From Pest Control to Bird Control: Building a Business Through Experience, Education & Trust

Guest: Harry from South Jersey Pest Control

Description:

Tom Capps sits down with Harry, a longtime pest control professional and business owner from South Jersey, for the first official guest episode of the Rule the Roost Podcast.

Harry shares how he went from working in restaurants to accidentally finding his way into the pest control industry, eventually building his own company from the ground up. After starting with just himself and a part-time employee in 1992, he grew the business into a team of 38 employees serving customers throughout South Jersey.

In this episode, Tom and Harry talk about what it takes to build a successful service business, why educating customers matters, the challenges of managing employees and vehicles, and how technology is changing the pest control industry.

They also discuss family business, training the next generation, the future of pest control, and some of the wild stories that come with working around insects, wildlife, and Mother Nature.

From hornet nests and bird problems to honesty in business and decades of experience, this conversation highlights what separates a true professional from someone just looking for a quick sale.

Tune in for a great conversation about pest control, entrepreneurship, and the lessons learned from building a business the right way.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hey, hello everybody. Tom Caps here with the Rule the Roost podcast. We have a special guest today. I've been doing business with this guy for a long time. I picked him as our first official guest because I'm tired of being the only guy with really white hair. So I gotta match me. So we always start each podcast with a joke of the day. Alright? So it's a bird joke, which is getting harder and harder to come by. So okay. So why did the chicken not cross the road?

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Because the rooster was on the other side? He was too chicken. Where where did the ant get off at this um from the train? I have no idea. At the infestation.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

There you go, the infestation. All right, I like it. I knew there was a reason we were gonna pick it up. So all right, Harris, so you we've been doing business for quite a few years. Us it's always I you call me, we have a bird problem, we solve the bird problem, we've never really gotten just to sit down and shoot the shit a little bit about what's you know what's up and why. So uh I got into the bird business totally by accident. I was a parking lot sweeper, I kind of fell into it, but you actually ended up being the president of the N M N MPA for a while?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Uh NJ NJ, which is the New Jersey State Association.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

You were a pretty big marketing mug for a while.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

I was on the board for over 20 years. I just um resigned my position um this past year. It was time to get some young blood. Um and in fact, my uh general manager is now on the board taking basically taking my place. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

So how did you get into pest control of all businesses? How did you get pest control?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

No, I uh um I always assumed I was going to be in restaurants. I uh always wanted to own my own restaurant. Really? And um I uh worked in restaurants for about uh uh 16, 18 years, something like that. Um but the restaurants kept on doing something nasty to me. Uh I was in the hospital four different times for exhaustion and stress-related um illnesses. Uh the last time I ended up in a hospital for a month with, and it turned out I had viral hepatitis, which was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

What kind of restaurant was it?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Um that was uh it was that was um a um basically a fast food restaurant in in a mall. Um but uh I just decided that I can't do that anymore. Um so what do I know? Well, if you work in restaurants, you know a little bit about bugs. So that was uh the transition for me in into pest control. I worked for two of the national companies. Um I learned a lot. Um they taught me a lot of what to do. They also taught me a lot of what not to do, um, a lot more uh on that end. Um and I I guess I um I guess some people think I'm arrogant, um, but I was arrogant enough to think that I could do better than they did. And so I started uh my business in 1992. Uh it was myself and a part-timer. Um I now have uh 38 employees, um and we do uh business throughout South Jersey, from Ocean County over to um uh Burlington County and everything south.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

That's awesome. So and I don't know that I would consider that you being arrogant. You have to have some self-confidence in yourself. That's that's what we were just talking about that off the air. We just did another video for some Amazon stuff, and uh and the girl said, you know, when we say when we talk about our products, we we talk about them, but when you talk about them, dad, you really believe in it. And it's not so much it's arrogant, it's just you if I'm gonna say something, it's the truth, and I believe in the truth. If you tell the truth, you never have to lie. So I don't think you're I and you've never come across as arrogant to me. So it's that's a good trait, be self-confident.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Over the course of time, I I've managed to to become an associate certified entomologist as well. Um so um that's a that's a good thing. Um there's an entomological ladder, with the top being like uh doctor with a PhD, and then on down, and the lowest rung is uh that of an associate certified entomologist, but I am on the ladder. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

