SPEAKER_00

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another week and another episode of Unfiltered Waters. And this week we travel into foreign waters. We get to speak with Ireland's own Daniel Wiffen. And Daniel is the first male swimming Olympic medalist from Ireland after he captured gold in Paris in the 800 freestyle, as well as securing bronze in the 1500. And Daniel is working through some transition right now, training in one place for five years in Ireland and now moving over the past year to Cal to train with his brother Nathan Wiffen. And the reason that we were able to even talk to him is he's here in Atlanta cheering on Nathan in his first year at NCAA's with the Cal Bears. And when this episode airs, Daniel will have already competed at the Iris Trials where he has made a big statement. He never wants to lose again. So big expectations coming out of the Iris trials, preparing for the Commonwealth games. But it was so fun walking down memory lane with him, talking through his mentality and how much research goes into his confidence when he's executing a race, what he was thinking about in the 800 and the 1500, and even his crazy experience of swimming the 10K in the Seine in Paris. But I have to say I really, really relate to Daniel's mentality of we talk about it all the time on the pod of being a feeler swimmer versus a data swimmer. And Daniel is very much a data swimmer. And if you guys know me at this point, so am I. I could have nerded out with him for an hour, but I saved you guys the trouble. But Daniel is, I love his uh just outlook on the sport. I love that he has a YouTube channel and how invested he is with his cameras and capturing his practices. I think that is something that is really gonna set up his future for the best. And I would have to say he is back to true form, not only physically but mentally. And the guy has confidence on his side in the best way and so many, I say so many little nuggets in terms of how to approach confidence. I think regardless of what type of swimmer you are, knowledge is power. And so being able to feel empowered behind the blocks, feel like you know your race plan, you know your competitors is a huge advantage. And I believe every single athlete, swimming or not, can learn something from that. So don't forget to hit that subscribe button as well as comment your favorite moment from this episode or even your favorite Daniel Wiffin race. I would love to know. I have mine, of course, as a Daniel Wiffin fan, but we always want to know your opinion. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Daniel Wiffin. Without your health, you have nothing. 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Number two, I can do different things. So, you know, maybe I want to work on my kick. There's this amazing bar right here. I really need to work on my retro kick, my fast heel speed. Uh, I love that I can actually do some, you know, running. I am a swimmer at heart, so running on land isn't the best. So their treadmill in here is really cool. Um, and then just how wide it is. I have really, really long arms, really wide wingspan, not quite microphobes, but pretty, pretty wide. And so being able to not feel like I'm claustrophobic or you know, hitting the sides is dreamting. And I even got to bite, which is crazy. I turned it all the way up to the fastest it'll go. And so, again, for people who, you know, maybe are injured or you know want to stay low impact because of their joints. We're all getting older, and so being able to be fit but not destroy our bodies is really, really important. So make sure you use our link so you can get a thousand dollars off at Animal Schools. Daniel Wiffen, welcome to Unfiltered Waters.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for having me. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

This worked so well. I like I literally saw you post that you were gonna be here, and I'm like, I'm reaching out to him. Um, so you we just talked about this off camera. You are preparing for the iris trials and you are in taper, but you're doing it at NCAA's between sessions while watching your brother.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

How's that gonna go?

SPEAKER_02

That seems very complicated the way I explain it, but no, yeah. I saw the taper last week. We do about three weeks out normally. But uh my tape is very different from an all person probably because I'm probably still gonna hit 60k this week on my second week out. But uh yeah, it's it's a bit lonely. I've got uh one of my training partners from Cal is here, but he's leaving today, so I had him for one day. Okay, and then uh but I didn't have him last week, so uh I got to sit for one day, and then uh yeah, it's training alone, it's great.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I feel like distance swimmers, and I'm like mid-distance distance, so I kind of get this mentality. You just kind of have to accept that that's gonna be what you do a lot of the time. It's just gonna be a lonely existence.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, it is very lonely. Yeah. I mean, I I've actually been so lucky over the years. I've had like a group of like 15 men to train with, like you all do the the mile. So uh training, actually, I never really allowed. Also, I've got my twin brother.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

I've never been allowed really, to be honest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's crazy that you guys both swim similar events.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we actually didn't use.

SPEAKER_00

When did that transition?

SPEAKER_02

Uh so when we're younger, we weren't allowed to. I I took um I took three and fly, and he took back and breasts, and then we came together on IM, um, raced together, and then I guess um maybe three years ago, Nathan was he was a turn backstroker and he was he was pretty good. I don't know all his time, so maybe like two or three long course, something like that. And then he just like uh I he saw how good I was doing and he was like, well, like I'm built the same, so I may as well just try it. And then he just transitioned over to distance swimming and then started training with me when we were in university in England.

SPEAKER_00

That's nice. So you just like gained a training partner that's your twin brother.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and now he's kind of just on the rise right now, trying to get better and better.

SPEAKER_00

Are you so we're filming this for people watching before his 1650 tonight day one of NCAA men. What are you like what are you looking for from him?

