Hybrid Coaching Models & Empathetic Sales with Laura Schoenfeld

Are you stuck in the "Insurance vs. Cash Pay" debate? Many health professionals believe they have to choose between volume (insurance) and hustle (cash), but the most sustainable model for 2026 might actually be a hybrid of both.

In this episode, Valerie sits down with Laura Schoenfeld, an RD turned business coach and founder of The Nourished CEO. Laura breaks down exactly how to structure a hybrid private practice that leverages the stability of insurance with the profitability of high-ticket coaching.

We also dive deep into the psychology of sales. If you hate "selling" because it feels pushy or manipulative, Laura’s "Empathetic Sales" approach will change your perspective. You’ll learn why selling "prevention" rarely works for high-ticket offers, how to validate your clients without agitating their pain points, and how to build a business that supports your life as a parent without constant burnout.

In this episode, we cover:

• The Hybrid Model: Why you don't have to choose between insurance and cash (and how to mix them).
• Attract, Convert, Serve: A diagnostic framework to find exactly where your business is stuck.
• Empathetic Sales: How to sell high-ticket offers without feeling "salesy" or aggressive.
• The Prevention Trap: Why selling a "cure" works better than selling "prevention" in the wellness space.
• Mompreneur Realities: What to cut, delegate, and automate when raising a family while scaling a business.

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• The Wellness Vault: Save time on content creation with our all-in-one resource hub for coaches. Start your 7-Day Free Trial
• Watch The Episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/i-Nv6XaarIo

CONNECT WITH LAURA

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lauraschoenfeldrd/

Website: https://lauraschoenfeldrd.com/

CONNECT WITH VALERIE

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/v.feghali/
The Wellness Vault: https://wellnessvault.com/

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro: The Hybrid Nutrition Business Opportunity

01:05 How Valerie and Laura Connected

02:27 From RD to CEO: Laura’s Origin Story

07:34 Defining Success & Avoiding the "Comparison Trap"

18:18 Empathetic Sales: Selling Without Being "Pushy"

23:44 The Wellness Vault Advantage

24:14 The "Attract - Convert - Serve" Framework Explained

31:19The Mompreneur Reality: Cutting The Fat & Prioritizing

41:56 Hybrid Offers: Combining Insurance & Cash Pay

47:34 Rapid Fire Questions

49:07 Connect with Laura Schoenfeld

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Getting to know people at that depth and having the closer relationship with my clients means I don't sell a low ticket. The results somebody gets is what they're paying for, and your unique way of helping them get the results is what you're delivering. So three pieces of your business. If one of them doesn't exist or they're not all lined up to work together, you're not gonna make as much money as you could. And for most people, you really only need joining me today.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

I have Laura Schoenfeld, who is the founder of the Nourished CEO, where she helps health and wellness entrepreneurs scale their businesses with simplicity, strategy, and integrity. Laura is known for her no-fluff approach, which is heart-centered and combines data-backed strategy with deep empathy for the human side of entrepreneurship. She's passionate about helping coaches and experts create businesses that generate consistent revenue without sacrificing their peace, purpose, or presence at home. She's a grounded, down-to-earth woman and mom who wants to help entrepreneurs grow. And she's built an incredible business. So I can't wait for you to hear from her. Welcome in, Laura. I am so excited to have you here. Yeah, thanks for having me, Valerie. So you and I met a couple years back through a friend of a friend, and we ended up doing a workshop together for all of our communities, you and I, and then also two other women. And it was just so fun. I felt like we were providing value without pitching anything, and it just felt natural and fun. And one of the things that I loved about having you on, both this past year and two years ago, is that I feel like you have a bit of a different outlook on it. So kind of when some of us are going in one direction, you're like, wait, wait, wait, let's pull back and let's what about this way, right? What about doing it that way? Which I love because there isn't one right way or direction to go. There's always, there's always a way that will work specifically for that particular person. And so that was one thing that I that I really love about you is that you have um multiple different views on the ways that things can work. And I have also loved seeing you grow a business while having two little babies, right? So you've had two babies since you've been growing your business and still been able to scale and grow while being present at home. And I think that many of our listeners struggle with that. It's a the balance of life and and business and figuring out how to follow their dreams while at the same time, you know, making sure that you're a present parent or family member or wife or whatever it may be. So I'd love to hear your journey about kind of how you started and how you founded the Nurse CEO and now what you're doing today.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Yeah. Well, that would be, I think, like a 15-year timeline at this point. So I will condense it. But basically, when I got into the health and nutrition space, I was coming at it from a very, I mean, it was kind of funny you mentioned being like Laura being the contrarian. That's kind of my MO in life, is like, let me see if I can do things differently than everybody else. So when I got into the nutrition space back in 2011, was when I started my graduate degree at UNC Chapel Hill. I was already coming in with this, like, you know, wanting to buck the system as far as like butter is not bad for you, eggs are not bad for you. And being in a traditional dietetics program, and this was, you know, 14, 15 years ago, that that was kind of new, right? Like new messaging. I know everybody's all like on the whole like saturated fat thing now, but we were talking about this a long time ago. And I knew from the beginning that I wanted to have my own business, that I wanted to, you know, do things my own way and not get into this like job situation where I had to do things the way other people wanted me to do. So I worked for a guy that you probably know, Chris Cresser, I feel like, or maybe you've heard of him. I feel like he's in kind of like the alternative health world, the biohacking space. Like he kind of, you know, just comes up in those conversations sometimes. Um, I started working for him in 2012 as a really like a content specialist where I was helping him with his blog. I was helping him send emails to his list. So, and this was 2012, right? So, like way before most of this stuff was even popular, let alone like, you know, as big as it is now. And I learned so much about how to build an audience, how to create good content. Um, so much of the work I did with him, he was very hands-on as far as like helping me learn how to write better, learn how to communicate better. And so that was a really amazing experience to have working like in his business alongside him while I was in grad school. And then as soon as I came out of grad school, I was like, all right, I'm ready to like work with my own clients. So I had been blogging, podcasting, doing all the things even before I graduated. And so I hit the ground running with my business, um, grew it to six figures the first year, multi-six figures the second year, and had been kind of like pretty steady in that multi-six figure range as a nutritionist. And then in 2020, when everything got crazy and everybody was like, How do you run an online business? Because now I have no choice. I had already been doing it for, you know, behind the scenes and then in front of the scenes for like eight years at that point. So I just looked at it at it as an opportunity. I didn't know what was going on. We were all kind of confused about, you know, is the world gonna be totally different than it ever was before. And so I said, What the heck? I'm gonna teach people how to start their online health business and, you know, have a presence, put content out there, just what I've been doing for the last at that point, eight years. And that was really like on a whim. I launched my NBA program that has since been running for six years. And we had like 40 people in the first round, and then I relaunched it, had my first six-figure launch that I've ever had in a single, you know, open cart period. And so it just kind of took off from there. And over the last six years, I've just been working with lots of different clients, different levels, everything from beginners to people, you know, getting up to like seven figures a year as a health expert and seen all the in-betweens, seen all the ups and downs, gone through all the different industry shifts. And um my own philosophy about running a business has been impacted, but it's also really interesting to see how much of what I was doing in 2012, 2014, you know, all of those early years are really circling back now and becoming something that is relevant to people again. So um a lot of what I focus on with my clients is really understanding the foundational need to have for business. And then as you mentioned before, then deciding, well, how does this work for me? How does this work for my lifestyle? How does this match my personality? How does this match my circumstances? Because if you have like a baby and a toddler like I do, you're not working 40 hours a week unless they're in daycare full-time. So really just helping people use the foundations for what actually matters in their business, and then using the, you know, gut instinct, intuition, like, you know, understanding what you want in your life, using those to make all of the decisions and then being able to create a business that makes you good money and also fits the life you want to have.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

