More Than One Way to Do the Work

How can someone sing in front of 20,000 people… yet still find reading from a page one of his biggest fears?

In this episode of The Masonic Mic, we sit down with Bro. Dean “Deano” Johnstone — artist, signwriter, performer, film-industry craftsman and Freemason — for a conversation about creativity, confidence, perseverance and finding your own place within the Craft.

From working on major film productions and singing in Las Vegas, to restoring lodge spaces, creating Masonic art and confronting the parts of Freemasonry that don’t come quite so naturally, Deano’s story is a reminder that contribution doesn’t have to look the same for everyone.

We talk about the loss of a close friend who helped push him toward following his dreams, what it really means to call yourself an artist, the symbols you begin to notice once you learn how to look, and whether Freemasonry has changed the man behind all of it.

Funny, thoughtful and occasionally unexpected — this is a conversation about discovering what you can bring to the work, rather than worrying about whether you fit the mould.

Masonic Frequency on Frequency.

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Transcript

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Singing Confidence Reading Fear

SPEAKER_01 0:08

It's been one of my probably my biggest fears to read off a page, so it's funny because I sing. And I can sing in front of twenty thousand people and it doesn't affect me.

SPEAKER_05 0:21

It absolutely might boggles my mind the fact that you can stand up in front of thousands of people, but you find it difficult to speak words that you're reading in front of a group of it could be harder.

Welcome And Introducing Dean Johnson

SPEAKER_05 0:52

Greetings and welcome to the Masonic Mic. How are you going there, brother Dan?

SPEAKER_02 0:57

I'm good, man, and how are you?

SPEAKER_05 0:58

I'm very good, and I'm very excited because today we've decided to bring in a third wheel. Third wheel. Is that how it's anyway? A third host, Worshipful Brother Tony Fellon. He was one of our guests previously, and we're excited to have him on as another voice on the mic. So greetings, Worshipful Brother Tony.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Thank you very much. I'm glad I'm not a Robin Reliant fan with the three wheels, but an actual cannon on the fourth wheel. So that's good.

SPEAKER_05 1:26

And so today, though, we are very excited to have on our show Brother Dean Johnson. Good to make him mate. Nice to be here. Thank you very much for uh for coming on. We uh we look forward to having a chat with you about your Freemasonic and other other stories that you've got to impart.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Roger.

Joining Shirley Lodge From A Phone Number

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Roger that.

SPEAKER_05 1:44

So you're a Freemason. How did you become a Freemason?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Cool question. Funny enough, I so I went to school at Shuly Boys and I was driving around and I saw a building with the logo on it. Well when I say logo, the square compass.

SPEAKER_05 2:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

And I've always been intrigued. My father was a magnificent man, and one of his best mates was a Freemason and he used to trot off to these meetings and and if he wasn't doing that, he's having a ginatonic with Dad. So I was always intrigued by where he went and what he did and he was a he was a he was a nice man, good a good man. And yeah, so I think that was that's probably s the start of it. And then uh artistically and historically I've always been very intrigued with the with this specific uh group of men. And I'm even more intrigued about the their symbols and and historical strength of them.

SPEAKER_05 2:51

Fascinating. And so was your father's friend one who initiated you or got you.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

No, mate, no, he wasn't. No, no. He um sadly he died of you know, he had that bad of skin eating, that flesh-eating disease that went through about you know, and it's not it's not I know it's not right, but that's I was in Australia racing cars and I remember getting a phone call and he had got it in his stomach and he uh killed him in two days. Oh gosh. So yeah, I I never really got to talk to him about it. It's funny, his son, you know, it's when I say funny, some people are interested in it, and some people couldn't give a fat rats, and his his own son didn't even interest him, you know, and he I know that N was uh quite high up in it. So I don't know how long I've been in it, probably eight years or something, uh seven, maybe six, seven years. I I just always wanted to I was intrigued by it. So I went to Shirley, I found a phone number on the wall.

SPEAKER_05 3:54

Oh really?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

And I rang it.

SPEAKER_05 3:55

Oh, so you just walked on up to the local lodge. I did it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Really?

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Not even through the internet, you literally saw a number and rang it. Correct. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Can you remember who was on the other end? I s I'm gonna say Michael Wooding.

SPEAKER_05 4:10

Oh wow, good.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Okay, because Michael and I met at that little coffee shop just over the road from where we are.

