Going on a Bear Hunt

WE'RE BACK! Join me this week as I connect with Corinne Brodnicki, LMFT as we dive into mental and physical wellness! The importance of therapy, impacts of stress, and more. Let us know what you think

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Awesome. Well, thank you everyone for joining us for another episode of My Understanding. I appreciate you guys coming back in and tuning in. I want to uh also thank Corinne here for being a lovely guest. Uh we've got a special one today. She's a good friend of mine, uh, as is her husband. We've been actually met him at the place that we used to work at, Lifetime. I guess I still technically do work there, but uh but yeah, so there are some very amazing people very close to me, and uh, she works in the mental health field and is just an incredible person. And so I'm really grateful that you were willing to hop on today. Would you like to introduce yourself a little bit more?

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Sure. So my name is Corinne Brodniki, and I am a licensed marriage and family therapist primarily. So I've been doing that since 2011. So is this 15? Year 15 already. And currently I have a private practice. That's where I see most of my clients I work with littles. I've got five-year-olds all the way up to 65-year-olds, men, women, kids, couples. Um I kind of run the gamut, but I primarily work in the areas of anxiety, it seems like, and parenting support andor behavior management for younger kiddos. So I also teach at Jessup, uh, Christian University over here. I teach in the master's program, so I get to mold developing therapist clients as well, which is a humongous honor.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

That's incredible. How long have you how long have you been doing that Jessup thing for?

SPEAKER_01 1:36

2019, I think. So the program is a baby still. It it's only been, I think they started in 2018, so I've been there the whole time, which has been um a really big privilege. I feel every time I teach, I feel I'm so underqualified for this, but they keep asking me to teach, so I guess something's going okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

You're like, I guess I'm doing something right.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Something. Fooling everybody, at least.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Well, you're really good at it then. No, that's actually really cool. I I think that, oddly enough, I think that I don't ever realize that you had taught at Jessup, though.

unknown 2:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

That's really cool. Yeah, I I have a lot of friends actually, or I shouldn't say a lot, but I have a few friends that also teach over at Jessup. So that's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

It's a good community. It's a good community, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

It is, I agree. It's a very small world, too. So well, sweet. Well, one of the questions that I I have for you then is just kind of going diving into your field of work, is what do you feel like is something that a lot of people misunderstand about like therapy or therapists?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Wow, I I think that I think people really underestimate the value, and that's probably not a huge shock, but I think people really think like, I don't really need to go to therapy, I don't really have any issues going on. But the reality is we all have a history of brokenness from our childhood, and even if you had lovely, wonderful parents, you still have maladaptive thought patterns, behaviors that were developed because we live in this broken world. And just coming to therapy to unwind some of those things can give you such a higher quality of life. And I think people really often are content to like, yeah, that's you know, it's fine, it's good, you know, it's I'm getting I'm getting by. And or some people don't even realize that they're getting by, and they they haven't even been able to tap into their full potential because they're weighed down by things, these kind of invisible anchors sometimes that they don't even realize they have. So I would say anybody can benefit from it, especially if you're married and or a parent. Uh, these are two things nobody, there's lots of books about, but um, most people aren't having anyone hold their hand while they're going through either of these humongous relational experiences. And they're they're both difficult and so some support along the way. Just I'm my my thought is like it makes your life easier and smoother, and I like I said, I think it gives you a higher quality of life. And most therapy is very um easy in the sense of therapists, all therapists I know are like the loveliest people, and their offices are very comfortable and safe, and it might be uncomfortable at the beginning, but yeah, the kinds that come through my doors are generally generally enjoy, I think, their experience. If you copy that, though.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yeah. It's a similar to Jessup thing. You gotta be doing something right. Okay, that's very cool. Yeah, it's it's interesting that you had specified the relationship and parental idea of therapy. I I think for me growing up, therapy was never something that was like talked about really in my family, especially. It's like it was it was very much just you deal with it, you suck it up, you continue to move on. And like I I'll admit, like I I had a very loving family. I think I was one of those people where I feel like I was raised in a good household. Um, but even still, my dad, having been in the military, very much kind of drilled into us like, you know, you're a man, you deal with your emotions, you just kind of show them aside, yeah, and you make do. Um, but yeah, now that I have my lovely wife, she has very much opened my eyes to okay, no, therapy is like a very real thing. And it is. I think the more once you start going, it's from my perspective, it's something you almost have to want to do. Because I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like it doesn't work very well if somebody doesn't want it to. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Because I am I am your passenger in the car. If if you don't want to drive where I'm inviting you to go, then what use am I to you? You know, what and and we're not gonna be able to go where I think might be good for you to go. But you're still in charge, you're the you know, you're the driving force, un not intended, but well-fitted. And um, absolutely. So when I get clients that come in because of a part, a spouse, a partner, a parent, uh, there really has to be buy-in for there to be be change. Um, but it doesn't have to be a lot of buy-in in the beginning, because usually people start to see the the positive benefit if they're even a little bit open, um, and then they find it to be worth it.

