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From Bullshit to Botox: Reinventing Yourself After a Toxic Relationship | Sandra Lena Silverman

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0:00 | 47:18

Can changing your appearance help you change your life?

In this episode of More U, Dom and Dr. Ben sit down with author, podcaster, and confidence advocate Sandra Lena Silverman to explore the connection between self-worth, toxic relationships, aging, and aesthetic medicine.

Sandra shares the personal journey behind her book Bullsh*t to Botox, discussing how leaving a toxic marriage transformed her life and why confidence isn't about chasing perfection—it's about becoming the best version of yourself. The conversation also dives into non-surgical treatments, facelifts, natural results, reverse aging, and making informed decisions about cosmetic procedures. 

In this episode:

  •  The story behind Bullshit to Botox* 
  •  Recovering after a toxic relationship 
  •  Building confidence from the inside out 
  •  Non-surgical vs. surgical rejuvenation 
  •  Why natural results matter 
  •  Cosmetic procedures in your 40s 
  •  Anti-aging myths 
  •  Knowing when enough is enough 

Whether you're interested in aesthetics, personal growth, or starting over, this conversation offers honest advice and a fresh perspective.

🎧 Subscribe to More U Podcast for conversations that help you become healthier, more confident, and more intentional.

📲 SOCIAL MEDIA

Podcast: @more_u_official

Hosts: @dominicmazzone1
@manyfacesofchicago

Guest: @sandralenasilverman

Book: From Bullshit To Botox


#MoreUPodcast
 #SandraLenaSilverman
 #Confidence
 #PlasticSurgery
 #HealthyAging

SPEAKER_00

So I've made two giant mistakes.

SPEAKER_01

What's the bullshit? Tell us what the bullshit is. Like that's what we want to know.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, well the bullshit is when I finished writing the book, I actually didn't have a name for the book.

SPEAKER_03

And the thing is, you can give people a really nice outcome with filler. And you can even do a little focal, nice abdominal, and even maybe knee light bulb.

SPEAKER_00

I was in a very toxic marriage for 27 years. And the relationship started out toxic with my ex.

SPEAKER_03

And Finn, who are we? Where are we? Uh the more you, the more you pod, we're making, and I think we have the perfect guest. The the more you, more us, more everybody, more everything. So uh optimization, I think, is a good way to say it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we're we're all about the more uh the more you and people getting more of themselves. We are super, super, super, super, super pumped. Um, we have Sandra Lena Silverman on with us this evening. Um she God, what am I gonna say about Sandra? She's an author, she's influencing, she's uh a podcast, podcast. There's a lot of things to talk about tonight.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you're very welcome.

SPEAKER_03

And you're lifting up. I mean, I I well, I can't remember what it was, but I my wife is right about I think your age group, she's uh had that the the the the stress of the kind of mom, uh entrepreneur, life, worker, all of that all at once. And it's just like it's one of those things that Dom and I, I think, uh, think we understand, but having somebody on, I think, who can speak to it is powerful.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we're excited. I want to get if I get to the I'm gonna get to the the really good stuff here um right away, and I think it's gonna be good stuff for the entire episode. Your book is called Bullshit to Botox. Um, by the way, awesome, awesome, awesome name. Very good name. What's the bullshit? Tell us what the bullshit is. Like that's what we want to know.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Well, the bullshit is just basically everything. So when the book was fin when I finished writing the book, I actually didn't have a name for the book. And you know, we had all this content and just this whole journey of external work, internal work. And I didn't have a name, a title, so I had no idea what to call it. And a friend of mine was awake one night at like three in the morning and came up with 13 titles and subtitles.

SPEAKER_03

The next day I woke up, probably before AI, also.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, it was a few years ago, yeah. So she sends this to me. I wake up the next morning to all of these titles and subtitles, and I'm like, this is crazy. This is like Christmas morning. Like, how did you do this? And she just said, Oh, I had a burst of energy at 3 a.m. and I couldn't sleep. So one of the titles was from Bullshit to Botox. And I'm like, this is perfect because there's so much that went like along with this book in terms of like the treatments and the procedures and so much bullshit that I mean, it's like a lot of nonsense. It's a lot of nonsense at the end of the day, but also very informative information. So I thought this is like a perfect title because it's like funny and you know, not so serious.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it is. And I think people would really benefit, I think, just a little bit. Now you probably told it a million times. So if you don't mind, just maybe a little bit of your journey on how you got there.

SPEAKER_00

The first procedure was when I was 27, and it just kind of went from there. I was in a very toxic marriage for 27 years, and the relationship started out toxic with my ex. And he had made some comments along the way about like, oh, your body's soft, you should go to the gym. And as a younger person, I thought, okay, I guess I need to go to the gym. Like, I wasn't like subconsciously, you know, or consciously thinking about that there was something wrong with this, but subconsciously I feel like there was. So I started doing procedures and surgeries and just never felt great about myself. And then I had my son and did more procedures and you know, different surgeries and went through this whole journey of like nothing was good enough. I externally, I just wanted to do this, and this was gonna make me feel better, and nothing made me feel better. So the second part of the book is all about the internal journey and removing the toxic out of my life. I'm really starting to love myself. So it should have been reversed, and it wasn't. So that was pretty much the journey. Like I did all these external procedures, but at the end of the day, it didn't make me happier.