SPEAKER_05 4:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

And I oh I know who else was there. Dennis. Dennis is gone. Dennis Dennis was a great he's an old guy, but he was the he was the type that I wanted to hang with if it was to be in a group of men. He'd he was well held, he had a couple of sports cars, he he had there's a spark in his eye, you know, there's that little bit of cheekiness, yeah, I'll say, in his eye. And then that really I like that because you know, some of the people we meet, everyone's I'm gonna just finish with this, everyone's different. There's some special ones and some even more special ones. So yeah. It's just like any group, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 4:59

So eight years. So you've been a Freemason for eight years, and you were initiated into the same lodge that you found the phone number on. Correct. They have on Shirley Lodge, which I'm a member of.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Well, I kind of like the fact that it was I'm a Shirley Boys Boy. Yep. It was a Shirley Lodge.

SPEAKER_05 5:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

It was in the area. Yep. Everything sort of seemed to work that way. So I just went on that lead.

SPEAKER_05 5:18

And so you've been there for

Lodge Roles Without Long Reading

SPEAKER_05 5:20

eight years. What role are you currently doing?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

I'm Tyler. At the moment, I'm Tyler. Yep. Which is quite nice. You know, the guys moved me around because they know that my inability to retain some of those charters and some of those things isn't flash. That's not my that's not my gift, certainly isn't. But, you know, they've all that they've looked after me. Yeah. I'll say that. So they move me around into positions that I can still have something to give, but you know, I'm not reading out pages and pages of of text because it's just that is just for some reason I I'm there's an inability there, and I've always, you know, from day one I've always had it. Not even to do with masonry, just as a boy. Um and it's and it's sadly it's affected. You know, I always wanted to be in the movies when I was young, and I was I was one of those guys, and I was an artist, and I well, as arty, I wasn't an artist, you have to earn that, but I was certainly arty. My father was a taxidermist, so I grew up in a world where um I saw things brought back to life. I suppose I'll put it that way. He could, he could, there would be something dead and he would build it in a way that it looked alive again. So that was for me, that's the art of taxidermy. Yeah. And for my artwork, it's I when I'm painting, I think I'm getting a slightly more dahly-esque now, but I I do like that realism in it as well, so it's a bit of a play. Yeah,

Grief Family And Why Singing Heals

SPEAKER_01 6:43

but I did find out that mentally talking and reading is a lot different from singing. So some people you know, my mother's in a dementia ward. This is these are the just the truths, this is just life. But and these dementia wards they can hardly talk to you, but you'll put a song on from the 40s and they know every word to it. Yeah, yes. So it wasn't that powerful stuff.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

It is.

unknown 7:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

So for me, to sing a song is I lost a brother. I lost my brother, I he died in my arms at twenty five years old. We were both into karate, we'd done karate all our lives, and he was taken with cancer, and we couldn't we couldn't bring him back. So that was a massive effect on me. So yeah, there's multiple reasons. I'm not looking for any answers through masonry. I'll find those myself, but I certainly do like it and I'm intrigued by it. And it's something that, you know, as we all know, because we've all lived different lives, you can be a hundred percent on it, or you can just back off and leave it for a year, or you know, it's it's your own, it's your own path.

SPEAKER_05 7:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Going forward story, I find reading incredibly hard and stupidly hard. Stupid just stupidly hard for me. I'm sweating, my eyesight goes, the page starts moving. And even if I'm wearing glasses, it's just it's a massive, it really affects me. So the singing thing, I started the reason I started singing is because it made me feel good after Scott died. It was the only thing that made me feel good. So I would sing, and I and singing's now got me. I've sung in Las Vegas and LA and Mexico and weirdly I just I love it.

SPEAKER_05 8:18

Those are actually countries, though, not little bars around dotted around Christchurch. You're literally talking about in other countries over in overseas.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Wow. Two years ago I sung with a guy called Big Elvis in in a in a casino called the Hara. I stay in the Flamingo, which is about one casino away. It's a good position on the strip, it's about the middle. So and he he was a good s he's a good singer. His name's Pete, but he's about 500,000 kgs. And but he can sing. He can he can sing. Yeah but him and I were singing, we sung some big yeah, he he let me on, he called me Kiwi, and um I fulfilled one of those bucket list things and sang in Vegas. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah, definitely, mate. 100%. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it still gets me. Of course, but uh it's it life, life's um, you know, we were this three-boy, you know, mum and dad and three boys family, just a good Kiwi family, and then this stuff came and just, you know, it killed dad within 14 months after Scott did it killed dad, so you know, it just showed me that you know that um you've got it you've gotta follow those dreams.

SPEAKER_05 9:29

So was your father a Freemason?

SPEAKER_01 9:31

No, mate, no, he wasn't. What about your brothers? No, no one.