SPEAKER_02

Um well, I obviously want him to win. That would be my I mean, I never looked for anything other than winning, to be honest. But for him, like honestly, the field is stacked. Yes, uh, you've got three, I don't know, uh three world champions uh in the race. So I I I said if he gets top five, he's ranked eighth. So if he gets top five, I'd be pretty happy. But to be honest, he's kind of in the lucky scenario where he's like a fifth-year grad student, so like he is this is his only year racing, so the time doesn't matter. He just is gonna go in and race. Um I don't even I've been training yards for eight months now or a bit less, and I don't even know what the times mean yet, so I don't think he does either. So he's just gonna go in with a level head and just try and see what happens with the race.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I want to talk about that specific thing where the Americans are the only ones that are just stubborn stubbornly doing the yards, and it's so hard to. I remember when I was swimming, I I'd do a killer thousand, and I'd be like, but I wanted it to kind of be like an alert to my competitors internationally, but they're probably looking at it like, is that good? Right? I heard, and tell me if you think differently now, training in yards for eight months, that you thought you could break that barrier of 14 minutes. Yeah. Do you still think that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think I can do it short course meters, and I think short course metres is harder than yards to break it in. It's around the same though. I was talking to Bobby about Bobby Fink about it at the pro series in Austin, and uh, you know, he feels like it it we were too, it's pretty possible. He says he tell he said to me, he said if my record doesn't go in the 412 soon, then it show it seems like it needs to go. That's what he said. But I was like, yeah, maybe Nathan will break it, is what I said. But uh yeah, I I think it can go. I'm gonna do uh I I was gonna try to do an exhibition of it next season. Okay. I was thinking about doing it this season, but I had so much uh going on with loads of different things, so I was like, oh, I'll just try next season.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I did a couple miles and they didn't go very well.

SPEAKER_00

So I was gonna I was gonna ask you, like you, you know, trained in the same place for five years, decided to make this shift to Cal, like moving across the world essentially. How like I guess what went into that decision and how are you feeling like it's going?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the decision really came around because uh obviously after Olympics, everybody kinds and like kinds of assesses what they're doing, kind of, and people leave your program too, like people retire, and I I'd say like half of my training group like retired. Uh so I didn't really have anybody to trade with. I had like some, I guess, freshman guys coming in who were 18, but uh the one of them was pretty good, and then I had Nathan and then uh Lucas Henvoo, my training partner now moved to back to Cal to do another um year for the N Souble Ace. So I was like, Well, this could be a great opportunity. I spoke with my old coach Andy about it, and he was like, To be honest, this is the year to try it, and he was like, So go and try it. If you don't like it, you're always welcome back. And uh yeah, so I just Nathan took the first step. He was uh two months before I got there, and then uh he was a joiner, got there. Was kind of uh probably the worst trainer on the team when I got there because I just had my appendix taken out, so uh I literally could not I could not put like a hundred metres together, sub 110. And uh I remember all they were all making fun of me, like saying how they were beaten the Olympic champion, and then every week I'd get faster and faster, and then um we went to European championships, and I kind of like had a in my head I just tried to win a medal. I'd just been training for like a month and a half, and then I ended up winning, and I was I was like, oh, this is amazing, and then it kind of ever since then, it's kind of everything's getting better and better, and you know, the group we've got there is amazing. We've got like some up-and-coming American summers, so like Ryan Erasmus, who's summoning at this meet too, and he's really good. And we got the pro summers of like Jack Alexi, and like so it's kind of like a good balance that we have a pro squad on a college team that kind of mix and match, and everybody's always friends in a team, and it's a big team thing, which I've never really been part of because I came from a very individual program before where this is more like 40 guys doing the same thing, kind of it's really cool.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, has has everyone shut up? Like, did your performance at Europeans shut them up, or are they still getting some trash talking?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well, I'm probably the worst because I try to sort the worst. Do you? Uh I don't let anybody escape. Uh like when we're doing reps, I like uh they always like to try beat me on like one rep, so I like to count them up, and I like every time I want a rep, I'll like say it's 1-0, 2-0, 3-0, and I keep counting them up. And like you can see these guys getting really annoyed, like Ryan, you know, he loves to race. And when he's getting really annoyed, he gets you can see it and he sprints a rep, and then he'll say, Oh, that's that's like 9-1, and I went, okay. And then I just keep going again and kick out. But no, I'm quite a wind-up, I think, in training. I like to play around with people, but uh, it's all about getting the work done. I think that's it makes it more fun when we do it that way.

SPEAKER_00

That's way more fun. I'm honestly envious of guys because I just feel like girls, it can be taken the wrong way a little bit more often. And I just think like that's the beauty of having a training group that's so elite, like Cal, is just like getting everyone charged up, and that gets the best performances.

SPEAKER_02

It does, it makes the best sessions. Our coach always says it. He said, actually, I I I remember my old coach Andy, who never really gave any part, never gave me like positive feedback. It was always like, even when I won the Olympics, like that was good.

SPEAKER_00

Uh after you won the Olympics, that's what you got.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well, I don't know. He just never, you know, I don't think he like even when I had like unbelievable sessions, I've done sets that I don't know if anybody else does in the world. He he never would say like good job, but I'd only found out he thought it was really good from other people that he'd tell. So it I think it's actually better for me because he would scream and share me in the pool, and then I'd never know if it was good enough, so I'd always be trying to be faster. And uh when I came to Kyle, I think it was very different. They're not really kind of screaming and sharing, it's more like lay back, you're you kind of choose to do the work, right? Which is a good approach as well. But uh maybe I am I like being shared to that more. But when I Noah said to me, it was like when you joined, like the atmosphere in the the group kind of lifted because we brought in this new energy of trying to race everybody and everybody. I remember I sat everybody down actually within like two two weeks. Actually, I think we were at OTC and I sat everybody down. I was like, I'm just gonna let you guys know that I have a goal for this squad, and it's not for me to be really fast and then have the person at the bottom not even make a nationals cut. I want the person at the bottom to rise to the top and we stay at the top, so we make the best assistant squad in the world. And I said this to them on pool side ever since then, the British been training real fast, and it's been really good.

SPEAKER_00

That's so cool. I'm sure really I'm assuming really appreciated. Did have did you have any pushback with that?

SPEAKER_02

No, everybody kind of rose to the challenge. I I'd really like the squad we've got. Nobody is like fighting back, everybody's doing the work together, we're all hurting together, and it's great. And then we the women also join in with us because Cal used to be separate programs, and uh kind of recently they kind of joined together. So we've got like Claire Weinstein joining in too, and uh yeah, she's funny. I I like training with Claire. She's the best. Yeah, and I went and trained with her coach Ron in Las Vegas for a week, and that was the worst week of my life.

