Episode 46 - Invincible by Robert Kirkman

Hi everyone, Mike's back on the Mic and we have some takes for Invincible!

Next week, Alias Redband by Sam Humphries! 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hey everyone, welcome to the Comic Books Beyond Podcast. On this show, we aim to demystify comic books and help new readers find their way in, and we try to have fun while doing it. I'm your host, Vic, and I'm here with my co-host. Hey guys, I'm Mike. Hey, Mike's back. It's been ever so long since uh I've talked to him because he wasn't on the last episode, and we're not batch recording at all, are we?

SPEAKER_00 0:22

No, not at all. Yeah, no, no. It has been at least a fiscal week.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Yeah, absolutely a fiscal week, and uh we, you know, haven't talked to each other much. So anything changed since last time I saw you?

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Well, I think like my my beard has might have grown another sixteenth of an inch.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Yeah, yeah, it's about about how long. Um so today we are talking about Invincible by Robert Kirkman, and uh Corey Walker is the artist on this one. I had to double check. Uh so the reason we're talking about Invincible, now Mike's never seen the show Invincible, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 0:58

I've never seen the show. I've never read the this was this was a blind read for me of issue one. Gotcha. Um I have no knowledge of Invincible other than people really like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Cool. And uh so this one we talked about Walking Dead by Robert Kirkman.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Uh it was like two weeks ago now, definitely two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

God, I thought it was a month.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Yeah, it's it's been ever so long. We're batch recording if you guys can't tell. I just just want to be clear why we're being weird on this one. I really like Invincible. The show uh is on its fourth season now. I'm really enjoying the show. I've seen the first four episodes of season four. This will be coming out like towards the end. Uh, I've read all of Invincible, and if you want to know how much I like Invincible, uh, I think the last compendium I read in like a weekend, like all of it. Uh we don't really have much in the way of show news, but I do I think we can make that one announcement of the thing we talked about yesterday, right? The new series. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

So do you do you want to kick that one off, or do you want me to? So we are going to be coming out with a new a new run of episodes um called over, under, or appropriately hype. Um we're gonna we're gonna pick out different different characters and we're gonna do popul very popular story story runs, read through them, and you know, determine our opinion on whether it is appropriately hyped for for what it is. Um, you know, did it stand the test of time? And we have already made our first batch of of uh topics that we're going to go through. And uh the first one we're going to do is the the Hush storyline from Batman.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Yep. And to be very clear, we're talking about Hush 1, the original Hush, because uh you might have to pay me to talk about Hush 2.

unknown 2:53

Oh God, it's bad.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

And I think uh we haven't really worked out the full logistics on this yet, but I think that's actually gonna be uh YouTube-based content, uh, just to give some people to check out our YouTube's uh stuff because we're gonna have more and more stuff going up on there, like reviews and uh a lot of the less unhinged interviews are gonna be going there in addition to this show. Uh we maybe we can drop one or two on the feed here, just depending um if we think it's appropriate.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah, or we can batch them all together, do a drop every season. Oh, that could work. You know, like we finish the finish the five the five episode season of of over, under, or appropriately hyped. Yep. And drop them all together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Um we we really have to like talk more of the logistics of this. We got this idea literally yesterday, and Mike's a great litmus test for this because I've been entranced in this world for ever so long. And uh it's it's it's hard for me to not have some kind of nostalgia goggles for it. So like when I pick up um Batman Year One, uh Batman Year One, great comic book, even though I'm not a big Frank Miller guy, uh I I like that story a lot. And then Mike picked it up, and uh you said, you know, it was a good story, but like I can't remember all of your points, but you rattled off a list of like this doesn't make sense, uh, this is not clear, this is kind of out of character, even if he's new. So I I kind of just want your take on some of those things. And I think some of the other crew are probably gonna join us for some things. I just uh like we have a rotating cast here.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