SPEAKER_05 9:33

So no family connection at all? So it's yourself. Yeah. Okay.

unknown 9:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

You talk to them about it? Or they obviously know you are.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Uh no, I don't even know. Doesn't come up in a conversation.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

Um, I think you you I'm picking some of the things you've just said there. It's something I think we we hear a lot that people need to give charges, and that's how they give back and in and reading, and and and I disagree with that. And the the guys know that I'm can get a bit on my soapbox a bit, but I'll keep this brief. I think people

Giving Back Through Masonic Artwork

SPEAKER_03 10:07

can give back in different ways and can contribute to a lodge. And one of the things I know that you do quite well, which you've already talked about, and I'm looking for our listeners will know we are filming this in the Ferrymade building, and on the wall is a bit of a raggedy portrait of William Donald, who is the a superb Freemason. And where I'm going with this is that you graciously did a free of charge, I believe, did a a re a reproduction of a copy we had in our Royal Arch.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Um, and you've also done some artwork for the refractory in in Shirley.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

And I think that's just sending out to the listeners that that's a service to Freemasonry that I think you've done, and it adds to beautify and adorning our orders. Well done. It's got to type back to the ritual some way. But but I do think that's something it's yeah. Have you done much more um artistry or as much of masonry worked into your art, your art practice as you've become a mason? Great question.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah, that's a good question. No, not not really, Tone. I I kind of leave you know, it's a little bit like having the suitcase on you open it and do it, and then you shut it again. That's how I sort of it's funny, I the the the the masonry thing I keep for the times when I'm via at the lodge. And then otherwise it really doesn't come up. I just I just quietly and I might see, you know, one of you guys or something around and and we have a yarn about something quickly, but that's that's it. I don't I don't think my mother knows she hardly knows my name, but I think uh I think it's just something I keep to myself really until I'm in that company of guys that wear suits on Sunday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

So have you noticed a lot of artwork emulating some of the Masonic stuff?

SPEAKER_01 12:01

And you sort of looked at him going, I wonder if that's that's a different question. That's a big question. So that's a funny one. You know, the kids now they on Easter they hide the Easter eggs, but I don't know what it's called, um egg hunt or whatever the hell it is, right? And I think that the more you know, the more you see.

unknown 12:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

And I am, you know, Da Vinci was flit out putting stuff in his paintings. You know, I love watching that Gaia.

SPEAKER_05 12:27

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Yeah, I'm quite a big fan of that, and I'm I'm certainly a big fan of the Egyptian side of architecture and art and everything else.

unknown 12:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

So yes, mate, I the the more I do, it's my own private, you know, it's it's like a private study, one that you're not asked to do, but I certainly am seeing a lot more of that stuff in the older pieces of art that I might study for something.

SPEAKER_05 12:53

Yeah, I mean I always see a checkered floor, and you always wonder, you know, is that yeah. So yeah, and I just I just wonder because for our listeners, you're actually you're you're an artist, aren't you? I mean, well, you you studied art.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

You you you have Yeah, well I I started. I started it's funny actually. I remember my father opening the I don't know about you guys, but we used to get a little brown envelope that had the school cert answers in it. And I remember my father sitting me on his chair. He's I sat in his chair and he sat on the on the arm, which was unusual because normally he was sitting in it, and I was more the I was I was pouring him a whiskey. But he'd only have two, but you could run your car on it for like a week. I remember getting my school cert results and they had failed me on art. And I was the top student at the high school shooter boys, and I got 48%. And the first thing he said when he opened the envelope said, You failed art, Dino. And I couldn't believe that because not getting that meant that I had to go for university entrance again, and that prevented me from getting a TV apprenticeship called a TVA scheme.

SPEAKER_05 14:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

So just that that moment alone started affecting me artistically. Art has certainly not been given to me. And I don't know if that makes you a better artist, because I don't know what a better artist is, but it it makes me more driven. So there's always been a fight, there's an eternal fight there with me and and whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

And maybe I shouldn't have been, maybe I should have been a gardener or something, but I always wanted to be an artist, so I you you said before that being called an artist is burned. Yeah, without doubt. Was there a point that you realize yes, I am an artist? And uh because you know, it's obviously not purely academic. No. Um otherwise you would have been put off by that 48%. But clearly you've built a career.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

I have, mate, thanks. Yeah. I art is not given. Arts, you know, arts, you set out a plan. You don't just it doesn't come out the end of it, you know, when I'm doing a demonstration or something and I might be airbrushing something or or painting something, and there'll be guys there and they'll say, Oh, you know, what sort of airbrush have you got? And I said, Oh, I I buy the really expensive ones when you push the button, the art comes straight out the end of it. Um prepackaged. Yeah. Yeah. But they honestly they look at the I've had people look at the gear that I'm using and go out and buy it. Well, it doesn't matter if you're using that or you've cut the end of your finger. If you're if you're artistic, you can still do it. And it's not it's not the tools. Um it's a little bit it's not unlike masonry in in a lot of ways. It's not the tools, it's the person.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

