other. Right. And so we need we need to work out our to become harmonious to each other. And because of that differences, we we have a lot of differences as well. We have different tribes. So, how are we gonna interact even with just a simple dialect? It's a challenge. We need to learn. I only few some dialects even back home. So, and that's where I think we grow up to how to adapt, to connect, and make sure there's harmony. And if you see a Filipino, we always smile, right? And those smiles actually has a lot of meaning there as well. He can be happy, or that person can be confused. Yeah, non-offensive, just yeah, yeah, yeah. So, because sometimes if we do not understand things, yeah, if we could not understand what you're saying, we just smile.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Yeah, because you don't want to come across offensive, correct. So you don't want to that's how we we uh engage, and um, and I think that's how we work of it, uh harmonious relationship.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

So, but we are we are very open. We are very um we love we love gatherings, hospitable, hospitality. That's number one character of a Filipino. And we do it by singing. I'm not gonna give you a simple song here anyway. So we have food. I think it's it comes from food. It's the nearest how do you how do you say that from the uh from our wife? To get near to the man's heart is through food. But anyway, yeah. Yeah, but anyway, yeah. So and if we go back to the history of Philippines, you know. Um I think there was some some presentations already being done here in um in um Christchurch and in the country bore, I mean.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

You have to forgive me. I didn't do any I didn't do any research realistically. I just had a vague don't mean to be offensive. I don't didn't know I don't really know that much about the Philippines, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Um I think we will suggest that they should do another presentation. Yeah. And you will see. So um it was done ages ago, and then the recent one was in um Ashborn. The lodge of research from Timoron, I think, went to Ashburton, and we uh was fortunate to attend that one. We were in our uh it was held in um Ashburton Lodge. We were on our national dress called the Barong. The Barong? Yeah, so that's our national dress. And our steam brothers there um presented some good presentation about the history of Philippines and Freemason there.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

It's a massive role. It's a silly question, again. You'll get this from me. You said your national dress, is that what you'd wear to lodge?

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Uh official location in the Philippines, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

So that's your Masonic wear, is that, or would you not wear that? Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Yeah, we have a uh that's where you see the yeah, the the the white but there's different types there. There's different types, okay. And then you've got the other one, which is the milky see-through. Right, yeah. And that's the official one. That's uh any official event, that's how you're gonna dress up.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Right, okay, because there's a lot of listeners that are not masons as well. And so they'll be thinking, you know, what do you even you know? We've got to sort of uh we've got to bring light to the darkness with regards to certain things like how you know, as Freemasons, we we just don't rock on up and shorts and and and t-shirt. You know, we do have a dress. There is a a coat of dress that in New Zealand we wear for lodges. And uh and so I guess that changes uh in the Philippines.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

It's diff well that's um that they have do we st we still have the because we have the suit here, which is like okay. Yeah, but there we okay, we need to wear this. Is our national sure, yeah. That's it. Yeah, um, yeah. But saying that that barong, it's quite challenging to wear here because it's a see-through. We did it in winter.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

It's called I guess climate.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

It's um yeah, yeah. But there's also a story there. Why it's a see-through shirt. Um it's about the American time colonization in there, and then Philippines went into dependence, but then Americans and Filipinos are brothers, the Freemason brothers. Um, but hey, we're at war during the time as well. Now you can come in and attend all these occasions, but we just want to see. There's nothing concealed. Wow. That's how we did enough. But um uh I don't know much detail there, but that's what I found

Connectivity Without Erasing Differences

SPEAKER_02 28:50

out and learned. So hopefully, if we have that another presentation, so whoever is watching this uh or listening to this podcast, um brothers, let's do another presentation. Absolutely. Um but I think there's an initiative now to not only Filipinos, Freemason, but other um, you know, can share their how that it started.

unknown 29:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Because Freemason, it's it uh it actually I don't know if it just helps.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

It probably molded You mean like sharing stories and uh the values you mean?

SPEAKER_02 29:26

The values and how from revolution it was Freemason. Our flag, Freemason. Our heroes, they're Freemason, they're brothers.

