More U Podcast
The More-U Podcast is all about how incredible individuals are helping others to get more of themselves and also how they built a business and brand for themselves in the process while still trying to stay human as good partners, spouses, parents and more. We will explore the world of medical aesthetics, plastic surgery, wellness, fitness, psychology and a whole lot more.
The show is hosted by Dr. Ben Caughlin, who is the leading cosmetic jaw surgeon in North America whose work has been described as nothing short of magic, but also a Tik Tok star that probably holds the record for publicly saying F*** more times than any other surgeon in history and Dominic Mazzone, Founder and CEO of MedSpa Partners, one of the largest and most successful consolidations of medical aesthetic clinics in North Americas and a serial entrepreneur with almost 19 businesses under his belt (some booming and some disasters).
Ben and Dom are able to extract the essence and nature from their guests, while also being vulnerable on how they're balancing being Type A titans during the day and humble dads and husbands at night. Learning, laughs, introspection and even a couple of fights!
More U Podcast
Dating Apps, Ghosting & Why Real Connection Feels So Hard | Matchmaker Katie Campbell
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode of More U, Dom and Dr. Ben sit down with professional matchmaker Katie Campbell to unpack why dating feels harder than ever.
From ghosting and unrealistic expectations to social media, dating apps, and fear of rejection, this conversation dives deep into what’s actually happening in modern relationships.
Katie explains why so many people struggle to communicate, why being single might actually be healthy, and what men and women are really looking for in relationships today.
This isn’t just a conversation about dating.
It’s a conversation about self-awareness, boundaries, communication, and human connection.
In this episode:
- Why dating feels broken in 2026
- What men and women actually want
- Why ghosting and dating apps changed relationships
- The biggest mistakes people make on first dates
- How matchmaking really works
- Why communication is the foundation of every relationship
- The truth about being single
Sometimes the hardest relationship to understand…
is the one you have with yourself.
🎧 Subscribe to More U Podcast for real conversations about relationships, growth, confidence, and becoming more aware.
📲 SOCIAL MEDIA
Podcast:
@more_u_official
Hosts:
@dominicmazzone1
@manyfacesofchicago
Guest:
@soul_matchmaking
#MoreUPodcast
#ModernDating
#Relationships
#DatingAdvice
#Matchmaking
What is matchmaking? What's the process? How does this how does it work?
SPEAKER_00It's a bit of a loaded question, and I get it all the time, and I never have the perfect answer.
SPEAKER_04The internet has kind of connected us more. It's actually like isolated people.
SPEAKER_00And I saw there's a big problem. There's a huge problem with dating right now. Men get really intimidated and they get scared to approach women because they have no idea how they're gonna react.
SPEAKER_03Well, well, well, here we are again, Ben. Uh more you podcast. This, I gotta tell you something. I am I was thinking about this podcast all day long.
SPEAKER_04I was like, I hope your wife's not listening, Dom.
SPEAKER_03No, not because of that, but we are so excited. Man, we are so excited to have Katie from from Soul Matchmaking with us. Katie Campbell, we are so excited to have you. Thank you so much for coming on. We have gazillion questions for you. Um but listen, first of all, thank you, thank you so much for being here.
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you for having me. It was um a nice invite.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, Katie and I got connected, and then we um we got connected, and then it was so when I saw like she's a matchmaker, I was like, she's gotta be on the More You podcast. Like this podcast is all about people getting more out of their selves. And um this to me is just fantastic and so fascinating. So, Katie, if we can, Dr. Ben and I I think want to start off with probably for most people, the most interesting question to start out with is how does someone become a matchmaker? How does that happen?
SPEAKER_00It's a bit of a loaded question, and I get it all the time, and I never have the perfect answer. Um, so I'll give a little bit of background. Um, I've worked many, many years in corporate finance, and I just thought I could sit in front of my computer plucking away the rest of my life and you know, shut my computer down at five and be done with it, um, which it doesn't work like that. And so eventually, like a lot of people, I just sort of got burnt out. You know, I really when I turned 35, uh, which I'm almost 40 now, I really took a look at my life and I said, what do I want out of my life? How do I want to, you know, have a life with my kids and at home and for myself and what makes me fulfilled? And I've always been, you know, into people and not necessarily connecting people through love, but connecting them in other ways. And I saw there's a big problem. There's a huge problem with dating right now. So I am a recovered people pleaser, but I want to be part of the solution to help people date better.
SPEAKER_04That is you know, uh, I know I'm just meeting you for the first time right now, uh Katie, but I have a bone to bone to pick with you already. Um uh because I think you connected to Dom, I'm assuming, to put him on there as a mate for people, and you just like you're just like, oh, who's this douche over here? You know, this plastic surgeon guy. So yeah, the fact that you selected Dom ahead of me to be like on your mating profile or whatever it is, or whatever.
SPEAKER_00You know, suggestions or whatever. Well, whatever.
SPEAKER_04Then I'm mad at the I'm mad at the universe for picking Dom over me to be a better mate.
SPEAKER_03I guess I would say I have a lot more interesting questions uh later, but I'd love if we can just foundationally, I think for people, I think A, what is matchmaking? And B how how what's the process? Like how does this how does it work? I think that would be so helpful for people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I'll say the biggest like misconception about matchmaking that I feel like everybody has, and you have to clarify, and almost every matchmaker will say the same thing, is we are here to make the introductions. We're here to vet people, make sure that you know your preferences are aligned with their preferences, and you know, you're being realistic, and we're here to make the introductions to somebody that you're compatible with and can build that future or that goal that you want. Um, a lot of people think that we are gonna carry you all the way through your relationship, and 30 years down the road, it's still gonna be on us to maintain it. And I always say, I can't, you know, maintain your relationship, I can't, you know, get that person to ask them to marry you, I can't, you know, tell them to have a baby with you. That's on you, or whatever your goals are at any age. Um, my job is to make the introductions and any matchmaker, that is our job. And you know, we coach and we help you in the beginning stages of that relationship, but it's up to you. It's up to you to figure out how far it goes and what you put into it and what you're gonna get out of it.