You've also helped do some of some some columns inside in the lodge room in Shirley, which are pretty sizable things.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Um, that was an interesting experience. I mean, because you know, there's there's theorems on size and length and depth and all sorts of stuff. You know, there's certain rules that you have to follow with the hundred, you know, the rows of hundreds and and that sort of stuff. So they have to be a hundred. You have to count them, and you know, there's all those sort of stuff that I liked, I I quite like that. It challenged me. You know, diameter verse, you know, I calculated how big your your your things were you're putting on. And then because I I do love to spray stuff, you know, with metallics and all that sort of jazz. So I wanted them looking, you know, very gold.

unknown 16:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

No, they were fun. They were they were fun to do. I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_05 16:16

So you've contributed quite a lot, maybe not the charges that you talk of. But that's fine. You have contributed a lot, the pillars and the artworks, the restoration.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Getting those, getting those buddy honours boards up on the wall.

SPEAKER_05 16:31

Oh, yeah, and the honours boards, that's right. You've got those, you had to redo those, I think it was in gold.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yeah. Yeah. Some of them, some of the some of them are 23 karat gold. Wow. Some of the real ones.

SPEAKER_05 16:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Sorry, right? And then obviously, even that's historic because if you look at the letter sto if you look at the letter styles on them, you notice that they'll change. It's because the old sign has stopped or retired and the new one's taken over. But now if you look at the new ones, they're all computer cut and they're all exactly the same, which and they don't shine. Gold emits light or it bounces light beautifully, where just dirty old metallic gold vinyl does not. So that's you know, you can you can even see them, guys, when you look at them, they you know, the gold is is incredible. It it glows.

SPEAKER_05 17:16

So that's a little detail that you can see being having done in your trade of as an artist. What would you call it? They were that's signage. Signage. Sign writing. Yeah, right. So you you're a a signwriter as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Well I'm a qualified signwriter, that's how I started, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:30

Right. So that's how you started your journey as an IK, right.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

And then I did tw I had a company for 28 years. And I got up to 15 staff, and it was more like a um uh kindergarten than a uh I I found myself sitting at a desk, you know, and I'd be sorting your problem out with his problem, and and I just thought, you know, this is not what I did this for.

From Signwriting To King Kong Oscar

SPEAKER_03 17:50

It's not for me.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

No, so I I sh I shut it. I and JBFX finished, which stands for John Stone Brothers Special Effects. And we were always special effectsy, you know, man caves, theatre rooms, you know. We did the odd movie for Peter Jackson, which was very cool. Hang on. Enjoyed that and turned 40 doing a movie for a guy called Roland Emirates who does all yeah, Independence Day and Day After Tomorrow we did.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Because of my taxidermy background, I was building wobbly mammoth skeletons in Wanaka in the ski fields for that movie, which was cool.

SPEAKER_05 18:23

So hang on a minute.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

That was far too brief for me.

SPEAKER_05 18:26

That was a little bit brief. Can can we start from the beginning? A little a little a few projects for I think there was a one name there that stands out was Peter Jackson. Sir? Is it Sir Sir Peter Jackson? So sorry. Oh, sorry. So Sir Peter Jackson.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Weirdly. Yeah, so when I was about twelve, mum bought me a Minolta movie camera from a second hand dealer down Manchester Street, which was I think it was called Nuttles or something, it was called. So I got a for my for Christmas. My mother was a magnificent woman and and she was Mrs. Christmas, so every every year she would work towards buying presents for the boys, but they were specific. My older brother was an engine builder, and my younger brother was a builder, and the middle one was a crazy artist. I got a Minolta Super 8 movie camera, mind-boggled by Empire Strikes back. Between intermediate and high school, I was making my own movies, and then I competed against Jackson, was one of the guys I competed against in the spot-on movie competition. Do you remember spot on? Yeah, I do. Yeah, so I competed against Pete in the movie competitions, and I I didn't I didn't get anywhere. I think he would have won it. I think he won it a couple of times, but my goal was to work in the movies as an artist. Took me 36 years to get there, but because I'm a stubborn tourist, I I never stopped trying.

