Episode 19: Foamfluencer Tea Party

In this week's episode of Off the Rails with Rowdy and Bethan, we have a special guest! Off the Rails very first guest - Hyce! 

In this episode we talk: 

1.) Who the heck is Hyce? 
2.) SWOT Analysis of the Industry...
3.) How the internet internets and the impacts on our goofy little niche of the railroad world and our lives. 
5.) In the News! 

Got a question or topic you want us to cover? Send it our way—we'd love to hear from you.

So grab your coffee (or whatever is getting you through the day), crank up the phonograph, and let's go Off the Rails.

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Thanks to Huffman Machining Solutions is proud to sponsor this Off the Rails podcast.  See how we can help with your next challenge at huggmanmachining.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Off the Rails, the podcast where steam locomotives meet modern magnets. Joint executive director of the Mount Rainier Sonic Railroad, Beth and Maher, and Rowdy Pearce, superintendent, professional cat herder, and occasional out a coach. Together they pull back the curtain on the wild, weird, and often hilarious world of tourist steam railroads. You'll get a front row speak to the ins and outs of this truly unique business. So grab your ticket, hold on to your sense of humor, and join us for a ride into the unpredictable world of steam. This is Off the Rail.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Oh God, shock made that thing. Okay. Welcome to Off the Rails with Rowdy, Bethon, and who the hell are you?

SPEAKER_05 0:45

Uh Mark, actually, but uh Heist. Yeah, that one. Heist. Yes. Uh the bird doesn't work. You're not serving very well. She's supposed to push the button on the back. Why, Gorb? Why? Okay, we're gonna cut.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Welcome to Off the Rails with Rowdy Bethany. Who the hell are you? Mark, but actually Heist on the internet.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Alright, so this is our first off the rails podcast with a guest. We actually have two guests because by popular demand, the people have requested another Mount Rainier Scenic Brawl Riddete Tea Party edition. So Yeah. Mine's empty. Wygor? Um, are you Yor or Ivan?

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Uh it depends on the day. He's in it. He said he went with Ivan.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Because this is an extra special episode, we've brought in a butler. The production's complaining that the butler. Okay, the production, this is gonna be a long episode. All right. Um welcome to this special edition off the rails with the famous heist. Um, we have a rough script. This is how we do things here.

SPEAKER_05 2:07

I don't script like half of my stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Welcome to the podcast. It's uh one page of notes, and I tried to give you both copies, but I'm not giving them to you.

SPEAKER_05 2:15

Great. So done.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Who are you and why are you here?

SPEAKER_05 2:20

That is a fantastic question. Why did it have to be trains? Yes. Who am I? Uh I am a dude. I like trains. He sips quite loudly. It's very Japanese polite of you. Thank you. Yeah. Uh that's appreciated. Uh I I had grown up loving trains and stuff, and somehow be uh doing YouTube has become my full-time job. Uh, and I wouldn't have it any other way, even as much work as it is. But uh I am here, I always tell all the orgs I go to, hey, I'm the cheerleader, I'm here to shake the pom-poms and talk about all the cool stuff that you guys are doing. Uh it's showcasing railroading, whether it's class one, class two, tourist railroading, museums, preservation, whatever it is, um, all historic train things. We try to celebrate it, uh, explain it, and all the things on the YouTube and uh promote all that stuff. So that's why I'm here. Yes. That was a great PR script.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

You know you're a Mount Rainier City Ground Recorder.

SPEAKER_05 3:17

Oh, that's right. Yeah. Uh hi, I like guitars, trains, rock and roll, whiskey, beer, all the stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Where are you from?

SPEAKER_05 3:25

I'm from Seattle.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:29

Yes. No, so I am uh I'm originally from Seattle. I've actually volunteered with Mount Rainier before. Back in the day. For one day. Well, one whole day. You they put me in a firebox all day. Like, oh, okay, here you go, which, you know, if you're gonna have a day. Uh, but I've also volunteered at Northwest Railway Museum and Sheikh Hales and Centralia briefly as well. So it's like I've actually seen a fair amount of Washington railroading despite the all the stuff being very Colorado.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Live in Colorado.

SPEAKER_05 3:54

Yes, yeah. I decided that I missed my friends in the steam trains, so I uh quit my Sound Transit corporate job and uh went to go be stupid on the internet, I guess.

unknown 4:05

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Um so you've always been into trains. You were one of those kids.

SPEAKER_05 4:10

Yes. My granddad um yes, talk to the cameras. You talk to the camera. Production, would you like you to talk and stare longingly into the lens? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 4:23

Uh my granddad was the guy that made the first sound system for model trains back in the day for Pacific Fastmail um up in Edmonds. So, like I saw the daylight run back, you know, painted black for the first time.

SPEAKER_04 4:37

So autism has autism. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 4:39

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I'm autistic, mom's autistic, granddad was definitely autistic. Yeah. I love you, mom, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

But so you've always been into trains.

SPEAKER_05 4:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Um, and how long have you been basic famous on the internet?

SPEAKER_05 4:54

Uh God, I've been doing the YouTube for almost five years, and like the first time I got like recognized at a public train something was 2022, so like four years. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Still weird, but uh that sounds weird.

SPEAKER_05 5:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

It is weird. We're not nearly as basic famous as you, and it's it's weird.

SPEAKER_05 5:13

Yeah, yeah. Every time it's still it's still strange. It's it's nice and it's great to meet people, but it's like, oh, oh, that's okay. You you know what I do, you know who I am. That's weird.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Okay, that's cool. And you're you're here because you're doing music stuff.

SPEAKER_05 5:28

Yes, my uh my old rock band is reuniting for one night only, and there'll probably be video of that on my second YouTube channel if I can get to it. Shrug. We'll see, maybe that happens, maybe not. Um, and it's you know, it's like goodness, every time I visit, I'm like family, family, family, all the stuff, seeing everybody. And at every time I'm like, man, I need an extra day to come see you guys and be here because I've not been back since you guys started running again.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

So why did you make that porch poor choice? You know, because I hate myself.

SPEAKER_05 5:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

All right.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Well, it's good to establish that.

SPEAKER_05 5:58

Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. Mastichist, steam trains. If you like steam trains, you have a problem. Um, you know, if we all understand this.

SPEAKER_04 6:05

Yeah so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Welcome to off the rails.

unknown 6:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 6:12

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah, okay. Okay. We have a we have a three-part script. Maybe it's four, maybe it's five. Um, the first thing, we're going to have it's sort of like a state of the union, but it's a state of the industry. Why are you looking at me like that?

SPEAKER_04 6:28

I always look at you like that. Judgment What was that voice? I always look at you like that. No. You still that's hate and discontent. Ugh. That's that's how the rumors started.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Here's the thing is this morning I didn't okay. We had a long day yesterday, and I skipped a meal.

SPEAKER_07 6:49

Not good. Like, we only got like an hour and 15 minutes before we gotta get more food and her.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

So I skipped a meal yesterday, so it set the trajectory of the week off. Um rowdy is the usually the most, the closest collateral damage to my missed meals. And um, I thought I was doing okay this morning, and you take one look at me and you're like, dude, no, nah. So he's already had a full day of babysitting.

SPEAKER_07 7:19

Everybody thinks I'm the problem.

SPEAKER_05 7:22

We can all be the problem collectively. Like, there's there's no you like we can all, you know, everyone can be a problem. You can have multiple problems. I've been told this.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yeah, okay. So state of the industry by the industry. Um, for these purposes, I am defining it as heritage rail and excursion railroading. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 7:45

Okay. So if I start going through the roof too much, you're just gonna have to pull me back. Okay, okay. So I have strong opinions.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

So, generally speaking, purpose of the industry is historic preservation, railroad preservation. Um, I would assume for a lot of places it's local economic impact, heritage tourism, all of those things. Uh, we're gonna do like a SWOT analysis. So, strengths, we weaknesses, opportunities, threats is how how I'm gonna structure this.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

She got very corporate all of a sudden. That's her degree talking.

SPEAKER_05 8:22

Yeah, that brought me back. That was trauma just then. It was like special weapons and what?

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Um so strengths, strengths of the industry. Like, what's going well? What are we really good at?

SPEAKER_05 8:36

There's a lot more steam engines running recently than like 20 years ago, 15 years ago.

SPEAKER_07 8:45

Where's the bell? We need a little bell. Ivan.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Weren't you in charge of installing like the service? The attendant call, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 8:53

Um they got removed. Yeah, people want to quit playing with it.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

There's a lot of steam engines running. Real. Um, I would say that we are um the fuzzy puppy in many ways of the railroad world. Like, we're cute. I'm real. We're like people. Um we touch a lot of we touch a lot of people. That wasn't good phrasing. Um are we still not doing phrasing? I only touch myself, okay.

SPEAKER_05 9:23

You are still people, technically.

SPEAKER_07 9:31

My lawyer said it'd be better off if I just kept it that way. But uh well, you know, it's fine. Uh don't die, Calvin. Don't die.

SPEAKER_05 9:40

I would say by and large, looking at the data, because if you're interested, you can actually look up the FRA's database and you can look at everyone's and sort by tourist roads. I love data. You can see the data on how many passengers are hauled. Uh and I mean I looked at it recently, and uh goodness gracious, 50% of ridership by tourist trains, December. I wonder why. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

We are hauling about a third of what Amtrak does. Right. Uh yeah. So I mean, that's a that's a lot of people for an industry that's largely doesn't receive government funding and like like Amtrak, like sound transit.

SPEAKER_05 10:15

Yes. Yeah. Um no tax revenue unless specific heritage, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

So I mean, not to say we don't apply for grants and things like that, but um that's a lot of people that we're carrying. Um, that's a lot of points of contact with the general public. I think that was rather than touching people, points of contact with the general public. That's good, that's good corporate phrasing. Yeah, yeah, a lot better than touching people.

SPEAKER_07 10:38

Yes. The corporate person who said it.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

We do background check all of our staff on board. There are certain people with certain rap sheets that we don't hire. I'm not staff. We won't be using him as Santa. Um, so um, I mean, what else is the industry doing while rowdy? Come on, bud.