So um Yeah, I I definitely will see others through this, but I like I said before, I'm very I'm very new to the comic world. I've only read a couple, you know, collected runs throughout my teenage and twenties. So um there's no nostalgia goggles for me. Everything has been net new for for the most part, and I feel like it's a good it's a good test because for for Vic, there's a lot of there's uh these are all gonna be like revisits for the most part. I think two are brand new for both of us.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Yeah, so well, three are actually brand new for me. So we picked out five. So we're starting with Batman Hush. So how we did this is I said, Mike, why don't you pick five characters, teams, properties, and maybe a decade to correspond, and we'll um, you know, we'll uh I'll think of a famous run and we'll go from there. Uh we I might include that like the draft we did in the first episode for fun. There's a little uh a little not spoiler, but a teaser. And you know, let's not announce everything. There's actually one I did want to double check something on and maybe talk to you about because I think I just thought of something that's actually good. Not good. Um, I shouldn't say it like that. There's one much more famous that my idiot brain wasn't thinking of yesterday. The first one is gonna be Batman Hush, and then we're honestly just gonna roll a die to uh figure out what the next one is, and then we'll we'll drop them. So this is kind of like a prototype of that issue or of that series. Like the the issue we're talking about today, I mean.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Oh, yeah, no, I mean it it it does fit the prototype because I know nothing about Invincible. Yep. And this was a blind read for me, and it's gonna I'm just gonna give you my unbridled opinions on not knowing anything. Sure. Besides that this run has a lot of hype. Yep. I know a lot of people love uh love love this entire run, and it is very well received.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Okay, before we go any further, do you know the spoiler about this show? No. Okay, cool. No, we're not gonna even talk about that then. I know nothing besides issue one content. Oh, wow, this is ow, you were really uh virginal on this one. That's awesome. Uh so do you want to give a uh a summary of this one or do you want me to?

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Um I can give a summary if you want. I have one I have one written up. So Invincible Issue One is a coming-of-age story, classes, college applications, shitty part-time jobs, and superpowers. I'm interested to see where this goes. But I have a lot of probably unpopular opinions so far. Ooh, I can't wait for this. So um my kickoff with this is that as far as an issue one goes, I feel like it was kind of thin. Okay. I like it, like if there was not the overwhelming hype and you know, uh having so much love from the community, I don't think I would keep reading this. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

That's that's that's a tough one. Um you're maybe not that out of line there though. So there's a ton of hype around this, which is why I was uh kept reading. Um so I have a couple things to say on like production that isn't gonna spoil anything uh before we go on. Is that okay? Yeah, no, that's fine. I don't do a ton of research on these, I just happen to know a couple of this stuff. Um, so one of the things I happen to know, there is a major plot point that I believe was moved up because they were actually getting ready to cancel the series since it wasn't as received as well. Uh, because it is kind of it feels almost generic in a way. Like it's good writing, but it's nothing we hadn't seen before. And they do a couple twists and turns that uh I think they just accelerated that to do it. And uh a couple other things I just want to point out. I actually think the show is better in a lot of aspects. I'm not saying one is better than the other because the show's still ongoing and this and the uh comic is uh wrapped up, but there's uh tie-ins and a sequel series is going on. There's things in the show that I think are just better than uh handled better in here, because there's nothing like bad in this first issue, like nothing I even want to put a disclaimer on. This just feels like a superhero story. There's certain jokes in this that I will just tell you didn't age very well, uh, and you'll be like, oh, well, I can see why we don't talk like that anymore. It's nothing too, too bad, but it was of the time. Because this also came out in 2003. I think this actually comes out before Walking Dead. Uh so this actually I guess is Robert Kirkman's like first thing. Um as far as the show goes, you might be more interested in the show than the comic for a while, but the comic where the show leaves off, I think would be a great compendium.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Well, like we talked about in the last the last episode that we recorded. Um I'm our I'm I'm enthralled in Walking Dead right now, so I'm not gonna have time to get to the show. So this might be something that I I read first and then do the show after. Just to kind of stagger. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

No, it's fine. Um so do we want to go into your uh quote unquote unpopular opinions?

SPEAKER_00 10:10

So I think like that the heaviest hitting on popular opinion was that you know if it didn't have the hype behind it and have you know so much material and different mediums that you know it's presented in. Um that you know, that tips me off that it's you know going to develop and be really good. But if I pick this up at a comic book store on release day, like day one, and read it, and I would just go, this is just a general superhero story. It kind of just it has a like lukewarm origin story to invincible and um you know I don't know, I like more I like the more elaborate origin stories. Like gaining gaining superpowers through like through puberty, basically, it is probably like the softest origin story I've encountered so far.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