SPEAKER_03

You know, I I'm gonna chime in. I think uh the hard part of what you're saying, I think you're you're so much wiser now that you know you of course you feel as though you should have maybe recognized that and loved yourself first before you did that. But when you're 20 or whatever, 25, I mean, the shit I did when I was 25, I think there's not a camera there, there wasn't a cell phone camera when I was 25. I would be, you know, in trouble. So, you know, I think yeah, I think you're being kind of hard on yourself looking at it that way, but I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_00

So But it's good, it's good now. Everything is it worked out the way it was supposed to.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think you know, I I think that it's almost like anything um in life, you you think if you get this job, your life's gonna be better. If you think you get this house, your life's gonna be better. If you're gonna get this certain relationship, your life is gonna be better. And I think where you've touched on is what a lot of people can do is that you know, they can from um uh a self-betterment perspective. I don't want to say self-help, but more in their eyes or feelings of self-betterment. I want to keep getting there, I want to keep getting there. And it's like, well, there are some things you're gonna have to deal with internally at some point or another to really reach the goal that you that you're perceiving, right? Is that is that the basic thought?

SPEAKER_00

You'll go down such a rabbit hole. If you're not doing these things for yourself and for the right reasons, you're gonna go down a rabbit hole, and at the end of the day, you're still not gonna find the happiness that you're looking for. It may be just like a quick fix, like, oh, I just got a facelift, so my face looks good, like a quick fix, but internally you will struggle.

SPEAKER_03

And if you can, and I'm not aging you or any of us, but if you can imagine these poor kids these days, right, with social media. I mean, while you had all of your pressures, like it's just so much worse right now. I'm actually working, I've I've been working on this book forever, uh, similar to that. Just like the manipulation of these algorithms in these poor kids. And honestly, even the surgeons, I think I'm a facial plastic surgeon, so even the surgeons are getting manipulated by this system, and it's like this clouded thing, and people, you know, so it's just a dang mess. And in and it's not getting better, right? I mean, I I that that's the point, that's the sad part of it, really.

SPEAKER_00

No, it's getting worse because girls will go into the surgeon's office and show them like an AI.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, I'm gonna listen, I'm gonna send you my book, Sandra. You're gonna, it's good. I I might change the title now to the motherfucker or or plastic surgery. Okay, if that's okay. Yeah, but uh, I'll give you a shout-out. So uh I'll send it to you because I it's so this it's just I see it every day. And it's um uh I think it it it could to me, it comes down to a communication problem. And uh there's obviously incentives for everybody involved, and then when the incentives are in line uh uh aligned and the there's not good communication, people get hurt, you know, and and physically, mentally, uh, you know, in every other way. And it's it's just I I really hate to see it.

SPEAKER_00

It's really sad. It's really sad.

SPEAKER_01

Um I think what's interesting about you, which I I I um which I kind of love, is that you're not actually it it doesn't seem I could have this wrong, it's not like you're anti-procedure. Because a lot of people will get on one side or the other, and and it seems like you've somehow find this, found this white space that I think most people are probably in, but you're just actually were the one who identified it of hey, there's there's all these procedures. Um, I'm not telling you that they're all bad or don't don't work, but but I think there's more to it. Can you just talk about that a little bit? Because I think it's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00

I I agree with what you're saying. So there's so many procedures, and I've done a lot of them. I don't think that they're bad at all. I think it's only bad if you're doing them for the wrong reasons. If you're doing them because you don't love yourself, you're doing them to make somebody else happy, then they're not good. But if you're doing them for yourself and you still look natural at the end of the day, then have as many as you want. I don't see anything wrong with it.

SPEAKER_03

And I'll I'll chime in as the surgeon. You know, the as the surgeon, same thing. Like the surgeon also can't be doing it for the wrong reasons. They have to, you know, be the patients don't have as much um insight into the operations as we do. Of course, the number of times I see somebody go and say, Oh, I asked the doctor to do this and he did this, but it didn't fix my problem and it made me look weird. And the doctor just says, Well, I did what you said, but I mean you're the doctor, man. You still gotta die, you still gotta do the analysis, do the record, you gotta give your advice, you gotta say, this is gonna do this, this is gonna age like this, this is gonna uh an implication in 20 years, you're gonna have to redo your breast implants or you know, whatever. But if you it's it really comes down to incentives and communication, and I just I hate it when it goes poorly because it's it's bad for everybody. It's definitely bad for everybody. It's bad for the industry, it's bad, you know, it's just like I I I just hate it.

SPEAKER_00

So well, it's great when the surgeon is honest with the it really comes down to that, yeah. Yeah, when they're honest, and you know, somebody that's had three rhinoplasties and there's no cartilage left or whatever, and they don't want to touch them. I mean, I think that's a great surgeon because they're being honest and telling the truth, but so many people you know want to get paid. They, you know, they have to keep their lights on or whatever. And that's when it it becomes tricky. But in the book, I really emphasized and wanted to show people like the best types of doctors to to work with in terms of making sure they're a specialist for whatever they want to do and that they have you know really good reviews and you really do your research because you don't want to go to somebody. I mean, for me personally, like if I'm getting a facelift, I want to go to somebody that just does facelifts. I don't want that person to be like does everything because then they're not doing so many of that procedure per year.