SPEAKER_07 11:08

He's putting me on the spot. I wasn't ready for that. Um uh engaging, positive, some corporate mumbo jumbo. Perfect example. The 70 in town yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

So we took the 70 on a little bit of our rare, rare mileage. Uh, we're, you know, restoring more track. So we took the 70, probably the furthest north she's been in a while. A hot minute. And we've had the diesel out there, but it was the first time we've had a steam engine out there, and we did post a well, actually, we saw the comments start coming in of like, what was that whistle I heard? Is the steam train coming through? Oh my god. And people were just normally like, and we'll we'll talk about this. It's like when you're restoring track and you're running in places that haven't been run in a long time, usually there's some heartache and a little bit of nimby stuff happening, um, which was greatly reduced uh by taking a steam engine out. Go figure. Nostalgia factor.

SPEAKER_07 12:09

Yeah. Yeah. Like people like steam engines more than they like diesels, apparently.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 12:16

Go figure.

SPEAKER_05 12:18

Go work on one and then you know, form a new opinion.

SPEAKER_07 12:23

Yeah. It's a love-hate relationship. The John Q public loves them. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

So um, events. I think this industry does events well. It's holiday tradition.

SPEAKER_05 12:36

Yes. You're a holiday train here, slash perhaps trademark things, blah blah blah. Whoever chooses to do what does very well, as evidenced by December being literally half writership, basically. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Um traditional, iconic Americana. Um there's definitely a huge amount of local economic impact that happens is a result of um our choo-choos.

SPEAKER_05 13:01

Um there are successes in thinking that uh anyone who saw a steam engine operate back in the day, you know, as a regular occurrence is largely gone. And so most of the audience that is out there now is a new audience that never saw it. And so the fact that it's still successful and liked is really good. Um, I know personally for me, like 65% of my audience is between 18 and 35. And so it's like that is a younger crowd, it's not just the old men with lion L's and autism.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Uh we like those people too.

SPEAKER_05 14:10

We do, we do. Uh again, grandpa, but you know, there's new audiences and new people being approached, and there's more. I've seen, you know, interestingly enough, at our museum, at the Colorado Raiard Museum, uh, I don't speak for the museum officially, but anecdotally, I have noticed that there are more young women and young girls that are interested in like day out with Thomas and things, which has been a recent development. So, you know, there's there's growth happening. The audience is broadening somehow, surprisingly.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Yeah. I think that that's very fair. Um, I mean, across the industry, about 70% of ticket purchasers are women and grandmas with kids. Yeah. So um, I got statistics and data all day. Data.

unknown 14:57

Data.

SPEAKER_07 14:57

Bethel loves data.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

What's the W weaknesses?

SPEAKER_07 15:02

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Yeah. I'm gonna try and talk about what we do well. So it's strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and then threats to the industry. We'll probably just, you know. Um weaknesses. Oof.

SPEAKER_05 15:16

Crowd management. Watching watching poor Ed with the 4014, I would be, I I can't even imagine. I my head would just be on the automatic the whole time. Like, good lord. Yeah. I don't envy that.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Uh no. Weakness is the general public. It's like no the strength, but but also, yes. Two things can be true. Yes. Um, how do we there's actually on our comments yesterday, um, I posted and said, like, hey, attention, public, you know, local public. The section of tracks is active. We know it hasn't been in a long time. However, stay safe. Don't don't trespass. Don't don't get out on the railroad, blah, blah, blah. And uh one of the comments, it was shared on a personal page, was it's not like it's even a real train, it's a steam locomotive.

SPEAKER_05 16:05

And it was, and I like it will flatten you just the same with a whistle as it will with a horn on it, huh?

SPEAKER_02 16:13

And then it'll go boom. Yeah, like yes.

SPEAKER_07 16:16

It will still kill you just the same. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

Yeah. So that was, you know, um. And I would say that um, much like the Department of Education has uh learned over the past many decades, educating the general public and the populace is in fact a worthy pursuit, but also an uphill battle.

SPEAKER_05 16:40

Yeah. Yep. The common clay of the New West. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Exactly. So um weaknesses, I would say that um ego opinion and tribalism.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

Lordy. Yes. There's there's a lot of that around the industry. Cults of personality and personalities in the industry they're they're not naming names, but uh yes. That's a whole thing. And and then you you you kind of get a lot of orgs that do have kind of the good old boys club mentality, too. Yeah. I feel that that has been reducing recently. Like I feel that there are a little bit less over the last couple years, you know, the last couple decades, but but it's still there and it's definitely a challenge and a weakness that is in the industry by and large. What do you do about it? That is the that is the damnedest question. For for us, I know that you know, uh understanding certain individuals were problematic and then seeing them go away and building a new culture worked out. I'm very proud of where our museum's at, and it certainly used to be an old boys' plug. Um, but it it takes a lot of people and it takes a lot to kind of oust that kind of personality, especially if there's a network and things.

SPEAKER_07 17:58

Yeah, yeah, I think you gotta be as an organization, you gotta be unafraid to confront it and say, you are the problem. It's not the organization is the problem, it's you are a problem, and we're gonna disassociate ourselves with you just like that.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

We we had um, I mean, in some some ways, the really, really bad fortune of the place just being shut down and then starting. But also, you know, it's an opportunity um because you had to create the culture now, right?

SPEAKER_07 18:31

Um we we had to do that with a few people that came in as that hey, you are a problem. We will not we will not accept this behavior. You need to leave. We were pretty vicious about it. Very vicious.

SPEAKER_05 18:44

Well, it's important. I mean, one bad seed that can sow discontent in the culture that can wreck everything.

SPEAKER_07 18:50

Yeah, it's it's easier to spend two or three weeks just knowing that that person's gonna be out there spreading your name like dog shit and saying, hey, you know what, we dealt with it, it's not in our culture anymore. And then they go off and become a problem somewhere else. Right. Than it is to sit back and go, oh, eight months later, I wish we would have done something about this because this person just keeps getting worse and worse and worse and worse.

SPEAKER_05 19:11

Right. Yeah, I mean, I saw it all the time, and and this this is very much a people thing, it's not just a trains thing. Obviously, you have people with a lot of neurodivergence and a niche passion and things, and that amplifies things. But I mean, even when I was with the BNSF up at Interbay in Seattle, you know, you'd get new guys in the shop and it was great. They would be happy and excited, but the mentality of the shop truly was, oh, they're gonna close us down someday. Everyone hates it, management sucks. And you would see people who are excited and great to work with and really nice guys, and they would go from that to being grouchy, pissed off assholes in like two weeks.

SPEAKER_07 19:47

Because I think that that's that's what it is. Oh, it is.

SPEAKER_05 19:49

Oh, everyone, oh everybody.

SPEAKER_07 19:51

Everybody wants to be accepted. Right. Everybody wants to be accepted, so I'm just gonna I'm gonna reprogram myself to be shuts down everyone or they leave. Yeah, yeah. And we had we had that here for many years. There were there were multiple people that were here that were just grouchy about everything, everything was, you know, this, that you couldn't do this, but you couldn't do that. Well, that locomotive is a piece of junk. We don't need to be working on it. Let's just focus all attention on this locomotive. And and it was not a fun place to be. Yeah, you know, it was not. You at the when you when you're walking in and thinking that, okay, I'm in how far through the day am I gonna make it before somebody starts yelling at me, right? Just for a difference of opinion, it's not a fun place to be. And the thing I mean is this is one of those situations of the organization is Brian's told me several times that there were a few people here I wish I would have just told them to get.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Brian was the GM for years, and CMO, and yeah, he was a long time not run around Scenic Railroad.

SPEAKER_05 20:48

Right. Yeah, he was the one that put me in the firebox.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Um good dude. Um, and I mean, I from my perspective, I think I'm still here just because it's funny. Um because there were a lot of dudes, older dudes that I mean we and we've talked about it, just didn't want a woman around. Um we've we've talked about that funny. But um I would say other weaknesses um is also oh I was going for the cupcakes, but she needs her saying I love that they've all grown.

SPEAKER_05 21:35

Careful, that might hurt your teeth.

SPEAKER_07 21:39

Who brought who bought the cupcakes? Listen, bought a teapot that doesn't pour.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

Okay, cupcakes that don't eat. So the business.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

I understand that some people listen to this. But fake cupcakes.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

So let me speak. Um so for those of you at home, maybe yeah, I'm gonna let you speak.

SPEAKER_07 22:02

I'm gonna need more of that.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

There was a uh there there was there were numerous requests for another Mount Rainier Scenic Railroad tea party. So I was at Walmart yesterday and I was in the kitchen section trying to buy a tea set. Do you know what want to know what Walmart does not sell? Teacups and saucers. Huh? So I went to the kids' toy section, and there were two choices. There is a mini mouse tea set, and there was also a lovely little bird tea set. And because we have special guests Birdman. Much much fame. Uh I got the bird tea set. Also, I named one of my children Alfred, and he really, really likes serving coffee in the morning. So I figured Alfred would enjoy the tea set. Um it came with snacks. But I do really like that uh Ivan, what's your other what's his other thing? Uh the mygor. Like by the Ivan, the higher health uh has grown so fearful of my hunger that like I was like, I'm on camera, I request a snack, and he's like, let me rifle through my bag to find everything I can. Oh God.

SPEAKER_05 23:17

You're not nude, you're hungry.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Um weaknesses. The other thing I was what I was gonna say um is perception of the industry and professionalism. And I I know that that's a hot take coming from Mount Rainier Scenic Railroad to be talking about professionalism.

SPEAKER_05 23:33

Uh hot take coming for me too, but I agree.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

I mean, I think professionalism in terms of safety and operations, right? There's there's a lot of tourist railroads run FRA light or maybe aren't shrinkulated, which I have very strong feelings about. Um I think anytime you're carrying the general public, you need to be regulated. Um, I think a lot of the old guard is still very like FRA bad regulation bad.

SPEAKER_05 24:00

And and it is a I'm gonna speak for route of here. It is a goddamn minimum standard. It's not that hard. Soapbox.

SPEAKER_07 24:09

Minimum standard is one step above condemned. Literally, yes. It's not it's not that hard at all.

SPEAKER_05 24:16

Whether or not you're operating a rolling pipe bomb.

SPEAKER_07 24:19

I am you know you know the regulation quite literally says you can write your own thing. You just have to have something to go off of. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Yeah, like you can write you write your own programs. And I mean it it is a hot take. I my previous railroad at Arondag, all of the crews were volunteers, and we were there was no FRA light. We were to full 240, 242 program 219. So that's your conductor, your engineer certifications, your drug testing. Um I am of the opinion that we all should be fully regulated. Um, and there should be training programs and requirements for conductors and engineers. Um, both because of safety, but I think that there's a huge amount of with the class ones and even other short lines, there's a huge amount of stigma. If you say, like we go to conferences and professional events and say we're with Mount Rainier Scenic Railroad, and I always sort of say it like, sorry, I'm here.