So, in a way, this story is kind of um this is a superhero deconstruction story, I believe. And I think this is actually meta commentary on being a comic book creator overall, because you have stuff like there's clear references to other superhero comics here, like uh Invincible is basically Superman Light. They have a lot of world building where you can see stuff that is like kind of the stand-in for the Justice League, like they talk about like the Guardians of the Globe. Uh, you have the puberty metaphor that works both for you know X-Men and for Spider-Man. The last the characters, did you pick up on the character's last name? Um, I don't think I did. So his last his name is Mark Grayson.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Oh, that's right. I did see that. His last name is Grayson. Yep. Um, this was another one. Uh disclaimer, so this is this issue one is available for free to anybody on the image website. Do not read it on your phone. Your eyes will burn and blur and cross.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Yeah, so one of the main advantages of like digital reads is you have things like Zoom and uh panel to panel. You don't get that on the image site. They are giving you a free comic, just you know, you take the free candy and you move on, but don't don't go too too deep on it on your phone.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah, read this read if you're gonna preview any of the image website issue ones that are available to read browser or tablet at a minimum. The phone was not the way to go.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Yeah, it was bad. And I've read this all digitally before on other apps that are not sponsored and won't get shout-outs unless uh they start sponsoring or change their ways. Yeah, I'm trying not to dwell on that. I don't I don't want to give them the time of day. I'm pissed off about one of the apps we use. Yeah, no, uh rightfully so. In other words, fuck AI. Exactly. This uh we'll we we will not use AI. Nope, nope, nope, no AI on on this one. We will not review your AI comic book because that is bullshit. Uh so let's get back to Invincible and just not dump all over something we hate. Um so you're uh lukewarm on this?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

I am. I was very lukewarm on it. It was I feel like now that you said, you know, it's a deconstruction more of, you know, kind of all it like it's kind of piecemeals of all the different, you know, mainline superheroes. And it's gonna be a breakdown piece, I feel like, over time. Like we're gonna like kind of like how Watchmen was a a whole hot take on heroes and like the problematic side that they could have. But and this is not Watchmen. This uh No, not not that's the vibe. I I don't get that vibe, just more in like the loose uh like like the lo it's more of a loose reference.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Do we ever want to cover Watchmen on this show? Like that's one where I'm so scared to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

I would I personally would like to. Okay. I mean, it's still one of my favorite runs. Yeah, no, I'm I'm all for doing Watchmen. I think I've consumed all the Watchmen media that you can at this point.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

I mean, it's only 12 issues. That's the only thing that exists. That's that's the only thing you need or need to read or consume, right? Absolutely. Only 12 issues.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

That's well, technically that's all that inside. I mean, there's a lot there's a lot of pre and post uh I I I I know why we're dancing around. Yeah. Especially the post. The pre-stuff was underwhelming.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah, there's there was like one one of those issues that I I think we both liked, and that was about it. Um some of the art was nice, and uh so but yeah, this this is I think I don't I don't I don't want to sit here and say Robert Kirkman was sitting saying he's the second coming of Alan Moore. I don't think that's what he was trying, but I think he was trying to deconstruct superheroes in, you know, put it in a modern deconstructionist sense, where uh, you know, this is him trying to show this is what superheroes would actually be like. But a lot of your points are really valid because this is kind of like a hollow story when you think about it, because it's basically you have almost a milktose character who happens to get superhero stuff and then you know he goes out and stops some crime. But I think and I don't know if you picked up on this one, because I don't actually think you could have based on this issue. I want your opinion on what you think the most important scene in this whole first issue is, because I have one that like made my head go.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Off the top of my head, I don't think anything really jumped out to me through this whole thing. Like, even exp even while while he was experimenting trying to figure out if he, you know, developed superpowers yet, because we know his dad has superpowers. His dad is, I don't remember his dad's superhero name. Omni Man. Omni Man, that's right. Um we know that he is a superhero, but is his mom also a superhero? Ah, valid question, because we don't know based on this. Yeah, because there was nothing really saying yes or no. I think it's a possibility. Um, but then you know, like how does that play out in like the whole how genes are passed down from both sides but from both parents, you know, like was there was there an a possibility that even though his dad is Omni-Man, like would would he just, you know, potentially just be a regular human if his mom is just human?

SPEAKER_02 16:48

And we also just don't know a whole heck of a lot about Omni Man in this one. We get he's kind of a Superman stand-in, like that's pretty obvious, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yes, though he is obviously just uh, you know, a pair like almost not so much a parody, but he's kind of like a similarity to Superman.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Yeah, in homage. It's it's cut from the same he's cut from the same uh archetype.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

He can fly, he's basically he's basically invulnerable to everything. Um it's he's super strong, he's fighting what, a dragon.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yep. So we're like we like it's Superman and Superboy in a way, kind of like that's what I think we're looking at here, right? We don't know anything about Omni Man in this other than he's a Superman stand-in. Like that's all we got. And we know he's a writer. That's the I think the only other thing we know. So we don't know Omni Man's origin. We don't know is he like some kind of science experiment? Uh is he an interdimensional creature? Is he like a resurrected uh zombie who got superpowers? Is he an X-Men? Is we don't know if everybody in the world has superpowers, or if that's a thing you just might get, or if there's like a mutate gene or an X-Gene or um uh meta gene. Like so we we don't know any of that. None of that's answered or even set up in this, is it?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