SPEAKER_01

I bet.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, they they work hard there, but no, yeah, it's just so fun being in that group.

SPEAKER_00

Does Claire do you trash talk Claire and does Claire give it back?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well, I like I wouldn't I don't really trash talk Claire that far, but uh I like say some things and then I don't she sometimes doesn't give me it back. I thought maybe I went a bit too far, or give us some technique advice, and then she starts shouting at me for saying I don't swim the same way as you or something like that. But no, it's uh it's funny.

SPEAKER_00

That's so fun. Oh, well, I I hope it continues to go well. It sounds like it's been a really positive shift since it hasn't even been a year yet.

SPEAKER_02

So it hasn't, no, no.

SPEAKER_00

So before we move forward, I want to take a step back. I know you've probably talked about Paris a lot, but not on unfiltered waters. I just want to talk, I feel like your career was just kind of this like steady climb. And while I'm sure you had some moments where you're like, yeah, but that was tough here and there. Getting to the top of the podium at the Olympic Games is everyone's dream, right? Can you talk me through how you approached the 800 with an insanely stacked field? And I think that the most impressive thing is how did you stay patient in the race?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, um, well, I think like the whole build-up was kind of how it came down to that that race kind of last 50 was because uh I quite I like to do a lot of research on my capacitors and I like to know what they're doing. So when I sat down with my coach the year before, we kind of like figured out how the race was gonna like play out, and we kind of knew who the main contenders were gonna be. And um, so I knew that Bobby Fink was never gonna change his race of racing last 50, and I knew that Greg Pal can't race last 50, so he goes early. So the whole year I kind of just like trained to be able to stay at great Greg Oreo's pace and then be able to come back faster than Bobby Fink. Uh, and like I just developed like this like kind of technique at the end where I just spin my arms like a 0.9 rate. Uh really so that I can and that's because when I bring in legs it when I swim, it kind of actually makes me slower. I think my kick technique's not great, so um yeah, the just spinning the arms actually makes me go faster. So we went out and I practiced it like every session. Every session at the end of a set, we'd do a last 50 or uh all out at the end of a set just to prep replicate what was gonna happen in the race. So that whole build-up kind of like I knew how the race was gonna plan out before it happened because of the research we did, and um, we actually went into a lot of detail on like stroke count, exactly who was gonna push like the Australian Elijah Willington going out fast and then fading away. It like um because you've raced these guys so many times, you kind of just you know, like when you become like a certain age, I feel like it's hard to change the strategy, and then I didn't think they were gonna change. And then well, Bobby Hit was with a surprise under 1500, but uh it was uh the 800 was kind of like I felt like it was my race to lose coming up to it. But in terms of the race, like I remember diving in and like I always like go into like a big race with a PB like set or like a mark that I want to be, like a good, uh great, or an unbelievable time. And uh I like I only realized this after the race that uh the Olympics has nothing to do with time, right? Yeah, because I was good into saying, like, oh yeah, I could easily get close to that 732 barrier, and then I remember the heats went so well, so smooth. It's the same in the 1500, went in really fast in the heats, and then I get to the final and like I just can't feel my arms. Like you go the first halfway through the race, and I'm like stuck in like and and I just can't move and I have no feel. And then like I remember like my coach told me before the race, it was like like I he this is his first time experienced Olympic goal too, and he said, he said, from what I what I've seen and what I've read, like the first part of this race, you're gonna end up not feeling probably great. And it this is when the training comes in, this is why you did all those reps, why you went out fast in training these four years before from Tokyo to Paris was because at the start of the race, you're probably not gonna feel great, and that's when you go back to what you've done in training. So when he said that to me, I was like, when I was in the race, I was thinking about this. I got a 400 meters, like, oh, I start to feel good, you know. And I started I made a little push, and then I saw I knew Greg did his thing, and he started to push with uh 200 left, and I stay level with him, and then it worked out for me, right? But I noticed that Bobby could not, I couldn't see Bobby when Greg was in my way because Bobby was in the outside lane, Greg was in the middle, and that's the one of the side. So I thought then, well, Bobby probably can't see me when Greg's in front of when Greg's in a certain angle in front of Bobby.

SPEAKER_01

This was all going through your head in the race. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02

So I was like, if I can like going into the last hundred here, if I can like try and make it so that Bobby can't see me make my move round Greg, then I can win this race and not put it down to the last 50. So that's how I was thinking of the race. And when it came to the last 50, I had like a body length of a lead. So then it um it just came up, then I was like, oh yeah, I've won like for the last 50 because I trained this the speed to come back on, and then I already had a gap.

SPEAKER_00

So oh my goodness. Like, first of all, I always ask people, like, are you a data swimmer, research swimmer, or a feeler? And you're obviously very much a data swimmer, and I'm the same way. And I'm just so fascinated because I think it is knowledge is power, and that is the perfect example of where knowledge is power. Like, you knew the first 400, yep, it's gonna feel crappy, no problem. Like everything you could anticipate. You said the last 50 you knew, like, I'm winning Olympic gold. Like, were you smiling?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I was. I was trying to, but the problem is like also you like have to contain it because you still gotta do the last game.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're still in a lot of pain.

SPEAKER_02

I remember because I was watching the race video back and it looked a lot closer than what I thought it was. And uh like I put my head down last 20, um, and I took a breath at the 10 meters, and then I took a breath at the five, and uh, I was like spinning my arms, and I was like, Oh, I do I looked at the clock and I remember like thinking, I was like 0.6. I thought it was like a second.