I love that. And even just going back from to the beginning for you, before you were certified and had your degree, working for someone, writing the blogs about health and wellness, right? It's like that alone is something that people don't even realize that they can do. I think a lot of people, because I started my career as a physical therapist, and I get a lot of reach out from PTs and OTs being like, wow, you showed me that there's like, I don't have to stick in this box and work in a clinic and do these things. Like there's other things, there's other options out there. And so I love that you had that experience that then led to this, you know, beautiful transformation of you starting your own online practice and then helping other people do the same. And so I'd love to know from you how do you help your clients define what success really looks like for them and avoid getting stuck in that trap of this is what everybody else is doing, this is what everybody else expects, and kind of building their business around what their idea of success is so that they don't burn out and they don't end up building something that they then resent.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

I feel like right now there's such a trend of people saying stuff is dead, right? Like, oh, so and so shut their podcast down. Podcasting is dead, so and so is not doing that course anymore, courses are dead, blogs are dead, high tickets dead, low tickets dead, like everything's dead. I honestly think nothing's dead, right? Like I'm just like anything can work. And my perspective is that a lot of these things that people are doing to run their business either successfully or unsuccessfully, a lot of times the reason it works or doesn't work has a lot more to do with did it actually align with their personality, their skill sets, their desires, their circumstances, or were they just building something because they saw somebody else was doing it that way? That is something that I have admittedly made that mistake many times in my own life and business, where I was like, well, so-and-so is doing it that way. They're successful, successfully, it's clues. Let me try to do what they're doing. And I didn't necessarily consider, you know, what do I like doing? What am I good at? Where is the value that I bring to my idle clients? Like all of that actually impacts how my business is constructed. So for me personally, I love one-on-one. I don't know if there will ever be a time in my business, no matter how much money I make, how busy I get. I feel like one-on-one for me will always be part of my offer suite in some way, shape, or form because I love it and I'm also really good at it. And there is, again, kind of that feeling of like, well, if you want to scale, it has to be one to many. It has to be, you know, pack a thousand people in a room and just keep growing, growing, growing, bigger, bigger, bigger. And I realized that over the last few years that I like small, I like intimate, I like knowing people's names, I like knowing what their business is, I like knowing what their family life is like, right? Like I like knowing what's going on for people and maybe what some of their unique challenges are because I feel like I can do a better job at serving them when I get to know them like that. Now, that said, getting to know people at that depth and having the closer relationship with my clients means I don't sell low ticket. Cause that is, you know, a lot of people, if they want to do one-on-one, they want to do more of that high touch service, then they pair that with low prices. And that is like a guaranteed mismatch. There's no business owner out there who does well pairing high touch with low ticket, right? So personally, I'm not against low ticket, I'm not against volume businesses. I just personally do not have that desire to have that. And I can look at someone like you who's done quite well with volume low ticket, and it's working great for you, right? So I like to figure out, okay, what do you enjoy doing? What really lights you up? What would you, I mean, I hate to say what would you do if you were working for free? Cause honestly, I don't, I don't know if I'd be doing any of this if it wasn't helping me make money. Like I think I'd be gone on a lot more vacations if I didn't need to think about money at all. But all of that to say, it's like, what do I get excited about in my business? And where do I feel my energy gets elevated when I'm actually working? And for me, a lot of it is things like this interviews, conversations with clients, hot seat coaching in small groups. And for me, that's what I am like now. Okay, how do I create more of that energy in my business? And let me maybe change some things that I had decided to do because somebody else said it was the right thing for my circumstances and let me change back to what I was doing when I was feeling more lit up about it. So unfortunately, a lot of times you have to make mistakes to actually know that this is not what I want to do or this is not how I want to do it. But I think you can be a little uh more advanced planning to think about what do you naturally enjoy? What gets you excited? Why did you get into this work in the first place? Like what actually lights you up about it? Because I think people will just hear these really extreme statements about what's working, what's not, or oh, one-on-one's not scalable, blah, blah, blah. Like it's just none of that's true. And if you love what you're doing, that'll make it like a hundred times more likely to succeed financially than if you're doing something that, you know, your business coach said was the right way to do it, but you are miserable. That was kind of like a long way of saying it, it's just you having fun in your business, everybody can feel it. And, you know, been in business long enough where I know that if I wasn't having fun, I would not be here 14 years later. And sometimes I have to take some detours, but it is something where that has made such an impact on even like the the I know we'll talk about this, like the momming versus the kids, like knowing that I can do the work and actually have fun and be energized. And then when I go to take care of my kids, I'm not like coming off, you know, the computer being a huge ball of stress and being like, oh, I just had to do all this stuff I hated, and now I have to jump straight into childcare. Like being able to feel like my cup as a professional, as an ambitious woman is getting filled, and then I can go, you know, overflow it with like cuddles for my baby. Like that's to me how the balance is even possible.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

