Episode 52 - Chainsaw Man by Tatsuki Fujimoto

Chainsaw Man is written by Tatsuki Fujimoto and follows a young boy and his Chainsaw Dog.

Hosted by Vic, Kadiah and Garnett, I used to use my middle name, Adam. 

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Comic Books Beyond would like to thank:  The Crew of the Talking Comics Podcast, Brandon McNulty, Lisa and Brad from Comic Book Couples Counseling, Alex Jaffe, Jeremy Whitley, Jimmy Gaspero and John Klein III of Shadow and Flame with Magik Podcast. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hey everybody, welcome to Comic Books Beyond. I'm your host, Vic, and I'm here with two other hosts today. First host is Garnet, our mental health expert. Hello. And second host is my wife Katia, our physical health expert.

SPEAKER_04 0:15

Hey everyone!

SPEAKER_01 0:16

And we're here to talk about the blood and brains behind Chainsaw Man. So, guys, is this your uh this isn't anyone's first time reading Chainsaw Man, is it? Nope, I read it before. Cool, cool.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

No, I watched the anime first and then read the manga.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yeah, like we so we're probably only gonna be talking about plot points from about the first couple chapters. Let's call it the first volume, but I have a feeling we'll probably all reference something after that. We specifically read the first volume of this one, then but I know we've all read at least the first part of it, and I think I've read it all. Like I've I've read the ending, but the ending is I read that in really weird time spaces, so I definitely need to reread the end. Uh, how about you guys? How far in have you both read?

SPEAKER_04 1:02

I read the first arc, and I think at least half to the full second arc.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

I didn't finish it, but I know what the ending is because I'm terrible and looked up spoilers.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

It's fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

I don't spoil the anime. Um, and I'm pretty sure the resie thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah. The reszi thing?

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Is that not how you say it? How do you say it? Reasy?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Oh, Rezy Arc. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Reezy Arc. Yep. Yeah. I'm also the resident person who can't talk.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

So yeah, and and for the record, what do you do for a living again?

SPEAKER_02 1:31

I talk to people. Doesn't mean I could pronounce things. Talking and pronunciation are two different things.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Oh, I can't pronounce anything either.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

It's really easy to talk to people when there's a set script that you have to stick to. And as long as they don't go out of that script, it's a great interaction.

unknown 1:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

So that's only everything. So that's why I made an outline for the show. And you know, it makes things a lot easier. Um, so did we like this? I feel like we probably did because we have all seen the anime and all read a lot of it multiple times, but I don't want to speak for everything.

SPEAKER_04 2:07

I like it so much I have a backpack.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Oh, yeah, you should describe that story of the backpack.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Um, we walked into local uh comic slash video game store, and I saw it immediately up on the back wall, and I said, Oh my gosh, Puchita. And Vic said, Okay, well, I guess we're not leaving the store with it, so you can have it.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yep. And that's how I got an easy present once.

unknown 2:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

All right, so Garnet, what did you think of Chainsaw Man when you first read it or first saw it?

SPEAKER_02 2:39

I thought it was interesting, pretty gruesome and gory, but I like the whole concept of the different type of devils, and it's just interesting. It's one of those shows that I couldn't like thoroughly predict the plot points as well as many others. And if I can't really predict where something's going, then I like it.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

How about you, Katia? What did you think?

SPEAKER_04 2:56

Um, so upon second read, I'm surprised I got past the first part. I don't know if it's worse because like I have more attachment to Denji as a character now, but the first couple episodes are rough, they're so sad.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah, this first volume was way darker than I remembered. Like, it's a bummer. So yeah, we d uh how about I give my plot recap? So we'll just if you guys want to check out now, if you if somehow you haven't seen Chainsaw Man or heard the base level plot lines of it, uh anybody listening, if you want to check out now, go right ahead. But I'm gonna very lightly spoil about the first seven to ten chapters, and uh that I think is gonna give us a good kickoff to talk about the rest. Chainsaw Man follows a young man named Denji who has inherited his father's debts and hunts devils to pay them off. In this world, devils are real. Denji is poor. He's poor poor. He dreams of one day eating jam on his bread. It's a foreign concept to him that he can't even process. He hangs out with his pig dog with the chainsaw faced, whose name is Pochita. Well, on an assignment to kill some devils, he's betrayed, and he's saved by Pochita, who now lives in his heart by a contract. This gives him the power of the chainsaw devil. He then becomes employed by Makima and the public safety deck devils, or uh devil hunters. She's the only person that's ever been nice to him, and therefore he assesses a new goal. Instead of jam on bread, he wants to touch a boob. The rest of part one follows his exploits as a devil hunter, working for Makima, and his growing friendship with his mentor, in quotes Aki, and his friend, in quotes, power, who is a fiend who and a fiend is a person possessed by the blood devil. Eventually, Dinji gets to touch a boob, and then he realizes maybe he's not happy. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