I don't think they even put out besides besides Omni Man and Invincible, we don't even know if there's other superheroes, period.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Uh so they do actually reference the Guardians of the Globe, which is their Justice League in this. Oh yeah, that's right. Um we know there's a dragon, and there is uh one other character. Uh I actually forget that dude's name. Uh he's um there there's another there's another super person just like you see in this one. He doesn't really do a lot of super person stuff though. But I want to throw this one your way. Uh I'm gonna see if this one blows your hair back. I don't know if it will. So when his dad, when Omniman takes Mark, because we don't even know uh Omni if Omniman has a human name, like do they ever actually say that? I don't recall. Okay. Phone reading was hard. Gotcha. I I uh I know the answer to that question. I'm I'm just asking from your experience. Um so I want to try to try try to throw this one your way. So he takes them to the tailor. Now, I don't think they actually say the name of the tailor in this show or in this um issue, but the tailor's name is Art, short for Arthur. So I think that's a very deliberate thing. I think he's the he's a stand-in for the artist, and I think that scene is a commentary or just kind of like a meta meta stand-in for Robert Kirkman and his artist sitting down, having a conversation. We need to design an iconic looking superhero because a cool-looking superhero sells way better than an uncool looking superhero. That's what I think this this story is about, this specific issue.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

That's a great point. Because that the like and the the direct word he uses iconic. So that was he the Invincible was not thrilled with the initial costume design, but he also didn't have a name. Um he wasn't exactly sure, and um it definitely comes from, you know, I I I see where you're going with that now because from the perspective of, you know, trying to draw something for someone or you know, some type of marketing or anything like that, there's a lot of buzzwords that don't really have a meaning. It's just more of like a word to describe a feeling of how something is portrayed, and that's kind of what the whole discussion about iconic was. It's like someone going, like, oh, I like that commercial, but it didn't have enough pizzazz. Now there is no technical definition of what would give it more pizzazz, and no one like no one coming to you would ever say that. It's just like they wouldn't be able to describe what it is, it's just a vibe, basically, and the vibes are off with the initial costume. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

And like that's um like uh I think his name being art is super intentional here. Like and I don't think they say his name is Art. I don't know if that was like an oversight or if they had to like retcon it, and I'm maybe ascribing meaning to where it isn't, because like you just said, there's a bunch of vibey words out there that we're ascribing meaning to, and you know, on a comic book podcast, that's kind of what you do. Uh, but like I kind of see this as like designing a superhero and just like what a creative team goes through to create something that looks cool uh and to be recognizable. Like that's part of being a superhero is you need to be recognizable. Because uh, let's take the deconstruction aspect out of this and just say we're writing a standard superhero story. Uh imagine you were the first person to ever write Superman. Uh you look at Superman, he's he's iconic looking, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Like we can just say that. Oh yes. I mean, I I I would say Superman's one of the most iconic superheroes that we have. Like he's probably one of the most iconic characters, superhero or not. And you look at Yeah, regardless of if you're into comics or not, like everybody knows who Superman is, and I think like Batman's a close second.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Yep, and and Spider-Man and probably Captain America now. Uh but th those characters are iconic, they're eye-catching, and uh those those characters are inspirational looking. Like you can look at Superman and you can get the vibe of protection and hope, and um, you know, as opposed to uh let's say early image comics of the 90s. I don't know how well versed in that stuff you are, but you know you know who Spawn is, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar with Spawn. It doesn't invoke the same uh thoughts as uh Superman, like you don't get an image of hope. You get probably an image of dread and edginess. And uh with Mark becoming invincible, like do you get any particular vibe from his costume other than you know the first costume is just bad?

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Yeah, the first costume was just meh. Um I don't know, at least in from issue one, looking at like you know, towards the end of his you know finalized costume. I don't I I don't think I would rate it the same as like Superman's comic uh like outfit or Batman's outfit. Like it doesn't like I see it and it may just be there's an unfamiliarity to me because I don't know anything else about it. Yep. But like it it it kind of tails on it's not just how it's perceived, it's also the actions that Mark does while with while in you know the invincible costume.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Yeah, and I think here's so here's my take. We have really three costumes here, right? We have the one he makes himself, and I've been in a daredevil hole re recently, and in uh Man Without Fear, I think it's actually a ref reference to Man Without Fear, Daredevil. Uh look that costume up if you like black suit, Man Without Fear, Daredevil, and just tell me if you agree. Like just yeah, and um then he has the one that the the first one that Art makes in that has like the yellow and the orange uh thing that he didn't like that much. Then uh he goes to his iconic like yellow suit. My take on this is actually, and I'm probably projecting because I've been reading so much Daredevil lately. You he has the homemade suit and goes to the original design of the Daredevil suit, which the Daredevil suit was yellow and red, I want to say, and it looks weird in retrospect. Then they change him to the red suit that we all know and love of Daredevil. So I think that is kind of like showing, you know, suits evolve over time, and they do play more with that later in um in later issues. But his design, I think, is to show Mark. This is a deconstruction story, but Mark is gonna be a hero. That that's my take on what the suit means.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Honestly, I liked his homemade costume better than uh monstrosity.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Wait, do you mean the the one the final suit or the or yellow-orange one?