SPEAKER_05 19:44

And so you got there, so you got to win.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

And directly I you know, it's funny, you'd you meet someone that knows someone that might get you in, and then I went from being a guy that was coming off the floor to being chief sign writer for King Kong. I got a credit. 126 of us won an Oscar. So it was kind of cool. It was cool to be in that. It's funny though, that the the the movie making the movie or being in it was interesting. Uh, it was full of a lot of people that didn't want this new shiny guy taking their job. So it was that was a that was certainly I won't go too deep into that, but that was certainly a that was a learning curve too. People can be pretty special out there, you know. I I thought it would be wonderland. I thought it'd be amazing, you know, coming along as an artist and you know I w I built the boat with a f some guys for King Kong because it wasn't a real one. They had a real one, but they weren't allowed out the because the actors weren't allowed on it, so we had to build one and then put big water solution down onto it so it looked like you're you know getting splashed by water and stuff. So obviously you're doing this all in Wellington, didn't you? All in Wellington, lived in Wellington, yeah. Left my business, left, left the guys running it, and I lived in Wellington for I don't know, six months. And then I left and came back after Christmas and did the New York sets, New York about 1933. Wow. So it was cool. There was there was some cool and I'm you know, and was it good fun? It was interesting. It was it's not like what I do now, you know, being the designer is cool. Getting given stuff by people who don't really know what they're giving you. They're just, you know, they're the they're they're a runner. And they might give you a a layout on a bit of an A4 sheet or something. And and some stuff I I clashed a bit because as a signee and have been to New York, I said, well, this isn't the way this letter would have been written. This is not the font and the typeface that and the way this it's not it's it wasn't written like that. So I'd have a few arguments, but we got there in the end. We got there in the end.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

So I think you might have just slipped in there that you've actually won an Oscar. Oh, that that that sounds yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

It's I think about 126 of us from the art department, I think that they they won an Oscar for I think it was for artwork or something, but it it yeah, there was.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

So I'll I'll I'll hold my hand up. We win an Oscar. Yeah, I think is what you no that that's fantastic. I'm learning so much about you that I didn't know in this this podcast. So I think we're probably just just scratching on the top layer at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Enjoying

How To Support The Show

SPEAKER_00 22:25

the Masonic Mike? Support the show by following us, sharing the episode, and joining our growing Facebook community. Got a question, a guest suggestion, or something you'd like us to discuss? Send us an email to themasonic mic.nz or use the fan mail button on our website. We'd love to hear from you. Now, back to the conversation.

SPEAKER_05 22:52

So

Visiting Massive Lodges In Las Vegas

SPEAKER_05 22:53

you you talk about you talk about Vegas. Did you ever manage to visit any lodges when you were in uh in Vegas or yes, I did. You did.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

I I can't tell you the number because I didn't bring that with me, which is bad. But yeah, I went to a big lodge. God bless America. Everything's bigger, but it was it was big. The building would have been Kmart size, three or four libraries. How many personnel are you talking about? Uh I think on a big night you might have 1,500 people there. No way. Sort of gig. Yeah, no, serious. The lodges were big. They were big. We well, I I went to a meeting, which was cool. I went first of all, I went to a coffee meeting, which is so they have they do this coffee gig and it's big. And they had they had 16 chefs working to give you an idea of the room. And they were they were lovely. They they would they were cool. The Vegas would you know they were slightly relaxed. And then obviously I went to the a Hawaiian one, and they I didn't I walked straight into it, I didn't realise, but they're predominantly ex-military. Oh, probably not so my god, they were they were to business. So they didn't have their genuine. I went there sort of casual thinking that you know I'm gonna see Magnum PI and walk in with a dolphin or something. And oh no, it couldn't have been more stringent. Yeah, it's a different order. Yeah, they were to business. Wow. But that was cool to see too. That was very that was a so that was a they have their reflectory before they go in.

SPEAKER_05 24:25

Oh right. So they all have food, they're dinner, and then they go and do their business.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

They have a big notch up and then they and then they go in. Uh that was a way to get to know people before.

SPEAKER_05 24:33

Was that for both of them? So the you were in Las Vegas?

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Uh the Vegas one was different. The Vegas one was it, I went to a coffee morning and then I was invited back, I think, that night. But yeah, that was big that was a you know, we're talking about, you know, like a high school gymnasium sort of size lodge room. But you know, guys, the same predominantly the same stuff happens. Slightly different, but you know, the same stuff happens. So you kind of could find yourself and then they make you stand in the middle and talk. How do you feel? I didn't I was I was okay, but I was a bit because it because it was very formal, that puts a it makes it a little bit it makes it a little bit more tense, you know? Whereas if I could just swagger on there and sing them a song, it probably wouldn't have been so bad. But anyway, it was it was okay, it was just very my fault. I just I thought the Hawaiian one would be far more sort of laid back. Yeah, no, no, no. All mostly ex-military boys and uh to business.