SPEAKER_05 25:19

And I like I I feel I say it with confidence because there is that attitude that you get as the industry where people look at it and they go, Oh, you're you're a toy trainer, you're your kids playing with lionels that are full size, yeah, whatever. And so you get a little bit of that negativity and that aspect from people, but then you can also get it on the side of people who are doing it. They're going, oh, this isn't a big deal, this is not a real thing, it's not real equipment, and they don't take the safety or the severity seriously. Um, and you get that, and it's it scales worse and worse how small the op is. We get crap all the time. Oh, you just run on a little circle of track. You're not a real engineer, not a real conductor, you don't know what you're doing. Uh, and it is the most tough little circle, sorry, Calvin, uh tough little circle of track in existence. And anytime we have pro people come and run here for the first time, they get their ass kicked, and it's like you it is railroading, like no matter what it is, if it's two-foot gauge, full size, whatever, you have to take care of it, right? And too many people have kid gloves on with it, you know.

SPEAKER_07 26:20

We've had had that here with people, you know, oh, I'm an engineer and I can do this and I can do that. And then, you know, they get into the S curves and go, I have never had to deal with a 28-degree curve that's got a three percent grade rate. Well, that's like talking about industry events.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

I mean, like talking about industry events. I mean, we mentioned it before, like, but when we start talking about like the territory that we're running through, you you know, it's usually dudes, right? And you see their eyes just they go. What?

SPEAKER_05 26:47

Class one rail roaders that have never seen more than a one percent grade.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

I know I haul some serious grades, I'm like, oh, what's the what's the steepest 1.8? And you're like, cute. That's what our yard is.

SPEAKER_07 27:00

Uh we just use dynamics on that, right? Yeah. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

Weaknesses, I don't what do we what do you do about it? What do you do about it?

SPEAKER_05 27:12

I I think you try and continue to push for professionalism and and you you put out a great product when you're with the general public that is pro. If the experience is pro and it it doesn't feel like you're coming to the ramshackle tent circus show, you know, if you come to an official thing and the events are well run and coordinated, that helps with the public side. The the internal inside baseball side, that's challenging and it's about the organization itself, right?

SPEAKER_07 27:39

So the the when you do that, when you when the public feels like they're getting a good experience, that helps breed it too.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

I've said it a million times, I must say it again, and it's a hot take because we are not a licensee of the Christmas train. But but I do think that Al Harper and Rail Events um have done more to professionalize the industry and setting forth a standard of this is how you'll do events. Here's an event manual where you're thinking, and and Thomas too. Right. Um Thomas has been through a few management companies, right? But like this is how you handle crowd control. You need to have enough restrooms. How many restrooms, like you have this number of guests, how many restrooms do you need to have? What is your parking lot management? Yeah, all of those things that make a good event that maybe aren't the train. Right.

SPEAKER_07 28:29

And too many organizations, they focus on the train. Right. The train, the train, the train, the train, and they don't think about anything else. I mean, the customer's experience starts the second that they turn into your driveway.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Right. Well, and I mean, I was I was walking around LB yesterday going like, why don't we have hanging flowers? Like our decorations look sloppy. Like, and I was sort of like that. There's there was a list of things. We need to clean up our act because this is getting sloppy. Like we need we need to tighten up the leech.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

It makes a significant difference. When I I mean I started at the museum, goodness, coming on 15 years ago at this point, which is ridiculous. But when it was, you know, before that, even it really was a little bit of the old boys' club, country club. Hey, come here and you walk in, and and it's you know, just kind of ramshackle. There's an old building and the train, and all about the train, not about the experience. But these days, seeing how things have changed, how it's grown, and and focusing on not the train, focusing on the story, focusing on the people and the experience, seeing the way that we put on Polar Express, the licensee, you know, all that stuff that we do, the actual event, and seeing it become a stage production that is designed to be a stage production, and there just happens to be a train in it. Uh, it it sets the standard and really makes a professional look. And then in turn, when you know that you're doing that, you know, oh well shoot, hang on, we gotta we gotta be doing things right to ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

So for us, a lot of that has been picking what we think we can do and do well. So, like you've walked around our museum grounds, it looks like shit right now. And it's because we don't have the bandwidth, and we have and we're starting to work on it.

SPEAKER_08 30:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Genuinely, like we're we're applying for grants. We're that is starting to fall on our purview, but we knew we weren't gonna be able to open the museum to the public and do it well. That was gonna spread us too thin. Um, so we chose what we could focus on. And the first year it was whiskey trains and scenic streams, steam train rides going back and forth. And the public, I think like especially the rail fan community, wanted us to do more, and we were like, this is it, this is what we can do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 31:27

Well, that's so I think that's another weakness, is that people spread themselves out way too thin because they think they have to be doing things the same way everybody else are, right? You know, if if I wanted to be doing things the same way every everybody else did here, I'd be so focused on trying to have six steam locomotives running, yeah, that that money would be not be going to the places it needs to be going because, well, I'd be having six ranch shackled locomotives that can't move out of their own, but by God, I got six steam locomotives on it, right? Yeah, you don't have to have it all running all at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

For me, and like if we are really talking a SWOT analysis, getting into opportunities a little bit, I think that this industry also, as much as there's like some ego and tribalism and a little bit of infighting, there is a huge amount of cooperation. Like today alone, I've texted people from four different railroads just about random stuff, right? Like just someone wanting to know about insurance. What I do it, um, I got it.

SPEAKER_07 32:26

Shot.

SPEAKER_05 32:26

Oh, yeah, there it is.

SPEAKER_07 32:27

Oh god, I don't have a shot. Hi, man. Um you better pour me a double.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

He's foaming it going to look at the big boy. Um, I don't know. Um you know, but just like random service.

SPEAKER_07 32:41

We just clean the car reaching.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

We just talked about maintaining levels of service, and I've got our butler reaching over the bar. The okay. But geez. Customer wants a drink now. I give now. Anyway. Uh so you know, I mean, there is a huge amount of cooperation. So as we talk about tribalism and ego, there's also a huge amount of cooperation, and I think that there's there's more and more. But I do think that the industry tends to be so insular. Like when I look at marketing, I don't look inside the industry, it's what what's going well. I my favorite account to follow is Wash Doc, is the Washington State DOT. They do a killer job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:24

They're great. Yeah, they're on Reddit. They post on Reddit about like, oh, hey, here's the stuff going on. And you're like, but that's wash what?

SPEAKER_02 33:31

I like so like washed. I mean, like, there have been a few like social media highs for me. And when Washdot followed us back, I was like, um, which is goofy and silly. That like they do a great job with their social media. Um, I follow a bunch of zoos in aquariums, and I mean they have like cute fuzzy animals, and that's like arguably way better than a steam engine. Like you get to post photos of otters, like what? Um, but like I look at what other attractions, what other industries are doing, what other music there's a lot of museums in the UK who are on point with their social media.

SPEAKER_05 34:09

Right. Because at the end of the day, whether it's a tourist route or a museum or whatever, it is the same experience as a zoo aquarium. Yes, it's our thing and it's trains and whatnot, but that you were you are providing an experience for a family, right?

SPEAKER_07 34:21

When we were opening it back up, one of the first things that we were saying is that we're not a railroad, we are a site attraction to the big rock.

SPEAKER_05 34:28

Yes, the very large rock.

SPEAKER_06 34:30

Which is Mount Rainier. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 34:32

Which is it's right down the road. We're on the main artery to get into the main gate. We are a site attraction to that. We need to figure out okay, if you're spending a day at Mount Rainier National Park and you're looking for some time to kill, what are you gonna do? Right. Let's take the kids for an hour and 15-minute long train ride.

SPEAKER_05 34:48

Yeah, if you guys did a Durango and Silverton full day experience, it wouldn't work. It wouldn't work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

We we and the plan is eventually to do that, but we need two train sets that do it. Right. We can't give up the bread and butter.

SPEAKER_05 35:01

And on a special occasion basis where you can charge the training.

SPEAKER_07 35:06

I'm not I'm not trying to shit on past managements of Mount Rain Air Scientific Railroad, but when they went away from the hour and 30-minute train ride to the loop and started trying to do this two-hour-long experience at the museum where you wrote the train for 30 minutes, got off the train, wandered around here, there's not enough here to keep you busy for 45 minutes to an hour.

SPEAKER_05 35:25

Unless you're perverted and light geared steam.

SPEAKER_07 35:27

Yeah. Yeah, right? And then they got back on the train and tried to go back to town. I mean, as the mother in the room and you're trying to get toddlers and stuff like that on and off the train, you're not gonna.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

And that was that was part of my rationale when we started back up. Now, mind you, I only had one consequence of my decisions at the time, not three. But um Martin loved trains. Um, but the thought of at the time, even with like Tony and I getting the kid on the train, then off the train and corraling him, and like, am I changing a diaper? What are the what's the snack situation? Like, and then I have to get them back on the train, and I don't necessarily want to be a hazard to the rest of the public with my children. At that point, we're gonna deal with some cranky kids. Um you got a bathroom on site they can't deal with the bathroom. If I'm gonna walk around the whole facility, like yeah, with I have twins, um, especially when they're younger, like I either they're on backpack. Well, Morgan is on the we've been over this. Morgan's the one on the leash. She's an independent woman in danger too.

SPEAKER_07 36:36

Um I wonder who she gets that from. Anyway, so opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

It's a lot. Um, but I think that is one. Looking outside the industry, like what do I had a question the other day about a costume policy on board because we had everything. We have a duty to put the public safety first and foremost, right? If I have folks in costume that are covering their faces and their heads, um, or people in reenactment with weapons, right? That's sometimes like really real, or you know, whatever it is. Um, how am I guaranteeing the public safety? And I reached out to a few museums and they're like, we don't really have a costume policy. And I was like, who would? And I looked at what Disney and what Universal Studios do. And I was like, oh, they've really thought about this. Um, and I basically sort of co-opted what they did because I was like, hey, they've had a whole lot of attorneys look at this queerly, right? There's been insurance companies, there's been actuaries, risk analysis where they've done this. I'm gonna steal what they did and adopt that.