SPEAKER_00

Probably better that you didn't know that and just put your head down.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah, and then when I finished, I just everybody always asked me, it's like, oh, how did you feel? I was like, I have no idea, I don't know what I remember. I lost all memory. Of the race, I think it's about pain. It's the most painful race I've done. That's all I remember. I remember the best thing about Paris was as well that had my family up on like a TV when I came out. It was really nice. I got to talk to them after the race. But I was, I think I was like so excited that I probably didn't actually put together any words.

SPEAKER_00

Just spluttering excitement. That's so special. I yeah, I love hearing people's memory or lack of memory after it comes true. And um, you know, then you move on a couple days later to not even a couple days later, the last day. That that is actually really unfair that they make it so you know close to the beginning and then you have to wait long. How do you then go from the insane high of the 800 to you're human, like you have all this emotion to then resetting for the 15?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think this is the problem where I actually I don't think I did the right things in between. I think I was so excited, but I knew I was gonna win before, like in my head, I'd already told myself I was gonna win, like I already knew it. I like done with my sponsors uh before the games like pieces of camera, and I like already did all the speeches of me winning.

SPEAKER_00

No, you did it for the 800 or both?

SPEAKER_02

For the 800.

SPEAKER_00

For the 800, okay.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I remember after the race, I was like, what's better than one gold, too? What's better than two, three? I was like, yeah, well, this could be a rough one. And then I remember after the race, I did like a whole media day, which I think like because Ireland doesn't get many gold medals, like we have no experience on like somebody who's somebody who doubles up, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, so I went after the race and I did like uh like a full day of media that the our Olympic committee had me doing every media channel in Ireland, and I remember as I I was like, oh, this is this is grab and join it. I remember getting back from it, I was like, oh my god, I'm dead, and I didn't swim the next day, and normally I swim every session, I go twice a day every day at the competition. I didn't swim that day, and I was like, Oh, this is I'm gonna feel real bad tomorrow. And then I remember getting in the morning, I was just pretty like dead, but I kind of knew my recovery strategy, I kind of knew what I needed to do, so I still had it in place. And my coach wasn't actually with me at the Olympics, he was only watching at the stands because uh to be on an Irish coach's team, you have to be Irish, and my coach was British, so they weren't he couldn't go, but he was in the stands, and he somehow snuck behind security to get in to watch as well, and he got to see the metal podium from behind and go to the swimnam pool. But um yeah, so like I he told me what to do, I had the plan in place, but when it came to the 1500 heats, it was like I felt really good in the heats, and I kind of like was in the best shape of my life, so it's like I posted a time of 1440, which was uh probably my fourth or third fastest time I've ever done. And all my friends tell me to this day it's probably the easiest 1440 they've ever seen in Leaf. I generally think I could have like gone sub 1430 if I'd swam the the like the race at full potential because in the heats were swimming at like well you I you always say like 80%, but really you're not you can't really if you're swimming 80%, you're going like 20 minutes. I'm somewhere like 99%. I'm not just not like sprinting at the end. And I felt like that day I was unbelievable, and I felt like I got been good, and then the next day the same thing happened with the nerves and then not feeling great, and then by the time I'd settled into the 1500, I was I I also got to say the 800, I another data thing was that I knew going into the race that it's better for me to watch swimmers than to just breathe to one direction, sorry, breathe to like one side. Okay, so I like for the whole year just practiced like left-right breathing so that I could then just breathe to the left direction, and then in the race they were breathing on my left side. Uh so I just easily I could just watch Bobby and Greg the whole way because that was the way I was gonna breathe. So the 1500, I had to start on my left side to breathe, and they were on my right. So when I started the left side, they were already bottling up out of the 50 because I took it out a bit slower, and then I was like playing catch-up the whole race, and then it just became this thing where like, oh, they're just gapping me even more, and then I was just trying to hold off third place at some point. But to be honest, that was the the hardest thing was that third place Olympics, because I think it was the other way around, it would have been way nicer, right? Uh, but then people kind of look at it as a disappointment, and I I did too, like a bronze medal, even though it's like unbelievable. Yeah, it's like I just won goal and then I got bronze, and then I come uh like 14th in the open water after as well. So it got worse as the competition went through, but the open water was probably my favorite race, so everything is a lot no pressure really.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, when you think of elite performance, you think of control the controllables. There are so many athletes that are flying in where their flights are getting delayed, they're in a new hotel room, they maybe have noises that they're not used to, they're not sleeping as well. And so you have to focus on things that you can fully control. And so that's where dream recovery comes in. I am constantly traveling, but I just traveled to this meet, I'm here for two weeks. And so making sure I have my performance mask, making sure I have my dream thing plus, those are all things that I know are gonna make sure that I'm showing up at my absolute best to interview and make sure that I'm telling these athletes' stories to the best of my ability. And so, why wouldn't you control what you can control by just ordering the tools that you need to make sure you have a better sleep and an optimized night's rest? So use code unfiltered30 for 30% off all their products and make sure you're showing up as your best self. I have so many questions. One around so I feel like for myself, like I was so planned out, I had so much data. And like you just said, when it's not playing out, like when they're to your right instead of your left, it can throw you off. So, how do you think about it now in terms of being able to prepare for the unexpected, even though a big source of your confidence comes from the plan?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um, to be honest, now I'm able to prove to that direction too. Some thoughts. I like uh I kind of level it out, but uh I do think I necessarily wasn't meant to win that race. I think with Bobby breaking the world record, like it's a world record swim. Uh that day that wasn't my day, and you know, I'm happy with the bronze medal. Like I I I I had a really successful Olympic games, and yeah, you know, the race was still really good. I still went 1439. I just I I take little wins as well, like improving from the heats, stuff like that. Like uh, so that was good, and like all different steps. I actually think I put to better a better race day as well on the 1500. So certain things were actually better than the 800, just the 800 had a better medal in the end of it.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Yeah, there's only so much you can control, like you're controlling your race, and it just happened to be on that day Bobby had the summer of his life, you know. So and you said open water at because I heard that you said it was the most like chaotic, painful thing, but you're saying it was still like your favorite?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed it, well, I I only started enjoying it like um probably like a month after because I was in hospital for like three days with uh yeah, with a coli poisoning, but uh that kind of just made the trip to be honest. Everything happened. I kind of like my Olympics ended. I was meant to carry the flag as well for Island, but I was in a wheelchair, so I couldn't do it. Uh but the overwater was my favorite because um it's the only race I've ever done where I didn't have to go into it with any expectation. Uh I just wanted to complete the race. It was my first ever 10k. And I did it with four of my training partners, and two of them were and because you could qualify through the 1500, like a lot of them did. So, like for a lot of us, like no, no, nobody expected us to win. Like, uh, we were just kind of having fun and jumping around. And I remember being in the call room before, and I'd never experienced anything open water before and sitting there, and all these people are very serious. And I was like, this is like what I was like last week, but now I'm basically having loads of fun.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But um, that was good. I also didn't, I wouldn't even say I prepared properly for the open water. Uh I was like hardly training in between. I went to the yeah, I went to the after party after the swimming. Like as you should, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