SPEAKER_03

You know, uh you're speaking, you're you're you're yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like so speaking my language. Um, I mean, I'm I I'm like super obsessed with super sub-specialization. I mean, all I do is this, and I don't do blefs, rhinos, bot, I don't do anything else. That's all I do every day. And I try to explain to people like, I am the best. There's no questions asked, but the reason I'm the best is because I've done thousands of these. And the guy who's doing butts and boobs and pilots, he's doing, you know, uh 20, 30, 40 a year. I'm doing 400. It's just like I can teach a monkey to do it as good as me if they if they sat with me and did 10,000. It's just the reality of it. And our ability to cut and sew is is much closer than people think. It's all about the repetition, knowing, tweaking, learning the patients. Like the jawline can be feminized, masculinized, pointy, square, round. I mean, the the depths I think about it, people think I'm crazy. But it it it's the interesting thing from a surgeon perspective, which is gonna be weird, I think, for the non-surgeons of the of the world, the more you do of one case, the more complicated it becomes. And most people think, like, don't you get bored of doing that? And it's no, like, man, oh God, and you tweak it a little bit, you think about it differently. You're like, oh, that woman was she was uh thick skin, this woman's thin skin, and then that guy had a broad mandible, she had a mini. So you just you can really get obsessive about it in in a good way. I was you know, we're taking beautiful people like yourself, Sandra, and cutting their faces open. I mean, that's it's a lot of pressure. You you I don't even know. I always say I don't even know why anybody would want to do a case that they're not like a hundred percent confident. It just it would drive me crazy.

SPEAKER_00

I agree with you a hundred percent, but there's so many surgeons out there that do everything. Yeah, like you said, and you're right, you're doing 400 a year and they're doing 20, 30 because there's not enough time in the day to to do the butts and the tummy tucks and the faces. So that's like the number one thing I talk about when I talk about the surgeries in the book is to find somebody that specializes.

SPEAKER_03

And you know, I don't you you're probably doing it now, but I I I'm doing consults with these people that have um so it's the patient, and the patient has a consultant like yourself.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not I I do it for free, but I'm not a good one.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so they bring them with them, and it's somebody like you. I don't know how they're informed, whether they went through. I mean, I don't know exactly like you, but they they they have so the patient's kind of just there, like I want this and this and this. And the person's like, Okay, did you ask? What if there's a complication? What does he do then? And I mean they ask smart questions, questions that you should ask. But uh I've noticed like I'm I don't know if they get like a portion of the I mean they must be paying these people, I assume.

SPEAKER_00

They do. They they they're these beauty consultants that they're paying, they're telling them exactly what they want, they're telling them who to go to uh for a fee. They'll probably get a percentage of what they spend. That would be my guess.

SPEAKER_01

I want to hear you talk a whole bunch about. Um you've alluded to it on this, where it sounds like you've had some unscrupulous like doctors that you've dealt with, um, some of the folks that have done stuff. Can you just talk about that? I think we want to just hear that. And I think it'd be helpful for people to hear that.

SPEAKER_00

So I've made two giant mistakes. Number one was with a doctor in New York, his name is Dr. Troquel. It's called the Y lift. And this was before I got my facelift. And my mom talked me out of getting the facelift. So I'm at the gym one day and I see him on Good Morning America doing a procedure with filler, using a cannula. And I thought, oh, he lifted the lady's face. This is great. I'm gonna go to New York. So the next week I go to New York, I have a consult with him. He does the procedure. He used, I don't know, 20 vials of filler and went deep into the tissue with the cannula and it was fine. Like it looked good. He it lifted, it worked. Fast forward, two years later, I repeated it with him. And now he decided he doesn't like that procedure. He wants to pie face me. So instead of sculpting, he turned me into a round pie. It took a year to dissolve all of that filler, like it was disastrous, which caused my skin to expand and start sagging even more. So then I followed up with a facelift at I think it was like 48. Um, but that was a major mistake because of all that filler, it caused more damage to my face and caused the skin to sag. That was a really big um error on my part. The second one was I allowed a dermatologist to liposuction my knees and my stomach in her office, and she wasn't even an expert in liposuction. So now I have my stomach, my skin sagging on my stomach and my knees, and now I have to get a tummy tuck, which I never even had to get even after childbirth. So, and now it's like an uphill battle with my knees. I'm constantly having to fill them and you know, things like that. So I did make those two mistakes. I was able to correct two of them with surgery.