unknown 6:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

And that's really cool. That's and I assume you've seen probably a lot of it. I feel like it's a very rewarding, it can be a very rewarding field when you see that change in your clients.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Absolutely. And sometimes that's weekly, sometimes that's every s not every session, but every week, every day that I'm working. Um feedback from clients that will say things like, You have just helped us so much. I hear this more often with couples, and um, it really is. And I always have to tell them, I'm I'm just here to kind of be your sounding board and organize what you're throwing at me and and helping to reorganize it and present it back to you in a way that's allows you to make the changes that are necessary. And so I'm I'm just really like I said, I'm a glorified guide with a lot of training. Yeah, and the client is doing the majority of the work. Um, so it is really it's very reporting, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Well, that's very cool. And I'm I'm glad to hear that it's also something that you enjoy doing because I feel like if you enjoy doing it, you're gonna be a lot better at it.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah, absolutely. Someone actually not in the therapy field at said one time a long time ago, they said, Is it so awesome that you get to do this work that you know is so impactful? And I was like, Yeah, it really is. I know you're making a difference in people's life and to confidently have information and tools and tricks that you know are gonna help people is is really empowering myself. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

That's awesome. I can definitely, I would say I can relate to that in a different aspect just with the whole personal training business. Like we do a it's very I feel like it's two sides of a similar the same coin, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yes, and I would say also a highly underutilized um health tool. It's very similar actually now that we think about it. So my husband is a personal trainer at heart and is doing work even though his paid job is different now. But we talk about it a lot, these parallels, because with you can walk into a gym and think you know what you're doing, and then and I imagine you guys see these people all the time with your opposite, that they're doing all the things, and in your mind you're probably like, you're not gonna, that's not really gonna get you anywhere, or you're not you know, and um you all you need is a is a guide to say, like, hey, let's let's tailor it to this and this and this, and that then we can be effective with this growth. So yeah, they're very similar. The mind and the body.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah. It's like it's almost like they're you know, one and you know, they're conjoined in a way.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Well, so I'm curious then, kind of going off of what we've been talking about a little bit here, with all of the clients that you have kind of had and worked with, what do you what do you feel like is one lesson that maybe your clients have taught you over the years? I realize that's a pretty, pretty, you know, big question. So there's no rush in.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

I think one thing that comes to mind is sometimes simple is all you need, which I imagine this translates beautifully in your world too. Um, it doesn't really take so the reality for anxiety management, for example, is anxiety is your very natural physiological response that's just overreactive, in essence. That's what anxiety is. It's it's saying, my fight, flight, freeze, all of those things are responding when they don't necessarily need to. So, and that's largely driven, and I would argue mostly driven by your thought process. And so it's as simple as saying, hey, if we can get you to start thinking differently in those moments when you're anxious, um, you can change this anxiety and in fact eliminate, it can be eliminated fully. Now it's not that it sounds very easy, it's very simple, but it's very difficult because we're kind of fighting our biology in those instances. But I've learned it doesn't really have to be this complicated endeavor. We can start with the basics, and that usually is enough to really make some massive changes. I've just seen, I've gotten, I've dug really far into cognitive work, like more specifically, cognitive processing work. And like, which is what I'm talking about, this idea of hey, if we can just capture thoughts or even just observe them and realize like, hmm, I don't really want to go down that road, you can heal depression, you can heal anxiety, you can heal, which honestly, if you can manage your thinking differently, you can address trauma that you've had, you can address poor beliefs that are crappy. It's it's really powerful. So I think just watching clients do some really simple things to have big outcomes has been is rewarding as well. So that's something that comes to mind, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Yeah. I think that's that's huge, honestly. That is I don't think that that's well, what am I trying to say here? I think that that is really an incredible thing, and I think it's very accurate because it's not always the complicated answer, it's not always the you know, you have to give 100%. Sometimes it's like, okay, hey, it's this very simple answer, and you just you do need to give as much as you can, but it's a very simple answer.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