And see, I'm not even at the base of the ladder, so it's funny. I get to go around and like I'm actually leaving tomorrow to go do a teaching session up in Connecticut, right? I get up and talk to a bunch of pest control service managers about bird control. And I know when I go in front of a group of people that they're way smarter than me. Because they have to know how to kill all different kinds of bugs, what to spray, not to spray, where to spray, how to spray, how often to spray. I don't know any of that stuff. I know how to get rid of birds, and that's it. So I always make it perfectly clear. I said, look, I know about birds, but I know nothing else.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

So that reminds me, I have I have some pictures to show you that we have to figure out how to get the birds from roosting um between uh solar panels and and a wall. Okay. So you know, I'm thinking maybe we could net over the top of it or because you can't get to to the spot where they're where they're roosting.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

That's what's always so fun about Birkinson. It's always these wacky predicaments. That's what I like the best about it.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

That's neat.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

So I know you also have family working for you, right? How what's the family situation like within the business?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Uh my my son um my son started um when he was uh 15, um, and he worked as a termite helper, and my termite treat treater called him Zach of Many Crooked Holes. Um and he progressed, and then uh when he went away to college, he came back and he worked for me for a while, but um he needed to get away from dad.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

That's perfectly normal.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

So he went he went to Chicago for nine years. Wow. Um, and uh he was doing his thing out there, uh, met his wife. Um then when they decided to have children, they realized that free babysitting is worth a whole hell of a lot of money. Uh so they decided to come back. Um he came to work for me, um and then um he left and then he came back, and and uh right now he's my um sales manager and he's doing an outstanding job with that.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

So um takes a while to figure out that dynamic, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

It takes a while, and it you know, it it takes a while to realize that dad actually knows something every once in a while. He went to a uh I made him go to a class that uh it was a two-day class on wood destroying insects. And um at the end of the class there's a test. More than 50% of the people fail the test. Um he went uh he went through the whole thing, he passed the test. He gets gets home and he goes, you know, Dad, this is all stuff you've been telling me for all these years. And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, Well, I I never realized how important it was.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the things you learn, right? Yeah. That's with me, the same thing. I was a parking lot sweeper, knew nothing about birds, and just kind of learned it by doing it and screwing up. So it's easy now to pass along lessons to people because everything they're gonna do wrong, I already did wrong. Yeah, so it's easy to do.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

So and it's easy to do things wrong with birds. Yeah. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

And Mother Nature is Mother Nature's tricky. So, what is your favorite type of pest or animal to deal with if there is such a thing?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

I I used to love to do um uh bald-faced hornets nests.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Okay, why?

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Um it's it's the rush. You you you get a rush. Um when when I started out with one of the national companies, they just give you a little hand duster and a can of spray. And what you'd have to do is go sneak up on it and then hit the the guard that's guarding the opening, um, nail that, and stick the du duster in and whoosh, and then run like hell. That was really the pro that was the that was that was, you know, they well, they didn't want to spend money on on equipment and and whatnot. So um but either it sounds like a young man's game. That uh, you know, well now we we we have uh what's called a dust stick. It's a stick that you put together, it can go up to to 25 feet, uh it's got a uh the dust on the end of it and a and a pump on the bottom, so you can put it in the hole, whack it a few times, and and they're hovering all around the the the dust bowl. So um yeah, that they're the they were always fun. That's I like doing carpenter bees too because like you you get it in in the hole and and there's a carpenter bee in the hole and you're and then it comes out and you hear boom. So I guess it's the thrill of the kill.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