As you should.

SPEAKER_02

So it was like uh oh oh I came like I remember actually it's the greatest media interview I've ever given after the open water. I was like sitting there and I was like drinking a bottle of coke because they said that's what you have to drink coke after you're finished it kills the bacteria. I was like, oh yeah, uh drink it. I just remember I was on Irish TV, I was like, um, right, I'll see everybody out at nightclubs in Paris tonight. Oh yeah, and it went so viral. I remember it was the hilarious thing, everybody was loving it.

SPEAKER_00

That's you you can understand your mentality, the fact that you you're sitting there saying that the 10k was so fun, like six miles in the Seine. Like that is for most people, that is not a fun day.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but I got a great photo out of it with me swimming under the Eiffel Tower.

SPEAKER_00

That's sick. Yeah, that's really cool.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that was actually my goal for the race was to get that photo. I told a photographer before. Did you really? I was like, Can you get this photo? Because this is why I want to swim.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But it was uh the race itself was very physical. I didn't actually I prepared, like, I did a bit of open water feeding on my taper, but I mean I just mess around with a pole and my coach just throwing it at me. Yeah. And Nathan trying to hit me while we were on taper. So a barrow barrels beside the guy who uh the guy who won the race, uh, and then one of the guys who came fifth. And off the start, like they just closed me in, and one threw me an elbow, and I was right at the back.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh, it's so physical.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and then the current was next level. I remember. Yeah, because I'm like obviously uh I'm one of the fastest distance swimmers in the pool, and like the two you had to swim faster than 112 to make it up the river uh to like not be stationary.

SPEAKER_01

Is that the pace?

SPEAKER_02

Wow, and like I was like, I was dying holding like just trying to move in the water, it didn't feel like you were moving at all. And there's like bushes on the side with like thorns on them, like scraping, you'd come out with like just blood and everything, yeah, like gnarly, yeah, it was. So people would like shove you into the river wall because you had to stay by the wall because if you were in the middle of the river, it's like 107 pace to get break the current. So uh people just like shove into the wall, and then like you just like you had to get out of there. So I like the race I'd have swam by myself and like kind of not in the middle of the river, but kind of not on the side, so then nobody would touch me.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I just can't wrap my head around you're like, Oh, I had the most fun, and you're like, I got an elbow to the face, I'm bloody.

SPEAKER_02

It was funny as well because um the open water coach would say, I remember this after. I don't remember it during the race, but every time I took a feed, it was meant to be we had a feed strategy, and at the end I was just feeding every lap because I was so much energy. I I was telling him, Oh, can I just get out? He was like, No, you're finishing this.

SPEAKER_01

He wanted to get I bet in that in those.

SPEAKER_02

I think I asked after halfway, and every lap I asked, it was like six laps.

unknown

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow. Well, a historic Olympic Games for you, and you come back and experience you know, train for world championships and then have this appendicitis. Are you fully healthy now? Like, how are you know? Wow, and how long did that that really just took you what six months?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I was kind of well, I guess I was like fully. I I I mean, if I win European championships, I have to call myself like fully true.

SPEAKER_00

But some people, I mean, knowing how gritty you are, I wouldn't assume that actually.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I was three months after, so I would say like I was back swimming after ten days. Um, I I actually uh people like come up to me like just normal spectators of the sport and be like, oh yeah, I'm an appendix here, and I I like couldn't do any exercise for three months, and I was like, oh well, I I was swimming after 10 days, so I like got straight back on the pool. It was a lot on build-up, obviously, but um uh the worst part of it was I just couldn't turn. So I was like trying to do as many meters as possible, just doing touch turns. Um but to be honest, like um, I was just happy to get it out. I had like pendicitis three times before I got it taken out.

SPEAKER_00

Is it just like running your family or like no no, I was the only one.

SPEAKER_02

My mum thinks it's like to the river in uh the Seine.