SPEAKER_04And people think, well Kate, it just sounds like such an opportunity to me. You just need a counselor on you as as at one of your services. Like, dude, this person just rides you through it, man. I think it's a whole nother arm of business for you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, bends right into the ancillary services. Um, that was helpful. That's really helpful. Like, I I think it's a it's about getting those introductions and and making them right. What's the process? I mean, do someone then contact you and say, look, I'm I'm really good for a May, and then and and like what's what's the process?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, I can't speak for all the matchmakers out there. Everyone is different and their business models are different. Uh, but for myself, it's you know, whether it's word of mouth that someone hears about me or I, you know, social media, or I actually have done a few other podcasts and I've you know had people come on board because they heard me on a podcast. So, whatever way you hear about me, um, some people just email me with like a bazillion questions saying, like, find me my mate, and you're like, Well, it's not quite that simple. Um, so for me, everyone has to fill out a submission form, it's on my website. So I do have a free database. So if you want to be in the free database, you know it's matchmaking isn't for everybody, and it's a big commitment. The and end is a big investment. So everyone has to fill the submission form, client or in the database, and then I review it, and it really gives me a good sense of who this person is. Uh, I don't take on everybody. Um, I want to be able to have a good relationship. I want with that client, I want to be able to help them. So if I feel like maybe that person and I aren't aligned, or they just aren't ready for a relationship, and I'm not gonna take them on and waste people's time. And then, you know, we have a consultation, that's always free. I don't charge for my consultations. Uh, some days I feel like I should, but I don't. And um then we decide if we're a fit to work together. I mean, the other person has to want to work with me and understand how I, you know, run my business, and we just sort of go from there. Just a lot of conversations. But I have a lot of people, they come to me and they're just like, I want this, this, and this. Can you find it for me? And you're like, it's just not so black and white.
SPEAKER_03So much off of that. You've been doing this now for a while, you're starting to you know understand it. When when people say that they want a relationship, are there signs where you're talking to them and hearing them and you're like, you don't want a relationship? Like you think you want a relationship, but you don't actually want a relationship.
SPEAKER_04You just want a Tinder, you just want a Tinder account. And again, are they still using Tinder?
SPEAKER_00Um I I've had like EV, I could talk for hours and hours on the type of people that I meet and um turn away. It just depends on your goals, too. So some people come to me, I have like younger men, typically like late 20s or late 30s, and they're like, I just want to gain confidence and I want to learn how to talk to women. And yeah, the end goal is to get married and have kids, but you know, I need to work on myself and figure out how to even have a relationship. And so my job is to help them through that process. Then I have some people, you know, who are in their 50s or 60s, they're already divorced, their kids are older, and they want companionship, and you know, they it's their second marriage or whatever, and so everyone's goals are different.
SPEAKER_04So that's I think you're you're gonna probably just get more and more popular because what's interesting is the fact that the the world wide web, the internet has kind of connected us more. It's actually like isolated people that much more to the to a magnification that nobody even understands, you know. I was in the or today and somebody asked me how I met my wife, and I was like, Oh, you know the bar hangy uppies? We met at the bar, and like the young guy, the young staff in the office, like, oh my god, he met his wife at the bar, like just randomly. I'm like, dude, that's how it used to be, man. Like, you didn't used to like close the app, look at their weight, height, wrist, you know, breast size, and you can just like it's just not how it worked, you know, and nobody can do that anymore. So it's just not even the opportunity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I always encourage people to like when you're out and about, even if you're working with me or not, like if you're out, take a look around. Like if you're standing in line at the local coffee shop waiting for your latte, like and you see a woman waiting too, like you don't have to be aggressive approaching her, but like there's nothing wrong with starting a conversation. And the big issue is, and not this isn't everybody, I'm not labeling everyone, but like women can be really aggressive if they're not into you. Like if a man approaches a woman in the coffee shop and she's not interested, or maybe she's not single, the polite thing to do is say, Oh, you know, I'm flattered, thank you, but I'm not interested. And you move on with your day. But some women are like they get really aggressive and mean and they'll shut that man down or insult him or cause a scene, and then men get really intimidated and they get scared to approach women because they have no idea how they're gonna react. I mean, there is a thing called human decency, and like, you know, you could just politely say no, thank you.
SPEAKER_03Katie, you're you're right, like the right thing, the right thing to say is hey, that's so sweet. Thank you. Like you're saying so much, so flattering. I'm I'm I'm not available, but thank you so much, like whatever it is. But I think when I talk to when I talk to younger guys, they're saying when we're at a bar, we feel like women don't want us to approach them anymore. Like we feel that that's not how things are done anymore, which I think is the which I think is lunacy. Do you think that's more along the lines of that's actually what's happening in the world, or is it just that's how men are feeling?
SPEAKER_00I think it's a little bit of both. And it goes into that idea that men are scared to approach women because they don't know how she's gonna react. But women always complain, they're like, oh, no one ever comes up and just talks to you anymore. And you're like, well, because your body language sucks and your attitude sucks, and maybe he's not your type, maybe like those first visual instincts, oh yeah, he's not my type. That's that's okay, but you can politely turn him down, and then his confidence isn't like you know, destroyed for the next six months because you know, some woman beat him to the ground.
SPEAKER_04Um what what per what percentage of your patients is um uh I guess there now there's a lot there's a lot of categories, but I'm just gonna keep it simple, like uh uh female versus male, and then gay versus straight. Like what are some of the percentages of your overall? Is there like a staggering number either way?