SPEAKER_05 37:49

Makes sense? Yeah, it's important to have that sort of thing. For me, I think looking at opportunities, it comes into the populace and potential pool of people, uh, both as staff or volunteers. And I you guys are all staff here, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Uh I mean, we've had a few volunteers floating around, but truth be told, our our volunteer program is not dead, but pretty close. Sure. Because we haven't had the bandwidth to manage it.

SPEAKER_05 38:15

Right. And that that that is a whole barrel of monkeys on its own separate thing, which is a whole thing.

SPEAKER_07 38:20

Especially, you know, with the volunteer situation being what it is for us, is that you everybody's, oh yeah, I want to come volunteer. Cool. We'd love for you to come, but you can't play with trade. Right.

SPEAKER_05 38:30

Yeah. If you're gonna make professionalism, yeah, and and you've got some paid people, some not. I mean, it's it can be a challenge, and and with the level of operation you guys do, it makes sense. At the museum in Colorado, again, I don't speak for the museum, but we are largely volunteer couple staff in the shop. Uh, I think I am now staff emeritus and a volunteer at this point, but uh either way, um there are opportunities in the people that you can bring in because I I know who watches my YouTube, I see what it is, and I see that it is a large group of younger people who are passionate and interested, and a lot of them have no clue on how to get involved. I have been asked so many times what degree do I need to get so that I can work on the steam engine and I can say like, guys, or not firemen to fire them.

SPEAKER_07 39:16

Yeah, yeah. We we basically he had a job here right out of high school. You know what he was a volunteer. I mean, that's our volunteer program is we have no volunteers because we hire them all.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

I remember looking at him across the concession stand and saying, Nate, what do you want to do when you graduate? And he said, Well, I think I want to be an electrician, and that really surprised me. And I went, Do you actually like you don't want a career in railroading? And he was like, Well, yeah. I went, Okay, Nate. How about we put you on payroll? And like, and that was, I mean, that was more or less the conversation. I was like, You're gonna go out with Brian, you're gonna do track work, we're gonna lean learn news and maintenance away, you're gonna do and he is just I don't know, I can't speak highly enough about Nate. That's great. Every podcast, Nate and Chris, but I mean, there's a reason.

SPEAKER_07 40:08

Well, and it's like, well, Chris is the same thing. I mean, it was uh he was coming up here after work two or three nights a week to to help work on stuff so that we could keep the the 70 going. And it just finally I called her and said, we have got to offer him a job. You were like, he's losing money from the money. He is literally, he's he's literally losing money.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Yeah, and I think okay, so that is um, if you talk about threats, disposable income, right? Is uh the who has time to volunteer in this industry? It tends to be older people with some disposable income, and it is what it is, right?

SPEAKER_05 40:43

Right. So making volunteering accessible to different pools is an important thing that a lot of people don't have to do.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

For us here, like how far did you drive the gigger the day?

SPEAKER_05 40:52

Two hours.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Yeah, I mean, and if you're coming from to Andy or Ivan, how far do you drive? Hour and 50 minutes.

SPEAKER_07 41:00

Okay. The thing of it is he comes up on Wednesday, he stays until Sunday. Not everyone can do that. Not everyone can do that. I mean, I have a family. Um, if what was the one of the main things that we've talked about here? Is that that's to get people here, we have to we have to go old school and have employee housing of some kind.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Yeah, just because our location is so rural. And yeah, there are people locally, but not a what the population of minerals 50 something? Yeah, LB's 30 something, Morton. You got 1200? I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_07 41:32

That's the only reason why the population down there is still there is because it's the mills. Because of the mills. So I mean 2500.

SPEAKER_05 41:39

That is the that is the real deal of it is location with that with pools of volunteers and things. Because I know um I'm part of the next generation railroaders organization, that's a thing, and we discuss a lot, okay, how who can you get in, whatnot. And hearing the East Broadtop talked about we can't find anyone to teach. No one wants to do this, they're out in the middle, you know, nowhere in Pennsylvania. And to me, I was like, I don't have feedback on this because we have more young people volunteering than ever because we're next to Denver.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

I love, I love, you know, we're gonna turn this into another shot situation. I love the guys at the Nagatuck. Um, you know, uh Howard, Dave, Alex, Matt. They've got a they've established a very, very, very nice, healthy culture. They have a ton of volunteers. They've got a very diverse group of volunteers. Part of it is their location. It's accessible from a bunch of different states, from the city, from Long Island, you know. Um they can they can pull for people, and it makes sense for them to have a well-managed volunteer program.

SPEAKER_07 42:42

Well, here's another here's here's another threat, and this is a this is on the employee side of things. You can't afford to pay them a living wage. You have to pay your people a living wage. And that's that's the you know, we have such a small staff because we pay the staff a decent wage, but it's still not a good enough wage to live in the area. Yeah. Especially when, you know, the short-term rental thing in the area with Airbnb. It's housing in the area is the problem more than anything. That made it to where a mortgage in this area is thirty, five hundred dollars a month. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:13

That is what closed, that is what closed Interbay. It was not all the logistics and thing, is it was that the employees we could get were driving from Lacey or further south. Because even at a great union rate of like $35 an hour, you can't live in Seattle. You can't.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Yeah. I mean, it I mean, yeah And that problem is so much bigger than us because we are, I think we are probably paying more than the rest of just about the rest of the industry. Oh, yeah. Um but the cost of living here is so high. Yeah. Um Damn.

SPEAKER_07 43:45

Yeah. Um see that's a threat. I would say And that was the only reason why we're getting into the freight situation and trying to get into the freight situation is railroad retirement. Railroad retirement and be able to bump those wages up to where you can live.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

I mean, it is absolutely insane that we are talking about taking 13,000 trucks off the road and hauling, you know, 4,500 center beams a year because that conversation started because I wanted a way to get us to be able to pay into railroad retirement. Yeah, that was the reason that conversation started. Um, because if I can provide a pension for my staff, right? Also, getting anyone competent from the other short lines. Like I want a good maintenance away crew with experience. And and the ability to need the railroad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 44:32

I'm here. I mean, all right, what's next on your list?

SPEAKER_02 44:36

Um, that's the other threats. Um, I mean, that's a whole lot of talking. What do we do about it? Fill them full of cement and put them in the parks.

SPEAKER_05 44:48

Yeah, sold, done. Turn them all into Honda Civics. Yeah, yeah. Razor blades. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Gillette needs more razors. I mean, that's that's the hard question. I think it's continuing the network.

SPEAKER_05 45:02

Um continuing collaboration, trying to be professional, you know, especially when it counts. You know, it's it's hard to put that face on. I get it. I I hate being like, oh, I'm a brand.

SPEAKER_07 45:14

I mean, how do you how do you but how do you kill ego, you know, at nine millimeter?

SPEAKER_08 45:22

I mean that you you talk.

SPEAKER_07 45:25

About threats, one of the biggest threats in our industry is the amount of ego that there is.

SPEAKER_05 45:30

It is challenging.

SPEAKER_07 45:31

I mean, right now I I'm I'm on the fence about doing business with a certain organization simply because I don't want to be a check mark on their bedpost of somebody that, oh, I did work for this person, and that's the only reason why they wanted to do work for us, is because I'm just a notch on the bedpost.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Right. I mean, it's it's I don't know what you do about that. And I mean, it's when you see I would like to think we operate a pretty safe, suitable operation. Um, and you know, and there are comments on the YouTube with safety glasses. Like, yes, you are right with the safety glasses. Um, but when you see stuff that maybe isn't so good, how do you nicely and professionally, like somehow, like as an industry, police it? I don't have an answer to that.

SPEAKER_05 46:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Whether it's insurance consortiums, um, that's something we've talked about. Is like, hey, if you have a lot of good actors with good safety records, is there a way that we can create some sort of insurance consortium or self-insured where right where we're able to bargain for a lower rate? So that incentivizes people to be safe. I I don't have an answer to that.

SPEAKER_05 46:41

Right. It's challenging because a lot of it really lands on personal attitude and kind of hive mind type things. And the best thing that every org can do is try and build the best culture they can. And if you're a volunteer somewhere, work on, you know, if you see the old buddy buddy kind of cult of personality thing to challenge it. And that's all kind of crappy. And maybe it means you have to step away from the org too. But you know, it's that's tough. The the other piece I see a lot that I think is something that the listeners hopefully can take to heart is that there's a lot on the internet that turns into dogpiling over unnecessary things in a lot of ways. It's a great stuff. Yeah, it is. Bam! I didn't even plan that. But like, for example, uh, a locomotive, your steam locomotive has a video on the internet, somebody's whoever it is, and it's got leaking throttle packing, and everyone comes into the goddamn comments and goes, Oh my god, it's a bomb, they're unsafe, they're gonna blow up.

SPEAKER_07 47:37

And it's like, have you ever we had a comment on the first video of the 70s running? Yeah, I mean, it was literally the first time it's moved under its own power since Christmas. Right. And did we get to everything? No, we didn't. We know we got clank bang, and there is one person in there that's just like, well, I'm judging the safety of all you do because we got a rod brass that's going clank, clunk, clank, clunk, clank, clunk, clank, and it's gonna get fixed next week. You know, it's like holy crap, you're you're you you just you're trying to take away from what these two guys just did in four months because of a loose rod brass. That mentality, and that I'm not gonna go into any farther, but that person's got a bone to pick, just to have a bone to pick.

SPEAKER_05 48:21

Yep. And and people then dogpiling on it, and it's like understand and appreciate what is a true safety concern, what is important, what is real there, and and you know, good heartedly try and approach the problem, not immediately go, ah, whatever, you know, we're suck.

SPEAKER_07 48:38

To your point, I mean, we've been fighting the throttle packing on the 70 now for about a week and a half because it takes a while to get that thing equipment leaking. Throttle packing just yes, it is what it is. And I think I know what video you're talking about. And there were other things in that video. I was going, I'm more concerned with that that's exactly throttle pack.

SPEAKER_05 48:57

Literally, yes, I've seen it several times. Feel like, oh my god, it's gonna blow up. It's like, no, did you see that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

It's like, look, look at this.

SPEAKER_05 49:03

Look at this get out of your armchair and go touch a wrench, please. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

So that's a that's a good segue because I think the next topic is the internet. Um, for us, and I've said it many times, our social media presence largely started by accident. Um, and it was because it was because we thought we were gonna fail. Um, and that it that is honest to God. So it was like we're going to put out what we're doing and why we're doing it um with so much more detail than we I think I don't want to say anyone at the time, but I don't know who else was going as nitty-gritty behind the scenes as we were at the time.