SPEAKER_03

You know, I'm gonna chime in, Dom. I know you'll have good insights into this, but the the the um you know, I don't know these physicians you're talking about, but the thing is you can get people a really nice outcome with filler, and you can even do a little focal, nice uh uh abdominal and even maybe knee lipo. Um, or you can do it very poorly. So that's the unfortunate part of this uh of this game, you know. There's such a such a human component. Maybe one day AI is gonna do it all for us and it'll be solved. But currently you still got to get a Schmo like me to do it. So you want the Schmo that is doing only that, that obsesses about it. And you know, it's just it's just and and then if if anything I do, if it goes wrong, I can fix it. Like I don't I don't do anything that I can't fix. I don't I don't I want to sleep at night, so it's just that's the reality for me. Like Dom's not gonna start a company that he can't run and you know manage the people and get you know, you know, so it's just the reality. And I I think it's a kind of almost a twisted person that can do these things and not have the the the concern or the anxiety of not being uh uh I don't know if it's trained or uh you know ready for it.

SPEAKER_00

There was no concern, it was a disaster, and it's my fault because like I said, I didn't go to the experts, which I've learned. So I had to learn the hard one.

SPEAKER_03

I would say not only I would not put it on you, I think again, unfortunately, it's getting harder and harder for these people for these poor. You're you're wise on it now, so now you know, but the poor people out there that just not poor like money-wise, just like poor in the lack of wisdom um or experience, they they they're just making these decisions based on what Kim Kardashian told them they should do. So it's like even even this, like it's just so much more clouded and more difficult now.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that was part of the reason I wanted to write the book, just because I had experience and I wanted to bring experts in to talk about like the different procedures that they do and what the expectations are. Because for like a breast lift, for example, like this is the kind of scarring that you can have, and this is how you can fix the scar and you know that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03

And if you know that you're getting your breast implanted at 20, and when you're 40, you might want a little lift, and it's okay. If you're informed on that information and it's transparent, not a big deal. But if you got your breast implants and you're 40, you're like, what the hell? I gotta do another surgery, my breasts are sagging. If you don't have that information, you don't make the decision based on that information. That's it's you know, you could argue it's negligent from the from the surgeon perspective, like to use a medical term. So it's very frustrating. I I hate, I really hate to see bad care because it just one, it like hurts my soul, but bad for everything. Is it's like bad for me, but it's bad for every person. It's like, what the hell? I agree. I'm ranting down, I know. Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01

It's okay. There's a this uh this is a passionate subject. Um, and I think I think Sandra, I think for clarity's sake, like you know, we we're in the business of aesthetics, and it it we're in the business of excellent aesthetics, and we care so much about that. And and and you said something I just I just want to touch on, which I think is so important. Great doctors look at you, and the patient may say, I want X. Great doctors may say, Well, I'm not gonna do that because I don't believe that that's the right thing to do for you. Even though you want that, you can't do that. And and if you and have you been able to find folks that that you encounter that you that have done that with you?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Recently, there's a doctor in Miami, and I went to him two years ago to see if I could get another mini facelift. And he literally looked in my face and he was like, get out of my office, and he's like, Look around you. I have to keep the lights on, I have a staff, but I'm not touching your face because you don't need it. And I thought that was amazing.

SPEAKER_01

That's wonderful. And I I I think that's that's really important. I'd like to go back if I can, which I think this is really important. Is you've been now out there, you've written this book and you're vocal. Like, what are other women saying to you like that are talking to you? Like, what are you hearing? Are you are you are you are you feeling that this is a um a bit of a movement of hey, if we're gonna get stuff done, we got to get it done right, and we gotta get done for the right reasons. Like, tell us tell us a little bit about your experience with that.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, but it's also women are saying, Wow, you've done so many of these surgeries and procedures and you're being so vocal about it, I shouldn't be ashamed to want to do something or to e do something and even share it with people that they know because a lot of women are scared. They're scared of what their community thinks of them or their relatives, family members think of them if they want to do something. And I feel like writing this book and just kind of broadcasting it was helpful for women to not be embarrassed or ashamed and to really, you know, do whatever they want to do to make themselves feel better. That's pretty much the comments that I've gotten. There's some backlash when I was in People magazine for all of the procedures. Um, there was a lot of like negative comments, like, oh, she's a bad influence on her daughter, you know, things like that. But you're always gonna get those type of comments. But most of them are pretty positive.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Was the was writing the book kind of therapeutic for you?

SPEAKER_00

It was. And I also thought this is good information, you know, to share. So that's that was the main reason why I wanted to write it. Just so because people would ask me all the time. I'm not a beauty broker, like you know, there are people that have this these types of businesses, but you know, friends or friends would ask because you know, word gets out like, oh, she's had this, she's had that, like you know, over. Time and when I people would ask me so many questions, I thought, let me just put it all in a book in that way. It's like easy. Use it as a guide. But funny. It's like written in such a funny, humorous way where it's not boring to read.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the the it's a sexy topic in many levels, right? It's interesting. People are changing their bodies, and you know, it's just in so many levels, it's a very interesting topic.

SPEAKER_01

So um, in in uh yeah, so has the book has the book changed this may sound weird, but but by writing the book, has that kind of changed a little bit of your relationship with yourself?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. After I wrote it and then I narrated it. So it took me a month to narrate the book because I had no idea what I was doing in the studio, so I would, you know, have to redo. After reading it, I was like, wow, I've done so much. This is like I literally thought I was insane after I read the whole thing out loud again. That I just couldn't even believe. I couldn't, I actually I was it's almost like an out of body experience because I'm like, is this really real? Like, did I really do all this? But like, you know, I just kind of laughed it off, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I mean but then I guess a little bit uh is I guess the real like you're saying, it was a bit of a realization where you've done all these things, but then you actually did the book and then you're narrating it, and you're like, oh my god, I have done all these things.

