Fuel The Flow

7-Figure Clinic, But is it Truly Making Money? ft. Lauryn Brunclik

• Valerie Feghali • Season 1 • Episode 30

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Clinic profit margins often tell a completely different story than your revenue dashboard. You can build a massive 7-figure practice, work yourself to the bone, and still take home absolutely nothing. In this episode of the Fuel The Flow Podcast, Valerie Feghali sits down with Dr. Lauryn Brunclik, a healthcare entrepreneur who built a highly successful, seven-figure chiropractic practice, only to realize her financial foundation was crumbling underneath her.

Generating high revenue doesn't automatically equal wealth, especially when you are stuck operating like a technician instead of stepping into the role of a true CEO. This conversation breaks down how to transition from simply trading your time for dollars to building scalable systems that actually create freedom. If you want to know how to increase clinic profit margins without completely walking away from the profession you built, the answer lies in restructuring your operations. We explore the "one identity trap," why waiting until 65 for financial independence is a flawed strategy, and how hiring medical virtual assistants can help you reclaim your time. Tune in to learn why building a personal brand is the ultimate leverage for healthcare professionals and how to use the Enneagram for better team management.


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⭐ MEET OUR GUEST

Dr. Lauryn Brunclik is a healthcare entrepreneur and creator of the Rich Doc movement, helping clinicians build ownership over their time, income, and future.

Find more from Lauryn here: https://drlaurynb.com/ | 

IG: https://www.instagram.com/drlaurynb/

RESOURCES MENTIONED

DETAILED CHAPTERS

  • 00:00:00 - Reality of a 7-Figure Clinic: Why high revenue doesn't always equal high profit or personal freedom.
  • 00:01:43 - Escaping the Time-for-Money Trap: How to stop operating like a technician and step into the CEO role.
  • 00:08:15 - Fast Fixes for Better Margins: Immediate strategies to identify hidden expenses and stop draining your cash flow.
  • 00:12:22 - True Profit vs. Expense: How to evaluate if a business expense is actually bringing you a return on investment.
  • 00:15:06 - Under-Spender vs. Over-Spender: Identifying your financial blind spots and habits as a clinic owner.
  • 00:19:10 - Creating True Wealth: Moving beyond the daily grind to build long-term financial independence.
  • 00:22:06 - Diversifying Investments: Exploring wealth-building vehicles and strategies outside of your primary practice.
  • 00:24:54 - Building a Personal Brand: Why your online authority is your most valuable asset as a healthcare professional.
  • 00:32:06 - Elevate with Wellness Vault: Streamline your coaching content and client delivery today.
  • 00:36:01 - Enneagram Team Leadership: Using personality frameworks to manage, communicate with, and empower your staff.
  • 01:00:38 - Connect with Lauryn: Where to find more resources and connect directly with Dr. Lauryn Brunclik.

⭐ ABOU

SPEAKER_01

So we have to kind of realize that everybody's wealthy life looks different, right? The personal brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. When people think of you, what do they think of? And the fact of the matter is, is whether you are building your personal brand or not, people are forming that opinion.

SPEAKER_02

Businesses that people want to see have a personal brand the most are doctors and clinicians.

SPEAKER_01

I realize like I was not making very much money at all. Our profit margins were absolutely garbage. What am I doing? Kind of that wake up moment where you're like, what the hell? Remember that wake up moment for me.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. Welcome back to another episode of Fuel the Flow. Today I'm excited because I have Dr. Lauren Brunclick on with me, who's someone I met at a mastermind, and she is so much fun. She's a wealth of knowledge on how to build true wealth in your business and not just trade time for money and lead to burnout. We're also going to be talking about some fun things such as the Enneogram and how to use this to lead in your business. Dr. Lauren Brunclick is a healthcare entrepreneur and the creator of the Rich Doc movement, helping clinicians build more ownership over their time, income, and future. After building a seven-figure cash practice in a small Midwest town, she began teaching healthcare providers how to systematize operations, strengthen their cash flow, and expand income beyond patient hours without walking away from the profession they worked so hard to build. She's the host of She Slays the Day podcast and the creator of programs that help doctors turn their authority into scalable income and long-term assets. So let's go ahead and dive in. Lauren, I'm so excited to have you here. Honestly, I'm just excited to talk to you again. It's been a little bit. It's always fun when you have like somebody that you already know. You're like, yay. Much easier, much easier. I know all about what you do. So I would love to know for you, and I know our listeners would love to know how you help clinic owners go move from just trading time for money and really start to think about how they're going to build in true wealth into their business and what some of those mistakes are that people make in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Starting just right out of the way. We're just gonna go like a lobball easy one. Sure, sure. Um so I've been a clinic owner owner for 15 years. Okay. And so my story is very similar to a lot of like physical therapists, chiropractors, dentists, um, veterinarians, where you know, you kind of felt called into a profession. And then yet school didn't include any of that. No schooling on running a business. And so you feel called into healthcare, you get into healthcare, you're running a business. And some you were usually before the seven-year itch, um, sometimes it starts happening as soon as like three years in, you start to kind of feel just like, that that's it. There's gotta be, there's more to this that I'm missing, right? And so, like this whole idea of feeling called then starts, and then like you start to feel disappointed because this is like what you were called to, but did I get myself a sent? Yeah. What did I do? Basically, like nobody told me it was gonna be this hard. Why what do you mean? You know, we go through all these phases of like, oh, I don't sell, like, right? Because you shouldn't have to sell healthcare and you like have employees now that you're managing, and you're like, when did I sign up to be the CEO? And so my story really followed this very normal journey. Um, we I came out, never questioned that this is what I was gonna do. I was gonna help people, and we were gonna get to that seven-figure cash clinic. And so we just like charged at it for the first five years, six years of practice, and got to this point where we got to what was supposed to be this mountaintop of success. And um, I realized like I was not making very much money at all. Our profit margins were absolutely garbage. I had a team of people that I resented because we didn't like I wasn't basically, I wasn't empowering them, I wasn't leveraging what they could do. Um, and I just was like, what am I doing? Like nobody, you know, it's just kind of that wake up moment where you're like, what the hell? I remember that wake up moment for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so since then, I've learned that kind of this process that healthcare providers go through is um disenchantment. Okay. So, and it's I really feel like it's such an emotional thing for healthcare because it's like it's this moment of guilt. And it's and a lot of times it's not a moment. It's like this is like a year, two year long period where you're like, what's wrong with me? Like this should be enough for me. Am I greedy? And a lot of times, as in healthcare, we don't talk about wealth building at all. You know, it's very gatekeeped behind. Like, if we talk about that in the same sentence as patients, then patients are gonna think that you went into this for the wrong reasons. And if you went into healthcare for the right reasons, you wouldn't need to talk about money. And so it was kind of this whole cluster huck of like, how do we unwind from this current situation? You know, I wanted to essentially burn it all down and start over. We didn't, but we started to slowly, just slowly build out through systems, through improving profits, through improving cash flow. And then ultimately, as I started to get time and freedom back from the clinic, I could, I was able to like breathe for a second. You know, a lot of a lot of CEOs, they haven't breathed for a minute, right? Like we're like out there like helping people function at their best and we're dysfunctioning from fight or flight.