And I think so it my point of view on it is that there is a some sacrifice that has to be made. For example, if you love one-on-one, but some people who love one-on-one don't like to sell, right? And you're gonna have to sell high ticket. And selling high ticket does usually mean getting on a sales call or, you know, it's there are certain things that you need to do, especially in the beginning. As your business grows, you potentially could hire somebody to do those calls for you, right? But focusing on like, okay, what's the what's the meat and potatoes? What am I gonna be doing most in my business? And if that's the one-on-one coaching, or that's, you know, for me, it's membership. I love the membership stuff. It's what am I gonna be doing most? How can I really light that up? And then, yeah, I'm gonna have to make some sacrifices on the side here and there or learn some new skills or strategies and get good at things that maybe like I didn't know I could do, but in order to kind of fuel this fire of and eventually hire out a team that hopefully can help with some of the things that you don't love to do.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Well, you know, it's funny with sales calls, like I went through a phase where I was outsourcing a lot of them and you know, it was what it was. It it wasn't unsuccessful. It just I started to feel very disconnected from the people I was working with when I was like, I don't know who these people are that are coming into this program. And, you know, it just for me, and I'm not, I we still do sales calls with my team, but if I'm gonna do one-on-one, the sales calls with me, and I have done enough work to create an internet presence and an ability for people to know what I'm about, what I'm not about. You know, I'm a little bit polarizing. So like people can tell very quickly if they're a good fit for me or not. And the more clear I get on that, the more that people coming into a sales conversation are already like ready to buy. And it's it doesn't even feel like a sales conversation because it's like we're just connecting as people and we're deciding, hey, is this a good fit to work together? Like I literally just sold a$30,000 one-on-one offer to somebody who was like, I listened to your podcast and I was in my car and I was like, oh my gosh, this is the year I'm gonna do that too. And she signed up for a call and like, you know, weeks later was paying a high ticket amount to work with me. So I have found that the more clear you get on who you want to work with, who you're excited about, who you're great at serving, like the again, the things that really bring energy into you and don't feel like, oh, I have to like, I don't know, one-on-one call with somebody. Like if you're excited about serving the person and it lights you up, that can actually then reflect in the sales conversation, as long as you're doing the work to actually show up and be yourself and like actually be clear about what you're looking for in your marketing. Because I think honestly, most people that don't like sales calls, it's because they're trying to sell to somebody that doesn't actually want what they're selling.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