SPEAKER_00

Also, it made me realize that it took me back because you know, these procedures started when I was 27, and it took me back to wow, like I did a lot, and I did it a lot of them because I wasn't, you know, happy or happy with myself. And doing that whole internal, you know, journey was so um helpful that it just made me realize like wow, I went through this whole journey and you know it was the way it turned out the way it was supposed to, but now I've gotten to the other side where yes, I've done all these things, but now I'm actually very happy with myself and not externally, but internally.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's kind it's it's really complicated. I mean, um uh and in uh I it obviously it affects men and women differently. I I normally give the counter, I do a lot of men. Uh so it it my counter is always like there, the guys, particularly these young guys, are just as freaking stressed out as the young women, would be my answer. So, not that that's a good thing, by the way. It's good for plastic surgeons, but it's not bad for it's not good for the world. Um, so it's it's one of those in the kind of the little book I was writing, you know, the round faces want to be sculpted, the sculpted faces make me put fat in it, the big butts want to be small, the small ones want to be big. I tell every patient, I'm like, if it makes you feel any better, nobody's happy. So you'd be surprised. Like, it's just the reality. So just take that with you and you know, keep it in mind when you're kind of making decisions, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Nobody's happy. And these poor girls, I'm sure, coming into your office and wanting you to remove the buckle fat, which is such a mistake for your listeners to not remove it because as you age, like you need that. You need that.

SPEAKER_03

You know, I I I do do a lot of buckle fat removal, so I I could expand on it. I think there's like anything, I would argue, you know, uh uh um a young uh uh 30-year-old Asian woman with thick skin, short mandible, big ramus, her mother has big bulldog cheeks is different than that's different. I met somebody that's like exactly an Eastern European long face. So uh all of this stuff can be done properly. It's just like the lipo you had on your knees and belly. It probably could have been done a little more subtle, and you would have got a nice change out of it when you were 28, you know, but they overdid it. So um, and and it really comes down to that in the in the in the transparency of it. So um, but uh you're right. I mean, everything has consequences and people need to know. And the problem now, in my opinion, um, and and it's probably because the patients are so informed with AI and with social, you know, uh Google and with social media or whatever, that the surgeons are kind of letting the patient dictate it a little too much, taking the back seat, taking the money, and just doing what the patient thinks they want without really, even if they know, like, oh shit, you know, she's 18, probably doesn't need her buckle fat. You know, it's like she's gonna give me 10 grand for it. I guess I'll just do it. She asked for it. Like, but hey, you're 18, you're skinny, your mother is thin faced, like maybe you should reconsider this, you know. It would be the proper thing to say. Yeah, it's like 100%. That's the issue to it.

SPEAKER_01

Sandra, tell us tell us a little bit about that from your perspective. In you know, you're talking to a lot of people. Um are you finding is it is it more of people don't know what to do and or more of don't know how far to actually go with it?

SPEAKER_00

A lot of women don't know where to start, especially women my age group, where they've never done anything. And then all of a sudden they look in the mirror and they're like, Who are you? I don't recognize, you know, they don't recognize themselves anymore, and they're scared, like they don't know where to start. So I talk about that in the book as well to start with non-invasive, like microblade your eyebrows, do eye, get you know, eyelash extensions, dermoplane your face, like little things.

SPEAKER_03

Safe, easy, gonna make you feel a little better. It's a no-brainer. And you've probably seen it, Dom. You know, I know I'm talking a lot now, but this is my thing. Um, the the the surgeons out there that are saying you can't do the non-surgical stuff, it's gonna make the face that's so bullshit. It's so fear-mongering. I tell every patient, they're like, hey, well, I do Botox and it gets my brows where I want them, but I might do a brow lift. I'm like, well, I would just keep doing the Botox. When the Botox isn't sufficient enough, we can talk about a brow lift. But if you're happy with the Botox, just be happy with it. You know, don't don't if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's like it's so clear in in in from from the outsider perspective. But the the well, I saw this one thing, I don't want to no.

SPEAKER_01

If you're happy, just let it be. Sandra, keep going along with that, what you were saying about that. I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, so a lot of them they don't they don't know where to start. So I tell people to start non-invasive first and then kind of ease your way into it instead of just going and getting something massive if you're scared. Because a lot of people are afraid of surgery, they're afraid of the anesthesia, and they just want to start doing something. I mean, a lot of things you can do for anti-aging, even changing like the way that you dress, changing your hairstyle. Like, there's so many things that you can do before you start down the surgery path.

SPEAKER_01

That that's actually funny that you say that. My wife and I always talk about. If you look at a 45 or a 50-year-old today and you think about like your grandparents, you know, you look back and you're like, oh my god, like they were 45 or 50, but it was like they were 80. Um, yeah, they're hairstyles.