Yep, that's pretty fair.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

Yep, accurate.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yep. So um who's the what what uh what did we feel about the characters in here? Who who's got a favorite character, and we can't say Pachita?

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Power. Power's my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Yeah, power's great. So the first um the first arc of hers, she is set up to be so goddamn annoying, and she is, but she's great.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

She loves cats, yeah. She's that's an A plus in my book. That her only attachment to cat, I could really relate to that. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

I do enjoy the dichotomy of power having meowie and Denji having Puchita.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah, yeah. So Denji, Denji has a dog.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

They get along like cats and dogs.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

They they do get so Denji gets Denji is referred to as a dog in this all the time. And um, his boss Makima literally treats him like a dog and makes him bark for him or for her. And power is basically a cat who's a manipulative little narcissist who hates humans. So basically she's a cat. And I have a cat bark uh knocking at my door at the moment. So if you guys hear background noise, sorry, can't do anything about it. They're little garbage gremlins.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Uh so what is uh who's your favorite character?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Um, my favorite character overall is uh I don't know. It's it's tough to say because I like so many of the different characters. Um I I think the first art the first part of this book has like some of the most perfect characters I've ever read. Like the villains are really good, and I just don't want to spoil too much of the villain side, but we're probably gonna talk about some of it eventually. Um Denji is very relatable because like I've been that low on life in Depressed, where you know, just some jam on toast sounds pretty good, and not having any real goals. Like, that's a spot that I've been in many, many times in my life. Uh, I think power is the most entertaining. I'll I'll say she's absolutely the most entertaining.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

Uh I'm surprised you don't. I mean, you didn't mention Aki. I would have thought that Aki would be your favorite.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

He's or Makamo. He's not actually my favorite. I like Aki, but um, I don't know. I just I like Denji and Power a lot better. Uh character that we don't really get to spend time with in this arc, Himino. I really relate to her a lot.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

Yeah. Um I did know you like her.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah, she she's pretty great. Like uh she she's just a person who lives life basically, I don't want to say unhinged, but um she just has She's here for a good time, she's not alone. She is here for a good time, and she is really just doesn't give a shit about stupid arbitrary rules that I don't like either. So that that's kind of what I like about her. Aki is just has too much of a stick up his ass to be as likable as the other characters. He's he's great, don't get me wrong. I named an Elden Ring character off after him, but uh he's just not as enjoyable as the other main characters. Uh Makama is a great character, but she's horrible. Like this read through, spoilers, Makama is a pretty big villain. Oh, it's so telegraph, it's not telegraphed at all. But uh this read through, holy shit, she was bad. Uh, did did anyone like just because this is like multiple reads, did anyone just pick up how much worse she is because of you know some of the stuff she's eventually going to do?

SPEAKER_04 8:28

A little bit. Um I I knew her eyes were weird the first time, but now seeing that they're like almost like literal hypnotism things, that's I I I made that connection.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Freaky.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yep. Uh so Garnet, you had some uh mental health stuff you wanted to talk about specifically with what you noticed between the dynamic between uh denji and power. Was that right?

SPEAKER_02 8:53

No, so Denji or Ben Denji and Makima, that's awful. Or just kind of like a generalized um thing that I just noticed in the beginning. So like minor spoilers for anybody, but um just the fact that they kept saying, Oh, he's like a dog, he just sees obedient, he does whatever he's told. A lot of it reminded me of like a trauma response, like cult fawning. So basically, if you're abused enough, you become like basically a people pleaser, but on steroids. Like you agree to do everything, you don't set any boundaries, you're just very submissive and afraid to like stand up for yourself. I mean, the guy swallows a cigarette for money, like just you know what I mean, follows whatever Malchima wants him to do. I think that's trauma response because he was went through the death of his dad, a violent death, and then he's poor and has no money and nothing. So that's just my interpretation of Denji.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

And what were you that that's so uh is there any anything more you could say about like the fawning? Like uh is that is that like a good representation of it or I think it's a decent one.

unknown 10:00

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

And Gotti, do you have anything to input on that one?