SPEAKER_02

Well, yeah, it's almost like they don't feel like they have time to build in those systems yet. Without those systems, they don't have time to do anything, right?

SPEAKER_01

They know that will help them, but they're just too overwhelmed to stop for a moment to build those in. Um, and so then once we start, once I started to have that time freedom and cash flow starting to improve, then we started to associate in um in just like smart circles around wealth, around like, okay, now what do we do with this extra cash flow? So we started to get involved in diversifying income streams. Then that started to give even more peace of mind, where it was like, oh my gosh, now if we have a down quarter at the clinic, it's not that big of a deal. Like it's okay because our real estate is floating us, our crypto is floating us, my online personal brand is floating us. And so then everything just kind of started to snowball in a great way. The more time freedom, the more financial freedom we got, the smarter we got on like leveraging that. And um, and so now it was kind of like once you kind of got out of the hole, you're like, oh, this is a common thing that everybody, you kind of seem like graduating and marching down the same pit you were going. And you're like, hold on, hold on, let me help you.

SPEAKER_02

I remember when I first started my business, I called my mentor previously. Uh, you know, I'm a trained as a physical therapist and he's owns a clinic as a PT. And I called him and I wanted to talk business. And though I respect him so much as a clinician, I realized in the moment that, oh, this cannot be my business mentor. Because one of the first things he said to me was, here's the thing. If you want to make a lot of money, you know, wellness, PT, owning a PT clinic or getting into healthcare is really not the right path. And I was like, wait a second. And in my gut, I didn't believe that. I was like, I do actually feel like I can have both. I do feel like that I can help people and at the same time, you know, have a profitable business. And so in that moment, I needed to take a step away. So I've had those moments where it's kind of like, wait a second.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I had you think about it. I had a mentor that said, um, as you make more money, it'll be a privilege to pay more taxes. And I was like, no, thank you. Wait a second. This is not the tech strategy that I am going for. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I think we're gonna pull back on this. So tell us, what are some of the low-hanging fruit for clinicians who are in the grind? They feel like, yes, I have the patients, my schedule is filling up, but what are some things that they can do in order to increase their profit margins right off the bat?

SPEAKER_01

So, first you have to actually understand how to calculate a profit margin. Like, and this is a big thing where it's like so much of what I teach is very, very tactical. I'm not naturally a mindset person, but I realize the more I work with docs, the more I have to be like, oh, hey, it's okay that you don't know this. Yeah, you went to a different school than I did, but I your curriculum didn't have this in it either. Like, I have to remind people that like while we were doing undergrad and we were just doing science class after science class after there was an entire building on your campus that was all business for four years. There's people who just did business class after business class. Yeah. And we're just like, oh, I don't know. So it's like step one is you have to figure out how to calculate like what a profit margin is. In theory, it's very simple, right? It is um what you're bringing in and what you're spending and the delta between those two. Yeah. Okay. And if you're not profitable as a business, you know, then you really just are you're gonna be living on very thin margins, very thin margins. And this is where docs and clinic owners really get themselves into the weeds. When you don't have profit margins, you are just one um, you know, furnace away from breaking, or, you know, like all of these things. If you have to go on a vacation and close the clin, or like if you want to go want to go on vacation and you have to close the clinic for a week, you're probably like you don't, you can't do that. So people who kind of feel like they're one step away from not being able to make payroll, this is because they're living on razor thin profit margins. So understanding how to calculate is just step one. Okay. And this is, I mean, it's gonna be a little different depending on the model, but like you don't need to overthink this. This is looking at what do you spend in a month? Include your salary in there, please. Yep. Um, and then what do you bring in in a month? Okay. Like that difference is your profit margin. And everybody then wants to know, like, well, what's a healthy profit margin? It depends on the size of the clinic that you're running. You know, if you've got a team of 15 people and you're still holding on to 20% profit margins, including your salary, like that's probably pretty darn good. You know, if you're a solopreneur and it's just like you and some technology or, you know, whatever, and you're doing like 60% profit margins, like, yep, that's also probably appropriate. I have yet to meet someone who's been able to hold on to like over 50% profit margins and then actually get the time freedom. Right. Like those are the people who are like, well, I don't want to bring on another doc because I'm gonna have to pay them.

SPEAKER_02

And you're like, Yeah, you're buying your time, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So that's that's really step one is just understanding what is your current profit margins. And then from there, it's simple. There's only two ways to in to improve a profit margin decrease expenses or increase revenue. Okay. While keeping expenses fixed. So with that because that's what a lot of people go into is as they improve increase revenue, like they're like, well, now we need to move into a bigger building. And well, now we need another doctor, and now we need this. And so like they'll look back, and this was a big part of my creep of like how I got to seven figures. Yeah. And it was like, I mean, we were at like 5% profit margin because we just kept spending more money to get to revenue. Yep. So you have to increase revenue while holding expenses steady.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. And I know from experience that when you build a business, you do get more expenses as you go along. And sometimes things get forgotten about. I know I'm guilty about that, that it's like, oh, I've held on to that membership for five years and I've never used it, right? So some of these things that we we build and we build and we build, and then we realize like, how do we know that what we're paying for in our expenses is giving us a return or it's something that we need to cut?