There you go. That's that's that seems to be a common thing with pest control guys. I remember when I was first doing bird work, I actually met up with a uh a woman who was a pest control lady. She looked pretty tough, you know. And we're walking around the building, and I was looking for bird stuff, and she was looking for rodent stuff, and she picked up a uh a trap and she took it and violently shook it. And I said, What are you doing now for in case there was a live one and now I want to kill it? And I was oh my god, this is a different kind of people I'm dealing with there, you know. So after a while, you get to see it's a whole different world, Pascal. It's very interesting. I think what's really cool about it now, and I never knew, is what a good beginning it is for young people. I mean, you get to most uh tell me if I'm wrong, but from what I've heard, is that you can take somebody with a high school diploma and you'd rather teach them your way the right way.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

And you get a good starting salary, you learn a career, and don't have to go to college and spend millions of dollars.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Not only that, you get a company vehicle, you know, with us, we pay for the uniforms, we pay for the the um the cell phone, we pay for all of the equipment that they use. So yeah, it uh you know, we can take people, um and and a lot of times it's people that um are sort of lost a little bit. You know, they don't know where they want to go, and you know, uh and they generally work out real well. I have people, um, I had one guy work for me for over 20 years, he just retired a short time ago. Um my general manager um started out. He was a janitor at um uh a senior center. Um and uh he worked his way up. Real real smart guy.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah, especially now he's you have cost to go to college.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yeah. Well, he actually had gone to college. But this there was no jobs or what I don't know exactly. And he's been with me for 15 years.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah, we have the same thing, a bunch of people with us for a long time. But now this whole AI thing coming along. I think pest control is gonna be impervious to because you still have to have a person going someplace and doing the physical parts of the job, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. There's aspects of it that can be utilized um mainly through in marketing and and things like that. However, um yeah, you you need to physically put eyes on a thing. Although there there are some robotic things uh moving forward, um, in in particular within agriculture, they're utilizing robotic dogs to run through the fields, um and they pick up the various insects that are infesting the uh the thing. Um so they can uh target limited areas where the problem is, and then they just have a drone that comes through and uh dispenses the pesticides in in just in the area that that's that's necessary. So yeah, it's it's um so kids that like um their video games and all, this is this is uh an adult ablic application of a video.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

It's gonna fit right in. Probably for the next generation. I don't know if I'm gonna be flying a drone anywhere soon.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

No, some of my guys do. Yeah. Yeah. We we you utilize drones sometimes uh for for bat work and for bird work and and whatnot. But uh no. Uh I I got mine up ten feet in the air and then I crashed and my my fingers don't work that way.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

So how do you deal with having so many employees in cars driving around New Jersey in different parts of New Jersey? You have a certain set of rules or things you have to follow? Absolutely. That's gotta be every meeting, you have to reiterate that, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Well, we have um uh we have GPSs in the trucks, so I know how fast they're driving, I know if they're idling, and idling is a big thing. What's gas? Over $4 a gallon now. Sure. Um you know, so every gallon of gas you waste idling is is problematic. So if they idle for more than 10 minutes, then then I know about it. Um if they speed, uh and and typically, you know, the I just I'm fairly lenient. If it's over 70 miles an hour, mm, we got a problem. Okay. Um and then we also installed um forward-facing and uh compartment-facing cameras. I was gonna ask you about that. And they've been they've been a godsend.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Especially in case there is an accident. You have proof what's going on, what happened?

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Absolutely. We've had three different instances. One um we were uh my guy, two guys were in an in the vehicle, they were in a Wawa parking lot, and uh a woman came around, she's doing her makeup and talking on the phone, and you could see it with the camera when and she didn't see it. Head-on, total totaled my truck in a Wawa parking lot. And if you didn't have the camera Right, then it would have been a he said, she said. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

So I brought it up because when I do my training thing, sometimes I get there like an hour too early, and I hear what they all discuss and drive a hammer that down all the time. Do you report those results or give those risks to your insurance company, keep the premiums down?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Is that yeah, well, they they have access. With our our techs get um and uh salespeople get a a weekly uh summary score. So, you know, as long as they're in the 90s, we're fine.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

You know, somebody drops down to the 60s, that's remedial, you know, you gotta make sure, then you gotta go out and ride with them, see what's going on. Maybe it's a problem with the with the system. Most of the times it's not. All right.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

So if someone came up to you and said, Harry, I want to start a pest control business. I've been doing it for somebody else for a couple of years. I know a lot of stuff. How do you go about starting a your own pest control company? How hard is it to do in New Jersey?