SPEAKER_04 29:39

Is it true that the what's the currency in the Philippines? Peso?

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Peso, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:44

Yeah. Because we were Was there a square compasses on uh I'm sure I saw one online once.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

I don't know if it was I'm not sure anymore, because it's been a long time I haven't seen. Uh but what I'm sure is the US dollar is very Oh well yeah. But in the Philippines, I'm uh I don't know about the money now, because uh it's been a while. I haven't seen, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

Okay. Yeah. I I I I thought there was like a uh limited release that had the screen cuts on it or something, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Freemason there is heavily in deeply part of history, the liberation, the revolution, yeah, and become a democratic country. It's all driven by Freemason Brothers.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

And the name was serious.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Sorry. No, you're right, you're right. Yeah, that's uh I think we were talking earlier on about uh the French Revolution. In fact, we were talking about change. And so and having to create change uh and seen as change instead of um just rabble rousing. Um and so do you feel that Freemasonry in New Zealand uh offered an inclusion uh that it it created a sense of belonging for you?

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Yes. Yeah, I could not be a a masa in the lodge and then be happy being a massa if I don't have I don't felt that one, feel that one. I have all full support from my brothers, and if you're not happy, you cannot actually make some right decisions in there and keep the president engaged. So it means I can do that, I can do that, I can do all of those um initiatives, projects. It's because I'm fully supported, and that's the inclusion. Going back to that question is actually that brotherly relief and trust. That's all about diversity. Yeah, the brotherly relief and trust. I can share some here that that brotherly love, yeah. Brotherly love is about respect regardless of race.

unknown 32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

We welcome men of all faith. Yeah. So that that's very that's all about diversity. That brotherly love, because we like our brotherly love, but how can you love that person? And again, we're going back to that recognition and respectful inclusion, right? So it's all about diversity as well. Um the truth. Um the relief, right? So it's all about charity. Charity works, but the charity works taught us to offer support. Yeah, irrespective of who they are, who we are. We we we do not uh delineate like oh I need to do charity. I'm talking I'm generalizing things here. And as charity, but I need to choose I'm gonna do charity here. No, because as as a Freemason, we do that relief, we do that charity. And yeah. And then um another thing I'd like to share about the relief is um so it's not all about uh charity in terms of money. It's also about showing support, you know. And here it's about teachers to show empathy and service to the needs. Yeah. We can always show uh do some charity, just raising money, but part, connect, you know? Show empathy. So and again we could not do that. And we didn't need to choose which one are we going to help.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

That's just important for everywhere as well. It's not just the community, but it's within our lodge and uh sister constitutions as well. It's it's uh Oh, you're dead right.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

And I think um I think that because Freemasonry is old and in the past there were whether it be by use of force or not, that's another another time for another discussion, but religion was the compass, moral compass bearer of most um in antiquity and pre-um Yeah, I understand that's there's some witchcraft before that. Yeah, but pre-P pre um, you know, monotheist uh monotheism and that, which is still relatively uh moral compassing. But the point being that there was always a sense of right and wrong, and uh there was always m morals or largely ethics. And so, but there has a as you look in uh earlier the recent history, it kind of the the church lost its grip relatively, and a lot of the core meanings kind of became something other. So you did write the charity uh charity is more than like you say just giving material. In fact, the best form of charity is if um is to relieve a brother of anguish or stress, because it's not for us to sport with your emotions, if you can recall that um that was that was discussed in part of the part of our Lodge proceedings, that it's not for us to sport with your emotions, but however, if you had, would you have given? So if you see a brother that is that doesn't have any money, that's one form. But if you can see a brother that is nervous, uh has something going on other than financial, that is I think what it means to be charitable. It's to say, you know, um, you come around to my house, mate, my old mate, you know, and um oh when you get there, you oh by the way, you gotta cook. Immediately you're like, oh my god, I've got obligations. You're not relieving me. Um this is not and so I mean, I think they found that if you're a business owner, you gave if you gave praise, that's worth more than giving um a raise in money value. If you are recognized, if you are um if you are what's the word, you know, um uh recognition. If you're recognized, yeah, um, that's worth way more than anything. So yeah, and I I've been thinking actually while you've been talking about those two words, harmonious inclusion, and I think I can tolerate I think I can I think I have reduced it down to one word, the aspect of the what we're talking about. Um, and it's come to me recently, and it's basically my I think it's my my why for Freemasonry or what is Freemasonry. And it's taught me this lesson, which is um tolerance. That's the one word is tolerance. Um, you know, like we say, you know, brotherly love. Well, you don't have to like your brothers. You don't have to like them. Um, you know, they like they like red, I like blue. I don't like that, but I love them. All right. You know, that's the thing, that's the unconditional love. It's like, oh, you you you drive a Mazda, I like Toyota, Ford, Holden. I don't like that, but I love you.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