SPEAKER_01

So the fact of the matter is, is like you're probably not gonna increase your profit margins by like decreasing your paper spend, right? Like it, you're probably not gonna get it there. I think that in general, two of the most over-leveraged areas are technology now, especially in the last year and a half, where it's like you're paying for this app that sends text reminders, and then you're paying for this app that like does retention, and then you're paying for this thing that is your EHR, and then you're paying for this that does your like incorporates AI into your soap notes. And so like the technology spend is probably the number one area that you're gonna feel that like that quick win. That quick win is just the technology spend of like, okay, what is every subscription that you have, you know, get and here's the deal is a lot of us, if we if you've been in practice a while, so like my EHR is constantly trying to improve. And so they're bringing in like they want to be the umbrella for everybody. And so my EHR, there are things that it now does in 2026 that it didn't do in 2024 or 20, you know, 2020. Right. And so getting a current list, even of all of the features that something you're paying for actually does, and then it's just, I mean, what I would do is I would load them into spreadsheet. I would load the spreadsheet into AI, and then I would have AI tell me, you know, where is the crossover and what can I eliminate? You know, and then again, like you said, it's that annoying thing of like, oh, but now I have to figure out how to switch over. And it's like, well, yeah, but if that saves you$250 a month and that's, you know,$3,000 a year, I mean, that the that stuff kind of does add up.

SPEAKER_02

Something to think about. And then there's the other side of entrepreneurship where people are not spending enough, right? Because, like you said, they don't want to hire that person because maybe it's gonna reduce their profit margin slightly. But maybe that person could be bringing in an extra$500,000 a year, right? So when you calculate the profit margin, that would actually give you more profits, even though the profit margin is lower, right?

SPEAKER_01

And so Yeah, I mean, a lot of times I've seen docs like super glorify that they're gonna bring on another doc and it's gonna make them all this money. And it's like, maybe. Yeah. Maybe maybe.

SPEAKER_02

Right. So with that though, where do you feel like, okay, there's a there's a that fine line between like we need to slash expenses and make our profit margins higher versus like we need we actually need these tools because it gives us to invest the time, right? To in order to focus our energy on things that are moving the needle. Where do you feel like most people lie? Are they underspenders, overspenders?

SPEAKER_01

Well, most people are definitely overspenders. So the other one besides technology is payroll bloat. And that is that's a harder one for people to get a quick win. If I have somebody who has less profit margin, it's because of payroll bloat, right? Like it's or they're or their rent, like type of thing. So it's like it's either rent, tech, or payroll bloat. And so with payroll bloat, this is where it's you have a ton of employees. And it may not feel like a ton, it may feel like the right amount of employees. And so this is where you kind of start again. How I would solve this in 2024 is a very different thing than 2026. You know, now in 2026, like having a virtual assistant that you can pay$6 an hour and is extremely professional, doesn't miss a day of work, like all that, and isn't being enticed by like, oh, but over on this side of town, they'll give me$5 more an hour and I don't have to work for I like, you know, so a VA is a super amazing option. Also, with AI, like a lot of the stuff is like, oh, well, that should be automated. That no longer needs to be. Um, you know, I'm a big fan of employing humans, but I want every human on my payroll to only be doing the maximum of what they are qualified to do. Meaning, I do not want their plate full with meaningless work that can be kind of downgraded to tech, like to AI or outsourced to a VA. If I'm gonna, because I'm sure everybody is in a similar situation where hiring great staff is not cheap anymore. Absolutely. It's really, really not. And keeping them, keeping them is even more expensive. Yep. And so it's like, okay, well, if I'm gonna basically have to pay$50,000 for a really great receptionist, then that reception is not just answering the phone. An AI agent can do that. The reception is not calling on declined cards, a VA can do that. That person is hooking people up to therapies, is like doing truly the things marketing out in the community. They are truly doing the things that only they can do, an in-person employee can do. And so it's figuring out like, are you you should be able to look at every single one of your employees and they should have specific responsibilities, associated metrics, not good things of like how many patients did you make smile today? No, like what percentage of new patient phone calls did you get on the schedule? Yep. 50%, 70%, like you know, and they should have a very concrete metric that goes with their performance. Then when you can do that, you can go like, okay, well, she is being paid 50,000, but she has a 70% new patient like conversion, new patient phone call conversion. Whereas like our previous one was only 60%. If every new patient is average a$3,000 care plan, you can do that math. I'm not gonna do it live because I'm terrible at like I need calculators' math, but like you can do that math and go, this employee is generating at many tens of thousands of dollars because of their skill set. Yes. So like that's where you need to get to to like feel that confidence.

SPEAKER_02

And I think a lot of business owners forget that there needs to be like a reason for every single thing that they do. I mean, it's as simple as that. That again, your metrics need to make sense. They need to be applicable to the bottom line. And so, talk to us too about so someone who is bringing in pretty good money and they're getting good profit margins, how can they then turn that into true wealth, not just profit margins, but really build a wealthy life?