SPEAKER_00Uh so I now only work with men. So I I do have two female clients still, um, but my new business model is I only take on men. I'll still meet with women, but I'm very open and honest with them. So my database is typically like a ton of women, um, and then my clients are men, but I'm okay to veer off from that for sure. Just depends on the person.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't have any like queer clients, but I have like friends and they're like, come on, like find me somebody. And you're like, your pool is small, but the problem is the pool in the queer communities, everyone knows everybody, and everyone's already, you know, like it just depends, like I guess they're already cut where you're located as well. Um but I don't sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03Was your decision? Um I I I'm gonna actually try to give the answer in the question to make it easier for you. Did you decide to work with now men primarily more because of the need, or do you find it that they just need more help?
SPEAKER_00No, I think women need just as much help as men, a hundred percent. I take on, I don't want this to sound like you know, a weird business model, but like I only take on men because it's easier to find women who are open to this process. Um, I find it a lot harder to find just like a whole bunch of men to match with women. Um, men are they think it's a weird process and they're like, oh no, you know, I'm not dating or I'm not open to it, or you know, whatever the reason.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so you're just more you're just more successful with the guys.
SPEAKER_00Women are more open and vulnerable, and they're like, matchmaking, yeah, like set me up with somebody, but um men just aren't as open as women are, so it's a lot easier to find tons of women to bring in for the small amount of men that I work with.
SPEAKER_04I don't know. I was just looking at your forum while we were chatting. Um, I don't know if if you track this well or not. I'm sure you do or you will be shortly with the AI of the world. There's the classic, like, you know, the men want the young, hot woman and the women want the rich man. And there's like that, you know, there's like those ratios people show and stuff. Is it does that line up? Does is that data line up with the what the women want and what the men want essentially? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's very yeah, it's very natural. Men like to date younger, it's just the way it is, and women women are more open to dating younger as well now. Um, but I mean, normally women like to date older. But um, yeah, like those stereotypes are very real. Uh and like men, men are very visual when they date or when they meet someone or they're first, you know, encountering someone, they look at looks physically, and that's just in your nature. Women, you know, attraction grows for most women, not everyone, but for the most part, attraction grows. So, like, we want to have the safety and the communication and whatever else makes us more attracted to somebody. Men want that as well, but it kind of comes second. So they're like, Looks first, emotional safety, uh, whatever else your values comes after, but women it's the opposite. So there's a big issue with trying to connect those you know, steps because they're different.
SPEAKER_03And Katie, I I'm curious. So you have uh a man who comes to you and he's like, I want a relationship. How do you go out and find the the the the women? How does how does that work?
SPEAKER_00Um it's just about people, like knowing people, and there's a big thing where like people are like, Oh, I'm single, and just because they're single doesn't mean we're a match. Just the only thing in common you have is being single. Um so I get to know everyone on a pretty uh deep level, and I always tell all my clients this is a safe space, and I've heard lots of stuff that I never thought I would hear from men, you know, and why they are the way they are, and you know, those are things we work through with the coaching. Um, and then I just have to, you know, you do it on just so it's like a pool like you're following.
SPEAKER_03Is it almost like executive search where you're just kind of building a like a like a pool of offices?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's sort of like narrowing it down. So people have their preferences. I always say they're nice to have, but some people think they're non-negotiables. So the amount of women who come into my database and they're like, they have to be over six feet. That's a non-negotiable.
SPEAKER_03And I'm out like I'm out. I'm I mean, I'm married, but I would be out.
SPEAKER_00But it's ridiculous to me. It's like if you had a I had women turn um my one client down, he's 5'10, and you're like, you're five six, and he's five ten. That is a lovely height difference. There's no issues, and no, he has to be over six feet, and you're like, the amount of single men in your geographical area and blah blah blah who are single is so small, like you'll be single forever. Like it's just girls want to like give their head a shake sometimes, but you have to just narrow it down, figure out what people want, and like I'm very open and honest with my clients saying, Okay, like that's nice, but like this is what you need, and you like I'm making you give this person a chance, and then you'll see what you actually need in a relationship.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that makes sense. Ben, you see that man my size, I had an incredible game for a guy my size. I'm just like, no, but you know, could have never got my wife without game. Speaking of game, I'm with you, Katie. Do you because you were talking about the coaching? Are you actually like kind of coaching these guys to have game? Like it just it sounds like you are, which is fascinating. What was that that show called Hitch?
SPEAKER_04Wasn't that Hitch with Willie?
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, I mean, it that role in that movie is actually like a great role to help men who just need a little extra confidence push push. Yeah, so I do coaching like separately. I don't really focus on it a ton, but like all my packages and all my clients get like coaching. Um, so everyone's different, everyone has different goals, and everyone, some people just need to get through the first date. Maybe it's just how they dress, you know, maybe it's where they're taking their date. You know, it could be such simple things that they just like meet a little tweak on. And same with women too. Like, even if she's not my client, but I'm sending her out on a date with someone, I meet with her and go, okay, like, you know, what do you like? What do you want to do on this date? Like, what's your personality? What's this, that, and the other, so that they both have a good date. People get stressed out about first dates. I can't believe how stressed out people get about them. And I always say the goal of a first date is to just have fun and figure out if you want to go on a second date to learn more about this person. It doesn't have to be a marathon, you don't have to spend like seven hours with this person, you know, you don't have to plan your whole life, you don't have to talk about all your traumas and why you are the way you are. You just go out, have fun, and decide if you want to learn more. Like it's baby steps.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and that's the thing. I mean, the the this younger generation, man, they they don't have normal. I mean, they these you're that's why you're gonna see even more. The I don't know the average age, but the the people that went through high school during COVID, those poor kids, they're gonna have lost, like they're gonna be missing parts of their brain, you know what I mean? So they just they don't know how to communicate uh, I think to strangers, like in person, like one-on-one when you could like touch each other.