So that is where the relating without erasing differences.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Exactly. Yeah. So if I can if I can accept the differences in others, uh, then everyone else should be able to accept me for mine, and I should feel relieved and comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

So that yeah, that's actually then going back again to that um uh uh what is that the uh inclusivity inclusiveness that with

Brotherly Love Relief Truth In Practice

SPEAKER_02 38:20

um without assumption without assumption of ownership of ownership and then relating without erasing differences. So um going back again, you know, about charity, it's not all about monetary money, but it's actually aside from that, it's to show empathy in your presence. Because at the end of the day, if we have a brother who are distressed, our I don't know if we call it responsibility, is actually to be there. That person from that moment, he only needs someone he can talk to and share, and to make him feel good, make it lighter, and probably you can provide you don't know how okay, what how much is that? What are we gonna do? No, you just want to share stories, what's going on, his journey, about his life, and then you will be there, bro. We are the same, you're not alone. I'm also having that problem. This is how we do it. Ah, I thought it's only me. So how do we do that? Everyone's doing it. This is how we're gonna do it. That's the presence, that's the relief, that's what we need to be there. Yeah, and again, that's going to connectivity and then diversity again.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

So, would you say that that would be a cultural thing? Because I've got to be honest, and this is a gross exact um generalization, but every every Filipino breathing that I have met is friendly. Bar none. I would agree with that. They are like friendly, friendly, like wonderful men. Like, you know, I I don't actually think I could get, you know, when you get a guy who's that old grumpy guy. Like, you know, yeah, isn't there? No, there could be some of them, you know, but this mature there's there's definitely seen too much, but there's definitely not a um a senior Filipino that I would consider that is that I've ever met anyway. Not to say that doesn't exist, but would you say that that is that's what I'm getting at? Is that part of the Filipino culture? Like you're saying, uh are they generally uh would you say that the New Zealand culture is not as a friendly as the Filipino culture?

SPEAKER_02 40:39

That's a very good question. And that's how I call good I had those previous notes as well before. That's what we call cultural lens. Yeah. So I'll read the definition for that. It refers to the perspective on which we interpret or understand people by our own cultural background, values, belief, and experience. So sometimes we judge a person because we are measuring that person based on how based on our roots, how we grow up, our values, our foundation. And then that person he also believes and assess himself that he's doing he's doing the right thing based on his culture. And that's where we that's where we need that diversity comes in again. That that uh recognition and acceptance, right? We need to see that because we have this cultural lens now. We are making assessment, understanding, judgment of a person due to our roots. So so yeah, so it depends. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big question. Yeah, but everyone globally generally, I think we are all brought up to start being nice. Freemasonry will teach us with all those charges, how to be those morals, is how we are gonna grow maturely as a person. You mean like meeting on level and parting on the square? Meeting on level is a good start. Yeah. We meet on a level. But then how are you gonna stay that that humility?

SPEAKER_04 42:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Because we've got um alpha males, we've got this ego. But how are we going to remind, constantly remind ourselves we meet on the level? Uh I'm not saying, but it's typical for uh even with Freemasonry or at work, once you progress with real roles, you forget you meet on the level. And there are people getting offended because hey, you know, I'm already in the higher, why are you treating me like that? Yeah, you are you need we have what we call in the Filipino, you still need to eat a lot of rice. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, uh you have less experience yet, you need to eat a lot of rice. You still need to eat a lot of rice. So remember that one?