And that's not fun, no matter what how good you are at sales. Or sometimes I feel like they're trying to sell a program that maybe they don't like, right? They like created something. And that's I that's one thing that I feel like you've got to be confident in your program. Like you have to, and it doesn't mean that your program has to be perfect. You know, I sent just sent out an email about this today because yesterday I sent down an email with um a a spelling error in the headline, in the subject line. And I was like, hey, you don't have to be perfect. And that is a point. Like it doesn't mean that your program needs to have all the bells and whistles, that every video needs to be professionally recorded or anything like that. But you do have to be able to provide a result or a transformation for the client and for them to enjoy the journey or the experience. And so I think if you have that, it makes it so much easier to sell it if you're truly proud of your the service that you're offering.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Yeah. I mean, if you love what you're selling and you're excited to deliver it, and you know, I mean, even this most recent client that I sold to, it was a little bit of a stretch for me because I was like, this is a little bit more than I've usually, you know, agreed to or talked about because I made a custom proposal for her. But like there's a little bit of that, like, oh, I can't wait to like dig in and like, you know, go the extra mile with this person. And so even if it's a little outside of your comfort zone, it should be a feeling of like, oh, I'm I'm excited to take this on. And that's where, you know, the price can also help. Cause if you're like, I'm gonna do all this work for somebody and I'm getting paid like half of what I want to get paid, then that's not gonna feel good or exciting. So again, it's like really trying to figure out what needs to exist in the offer, in, you know, the way you're showing up online and the content you're producing so that it feels good to you and it feels exciting. And it's not just like, well, so-and-so told me to use this template to, you know, write my hooks. And now I'm writing content that doesn't even sound like me. And then you're getting clients who think you sound different, and then there's like, you know, this mismatch in the sales conversation, and then you feel like you're pulling teeth to try to get them in. And the whole time you're like, oh, I'm not good at sales. But it's like, no, you're just talking to somebody who had you just expressed your natural way of communicating more effectively, right? You might maybe that person wouldn't have come to you, or they would have been a little bit of a more aligned fit because they would have known what to expect. Right. So totally, yes, there's skills, and I'm not ever gonna say that there aren't things you have to learn how to do, tech, sales skills, you know, posting on Instagram, like all the things that we're not like born knowing how to do. But I always look at if there's a lot of resistance and a lot of like, it feels like you're grinding uphill to do something, it's like, is it because you're just like, I'm not good at sales, or is it like maybe we need to fix your messaging and your offer so that when you're in a sales conversation with someone, you're just like, oh, this is it's like inviting somebody to a party, not like trying to like sell a broken news car to them.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

That makes perfect sense. So when you are in a sales conversation with somebody, or if your client is going into a sales conversation with somebody, are there some specific strategies or techniques or or thought patterns that you suggest that they use?

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Yeah. So I always recommend that there's some sort of pre-qualifying process before somebody is even able to book a call. So many people will put like a book with me kind of link on their website, and then somebody can just get on their calendar and they are in this conversation. The person never knew what your price range was, they're not a good fit for what you do, or they're not even aware of what your actual services are. Maybe they made some assumptions based on your degree. And you're just like opening your calendar up to anyone who wants it. That's not a great, it's not a great strategy for getting good quality, effective sales conversations. So, and I don't know if you can hear my baby screaming, but this is normal in my life. Yeah. So all of that to say, um, with the other parts of the sales process, something that I actually just got off a call with a client 20 minutes ago about this, where she was taught to put a lot of these pain point digging type of questions in her application where it's like things like what how much have you spent on this already? Like, and think about all the different things that you've spent on co-pays and blah, blah, blah. And I'm and I'm looking at this question. And again, she learned it from someone else. So she wasn't doing anything wrong. She was just following instructions. But I was like, you're literally trying to like rub somebody's nose and how many places they've already invested and failed at during an application process. That could make them already in their shame about like, oh my gosh, I already spent all this money, maybe I shouldn't spend more. Or they come into the conversation and they're being motivated by how much pain they're in. And that's not an empowering conversation to have someone, right? I'm not saying you can't talk about the pain. I'm not saying that you have to like spiritually bypass people. But if your sales process is designed to like nail somebody in their gut to be like, oh, look how bad your life is right now. And let me just like twist the knife harder. Nobody is gonna like that, right? You're not gonna enjoy it. That's not, you know, especially if you're in the health space, you didn't get into health to like make somebody feel terrible about their problem. I really feel like a lot of the sales conversation and sales lead up, which again, even the questions that go into your application, should be focused on what do they want? Like, what would be, like, what would your life look like if you didn't have this problem? What would this make possible? What, you know, how would this change your life? And having that part of the sales conversation as well, which I think a lot of people I work with, they're so used to really trying to find the problems for people that they either accidentally or like they're uncomfortable about talking about like what's this gonna do for you? But that kind of sales conversation is a lot more fun for everybody involved. It's a lot more effective too. So being able to really speak to, you know, what's driving them to invest, driving them to work with you, driving them to sign up, driving them to get help that is exciting and positive. And making sure that your application, your messaging, your marketing is all around filtering for the person who is already motivated. They don't need to be like, you know, rub their nose in it to make them actually want what you have. And they have like they have goals, they have dreams, they have desires that are on the other side of the transformation that your offer provides. I will say a lot of the people I work with are very nervous about, they say, I don't want to promise that they're gonna get a result, right? I don't want to guarantee. And none of this is about guaranteeing results. Nobody, if you're a coach, expert, consultant, you can never guarantee a result. Even if you were literally spoon feeding them at their house, you can't guarantee that it's gonna give. Them the result. But you can speak to the fact that the process and the strategies and the tools and the ways that you're going to support them is with that goal in mind and is, you know, the way that you know to reach that goal is somebody who's an expert. That to me is totally different than guaranteeing an outcome. And so if people are buying a result, that is what they're paying for, they're not paying for your time. Sure, you're a lovely person, but they're not paying because they just want to like hang out with you. They're paying because they think your service is going to help them get an outcome. And we can speak to that in an ethical way without lying about what we're capable of or making false promises. But I really think so many people are so afraid to not be able to deliver on an outcome that they just like avoid talking about it and then they wonder why people are like, oh, I don't know. I have to think about it. I'm not sure if this is for me. So that's another piece of it as well. If you've been taught to like just like make people feel like garbage about themselves to try to make them buy something, or if you've been afraid to claim publicly what your services are designed to help people accomplish, either of those things can hurt sales and it can make sales feel a lot grosser than a sales conversation where it's like, let's get excited about what your life could look like once you have this result.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