SPEAKER_00They're like they're weird, they're weird about there's a lot of like social issues right now, and it's not even just the younger kids, it's people who are older in their 40s, 50s, 50s. Like, I don't I haven't quite figured out why and what it is and why people are reverting back. Like, you know, if someone's 50 or 60 and they were dating in the 90s or early 2000s, like you didn't have social media and you went out, met people, and talked to people. Why are you reverting back to the city?
SPEAKER_04But I think I think, yeah, I think you you kind of if you don't uh use it, you lose it. I think you can lose that pretty quickly. If you all of a sudden become addicted to Instagram, TikTok, and you don't see people in person for a year, literally, you know, legitimately for six months, or I think people can revert back pretty quickly. That that social interaction is something that needs to be frequent and maintained to to like any exercise, like going to the gym. You know, you you go to the gym straight for three months, you look great. You stop in a month and you're like, I'm bad again. You know, so it's I think it's that. I think it's that we talked earlier, uh Dom about it. Um, the uh how would you say um social exercise?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I I totally agree. Like, I don't promote dating apps a ton, but they can work if you like really put the time in and you go in with a good attitude and you know how to like you know vet people and set boundaries, but there are a lot of bad people on there who don't really give a shit about anything. Um, and social media too, like we're just all addicted to our phones, and that's a a real problem. Like it's a social issue and at any age.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um I I wanted to ask you do opposites actually attract? Is that a thing?
SPEAKER_00Uh to a certain degree, yes. I think when you think if someone's an extrovert and someone's an introvert, they can mesh very well together. I don't believe that you like, let's say I always use like golf, for instance, and like some people really like golf, and some people are like they have to like golf, and you're like, no, it's okay if they have different hobbies and you know have a totally different career or whatever it is, or even like wet. Weight or physical, you know, attributions, like they can be different than what you think you want, and it can be a very healthy relationship. If your values and like long-term goals are different, and like even political, I mean, right now politics is huge. Like, if those are different, it it's you're kind of doomed, to be honest.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but we're a tumultuous household.
SPEAKER_00It depends how opposite you are, but there are certain things that definitely can work if you're not aligned.
SPEAKER_03Katie, what is there is I mean, in all your experience here, are there kind of certain things that you really can point to that make a good match?
SPEAKER_00I always the biggest biggest thing in relationships is communication. And there's different types of communication. So I think as long as your core values are aligned and your long-term goals and like who you are as people are similar, if you have good communication and good problem solving skills, you can make any relationship successful and healthy. But there is a real lack in communication in our society, and people don't know how to communicate, or they don't want to communicate, or they think that like one small little error in judgment, or one small little you know, fight is just the end of the world, you're done, on to the next. And it's like, no, like you have to be able to communicate and communicate the good things and the bad things and set boundaries and communicate those boundaries, and you know, people are just so quick to give up because they don't communicate or they don't know how to communicate. And I always say, like, when we are younger, and you know, I think a lot of people like their parents didn't teach them relationship standards, I guess, like how to communicate in relationships, how to set boundaries in relationships, how to like even the physical and intimacy part of relationships, we were never taught that. You just kind of like figured it out as you went along in relationships, and people a lot of people don't even know what a relationship is and what it's supposed to be.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you you gotta create some standard uh operating procedures, you know, like a list of things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a big thing. Like, I mean, because of the industry I'm in, I have a 16-year-old son, and we are very open. Like, I'm open with him about how you treat a woman, how you should be treated, and like the things you talk about, the things you do, the things you don't do. And you know, a lot of I'm not blaming parents or any generation of parents, but like that stuff isn't always talked about, and then kind of set them into the wild and they don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that makes sense. And Katie, um, maybe an odd question. Do people know what they want?
SPEAKER_00No, not at all. Um I mean, people they just say, Oh, I want to be with somebody. You're like, great, like, I don't know, go bowling or something and find someone, you know, just do something if you want to be around people. But I always say, get a piece of paper and write down what a relationship means to you, what you want out of having someone in your life, you know, and what you contribute to that relationship. And a lot of people can't do that. They can't, they're like, oh, I haven't thought about that stuff. You know, like, well, it's it's really basic, it's really basic stuff going into relationship, and people don't think about it, they just go next, next, next, next, next, and when they don't find what they're looking for, they next, but everyone complains, but they're just as guilty as the person they're complaining about. Yeah, so having goals and figuring out what dating is to you and what you want out of it is really important, and a lot of people do not know that.
SPEAKER_03And Katie, I want to just go back on something with what you said, which I I want to make sure we understand really when you know, if we think of a primal like baseline thing for a guy, is is attraction at the very top of the list.
SPEAKER_00And not for everybody, no, okay. Um for some people for sure.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Um I so if I'm bringing a client on and like we meet and we're having a consultation, I always say, I'm like, I won't take you on if you are not open-minded. I understand what you're looking for, but I want you to be realistic, and I want you to look in the mirror as well, because you have to mirror what you want. And but yeah, some of them, you know, looks is very high, which I always say if you're gonna lay in bed with this person, you have to be attracted to them at some level. It can grow, it cannot grow, but yes, you have to be physically attracted to this person. But if you want a long-term relationship with someone, there are other things that are important besides what their face looks like and what their body looks like.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, absolutely. Because you're I mean, you're talking about relationships, you're not doing hookups, you're doing relationships.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, big difference. Yeah, it's a huge difference.