SPEAKER_01

So we have to kind of realize that everybody's wealthy life looks different, right? So for we have to go like, what does a rich life look like for you? So for me, I am still in clinic 10 hours a week. Um, I'm seeing patients eight hours of that. Otherwise, I'm kind of like just having meetings, seeing employees the other two hours. Um, I travel about 10 to 12 weeks a year. I don't go like I do miss my kids after school stuff a lot of times, but like it's you know, that's okay. Like my husband and I have a lot of like travel together. So like we've kind of figured out this. I have the online business. So that's what this balance is really looks like for me. And there's an income that's associated with that. So we it's kind of that like time freedom plus financial freedom. Now, if time freedom wasn't as important to me, if I was talking to someone who was like, well, I don't want to work only 10 hours in my clinic, I would work 30 hours in my clinic. Um, that would be amazing if I only worked 30 hours in my clinic and I really don't need to travel. My kids have all these sports on the weekends anyways, like we can't really do that. But I might go, like, okay, do you want to be in a situation where you could retire at 45? Like if you're you're just gonna work and not spend a ton of money, like if that's their balance, then for them, it's like, okay, this is how you might want to spend your prime earning years so that when you get to 45, you don't have to keep working because you have created so much passive income through real estate and other diversified streams. Um, so like for that person, you know, you may have, although I may have somebody who has, you know, kids that are really in sports and they don't want to miss a single basketball game. And so for them, they need to be done by three o'clock, eight to three, like this or that. And for them, feeling like they can be in healthcare and still get a lot of the like stay-at-home parent benefits of like being there for their children, for them, that might be a rich life. So it's like hard because it really depends on like is somebody equal parts time freedom, money freedom, does somebody more money freedom? Is somebody more time freedom? Kind of figuring out where you land on that is is important. Otherwise, you're gonna start chasing someone else's dream. That makes total sense.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So figuring out what's my why? Why am I doing that? Why do I need money? Why do I need work? Right. And then figuring out, okay, with the extra money, what do we do with it? So then you talked about too, you invest in real estate. Are there other strong investments that you make that you feel clinic owners who do have that extra income should be making?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I mean, again, so where you invest is really gonna be dependent on your risk tolerance. So that is like, I hate to say, like, it depends, but it really does depend on your risk tolerance. So for instance, we are also like we love crypto. It's only a portion of our portfolio. We are not like like overly invested in it, but like we safely feel. I was watching this Dave Ramsey quote and he was talking about a boat. And he said, like, before you buy a boat, you should have all the money that that boat would cost and be comfortable with putting in the middle of your living room and lighting it on fire and it doesn't affect you. Wow. Okay. I mean, I guess it's like gonna own a boat. No one, right? I was like, I sir, I don't think that he has a very different opinion on uh time freedom, right? Like for me, I I'm a I'm a I like being on a boat. So like a rich life without a boat is not is not a rich life. But what I think he means by that is like crypto's pretty volatile. And I mean, anybody who's in crypto knows, like, holy cow, we just had a very, very dramatic month. Very, very dramatic month. But I turned 40 this year, my husband turns 42. I think he turns 42 in like two weeks. And you know, we believe that at the end of the day, we don't believe it's gonna go to zero. But if it did, that's not like it was kind of house money. It was like, all right, that's okay. Okay. Um, so we like crypto. There's lots of different types of real estate. So anybody who says that real estate is passive, um, you know, there are forms of passive real estate, but a lot of times, you know, you're losing some of that profit margin if you're paying some, like if you have like a property manager or whatever, you know, Airbnb's not passive, you know. So oh yeah, but there are passive forms, you know, you can be um, you know, there's lot there are passive forms, but the return just won't be as much, right? And so when whether you're investing in whole life or real estate, so one of the big things that I, it's not a passive income, but like I reinvest my time into building an online brand. Yes. And so, like that for me is probably the number one investment that is going to be the game changer. Yep. Um, you know, it's bringing in an additional seven figures every year. So it's like that's fun. Yeah. Um, and and it just brings me joy. Yeah. Because my personality likes dabbling in things.

SPEAKER_02

So we were, and we were just talking about this a little bit before we started recording, but we were talking about how we were at a mastermind together not too long ago, and Rory Vaden came, who is an expert in you know, building a personal brand. And one of the things that he said that definitely clicked with me, and I'm sure you probably heard it too, Lauren, was that businesses that people want to see have a personal brand the most are doctors and clinicians.

SPEAKER_01

61%. Because 61% of people care that their doctor has a personal brand.

SPEAKER_02

Because it's a profession where you need to build trust, where people need to trust you. And the more trust that's needed, the more a personal brand can benefit that business. So you do a lot of that work, I know, with your clients. So can you talk a little bit about your perspective on personal brand, how you think it can help clinicians grow and make more wealth?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I've actually just recently started switching from talking to doctors about personal brand to online authority. Okay. I have found so between us, there I mean the same thing.

SPEAKER_02

But yes, I know what you mean because a lot of clinicians don't even know what a personal brand is, right? They can't even connect with that.

SPEAKER_01

They get all weird. They get all weird and they're like, oh, I don't want to be an influencer. It's like all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right. So the fact of the matter is, and like Jasmine Starr says this, right? Like a personal brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. When people think of you, what do they think of? And the fact of the matter is, is whether you are building your personal brand or not, people are forming that opinion or they're not even thinking of you. But if you want to be thought of in, let's say, you know, if you're in physical therapy and your state association is thinking of the best physical therapist in the state, if you want to be thought of, you need a personal brand. If in your community you want, you know, to be thought of as one of the most innovative businesses, you need, in order for them to think of you, you need that personal brand. So, like if you're totally okay with not being thought of at all, and this is like again, you know, if you're a chiropractor and it's like when somebody hurts their back, if you want to be thought of, like so a lot of people be like, oh no, I don't want to be on stage. And it's like, but do you want to be thought of? Right.

SPEAKER_02

And I think that's another common misconception is that people think personal brand is like only if you have an online business, only if you want a really widespread reach. But the truth is that it's it works just as well if people probably better for local businesses too, right? Like I know that the gym I go to, for example, has a very strong personal brand. And it's so engaging to see that content. You feel like you know the coaches better. Like there's so much value in building that because you get to really know not only the business owner, but their employees too. Like you just feel comfortable in that setting. And again, you think of that person when you're going to make a recommendation to someone.