SPEAKER_00

No way, yeah, another plus for that stupid scene. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah, I got it just before the world championships, like five five weeks before. I was something great then, but uh, and then I just I had this pain in my stomach, and my training partner had to run me to hospital, and like, oh yeah, you've got a penicitis, you either get it taken out now, or you can go on the antibiotics, and then I rang all the doctors and they're like, Yeah, well, you'll miss the world champs if you don't if you take your team outside. I'll just take the risk. And then I remember I did the four of your free heats and I was feeling awful. And I did the 800 heats and I I just scraped in the final, and then I did a final and I had to go to hospital. Uh it was like basically about rut. So then I had to medically rub draw, uh, which wasn't the best way to go because I was defending world champion and I kind of wanted to like go through a world titled defense, but I just wasn't in the shape. And uh then after that, I I think it was good though, because after the Olympics, I kind of was like in like a zone of where like I wanted to know I knew that I wanted to win more, but I just kind of didn't know what to do. And I was kind of like, do I stay? I had to finish my degree, and then because I was studying the whole time, and then I was like, Oh, I guess I see what happens, and then that kind of like changed my mindset after going. I was like, oh well, I hate losing, and coming eighth in the world final and the event I'd won like a year ago was like I I've got to train harder. So then I as soon as I got out, I was like, I'm moving to Cal, I'm getting the work done, I'm gonna never lose again. That's what I said.

SPEAKER_00

So that was, I mean, I always feel like people can find a when something bad happens, that's the makes sense, and that's the make sense moment. It's like, oh, it lit a fire under you of like okay, yeah. Never again.

SPEAKER_02

No, never again.

SPEAKER_00

So you have when this airs, it'll be like a week after Irish trial concludes. What is success there?

SPEAKER_02

Um, for I told uh my coaches at Cal, I said if I don't break 1440, I don't know if I'll come back. Uh come back what?

SPEAKER_01

Just in the in the Cal? Oh no, okay, all right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but I feel I'll be fine. Uh I don't know how set in stone that is, but I like I put a lot of pressure on myself. Like I want to be on my PB at the competition. I don't really care about like I'm doing like I'm doing the 2, 4 and 8 and 15 at the trials across five days. I've got to have a 200 because we have Commonwealth games and I've got to qualify on the relay.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And I I kind of like never been on a relay, so I thought it's a great opportunity. And then um, yeah, so I mean if I get a PB at any of the three, the four, eight, or fifteen, I'd be over the moon. And if I'm close within like a couple seconds, it's also great. I'm not expecting to like break a world record right now.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Uh I actually don't know what even kind of shape I'm in because I just came back from Chicago and I probably had the slowest swim I've ever had in five years. And but then I was in Austin the week before the month before that, and I had the fastest ever in season I've ever had. So it's been very up and down. But uh, so we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_00

How do you mentally manage that? Because you obviously seem very confident, but we're all human, so internally you have your doubts. What are you what are you doing to combat that?

SPEAKER_02

Uh yeah, I actually I like I kind of drive a bit of data into it because uh historically I do a meet four weeks before I race at a big meet, and uh it's always my slowest like race ever. It always this before the Olympics I had uh I went 5024, uh and then I went four weeks later 1430 summit.

SPEAKER_01

Casual.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I I don't know what it is, I think it's maybe the part of the cycle I'm in. Like I in Os in Chicago, I tested my lactate after the 500, I went 40, I went 1532 or 1534, and I was uh lactate two, and I normally I get up to like lactate 15 after a race, and I was like, okay, I'm just in a very deep hole right now, and then I try to explain it to myself that I'm on this like bottom of the trough, and that now the trough's really deep, so the peak is gonna be really high. That's why and I explained this to the cow coaches because I don't they don't do a lot of lactate testing. I actually just started it like two months ago. I bought my own machine just so I could test it, and then they're getting into it now as well, and then a lot of swimming, I'm testing a lot of other swimmers too, because they want to get involved in it too. Yeah, so uh it's actually quite good because I use it for more of a like uh if I have a bad session and my lactate's really low, I'm underfueled and I don't have glycogen. So then I use that, I need to eat more before the session or whatever. And then I've had a really good session, my lactate's really if my lactate's perfect, then I know that's the right what I need to be at. So yeah, it's kind of good.

SPEAKER_00

I love I loved doing lactate testing. I just feel like it kind of takes out the like, well, how you feel this way, and it's kind of like it doesn't really matter how you feel, you know, it it matters what the numbers are showing. Do you do any other trackers? Like, are you using Whoop or Aura or anything like that?

SPEAKER_02

No, I need to start HRV testing because uh Ron Aiken told me I should do it. Yeah, I was like, yeah, I should probably do that. But I want to like uh yeah, I need to figure out which one. I don't want to wear it in the pool because I don't like wearing wearables in the pool that much. Right. I've never tried it though, so maybe I'll have to try it. But uh we track heart rate in the sessions. I actually don't uh use it. I just sit and monitor in and Noah will look at my heart rate. But uh if it says if it says red, like that's like 160, 170 heart rate, like I'm gonna be higher than that because I don't go red, I'll go faster, I'll go whatever it takes to win.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so that's why heart rate doesn't matter that much to me, but I I've realized now getting older watching all these younger guys try and race me that that that used to be me, and now I can't do it as much because I don't have the energy to replicate uh a fast set ever ten times a week. I can maybe only do it like eight. So I take two sessions a week where I take really easy recovery now compared to when I was younger, I was like going as fast as possible and trying to beat everybody, and you know, now it's like kind of just race the sessions that I can do instead of racing the sessions that everybody wants to race.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a harsh reality getting older.