SPEAKER_03What's the um I know this I we kind of talked about it, but I want to ask you the question in maybe a different way is like what is the state of relationships in 2026 and and uh like what what what is what is it now? Because it seems when I talk to younger folks, and I have a you know, I've a I have an incredibly handsome 21-year-old son who I could tell is super shy. And I don't know if that's also a piece of what's out there in the world right now where it's harder to meet people. Like, what is the state of relationships in 26?
SPEAKER_00Uh I think we've kind of almost come full circle, and people are going, I like being single, and I I promote being single. Absolutely. You should be single between each relationship. Be single because the relationship you have with yourself is the longest relationship you're ever gonna have from birth to death, and some people forget that they're important too. Um, so I always say be single. And so I think in 2026, people are being single and they're figuring out who they are and what they want, and they're setting boundaries and they're not, you know, dealing with people's bullshit, which I totally agree with. Um, I always say, like, don't date potential, date who they are. So if they're not gonna find, you know, if someone's showing them on the first date who they are, then you know they're done with it, which is great. Um, so I think people are really taking a step back from dating and just doing doing whatever makes them happy, which I think is great.
SPEAKER_03So state of relationships in 2026 is being single. That's gotta be that's a clip, and that's a clip because that's big.
SPEAKER_04And uh said says the max match. Uh even more so. Like, uh, and you said it's great. You're wrong, it's not good for you, Katie. You're wrong. No, because you're saying the wrong thing. You want people to hook up.
SPEAKER_00People need to figure out what they want from themselves in a relationship, and like you can't just be super damaged and go into the next relationship, and then like you're just gonna be in this like toxic cycle. So, you know, people in 2026, everyone's like, No, I want to be single, I wanna do me, I wanna go travel by myself, I wanna do whatever solo, which I think is good because then they can come back, and maybe dating will be like so much better, where people won't ghost people anymore and they'll respect people, and then you know, know what a healthy relationship is, and then so hoping it's coming full circle.
SPEAKER_03Katie, how many matches do you have to make on average, you think, till someone finds somebody? Uh, I'm sure it's different all the time, but I mean, I don't know if it's like, yeah, it's gonna probably take a few matches to try that.
SPEAKER_00Everyone is different, and I have some really eligible men where I have no issues sending them out with people, and um, I have people it takes work on my end, which is what you're paying me for, to go find them what they need and what they want. And some people it's the second date, and some people, you know, it's date seven, eight, and some people it's nobody, you know. Sometimes it doesn't work out.
SPEAKER_03And is there a lot of thought around the crafting of the first date? Like, is that someone that she's thinking about, or is that just no natural? It's it's coffee, it's dinner, it's whatever.
SPEAKER_00I always plan the dates to a certain degree, like that is what you're paying me for. I want people to have fun, like I said. Some people like to go for dinner dates, and that's fine. Um, a lot of people actually don't like dinner dates because they're eating yeah, it's like an interview, but like their you know, mouth is full of food, and then they it's like you're covering, you're it's awkward, and um it's not fun, it's like like question and answer period. So I always encourage doing activity-based dates. Not everyone is into them, but like I always say bowling. I'm like, it's fun, it's like you're like a child, you can just whatever. But as long as there's a period in that date where you are face to face with that person and you're talking and like getting to know each other, because obviously when you're bowling or doing some other activity or I don't know, axe throwing or whatever, um, you're not necessarily looking at that person and talking, but you're still in a fun environment because people get stressed out and they have like everyone's got anxiety. So, first dates, you know, are so stressful for people that if you go do something fun and relaxed, you know, maybe you didn't learn a lot about that person on the first date, but at least going into the second date, you know, you've already met them, you're more calm, you know a little bit about them, and then you can maybe it's gotta it's gotta take some a lot of the pressure off too if you are involved in the planning process because they can always be like, Yeah, this place Katie chose sucks, man.
SPEAKER_04We should go do something different, you know. Like so I I would imagine.
SPEAKER_00I did have one client like a month ago, and he was like, uh, I was like, How is the restaurant choice? Like, I've never been there. I just you know googled it because that's where you guys were located. And he's like, It wasn't good. He's like, the owner just talked to us a lot, and it was hard for us to talk because like the white staff kept coming over, and he's like, We are the only ones there, and I was like, ooh, cross that off my list. We'll go back there.
SPEAKER_03Katie, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask craziest first date that you've seen. Is there one that just overhead?
SPEAKER_00No, I don't have any like you know, phone calls that have happened after drilling me on how horrible it was. Um I think that's where you know my job comes into play is like setting you up with someone you're not gonna have a horrible first date with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, and sometimes I let them choose where they go, and then sometimes I choose, and it just depends on, you know.
SPEAKER_04Do you ever do you ever just be like, screw it, man? I'm gonna do the opposite of what I think, and be like, this I think this girl is good for this guy, but there's this other chick that, you know, let's just see how it goes.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, I do have like one or two clients where they're more open to just dating. Um, you know, they have a long-term goal, but they're also okay with just going out with whoever and just trying out whatever, yeah. So I take that, you know, that's what they want.
SPEAKER_03I was just thinking, I was just thinking, like, how often does the date happen? And then you get a call from both of them saying, Oh my god, it was fantastic. That was great. Does that how often does that yeah?
SPEAKER_04Do do you do like post-date uh um like recaps with both? Yeah, so you should record those and put them on the internet or something, dude.
SPEAKER_00Some people go out on like blind dates, like they know they've seen a picture and they like have a general idea, but they like meet at the restaurant, reservations under my name. Um, they've never exchanged phone numbers. And I do have rules where unless they've already exchanged a number for some weird circumstance, there's no exchanging phone numbers after the date. That's just like a comfort thing.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's super helpful. I can see why that's really helpful. There's no pressure then.
SPEAKER_00There's no pressure, and it's like, you know, maybe he asked for her number, but she's uninterested, and but people give their numbers because they're being polite. There's just like I do the rejecting for the people if they don't want to go out again. Um, and I always say two drink maximum for safety reasons of getting home safely, making decisions, uh, and no, going home with each other on the first date.