SPEAKER_00

The hair styles, Alice from the Brady Bunch. They did a picture, a side by side of her when she was like 35 on the show with that crazy, like whatever army looking haircut, and then they put like long hair on her. She looked like a different person.

SPEAKER_01

That was Sandra, that was pure gold that you pulled Alice from the Brady Bunch on that. That was gold. Thank you for that tonight. Um, have you have you had have you had many men um come to you to talk about this at all?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, a lot of men, especially not as much for the surgery part, but more like the anti-aging, like the peptides and just like the fitness training and the things I talk about in the second part of the book. Um, the lymphatic work, the body, I do fascia work twice a week. Um, it's more like roughing with a body he's an expert in um working on the fascia, like things like that that I talk about, a lot of the men are interested in more so than the surgery part.

SPEAKER_01

Got it. And and is your guidance for the men different than your guidance for the for the women?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, for the men, it's more like getting, you know, if they want to do down, go down like the anti-aging path, more like their fitness, sleeping properly, not drinking. I mean, it's pretty much similar, but a lot of them aren't really interested. I mean, yeah, maybe Botox and things like that, but not like actual surgery.

SPEAKER_03

Because most of the surgeries I talk about are more and I'll tell you, the guys, the guys hold it a little closer to the chest. I mean, most of the guys, it's like, hey, nobody better know I did this, you know. I'm gonna grow a beard for a couple weeks, you know. The guys are it's still a little it it's always it's taboo for everybody, but it's it's much more taboo, particularly the men over 40. The the young guys do it, they they they're open to it. The older guys, like 40, 50, 60 guys, they're much more hesitant to let it be out there, I think.

SPEAKER_00

Do you get a lot of men coming to you to look younger for their careers?

SPEAKER_03

Careers, and a lot of mine it they don't use the word younger often. They just kind of want that masculine, they'll reference. So, you know, guys can get away with a little wrinkle here and there. So it's it's not even so much younger, it's like the sharpness, the leanness. I think the the the the it's more of the masculinity that they're after. Um, so but yeah, 100%. Definitely. The the the you're the they're kind of the older person in their industry. They're they're trying to compete with the 20-year-old guy who's still jacked, and you know, so they almost have to. Yeah, again, like it's how society works, you know. I normally say because people give me shit, you know, as being a uh plastic surgeon, and I say, Man, don't hate the player, hate the game. It's not my fault that hot people, you know, uh seem to do better. It's just I'm just helping people get hot, you know. Uh you gotta correct it at the baseline level if you want to fix this.

SPEAKER_00

It's unfortunate, but that is true.

SPEAKER_03

It's unfortunate and it's true. So it's just it's the reality, and like you know, not making people hot's not gonna solve anything. It's just you know, so it's just gonna be less fair. So at least now you can pay for it if you want, you know. Is it one way to consider it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's that's that. I mean, I and I think on that point, um it's up to people, it's their choice. I think Sandra, what you're saying is hey, that's fine. Make sure you're making the right choices, and here's ways to help you make the right choices. Is that is that is that kind of fair of what your mission is?

SPEAKER_00

It is. I feel like you should be able to do as many procedures as you want as long as you look natural. The moment that you go down a rabbit hole and you don't look natural anymore, then you've gone too far. And it's a fine line.

SPEAKER_03

It really is a fine line.

SPEAKER_01

Let's talk about your podcast, the party's over. Tell first of all, super cool name. Um, by the way, she's good with the names.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you gotta be, I think.

SPEAKER_00

More you it's like that came from me everything, like all day long. I'll say, Oh, all parties over, party's over. So with everything, like, oh, I just got my Botox parties over. Like, I just said it so much that when we were coming up with the name for the podcast, I'm like, it's gotta be party's over because I say it like nonstop.

SPEAKER_01

Tell us about the podcast. What's going on on the podcast?

SPEAKER_00

So the podcast started with each episode would talk about what I would talk about. Uh segment A would be all about reverse aging and having guests. Segment B would be all about toxic relationships, which is my second book that's that will be released in September. And then we would do a spill it where somebody would ask a question, then my friend Vita and I would talk about, you know, answering the question, which is super funny. The last filming that we did, we kind of switched it up where we're doing shorter segments and just other topics. So we're not just doing like the reverse aging and the and the toxic relationships. So I'll see how that goes when we release those. But it's been fun. And people like it.

SPEAKER_01

Let's ask a question on that. I think it's so interesting because you're talking about toxic relationships. I think a lot of people don't know they're in a toxic relationship.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, they don't.

SPEAKER_01

How do you how do you know if you're in a toxic relationship?

SPEAKER_00

They have no idea. And my second book is called From Bullshit to Broken Hearts. It's all about my marriage, all about the toxic relationship that I was in that for half of it I didn't realize what was going on. There's so many signs and so many red flags that people miss, like I missed. I mean, I was love bomb day one with this guy, and just he the moment he met me, he told me we'd have cute kids together. And I mean, he met me for five minutes. Like, how would he even know that? Um, he would gaslight me. There were so many things, like he was insulting me, and I didn't, it just went right over my head. Like, I didn't realize, I had no idea. So many factors. Um, I didn't realize it for years. So I thought with this book, I'm gonna talk about different scenarios, have experts just like the first book, so bring awareness to women or you know, men or whoever reads the book, where they may not even realize they're in a relationship like that. They may have no idea. Um, because I didn't realize.