SPEAKER_04 10:03

Um no, I think it's interesting. It um it's very interesting if you think of the fight, flight, freeze. It's kind of an interesting way to um freeze a little bit where you just let things happen instead of doing one or the other.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

It's easier to submit than to do anything else. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

I get that. My fight, flight, or freeze is usually either freeze or snap fight. It's it's one of those two things.

SPEAKER_04 10:33

Um, I'm a freeze. Uh it's freeze 110%.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

It's mostly freeze, but like I'll snap fight if I have to. I the best way I can say it. Like um So do do you have any stuff? You said you wanted to talk about some things with uh Makima.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

I think Makima's a narcissist, but that's just sweet because she's just so manipulative, but she's also a major villain and other can I give an R spoiler? Please, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

It I'll cut it out if it's that bad.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Okay, she's a devil. So it makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah, you're you're we're basically going to be spoiling plot points that I think are relevant to season one of the anime. Um that's that's fine. Just like uh we've all read this before, and just doing the like the refresher is fine. I'm just I might put in extra disclaimer spoilers for maybe up to including everything but the Reezy movie. Oh yeah, so no, so do we want to talk about devils and fiends and humans in this? Cause I have questions.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

Yeah. Well, I think the devils are such an interesting concept and that their power comes from how much they're feared. So, like, the bat devil is this big scary thing that eats and sucks on blood. Um, and I forget what example they gave, but like the pillow devil isn't gonna be that scary because most people aren't afraid of pillows. But um I just like that they're stronger the more fear they have.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

So the chainsaw devil is one of the scariest of all the devils. And I absolutely won't spoil this, but they talk a lot more about the uh Chainsaw Devil powers in like part two, like later on. And there's the scene that um whatchamacallit, that Makimo was uh explaining kind of how devils work in like one of our only real expedition exposition dumps of the show or of the um book. It's like around episode eight or nine, uh uh chapter seven or eight, maybe, um, where she was explaining what devils are, and you know, you can make contracts with them, and then there's fiends that set up shops in people's bodies that are kind of like late versions of devils, but like I didn't think it was super well explained the difference between a fiend and a devil. Like the devil is the pure demon, is kind of what I'm getting. And the and the fiend is like a hybrid almost.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Um, in terms of Buffy, I was I was hoping you would see a vampire.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

I was really hoping you would say in terms of Buffy, a fiend is a vampire, where there is a demon inhabiting the body of a human. You can make contracts with devils, kind of like I don't think we saw Aki's devil power, but how he has the wolf guy.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

I read a little bit further, and he showed and that shows up like right after volume one.

SPEAKER_04 13:28

Yeah. And you can make a contract. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

What? Oh, sorry, go on. Oh no, you're good.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Go ahead, Garnet. What were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Oh no, um, they show him make a contract with that future devil thing, too.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yep. So eventually Aki gets to make a contract with the future devil, and the future devil is fun because he can see the future, and the only reason he accepts to see Aki's future is because he sees how Aki's gonna die, and he wants to see how freaking awesome it is in first person or in in person.

SPEAKER_04 14:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Um, so what do we think about some of the relationship dynamics in here besides uh Denji ver Denji and Makima? That um Denji is very subservient to Makima, and she's clearly manipulative. She's the manipulation devil, and that's not the exact word she is, but we'll wait. We we won't spoil exactly which devil she is. Uh anybody have any favorite pairings there?