I like that. That's really cool. Yeah, it's funny because I was also I was talking to uh somebody today as well about just like his experience with like panic attacks and things like that, and he is somebody who is very active, and so it's it was an interesting conversation of how fitness and being active can help kind of limit how much of those attacks can happen.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Yeah. So um when if you ever see a video of like a gazelle, a more helpless uh like Serengeti animal, after they've been chased by the cheetah, but the cheetah doesn't get them, if you happen to have it see a video, they like have this big um like shaking attack, and then they it's kind of like this freeze shake where they're releasing all their cortisol and then they just get up, they just pop up and just walk like it was no big deal. So when you're dealing with anxiety, especially panic attacks, so panic attack is just an overwhelming amount of anxiety, not even necessarily physically. I don't know that you're having a wildly higher amount of cortisol coursing or adrenaline coursing through your veins. I think it's the relationship you're having with that experience in your mind that really makes it a panic attack. But that's the question we if come back to. The point being, if you can exert some of that energy with intention, then you can allow the cortisol to move more quickly through your body. So what happens with anxiety is you you have an experience, you tell something scares you uh or triggers you, uh, you get the the shot of adrenaline, cortisol, and then if it's something like let's say you hit the brakes and then you're like, okay, everything's fine, your your your systems will reset. It still takes, I've I've read, like 20 minutes, but it will reset. And because in your mind you're like, ah, there's no threat, if you've never been triggered or had any sort of trauma around driving, then your your body will just uh reset and you won't even think twice about it. So what happens when you get stuck in a cycle of anxiety, which then potentially leads to a panic attack, is you have that rush of emotion, then you get freaked out by that not emotion, that rush of adrenaline and cortisol.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Then you get freaked out about that, so then you get another rush, and so you're just like pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. So if you can, and imagine like all of that on the that's where people are like, I'm shaking, I can't, I can't, um, which that could be some your body, it is, it's trying to release it. It could be like, I can't sleep, my heart's racing, whatever. So if you add some physics physical activity to that, it gets all the things pumping, the blood flowing, whatever, then your body can process through that stuff rather than it just sitting in your body, like the lap a really poor option would probably be to just go sit on the couch if you're highly anxious. It's gonna be a lot harder for you to, you know, it's just it's a little bit harder. It's not impossible, and sometimes that could be the thing to do, but generally, yeah. But fitness is a really good coping tool as long as you're doing it, saying, like, here, I'm gonna just allow my body to kind of work through this and express it regardless of the outcome. Because as soon as you're like, oh, okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go run, which I've done this too. I have my own journey with anxiety, so I'm very familiar with all of what works and what doesn't, is I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go run this out, and then I would get back from a run and I wouldn't feel totally regulated, and then I would get a little more anxious again. But you say, like, you know what, I'm gonna go on this run because I know this is gonna be really good for my body. Um, I don't really, I'm not gonna worry about how I feel when I get back, then it will actually help help the process. So using it for the right thing rather than like I've gotta fix it, but like, you know what, I'm gonna use this to pair with I'm gonna I'm gonna help my body like speed up that or at least cue with the relaxation, the sympathetic system.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah. Okay, so I've got I've got a pretend this maybe this might be a dumb question, then I'm not sure. But um because I know that when it comes to those overwhelming like feelings, those over like where you you know, like you were mentioning, you start shaking.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

What is the difference between somebody's response when it comes to they begin shaking versus somebody who almost like starts to disassociate? Because I know like some people when they go into like shock, it it reacts differently. Some people, it's like they're immediately, you know, hardwired, they're just running, they're extremely hyper-focused, and other people like panic and they don't know how to handle it. And so what is the difference then there between somebody who is kind of calm and collected when they have maybe that overwhelming feeling? Like, is that something that can happen where it's like, hey, they're having so much anxiety that their body almost like goes into shock? I I don't know if that's right.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