SPEAKER_01

And so there's is there is there anything I I I mean for for for someone to just have a warning sign to go like, you know, because I have a I have a young daughter, she's gorgeous, she's brilliant. Um she's very type A and very smart. And I don't think she would ever get herself in a toxic relationship because she's she has a lot of of self-awareness and self-confidence and those types of things. But I worry about those kind of things as a dad. Um, and I just thinking about all the people out there and people listening, and like how do they, you know, how how can they actually do a gut check on that?

SPEAKER_00

You don't, that's the thing. Like, you could be the strongest person and it happens over time, so you don't realize what's going on. Yeah, it there these people they could be toxic in like very subtle ways.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, the people the the the true is it's toxic because they're good at it. Like, really, yeah, they're good at it, they're so manipulative.

SPEAKER_00

Like I was being manipulated every which way, and I I didn't even realize how much I was being manipulative. Now I can look back at all these different scenarios and I'm like, wow, like, and I'm not a stupid person, but I just fell into this. And you know, what I had kids and I don't want to break up the family, and you know, you just start accepting. And the more you accept, the worse it will get. Like the boundaries that were crossed are so crazy when in this what comes out. Like, people aren't even gonna believe the scenario, like the different scenarios. And my ex gave me honestly the best content of my life. I wouldn't even be able to make this stuff up.

SPEAKER_02

All right, I like it. I like a little drawing. I mean, not that you had to go through it, but I like to read it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm not even that creative. Like, I wouldn't even be able to make this up. I'm like, the the things that this guy did were so insane, and he wouldn't stop. But then the more I was like, is this real? Like, is he really doing this? And I accepted it, it would next time it was even worse. And it just worked out.

SPEAKER_01

I think I think I think you guys are both uh saying I think that's what's really clear here is the toxicity part of it is the is that it's so quietly insidious because it's just part of the everyday um components of the relationship that it goes unnoticed almost. Um and God, that's gotta be really tough.

SPEAKER_00

Some of it went unnoticed, so the major things, then he would say, Oh, but I'm gonna go to a sex therapist, I'm gonna get help. Okay, great, you're gonna go get help. Like, I want to save our family. Like, my the other reason I stayed also was because I didn't know what kind of people he was gonna have around my kids. And my number one priority was to protect my kids. And I thought, if I have joint custody with this guy, who knows what he's who he's gonna have around them, and that scared me. So I definitely stayed way longer than I should have, but don't you know it's kind of don't feel bad.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, a lot of people my mom, my mom did. Uh, I watched it, I watched it as as a kid, so I I fully um could understand and and and the fact of I mean, obviously very admirable. Um, and I think it's so admirable for so many women and and some some men out there that the toxicity is coming from the other side. The the just the to be so honorable to to to hold try to say hold things together for your children, I think is is such a strong force, um, and honestly incredibly admirable too. So thank you. And by the way, I I um I love um I'm sorry to side note this, but I love this this series of bullshit to botox and bullshit to not it. I mean, that's such a cool niche. Like I'm like digging that. Um, how are you? I want to take this just one step, uh, also. How are you enjoying, you know, kind of developing your brand and developing who you are? Is that the part like are you enjoying it? Are you finding it a lot of work? Just tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00

I'm enjoying it. It definitely is a lot of work, but I love it. So for me, it doesn't feel like I'm busy all the time, but it doesn't feel like work because I really enjoy it and I really like helping women and helping empower them any which way that I possibly can, whether it's you know, on the procedure side or on the relationship side. I just am hoping whoever reads my books will get something out of it, um, out of one of them. You know what I mean? Just make that makes me happy.

SPEAKER_01

So that's that's so that part is really fun in building the brand and and doing that. Um, we always ask this one uh question. It's uh it's our favorite question. And by the way, for you, this is really interesting because it could be either procedures or toxic relationships. But what are the things there something out there that you think is like common is more of a common knowledge that people think that is absolute bullshit based on your experience?

SPEAKER_00

For procedures, yes. I think that there are a few um laser machines while like the Morpheus 8, the coal sculpting. I feel like people love these, and I don't think they work. I think that I'm against them.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know how you feel about both of them, but um, I think it's I think it's really well, first of all, that's that's your opinion, and and you get to have that. That you're our guest and you're on our show. I think it's interesting because I think it goes back to the things that you both were talking about, which it depends whose hands they're in. I think a lot of people don't realize on cool sculpting if the way you massage after cool sculpting will really affect how the um the procedure um takes. Like and sorry for lack of like I don't have the the right vernacular in my head this morning at nine o'clock eastern time. But um but it it's it's depending. And I think what a lot of people don't I love that you brought up Morpheus 8 because I think what a lot of people don't realize on all the devices, these devices have settings, and because they have settings, if those settings aren't set, and Ben, you can help me on this anytime, but you could take the settings and turn them down and not get the result you're looking for.