SPEAKER_04 14:27

I do enjoy the Aki and Denji pairing of when two guys get together and they have a problem, they just kick the shit out of each other and then they're fine.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Pretty accurate, yeah. I mean, we my friends and I beat the shit out of each other all the time. Like when we were in our 15s, not now that we're in our 30s, not so much anyway.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

I mean, I was a last I I want to half the time, and I'm sure they want to the other half the time, but we're all like, you know, we're like 35 to 40. We shouldn't do this.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

I mean, if you do, it's a fight club now. So Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

I I don't want to get into a fight club with my friends. Not not not not this week. Like maybe if we got gloves, we could do that.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Shirt, no shoes.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Uh so oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

I like Dungeon Powers dynamic, the vest. Like they seem like they actually over time are become actual like genuine friends and it's cool.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

But very sibling vibes, sibling coated.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

They are basically I I definitely read that that they were there was never really romantic tension between the two, and there was the whole uh uh so power wanted Denji to solve a problem for her and save her kitten. And if she did, Denji got to touch her boob. And um, that was where Denji realized this is not exactly great, and just their whole dynamic is very sibling-coded, where he realized his goal was just kind of hollow and empty, and I don't think he it matters who the boobs belong to.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

It's almost like boobs aren't just boobs.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Uh I don't know. It's that's uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Not just window dressing, huh?

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah, no, and and not in this case, like there is nothing hot or sexual about that scene, it is just very uncomfortable. And the scene that's after that, where he talks to Makama about it, that is even more uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_04 16:35

Uh, where she basically says I don't think I remember that one, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Oh, so that that's where um she says, you know, when it comes to naughty stuff, it really is about the person and not the window dressing, like you guys just said. So if you kill the gun devil for me, you can do whatever you want to me.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah. What's also messed up too is the fact he's 17, like he's a minor.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah, like I wasn't sure if his age was specified, but I thought it was 17. Like I thought I just knew that, but they didn't really say that. And like, uh, I'm I'm glad you said that, like, he he was a teenager, not just for the um uh power dynamic, we'll say the air of uh the the dynamic of power imbalance between him and Makima. It's really hard to talk about this one because we have a character named Power in this. Um, but this is kind of like a a workplace comedy in a way, like that yeah, this story, it's a workplace comedy. Like, is that a fair assessment to say that that's what it's what its genre is?

SPEAKER_02 17:37

I can agree with that. A workplace comedy until it becomes tragic. It's a it's a work there was doubt.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's it's the office. Instead of Jim and Pam, you have uh power and denji and a bunch of murder.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

Again, it's a comedy in the way that Buffy's a comedy. Buffy's a comedy, but some bad shit happens.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Yeah, those are the best comedies. But yeah, like the it's interesting that you know, I think there's one thing we can uh I kind of want to spoil one minor thing about part two, because there's because part two is kind of the inverse of this when you look at it. So this one takes place in a workplace setting, and part two takes place in a school setting. So instead of going from you know, school to work, this goes from work to school, which is a general inverse of like how stories like this work.

SPEAKER_04 18:29

Yeah, yeah. Uh that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

All right. So anybody have any other stuff they wanted to mention on any of the specifics of the story or the characters?

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Kenobi? Is that how you say her name?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Kobe Kobe.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Yeah, the one who's like super anxious.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yep. So what why do you connect with that character?

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Oh, you know, anxiety. But also because I like the fact that like we don't know what her devil is, and you don't really know what her whole mystery.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

What was that? There's some mystery, yes, a mystery.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

I mean, my assumption, my guess is that her dev devil is um a luck devil or an anxiety devil and it feeds off her or something. Because it just seems like she never gets killed when everyone else does, like something, something like weirder, yeah. But it's just interesting.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

I have no theories, so that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

So with her, I remember she comes back eventually. Like, I think we get more of her story than what's presented in like the first couple chapters. Um, but I just don't remember if they ever resolve her plot line. And I don't think so. Yeah, it's like I I remember the ending of this, and I think again, it's one of those things that everyone is overhating the ending of this series, but uh like it just wasn't as good as it could be, but that's true of everything. So that's that that's just something that bothers the crap out of me.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

I almost feel like if you have a really good series, no matter what it is, the ending usually never meets expectations. Someone's always gonna be unhappy with it.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Also, sorry if you hear the screaming. That's my cat.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

I don't hear any screaming. We're I well the microphone might pick it up. We we'll find out.

SPEAKER_04 20:10

It's jiggling that doorknob. Blame the internet for everybody being too hard on shows. Now that we can all get together and like micro figure out problems, it like just seems like it ruins it for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Yeah, there's no mystery left. I mean, there is, but nope. It's just not as good as it could be.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Chat help.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Right. So do we think this is a good story on its own? Just the just this first call it the first season of the anime or like first couple chapters, however we want to call it. Do we think just this early story arc is just an overall good story?