I yeah, well, one of the tr the tr the um the fight, flight, freezer, fawn system is I fight, right? I want to literally that could be uh I get angry, I physically fight, okay. Flight is I'm gonna run away from this. Uh freeze is what I think maybe more of what you're talking about, this kind of like total shutdown, and then fawn, which most people don't really know about, is when you're overly pleasing in order to satiate or to to manage the anxiety. So that would be like I'm triggered by a controlling so-and-so, and so when they start getting controlling and I started getting anxious, then I just give in to whatever they say. So that's a fun. A freeze person, I think, is kind of that dissociated. I don't know what to do. I've been conditioned either to not have a voice or to not be able to do anything, or I've a lot of trauma from childhood where I wasn't able to. Um, and yeah, you just kind of yeah, sort of shut down, disconnect, they're hard to reach. Um, but that's your body's that's a whole different particle. They're all protective measures. That's just preventing you from feeling all of the crap, which I've never, but seems like that would be very similar to the shock kind of cis. Like when you get have experienced shock, I wonder if it's a similar physiological process. I don't know, but interesting.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Well, that's um, yeah, I'm I'm curious about that then. That'd be because I've I've heard of the I've heard of how like your body will react certain ways to help like protect itself. And so that is really cool that you're able to have those three different forms. And it's it was been a long time. I hadn't learned about Fawn until actually, you know, very recently as well. And so it's kind of cool that I feel like I agree with you. I think that's the one thing that a lot of people aren't familiar with is that third that third option that your body has to try and protect itself.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

So I want to man, the what the body is just wild. Um so I want to I want to take one quick step back into what we were talking about just before I went on that, and we were talking about how exercise is a great way to help kind of regulate your emotions. What would you say, what role do you think it plays in like stress regulation and being able to help process your emotions? Like how is it something that you recommend to your clients pretty often, or like what for you know the average person, how important do you think it is for them to incorporate some form of exercise to help with that?

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Well, it is. I mean, sleep, exercise, the health we have to take care of the foundation if because all of those things a healthy body powers the mind, right? So an unhealthy body. For example, I know you're asking about fitness, but sleep, sleep deprivation, you can have sleep deprivation-induced psychosis. I mean, just because you haven't slept. So, which I think I don't know about psychosis, but I think is a big part of the postpartum issue for women after they have babies, is they are so sleep deprived that things start getting really disorganized in their brain. Um, so one thing I thought of number one, it's fitness is is good, a regular rhythm of managing your body is really good. But something also um you've probably noticed this, but if you ever go on a walk with somebody, conversation, although you're you're a very good conversationalist, so you might not notice. But let's say you're on a walk with my husband, who is tends to be quieter, you get somebody like that on a walk and they start chatting a lot more. Um there's something really uh beautiful happening with the cadence of like of moving, it's a bilateral stimulation in that way. The walk, the and we um what is this?

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Sway a little bit back and forth.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

So if anyone's familiar with Ian. MDR, that's kind of the whole baseline of that trauma work is this like rapid eye back and forth, so you're stimulating. All that to say, um, that can be really healing, it can be really a really great tool for processing. A person could could go on a really good walk with intention, and like, you know what? My intention here is to kind of process this thing. I'm gonna think about whatever, and they could get to a really cool place of closure by the end, or you know, an answer, whatever it is. So, even just our body is wired to move and moving heels, right? That's just like one example. You you probably have even more. Um, so I find though that yeah, even walking is really hard. Getting people out and moving, even a little bit really difficult. Um, but I know I'm trying to think off the top of my head, I can't think of a lot of the other like direct benefits, um, other than um I imagine it helps your cortisol stay more regulated. Um, I know for so I can speak from experience, when I was going through, I had like a good handful of years of like pretty high anxiety, waking up at 4 a.m. like just bad. And my husband was like, you need to exercise, like you need to exercise. And it actually was a really great way to start the day because I would always wake up with uh a lot of um energy, a lot of anxious energy. And it was a again, it was a really good way to kind of start my day with processing through that. So there I wasn't I didn't finish the exercise like I said earlier and just say, um, I'm no problem, I feel fine. But it did, I think, take a significant edge off um of that. And also, my thought was like, if I've got all this energy, then I should what a better, no better way to get like energy to work out when I maybe don't want to. So it's yeah, twofolds. And then I would listen to a podcast, just soon I'd go running, um, I would be outside. So mindfulness when you're exercising, especially outside, it's really so it's a fearful.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Just basically just trying to get the body moving in one way or another, kind of yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Yeah, an idle body can really not be good. It can really be tricky for your brain. Like it just when I so when you're I know I can't go back to anxiety, but when you experience um that moment of anxiety, what kind another thing that kind of happens is you can mentally kind of go really inward. Like I'm really focused on what I'm feeling, I'm really focused on what I'm thinking. But if if you can kind of tune out, um then that kind of disrupts that. You can't like highly focused on counting leaves on a tree, or like I'm gonna go on this walk and I'm gonna count my steps, and also focused on whatever the anxious noise is.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