SPEAKER_00 25:42

The yellow-orange one. Yeah, no, I'm not sure. Like the first one that was a throwaway. Um, that was so much worse than you know the bandana over the face uh costume that Mark came up with himself.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

And I think that one might be a reference to a character called Grifter, which I'm fuzzy on these details. There was a comic series called Wild Storm or Wildcats, and I think Grifter was in that, but that's owned by DC now. Like it was originally an image comic, but it got sold to um DC. Uh so yeah, that is that that is kind of my take on all of that. So going with what I said, uh, do you do you think do does that change any of your thoughts? Does it make you like it any more or less?

SPEAKER_00 26:30

I don't think so. I feel like you don't develop that thought until you get further into the story. You know what I mean? Like it's not it's not as apparent in issue one. Like, I I usually try to look extra hard for you know the underlying meaning and reasons why it was built that way, but like the the issue one was still just a little too dry, and I think you get to really rely on your the fact that you you've read the entire run, you know, you have like background, it's kind of like the same with like the nostalgia goggles like aspect of it, where you're just you know what's going to happen. So even if you're trying to not reference what's going to happen, because we're doing issue one, it's kind of inevitable, and that's uh that's apparent to how we you know we kind of dial kept jumping back and forth to like the show when we were talking about The Walking Dead and everything like that. I had background, so I also didn't feel like um doing a prediction for for that one.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Okay, yeah. No, that that's totally fine. Like um, so what would be your uh new reader-friendly rating and your recommendation on this one?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

So as far as new reader-friendly, it is definitely a one. Not only is it the beginning of the storyline, there's no tie-ins, but also it's very uh more feeling like the campy times of the 90s than it is like there's not there's not there's not really gore, there's not really anything like edgy or it's just like a classic superhero beginning story.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

And I I would agree. I'd say this is new reader friendly as a one. Uh, I do know where this story goes, and it gets a lot more intense, and there is gonna be some stuff that is pretty messed up, so I will say that. This is one aimed at adults. As far as quality, what do you give it?

SPEAKER_00 28:35

So for for an issue one, uh the quality is not that great. You know, like I like the art. The art is what I expected. It has that very sharp, um, very clean style for for superhero comics. There's not a lot of shading. Um, it's very solid, bright colors. Um it definitely translated well to like this is a superhero story, more akin to like old Superman's. So I feel like they really brought that into it. Um would I recommend it just off of the first issue? I don't think I would. Knowing that, you know, i i it's not bad, but it just it's it just wasn't good in my in my opinion. Like I would say, like if you w it like I with no knowledge that it was gonna be popular and you know, very well received, it's just it was just very flat to me.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

That's fair. Um so uh as far as new reader friendly for me, I'm gonna also give this a one. Uh you're gonna be absolutely good to go into this. Uh even normally I don't say things like new uh deconstruction uh is very good to start, but this is as much of a deconstruction as it is just a standard superhero story. Uh did you give a numerical rating on quality?

SPEAKER_00 30:06

I did not. I think I would give it probably like a three or a three and a half. Okay. Like, and the art is carrying a lot of that. Like, I like the art, the art's great. Um, it was just that the story fell it fell flat to me, and it was just fair. Not something that I would be like, oh my god, I can't wait to know what happens next. Gotcha. I I'm actually gonna give this one a four for quality.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Uh now I think a lot of what you said is valid, where it's kind of underwhelming in a way. Like that's the best, that's the criticism I can give. Uh, I've read this all before. I am a fan of the show. My recommendation is actually to watch the show, and if you like the show, go back and read this. The reason being is I think the show handles a lot of this stuff better. The the book just has more content, that's basically where it comes down to. Uh, just some stuff didn't age well, and you can kind of tell this is like still warming up in the writing, but I still think when you look at this, Mark's introduced really well. The general concept of the world is introduced decently well, but in the same token, it's not. Like, we don't know much about Omni Man, we don't know really what this world is. Uh, but I but what I could pick apart, you know, from the thematic elements of this being a deconstruction story and commentary on the meta system on on like metacomics writing, uh that makes me like this a little bit more, but that's me. Uh, and as far as there is one actually thing I'm gonna disagree with you on. Uh and this uh this might not be a popular opinion. I don't think this art is bad. I just don't like it. Uh the reason being is it's just kind of it doesn't impress me, but on the same token, it's easy to follow. Uh Ryan Stegman takes over art duties on this one eventually. And no disrespect to Corey Walker. I just I don't know. The there's certain faces in here that are just feel off-putting to me. That's the best way I could put this. Um, like, and it's like specifically uh Omni Man and uh the friend, what's his name? I am trying to find it. Uh William, the friend William. Uh his face, I'm just gonna share my screen and show you why I don't love this. It's this, it's this one right here. It just looks weird to me.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