SPEAKER_07 49:44

Not very many people, because it was like a taboo to actually be honest to the public. Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Yeah, so we started because we thought we were gonna fail, and we sort of we wanted it, I wanted a defense of this is why we're making the decisions, and these are the means of the fan clubs we have.

SPEAKER_07 49:59

And we knew the fan club was gonna be coming and gunning for us. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Yeah, and um the impact it's had has been wild. So for you, I guess, how has like the YouTube changed your life and the trajectory of I mean it it's so wild for me.

SPEAKER_05 50:18

I mean, it's changed everything. Um, I moved back to Colorado knowing, you know, I had a great engineering job out here. Sound transit was wonderful to work for, all the stuff. Um, and I was making great I was making great money. It was fantastic and good, but in my heart of hearts, I knew I missed my people, I missed the steam engines because I'm, you know, because Stockholm syndrome is real, you know. Yeah. Uh and so I decided to move back to Colorado and quit the job. And at the time uh I was with uh an ex-partner of mine who made, you know, big bucks and it was gonna work out, and that was great. And then we split like three months after I moved, and I'm like, well, crap, hopefully this works out. And then the YouTube thankfully picked up right then and it's become my day-to-day. So it's changed everything because I've gone from corporate whatever engineering or the BNSF job and everything to now doing the content full-time, um, which is incredibly freeing in some ways and the most I've ever worked, and others. I mean, I if you look at a video that's well produced on my channel, every minute of runtime is an hour. Yeah. And just in editing, not in shooting and traveling and everything. So I mean it's it's changed everything um in in many ways, and in other ways it's it's not. Um, so it's wild. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

Yeah. I think sometimes for us it's you get it's like it's almost the golden handcuffs, because I think like I was telling you, like our ridership's just about doubled. Um, and we're not we're not as popular as you, um, by any means. But um sometimes the the tale starts wagging the dog.

SPEAKER_05 51:50

Yes, yeah. With with me by YouTube, I am blessed that I have channel members who pay me like Netflix, basically, and that is the only thing that keeps it consistent. If I didn't have that, I couldn't do it because the ad revenue and YouTube views, the algorithm is so fickle, and I have felt, I mean, earlier this year I felt so backed into a corner and forced that I had to do everything. So it was like, you know, that's backed into the corner, terrible. Like you feel locked to it. So it does come with that, but you know, thankfully things have changed and are are doing for the better as of late, which is great, but you know, it it does come with that, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 52:29

I had a thought and then production torpedoed it.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Torpedoed it. Um what advice do you have for us as we manage our social media?

SPEAKER_05 52:42

The the biggest thing that I can see, I mean, your guys' media presence is great and I enjoy it. Um, the biggest thing is that has been a success for me that has helped is do not read all of the comments. No, do not, just do not, just put it away for better.

SPEAKER_07 52:55

Beth then there are going to be the comments.

SPEAKER_05 52:58

There are gonna be people who are going to be terrible to you, regardless. And they will say things that will stick in your head forever. I have I had somebody on Facebook say, I don't know what a heist is, but I bet she sits when she peeps. And that lives in my head rent-free, and I'm like, I'm over it at this point, but it's like, what do you what? How many leaps did you go through to insult me like that? Like, what? You know, so that's the that's the danger of the internet.

SPEAKER_04 53:24

The internet has taken away. Don't stop seriously on every channel.

SPEAKER_07 53:30

The internet has taken away the fear of getting popped in the mouth.

SPEAKER_05 53:34

Literally, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 53:35

They and everybody hides behind the anonymity of well, I can just say whatever the hell I want. There's people that have said stuff to me that was like, you know what, I'm half tempted to drive your house and beat your ass.

SPEAKER_05 53:44

Listen to your mothers, everyone. Literally. My my the thing is, the engagement is important and feedback can be important. And what I do these days is I read everything by my channel members, guaranteed. But I when a video comes out, I will wait for it to go for a couple hours. I will go to the video itself, sort it by popular, yeah, and I'll read the top stuff, what people have upvoted, what has floated to the top, not sunk to the bottom to kill you.

SPEAKER_03 54:08

What level of restraint?

SPEAKER_07 54:11

She tells me, did you see what this guy comes at? Like, no, I didn't because I really don't care. Literally. You know, I, you know, I don't I'll read comments and stuff like that, but one that's it's like when I make a personal post too. I mean, there's some comments I'll engage with, but when it comes down to it, once the post is made, I dip to the I move away from it. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_05 54:29

I continue on down the road, you know. I hate to say this, Bethany, but please listen to Rowdy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 54:38

For the sake of the phone bill. Yeah. Anyway, production says this is a really good time to take a commercial break. We'll be back after the crash out.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Oh, all right. Well, hello, Calvin. How are we doing, my friend? I'm well. Um that was quite a ride. We just finished wrapping episode 18. Um we're just here to do a sponsorship plug because it takes money to make these things to buy the electricity for the lights. Calvin um and I also feed a family on this wage. So uh we would really like it if you have a business or you just love the podcast for like as little as $250, you can sponsor an episode and we'll say something nice about you. Because unlike the talent, um we know how to talk nice to people.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Exactly, exactly. Get your stuff in, even if it's a small business, quick snippet. We'd love to love to get your name out there, love to get some stuff out there for you. Um, you know, you never know unless you try it. So come on, send it over, we'll get you a spot, we'll get you plugged in.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

Yeah, go to Mount RainierRailroad.com and uh look us up. Thanks.

SPEAKER_07 55:52

The way to lead into the next conversation was the off-camera conversation.

SPEAKER_05 55:56

Okay, yeah. This all we got all of the screaming out.

SPEAKER_02 56:01

What happened is I had a crash out about reading the comments. We cut. Production panicked and put food in my mouth. Umdy's the hest.

SPEAKER_05 56:15

Rowdy went and phoned.

SPEAKER_07 56:16

I'm the keeper. No, I just meant to make sure that my ship wasn't getting broke. Uh well, fair enough. Mechanical.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

And we're back here. They're talking about the internet. And we've all had some tea, uh, we've had some crumpets. It's been a deluxe for last announcing.

SPEAKER_07 56:31

We've had some words, and we're back. All right, done the butler.

SPEAKER_04 56:38

Down to half a can.

SPEAKER_07 56:39

Half a can. I knew I should have brought some more.

SPEAKER_02 56:41

We're gonna have to make make more. Anyway, um the internet.

SPEAKER_05 56:48

It's not just a big truck, it's not something you just dump something on, it's a series of tubes.

SPEAKER_02 56:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a wild thing. Um, so the internet was originally invented by Al Gore specifically for the purpose of posting cats. And it's a fact.

SPEAKER_05 57:05

Yep. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 57:06

You know, it snopes me. Um and and okay, yeah, I didn't think that one was gonna break you.

SPEAKER_07 57:14

No, I the the the people are actually gonna think you believe that crap.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

Um anyway, um not a single person commented that I said LBJ was my favorite president for domestic purposes. Not a single person took me up on that hot take and argued.

SPEAKER_07 57:36

That was being is because the second you comment anything about LBJ, there's some person on the internet that's gonna comment about how he'd like to whip his penis out in front of everybody.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

Would we acknowledge that? Anyway. Um the internet's a fantastic place. Um I think in many ways uh the internet is You'd like to whip your penis down too?

SPEAKER_05 57:59

No. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

There we go. Now we're back on the dirt.

SPEAKER_07 58:05

There it is. There we go. Now we're back.

SPEAKER_05 58:07

We're in the dirt. It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

It's gone, and Beth's gonna die. I was going to say that the internet has been a blessing in many ways.

SPEAKER_05 58:16

It has not. Yes and no. It is violently extreme in that there's so much wonderful positivity and knowledge and grit, and then there is so much utter drivel, sloth, bullshit, garbage.

SPEAKER_02 58:29

We I think like like I am connected to so many more people in this industry, and we are so much better able to share best practices, what works, what doesn't, to form relationships with people in the industry to get the word out. That's awesome. The rise of AI, especially in the like I had someone last night that was like, Oh, I unfollow the railroad because everything you post is AI, and I'm like, I work really hard at that, and it's not it used to be that you were it used to be in the world that you got made fun of for photoshopping something, right? Yeah, and now it's AI, right? AI is the new Photoshop, and like the posters outside the depot. I spent a long time on those.

SPEAKER_07 59:10

By the way, I found a typo in one of them. Not long enough, evidently. The five is built in 1924, not 1920. That's not a typo, that's a fact check. What it said 1920? We put 1920 for the five.

SPEAKER_05 59:25

But I was I was there yesterday listening to people that were oh, they put those in the AI, and I was like, Yeah, it's it's challenging on the side of when people call it real stuff and then people who just celebrate the AI garbage. I'm sorry, it is.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

And it's just it's that one's a hard one. And so now I'm like, now I'm in my head going, like, okay, maybe I use less emoji. It's because in Facebook you can't format the posts well, right? So a lot of times I use emojis as bullet points, like visual line breaks to break up a giant wall of text because our attention spans are 12 seconds, right? So um I was like, hey, I you and I use them in that way to try and break it up. Right. Now I'm like, oh, maybe I don't do that if people think that looks like AI and I quick scroll. Tat TVT wrote that.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:11

Damn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:13

Then they tell AI, hey, just write our post the same way Mount Rainer Standard Railroad does.

unknown 1:00:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

Yeah. That was a funny one. Yeah, that's happened a few times. But whatever. Um, so I think it's not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:27

It's just uh, you know, you actually go through the work of making the post, and now somebody else could just sit back and say, hey, AI, just copy and paste it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

Well, that's funny because a lot of times I call you and I'm like, how do we do this? And you're like, you know how we do that. I'm like, no, but like for the internet, like how do I explain this to someone? Right. And then like we sit there and we bullshit for a minute about like you put the well, you put the fiddly bit and the whirly bit, and that's how then you know because if you try to explain it exactly the way it works, people are just gonna sit back and or or the critics are gonna come out and well that's not right. And I well, and I started doing these stupid drawings of like the diagrams and like the one with the stables, I was like, it's not really that accurate. And you're like, but how else are you gonna get it across in a cartoon about stables?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:15

The general public is so challenging to approach with levels of detail and nuance. And the internet is not a place for nuance.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:24