SPEAKER_01 43:12

You're like me?

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Yep, you still need to eat a lot of rice.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

If there would be one misconception that people have about Freemasonry that you'd like to clarify, what would what would that be? So there's a lot of misconceptions about Freemasonry. And if you were to I don't know, would that be the one misconception of Freemasonry that you'd like to clarify? That it's not a religion, or we it's it's that the the religious side of things is your personal belief, and it's it's not um in any way Freemasonry isn't um doesn't have a doctrine or what have you?

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Uh I know what you mean in there. I think it's just how we're gonna approach that and how do we need to be Very careful there as well. But we need to be clear as well. We need to put a stand now um because again everyone has its own belief and they were there in that silo for how many years? They were doctrinized. That's it, that's it, that's it. And you cannot change that. You just need to respect that. Yeah, tolerate it. Yeah, tolerate. Respect. Recognize, you know? Because that's the differences. Dealing with that person now, that's your differences. And that's in that silo. That's the and then here we are. But they're gonna challenge us. What I normally do, again, on my own opinion and in my own ways of dealing with those is I just explain to them like, hey, what we're doing here is we believe in God. The reason we are not very specific about religion, because we are so diverse, we believe in diversity, our brother brotherly love, relief, and truth, moral values are incorporating that one. And so we accept different race, different religions, different belief. But we believe in God. We all believe in God. You believe in that God, you be the other religion believe in that God. Freemasons also believe in one supreme being. We come with different religions. And we do not uh go in that challenging the religion. We just let them be because we accept them, right? All other religions. Get in there, yeah. And we're when we are when we got I don't say when we are in the lodge, they don't understand that one. They might be thinking about what lodge is that because you know to some other we gather there, we don't even talk about politics because we meet in the level. Talk about religion. And and again, I think we just need to keep reminding our brethren there as well. That's why we meet in the level. Let's talk about things that would cause differences, and if we have any difference, it's in the first degree. They charge uh is that after investigation or something. If you have any differences, talk about that one before you enter, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

So that's how I deal with if there's some religion challenging Freemasonry and then this misconceptions because they're being doctrinized as well. It's like company, anyway. If you're competing, there's some branding they're bringing, we have our own branding as well. But it's matured enough. And you don't need to argue there. Sometimes silence is the perfect answer if they keep going there. All you need today, I have already shared my insights. I fully accepted your I don't say you are wrong, but I fully accepted that one. But I'm just sharing you now what we're doing. That's it. And it's up to that person to assess and identify. No need for argument like now you're wrong. Sometimes uh provocation leads to you know confrontation. So being Freemason, again we grow progressively to be matured to a mature thinking. That is a progressive science, isn't it? Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

It's really great. Um out of all of the um misconceptions, wacky ideas, uh conspiracy theories, and complete absolute garbage, what is one of the one of the worst that you've heard? I think we all I've heard a lot of all one. Oh, we say you won't surprise me because of uh I've actually created a few of my own, even. But no. Uh I just wondered which uh w what would be one of the biggest misconceptions that you have heard people say?

SPEAKER_02 48:22

The most common one is uh we don't believe in God.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Really?

SPEAKER_02 48:31

And then uh we are on the other side. Instead of the light, they think we are on the dark. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:38

And this is what I brought up with you before, you know, whether Freemasonry can work together with your self-professed religion. I think it can personally. Obviously. It can actually show that it can.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

I go to church service to uh

Cultural Lens Humility And Meeting On Level

SPEAKER_02 49:02

to listen some good words as well. Just to keep me motivated again and to remind me. Um and I have all my own belief as well. Like I believe in God. If we pray, I know what I'm praying and I know who am I praying. We might be in the same religion, but you might be praying on different, you know. And I just go to that religion because hey, this is how I grew up. And oh okay. Okay, I'm hearing those words, yep, good. I'm being motivated. And then I go to Freemasonry. There's actually not much difference. It's actually the Freemasonry is just reinforcing, it's getting more detailed of what we learn in the religious side. So and I think that's what we need to uh to uh which came first then.