So it's also a good tool for mindfulness, which is a really good mental health tool, period. I think.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Awesome. I appreciate your insight on that. That's yeah. I we have a very similar, we have a saying in like the industry where it's like if you don't move it, you lose it when it comes to just like muscle and like your health as a generalized thing. And I I kind of I sometimes I'm like, I always wonder, I'm like, I wonder if it's like similar to like the mental aspect where it's like if you're not actually training like your mind, if you're not really working on the your emotional state and trying to regulate these things regularly, then you become less good at it.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah. Yeah. When people tell me, and I hear this way more from men, when people tell me, like, oh, I'm just I'm not really emotional, or I'm just so regulated, or I'm just so even keel. I would never sometimes that is a really regulated person. There are definitely people are, but most of the time when I hear that, what they're what I'm hearing is I'm emotionally disconnected from myself, and I because of that, I've got that door shut, so it's really easy to stay kind of in this lane. I'll probably get angry sometimes because it can't it'll spill out the door. Um yeah, we have we are emotional beings. That is a part of how we were created, and if we're not allowing that door to be open and integrating with all of these other beautiful parts of us, then yeah, there's going to be a handicap somewhere. Um, and it often impacts relationships, like it just leads to maladaptive relational functioning.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Rough. Yeah. So kind of a follow-up question regarding that, then how is there a way that you can kind of tell if somebody is is emotionally burnt out versus maybe like physically exhausted or like you know, sleep deprived?

SPEAKER_01 27:13

I think they're also interwoven. That's the thing. Physical exhaustion could could lead to mental exhaustion. Mental exhaustion could lead to physical exhaustion. Um yeah, I think they just are married together. Uh yeah. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find one slowly divorced from the other. Gotcha. Unless you're, like I said, completely disconnected from your emotions, and then that's a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

So just basically somebody who kind of like you were saying feels like they have no need for their emotions because they're always composed is more than likely also experiencing probably one of two of both of these other things, then.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Yeah, that's a you said it actually really perfectly. I'm so composed. I don't need to process any emotion. It's like, well, it's there.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

It's absolutely there.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

And it cannot not impact you. It impacts you somewhere. Um, you just might not be aware of it. But you could probably ask your significant other or your best friend, and they might be able to tell you where it is.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

That that whole outside perspective really helps in those situations. Gotcha. Well then, so kind of on that outside perspective, what would you say are like some subtle signs when somebody's stress levels are getting too much? Uh because I'm I'm sure that they probably show up differently for most people. But I would I would also assume that there's probably, and again, I could be wrong, but I would imagine there's probably at least like some pretty common ones that you have seen.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