SPEAKER_01

Now, this is where it does get sticky. This is like a really uh, we're getting into the weeds a little bit here, but I'm here for it. Um so a personal brand for your brick and mortar can bite you in the butt. Okay, tell us about it. It really, really can. So a lot of docs think like we they people have all sorts of mindset stuff around personal brand. Like, who am I? I don't even know what I would talk about. They don't want to niche down. Um, they think people are gonna judge them. So we have all sorts of stuff. And um, the fact of the matter is, is like your community and your patients think it's cool. Like they think it is cool. And it is like this has been proven again. 61% want their doc to have a personal brand. And they go, like, my doctor makes reels. Yeah, my doctor's on TikTok. Now, and everybody's like, oh, not all the time. Okay, yeah, nobody, nobody's looking to be inauthentic online, right? Like, you're not making a personal brand if it's not authentic to you. So, like how you would show up in clinic is how you would show up online. Um, we're not talking about OnlyFans stuff here, right? Like, no, no patients are gonna be proud. Like, my doc's on OnlyFans. I don't know. Oh, there might be some it depends. It depends on your avatar that you are attracting in. But, anyways, in general, like your patients think it's really, really cool, almost now to a fault. So if your goal, you know, a lot of times people might start with their personal brand to bring in more business to the clinic. And then it starts working. And then they're like, Okay, cool. Or click, we've hired a doctor, I've hired two doctors, and now I'm gonna like start taking more vacation, but your front desk is like, um, everybody, like 80% of our patients that call want to see you, and they only want to see you. I can see that. And so then all of a sudden it's like, shoot, it's because they want to see that doc. The other docs don't have a personal brand. Yeah. Well, this it becomes an issue when you want to start having freedom. So it can, it can be an issue. Um, building a personal brand on your brick and mortar page and kind of forcing your employees to also like your other doctors, is really, really important. Kind of like you're talking with the gym, that was the gym account. Right. Like that was the brick and mortar and it had multiple coaches on there. Yep. And that works. But if it was only, if instead of it being, you know, CrossFit Gym with five coaches, instead of it was like Mark Smith was like the primary brand you're watching, well, you'd want to go to Mark. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Do you find though that sometimes? So I'm just trying to think because there's been several people actually late in the past year or two that I've worked with because they have a personal brand and I'm like, oh my gosh, they do this thing. And I'm like, so cool. So sign up for it or apply to work for them. And then 90% of the time, it's not actually with them, it's with their team, right? But it still got me to go there, get on the page, meet with someone. I'm like, okay, well, if they trust them, then I should trust them too.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, right. And that's not to say you can't have systems around it, but it's definitely like an issue that you will run into. You have to have a plan. So, like, I would, you know, you it's just a problem that will need to be solved or prevented, um, type of thing. But like, yeah, and that's also we're both in this world. So we know, we understand scaling. We understand that, like, you know, when I went to Rory Baden's thing, I wasn't working with Rory Baden. I was working with one of his coaches, like, right? Like that would be ludicrous that the CEO was still doing that. Yeah. But our patients don't feel that way. That makes sense. Like, patients don't understand scaling businesses. They don't understand that you're the CEO. You created a personal brand as a doctor. And a lot of times in the medical system, you get to pick your doctor. Like, you get to pick which doctor you go to. So again, it's it is, it's unavoidable, but that doesn't mean it's not fixable.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. Hey, sorry to interrupt, but if you are a health or wellness professional and you haven't yet checked out the wellness vault, you're missing out. The wellness vault is a content hub for coaches who create their own plans and programs for their clients, run workshops, create digital guides, and so much more. You can now do all of this in a fraction of the time so you can focus on your clients and grow your business faster than ever with more UTime. The link to the Wellness Fall is in the show notes. So go sign up for your free trial today. So I want to switch gears a little bit because I know how much you love to talk about the Enneogram. And we haven't talked about that at all on the show yet. Yeah. So I would really like to talk about the Enneogram, which for people who aren't listening, can you tell us what that is?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay. So an Enneo, the Enneogram, it's um a personality framework. So it's your, if you know your Enneagram number, it's you're either a one through nine. And it explains why you do what you do. So not just what you do, it's really about what are your core motivations, your core fears, um, and the coping strategies that you have developed to feel safe, loved, and valuable. So, like I love personality tests.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, in uh, you know, so like human design you could do on your child, right? Like the moment your child is born, you can run their human design and you know they're gonna be a Manny Jenny. I usually don't, although I do have an 11 and 13 year old and I have suspicions as to what they are. Typically, I don't trust someone's like Enneagram number until they've kind of gotten into their first like job. Like, really, it's something that have you always been it? No, not necessarily. Like it's it's kind of a nurture type thing. I'm sure nature's a little part of it. Um, but really it's it's an adult thing. Now, once you have become a formative adult, you don't tend to switch. Okay. If you really make a switch, you were probably, I'll just use the term like misdiagnosed for this. A lot of people misdiagnose themselves, the wrong thing. And that's why I don't even like to use it. I will use this as a team building exercise, but not a hiring exercise.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So it is incredibly helpful from a team perspective when you understand what each of the nine are. Um, and I can kind of like run through them if you want, but like that's how we use it. I use it because I once you find and you're like, oh, that is me. Yep, it's it's not meant to, it's not like I'm a Libra. So, you know, Libras be Libraing. It's like, no, it's to show you where you're strong, but to not like put you in a box. This is a phrase they use a lot. It's not to put you in a box, it's to show you the box to grow out of. Okay. So it gets really, really complicated because there is so much growth focused in this. So like you can be one number, but under stress, you act more like a different number. And under healthy behavior, a more mature version of you will act as a different number. So if you, for instance, like 30 somethings and 40 somethings are the easiest, like 25 to 45 are the easiest to spot. Okay. Um, because they're just like they're raw, them, and it's like, hmm, you're cute. Now, when you start talking to like a 50-year-old or, you know, or just a more mature person, like a person who's done therapy, is doing the work to be a better leader, they're gonna really um be harder to figure out because as a healthy version, like the healthier you get, you start to become like the best of all things. Got it. But you're at your core, always the same thing.

SPEAKER_02

So speaking of, because I know, you know, I've done the enneagram tests a few times, and we were talking about this at the mastermind, is I I'm like a little unsure what I am. So how when you say like the misdiagnose, yeah, being misdiagnosed, how what's the right way to go about kind of so some are a lot easier.