SPEAKER_04 20:46

It's almost hard for the first chapter, like the first volume, because it ends in the middle of the bat story. It doesn't actually cap off that story. Um, but I think if you cap off that story with it, I think it's a good overall. It's a good teaser for what comes more. It's definitely not a self-contained story. Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah, so I read a little past, so like we agreed to just talk about like really the first volume of this. And then when we did, I was kind of like, I wish we just sucked it up and said, you know, we're gonna go to the full of the first anime or whatever. Um, but I did finish that story and it's like five more chapters, which it's kind of a weird thing that they ended that first volume with like that cliffhanger. Did anyone else just find that strange?

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Like like it should have been a little bit. Like I feel like it should have been collected differently or like make the first volume like 15 chapters instead of seven. But like I it it seems like the collections of these are almost arbitrary. Uh and like this was originally serial serialized in a magazine. Like, I think it should have just been should have collected like the first 15 instead of whatever. Like the you know, this was all. kind of arbitrarily slap together. Like that's my big criticism of just the presentation of the first volume of this. Like this is a thing where if I if you were interested in reading this, and I do think this is absolutely something people should read, um I would say just go to the digital version online. It's pretty cheap subscription, or just read it for free under the free trial and cancel if you want. But it would take you like, I don't know, a week to read it all if you just really put time into it. Or if you just want to read part one, because I think all of part one is a pretty self-contained story. You can probably do that in a couple days.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Or if you just want to like read what's in the anime that should take you I don't know an afternoon or not. So thematically, what do you think this story is about, guys?

SPEAKER_02 22:46

How sometimes we only want something till we have it. How sometimes dreams don't fulfill us the way we think that it will.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Is that a thing that often comes up in therapy that you can talk about?

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Sometimes I think sometimes it's that concept of like if I get this one thing, if I do this one thing, my whole life will be better, my whole life will be fixed, where that type of thing has to come from inside, not externally. Because if you keep searching outside yourself for like some sense of fulfillment, whatever that is, that stuff could be taken away, right? It has a lot to do with identity and purpose and the way that we like see ourselves in the world. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah yeah definitely and I mean um one thing a therapist talked to me about was uh when I said one thing about when I found out my dad died um that I didn't like get to finally have a conversation with him and spoilers trying to not trauma jump it wouldn't have been a good conversation. It sound she said you know it sounded like you wanted closure and closure makes for a very good story. But that's just not how life works. Closure sometimes just isn't really real and we're often prescribing you know a um a story lesson to life which I think there's times we can do that but uh there's times where we have to have realistic expectations that life aren't stories and it's comes down to it's the meaning we ascribe to things, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:13

It's the belief that we subs up subscribe to it or whatever. You know what I mean? Sometimes it's not always a clean cut knit sometimes it's not a clean clear cut version of closure whatever that is like oh this happened and now I'm totally going to be okay and things everything's gonna make sense. A lot of times it's more complicated than that. And there's ways to find closure on your own too but it is hard.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 24:36

Uh being a human is just complicated.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Is this storage that's just about being a human I've heard a few different people say that one of the major themes of the story is just asking what is a person. Uh I think there was an eyatchwolf video about that and um I think I listened to another podcast that I can't remember the name of where they were just talking about like people identity themes in um Chainsaw Man. And I this could just be me spitballing here but one criticism I have of the story is just like what's ill-defined as a fiend and um what's ill-defined as whatever Denji is. Because in this world you have the devils which are clearly defined humans which are clearly defined fiends which are like kind of like the vampire hybrids metaphor we're going with but Makima says Denji isn't a fiend he just has part of a devil in him which he really spend your time or I at least spent a lot of time this entire series of me reading it, rereading it, watching it, asking what exactly is Denji because I don't think there's any time in the entire manga that they like fully uh express what denji is. Is that something that ever crossed anybody's mind?