The internet is not a place for detail and nuance, period. Because if you try to explain it to people that don't know what they're really doing in a way that they're gonna understand, there's gonna be this person over here that just broadsides you for for or fact checks you.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:37

Well, and again, shape or form, yep. Especially, and I'm specifically talking about meta at this point, but who is my target audience?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:43

Yeah, me.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:45

I am the target audience.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:46

The women that buy the tickets to ride the Chi Chi with their kids.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:49

Yep, and yeah, the number of women that we have come up that go, hey, I actually follow your social media. I don't like trains, but it's funny. Like it's funny stuff. I follow it because it's funny, and I'm like, that's what I want. Um my target is not, well, of course they follow us. My target is not the fumber.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:09

Um and your target is not the industry colleagues, and we're not trying to impress the industry colleagues in any way, shape, or no, the YouTube is a little different.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:16

The YouTube is more for educational purposes. I mean, our demographics.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:28

I say his is more educational than ours.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:32

Yours is entertaining. Honestly, your yours is educational for me because and for the reason why I end up enjoying watching it is everything I do on a steam engine is so freaking routine, and when we end up contracting up boilerwork and whatever. So I actually get to learn something by you guys going through and doing it. I'm like, oh, that's how they do that. I've never gotten to take that apart or do that specific thing. So it can be if with a base level of knowledge, it's not like you're teaching it, you have to watch intently and go, oh, that's what they're doing.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:01

Okay. Well, and then the the the whole point of ours was to just be behind the scenes. Right. It wasn't, it wasn't at all ever supposed to be educational or anything like that. It was this is what it takes to do this. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:11

I mean, it's and that is education. Like it's it's not a how-to. Our YouTube is not meant to be prescriptive, right? Right. Nor is our podcast. It's not meant to be, these are opinions on how you should run your operation. Yeah, that is not well, we offer opinions, but what we do strong ones, but what we do works for us. I do not think that everyone in the country should be hauling freight with a steam locomotive because we believe that's what makes more sense for us. Yeah. That's stupid.

unknown 1:03:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:41

How many times in that conversation about hauling freight with a steam locomotive have we stepped back and gone, this is really dumb?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

But our operation is set up to support the operation of a steam locomotive. Yeah. And that's what we do, that's what we do well, and it's what we do at the best cost possible.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:57

The biggest diesel on the property is sitting over there in the corner of shame. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:02

Yeah. And uh rebuilding the electronics and one of that, absolutely no thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:11

That's been our entire point. Right. The amount of money and time it would take to make that thing dependable, you could do two steam locomotives with that money.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:21

You you could like to either get a secondhand locomotive that is worth a crap, yeah, uh, or anything. I mean, literally restoring our engine, like RGS20, 2.2 million dollars, you're still not gonna get a great engine because the amount of work that goes into it. The class ones are only getting rid of crap, junk, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:40

Getting rid of yeah, if it doesn't pencil out in the Excel spreadsheet in a certain way, yeah, it goes to the auction line.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:47

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:48

So, anyway, the internet.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:51

Um how so your advice was don't read the comments.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:55

Yes. Um read some of the comments, but not all.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

Yeah. For us, how do you decide what you show and what you don't? Because that's been a wild, because we started, our philosophy was radical transparency, we're gonna show as much as we can. And I have started having reservations about that because as we were discussing off camera, I posted about our big scary bridge the week before it went up in flames.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:25

And I flew sleep at night going, you know what? Maybe if I hadn't made that post, we wouldn't have lost the bridge. Um, when we're showing there's things on the line I I don't think I ever want to show, like vulnerabilities in the in the shop because there's a security issue, like, which is wild. I mean, it's it's not so much a um, you know, in in the podcast I talk about my children because it's part of my life, but they probably don't need to really appear on the internet, right? That there's I don't trust people, which is so wild to me because we're a whole bunch of like Rowdy and I like we're we're we're a whole bunch of nobodies. But it's still a and you are so much more of a somebody on the internet than we are. How do you decide what to post?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:21

It it is challenging and it it we usually almost always comes down to a judgment case, specifically in me. There are times when it's like, ooh, I'm filming with Mount Rainier. I would like them to review before I post something to make sure that there's not some hot button issue for them, you know, because you'll you'll get weird things like uh there was a railroad that, oh, you filmed our guy and he was hanging too far out of the cab, it broke a rule. Please don't post that. It's like I wouldn't even have thought that that would have been okay, you know. So you you get that sort of stuff, but for me it's very much judgment-based based on those safety security type things and things that cause challenges, right? Like if you watch someone actively violate a safety rule, something like that, it's like, okay, we're not gonna do that. You're you know, whether it's your own organizations or perhaps it is a lesser practice, like even getting on and off moving equipment. That's a hot button issue. Yeah. Some railroads allow it, some don't. It's uh in our rule book, we teach everyone how to do it at our museum. It is against the rules, but we teach everyone the proper way so that they can do it right if they have to and in out of emergency or whatever. Um, people don't do it, they follow the rule, but I still, if I film someone and somebody does that, I don't include it in the footage or trim around it because it's like, ooh, that is gonna just cause a fire in the comments, all the stuff, and it's like that doesn't bring positivity. Um, and regrettably, that piece of it is what is challenging about the internet and and is what is my biggest filter is positivity and the outlook. There is a real challenge with making content on in any form that if there's any form of negativity, even if it's just a subtle critique, uh, navigating something like we had a visiting steam engine, it had part of its return spring for the Stevenson Link motion, uh, was way out of adjustment, and the Johnson bar is trying to throw you out the cab wall when without any power being applied, just rolling, and it was, you know, it was surprising. And it's like, have you been in the 70s lately? Joy. Uh we'll have to see. But you know, it's one of those things of I'm not being immediately positive about this. This is something that is not negative, and people will take that and either take their own impression, or they'll, you know, there is no way to be nuanced and critiquing on the internet in some ways. And it's a challenging thing to balance because there are difficult topics that are important to cover, but again, you don't need to breed all the trolls, all the pieces of crap, and get all that negativity and that spiral, and then that affects overall image and all of that.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:54

So maybe because I mean, you know, our former steam inspector here, when it comes down to like the regulation, he was just like, he'd say stuff like, you know, there's the regulation, and then there's your opinion of the regulation. And the opinion of the regulation is gonna be the worst thing for your guys' industry because no one even knows what the regulation really is, because they're so lost in their opinions, and that's what the comment section of anything you put on the internet is is just nothing but opinion.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:23

Yes. Yep. So it comes down to a lot of those things, and then you know, safety and security, you know, like one of the ones that came up in a comment that I had never thought about before and lives rent-free in my head now is don't show keys on the internet, do not have footage of the key because people can match the bidding and then cut a key. Like I would never even think of that, but you know, bad people gonna be bad people, so it's like all right, yep, you know, yeah, gotta prevent all that stuff.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:50

And that's don't even like if you have a uh a key code combination or anything like that. Oh, yeah, you don't even you don't even the sound, they don't get into it with the sound, yep, you know, um your modems and stuff like that. Yeah, don't have a picture of your modem in the background because they will hack your freaking shit.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:06

I've never filmed close to my house, I never film in my neighborhood, you know, any of that sort of stuff, personal identifiers, whatever. And then uh to your point with children, you know, uh previously, like I was like, my girlfriend's never getting shown, you know, family, whatever, people who have not consented, and recently she's been more interested in like, you know, I'm cool with being on the camera or whatever, and it's like okay, but if you've not gotten someone's consent, it's not appropriate to show them to a great, you know, that's that's not a hard one because I do have a lot of I do have a lot of conversations in the industry, and I'm realizing that as I bring them up, even if I'm not mentioning people, I'm like, I don't want people to be scared to talk to me. Yeah, you get that. That's very true.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:47

And that's been a wild one. Okay, it's come up in professional situations. Oh, I saw you mentioned this and it wasn't bad, but here were some more nuance, and I was like, Okay, like just Well, it's just anything you do.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:04

I mean, I've made comments on or even posted and stuff on like Facebook that is not meant in any way, shape, or form to be negative. It's just like, hey, is anybody else having this same crappy experience as me? And the damn comment section becomes a dumpster fire of people going, Well, you're it's an asshole. Have you done this? Have it's like, no, hey, I'm just asking a simple question, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

I mean, yeah, it's so that's that's been wild. I think um, how do you grapple and not so much us? And it it's we try and make it more about the railroad, but I mean, Rowdy, you are a personality, and the reason why a lot of people watch. Yeah, yeah, it's real.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:46

Um the amount of my Discord users that have started watching your shit because I will scrap you down to your axles, whatever the goddamn axle. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:55

I didn't even come up with that. Oh yeah, that isn't honestly cussing out any song. I've heard somebody else say it, and you know, I I didn't even think about saying it on freaking camera. And it was just like, you know, and but then you know, the thought of it was is not it's not about who it's not about who comes with up to the with the idea, it's about who makes it to the patent office first. Right, you know, yep. Yeah, and it's like, oh shit, now I'm gonna be known as the guy that said I was gonna scrap the outcome down those effing axles because it wouldn't start.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

I like and I remember when when Nick Ozirak was here and we had it, you know, because you've used Nick Ozerak to film. We have he's amazing at what he does, and he helped us get our start on some of the YouTube videos, and he came out and some of the like the hey, we're back, right? And I think we went and we had Mexican and Morton as we do, and he was like sitting in the back of the Yukon, and we were in the front, and you were giving him the tour, and then I was repeating the tour, and we're like, well, and up here he's gonna say that there used to be a spurther end of the you know. And I remember Nick just sitting there and he was like this is the gold, you two, and we're we're both like, what? And he's like, you two bickering. Yeah. Uh and that's weird because you like you still want it to be about the railroad, but what is your means to an end?