SPEAKER_01

Um, some the some are, but like at the end of the day, there's kind of two ways really understanding the flaws of every single one of the nine. So that's one thing to read, like, oh, when this person is healthy, this is how they are. And maybe it will just go through it quick and you'll kind of see the same. But what'll happen is is like when you call out the negative parts of one and it like hits you, and you're like, oh my God, that is me. You're probably pretty close, type of thing. So that's kind of um, and then at the end of the day, there's amazing books on this. Like mine, I knew pretty much right away. It's very I have one of the more easier ones to spot, whereas my husband has one of the trickiest ones to spot. Okay. Okay. Can you tell us about yourself? Yeah. So so I'm a three. Um, and Enneagram three is the so, like I said, it's a one through nine. None of them are the best. Okay. None of them are the best, none of them are the worst. And they kind of all like picture of like in a circle. If you look up like the Enneagram wheel, you're gonna see an infographic that will kind of really explain what I see or what I'm explaining. Okay, but we'll start with three. Threes are very extroverted. Okay, they are often called the achiever, the performer, the entertainer. They love the limelight. They want attention, they want to be admired. Their core motivation is to be admired. So have you ever taken like the strength finder test? I haven't, no. Okay. So that's another one. There's like, like I said, I love these things, but Enneagram is my favorite. So it's like third, the strength finder test is like 36 different strengths and they're all in order. I think I am like scored like 35 out of 36 on empathy. Oh. Like I'm terrible. Um, so don't go to the wine if you want, like, yeah. No, no. Number one was significance, where it was just like, I just need to be significant. Threes believe that success is equal to their worth in life. Okay. So as far as strengths, they are driven, they are adaptable, they are the entrepreneur that you see. They're the ones on the podcast. They're, you know, they're like, okay, like they're the celebrity, they're confident. Yeah. Um, they are incredibly vain, they are image conscious, they are workaholics and um possibly emotionally detached. Okay. Like I said, empathy. Possibly, possibly. Right. Right. So, like the three is they they tend to be easy. Like you read it and you're like, oh yeah, I'm vain as f. I want everybody to look at me. I want all the attention. I'm a three. Okay. That was pretty easy. Now, a nine is what my husband is. And a nine is now there's all my God, I wish we had like three hours. So there's also, I can often help figure out what somebody is based on who they're married to. So, like, if Valerie, if you didn't know what you were, but you knew what your husband was, it would actually help because we tend to see, and this has to do with the relationship of, like I said, so a three um will under when they're their best self is gonna function a little more like a six. Okay. But when they're their worst self, they're gonna function like a nine. And so all of the numbers kind of have this thing where under their best self, they're this. Well, it's not uncommon that they you tend to marry somebody that kind of is in that. Okay. So a three and a nine, yeah, very commonly married. Very commonly married. So it's like, I a lot of the women in our masterminds are threes. Yes. Yes. Um, and like you, and this is why we could like all talk about our husbands. We're like, what? No way, my husband's the exact same way. And it's like, yeah, we all married a bunch of nines because it's that like that yin-yang energy that's happening in the in the universe, right? So it's it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. So he's a nine, and nines are the peacemaker. Okay. They like if I made my husband pick what was we were where we were going for dinner, he would be like, burgers. What do you mean? Unless you don't want burgers. Like he could not be happy. He could not be happy going out for burgers if he knew I was not happy about burgers. Yeah, okay. Like he could, like, he'd be like, I don't need burgers. I need you happy, type of thing. Yes. Um, so nines, they just want to avoid conflict. They love to maintain peace. They keep the nines tend to merge to keep that environment calm. They are steady, they are accepting, they are diplomatic, they can handle an alpha female. This is fantastic. She will make all the choices for me. But where they they are often, if they're an animal, they are called the slough. Oh, wow. They will procrastinate. Oh, yeah. This is where it's like, this is where, like, if you really want to know, it's like, oh, let's talk about the worst part. Yeah. Right. So they um can be incredibly indecisive, self-forgetting, procrastinate, like lazy. Like that's that can also be a night. That's like their so because they um because they conform so much to their environment, they can be really, really hard to type. Okay. Or like figure out their number. So like they're one of the ones that when somebody's like, I just can't figure it out. Every time I take the test, it's a little different. Like, da-da-da-da-da. And it's like, okay, interesting. You, you, yeah, you could be a nine.

SPEAKER_02

I know. For a second I thought I was like, maybe I'm a nine. And then you said a sloth. And I'm like, no, I'm definitely not a sloth. Nope, not there. I can't be a nine. No. Okay. Tell us more about the other, the other ones. Let's go one.

SPEAKER_01

So we'll start at one. So one is like the perfectionist. Um, they there is a right way to do it in things in life, and it is their way. Our type A like these are, they are incredibly like in their integrity. It is good to be right. It is like this is like a lot of times they get labeled as like the clean freaks, but like again, you can just like you don't have to love the limelight and you can still be an Enneagram 3, you can have a messy house and still be a one. But it's just that like everything has a place and they kind of carry that perfectionism into everywhere. They tend to be pretty good at details too. So, like if you're hiring and you end up finding you have a one, the only thing is, is they can be kind of stubborn, right? Like, because like I said, there's a right way and a wrong way, and their way is usually the right way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Which depending on the position, could be a good thing, right? So yeah, it's like it's good to know this stuff to place people where in your business where it's going to best suit business growth.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. So they're very disciplined, very ethical, but um, they, I don't know what it's like to live in an Enneagram one's head anytime that I've been talking to someone. So they're incredibly self-critical and self-resentful, and also resentful of other, yeah. Um, they'll hold a grudge. They will hold a grudge. But when I ask somebody, uh Enneagram one, I'll be like, so do you feel like you're more critically critical of yourself than anybody else? You can see they like die a little bit. They're like, oh yeah, you have no idea. And I'm like, oh my God, are you okay? Like, like the ones they like know, they're like, oh, I am my worst enemy of like as as much as I am. Critiquing and everybody else, it is 100 X inside.

SPEAKER_02

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01

So ones, like again, there's a right way, there's an order, they're great at SOPs, um, but they can just be very rigid. They can be very, very rigid. They don't want a ton of change. Got it. So then two, this is the one we're gonna see a lot in healthcare. The um the two is the helper. Okay. Now, anytime I have a female tell me, oh, I took the test and I'm a two, I go, maybe. Maybe.

SPEAKER_02

It's almost like what we feel like we should be. Is that what it is?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So like if you have a female in healthcare, or like, you know, it's like, are you a two? Or is that just like what you feel, yeah, exactly. You need to be. Yep. So the two is the helper. Okay. Their core motivation is to be loved and needed. They just want to be loved. They want you to need them. And they earn love by becoming indispensable. That's okay. Like that is just like the value that they get. They are generous. They are warm. They are bringing you soup when you are sick from a weird place of like what they get out of it. Of like, okay. You're very grateful for me in your life, aren't you? Tell me that you love me. They are tell me that you love me. They are people pleasers, you know, but like they can be there, there's a manipulation that can come with that. Okay. So like that need to be needed, yeah, can come with like the core motivation for why they're doing things is not really about doing things for them. It's about the validation they get. Okay. Right. So like in healthcare, it's this may look like you loving a really needy patient in the beginning, but then if they're disputing their bill, you are. Yes. Like that, like, you know, so there's lots of different ways that this can show up. But like, yeah, the helper is great. You know, a lot of female healthcare providers, and obviously there's tons of men too, but like society just kind of shapes us into that. Like a lot of people were called into teachers and nurses, yeah. Right. Of just like, I just want to help. I just want to help. Yeah. Okay. I already talked about the three. Three. Yep. The fours, oh my gosh. The fours is the tortured artist. Like, they're just so special. When you think of a four, and I just want you to know, again, there none of these are bad. All of these are great. I just tend to roast other ones more than others. Like the four is like the moody, emo, 14-year-old girl. Okay. Like, nobody understands me. Their core motivation is to be unique. Okay. But then we'll like on the same, on the other end, just be like, throw it in your face that like you could never understand. Okay. They want to be understood, but nobody could understand them because you're so unique.