SPEAKER_04 49:58

The egg. The egg, is that where you're going? Uh ultimately there's a or was it the chicken?

SPEAKER_01 50:04

It has to be the egg.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

No, it's a chicken. But yeah, I I think um because we're too diverse.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Too diverse? Freemasonry is too diverse, you think?

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Um and then generally as a human being. I mean, of course. And in Freemasonry, we have that diversity, and then we're dealing with the outside world as well. When I say outside world, outside Freemasonry, just that diversity. So it's our responsibility and our duty to bring that moral values we learn in Freemason and show to them who we are and how mature we are, and how how willing we are to recognize those and accept those differences with them as well. And that would make a point of difference. And they will see, hey, we're not gonna go there and challenge their religion, even though those religions are uh sharing misinformation outside. No, we don't care. This is who we are, but our main challenge to ourselves is to be that person as a Freemason with all those values, and it will shine. They will see ah. I never questioned if we look at that person. I I admire that person. He had that Freemason, Freemasonry values. But again, it's up to that person to work it out. Because again, as a Filipino, it's always our challenge. So that's why you see Filipinos gather Filipino groups only, and then you see other people like connecting, but we're also working it out like hey, we all we need to connect with the locals in here because that's how you're going to understand the culture, and that's how you're going to adapt to fit in and have that sense of belonging as well. But not only that, we also have responsibility to share our culture so that they will get an understanding of us as well. It's always a two-ways communication, and we could not uh if someone offended you, be clear. Apologies, brother. Yeah, um, it might not be an offensive offensive from your end, but it actually offended my culture. Do it nicely as well and be ready there as well to uh to go more detailed because from our culture, this blah blah blah blah. And I just want to because I come here harmoniously, yeah. And that's why I'm this to maintain that brotherhood. Because if you are not going to be upfront as well, and be transp you need to explain to them, they will never understand. They think because that's the cultural lens we're coming in. The understanding based on our belief. Yep. I this is how I understand. If I go to Brother Robin, I'm gonna do this, but I did not realize ah, it's offensive to its uh, but we need to communicate.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

So that's the forms of knowledge. You know what you know, you know what you don't know, but the one that always trips people up is the thing that you don't know that you don't know.

SPEAKER_03 53:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

You don't even know that you could be offending someone, you know, and where you don't know what you don't know. You don't know what you don't know. So, you know, you need to and to have uh to have that understanding. It helps to be honest with people. And I guess when you know the br uh the relief, the relief side of things is would have to be the um the comfort from someone or the reassurance that you're not offending them. So everything's fine. So everything's fine, you're good, everything's good.

SPEAKER_02 53:39

I think uh just one last thing. I forgot this one because I I did mention brotherly love, relief, and truth. We did not delve much on the truth. The truth is not only about You can't handle the truth.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

But it's not but it's not only about honesty and integrity, eh? But it teaches us to seek understanding, yeah, across different cultures, support genuine engagement with diverse views. It's very general, but anyway, and then that our logo, yeah, the square and compass. Symbolize fairness and moral uprightness, right? That's if you always look at the logo, it already reminds you to act without prejudice and then respect everyone. Just respect everyone. That's why we have that logo.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

Square and level. So it's very diverse.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

I thought it was because we controlled the world and we're reptilians. So we're gonna end up with the other. That's in the next episode, that's all the misconceptions that we have. And so you're um you're dead right. Those are very powerful symbols that are um uh that you yeah, they are there in our psyche to draw on. Yep. Um because I think we all you know, we all meet on a level and then we all part on the square.

SPEAKER_02 54:55

That that especially that connectivity. Yeah, diversity, connectivity, and not only about knowing, but understanding the journey, roots, and sense of belonging, and then belonging without assumption of ownership and relating without erasing differences. Keep that one sweet.