SPEAKER_00 16:02

It's not necessarily hard to do. Um to be successful at it, you have to find what your niche is. You know, what birds. What are you going but even within in pest control, what what are you going to be um putting out there so that people will know that, hey, this is a good guy for this. Like you've seen my trucks, my logo, it's it's a dog. Why in the world would you have a dog as a logo for pest control? Um yeah, it's it's somewhat subliminal. It tells people that um we are pet friendly, um, that we're concerned about the the the health and welfare of not only their pets, but their kids. Um it draws attention. When my trucks drive down the road, little kids are pointing at the truck all the time and say, Mommy, daddy, look, look, look at the dog. Um good advice. So, you know, uh having a good uh logo is is helpful. Um we have consistently um set up the and and communicated that we're in the business to educate our customers because we feel that if a customer is educated and they understand the what's going on, like what's the biology of that insect? Um, why is it important? What do we need to do? Why do we need to do whatever it is that we're planning on doing, and what's the follow-ups? So if we go through all that with a customer um and then we tell them how much it's going to be, uh a lot of times we'll get the business when the competition goes in and says, see ant, kill ant, $75.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

And I guess it's important too uh for newbies to understand that there's a lot of education out there. Every trade show that we go to, a lot of times we have the uh vendors like me presenting, but the guys are there to go take classes and earn points and all that kind of thing. Out there, right? Especially in New Jersey, from what I can do.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

You you um uh getting your license um and then maintaining your license is important. So yeah, we have uh uh recertification credits that we need to get so many credits over a period of five years. Some of the categories are a little tough uh because they don't always have classes in those categories like uh IPM and schools, which is integrated pest management. Um, you know, you don't want to go nilly-willy spraying pesticides around inside a school. Um, you know, God forbid what the lawsuits would look like for that. Um, you know, so that that's a category, mosquitoes, um, you know, termites, uh there's uh there's all sorts of different categories. There are categories for campgrounds, there's categories for um meat packing plants and industrial situations.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

So it's just never-ending on you can make yourself as smart as you want to be.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

And so you'll never stop learning.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

All right now. So we talked about business. Let's talk about Harry. So, what's with all the bike riding? How'd you get into bike riding?

SPEAKER_00 19:24

I know it's associated with a charity that you're uh I've been doing the I've been doing the MS-150 for over 30 years.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

I started um the first year I did it, I did it on a homemade tandem bicycle that I I refurbished myself. Um I actually got it from a customer's yard. It was just sitting in the yard. It was a racing bike from the 1970s. It was heavy as hell. Um so and I did it with my with my sister. Um my sisters are about 15 years younger than me. So um, and then the following year I did it with my son. My son was 10 years old at the time, and then the year after that I did it with my daughter, who was nine years old. And I realized you've been doing it that long. Um I started it because I I I couldn't run anymore.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Um my knees were were I remember a few years ago you were limping around pretty good on job sites.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Uh well, I've had both knees replaced, I've had both hips replaced, and I've had both shoulders rebuilt. Wow. So the original bionic says it's so healthy, yeah, it's great. So yeah, so the the the bicycle is a good way for me to have a non-impact exercise that that I do. Um and um I I mean I like getting out and uh it's it one of the nicest things is that when I'm out riding, I don't answer my phone. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Like now, yeah, it's you gotta mute it and stick in your pocket or else.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yeah, so um, but uh the the the MS bike ride in in September is from Cherry Hill to Ocean City and back. Um typically you can do different different distances going down. You can do 100 miles down to 25 miles. Um on the way back, it's only it's only one, it's 75 miles. Cool. Um so typically nowadays I just do 75 going down and 75 going back.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