SPEAKER_02

I'm only 24, but my trading age feels quite high after all the meters I've done.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, seriously. I mean, the fact that I thought you were gonna be like, I can't do 10, I can only do like four. So the fact that you're still at eight, we're in it's you're still you're still in a good spot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I want to talk a little bit more about your YouTube channel with your twin brother. I I don't feel like there's a lot of people out there embracing, you know, social media and capturing this incredible life that you have. What prompted you guys to get into it and what do you love most about it?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I started 2021. I basically on my last year of high school, uh, we had COVID. So I like had to kind of move to swim. Uh we couldn't swim for three months, and then our national center in Dublin opened up for like specific athletes who like a chance to make in the Olympics, and uh I was like the second wave of athletes who allowed back. So I think I f I think I was swimming in my garden for like a month in a paddling pool with a tether, and then I mean you're saying you're in garden? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. So I was in that and then I um got allowed back to swim, and my mum was like, oh she know, I started before that actually. Yeah, yeah, sorry, I started before this. I actually had to move down, my coach got fired from my club team, and then I didn't have a coach. So then I had to move down to Dublin and do my school kind of hard like kind of remotely, uh uh so that I could swim at a high level still. And I saw really taking something that seriously now, but this was kind of a decision that was like, alright, this is make or break now, I've got to put everything into it. So I did that, and my mum couldn't live with me in Dublin because I was living in an athlete house and she lives in the north of Ireland, so it's like a two-hour drive. So uh she asked me if I would post YouTube videos to shit to show what I was doing.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's so cool.

SPEAKER_02

So that's how I started, and um I took a year off, um, like maybe uh 2022, uh, because I was like, I was like, oh, I don't have that many subscribers, I'm just posting uh such a grind parents to see. And then I started back uh towards the start of the towards the Olympics, like 2023 maybe, and then I just kept climbing, and then um I think I took a little bit of a break after Paris, and then I started again, and then I made a documentary series last year, and it was meant to be like a road to uh defending my Olympic my world title, and then I ended up getting a pedicide setup document my whole appendix uh surgery, and then uh I ended up getting like a massive boost. I went from 8,000 subscribers to like 40, and then um now I've just been posting a lot, posting what I'm doing in Cal. Dave Durlin used to be like this coach who was known for never sharing anything, and now I share everything.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I know. I want I watched some, it's really well done.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I like you. And now we're at like 92k on YouTube, so it's got I said as soon as you get 100k, then that's my life goal. Get my plaque.

SPEAKER_00

Get the plaque, yeah. My husband just got his plaque, and I was like salivating over it. I'm like, it's so it's so it's so fun, but I think you know, you make it look easy, like people who do a good job make it look easy, but talk about the hard side of it. Like, do you have an editor or is it just all you?

SPEAKER_02

I edit it myself. Wow, um, I edit everything myself. The hardest thing is filming the training sessions, and a lot of the time now I pay somebody to come and film me in the session because like I can't, I nobody wants to see me with a GoPro vlogging an easy session. They want to see me do the hard sets.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

So I was like, I didn't used to like sharing my sets, but now I've got to a stage where like they get leaked anyway from my trainer partners telling people what I do, so I may as well just post them myself and get the views for it. So now I just hire somebody to come in and film my hard set on a Tuesday night or a Thursday night, and then normally the I just yeah, and that's what people like to watch. So I just do that. That's the hardest part is uh having to like actually pay somebody to do something that I like to do.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, because I want to do everything myself, but then I do that. So uh that's the hardest part, and then I actually enjoy the editing and I like the comments. I never get any bad comments, which is great. I always get positive comments. It's a lot of swim parents who let their children watch it. Right. But that's actually another thing because I have to be careful what I say in the videos and the type of music because I've got a lot of complaints about if I put swearing in or something like that. Yeah. I have to bleep out people who come on my vlog and swear. So yeah, that's that that would be the hardest part. Trying to keep it, make sure that children can watch it, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I relate to that very, very, uh, very much. Because I've had some people come on here and just let stuff fly. We're like, we gotta believe that. So thank you for not swearing.

SPEAKER_01

No problem.

SPEAKER_00

Um, all right, we're gonna move on to some fun rapid fire. Um, so who apologizes first, you or Nathan, in a fight?

SPEAKER_02

It's a hard question. It's definitely Nathan. Okay, well, I feel like I do more wrong, so I feel like I just I'm more stubborn.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Do you think he would agree with that statement?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, he'd definitely agree. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Um, do you have any hidden hobbies that nobody knows about?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I I uh I play golf, I play basketball, but my hidden like thing that nobody well, I feel like a lot of people now know it, but didn't used to, was I used to be an actor. I used to be a child actor.

SPEAKER_00

I did read that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I was in Game of Thrones and then I was on a Netflix show with Nathan. Basically they use twins as like body doubles because they can get double the amount of hours out of children.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, it's kind of not like a nice thing to do for children, but that's how they get you to work, yeah, in in movies.

SPEAKER_00

Do you remember enjoying it or is it hard to remember?

SPEAKER_02

Uh I don't. I didn't never I've never watched Game of Thrones, so I've only watched up until the season I was in, and my parents won't want to be watching when I was in it, because obviously it's about 18 and I was like 13, I think.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Uh so um I I remember it like being very cool, and uh the main actors in Game of Thrones were all in the scenes I was in, so they were all very nice. And my sister was also in it, and she was a bit older, so she remembers it, and I've got photos, but yeah, I remember and I did it. I remember like some of the other stuff I did, which the Netflix stuff was pretty cool, and uh yeah, but I've not done anything since like 2014 or something like that.

SPEAKER_00

So is that something in your future after swimming?

SPEAKER_02

I don't know, I don't I don't think so. I feel like when you're out of it for a long time, then it's hard to get back into it. But maybe if there's a movie about daddy with it, I can star in it. But probably me making it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. You'll be the one producing it. Yeah, um, okay, biggest pet peeve and you can do in swim and just in regular life.

SPEAKER_02

Um, okay, in swim is um actually it happened to me this morning uh when I was swimming. Uh do you know, like when somebody's swimming backstroke and they like stroke your leg? Yes, yeah, yeah. That I don't like that.

SPEAKER_00

Like from the other lane.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, from like the other side.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's the worst.

SPEAKER_02

Or when you clash hands with somebody wearing paddles.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, no worse pain.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it is. I've got a scar under my eye from somebody hitting me with paddles.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god, I definitely have some scars on my eye.