So before I answer that, you might have to ask the question again if I forget. I do want to say this one really cool thing called, well, resiliency is a cool thing too. That's our ability to bounce back. But distress tolerance is the ability we have to tolerate distress. And that actually, in our world, we call it the window of tolerance. Like, how much can I, what's my cap to where I'm now I'm no longer functioning well? But that you can you can build that, like you can stretch that. So if somebody is constantly stressed, then there are ways to like increase that tolerance for stress. By the way, we don't have to go there right now, but I just want to say it's it's cool how our bodies can adapt, right? Um, and we don't want to ignore it to the point where we're just like, oh, I'm so stressed, but I I don't do anything about it. So yeah, I remember the question. So sleep, sleep issues, irritability, probably one of the biggest ones. Um uh kind of becoming reclusive if they're able, or whenever they can. Like I'm just just withdrawing from the people and the things. Um inability, like concentration issues, inability to accomplish things and get stuff done. Um basically, when you're over stressed, you're it's kind of like your system is um like electrocuted, kind of. It's like I cannot do all of the things I'm supposed to do. Your brain, your brain is not wired at a certain point. There's this cool bell curve where like a certain the right amount of stress is really beneficial, right? That's what pushes you to do hard things, that's what's gonna push you to keep do another set, like yeah, but then you crest that and now it's maladaptive, and that's when we start getting unhealthy. Um, and so we're trying to ideally like minimize the cresting of that, um, and that's where we just kind of shut down. So I would say, like, the answer to that would be well, what does it look like when you shut down? And I think that's a really good thing for people to check in with themselves about and have an awareness of, because if you can catch it early, like what are my signs of burnout, what are my signs of overstress, uh, then you can catch it early, and then your the impact obviously will be much less.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Yeah. And it's interesting that you talk about those things because I so I have ADHD, and so I already struggle a little bit with the focusing and you know, sleeping at a reasonable time. And so it's it's very interesting though, because I for the longest time I never really paid too much attention to it, but the amount of like sleep that I get and then the amount of stress that I find myself under, when I am getting very stressed, I notice that it becomes harder for me to focus, and I'm noticing that I'm struggling with it a lot more, and it's always like you know, even if I'm on like my medication, sometimes it still is like that. And it's I don't think I ever really kind of put the two and two together of like how stress can affect also like your you know cognitive perception, how you can be able to focus and perceive things around you.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Totally. You get these are slightly different things, but you when you I come back to the five-point freeze, when you get into that mode, so this is a version of that I would say, your body says, Hey, we don't need to be solving any math problems right now, we need to keep you alive. So it kind of I think forces you into sort of a shutdown, and that's when you need to listen to it because that's what your body needs. I often tell people, hey, if you're like daydreaming about things, if you're um wishing for things, you're you're just feeling these desires, it's probably an indication of what you might be needing. Now that doesn't mean, oh, I'm gonna go and cheat on my spouse because I'm feeling like I want to thrill, right? It's like, oh gosh, I'm like having these dreams. I'm I might need a thrill. Oh, maybe I need something new in my life. Or mine is always like I'm thinking about the places I want to visit. And it's like, because I need a break. I need a um, I have a four and a six-year-old. It's like I need quiet and calm, and I need nobody to ask me for anything. So, so listen to those things when you can, right? But your your body will tell you it's very cool. Your body will tell you what you what you need if you listen.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Yeah, which again is probably so similar to your work, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:50

It is, yeah. If you're if you start paying attention to your body and you're like, okay, hey, you know, I'm you know, you start realizing you're dehydrated, and then you drink some water, and then you realize, oh shoot, I'm also very hungry now. And it's just you don't always realize that the two are connected. If if you're dehydrated, you're gonna be less hungry. And so then once you start hydrating, it's like, oh shoot, you know, now I'm hungry as well. And so, you know, even though that's not necessarily the mental aspect, hydration is just one of those things that also plays a huge part, even in your you know, your mental state. So yeah, it is really cool how the body connects the physical and the mental all together.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

There's a there's a really famous, that's a kind of a weird way to put it, trauma book called The Body Keeps the Score.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

And it's all of yeah, yeah, it's super heady.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

I wouldn't say it's an average for everybody, but um I would say that it is true, right? It's true. Our body holds our trauma, our body holds our body, anyways. Same thing we're kind of talking about.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Yeah, yeah, it is a very good book, and I forget who do you remember who it's by? I can't remember off the top of my head. Gotcha. That is a name. But it is a very good book. I mean, I I haven't personally uh read like from front to back, but it's a book that my wife has read like that just because it's you know kind of along in her field a little bit, and it's really fascinating. And I mean, she's obviously talked to me about it a lot, so it's it's very fascinating to hear like how trauma really affects your body and how it'll block things out, and then you know, you could be doing a certain type of exercise, and all of a sudden you start having an attack, and it's like, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

It's wild stuff.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

That's why we need it all. That's why you need the mental health, the physical health, the emotional health, the yeah, it is it is very important to keep the keep your whole body balanced.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

If you want to, I yeah, I don't know. I'm I'm always a big fan of taking care of your mental health. I that's something that I always work with my clients on as well. As I'm always like, hey, like I have a client right now that has just like he's he's moving, he just had a kid, he lost a family member, and he's just not sleeping well either. And I'm like, dude, you've got so much going on right now. Like you I'm not as worried about you making it into the gym every day. I'm more worried about you, okay, let's work on your sleep, make sure that you know you're drinking water and just really taking care of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Yeah, start. I mean, yes. Aren't you basics? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah. I don't want you to have to try and look for the end of the book if you haven't even started it.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

So awesome.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

So I do have one more question for you. Um, kind of along that, obviously, the mental health still, but what are what are some healthy ways that you have suggested for people to process their emotions instead of suppressing them?