That's all. Jeez.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

So if when my daughter as she got older, um we used to to do she's the only person I've ever had to like grit my teeth and and go, Okay, I'm gonna get through this goddamn thing. I just stick on her butt and follow her. So but uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

We told a joke to begin the session. How about we tell a funny story? What's your funniest story that you can relate to the viewers that's happened to you or that you've seen happen in your years of pest control? There's probably a bunch of them, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:12

I'm trying trying to think of ones, ones that are PG rated. Okay. I figured that would be the biggest problem. Um I was I was doing um a uh bald-faced hornet's nest. It was on the peak of a two-story house. Uh so it was a good 30 feet up. I had it, I had my pole all the way extended. And normally when you're doing this stuff, uh you don't want any distractions because you want to keep your eye on what's going on and whatnot. And I get there and I start doing it, I put it up, and one of my employees at the time pulls up, gets out of the truck, and starts yelling at to me. And he's coming over and yelling, and I and I look over and I'm like hitting the thing, and son of a bitch, one of them hornets came straight down the pole and got me right in the fore ashes. Like, you idiot, what are you doing? Don't you see what I'm doing? That must have hurt a little bit. Yeah, it did, but you know, uh you get stung like once a year. It's not not that big a deal.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Is it worse than getting skunked? Have you ever been skunked?

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Um, I refuse to answer that questions on on the grounds that it could still possibly happen to me. Okay. Fair enough. So the the wildlife technicians, we tell them, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

I just shrunk. We're gonna finish on we're gonna finish on a high note from down here.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

So all right.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

So tell everybody out there why they should hire your company to do pest control. Why are you better than everybody or as good as anybody in the business?

SPEAKER_00 23:49

No, we're better. Okay, there you go. Not at all. Go for it. Because uh, you know, again, we're gonna educate you as to what the situation is, why it's important. And you know what? If it's not important, we're gonna tell you that too. I go into uh uh I've been on numerous uh termite inspections for real estate transfers where you're looking for all kinds of different wood destroying organisms. And I'll go into a farmhouse that was built in in the 1920s or or even earlier, and I'll see powder post beetle holes. Powder post beetles are a wood-destroying organism that gets into the wood, it lays an egg, uh, larvae develops, it goes back and forth through the wood, it could be in the wood anywhere from one to ten years. Then it emerges, it it pupates close to the surface, and the adult emerges and they'll leave little like nail holes. And then you'll sometimes you'll see the frass coming out, which is just fecal matter, because they're ingesting the wood. Um, matter. I like it. So uh there's a whole there's a bunch of different kinds of powder post beetles. Um and one in particular is it's called a liquid powder post beetle. It infests wood that's less than 10 years old. And it infests hardwoods, and typically barn, you know, barns and and farms were made of hardwoods, and they weren't the wood wasn't kilned and things like that. So I'll find the exit holes for that. And I've run across it many times where another pest control outfit has come in and said, You got powder post beetles, we need to either fumigate or we need to do this, it's gonna be, you know, $3,000, it's gonna be $15,000, whatever. And then I get called in for a second opinion, and those beetles haven't been in that wood since your grandpa was a gleam in your great-grandfather's eye. You know, they they only infest wood for the first 10 years, that's the end of it. But obviously, you're still gonna have the the whole yeah, you know, the the evidence of it. So, you know, that happens a lot.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

So I I mean You can't so you can't honesty and experience is everything.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yeah, you know, the the I would rather take care of the person and tell them exactly what's going on. And if they don't need my services, they don't need them. But just you know, remember me the next time you have a problem.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

And I gotta say, we've been working together for how long now? It's always been a pleasure and great. All right, it was always 20 years at least. So happy to have you on the show today. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Uh anything else you want to share with our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 26:42

No, I'm I'm good. Thank you. Cool, awesome. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

All right, great for having you. See you next time, guys. How was the length?

SPEAKER_00 26:51

You were perfect. You you keep you wrapped like a half hour at a time.