I think that makes a lot of sense. So you have to understand the person's problems. You have to know what they're going through, but you have to empathize with it, right? And empathy is different than yeah, drilling in on what their problems are and re, you know, reminding them over and over again rather than showing them the outcome. Which, yeah, like you said, that's what they're paying for. They're paying for the outcome of what you're providing. And so you do have to talk about that. You can't just beat around the bush on what it exactly is they're coming to you for. Hey, sorry to interrupt, but if you are a health or wellness professional and you haven't yet checked out the wellness vault, you're missing out. The wellness vault is a content hub for coaches who create their own plans and programs for their clients, run workshops, create digital guides, and so much more. You can now do all of this in a fraction of the time so you can focus on your clients and grow your business faster than ever with more U time. The link to the Wellness Vault is in the show notes. So go sign up for your free trial today. So tell us a little bit about your, you have a specific like attract, convert, serve system. What is that?

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Yeah, so and we are making some big changes to my business in general. So I'm practicing what I preach with uh how we serve our clients, what we talk about. But ultimately, when I was talking before about there being some business basics that doesn't really get impacted by technology or the economy or anything, it's pretty standard. You need these things with the attract convert serve framework, you have to have at least one functional, I call it a system, but it's really just something that exists that is part of that part of your business. So for attract, it's how are you getting in front of people who could be clients? Generally, a lot of people are doing content, maybe they're doing social media, maybe they're doing a podcast, but there's got to be a way that people can discover you. I have clients that they pay to be on certain um registries or or directories, and it's like that's a big source of attraction for them, right? So um, we run Facebook ads for some of our clients. I know you're a big uh fan of ads. So the attract strategy does not have to be Instagram, does not have to be ads. It's just how are you getting consistently in front of potential clients in a way that is actually attracting them to you and is reflecting what you do, what makes you different, why they would be a good fit to work with you. You know, a lot of that has to do with messaging, but it also has to do with like literally just being visible. So that piece is really important. Convert is how are you selling? There's so many different ways to sell. I typically recommend for new business owners to start, especially for you know a higher touch service, sales calls are a great place to learn what are your clients looking for? What do they get excited about? Like a lot of the messaging can come from sales calls. If you're selling something low-ticket, you know,$37 membership, I do not recommend doing sales calls for those. But depending on what you're selling, there's going to be different ways that you get leads and make sales. And so having some, again, a system could literally just be an effective application in a sales call, but that's like your main point of conversion for getting clients. And then service is literally just what are they paying for? And it could be one-on-one, it could be a group program, it could be a membership, it could be a course. One of my favorite types of offers right now is a hybrid offer where there's like a little bit of one-on-one combined with some scalable deliverables. So you can really get that best of both worlds experience where there's you're not just selling your time, but you're also able to customize and support people, which is like people really appreciate nowadays with just the way that uh they've been a little coursed out from things that are all DIY. So, all of that to say, the way that you serve somebody and how you facilitate a transformation, because again, like we've been saying, the results somebody gets is what they're paying for. And your unique way of helping them get the results is what you're delivering. So just knowing, you know, what are you actually delivering? What does that look like? How, you know, if it's a program that they're working directly with you, how long are they working with you for? What are the different ways that they can get support? What are the steps that they're gonna take? What are the resources and tools you're providing? And then what is the price, right? Because again, if it's a very high-touch offer, you're gonna price it differently than something that is a course or a, you know, a membership with templates or something, right? They're gonna be very different price points. And there isn't some perfect price that just is like it works for everybody. So those three pieces of your business, if one of them doesn't exist or they're not all lined up to work together, you're not gonna make as much money as you could. And for most people, you really only need one or two pieces of each to have a six, even seven-figure business. Like I know plenty of people who do seven figures on one thing that they're selling, right? And so I think people think they have to have all this complexity. So they like add 15 different offers and they have like three different sales funnels and they're on 18 different platforms. And what really is a better way to approach it for most people is picking a couple things, maybe one, maybe two, maybe three, if you're really ambitious, of each of those categories and getting really good at it and committing to it and making sure it is aligned with your way of preferring to serve people, your way of preferring to create content, to, you know, demonstrate your expertise and getting consistent and skilled at that, and you know, making sure you're paying attention to the efficacy of it. So you can continue to build that over time. And that might be the only thing you need to do in your business to make great money, to have the lifestyle you want, and to not have to be working your face off to get the money that you want to make. So that's again, when we think about business foundations, if you have those three things and they work together and they're optimized, you will most likely make money in your business.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Yeah. And I like the simplicity of that because, like you said, we're not chasing the golden care. Every every time something new comes out, right? People are trying to grasp for it. And sometimes it's like, well, wait a second, why are we ditching what you already started on? And maybe what hasn't worked yet. And what I see people do too often is that they tried this and it didn't work the first time. And so they're like, okay, well, let's move on to the next thing where it's like, well, wait, well, why didn't it work? Let's break that down first. Maybe there was an issue with the leads, maybe there was an issue with the quality, right? Maybe whatever it may be. But it's like you got to kind of fix that first. And then having that nice, simple, you know, three-part framework that you built out is a beautiful way of thinking of it because it just it makes it so much simple. It's more simple to understand. Okay, we're attracting people and we're converting them and then we're delivering. And it's just, yeah, I love that. I love that. It's beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