No, I agree with that. That face is it's not a bad face, just a bad face, it's just stylistically weird.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

And like the mustache is just kind of weird on Omni Man. Where the the art is a lot better in uh the later or in the TV show.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

There's a lot of errant lines too that I didn't think really needed to be there. Yeah, that like on the on the face, and there's just like those constant like like a lot of times there's just like random, like, I don't know if they were made to be I I honestly don't know what they're trying to but like like there's like a lot of times there's like uh just a really dark line across the bridge of his nose or uh on on Mark's nose, or like coming down from his eye, and I was like, it looks like almost like it was supposed to be some kind of eyelinered on makeup.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

It might be some weird commentary on some of the bad art from the 90s. Uh I I don't know. I'm just spitballing here, but look up some like early 90s art. There's way too many, like way too many thick inky lines that are all over people. I I don't get why they were doing that. It's but I'm I'm not an art expert. We would actually need a true art expert to really tell us on that one. But yeah, so um Mike doesn't necessarily recommend this one. I do, I recommend the show. I recommend if you like the show, read this. Uh and I I think we're probably gonna be like the only podcast on the internet who's not like saying Invincible is the greatest thing ever.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Yeah, I will say that I will continue to read on because just because I know it has the hype, and you know, typically books or shows that get that kind of hype, at least it is to some extent warranted, at least at least to some percentage. Like like it's it's I'm not gonna I don't I know I'm not gonna read forward and I'm gonna be like, wow, this was a waste of my time and awful, but it's just like I'm I'm not recommending it from an issue one perspective if I bought it like the day of and had no knowledge of what was to come.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Yep. So two points. Uh anyone should drop a book for any reason that they're not feeling. Point two, that is separate and not built off of point one. Comics are sterilized storytelling, and sometimes you need more than issue one to really decide if you like a thing. Uh, but you also have to decide, you know, is is it worth your not only your money, but your time? Like there could just be better stories than this than what you want to read.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Yeah, no. And this one, this one also read pretty fast. So um I think I was able to read through the first issue in 10 minutes. Yeah, yeah, it's uh that's about average.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

And uh, do you have any recommendations for other stuff that might give you the same vibe that you just like better uh or anything?

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Um the one the one that comes to mind that like is kind of where you know, based on your descriptions to where this story's probably going, that I probably should have used instead of Watchmen was Black Hammer. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Go read Black Hammer. Black Hammer is really good, and I hope there's an adaptation to that someday.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

I would love it. It's it was such a good story. And it's still ongoing too. I have to pick back up on the parts I haven't read yet, but I don't I don't even know if I definitely read a good amount.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

I don't even know if it's collected yet. I'm I'm I'm not sure. Um uh I would I would definitely piggyback uh Black Hammer. Uh if you want uh just a good superhero story, uh I kind of want to recommend um Miss Marvel uh from uh from Marvel Comics uh by G. Willow Wilson. Uh I've recommended that a few times. Uh you know, it it's it's a it's very much just high school superhero stuff, which I think you're gonna get that. It's much more PG than this. Not that this is like particularly egregious, it does get a lot darker. Uh but I think Miss Marvel is just like good standard superhero storytelling. Almost any Superman run is gonna get you there, but those those are like the two that I would go for the similar vibe. As far as uh Robert Kirkman goes, I would recommend going back two episodes ago and listening to our uh zombie special where we talked about uh Walking Dead and Revival. Both of those top-notch. Alright, Mike, do you have any closing thoughts for this one?