SPEAKER_08 1:13:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:12

And then um there's a really icky word, it starts with a I and it ends with an influencer.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:21

Um how do you and then we talk about ego in the industry, and then people are gonna look at us all and go, but don't you have an ego because you're putting everything you do on the internet?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:32

Right. Right. Yeah. That's it's so interesting and it's such a challenge, and I it it feels weird to be in this position. Um I started out and I was like, I'm gonna make YouTube videos about this video game soundtrack I made and talk about guitars, and then it turned into trains, and here we are. And now people, you know, people will be like, oh, but you say you're an expert and you say this, and they take intention and will they will warp it into not what my intention was, but what they perceive it as. And it it's so challenging to establish intent, and you can't really communicate that exactly. And so people will take it and run and perceive things very much in the wrong way, which is you know, it's a bummer in the reality because I would like, you know, everyone that watches, I hope they understand why I did something or what I did, but it it is the way it is. And I never intended to have influence or anything. I talked about one of my favorite books the one time a couple years back, when I had like 50,000 subscribers because it was moving for me and it you know, it was in a low port part of my life. I read this book and it like brought my love back from railroading and trains and the narrow gauge and everything. And it was kind of an obscure printed in the 50s, you know, whatever kind of book that had two runs and that was it. It went from $100 a copy on eBay to more than $1,000 on eBay, and it's like, oh, you ruined that. I'm like, I I had no clue I could what you know, that's no.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:51

That's gonna be wild is thinking about our actions and what are the unintended consequences and what are the unintended repercussions and how do I um what do you assume responsibility for?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:04

Right. That is that is so challenging because so you know, so many people will will point the finger at you and be like, oh, you did this or whatever in negative lights, and it's like I didn't know that I have that thing, which again goes back into the try and be positive about most things so that you're not the starting shit fights.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:22

Yeah, the other and unfortunately, the only way sometimes you can really just get a my life in this whole entire thing has just gotten so much better by just sitting back and like we said I should earlier, I just I don't give a free, I just don't care.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:36

Production fact check.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:39

Rowdy gives a Rowdy gives a fuck. You you have to give a certain amount of a fucking this is this is the thing, and this is something that I've realized because working working for the BNSF, working in corporate and everything, and seeing the way that some people go around the world and and get jaded and burnt out and tired, and they just get into a routine and they're soulless people. You have to give a shit and care and put your life and soul into things, but you can't you have to have a barrier such that people then don't tumble it down on the street.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:10

To get into the given up. I just don't give up what people say right now.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:14

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:14

That's where I'm at. It's true. I I I don't read the comments.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:22

Hey, now I get it.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:27

Here you can show this to them.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:30

Um please don't find it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:35

And we'll be right back after a short commercial break.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:39

What are you most proud of?

SPEAKER_05 1:16:41

Oh goodness. In life or on the YouTube or what?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:45

Just do it. I mean, it's you've done a lot, right? I think that um perhaps you are the first foam fluencer.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:53

You know, that that is kind of part of that.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:57

We need to you're not using that already, are you? Uh no. Foam fluencer. You can trademark Mr. Near Cynic Railroad.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:03

Go for it. Yep, do it. Yeah, the trademark office is such a pain in the ass. Go have find a lawyer.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:10

I also affectionately use the term foam face to uh it's some of my industry colleagues that claim they hate trains. Yeah, I call things foam tastic when it's like. A little thanks, foam face. I didn't mean to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:24

Oh, you're so good. On that front, um, real quick, my sister keeps telling me that I need to change my intro from what's up, guys, this is nice, to what's frothy, my foamers. And I said it for one video and everyone died laughing. I was like, oh, that's so cringe, but I just can't I just can't do it. That is that is cringe as far. Yes, uh, thank you, Marian. I don't choose to watch this, but my mom's gonna watch this. So anyway. Uh I'm most proud of, I mean, it I didn't intend for YouTube and media and the thing. Oh, none of that shit. I had no idea that was gonna be what it is. And so I didn't set out with any goal in mind. I just wanted to share stories and then it's come into this own thing. Um, the biggest thing that comes to me is the is the people and the the actual influence that's happened. Um, you know, I have talked to so many people that are like, I'm volunteering because I watch your videos and you made it fun. I I remember going to like the first time, one of the first times it happened, I, you know, was going around California after filming a video a couple years back. Um, and we go took a look at the Santa Margarita Railroad, you know? Right. Okay, they got three-foot gauge and it's neat. And I turn up and chatting with people, and the brakeman, a young woman, is on the back of the train and she's staring at me, being like, huh? And I'm like, why is she looking at me? And I'm not used to all the fame things. She goes, Hey, like me and my boyfriend, this is our first day volunteering, and we're here because of your videos. Please go say hi to my boyfriend. And and you know, I've known them now and we've chatted a bit and seen them at other events, but it's like, oh, I'm I'm causing people to get into the thing that I love, and it's you know, it's amazing. I'm going to Illinois Railway Museum. I I had, I swear to God, 15 of their volunteers come up and be like, hey, I'm here because of you. And it's like, what the wait I had no clue that that was gonna be a thing.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:12

We didn't have that experience of people going, oh, well, we're doing this because of you. When we went to look at the cars in North Carolina, and people were going, hey, yeah, and and there was this like, we're walking because you know they got the back shop there, and it's basically empty because of how big that damn thing is, right? And we're walking around it, and there's like this little clutch of people like shadow following us, and then one finally had the balls to watch it walk up and go, Hey, uh, I watch your YouTube, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I really like what you guys are doing. And that's a little bit of a weird thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:41

It's sometimes it's hard for me to hang on to the positives of it or even to see it. Because like I remember like when I was in high school, everyone thought I was gonna major in music when I went to college, because that's better than that is your passion, and that is what you love. And I was like, I can't turn it into a job.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:56

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:57

Oh, yeah, because then I'll then I'll hate it. And I and I've always made money playing music, but it's it's I don't depend on it, right? Right. And um and now the social media is a little bit like Yeah, I don't want it to sour my love for this industry.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:18

Well, yes, love and hate both.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:21

Yes, yeah, you gotta have those moments where you kind of have something that draws you back. So, like for example, us in the airsoft and the going into the World War II and all that stuff, it's because all of us were like, hey, we just turned our hobby into a job.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:34

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:34

And now we're starting to really get into toxic places because we don't have an outlet, right? Right, and so you know, I just so happened to be cruising around on the internet and found this place that sells World War II airsoft guns. I was like, hey guys, what do you think? And now it's like, you know, there's multiples of us that got uniforms and all that, but we've turned it into a blow office theme.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:57

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:58

And you and you have to have that, and you've got to have that, and then it's just like, you know, all of us were in this really bad place about, I don't know, about a month ago. We were all like just like F this, we're we're done. And you know, to actually get the 70 back out and get back on it and run it and go, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:16

I mean, yesterday there was um a family where and I think a new family's moved in because once upon a time a guy came out came out with a shotgun when I was on the railroad at that spot and told me to get out. So I think it's a new family. Um, but there was a family with a dad and two kids out on the deck and saw them coming out.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:39

Well, that's okay. So the video lap yesterday, the beginning I got yesterday, part of the thing that made it worthwhile for me was yesterday, that gal that sent us the video. And when the train goes by and she didn't cut the camera quick enough. And you hear her daughter go, Mom, you look so happy. She goes, I am happy, I love it, I love seeing it. And then she cut it. And I was like, Oh. Yeah, but all we did was just go by with a flat car and a caboose. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:06

Yeah, but I mean that stuff's cool. And then, you know, it's it's cheesy, but um, you know, like my fourth of July post I posted, like, oh, there'll be grandpa talking about his time on the Milwaukee road. There was a guy, Mike, he's 89, about to be 90, and I swear he looked like he was not a day over 70. Um in Eatonville, who came and was like, What do you guys do? And he's like, I follow everything you do on YouTube, so shout out Mike. Um, and I had a really, really nice talk with him, and he's like, Yeah, I was a logger for 40 years. I worked for Randall's, I, you know, and he was sort of telling me about his background, and he's like, this is really awesome to see. And you're sort of like, oh.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:43

Well, that other family that ran out to Warehouser Road, the the dad went and got the kids and brought the kids up to Warehouser Road to watch us go by, happened to be at Plaza Grocery Shopping, heard the whistle and was like, What? Grocery shopping, ran and got his kids to go watch the train go by.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:59

And there are like there are real things and real connection that happens because of the internet, but the internet's not real. Yeah, you know, and it's like, how do I like I think the first time I messaged you, maybe we we had talked because Nick and you know, right? But then I I had sent you a message, like I didn't have your contact interface or anything. So it's like how do we stay safe? Because we had so many people coming out at the crossings and trying to give rowdy cans of corn in the locomotive. Like, I mean Oh god, and and I I messaged you, and you were like, I mean, we don't really like it's not really um apples the apples situation, it's more apples the oranges just because the territory, the geography can't be.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:41

We don't have a right of way, we are on a one site, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:44

Yeah, and but it was like, how do you do this?

SPEAKER_05 1:23:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:47

Um, and we're making it up as we go, and so are you, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:23:52

That's that's all you can do, really, right? So yeah, there's a lot of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:57

And yeah, and again, and it's like, oh, I just I don't want to the ego and the influencer, and you're you're doing it for a reason and for a mission and for a love of something, but then it becomes a job, and then sometimes it becomes toxic. And how do you like what do you do? And it's it's it's so it always boggles my mind. There are 99 positive comments, and I'm only thinking about the one.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:19

It's one, yeah, every time.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:21

Yeah. Well, it's one of those things where you either end up going, uh either going end up going one or two directions where you just create a wall and you don't let anybody into that, right? Or you try to figure out the opposite of it is how do you live with it and don't let it consume you too, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:38

Yeah, and and stay real, right? Because I think we probably now all have a camera voice. And there are a lot of people that come up to both of us and go, oh shit, you're actually just like you are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:49

And you're like, huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:51

We're weird. Damnest thing. I am who I am.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:54

But but at the same time, um, you know, you turn the volume up to 11 instead of 10.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:02

Right. Yeah. These ones go to 11. But uh, but that that's so real because you if it makes sense. Yes, right. To me, it is um, I just know that, oh, I'm presenting, right? Like it is still 100% me, and being honest and genuine is literally the most important thing in my life. Um, and so you know, people ask, are you like this? Are you that? No, that is just how I am and who I am, and and I it's important to keep that and just know like, oh yeah, okay, we've got cameras rolling, we're making content, like, oh, okay, I'm gonna sit up and be like, okay, yes, we're presenting. I know I'm whatever, blah, blah, blah. And it's not even, it's not more or a caricature. It is just, oh, I am presenting something to you as if I was a professor or whoever, all the things.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:48

And it's like so much of the good shit in my life, right, is related to my job, to the brother that I really didn't want.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:58

I was just gonna say, it wasn't me.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:01

Um a drug yanist. Right, and to having little kids playing with trains at home. And um, my husband doesn't give a shit about trains, which is in so many ways a blessing.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:13

It is great, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:14

Everyone assumes that there is no way anyone could be married to me and not. And uh, that is probably the exact thing.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:21

The crazy thing is, is people think that I really, really like trains. I don't really, really like trains. I like my trains. Yeah, and it's I like some Mount Rainier scenic. Good distinction. Yeah, like I don't like, I mean, people sit back and go, Well, the big boy's like, I don't give a fly about the big boy. I really don't. And when it looked like it was gonna come up here to Portland, people were like, Are you gonna go see it? Fuck no, why don't I go see it? If I want to see it sounds like a crowd, if I want to go see a big boy, I'll go see the one sitting at the park. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:48

And it is the bit like, and then you know, it's like there's a real life outside of here, but it is your life, so it's related. And how do you stay real and transparent and honest while still protecting right?