I mean, it's funny because people will be like, oh, webinars don't work anymore. And I'm like, well, bad webinars don't work. They don't have a joke webinar that's like, you know, a late night uh uh infomercial, then yeah, that's not gonna work super well. But I have clients that are selling three thousand dollar group programs off the back of a webinar without sales calls, even. So webinars done well work extremely well. And I think to your point, like people they try something, it doesn't work, and they blame the strategy itself versus like looking at the bigger picture to say, well, do you know who your Adele client is? Are you effectively speaking to the things they care about? Are you putting this out in front of the right people? Like there's so many different things that affect whether something works as a sales mechanism. And it's rarely that there's some, you know, it just won't work no matter who's doing it or how they're doing it, right? And so um, I do think the sales mechanism needs to match what you're selling. You're again, you're not gonna have an application sales call process for a membership that is low ticket, but you can have a very effective sales process that gets those sales without, you know, having to have 15 different touch points for somebody where, well, we're sending you a DM, we're voice noting you, we're, you know, sending you a pigeon, like all the different ways to sell to somebody. Like it doesn't have to be that complicated.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

Totally. I 100% agree. So since you've had kids, I'd love to know what kind of new systems you've had to build into your business or levers that you felt were like, wow, I didn't realize that I like should really pull this lever in my business in order to maximize my time and still be able to grow and scale and maintain, you know, your level of um professionalism.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

So honestly, I think for me a lot of it's more around cutting stuff because I'm a bit of a maximalist. Like I'm just like, before I had kids, I I mean, I love working. So for better or worse, I can get a little bit overly excited and do all these things and like build all this stuff and just do the most, right? And so when I had my first child, that got, you know, a bit of a rude awakening to be like, nope, not doing that anymore. And at that time I had a mastermind I was running, and I had to pull that off of my offer list because I had three off three major offers. They were all group programs, and it was very high touch, right? And so I had to pull that offer out of my suite. And then when I got pregnant with my second, who's now just about a year old, I that was another wall I hit. I was like, I'm pregnant with a toddler. I cannot be so heavily involved with my clients in so many different ways and in multiple different programs, talking about multiple different things. Just the level of complexity was not going to work for that new circumstance of my life. So when I had my, I was pregnant, and then when I had my second daughter, I narrowed it down to one, one offer, right? And so we were running that for the last year. And then over the last year, I realized that even with one offer, if I'm trying to solve too many problems for too many people within one offer, it's causing the same problem that, you know, having multiple offers was causing just maybe not quite so much of a problem, but it's still a problem. So even now, like my baby still is like breastfeeding, still getting up once a night to nurse. So I'm not like fully out of the, you know, the craziness, but I'm starting to get to a place where I'm like, all right, you know, we might have a third kid, TBD. Um, I need to create an offer suite that has much more contained boundaries and much more a clear scope of practice. So I'm not just like, I will do anything for anybody because why not? I can do it, right? So really getting much more clear about what is the offer for, what are we doing, what are we not doing, who's qualified to come into this offer, who's not qualified, getting a lot more um strict and clear about that. And really just creating a lot more boundaries around the offer itself and who is invited in. Because I think for me, my whatever it's bad habit, I don't know if we would call it that, but it's like, I feel like I can help anyone with anything, right? I'm like, I've been around this business block for so long. I've worked with beginners all the way up to, you know, seven-figure entrepreneurs. And it's like, I just got this idea that I could just help people with so many things. And even though that's technically true, what that created was just this monster of a program for me to deliver and this situation where I was like, I am just constantly putting out energy. And this is kind of coming back to the whole personality energy question where my energy type, I need to go and burst and then take breaks. And when you have kids, there is no burst and break, right? It's like, other than, you know, my husband watches them, he's out with my baby right now. Yes, I get micro breaks, but I don't get to be like, I'm gonna parent for a week and then I'm gonna have a week off, right? Right. Knowing that and knowing that I have this like constant energy output with my family, I had to really re-evaluate the way I was working in my business and being constantly on for selling, constantly on for delivering, having this like revolving door experience of Evergreen where people are coming in, going out, they're saying, Well, what's next? And I'm like, I don't have anything next. Sorry, like this is the only thing I have right now. Like it just started to become this thing where I just felt like the energy was just constantly going out and I wasn't getting the opportunity to like fill my cup back. So for me, you know, business model-wise, that evergreen rolling admission, anyone can join at any time. I mean, we have limits on how many people can join at once, but it's not like open, close cart. That was what I was kind of like, I don't want to say told, but modeled was like the better way to do it as a mom. And it took me like three years to realize, oh, actually, this doesn't work for me as a mom because I don't want to be on all the time. I don't want to be putting output literally every week, sales calls every week. You know, I want to be like big burst of energy and then lay on the couch for a bit, right? So that's another thing that we're actually returning to the cohort model now this year because I love the, you know, we're all in this together, we're coming in, we're doing it, and then I'm chilling out for a bit. And so that's an example of, you know, when people say something's dead, not dead, evergreen works, cohorts work, they're not dead. But for me, I knew that I needed to feel like my energy was being contained appropriately. And I wanted to be on the journey with my clients and not just like, oh, somebody came in and I'm like, where'd they go? Are they still here? Like, I don't know. And so that that's something that I feel like having two kids really drew my attention to because there is no, there's there really isn't much downtime when you have two. When you have one and they're napping, you're like, oh, this is like because like whenever my toddler's not here, I'm like, oh my God, one baby is so easy. And so when we just have the baby, it's like she sleeps half the day. And so having the two of them when it's like there's almost always a child awake, I just never have that opportunity to rest when I'm not working as much as I'd like to. So I really had to look at the business and be like, okay, I need to build much more rest into my current business. And this whole evergreen always on is not it. So, and this is not advice. This is not me saying this is what anyone should do in their business. It's just the kind of things I think about when I'm thinking about, okay, what's an appropriate structure for a business model and knowing what is like your own personal needs is a really important place to, I don't want to only just say start because again, you might discover as time goes on certain things that you didn't realize you needed. But if you know you're the kind of person who does not want to be like on calls all day, then having a purely one-on-one insurance-based based business may not be the right fit, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:53