SPEAKER_02

But they truly believe that they are so unique and not be interested.

SPEAKER_01

I will proclaim until the day I die that I am such a basic bitch. Like pump spice lattes, like I am not, like, like you tell me what is on trend, like I will do it. Like I am basic. The four would revolt against that. Now that is where. So oh, we didn't even tell.

SPEAKER_02

I don't see you as being basic though. Hold on a second. Let's like pause there. You are not basic, Lauren, in any shape or form. I don't know what you're talking about. Um, I don't know. We could, I could argue a lot of things. Like, I could argue a lot of things. You're good at uh negotiating and getting you're good at manipulation. Which one is that? No, I'm just kidding. But you are not basic. You are a high achiever. It's okay. But you're not basically it's totally okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so yeah, so the fours can they um, you know, they can be very, very creative. Like, truly, this is the tortured artist for a reason. Like they are expressive, emotionally deep, like um, but they can be moody, dramatic, jealous. So fours, but like, yeah, fours is like nobody could understand me. I am just a fragile snowflake.

SPEAKER_02

What are the good sides? What are the positives? There's got to be positives. I mean, they're they're the artist. Yeah, they they create art.

SPEAKER_01

So they are actually very unique at their views of the world. They create some of the most beautiful poetry, like music. Like they are, they are not following and conforming. They are breaking the mold of how we look at things to be done. But in the in the process, they tend to like torture themselves. Got it. Like, you know, like I'm not choosing that for that route that you took, but I'm gonna like be anguished that I am like creating my own path. Got it. We're an on, you know, we're an Enneagram 3 might be like, I'm creating my own path, and you all think I'm amazing for doing it, right? Like you all want to follow me, right? And like a floor is like, I'm creating my own path. You couldn't handle this. Like you got it, you would die. I'm dying. My type of thing. Okay. Okay. So they're great. But again, fives are fives, I think, are the most boring, but it's like it makes sense that I would think that. Like, because they're just so analytical. Like, I'm just like a big picture. Threes tend to be like very visionary, da-da-da-da-da. And like the person who like drags me into the weeds of details and spreadsheets, they're very independent. Okay, very perceptive. They like they are great accountants, they are great, you know, lawyers, uh, educators, like these like researchers. Okay. They love the details. Okay. They love, love, love the details. They cannot get enough of that. Okay. Um, they also don't want to depend on anybody. Okay. So, like my uncle, um, who's like a 60-year-old bachelor, never been married, happy, loves it that way, could not handle, yeah, just likes his self-sufficiency.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Right. Just calculated, independent people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Now they the cons of them is they can be very stingy with their energy and resources. Like they believe that if they essentially, if I help you, like if you're like, hey, can I get on the phone to like pick your brain? They don't really want to do that. They're thinking about the cost of it. Right. Because they're so calculated. Like, it's like the emotional cost, like, well, then I'm gonna lose that hour and like uh type of thing. Right. So it's just they're not doing it to be they're they're just naturally stingy. Yeah. They're just naturally stingy. They it again, everybody's got a flaw. Um, and they don't like it. And so it's okay. You can, you know, kind of good time to circle back to like when you've realized this. So when you realize what your Ennegram type is, and you go, like, okay, so these are my under stress. This is what I go to, this is um, you know, my core coping mechanism for life. Well, then you can start swapping out other coping mechanisms, right? Like when you, if you're a five and you feel that like retraction when it comes to money or your time or your energy, you know, you can create a rubric that you go through of like of that will help you to actually lean in and you know be more generous with your time or your money or emotions or things like that. So again, this isn't like this, like the Enneagram is actually rooted like in like ancient religion, spirituality, and Christianity. Okay. So like this is not some like woo-woo 90s, 2000 ass, you know, whatever, like thing. Like this is you know, the whole point here is to thrive to become a better person.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So, okay. Six, six is the loyalist, they just want to be secure. Like, they just want financial security. The number one, the most common personality type is actually the sex.

SPEAKER_02

Interesting. Because I was gonna say, I don't know if I've ever met someone who's said they are a six.

SPEAKER_01

They're hard to type. I think six and nines are the hardest ones. Okay. They just want to be supported and secure. Um, they'll scan for threats. So, like a lot of times, a six, you know, you might be like, Do you have like like the exits? Like, they know the exits. They're kind of preparing, like, truly, they'll have the go bag. Yep. They're preparing for doomsday all the time. Yeah, they might have that emergency six months as an entrepreneur. They might have six, like, would not feel comfortable starting a business until they have six months like capital stored away of just like just in case for a rainy day fund type thing.

SPEAKER_02

So, as in it, like if this was your employee, what would you be able to do as an employer to make them feel, you know, secure to have somebody like this?

SPEAKER_01

So they are loyal and responsible. Like those are how they identify as a human. So taking them out to lunch on their one-year anniversary, writing them a card to let them know like, I appreciate, I appreciate your loyalty to this business, giving them responsibilities uh really, really helps as well. Um, so like that's how, you know, but you do just need to remember that they're worst case thinkers. So even leaning into that and being like, okay, we're gonna launch this, like, we're gonna be in the parade, blah, blah, blah. And going to your Nnegram six and being like, okay, what can go wrong? Yeah, and how could we prepare for it? Okay. Yeah. Like, oh my God, I'm so glad you asked. Well, it could rain. Like, okay, should we get custom ponchos? Like, what should what can we do? You know, type of thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. That sounds like a actually great person again to have on. I mean, I can kind of see a fit for all of these types of people, but particularly the six. It's like, okay, someone who's loyal, wants security, wants a secure job, and is going to point out all the holes. Great. Where is that person? Send them.