SPEAKER_05 1:27:00

It's it's a whole it's a whole thing, and it's a challenging balance that I am always still trying to find. Tom Scott recently said on YouTube, like, hey, you have to put a wall up, even if it is just a sheet of glass. Yep. And and honestly, I mean that's kind of the way I take it because it's important because I know how many people I've touched and how many people um, you know, love railroading and and I've rekindled people's interest and all this stuff. And and so I want to have a genuine real conversation with people and interact and respond to everybody, but it's like I I have to remember I am one person and I need to have boundaries myself. Yeah, and it's important.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:34

Like I have someone to go home to who realizes the whole thing is absolutely ridiculous, which is that's important, it's so helpful.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:41

Um I would really like to go home to my same person that has that, but I get off the locomotive and walk into a cab.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:49

Yeah. As uh Leighton's wife would describe it, uh, she says that she likes trains the normal amount.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:57

Uh and that is very apropos to my girlfriend. Like she likes trains the normal, which is just, oh yeah, train, whatever, who cares?

SPEAKER_07 1:28:04

You know, my my significant other is that she she like yesterday, she was really bummed out that she didn't go get to go out and take pictures of us out by Eatonville. Sure, you know, because because the road closure and all that and the time that she was getting off. But if you watched her walking around here, you'd think that she absolutely wanted to light the place on fire. She also does two things can be true.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:24

Yes, these two things can be true. Two things can be true. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:26

So I mean, yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's I think we're I think humans are ultimately we're herd animals, and sometimes we're not particularly good or intelligent herd animals. Oh god, you just lost the light, Jared.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:40

Production!

SPEAKER_02 1:28:42

I could but it's okay, it was blinding me anyway. We're herd animals, right? We're still like internet and AI, it's still all new technology that we don't ultimately have figured out and integrated, and we none of us have boundaries with it, right? Right. Even the mindless scrolling is a lack of a boundary with what's online.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:03

Right. You know what I've actually started doing here with with that?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:06

Oh god, I can't wait for you to tell me that you don't mindlessly scroll and send everyone 50 reels a day.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:12

No, I I actually do, but if you notice that those are between a certain time and a certain time, yes, it is 4 a.m. and midnight. Midnight. Anyway, Randy and I cannot agree on. Anything to watch anymore. Okay. Because, you know, I'm hardcore unless I watch Saving Friend Ryan five times a day. And she has not. And so instead of turning on the TV, I just have started reading a book. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:39

And it's been so we're gonna um we're gonna move on to where other segments. What's the next one? So in the news, in the news, I think we've covered this. Uh big boy merger. Uh we went to Eatonville yesterday, rare mileage, um, and Rowdy is back in our YouTube account. Yes. I just actually comment on the YouTube again. That's what I have uh on. Yay! As Jared says, with the with the uh I scrolled through the entirety of like Trains Magazine, the Google News feed, big boy, big boy, big boy, boy, big boy and murder, big boy, big boy, big boy, big boy, big boy, murder, big boy, Ed Dickens, big boy. Yep. The Ed Dickens thirst traps are the funniest thing I've ever seen. That is hilarious.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:27

Oh Lord, I do not envy poor Ed.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:30

No, there's no amount of money that would you couldn't even, I mean, if Ed were show up and be like, hey, Rowdy, do you want to go for a ride in the cab of the big boy? I would probably say no. Simply because I would be sitting behind one of them just hanging on for dear life, putting out the window, going, we're gonna kill somebody.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:50

Literally. Yeah, yeah. That man has balls of steel. And and I think I cannot think of a better ambassador for class one steam railroading.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:58

He's he's a great dude. He heard it.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:00

Shout out to the city.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:02

To me, I think that he has the has really taken the hole that Doyle McCormick kind of left. I mean, yeah. Doil it in. Doyle it in. If you really want to talk about two big people that were all about, you know, fat.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:17

Doyle and listener questions. What's your hair care routine?

SPEAKER_05 1:31:21

Uh this is so important. Okay, I use um.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:27

I assume it was for you, not me.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:28

Uh, I assume so, yeah. You know, come on. I have more hair than Beth and tucked in this engineer's hat if you don't know what I actually look like.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:35

He's been our rowdies. His is fire shave.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:38

Yes, exactly. Uh I had Chris LaRose make my hat extra tall, so it was often actually literally, but uh shampoo at least twice when I do wash my hair, and you don't wash your hair every day, it's only every other at most, natural things and all that. Um, and I honest to God just steal whatever my girlfriend's shampoo is. Um she's fine with that as long as I replace it, which is great. At that point, you you're not like stealing.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:03

Okay, we got a lot of questions. We get a lot of questions to get it. And then I use conditioner, get separate ones.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:08

Rabbit fire. Um if there's time to get him on the podcast, I think he likes the phone and mixing views and but but remember you don't have your little phone mic on, so you gotta like. Do you want to voluntarily crawl into the smallest firebox we have?

SPEAKER_07 1:32:21

Uh sure, why not?

SPEAKER_05 1:32:22

That sounds funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:24

Uh I will try.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:25

And you can get a picture of my ass hanging out.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:27

I don't even think you're gonna get your shoulders in both orders.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:29

Um Fats Domino or Muddy Waters? Uh yeah, I just I don't have opinions on either.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:36

What? I know, it's weird, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:32:37

Muddy Waters is the answer. Oh, okay. Um, that was how you got that. Oh on the still, but is like talent. What does the Chrissy Grant process look like? What would the process of rebuilding the railroad to Morton look like? We can turn that into a podcast episode. That's not a bad idea. Um it looks like a lot of coffee, a lot of Red Bull, and a lot of phone calls to Rowdy, and then never inviting Rowdy, Rowdy and Toby Van Outworth on a zoom call again.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:03

We only inflated the price tag by about nine million bucks.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:07

Casual. Um a video going through all the rolling stock you had would be good.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:12

For those of us that don't know exactly what you have on site, we could do that for a YouTube. We already got too much. But then you asked for ideas, I noticed you have a tattoo on your arm. What is it of? Does Rowdy have a tattoo? What's the most interesting in it? Um yeah, I have a lot of tattoos. I do not. Rowdy has none.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:28

I also have none.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:29

Um yeah, I got a shit ton of tattoos. Uh this one is a New York Central lantern.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:37

Um it is Al Haywood's lantern.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:44

Al Haywood was a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful teacher at the Adirondack, and the reason I'm still in this industry. Um it's far more about uh him than the effing lantern, although the New York Central Railroad is the superior railroad. You think she has an ad leg finish or a dressful finish? Ad lig.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:03

Ad leg. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:04

Um not a foamer. I just bought a new lantern last week. Uh so what's with some of the guys getting into World War II shenanigans? Again, there is a Venn diagram. Railroads, Titanic, World War II. That Venn diagram is a circle. Um we gonna do a Steam to Victory event? Yeah, we'll we'll plan a World War II event. We've discussed it. Um and Tulson 70 ever meet. Working on it. I did ask Rick Franklin. Under auspicious circumstances.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:44

Yeah. If you want to know, what came right before that is she came out of a place she probably shouldn't have been, right in front of the owner of the car. He didn't stop me going in. And all of us were just like, oh, by the way, Beth and this is Rick Franklin, and she just went, oh shit! It was By the way, you need to bring the tune a Mount Rainier Scenic Railroad.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:06

I figured I had already made enough of an impression I was just gonna shoot my shot. And it was either gonna go well or it wasn't. Um, second bridge fire, yeah, we talked about that. Are we allowed to support Taft since he actually rode the train to Ashford? Yeah, I mean, he wasn't really a noteworthy president, otherwise, other than the bathtub in the White House. I want the what's it like to be a woman in this industry episode? Forget the pulse and fire at Bethan. My mental health can't do it. Literally.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:35

That is the gods honest. I do not envy you.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:39

That that's uh that's a no. Uh no, no go ghostwriter. Patterns fold, do not buzz the tower with that one. Um we'll shoot you down.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:48

You forget more coaches. Yes, they're on the way. We did buy more coaches. What type is the gorgeous whistle whistle? It's an Ashton 3 chime. No, you cannot make a copy of it. Yes. Um, why can't they make a copy of it? It's ours. Because it's ours. We're I don't know. Uh something wrong. Uh then is there we're gonna choose his viable career path, track number four. We've already gone over half that.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:12

Um you're revamping shit here. Uh, I think I got them all. Uh what questions shouldn't be asked? Andy, do you have any questions? I mean Ivan.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:22

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:23

Cool. That wraps up another episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:27

Oh, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:27

That's not my role.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:28

No. I do that on the You want to do the closeout? Uh that's gonna be it for off the rails with Rowdy and Bethan. Uh and also me. Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:43

Well, hello Calvin. How are we doing, my friend? I'm well. Um that was quite a ride. We just finished wrapping episode 18. Um we're just here to do a sponsorship plug because it takes money to make these things to buy the electricity for the lights. Calvin um and I also feed a family on this wage. So uh we would really like it if you have a business. Or you just love the podcast. For like as little as $250, you can sponsor an episode and we'll say something nice about you. Because unlike the talent, um we know how to talk nice to people.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:19

Exactly, exactly. Get your stuff in, even if it's a small business, quick snippet. We'd love to love to get your name out there, love to get some stuff out there for you. Um, you know, you never know unless you try it. So come on, send it over. We'll get you a spot, we'll get you plugged in.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:32

Yeah, go to Mount RainierRailroad.com and uh look us up. And that wraps up this episode of Off the Rails. A huge thank you to our totally real, definitely not made up production crew. Sound design by Microphone, catering by Cornelius Cobb, track maintenance provided by Rusty Switches, and marketing brilliance courtesy of souvenir. I'm your host, reminding you to keep your hands inside the train at all times, because around here, things always go off the rails.