SPEAKER_05 25:35

Yeah, because it's scary enough going to a lodge in your own country by yourself if you're visiting, let alone going overseas and going into a different constitution, a different jurisdiction, and then having to stand up and talk and say hi, I give you, you know, I give you fraternal greetings from the other side of the pond. That would have been it would have been interesting.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Yeah. And they were they were they were they were bloody good the way they treated me. Actually, it was it was cool. It was cool. And then they, you know, they give you a pin and I thought, yeah, after the fact it was it was good.

SPEAKER_05 26:05

Right. So

Private Study Symbols And The Future

SPEAKER_05 26:06

what does the future hold for you with regards to your Masonic work then?

SPEAKER_01 26:11

I've got a I think if it was a cool to goal, I think my goal would be I'm happy just to stick to the lodge that I'm in.

SPEAKER_05 26:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Obviously, we've got a few other things that we do which I've I I haven't been able to get there because I've been away or whatever. But I'm just happy doing my own little private study on you know the artistic values of of Freemasonry, some of that sort of stuff, learning the symbols a wee bit more and you know how they've been, you know, some of that stuff in artwork is mind-boggling. There's such an in I mean great word for masonry, but there's such an intertwining of so many things, it's it's mind-boggling. And and that's you know, that's a life study in its own right, just that.

SPEAKER_05 26:59

I'm glad you mentioned that, because it is, you know, you you can you can not attend lodge but still be a you know be a Freemason. You can still have your daily, your daily Masonic um education, you don't have to have that necessarily in the lodge. I was aware of your of your background in art, and I think that was the reason why for our listeners, why you were talking about other side projects, which is well, the SRIA, which is the rosecution side of Freemasonry, which I thought would really help kindle the artist within you. Yeah, you know, that's very deep, very deep symbology with with with different type of symbolism and artworks. And yeah, we've I I personally brought you into that. I thought it would be a really good fit. And yeah, I I'm glad that you have.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Yeah, I get it, mate. I I think, you know, I I enjoyed the guys there. I enjoyed that I think they're a little bit more open to discussing stuff. And you can have it, you can have it. That's what I've enjoyed about being uh with those guys. The hardest thing for me is that I'm I'm away a lot. And and you know, they only meet four times a year and that sort of jazz, which makes it it's just you know, the timing this year's, you know, as an artist it's been pretty average the last five or so years, but now you know I'm the busiest I've been in 20 years. So I've really got to I've really got to when it's there, you know, take it to own a business, I've got to go for it. So and it and as being an artist, I mean it sounds all fairy tale, but being what I do what I do, painting pictures and and designing and you know, it doesn't matter if it's five o'clock in the afternoon or five o'clock in the morning. It's if if you're doing it, you're doing it. And some things turn up funny. I I you know if I'm thinking of something and I want to design it, I usually design it through the night when I'm asleep. I don't know how I do it, but that's what how it goes. Wow. Really?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

You sleep on it and you honestly you dream it or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Yeah, I can do that. And I can wa and I can wake up if I want to wake up at five o'clock. I wake up at five o'clock. And I don't know how I do that, but that's that's what happens. So I when I'm designing stuff, I take it, I take it to bed with me and I build it through the night. The cool thing about being someone who creates and invents stuff is that and you'll do it till the you stop breathing. You never, you don't you know this retirement thing, I'm 60 years old, and I uh retirement isn't there's there's no such word and and it won't be in my world. It'll just be what it is. I'll just keep going. Keep going. So yeah, I have got I've got a wee bit too many projects actually at the moment because I moved into this house about a year ago and I've been playing with the house, you know, like it's got a pool, and I wanted to make it, you know, like this Hawaiian sort of a set. But you know, now we some dudes turned up and wants to buy the two I've got together, so we'll see what that happens. I don't really feel like theming another room, but that may happen. We'll see. But the projects, yeah, I've got a million of them. Nice. Which is good. So good. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, I've never I've never been bored in my life. Never ever been bored. It's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Have you

Advice For Young Kiwi Artists

SPEAKER_02 30:18

got any advice for some young Kiwis who are artists, whether they're a filmmaker or a storyteller, how to continue doing what they're doing and how to keep that motivation and is there is is there anything that you do that keeps you motivated? You say you never get bored and you go to sleep with these ideas. Is that essentially it?