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Um, this is a good I think this one is a good story to, you know, maybe issue one is not the place to give up on something.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Usually it's not, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

It's yeah. Because uh although I didn't come out of out of the gate, you know, champing at the bit for more, I feel like this is something that could still grow. And it's kind of, you know, give even if give things a try, yep. At least I know I will continue to give invincible a try uh with the knowledge of you know it's come always highly, highly recommended and is, you know, b beloved by by many. Um but you know, some things won't be your cup of tea, and there's no shame in going this isn't for me, and you know, dropping dropping the run or which I did recently with something you rec you you gave to me, but it also came with the recommendation. You're like if you aren't jiving with it by like the end of the first trade paperback Oh um Wick of the Divine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Yeah, that that one I think is just rooted in 2000 or like mid-2010s uh uh commentary where like I think if you weren't there for it, it might not jive with you super much. Uh I'm trying to find um where is like there's a point where I think you should read up to in this to decide when, and I'm trying not to use the spoiler. Uh I cannot find I'll tell you off the air. Um, but there's um a major plot point that happens that is why people like this story, and it's not quite right away, but it's quicker than I thought it was. It might be like issue five or six or something. I have one other question for you before we drop. So you said you probably wouldn't buy this monthly if like you were just going to the comic store, right? Right. Um, but like now that it's collected, you'd probably like what what's a reasonable amount of time for you to give up on a story? Like the first trade, do you think is that usually good?

SPEAKER_00 39:21

I think the first trade is a good litmus test of whether or not you're gonna like a comic run. It kind of ties in with how I also judge books, like like standard print books. I'll give a book a hundred pages to work to like win me over. And that'll be the that'll be my like give up point if it's like a particularly long book and I'm going and I'm at the hundred page mark and I just I just hate it. Uh at that point I'll give I'll I'll I'll just let it go. I like that litmus test.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

That's that's that's a decent way to go. Like it's rare I DNF books, it's just not something I do do very often. I do it, it's just very rare anymore. Uh as far as comics go, I don't know what makes me drop a comic anymore. Wanting to read something else is usually the bigger reason. Not wanting to spend the money, not wanting to spend the time. Like, there's three books I'm buying monthly that I'm actually considering dropping right now, and it's hard to explain why I don't want to re buy them. But they're also available on the DC app.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

So so that's the question then. Is it you're not going to read them at all anymore, or are you just going to pick them up as digital only?

SPEAKER_02 40:29

It's digital only is kind of the thing there. And like this is a really weird time we live in where digital's actually good compared to when I had to stop buying comics for monetary reasons. Now uh I have the money for it. I'm not rich or anything, but you know, I paid off enough debt where I can pretty much buy whatever comics I want, and I'm buying less than ever right now. It's equal parts of I'm more financially responsible. And uh, you know, I could just go read those couple books on the DC app. And it's like I want to add more books, but those things are available, so it's it's it's tough to say. So I don't I don't know what would make me drop a book after one issue. Because I usually don't think one issue is enough to judge a book if you're gonna drop it. But sometimes issue one is enough to make me go, hell yeah, I want to read all of this. There was a recent book that came out, Batwoman, written by Greg Rucca, where um it was a fine first issue. It didn't pull me in, but I really like Batwoman, and I really like Greg Rucca, and I like Greg Rucca writing Batwoman, so I'm gonna give it a few more. Whereas I've been reading all the absolute books, and I have three of them I'm considering just dropping. Green The Absolute Flash, Absolute Superman, and Absolute Green Lantern, they're fine comic books, but I don't think I need to read them every week or every month.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

I I I like my opinion is that I don't consider that dropping the comic, though. You know what I mean? If you're gonna read it digitally digitally eventually, it's not really it's not really dropping it, it's just I don't need to own the physical thing. Yeah, I'm also on the standpoint of I played TCGs for a long time. I do not want another hobby that had that requires me to have lots of you know generic white boxes full of things. Yep. And that stands for anything unless unless I buy a single issue like uh like I found those facsimile issues of the of the Black Mirror cover. Yep. That's good wall art. Yeah, exactly. I bought that for the sake of wall art. Um, but I will not buy single issues just to read because I can't I can't stomach another generic white box in my house. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

And I don't have the room for it. Like I buy single issues and I intend to sell them off. Like that's to subsidize other books. Um, like I'm not looking to play the investment game, I don't really care. But like there's single issues I've had forever that I don't want to get rid of, but like my most important single issue is just gone. So I don't know. But like I I I'm selling off all my DCKO issues. I'm gonna sell off the Kryptonite Spectrum, and I love the heck out of that. Uh the absolute books are you know, they're worth a couple bucks. Uh, not much, the ones that I have anyway, but I can probably get back at least cover price for what I paid for them. So I might sell them off. I'm probably gonna hold on to Absolute Martian Manhunter, because that one is something you kind of need physically. And but yeah, it's and like I'm really enjoying Daredevil right now, so I'm gonna buy that monthly. That's three three months behind, so I just don't want to wait. The Marvel Red Band stuff. Uh do you know what that is by the by any chance? I do not. It's uh the more they're like the the more R rated comics, so like they're more violent and they don't bleep out the swearing. Uh so those don't actually hit the app.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