SPEAKER_04Because that's not what we're doing here. Yeah, but you've been bored. Hold on. What are you gonna do? Are you gonna call the cops? I mean, come on.
SPEAKER_00But I never had an issue so far that I know of.
SPEAKER_03She knows it. Nobody wants to tell mom that they they went home with each other. Wow.
SPEAKER_00Get a big lecture.
SPEAKER_03I'm sorry, that mind just processing that. That's so cool. I I mean, by the way, so smart to say no exchange of numbers. That just so takes the pressure off of like what's gonna happen after any of those kind of things. Have you have you had marriages come out of this?
SPEAKER_00I have not, no.
SPEAKER_03No, no marriages.
SPEAKER_00No marriages, they're actually more rare than people think. Um and obviously it just depends on yeah, it depends on their goals too, but like matchmakers love. It love celebrating marriages, but it is rare to be honest.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_04And you're like five years in.
SPEAKER_00I always say that too.
SPEAKER_03I'm like, I haven't been around long enough, but like it's yeah, I think you know, so I think it's interesting, though, maybe a little bit of sign of the times too, in the sense of people are fine being with each other.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I deal with a lot of men who are in their 50s typically. Like I do 40s, some 30s. Um, but when you're older, a lot of them don't want to get married again. It's messy, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Financials and kids.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it just depends on what people are looking for.
SPEAKER_03So so that they're they're in a they're in a nice long relationship, they're just not getting married.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it just depends, like what that's the thing too. It's like I ask people, do you want to get married or do I do you want to get married again? Do you want to like cohabitate? You know, if those don't align with someone, even though everything else is perfect, I don't typically set them up because what's the point? You know, down the road, you're gonna be someone's gonna be like, No, I don't want to get married and live with someone ever again in my life, but this person's now pressured because this other person's pressuring them to get married, and those are values that don't align. So my job is to help them, you know, meet someone who aligns with what they're looking for.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and and when we talk about that alignment, like let's take for women, for instance, like what would you say are the top three things that are most important to them?
SPEAKER_00Uh emotional intelligence that is like always number one on every woman's submission form, is someone who's intelligent emotionally. Um it's it's really sad. And safety too. They want to feel safe.
SPEAKER_03Um okay, that's an important one. Someone that makes them feel someone that makes them feel safe, or it's just they're not overly aggressive and and well, both.
SPEAKER_00I mean, okay, most women don't want to get hit or anything, you know. So, you know, that safety of being with someone, but that means like, oh, I can tell you something and you're not gonna blow up, you know, that's safety, and you know, it it can mean different things to different people, right? Um, but I see this on so many profiles from women, and it makes me really sad to see it. But they go, Oh, he just has to like have a job, and you're like, Okay, just the job.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, any job. Just yeah, I was gonna say so far, like I'm you know, checking a few boxes here, you know.
SPEAKER_00The standards are so low, and I'm like, oh my gosh, like it's tough out there if they're you know working with a matchmaker and all they want is someone with a job, you know.
SPEAKER_03Um, I've been hearing sorry, but I've been hearing this. There's like a lot of guys out there, single guys that just that don't have a job. Or and I guess having their own place is kind of important. I mean, obviously.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I get that too. They're like, oh, they must have their own place. And me, I'm like, if you're living for someone in their 40s, where else are they? Like, where are they living? Like, I don't know. I guess I just don't understand it. Like, they've obviously met people in the past where those things weren't um lined up, so but you know what I you know what I didn't hear, which was so interesting, Katie, at least of what you spoke about.
SPEAKER_03I didn't hear like I'm sure it's part of it, don't get me wrong, but the three top things that came to your mind wasn't actually like they gotta be good looking or something like that, where I'm guessing conversely that is, but I was interested to hear that. You know, I heard emotional intelligence, I heard um security and safety. Uh I also heard they had to have a job.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, with women, um looks are usually not like the first couple things on their priority list, and usually it's women who've already been through relationships, you know, they're divorced or older or whatever it is. Um, like I said, you know, looks are important, and women obviously they want to be attracted to the man they're with, but it's not first thing on their list. And most men um in their profiles, like looks are in the the very important, you know, box.
SPEAKER_03That's like for so top three for men would be looks. Yeah, and what would you say?
SPEAKER_00What would you say that the next um I get almost 99.9% of the people, men and women, always say someone kind. And I just feel like that's like basic, to be honest. Like that's just like basic human being, but uh that's the trauma people are dealing with with dating is like kind of so rare, which yeah, it's sad to me to be honest. I read these profiles and I'm like, oh man, it is not good out there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean, you know, yeah, that's table. That you would think that was kind of like table stakes. Um Katie, why don't you just um let I want to ask you this question, and and you, you know, your comfort level on it is is is totally fine whether you want to do it. Like uh like a range, like what does something like this cost for someone? I think people would want to know that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that would be um so every matchmaker is different, and they have different rules to their packages. Um so I always say like the all-inclusive resort package. You pay and you get whatever we need to do. You get unlimited dates if needed. You can reject people as much as you want. If you're rejecting like everybody and like 15 women go by and you have not gone out with them because you keep saying no, we're gonna have a conversation about why. Um, but everything is all inclusive in my packages. I they range as well. Like my lowest one is 3,000 and my highest one is 10,000. That's not that's totally that's honest, like that's actually really cheap compared to other businesses.
SPEAKER_04And you're super reasonable. But wait, is that like a month or a year?
SPEAKER_00No, they have different timelines and like offer different things. Um I actually one of my clients is a very well-known businessman in Toronto, and he like hates that I don't charge more. He's like, I can't stand the way you operate as a business.