So and it is so important. Our energy is what fuels our ability to continue on, right? To continue on with the business. And so I wholeheartedly agree with that. And also I see honestly, I see being a parent or being busy or whatever it else you're doing in your life as being an advantage because then you're forced to look at the business strategically and say, I can only spend my time on the things that are pushing us forward. And I cannot spend my time on low-leverage tasks. And so it forces you to really restructure the business and say, like, this thing that we added on, this thing that we're doing, it really isn't changing the bottom line or doing much for us from an energy perspective. So let's go ahead and cut it, right? Let's just take that out completely. And then also forces you to build in some operations and systems, right? There were when I first started my business, I was just like really, I mean, messy. I I am not an organized person to begin with. And so, and then I was just going after everything. And so everything was everywhere. I had no systems in place, no SOPs, you know, no strategy around really what I was doing. And when, you know, it got to a point where I was like, okay, now I have X amount of clients and I'm draining from my own family life and taking from my family life to meet with these people, it it made me rethink, okay, how do I, how can I structure this in a way that is going to maximize my ability to serve my clients, make more revenue, grow the business, but then also feel like I can come home and like you said, have the energy to be with my kids and feel like I did a job well done and not feel like, oh my gosh, everything I'm doing is burning up, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Well, and it's funny because I think a lot of times people can get very busy because they're avoiding doing the things that are scary, right? It's like they don't want to show up on social media. So they're like, I'm just gonna like dabble in Canva right now for the next two hours or something. And and listen, I love Canva, so no shade for Canva, but um, but it's like when you have kids and it's like, well, I could be like changing graphics in Canva or I could be like making memories with my children, right? I'm not gonna be doing the stuff that's not really that important for the business. So so I think for me, like given that I love one-on-one, a lot of it was like raising my rates to a level that some people think is insane. Like some people are like, oh my gosh, you charge a thousand an hour for your consulting, consulting. And I'm like, yes, I do, because I literally can only take a few consultant consulting calls a week. And you know, the math has to math, right? I'm not gonna be like skipping out on making memories with my kids because I'm grinding away at like, you know,$200 an hour sessions when my work is worth five times that at least. So I like to talk about money because I think women like need to hear this from other women where it's like, you can charge these these amounts and it's okay, right? And so for me, a lot of it was like everything had to make sense. So it had to be a client I was excited about. I don't work with people just because they pay like want to pay me. I'm like, no, we need to be an aligned fit. I've said no to plenty of people that I'm just like, eh, that's not that's not what I want to be doing. The amount of money has to make sense, and then the boundaries around how the client is served has to make sense. And luckily, I have amazing one-on-one clients who are very happy to, you know, make that work for them. A lot of them are moms, so they get it and they don't want to be like talking nonstop during the week. And so, so I think just like knowing what's important to you and realizing you can probably do whatever you want as long as you're just clear about what it is that you want, that's what has to be created. And I don't think there's any, there's no business model that's uniquely better for moms. But I do think moms, especially with younger kids, like your energy is so just for a variety of reasons, it's a hot commodity. And like whatever you're doing in your business either has to give you energy or be somewhat energetically neutral. If it is just draining the life out of you, it's not worth it, even if it's one of the main ways you make money.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

I agree. So, can you talk to us a little bit? We or you brought this up with the hybrid um insurance models. I just want to touch upon it because I think that some people could benefit from it that don't know what that is all about. Yeah. What exactly is the hybrid and how do they do it?