SPEAKER_03

Again, uh, you know, we have 150 different devices cool sculpting, morpheus, CO2, soft wave. Yeah, the science is if if you really nerd out about it, it's just using different wavelengths to target energy. So they can all be done really well. They're FDA approved, these are proven that they can be efficacious, they can all be done really poorly with a CO2 laser Dom. I could drill a hole from the between your eyes to the back of your head if I left it on for long enough. So some people will say CO2 sucks, probably the people that got burned by it. Some people say CO2 is the most beautiful thing in the world because they're really white, they have no melanin, they got a good outcome. So it's it really again, like buckle fat can be really good, buckle fat can never do it. Breast implants can be abnormous and under the muscle and converge in the midline, or they can look spectacular. So it's it's it's that what I think. Um a big part when you say they don't work, I think part of these non-surgical things, a lot of people overpromise them. So I think that's the misleading. You know, I normally say, listen, you can do the Morpheus, you can spend a couple thousand dollars, it's gonna be a little bit better, or you can do a necklift and it's gonna be way better, but there's a lot more downtime. So that's what I yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's what I'm saying. Like I feel like instead of going down that trap, yeah because if you are gonna spend thousands of dollars, it's better to cut the skin.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but for some people, you know what? They're uh a high uh energy lawyer, they don't take any days off a a year, and I'm like, hey, if I do the necklift, you're gonna look stupid for like two weeks. And they're like, no, dude, I can't do that. And I'm like, all right, well, do more physics. You'll be a little bit better. You're not gonna say I'm the best person ever, but it'll be a little bit better. And it's it really, I mean, I keep harnessing, I keep harping on it, but it really comes down to the communication, being honest. And you know, the problem is the people who aren't that busy are the ones pushing it. Like, I'm I'm lucky, I'm busy enough, I can say don't do it, you know, and I'll go operate on somebody else, you know. So I want to be busy, I'm a hyper guy. So um, you know, early in the careers or people that are not completely honest. So, but like Dom said, I think that insight is good. Patients, you should be people, they should hear that. They should also hear the person that loves that, and they they should have that information.

SPEAKER_01

So, um, yeah, I I I always want to say is is I I love that you said that actually, Sandra, because I think it's so important that for because that was your experience and that could be your experience, and I think that's why uh going back to what you said, you gotta go to the people that really focus on that and really do it all the time and have the hours on that because again, it's it's different for that. So um, I love that you you mentioned that. What do you think is magic? Like what have you done either procedure-wise or anything for a toxic relationship that's complete magic?

SPEAKER_00

Honestly, I think every woman should do a facelift in their 40s.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, that's big.

SPEAKER_00

And the reason why is because I feel that that's when they're gonna look the most natural, and then you can maintain over the years where you're not doing so much work at 60 or 70, and you're gonna look the most natural, and you can just, you know, repeat every 10, 15 years or however.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and it's you heal much. I mean, most surgeons would second you, not only because we're greedy and we want the money, but because uh those people heal easy, they're healthy, they're active. Wow, it's just it's the reality. I did a facelift, and actually the woman did really well because she's like a freaking rock. But uh, she was 88 years old. I did a facelift on her. And I mean, but you know, you can imagine going through elect, you know, five four-hour elective surgery when you're 88. Like that's hard. She's happy, she did good, she's tough. But you know, that's amazing. When you're 40, you know, it was her third one. So uh, but she did great.

SPEAKER_00

So I think which is fine, that's her third one, but I'm saying to start your things to me makes the most sense.

SPEAKER_03

I think for the right person with the right anatomy, it can be a beautiful procedure. And and their satisfaction is so high because they're already hot. It's easy to take hot people and make them a little hotter. That's really the reality to it. You know, not that my 88-year-old wasn't hot, she's also hot, but you know, it just it's a little more work. It's harder to make an 88-year-old look better in natural than a 40-year-old.

SPEAKER_00

You're gonna be able to make them look the most natural.

SPEAKER_03

Smallest amount of change can look spectacular. Yeah, it's a good point.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I gotta say, Sandra, this has been awesome. Super, super, super awesome. Um, so cool. One thing I want to say is you gotta check out Sandra's podcast, The Party's Over. Um, we think that's really important to check that out. You gotta read her book Bullshit to Botox. You gotta read her next book, which is uh Sandra's Bullshit to toxic relationships. Is that what it was?

SPEAKER_00

Bullshit to From Bullshit to Broken Hearts.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, that's even that's a best that's by the way, that's a way better um title from bullshit to uh broken hearts. So um please go check out all of Sandra's uh um stuff. I I just want to thank you so much for uh coming on. And obviously, your I think your brand is transparency, but I I think we would just always appreciate it um when someone comes on here and tells us how to think. So thank you so so much for being here.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's admirable.

SPEAKER_03

It's not easy what you're doing because uh it's very vulnerable to explain to people what you've done and why you did it and the mistakes you've made. So um yeah, it's admirable. So keep thank you.

SPEAKER_01

And we can't wait to have you on after the new book comes out because I I want to I want to jump into that. That would be so much fun.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, perfect. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Sandra.