SPEAKER_02

Um outside water, I would say like being late, uh like uh I'm always early, or like I or like if something's out of place, like I think I've got OCD, basically, is what I would say.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I actually just think that's courteous. Yeah. Like showing up on time, like I'm a very like you were like updating me when you were gonna get your idea. Yeah, I appreciated that. Like that is like really, I think, just nice and courteous. So um, okay, what is the weirdest American tradition in your opinion?

SPEAKER_02

I miss Thanksgiving, so I couldn't even say that one. I wasn't here, but like tradition of uh Americans say uh it's hard, or even like a phrase or phrase. Uh I mean I don't in California have some weird phrases like the swimmers say. I don't know, like um I don't even know, like it's not I wouldn't say it's weird, it's very different compared to what I'm used to, but uh I uh I can't even think, honestly, like a I honestly can't think of one that's weird.

SPEAKER_00

I've had uh forward athletes come on and be like, oh yeah, it's this, and I'm like, oh I know, we are weird.

SPEAKER_02

Well the what I think the worst thing about America so far is the breakfast. I don't think the breakfast is very good compared to Europe. I would agree with that. To Irish, to Irish breakfast anyway. Oh, it's definitely like I'm I'm having breakfast today, and it's just like like potatoes like that have been put in the oven and where we have like a full fry, like with sausages, eggs, everything.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, fake eggs at the hotel. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's tough. Um okay, what is a small luxury that you cannot live without?

SPEAKER_02

Uh my camera. I don't know if that's classified as a small luxury.

SPEAKER_00

I think it can.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. My camera, I bring it everywhere. I actually forgot to bring it here, but I uh I'm filming the whole meet. So uh yeah, uh I say my camera, I bring it everywhere.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, we're gonna go into our final three questions. We asked all of our guests. So the first one is what is a moment or memory inside the sport of swimming that's brought you the most joy?

SPEAKER_02

Um I'll go one that made I guess like me when in the Olympics was kind of a large door. I wouldn't say it was my favourite moment in swimming though. Okay. Um my favourite moment in swimming was actually when I broke the world record, short quarter meters. Uh the best thing is my parents weren't there to see it because they had to leave to go to a wedding. So why is that the best thing? Because it's quite funny because that's the only race you've ever missed.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02

But my older brother was there, so he got to see it with it with his girlfriend, and I was like, oh uh that that race for me stands out as one of the best sums I've ever put together, I think. And I've got the most joy out of it, I remember. Yeah, and um I uh the most the second joy I've ever got was uh my training partner Felix when he won the world champs in 21 in short course in Abu Dhabi. I the most joy I've ever felt. I actually get more hyped up for their races than my races. Like uh I always get emotional watching other people race, and I actually think now talking to them about when they watch me race, they get the same when I race, but because you have so much investment in these people, you train with them, you see them basically 24 hours a day that you have so much investment to their swims too, so you want them to swim fast. So his race, uh or he came forward for the Olympics. I think he sees that as a disappointment, but to me, I saw it as like it's kind of the one of the greatest things I'd see.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Watching other people that you love and cherish is unlike anything other, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe Nathan tonight if he wins and civilized.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say no pressure, Nathan.

SPEAKER_02

That'll definitely if he wins a top Y Olympic golf, I'd say that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're gonna like have to jump from well, you'll be on deck, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, uh no, I'm gonna be in the stance with all the parents.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, yeah, losing your mind.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, or sad access to my dad just watching it, just yeah, watching the splits. Yeah, that I don't really know what they mean.

SPEAKER_00

They're like, good, just get just get up there. All right, same question. What is a moment or memory outside the sport of swimming that's brought you the most amount of joy?

SPEAKER_02

Uh these ones are always hard. I feel like because my whole life is revolving around swimming that everything has a link to swimming.

SPEAKER_01

That's why we ask it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Like, I think like the some of the stuff that Nathan does, like in terms of like uh just like uh actually I've got a great story. For the whole uh Olympic cycle from Tokyo to well, kind of like I'd say from like 2022 to 2024, Nathan was like, I'm gonna cook all the meals so that you can get all the recovery into it. Even the Olympic year, he would sacrifice a lot of what he was doing to make sure that I would be perfect, everything. I think that that kind of stuff showed a lot to me that like he really wants me to succeed, like that kind of stuff, like cooking the meals, making sure that I can rest, cleaning the dishes, like the little things like all the like even like he didn't if I if we had a long drive, he would drive instead of me, stuff like that, uh tidying stuff away, like that kind of stuff went a long way for me. It's the reason why I won the Olympic goals because of the stuff he was doing for me and stuff like that. And I'm trying to repay at the moment because he was racing the before me, so I did a lot of stuff for him, but that that kind of stuff like that, you know.

SPEAKER_00

That's beautiful. All right, last question. What is a word that motivates you, inspires you, or just encompasses who you want to be on the daily?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, um a great I'm trying to think of a word that I'd like to use. I always like saying like incredible, it's like my word, or like I think, well, what's the word everybody makes fun of me and Kyle because I go uh I dominated. I just say dominated Leo. They love it when I say it and they start imitating me. But uh yeah, like that that kind of stuff, like the those kind of words, like the positive words to towards like what I'm gonna do, stuff like that. I love the quote from Timothy Chalamet, like when he says uh he's my favorite actor, and I I I every always asked, you know, when what who would you want to play in a movie about yourself? And I choose him. But he I think he was like, I'm on the quest, like I'm on the track for greatness. Like that's what he said, and that's what I kind of think a lot. I want that's what I want to say, that's what I want to be.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's that'll make you run through a brick wall. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Daniel. I appreciate the time. I know you're in between training and watching your brother, so this meant a lot. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Oh no, thanks very much. It was great.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.