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Yeah. So a hybrid can be a lot of different things, but generally, my definition of a hybrid is you're combining face-to-face one-on-one services with some sort of deliverable that's not face-to-face. The reason that's applicable in an insurance model is because for most healthcare experts, insurance only covers your face-to-face time. So I work with a lot of dietitians, for example. In dietetics, you get paid when you're literally like doing this with a client. If you're doing research, if you're sending messages, if you're putting together a protocol or something behind the scenes, insurance is not paying for any of that. So when you sell a hybrid offer, you're basically putting a dollar value on everything that you're doing outside of those sessions for the person that actually helped them get better results. So you spending time being available for messaging, that can help somebody get better results than if that if they have to wait two weeks to have another appointment with you. You having a portal with videos that go through a particular process that helps them implement things that you talked about in your in your conversations, that is value because I don't know about you, but if I have an hour-long appointment with somebody, what are the odds that I'm going to remember everything we talked about and be able to just go do it? Right. So if it's like, hey, go watch that video, go do this worksheet, come back, we'll talk about it. People can slow down, they can re-watch things, they can, like if you have a transcript, they can read it. People learn in different ways, and you can actually help transfer the knowledge and help them get the transformation more effectively than if all you're doing is one on one. So those offers can be extremely valuable to the ideal client, and they don't require you to be only charging for your face to face time. So if you have a hybrid offer, whether your insurance partially covered or if you're fully cash, you can make a lot more. Money with fewer clients than if you everything was like, I'm only getting paid for my face-to-face time. So I have clients that they do both. So they have an insurance, they have insurance contracts, but they also take cash for people who either don't have insurance or not contracted with the ones that they're in network with. So they might have like a two, three thousand dollar program that when somebody can apply their insurance, maybe it's a$900 program. And so that, like the person's getting a$3,000 program for$900, that feels like this huge value for the person, which it is, but you're still getting the full value of the program because you're getting paid from the insurance company and from the cash. So it is something where you can have way fewer clients, they can get better results. You don't have to have as many sessions. You have that like cash flow from the cash portion as well. You can serve people that are not just insurance. Cause I know a lot of like I know we got out of insurance this year. Like there's a lot of people that have dropped their insurance. And now you don't have to just take in people's insurance. And it gives you so much flexibility with your business while also it is a bit of a competitive advantage if you can sell a$3,000 program for$900, right? Like it just is, it's easier to sell.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

And I wonder too, even like having like an add-on service. So like having your insurance, so it's say like this is the program we meet once a week or whatever. But if you want to also add on this additional texting and meal planning and whatever it may be on the side for X amount of dollars, like I am like all as a client, that's amazing because it's like I've met with dietitians before and I'll just get like the you know, bi-monthly or whatever sessions. And it's kind of like, well, wait a second, I have so many questions in between, or like, no one's checking my food log. You know, it's just kind of like the time goes by and before you know it, the six sessions are over and nothing happened. And so I think, yeah, having that add-on service, or you know, no matter how you position it, whether it's an add-on service or a discount to the service that's that you're providing, as a client, that is huge. That's so attractive. I like that idea.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah. And I will say, from a sales perspective, I have found that selling it as your main offer altogether can work better because a lot of times, like you're probably like me, where you're like, I will spend whatever money I need to get the best possible experience. Some people are a little bit more, well, do I really need it? Is it like really worth the add-on? So they might be a little bit more like, eh, I don't really need the messaging, and then they don't pay for it, even though they really would have benefited from it. So usually my preference, and again, this is just a preference, you can do it however you want. Um, my preference is to package it all as like a service that then insurance covers part of it so that people don't have to decide, do I want this, do I not, do I pay for it? Like you, as the provider have decided this is the best way for me to serve you. And that doesn't mean you couldn't say if somebody says no, that okay, well, we can just do the sessions if like that's what you want. That's fine, you know. But this is my this is how I typically serve my clients. It just gives less of this, like I don't know, just people can sometimes get a little bit in their heads about should I really spend money on that? Do I really need it? Versus you come very confidently to say this is the the service I provide to help you get this result. They're like, great, I'm in, sounds awesome. And then, you know, they're just in it and they don't have to decide, do I want the texting? Do I not? Like it's just part of what you've included.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

That makes sense. That makes sense. All right, let's do a quick round of rapid fire to close it out. So you ready? I will I um I'm notoriously very challenged at these, but yes, I will do it. Yeah, yeah. You have to limit your explanations here. No, I'm just kidding. Okay. So the first thing is what's one piece of advice you wish every health or wellness expert heard before they start their business.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

Oh, you're really starting with the hard ones here. Um, one piece of advice uh is that your business coach's personality is not a business model. Okay. So just be oh, I was just gonna say, okay, a little explanation. Just because I'm sorry, just because something works for somebody does not mean that is the way to do it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

Okay. A book you're loving and reading right now or recently read.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

Oh gosh. Honestly, the only book I really read right now is the Bible. I did not read right now. It's terrible. I'm doing a lot of chatting with Quad about lots of interesting things, but no books at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Claude, Claude is the book right now. Okay. All right, and the Bible. Okay. A business tool you cannot live without.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Ah, business tool. I really like Help Scout for email because it allows I have a team member that reads or manages most of my email, and we got a ton of email, so I don't have to read that much email, which is very nice for me.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

I'm gonna have to look into that one. I don't know about that one. Okay. One thing you do every morning that sets your day up for success.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

Eat breakfast. I mean, literally just need to get food in, and that's that's a good day for me in the morning with the kids. If listeners want to go deeper with you, where should they find you? Um, so I have my website, which I have a blog and a podcast I've been basically doing for 15 years now. So lots of content to go through at uh laurashoenfeldrd.com. And then my Instagram handle is Laura Schoenfeld RD. Uh, I've been a little bit more active on threads lately, but those two are connected, so you'll be able to find me over there for social interaction in general.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Okay, we will post those links in the show notes. Thank you so much, Laura, for coming on. This was fun. Yeah, thank you, Valerie. I hope you enjoyed our conversation from today. Any links we discussed will be in the show notes below. Also, we would be incredibly grateful if you would leave us a five star review. This helps us keep the podcast going so that we can continue to provide value for all of you. I hope we see you on the next one.