SPEAKER_04 25:51

Yeah now you mention it as now but I'm also not someone who I hardly ever try to categorize things because I'm gonna put it in the wrong category or I'm gonna just make a wrong assumption and you know what assumptions happen make an ass out of you and me and so I I'm fine with the gray.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

I it's never been a hard yes I need something black and white so it doesn't really bother me that Denji might be a little bit of both I thought it was main character syndrome too almost like he is special because that's what the writer says or is he uh go sorry to to cut you off go go on there if if you wanted to say something else. Oh that that's it like he's just kind of like special because that's what the author decided.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

So there's a trope called you know the chosen one trope where just your main character is special and not really ever explained to it. I wonder if maybe this is a takedown of that trope because when you think about it Makama is the one who tells him you're not a fiend you're not a devil you're something else there's no precedent do you think maybe she was lying I could see that yeah we can't take her at her word. No everything she does is a complete manipulation and and a lie or of some kind. So do we want to go into ratings? Sure. Cool we have two ratings on this show. We have our quality rating and we have our new reader friendly scale rating. Quality is just however you want to define this quality you're allowed to define it. Me personally I'm going to say this is totally worth your time to read uh if you wanted to give a rating out of uh five I'm honestly giving this about a five in all honesty. This is one of my favorite things that I've read uh at least the first volume or the first part of this I really like the second part um and it's not necessarily that I didn't like the ending uh I just think there's certain things that weren't answered for me and it got a little too action heavy uh towards the end instead of dealing with more thematic and introspective elements that I really liked. So if I had to give this a a numerical rating this is a five out of five for me. And as far as my new reader friendly availability for it I think this is a pretty new reader friendly story. Like I think things are uh pretty easy to follow uh I didn't have trouble with the art. I think the characters are you know a lot more well defined art wise. One of my my criticisms of uh Fujimoto's other story we covered on the show Firepunch was a lot of the female characters specifically kind of look the same and it just at some point the characters just were a little hard to tell apart at some point throughout the story. And there's a lot more edgelordy stuff in there. And there's some like edgy have hard conversation stuff in here but I think he does a uh a better job handling those things. So as far as new reader friendly I think this is super new reader friendly you're not gonna have any trouble jumping into it following it. As far as you know rating and content, like there's some heavy stuff in here but uh there's like nothing that I think would be you know over the top on or anything. How about you guys uh Cotty do you want to go first?

SPEAKER_04 29:05

Sure. I'll give my new foreader friendly skill first. I think it is a one out of five as in one is completely new reader friendly. I hadn't really read much manga or really watched anime before I started with Chainsaw Man. Like there were some things here and there um because all my friends love it. So I've been exposed but I feel like Chainsaw Man was the first thing I kind of picked up on my own that people didn't tell me I should read um and I really enjoyed it. And it was super easy to get into throw a cute animal animal in there and you got me. But my quality five out of five I love it it's it's great. I have not finished it I will get there but of everything I've read so far, especially the first arc it's five out of five not to sound redundant but the same I really like Chainsaw man.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

I like the concept of it I like the art I like how different it is I like how you never know who they're going to kill off. Swear you're not wrong. Yeah and I think it attached to people in in this it's just it's very um Game of Thrones esque where you're like oh boy I really um oh wait I like this oh wait so I I just like um the fact that you never know what's going to happen. Like just that style is interesting and it's easy to get into and I feel like it's easy to comprehend. It's not like a super difficult metaphorical thing.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