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Or no. No, I mean, you know, I'm a human being. I still get pissed off about things. We still run out of money every now and again. We still have to eat two-dollar noodles. You have to come to a realization that you're on this planet with everyone else doing their thing. And the one that keeps trying will eventually maybe get there, but have a bloody good time on that journey anyway. No matter whether they get the big success or they don't, it's been the and I know you've we've all heard and you go, oh whatever, but it is the journey. And if you want to be in the art journey, then be in it. But don't expect to be a superhero straight away. It's like my kids, you know. I've got a 21-year-old on a super yacht in Singapore, I've got another one today doing scuba diving certificate in Yapoon in Australia, and they all think they're gonna be captaining the boat in about three weeks. Well, sadly, that's not the way the world works. So I would say, Dan, that it's the journey is so much more important than the end result, because the end result is the collection of journeys you've done. Right? So when you when you talk about people dying, you talk about the start date and you talk about the end date. Yeah, they're not that important, it's the stuff that's gone in the middle. It's a wee stroke that's gone in the middle. That's their life. So it's the journey, is the the most important thing. Whether you be an engine mechanic, university, artist, whatever. If that's your gig, then the journey should be, you know, it's not always gonna be beautiful. But the funny thing is some of the stuff that isn't beautiful has been some of the best teacher. That's the as an older guy now, that's you know, I'm 60. I don't think I'm 60, I think I'm Peter Pan, but you know, it it blows me away to say that you're 60. I mean, it's a long way away from 50. 50's nothing. You just gotta enjoy it. You know, it's not always fun. You know, I told you some stories about family and life and death, and that just happens. Yeah none of us get out alive. Yep. Apart from Reuben.

SPEAKER_05 32:49

Yep. So would any of the teachings from Freemasonry have they helped you in the art world? Has it

How Freemasonry Changes Daily Choices

SPEAKER_05 32:56

helped you in your everyday life?

SPEAKER_01 32:58

I think Freemasonry, I'll talk about the the betterment of ourselves, and I think that's something that once you start hearing it and and living it away, but it never lets go of you, it's always on your shoulder. So if a predicament may arise where you could either lose your call or help that person, because of now what I've been through, you would go for the second one.

SPEAKER_05 33:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Uh so I'm not going to make out that Freemasonry is this big flash in the pan thing that changed me completely. It hasn't. But what it has done is it's made me more aware of how I live my everyday life, I suppose. Not when I say everyday life, it's it's just there. So if an uh if and it's and it's there under the surface, if something arises and I've got an opportunity to do either either, because I've got this, you know, we're we're we we talk about you know being a better person, yeah, then that kicks in. So that's how I would answer that, mate. Yeah. All right. So has it affected me? Yeah, it has. There's there's definitely no doubt about it. It's affected me on my on my thought pattern of choice when it comes to something good or something bad.

SPEAKER_05 34:20

The bit of mythology behind when you join Freemasonry, you all of a sudden you've got the gates to the kingdom and that, but it's actually the the work then has to happen and it's a very slow, gradual process.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Yeah, I think we're sorry, Dan, I think we've all seen that in and you know, in any lodge that you go to, you'll get a high flyer that'll join. And he might get his he might get his Master's Mason and then he semi-consciously thinks that he's gonna get the whole universe is gonna change, right? It it's it doesn't work like that. Yeah. And and I think, you know, I've sometimes, you know, when I when I first joined and I'd been in it for a year or so, I was sort of, is this is this all there is? Is this hang out with a whole lot of old guys and and then you do reflect and it's the same stories you heard last month and is this all it is? But and then because I'm this Tory and guy that's stubborn, I thought, sure, no, I'm I'm I'm missing something here. Right? There's something right in front of me. And the and the plain truth of it is the fact that it is plain is some of the reason to go. The fact that it is, oh, I've got to go to that tonight. Well, the and you make the effort to go, the making the effort is the secret learning that you don't even know you're doing.

SPEAKER_05 35:42

It reminds me of the difference between a white belt and a black belt is that the black belt doesn't stop going. You know? Yeah, it's the same thing. Yeah, oh, I've got to go to that, and you go through it, and then at the end of the journey, well, at the end of like eight, ten, twenty years, you're like, oh yeah, it's all of those little meetings that has led me to being something different than when I first started. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Great. People look at people look people look for answers and they're right in front of you. The fact that the answer is the answer is the answer is the fact that you're doing it without you just do it. And you know, that's the secret answer. That's a secret, that's some of the secret answers to life. But just, you know, we we we might be doing we might be talking about other stuff, and but that's I think, you know, there's there's there's a power there that you just don't re if if you go looking for it, it's it's not it it doesn't show itself. It's it's it shows its show itself through longevity and and and in due course. It's not, you know, both of us have done martial arts for quite a bit of for a long time. And as you said, mate, you know, you never leave the floor. There's a wee inside into stuff, guys. It's good. Yeah. So it's it's a yeah, I'm intrigued by I'm intrigued by this stuff. And it's not a I don't see it as bad or good or anything else. There's I don't I don't even I don't even let those voices come into it because I don't I don't but that's just that's just your own brain running away from you. It's very simple some of the stuff in front of us. It's so simple some of it that it's fantastically technical. But until you stop, breathe, and have a look at it openly, you won't ever understand it proper. It it tells you itself.