SPEAKER_01

Like my director of ops, I want a one, my HR, I want a nine, my finances, my CFO, I want a five. Like uh my front desk, I want a two. Okay. So sevens and eights we still have to cover, and they're my favorites. Okay. Okay. So sevens, we're gonna, I'm gonna, everybody. If you ask every Enneagram expert, which I am not, what's the best one? They're gonna be like, none of them. They're all they're all great. And you're like, okay, but which one do you wish you were? Most people are gonna say a seven. Okay. They really are. Sevens are the life of the party. They are your hype, girl. They are novelty, they are fun. You want sevens throwing your bachelorette party. Like they are fantastic. This is the friend you can call and be like, what are you doing next weekend? Okay. Like, and they if they're like, Well, I'm in the country actually, so what do you want to do? You know, yeah, they're they're fantastic, they're optimistic, they're energetic, they're visionaries. Okay. But so life of the party. But they can be really impulsive. Okay. So, like, um, they can really deal with uh fidelity issues, you know, like hey, you know, um, they can really regret, like, or well, actually, they don't tend to regret. Um, because if they make a mistake, they are so avoidant of negative, they're so focused on future and optimism that like anything that's raining on your parade, they will just rather cut you out. Got it. Okay. Thank you. That's not fun. So if you have a seven on your team, if everything is not like, oh my God, we are hitting our goals, we are hitting our bonuses, we're doing rewards. If it's like you are in a harder season of your career or your business, and it's like, got it, rah, rah, they're like, this job sucks, and they will leave.

SPEAKER_02

Are they like the gossiper too? The one that kind of starts, not necessarily.

SPEAKER_01

I think that we gossip. I think that there's lots of different motivations for gossip. I actually wouldn't put them as a gossip. Um, they might be like the celebrity, like the celebrity gossip. Gotcha. But like when the gossip starts hitting a little close to home, I think gossip is gonna come more from your like twos and threes, to be honest. Because like the twos want to be needed and the threes wanna be like, and like if you look at like a lot of the core reason of why people gossip, it's to create that connection in like a quick way. So, like a seven might talk about like, oh my God, you see Chris Jenner's new surgery. Yeah. And like, that's fine because there's no like emotion. But like, did you hear that so-and-so at work did this? It's like, no, they don't like here for a good time. We're here for a good time type thing. Yeah. So yeah, so they can be extremely avoidant, extremely scattered. They will launch a hundred planes and not see a single one through. They are not your project managers. Like sevens now, although I said they're my favorite, I would be the most concerned about having a seven on my staff. Okay, that's good to know. Good friend, not necessarily a good employee. Great friend, not necessarily a staff member. Got it. It doesn't mean they can't be. Yeah, depends on the deal, but it's but it's just like you gotta be conscious that they are not, you're they're not, they don't want to see a project all the way through. Like it's no longer, as soon as it's hard, it's not fun. Okay. And why I don't want that. Makes sense. All right, what's our eights? Our last one. Our eights. The eights you can spot from a mile away because they are your challenger. They do not give a about you, your opinion, anybody's opinion. They are in it for power and authority. Like, so these will be a lot of like CEOs that have no interest in being on podcasts. They do not want the limelight, they just want the political power, they want to be in control. Um, it is like they, their core motivation is to protect themselves and stay in control and in a yeah, in a place of authority and control. They believe that their strengths, like being strong, keeps them from being hurt. So they will see tears as a weakness of just like, why are you crying? Do you realize how weak and pathetic you look right now for crying? Um, they are decisive, they are protective, they are bold, they are the challenger. Like these are this is a personality where when I meet it, I'll be like, You're I was also raised by an any and grammate. My mom's an eight. And so it's just like, I can see it. They are, they can be domineering, confrontational. And if you and if you like say, like, why are you being so angry or confrontational? They're like, This isn't confrontational. Oh, you haven't seen confrontational. Like they're just talking directly. We're just having a conversation. I just asked why you ordered a margarita, and you're like, I know, but the way you asked it made me feel like it was the wrong choice. And they're like, order what you want. I don't care. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02

You just want real honest conversation.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Um they're they're so great. They're so great. Um, Carrie from The Mastermind, she's like somewhere between a seven and an eight. Yeah, she's a fun one. She's seven, but she just comes with like, I don't care, right? Type of thing. Oh, so yeah, so we can have, you know, that's so that's all of them. So like I said, they're all great. They're all great. And all place. Yeah, but it's good to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02

They all talk awesome. Yeah. What your, you know, what your type is as a leader, what your employees' type is, so that you can help to make sure that they feel good on the team, right? That they're getting their knees bet, needs met, and that they're in the right seat.

SPEAKER_01

But like I said, you know, I don't use this as a hiring technique because you're gonna get a lot of twos from people. Right, right, right. Because people are gonna answer this through the lens of knowing this is a job application part. Yep. So it's kind of like, oh, but like once they're on the team, you know, doing this kind of an exercise and like going deep into it, because like this was just like surface, surface level. This it's so much more. Um and but like, but it's a really great place for people to start. It's a really great place for people to start. I love that.

SPEAKER_02

Well, thank you for that. So if people want to learn more about you or find you and connect with you, where can they go?

SPEAKER_01

Um, so dr laurenb.com is a great place. Um, so D-R-L-A-U-R-Y-N, and then the letter B. Um, or just follow me on Instagram. That's uh again, it's my handle is at Dr. Lauren B. That is the number one place to connect with me, is on Instagram. Uh shoot me a DM. I will absolutely respond. You might get a voice memo back from me. Um, but that is where I've got resources. You know, if you if you want to know more about the Enneagram, I think I've recorded like three different episodes on it. I can like send you those links. Um that's a whole nother thing. I have a podcast that's like 350 episodes in. So if you have a question, I can probably send you a podcast episode on it.

SPEAKER_02

Amazing. I love it. Thank you so much. It was so great to have you. I hope you enjoyed our conversation from today. Any links we discussed will be in the show notes below. Also, we would be incredibly grateful if you would leave us a five star review. This helps us keep the podcast going so that we can continue to provide value for all of you. I hope we see you on the next one.