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Hmm. There's a there's a it's a nursery, but it's also a book, and it's it's going on a bear hunt. And at one point, at the very end of it, yeah, look it up. At the very end of it, he they're talking about like you can't go over this, I don't remember what it is. You can't go under it, you can't go around it, you've got to go through it. And that's such a good metaphor of you've got to experience, you've got to allow yourself to connect to emotions. Now, that doesn't mean like you're gonna go do a training session with somebody and you just had, you know, a difficult morning or whatever. That doesn't mean you can't shelf that temporarily to be professional, but it does mean at some point, like I'm gonna spend some time in my car just thinking about it, or I'm gonna cry, or I'm gonna journal. Processing can be so many things, it just has to be done. And processing really is just allowing you to think, and then with that comes the feeling. Maybe I'm gonna put on a sets on, I'm just gonna feel it all. Um, and that's the main thing is just giving yourself permission to feel. I think a lot of times people, especially people that experience depression, they get worried. If I feel it, I'm gonna get stuck there. And that's actually the opposite of what's true. We're so afraid of them, we push them away that then they boomerang back. When in reality, this is really true of grief too. If we are allowing ourselves to invite it in in a in a in a way that's manageable, meaning again, like, okay, this that's I'm really overwhelmed. Okay, now I'm gonna go watch my favorite show. But I allowed myself time to like connect with myself. So there's a really good book that the title has flown from my mind. Um, but I thought it I got it free from the nonprofit I work at. I also work in a nonprofit, and I it was one of those, like, well, I guess I'll read it, I have it. And it actually was very good. He has an acronym, uh, ruler, and each part of that is speaking to emotional literacy. So it's recognizing emotion, understanding emotion. Um, I can't remember what all the other ones are, I'm gonna probably get them wrong. But man, I wish I could pull them on top of top of my head. But if anyone in their comment in your comments asks about it, I can get back to you. But the point is like it's a process. You gotta understand emotions, you have to understand your emotions, you have to understand how you express emotions, you've got and also processing doesn't mean big expression. You can process quietly, you can process alone, you can process without tears even. Nothing's wrong with it's not a way to do it as long as you do it, which is vague. But what I would say for somebody who is like, I feel so emotionally constipated, I don't know how to connect to myself. I would say, okay, spend five minutes, maybe ten minutes at a reasonable amount of time for yourself, give it a parameter so you don't get freaked out about it. Like, well, I guess I'll be here for six hours feeling my emotions, and then I would say, just I don't know, pick a topic, something that has come up lately that can evoke emotion and just think through it, and maybe even ask yourself, even looking up feelings vocabulary, and like what of these do I feel right now?

unknown 40:14

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

So it just gotta go through it. Can't go around.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

And so you were saying the what was that book called, the bear one? What was the title of it?

SPEAKER_01 40:27

It's going on a bear hunt.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

It's going on a bear hunt. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

The little chunk thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Yeah, I've never heard that one before. So that is that is interesting. I'm gonna honestly I'm gonna have to look that up because I'm a child at heart, and so I love those types of books. Um, but no, I think that honestly, with the whole it's a vague statement that you had made. I don't I think that's probably the best way to put it though, because a lot of times it similar to the fitness industry, your body is your own. It's different than everyone else's, so there's no one way that is gonna work for every single person. And so I think when it comes to processing emotions, that's gonna look differently for one person than it would for the next.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