SPEAKER_01 55:13

Beautiful. So progress. Key word was progress, and we're at the Lodge Progress at the moment, and um I did some pre-research, and the brief history of this Lodge Progress, number 22, which you wouldn't possibly know, was established in at Southbridge in November in 1876. That's right. As number one nine one six English Constitution. It was renumbered as Lodge of Progress number 22 in 1892 when the New Zealand Constitution was started. The first lodge room was built in 1878 at 13 St. John Street, Southbridge, and it's still in existence and is now used as a residence. The second lodge room was purchased in 1964 at 3 Taramutu Road, probably saying that wrong, Southbridge is converted from a joinery factory to a lodge room. And uh sorry, uh and so yeah, that was interesting. So progress cells on a cellular level, they either go forward or back. As soon as they stay still, it's when we get cancer, it's we get dis-ease. So you always got to be progressing. So you've we've gone from English constitution,

Misconceptions About Faith And Freemasonry

SPEAKER_01 56:40

some of the listeners will know what that means, but we've got English Constitution and then changed over to the New Zealand Constitution, and you are now the worshipful master of Lodge Progress number 22. It's a pleasure, it's an honor to be there.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

Um I think we can already plug here, eh? So plug away. We have our 150th anniversary on the 15th of November. So that's also the installation, and it's we're going back to the history. We're going to Southbridge. And later on, uh, some of the brethren will see our La Pelpin, which is done by our um very talented um brother painter. So even that uh Lapelpin, you'd see a locomotive there.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Locomotive? So interesting.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

It's the train. So it's not only about going to Littleton. It's not about only about Lyttleton history.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Well, yeah, it's Southbridge. I didn't get that far. Well, we'll take you there sometimes. Yeah, it's more um at the end of the year. After Liston. Oh, Liston, okay. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 57:50

So uh yeah. Uh one of our brethren can explain that because I was asking why we have a that's why once you saw those pin, we have a locomotive and a full moon. A full moon. And Brother Dan Painter can perfectly explain that one as well.

SPEAKER_04 58:10

Very, very basically though, the the train represent well it took brethren as well as grain um from Littleton Way all the way up to Southbridge. So that that was a that that's the physical part of it. Um But also a train progresses forward, doesn't it? So when I stood up in Lodge uh a few months ago and uh said to everyone, what does the Lodge of Progress look like visually? Um it was we had to really scratch our heads over it. But that's that's something that I come up with. So not only was it the physical train that was utilized to bring brethren and uh grain between the two the two towns and Christchurch, but it represented progress, moving forward strongly with inertia and momentum, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

Yeah, you just sharing that now. I've just got this idea now, like um again, this is my own opinion, my and my understanding. To be progressive doesn't need to always go forward. Look at the science, the symbols, you've got the train, it needs to go back as well. Yeah? And if you give and there's opportunities everywhere, forward, backward, backward. Progress, but looking backward. Yeah, because everyone thinks about progress, mm-hmm, just go more forward. You need to look at the history as well. That's right. Because that's where your lesson learned. That's right. And you're not but you're not gonna dwell there. That's how you're gonna understand what causes you here, what what's stopping you here, and you need to face that past and then move forward. If you cannot close that past, that's why we face more and avoid less. Yeah? Because if you're if you're not gonna, if you keep avoiding more, you will go nowhere.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Just

Lodge Of Progress History And 150th

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

always keep stressing you. And that is the definition of disease. That's why you can either go forward or back. You just once you're stagnant, once you're still, you're not learning, you're not going forward or back.

unknown 1:00:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:15

See how how the symbols of web delight or progress? There's a lot there.

unknown 1:00:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

And so you must be very proud to be the worshipful master uh of the of the Lodge Progress. Um very proud. And what does that mean? What does it mean to for you? How does it uh what does it mean to you personally to serve as the worshipful master? What is your uh what is how do you do that?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:40

Could you and I'll interject just very quickly. And to add on to what Reuben said, maybe you could talk a little bit about a presentation that you were given at our last meeting. You were given something set up.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

Ah so there's two surprises there. Uh there's one surprise, right? So um we have this silver platter. Is that what you're referring? Yes, right. Yeah, so our right worshipful brother um Neville Patrick. He had the silver platter which was given to him on the hundredth, one hundredth anniversary of the Latch of Progress number twenty-two in nineteen seventy-five.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