So those I'm actually okay with buying singles, but and like I buy if they're not available digitally, then I think that makes more sense. Like I I like I personally would buy it in. collected form.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Yeah, that that's probably what I'm gonna end up doing, but Marvel trades are hard to find sometimes. But like I I think I might just be soon dropping down to like buying Batman because like that's almost a forever book for me. Like I just kind of want to buy all of Batman or like read all of Batman in my lifetime, but on the same token I just don't want the stuff either. And like I'm can I'm about this teeny bit close to dropping Spider-Man again just because of stupid crossovers.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Hmm I I haven't read any of those but uh oh buddy maybe keep it that way well I have I have a things I want to read list that's probably like a mile and a half long at this point. And it's I got so much to cover before I get to you know other runs that you know I might not be as interested in. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

I am eventually going to like pitch a run for something you said you weren't interested in and have you read it because uh he said on another call like he wasn't super interested in Daredevil. And I think if you got like the right Daredevil uh like you might want to just be like hooking that one up to your veins to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

And that's that's what uh that's what I'm here for. I'm not it's not a hard set foot in you know foot in the foot like putting my foot down that I don't want to read it. It's more of a it's almost like a challenge to you. I was like this isn't something that that really interests me from like a what I know about it standpoint but like if you you could impress me I'll I'll read well I mean I've basically read anything you've referred to me.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

I usually don't miss too hard. So what I'll say about Daredevil as an overall concept Daredevil is the average of Batman in Nightwing and his one of his biggest villains is a bigger psychopath than the Joker. Alright so you already piqued my interest a little bit more because I know like virtually nothing about Daredevil besides maybe there was a there was a movie back in like the old like when comic books started first getting movies right like yeah it was uh you know and you know I can't think of that uh movie what's with Ben Affleck where uh the the the joke from um Bojack where uh they the Diane's family asked him you ever see any Boston based celebrities uh about saw Ben Affleck eating buying grapes one day he's graping it up with a dead devil himself um but yeah no that that movie's awful the show on Netflix and now Disney Plus is amazing so if you need some like watching after uh Walking Dead for however much you have of that left uh Invincible and Daredevil definitely with worth checking both of them out yeah I I I I definitely plan to watch both yeah like on honestly the Daredevil show is a good way to get into Daredevil and I think the Invincible TV show is a better way to get into the comics than the actual comic. Alright so you got any final closing thoughts here since we rambled on for like another 20 minutes. My only closing thought on Invincible is I will keep reading it. Okay. Are you gonna like so are you gonna read that like now or just like put that off to the side and read other things or like what what's your strategy here? Like what what what are you reading right now is what I want to know.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

What I've been working on is our monthly read of Captain Marvel the Omni that we that we found. Nice how far in are you? I'm about a quarter of the way through it. Okay. It's starting to pick up it definitely uh like to what you said it's it's picking up and I'm enjoying it more than like the first like ten issues.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

The first arc in that it's not bad comics at all. It's just I think it's the least good that that series is with the exception of they they print tie-in material in there because Kelly Pseudoconic wrote it and it ties into events that are not really covered in that material who knows maybe it'll like uh be a sexual awakening for event comics for you I don't know I mean I'm definitely enjoying it it's also one of the like I I have not read a lot of Marvel yet I'm still I'm still enjoying it. Gotcha maybe we'll do an episode on that one at some point. I guess my closing thoughts are as always be good to each other out there. Take care of yourself uh work on your mental health uh next week so I'm just trying to remember uh because we're definitely not batch recording a bunch of stuff that I have to slice up next one uh we're actually I think it's gonna be a Katia episode we are going to have we're gonna be actually talking about the new alias series series that is a red band show or a red band comic um uh it's alias Jessica Jones um that's the you'll have to hunt those down physically I can loan you the original series if I see you next time but okay um that's the original alias is really good and the new series is shaping up to be pretty good too so all right everybody well I think we are done for the night I've been your host Vic and I've been Mike take care of yourselves out there see you next time yep be safe have a good one well guys thank you so much for listening if you'd like to get a hold of me through email I'm at comicbooksbeyond at gmail.com and I'm at comic books beyond on blue sky instagram tick tock and we're also on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

Some of the podcasts are going to go there but we're also working on some extra content for YouTube as well. I'd like to give a thank you to the crew of the Talking Comic Books podcast Brad and Lee of Comic Book Couples Counseling Alex Jaffey Jeremy Whitley Bran McNulty Jimmy Gasparo and the crew of Comic Book Yeti and John Klein III of Shadowflame with magic most importantly I'd like to thank all of our listeners and supporters be good to each other out there and take care of your people. We'll see you next time