The Elvis Moment That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_01 37:37

There's a purity about it when you're singing. I'm not even there, I'm not even in the room. It's I can't even explain it.

SPEAKER_05 37:42

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

It's a real euphoria. And it's it's just something I've been doing for 30 years, and I I hate you know, I might be embarrassingly bad, but it makes me feel good, so it only lasts for three and a half minutes, so yeah. But it's cool fun. Yeah. And you come off when you're shaking, and if you've been drinking all day, you come off when you're sober, and you are sober. I remember I sang at one place and it was I was right up the back, and I'd well, you know, I have a I have a drink every now and again. I'm a human. And I'd been there, it was a hot day, it was 47 degrees outside. And I'd I was inside having a few shubits, and then at nine o'clock, that's 12 hours. So at nine o'clock, a guy came on doing an Elvis impersonation. He looked like Elvis, it was fantastic. But his singing, hmm, I'd give him about a good 60% out of a hundred. He was cool, but you know, like I said, I want to hear someone who can nail Elvis. And he says, Is there anyone out there that would like to sing an Elvis song? And I thought, well, I'm in ripped jeans, I've got a Fox Motocross t-shirt on. It's 47 degrees outside, not one of these people seated. And there would have been 2,000 people seated. Massive room. Way down the end. I was way up the back. Hand on heart, I got up and walked across the front of these people down the sidewall onto the stage where he was, and I was sober. I was 100% sober. And I remember he pulled me up on stage and he said, What do you want to sing? I said, I want to sing American Trilogy, which is a big Vegas Elvis song, big gospel song. As soon as it started, I could feel the beads of sweat running down my bang. Oh man. Yeah. And with my hears I must be able to and I started singing and I just went shh. Nothing. Not a pin drop. Even the people playing the games stopped. So it was a fairly big moment for me. And that changed my life, I think. I just from that moment on, I was, I was, I just wanted to do it. You just it's like a drug. You can see why they do it. You can see why they have concerts. Because the the power from the people goes through you. It's an incredible feeling.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 39:48

Incredible. It blows my mind.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:51

The fact that you say that you just stood up in front of 2,000 odd people and you find it difficult to stand in front of a dozen. I can't do it in front of the story.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

I assume the end of that story is that you finished singing and everyone was I came back to my t I came back to my table.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

There was a guy dressed in a suit there where I'd been sitting with this other guy, and he said, you know, if you if you do that while you're here, you stay here for nothing and all your drinks free.

SPEAKER_05 40:20

You're joking.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

That's what happens in America. And that this and then I sung at MGM, you know, two or three years ago. When I came back to my table, my table was full of grog, all new, jugs of beer. Just that's how they think. The yanks are different, you know. They think you can learn to sing. Amazing. And I'm not that I'm not that flash, but I I love it.

SPEAKER_05 40:39

Yeah. Hey, look,

Final Thoughts And Staying Square

SPEAKER_05 40:41

it was an absolute pleasure having you on uh this podcast. Um I hope our listeners have learned a lot. I've learned a lot, and it was a wonderful, wonderful chat. Thank you very much for thanks for popping along, Dino. No problem, guys.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

It's my pleasure.

SPEAKER_05 40:55

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

My pleasure. I hope I could, you know, whatever. But it's just you know, that's my story. It's a great story. Thanks, boys. Thank you. Thank you. Awesome.

SPEAKER_07 41:08

Funny thing about Dino, he can sing in front of 20,000 people, build things for Peter Jackson, create art, restore a lodge, and a page of ritual can still make him sweat. Perhaps that's the point. Freemasonry doesn't ask us all to be good at the same things. It asks us to discover what we can bring to the work and then keep bringing it. Some men build with stone, some with words, some with paint. And some, apparently, end up singing in Vegas. Not bad, Dino. Not bad at all.

SPEAKER_06 41:52

Thanks for listening to the Masonic mic. The views expressed by our hosts and guests are their own and don't necessarily reflect those of Grand Lodge or any affiliated body. Before you go, be sure to download the Masonica app to stay connected and support the show for more Masonic resources, blogs, and podcasts. Remember to subscribe, like and share, and until next time, stay square.