My husband, he has had he had a really big loss in a cousin like last year, and he had a couple of big cries about it. Yeah, that kind of was it for him. Like, and he really did, uh he's not a stuffer generally, so it could be that. Um and then allowing, like, I say too, like, if feelings come, just just try to allow, like, I'm just gonna sit there for a couple minutes. And then usually you do, and then you start thinking about something else, and then you move on, and that's that's it.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Yeah, yeah, and then just allowing yourself that time. I think that's huge. And I think that was honestly for me, that was the one thing that I feel like I didn't understand for a very long time. Was like, okay, what does what does it mean to process my emotions? Like, I don't want to just be thinking about the past, like, that's just gonna make me sad and depressed, so I end up you end up just blocking it out. Yeah, but then I think you had mentioned it, you kind of just keep coming back to it.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Yeah, and be like, man, that was a really hard thing I went through, or like it was a really sad thing, and then you just kind of feel it. But that is a perfect, like, close the loop of what we started of well, that's what you go to therapy for. Like, let me go to therapy. That thing keeps making me feel sad every time I think about it. And I'm like, really sad. Okay, well, maybe I should go and talk talking. I feel like, and also it's not like you're gonna be laying on the couch in this weird position, someone's gonna be standing behind you with a clipboard. It's like just a it's a person to talk through something with, which I would also suggest if you're also very freaked out of emotions. Um, I know this would be a big step, but then go to therapy and just talk about your emotions. Just be like, I'm here to learn about my emotions. You will, I guarantee you, you will be able to do it there with your guide, your therapeutic guide.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Yes. Well, and so actually that give that I think that kind of brings up a good little like closing point here. When it comes to therapy, um my wife has actually, I think, kind of encouraged me on this before. I've had therapists that I feel like I didn't connect with very well. So I guess coming from your perspective as a therapist, what do you how do you feel when a client is like, hey, I don't know if this is working out, like I need a different therapist? Like, is that something that you take personal? I've you know, I'm or is it like, no, hey, that's totally understandable. Like, again, it's different for every single person, so not every client meshes well with every single like trainer or therapist.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Yeah. Um, I I wouldn't say it doesn't I don't have any feelings about it. I'm a human and it is a ver it is a form of rejection. But then you quickly have to remind yourself it's not about me, it's about them. I will say though, I don't hear that very often from clients, not because I'm an exceptional therapist per se, but because they usually will just ghost you.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

And you never know why they don't come back. Um, but I do that is something. This is a good thing for your listeners. If you are having thoughts or feelings about therapy or your therapist, please voice them. We only know what we know, we only do the best we can. And I love it when a client has had therapy before because they at least have some frame of reference of what they liked or didn't like, and then at least have a starting point of like, great, we're never gonna do that thing because you hate that before. Um, but no, you that's never something you should ever worry about your therapist taking. I mean, their feelings need to be dealt with by them. You as the client, you just be honest. But I will say, there can be a really great benefit to meeting with someone who challenges you, or you kind of feel a little like, hmm. So I'd say before you just bye, I'm gonna ghost you, just have a have some maybe talk to somebody in your life or even to the therapist. That would be even better, and just explore why you feel that resistance because sometimes that's your own stuff, and actually would be really good for you to continue to work out with that person. But also, it's better that you go to therapy than you're like, ah, now I have to work, then just pick another therapist and move on, like keep going. But it could be a cool, a cool thing.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

That's good. I appreciate that. Yeah, I think that it that is some very good insight because I'm I know just coming from even just the fitness background, like not every client meshes the best with trainers, and so sometimes you want to swap them out, and a lot of times clients can feel very awkward about that. And so I think it's good for all of us to be able to understand, like, hey, you know, one, try and face those emotions, talk to the person about it first, and then from there you guys can always you know work out what what the next steps are.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

Yeah, it's really it's a really good practice and assertiveness for a client to have to have that very uncomfortable conversation with a therapist who whether you realize it or not, you see in you see as like a uh what's the word I'm gonna look for, but as a higher up kind of a person. Like you see in a certain way, and so it's really weird to have to be like, I don't really know if I like meeting with you anymore. But also so good to grow in that skill because most of us are all way too nice and have a hard time hurting. So it could be a really good thing that even if you just have that conversation to say, I'm gonna do this so I can grow in my assertiveness. No other reason. It could, yeah, it could be good for you.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Gosh, that hits a little close to home for me. I assertiveness is the one thing that Grace keeps telling me I need to work on, so I'm like, oh no. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on the podcast and doing this and just being willing to share your knowledge and inspiration for us.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Yeah, thank you so much for letting me say so many things, and I hope I hope it was helpful to somebody, and that you will maybe take a step into therapy towards therapy, whatever that looks like for you. Um if you if you honestly do it with an open heart and you find a good person you connect with, it can change your life. So so let it. Let it.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Yeah, I agree. I couldn't I couldn't agree more honestly. So yeah. Well, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

You're welcome.