And I think he's moving houses and he saw that silver platter again and reminded him, huh. And so he presented at our lodge, which is actually like how many years is that now? 75, 50 years. So it's a golden, so we call it sober platter, but that's a golden anniversary already. And we're it's a privilege. We we it's back now with more deep meaning and sense of pride as well. And we would like to thank their right worship of Bada for that presentation. And uh yeah, it's a very valuable piece of uh it flawed us, didn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:12

I think every breather and hit hit his jaw on the floor. We were like, wow. And the story that that went with it as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:20

Not very often you you will be presented with a silver platter. No, yeah, and I was joking there because I thought it's uh because it was actually my birthday a week ago. Oh, and then I got the silver platter. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:34

So where's the cake, he said?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:36

And then after that silver platter presentation, I was presented with our golden lapel.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:42

So I've got the silver and I've got the gold.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

Silver and gold.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

Yeah, I just was was I was waiting there for a bronze to come out.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:49

So there's no bronze when you come first and second. There's no need.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

But yeah, yep, we're so lucky with that. Um yeah, and we just need to take care of that because if if right rocheable brother um Patrick have been uh look after that very well.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:06

Yes, I think that the other legs are a bit wobbly, weren't they?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:09

They might fifty years old. So it's a long way. We've got another um artifacts, jewels that we can show on our 150th. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:21

Um well, we'll get ready to sort of uh wind this podcast up.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:24

Is there anything else that uh you wanted to mention before we uh I think just going back again about uh us as a Freemason again to grow maturely and then uh keep that word diversity, and then I'm just actually just repeating, I'm just wrapping up everything in here, and then that recognition and respect of the different cultures. We need to keep that one in. No matter what rank we are, I hope everyone will just go back to that very basic we meet in the uh level. Yeah. And and then that that humility should be in place, and then again understand each other, that cultural lens, we need to ask ourselves first if um uh if it's appropriate to do it to other level, but also to the other's person. You just need to be straightforward as well, hey, and that's the communication we need so we can work harmoniously.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:27

So might it be.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

So might it be. What advice would you give? Quickly, what advice would you give any uh young Filipino man in Christ considering joining the craft?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

So before they join the craft.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:40

Well, if you've got a if you know Or they're already in the craft. No, anyone who is thinking, a Filipino who is thinking of maybe they're listening to this podcast, and maybe they um came over from the Philippines and they're recently here and they're listening to our podcast. What advice would you give him?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:57

So uh normally we don't solicit, right? Oh, I

Silver Platter Advice And Closing

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

just mean a general sort of advice. We don't solicit that. If that person is so keen to join Freemasonry, first question there is again, it's like you know, what motivates you to become a Freemason? And I hope your motivation is not based on the misconception that you're gonna benefit a lot from being a Freemason. We'll start with that one, and they believe in God.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

Yeah, right. So your advice to them would be to do a bit of research, do some homework, and know that you are and know what you're joining. Correct. Yeah, just general advice.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:39

Sometimes I re uh yeah, normally ask them to do more research, but also be very careful of where you're doing research because you know actually I just go heart uh heart to heart with that person. Like why would you like to join? Yeah. Just a heads up. You don't gain any whatever material.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

benefit your thinking or you know we're here to grow ourselves uh more maturely yeah have those moral syntax and then just keep reminding us our meeting is actually to keep you reminded of how to have a better life yeah all right well uh thank you worshipful master for coming on today it's been it's been an honor oh thank you so much as well for our very first guest oh yeah history and the making there you go so one of my questions where would you like to leave your uh Masonic uh what would you like to leave is your uh your uh lineage and you can now look back 150 years from now and say I did the first episode of the Masonic mic that changed Freemason.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:53

Brethren thank you really for the opportunity and I really enjoyed our conversation so I hope uh those people listening or brethren listening will get some valuable insights uh of the discussions we had.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

Thank you Wishable Master thank you see you next time