Except for the Santa Claus stuff that was hard to comprehend. Oh I forgot about that. Maybe I blocked that out.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Yeah so that is territory that we're definitely not covering today and it's not because it's not in the first um part of it. It's just it's so goddamn weird and confusing and hard to follow that I have read it like two or three times and I've had um I've had a few friends like ask me what the fuck is going on in the Santa Claus shit. And I've lit and I've said I I don't understand it. I I truly cannot follow some of those plot points. That's a little bit of a tease for if you get to like volume seven, eight nine of that maybe it's somewhere around there. Yeah because like probably the first five six volumes of this adapt the sh the first are adapted into the first season of the show. Then the Reezy arc is the movie which I think that's like volume it's the immediate volume after then after that it gets into the Santa Claus stuff. And also some of the stuff in that is um um that's where like the content gets really bad and I think a few of those chapters are only available on like the adults only version of Shonen Jump's website like where you can't use the app uh so since you said um how do I want to put this uh what you said about uh you don't know who's gonna kill be killed off in this one is it okay if I just read a little uh bit of a page from a later chapter that I think will be non-spoilery go on so uh I just want to tease the tease the listeners for part two of this uh so we open with um a school and these people have brought a new class mascot and it's a headless chicken named Bucky and he's excited to befriend you all and the class says or the teacher of the class says class three months from now you kids are going to kill and eat Bucky I want you to see how precious life is forgot about that yep I think I blocked that out too oh that was so much fun it's it's a headless chicken how can you even kill him you'd be surprised I don't want to know that I know you're marrying a farmer so uh I'm sure he's farmer he's an he once a farmer always a farmer you think you can take the guy out of the farm but you can't take the farm out of the guy I mean you probably can take a pitchfork to a bird if you really had to um if they were real the birds yeah bird birds aren't real that this this show is very uh we we believe in all conspiracy theories including that birds are not real and if you guys don't realize this is a joke please get the fuck off all right so do we uh have anything else we want to say about Chainsaw Man volume one part one anime one uh I know um like like uh Katia said this was her real first anime like this is the first anime manga you've really watched right like more than a like spot I mean episodes there was some other thing like I watched Sailor Moon as a kid um but not with any like I was never a super fan or anything I was uh so as our resident manga anime expert how much other anime manga have you seen oh boy how much time do we have a lot I've been into it since I was like a little kid since Sailor Moon a lot when I was a teenager in college and then as I got older there was that thing the magical streaming where you could just get access to all this stuff where back in my day we used to have to spend $10 a manga and wait up late at night to watch our anime so a lot I've seen a lot. So how specifically for you how does this compare to other uh manga may anime manga that you've seen I'd say it's pretty high up there.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Um I'd rank it along the lines of my other favorite old school 90s I mean this this isn't obviously a 90s thing but um you Haka show like the whole you don't know who you're gonna fight you don't know who's gonna die the the kind of wit that's in it in a way vaguely reminds me of that but that was one of my favorites back then. But I rate it pretty high because it is interesting. Yeah definitely you should watch it definitely whoever's not watching watch it.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Yeah if you wanted to watch what would do you think would be a better way for people to get into this series would do you think jump right into the manga or watch the anime first like anime anime anime for sure I like the manga but the anime is just that good.

SPEAKER_04 35:18

Yeah the the color makes it pop.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

The the I so I have not seen a ton of anime or read a ton of manga. I do find that I really like manga and I like some anime um anime is a huge commitment that's that's hard to get through a lot of it but I think it might be one of the best looking TV shows I've ever seen in my life. The scenes in there are so bloody and violent and they apparently add some filler content. Like I didn't do like I thought about like trying to go through the manga and the anime at the same time and like try to parse out like what's filler what's not and the changes they made but that is a ton of work and I just don't have that kind of time. But the the anime is amazing. So I think I would just say like you know if you're if you're hesitant on this at all I would jump jump right into the to the anime and then uh when you're done with the anime you can just read the manga. It reads super quick like I read about 15 chapters today with just laxadaisically and I and again I've read it all before the only time I fell off of it was I don't remember why I fell off of it in part two but it was like two three months where I didn't read it. Like I think I just forgot to and then I let my I think we might have gotten busy with life oh and yeah so about like six seven months ago when we were really busy with life yeah now now I remember why why I fell off of that my bad. Yeah um sorry um but yeah I I fell off of it and then like I needed to like try to catch up and I just I I just kind of kept reading it and tried to parse things together and I don't know if I missed something towards the end or if it was just rushed or there was too many action chapters or what that that's like my only like real I had trouble with the end at all. All right guys well this was fun hanging out anybody have any closing thoughts they want to add in positive messages.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

But cheetah's the best and I wish that he was my heart.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Fair I was gonna say he's really cute.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

He is really cute. All right everybody well thank you for hanging out with us we are gonna go to closing thoughts so stick around for credits and everything else and we shall see you next week.

unknown 37:27

Right?

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Take care. Well guys thank you so much for listening if you'd like to get a hold of me through email I'm at comicbooksbeyond at gmail.com and I'm at comic books beyond on blue sky instagram tick tock and we're also on YouTube. Some of the podcasts are gonna go there but we're also working on some extra content for YouTube as well. I'd like to give a thank you to the crew of the Talking Comic Books podcast, Brad and Lisa of Comic Book Couples Counseling, Alex Jaffey, Jeremy Whitley, Bran McNulty, Jimmy Gispero and the crew of Comic Book Yeti, and John Klein III of Shadowflame with Magic. Most importantly I'd like to thank all of our listeners and supporters and be good taking each other out there and take care of your people. We'll see you next time