SPEAKER_01And I'm like you're driving crazy.
SPEAKER_00But I I came into this to like help people, and like I'm an honest, you know, person, and I don't not here to steal people's money and not deliver, and so I'm I guess a little more generous with my prices. You um maybe should charge more. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03You write her up on the kind um, you're right up on the kind. Yeah, that's what she's trying to remember. That way that's important for guys. I just want you to know that guys think that kindness is also important. So um, anyway, um, Katie, how many? Um, I mean, it seems like you can handle lots of clients at once, and it the probably the more clients the better because you got a bigger pool and that kind of stuff. Like, what's the what's the sweet spot on that?
SPEAKER_00Uh not necessarily. Um, I only take on so many people because it just me. Um, I like I consider myself like a boutique style business, so it's just me. I don't have anyone else working for me, so I can only take on so many people, but I also don't want to like overload myself and like not have the time to spend with each client. So I think people think. It's easy, and I just like get out my roll of decks and go, okay, you're going out with this person, and it's not, it's actually much harder than I thought it would be to like work with clients and deal with their needs, and even like finding them matches and then communicating with those matches and like trying to set things up, and like I get ghosted all the time, like it's wild how much the matchmaker gets ghosted, even before that you know they meet somebody or get to know them. So there's a ton involved, and you know, when you have to add in, you know, coaching them, and maybe they don't think they need it, but they do need it. And um there's a reason matchmakers are an investment because it is a lot of work and people don't think it is, but when you get married, yeah. Like I have a lot more gray hair than I did when I before I started because it's very stressful.
SPEAKER_03Does this require you to be out at night? Like you have to be out?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_00So some matchmakers do like you know, singles events and whatnot. I have done a few, they're okay. Um, I kind of find it a bit of a waste sometimes and a waste for people who come to them. Um, so no, I'm I you can work from anywhere. So I'm based here in Ontario, so a majority of my clients are here. Um, but I also work with clients in the US. Um, my database has lots of people from the US, and I'm working on expanding into like Western Europe as well. Um you don't need to be there where they are to find them much.
SPEAKER_03It seems like you got you could have pretty good uh life balance, you know, for for your children and and whatnot. Do you feel that way? Do you feel like you have pretty good balance?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Now that I I mean running your own business is like the worst sometimes because you have to do everything and you can't just turn it off at the end of the day and let your manager figure it out. You know, you're in charge of everything. Um but like when I was working in the corporate world, like I was so stressed out all the time. You know, you're working 12, 14 hours because you're just at home, always on your computer, and you know, everything changes so quickly. So I was I I I'm very open that I was not the nicest to my kids sometimes, and I because I was so stressed out and trying to figure it all out and get them where they need to go, make them dinner, but still had all these deadlines. Um, so I have a much nicer work-life balance because you can do whatever you want whenever you want, but I usually work at night a lot too.
SPEAKER_03That's that's really good. And but you say that all of your business is coming just from referrals at this point now? Is it or or how does it work?
SPEAKER_00Uh about half of it. Um I kind of have a cap, you know, I obviously can't take on everybody, so I put people on a wait list if needed. Um yeah, I have a lot of referrals now. Um and just word of mouth, which you know, it's hard to get that when you're first starting, you're out there. I used to do like trade shows and you know, conferences and events, and like I used to literally take like flyers and put them on people's cars just to like get my name out there and then you know, now it's flowed through Ontario and into the US. So it's um it's nice.
SPEAKER_03I love this story.
SPEAKER_00See, I get excited when I have people from the US that come to me and I'm like, oh my gosh, people from the US have heard about me. And um I do get people over in Europe, but I'm just like not quite there yet with my how do you uh how do you because it sounds like you're like you said, working mostly with men, how do you build the other side?
SPEAKER_04Because um those the the the the women side don't pay you, I assume, right? They're just there for free. They're yeah, they're yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I use social media a lot to bring in women. Um you find more you know, better quality women on social media than you do men. Um the men that come to me, it's usually just word of mouth, or they've they've gone and googled like where to find a matchmaker, and yeah, you know, they're intentionally looking for this type of help.
SPEAKER_04You know, I I used to joke, I'm a plastic surgeon, so um uh I I kind of joke that my job is also to get people laid. Um uh but um in that we should have a matchmaker, like I could be a matchmaker.
SPEAKER_03My job is not to get people laid, it's relationships for Christ's sakes.
SPEAKER_04I mean, go ahead, but go ahead, like we'll we'll see. I want everybody, everybody on the internet right now can respond to that statement and we'll see who wins. Uh um, but um I do about 40% men, I do a lot of men actually, because I'm like all jaw and stuff. So, and I mean, while I do do married couples and I, you know, I do people that are dating each other, the large majority of people are trying to look more attractive, you know, to get in a relationship, as Dom would say. Um but uh I joke that I should be a matchmaker. I should just like go through my system and be like, oh, I did that guy, he's a pretty good looking guy, and that chick, and they were they were kind of fun, they would do well together. So it was just fine.
SPEAKER_00Well, I you know I'm happy to like send you a referral, you know, send them like the one nice thing about like my industry is there's so many matchmakers out there, and we work really closely together. So I've been told like you know, maybe 10-15 years ago, it was so competitive. It was this like tooth and nail to get clients and whatever, and they know and work together. But now, like we have like matchmaker groups and we all work together to yeah, like so. I have a handful, I'm not a handful, like three matchmakers in the area of Ontario that I work with. I go, Hey, do you have someone for this person? They'll say, Hey, do you have someone for that person? And you work together. Or, you know, if I have a client who's in the States and I've sort of run out of options or I need help, I'll find a matchmaker in that area and say, Hey, do you have someone? And we all work together. Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04I mean, help people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You need a couple women or men that are like helping the women, you know what I mean? It's like a no brainer, yeah.
SPEAKER_00There's some matchmakers I won't work with. I don't think that they're in it for the right reasons, and I've figured out who they are. Um, but there are a couple that were close and we all work together.
SPEAKER_04I'm gonna open a business that's the matchmaker for the matchmaker.
SPEAKER_03Well, I was getting to that.
SPEAKER_00So it's a conversation, yeah, with matchmakers. We're like, okay, we need to start a subgroup for single matchmakers, and we're gonna help each other. It's it's uh we've already talked about it.
SPEAKER_03We're on it. First of all, I'm I'm I'm really I'm really surprised that there's lots of matchmakers. I didn't know that that was a thing. Yeah, I saw that.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if lots is the right word, but there are uh, you know, they're out there for sure.
SPEAKER_03Um, and Katie, I I don't know um if if if you're married or not married, but I'm just curious about how matchmaking has changed you in like what all the things you've seen. I mean, has that has that is it somehow changed you or changed your perception on things?
SPEAKER_00A little bit. I'll I'll tread lightly on my words to not make myself sound too bitter.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um like I am single, um, and I choose to be single. Um, and I do that because I just don't have anything to give to somebody, and I'm aware of that because I have my business and my children and my social life, and I'm very happy with that. You know, I see a lot. I see a lot of people, I talk to a lot of people, I see people who aren't very nice and people who are wonderful. So it it helps me do my job learning all these different people and why they are the way they are. Yeah, it I don't know. I don't know if it makes me some days I have I'm very frustrated and I want to just throw my hands up in the air and quit. And some days I go, oh my god, like this is why I love doing this. Um so every day is different.
SPEAKER_03That's great. Oh, that's really great. Um we have this thing that we always do, and we, you know, on on this podcast, we we get to talk to people in aesthetic medicine and surgeons and all kinds of different things. And one of the questions we always ask them for them is like, what in their industry, you know, do they think is is like absolutely magic? And I think I would just change that a little bit for this conversation, which is you know, if there's one trait that you see or or one thing that holds to be true in dating, like what is the thing that is just true, like the one thing that you can count on to say, like, when it comes to dating, this is the thing. This is this is actually true. If you, you know, this is not just a fallacy or what people think, this this is actually a real thing.
SPEAKER_00I think I'll start with saying, like, when I got into this business, and the one thing I was trying to make sure I figured out I said love is recession proof. So that's what kind of where I started. So then you know, we are human beings, and as much as even I say I'm like, Oh, I'm not ready for a relationship, I don't want to be one, everyone wants to be loved, everybody needs that human connection, whether it's with your family, your friends, or a partner, your coworkers, that connection is so important. And I think if we're all just a little kinder to each other and you know, give people the time of day, whatever, in whatever scenario. Um in dating, you know, we all want love. We just you have to make sure you're ready for it and just be kind to one another. Be kind. Everyone wants kindness, everyone said they want it, so let's be kind.
SPEAKER_03I love that. Can we take the other side of that? Um, what is something out there that you think like people say or talk about? And it's like it's bullshit. That that's not true. That's that's that's not a thing.
SPEAKER_00Uh, that there are no good people out there or no good singles out there. I get that all the time. Oh, there's no one good out there, uh, I just give up, I'm gonna be single forever. And you're like, no, there are so many good men out there, there's so many good women out there, but you're going about it the wrong way, so you're gonna get what you give. So, you know, if you kind of take a step back and figure out, you know, what you're looking for, you'll find that person. But you do have to put work in. Like, people are like, Oh, I'll just I'll just wait for it to happen naturally. You're like, Well, you don't leave your house, you have to leave your house to go find somebody, you know, or whatever it is. You do have to intentionally go out and look for it, but you know, still be an individual. And I always say that too like when you're in a relationship, still be an individual, have your own individual self, hobbies, job, whatever it is. Like, don't forget who you are just because you're with somebody. Um, because you never know what could happen, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh shit, like I don't know who I am anymore. Um, so yeah, everyone's away, there's no one good out there. When you're like, there is, you just you gotta find it.
SPEAKER_02You gotta be a you just need a matchmaker. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think people just don't know how to give anyone a chance in any aspect, like not even just relationships. People are just so jaded and bitter and tired and overwhelmed with just the world in general, that they bring that into the in into their daily lives, and yeah, you're not gonna find good people when you're not really a good person or you're not projecting you know kindness.
SPEAKER_03So it's a very good point. Yeah, I think I think you're right. I think you said it earlier too, which is I want this and I want this and I want this and I want this, and it's like, okay, look in the mirror. Um, is that what we're putting out there? Because that's your first step.
SPEAKER_00That's a big thing. I like I I don't want to hurt people's feelings, but I'm like, have you um done these things that you want from somebody, you know, or whatever it is? And a lot of them will kind of go back, oh uh, uh, uh, yeah, of course I have. And you're like, no, you haven't.
SPEAKER_03Have you? Incredible, Katie. Uh, this has been awesome. I knew this was gonna be an awesome episode, and it turned out to be an awesome episode. So thank you so, so much for joining us. Um, that was a ton of fun. Um, and we're we're looking forward to to staying in touch with you and having you on the show again at some point. Um, we want to we want to see what's happening. And we also are excited about your business. We're excited about you expanding your business. And and uh I just want to say I love how you know tenacious you were in in dropping flyers when you first started this business. I think that's incredible.
SPEAKER_04I used to take my card to the hair salons, very similar. I used to take my card there, tell people, hey, you want their hair to look good, maybe they want their other rest of their face to look good. So very similar. Yeah, good job.
SPEAKER_00It's uh old school door to door salesman, you know, mentality.
SPEAKER_01True, true. Katie, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for having me. This was awesome. Thank you for being here.