Episode 55 - Hellblazer: Dangerous Habits by Garth Ennis

Happy Pride Month!  This week we cover Hellblazer Dangerous Habits with Full Spoilers, cringeworthy dark humor and pretentious insight.

Another Comic Podcast, Escape the Mojoverse is running a Fund Raiser for Transgender Law Center.  Check it out below, and check out their podcast! If they raise a $1,000.00 for this great cause, they'll also do an episode on Wicked and the Divine!

https://www.instagram.com/p/DZBQKJdkU8N/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Kickstarter for the OZ by David Pepose

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/theozcomic/the-oz-3

Hosted by Vic and Beef!

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Comic Books Beyond would like to thank:  The Crew of the Talking Comics Podcast, Brandon McNulty, Lisa and Brad from Comic Book Couples Counseling, Alex Jaffe, Jeremy Whitley, Jimmy Gaspero and John Klein III of Shadow and Flame with Magik Podcast. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey Beef, is there anything you'd sell your soul for like three different times?

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Uh yeah, three different Latina goth women.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Hey everybody, Editing Vic here. Before we get too much further into the episode, which is hilarious and full of cringeworthy jokes and pretentious insight, we have a few uh news items to go over. First of all, I completely forgot to do disclaimers in this episode. So content warning for dark humor, discussions of cancer, substance use, depression, death, and suicide. As always, no podcast is worth your mental health. And just because I use dark humor to process feelings, that doesn't mean anyone else needs to listen. Uh it is also Pride Month, and while John Constantine is canonically bisexual, uh, unfortunately that doesn't come up in this story, so we actually dropped the ball on this one, and I just want to own up to it right here. Uh, more fun stuff. Uh, I'd really like to use this podcast to do some form of charity work or just put some general goodwill into the world world if we can. Uh, since we don't really have a huge reach right now, uh, another show, Escape the Mojo Verse, is running a fundraiser for Transgender Law Center. Uh, from their Instagram post, Transgender Law Center is the largest national transled organization advocating for self-determination for all people. Their goal is to raise $1,000. Uh, if they meet that goal, they're gonna do a bonus episode on the Wicked and the Divine by Karen Gillian and Jamie McKelvey. So not only is this a great cause, Wicked and the Divine is one of my absolute favorite books, and I'd really like to hear that episode. Uh so link to the Instagram post with the fundraiser is gonna be in the show notes. Uh, I'd also like to give a quick shout-out to uh David Peppos, who uh has been providing me review copies, and we're definitely gonna do some more with that. Uh, he's got a Kickstarter going for his new book, The OZ. This is basically Mad Max Meets Um Wizard of Oz. I read the preview pages and I really liked it, so I immediately backed it. Uh, I'm gonna put the show notes or the link to that in the show notes as well. I think it's already funded, uh, but definitely something worth checking out, especially because uh we really like supporting creator-owned projects on this show. Uh so that's uh something I'm really looking forward to as well. Hopefully we can get a good review of that going when it's all ready. Uh, if you're a listener of the show and you want to submit questions, feedback, or suggestions, or you have a book you'd like us to read, please send an email. And same, if you're a creator and you have something you'd like us to review, or you had something you'd like to promote, maybe do an interview, definitely reach out. We'd love to hear from you. All right, everybody. Hope you're doing well out there. Let's jump into the episode. Uh, so everybody, today we are on the Comic Books Beyond podcast. I'm Vic, and I'm here with my friend Big Daddy Beef. Welcome to the show. We are talking about uh Hellblazer issues 41 through 46, uh, which is affectionately titled Dangerous Habits. This was written by Garth Ennis, pencils by Will Sampson, inks by Mark Pennington, colorists, colors by Tom Zwico, and letters by Gaspar Saldiano. So, everybody, we are talking full spoilers today, and uh Beef, this is your idea. So, uh, why do you want to pick this one?

SPEAKER_01 3:09

So I am a big fan of just Constantine and a lot of different DC media, and I have not read any of his stories in the comic book, so I just wanted to go with one and kind of just run with it. Um and I know this particular story is in a lot of people's top tens when it comes to this character. Uh so I was like, you know what? It's not that many issues, let's just go for it.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Uh I've always been wanting to read the uh Garth Ennis stuff. Um I'm not the biggest Garth Ennis fan. Like, I don't hate him the same way I hate like Scott Lobdal or anything. Uh I just sometimes his work gets a little too edgy for me. Like you've seen most of the boys, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah. Uh all up until the last season.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yeah. The uh the comic is about a hundred times more graphic and fucked up. And uh I know you have a hamster story, which maybe someday I'll let you tell. There's a hamster in there, and uh no, we're never talking about I don't know if I could ever talk about that scene on this show ever.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

It's not even my story, it's the story of a friend that I just love telling it.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

I I know you you really like telling this hamster story, and we're just gonna leave that one in the lure for now. Alright. Uh, do you have a plot recap for this? Because I have a little bit of a plot recap. Uh if you wanted to do one though, you could you could go right ahead.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Uh so I'll just kind of go over my plot rehab, and if you if I if there's anything I missed, you can go ahead and fill that in. Uh but overall with this story, uh Constantine kind of wakes up, feels sicker differently than usual, uh, sees something in some badma that he really shouldn't be seeing, wonders what type of evil could be doing it to him, and it's just, you know, this regular old cancer. This uh running a mill, oopsie poopsie, it wasn't a demon, it's just cancer. Uh basically from there, he's kind of coming to grips with his own mortality in a very boring, very normal way uh compared to the rest of his life that he lived. He didn't think it would be so mundane. Um he tries to find some different ways of beating it. Then he comes to kind of just accepting it and kind of not making the most of his time with the very little time he has left, makes a new friend, tries to mend some broken relationships from his past, and then he goes, you know what? I'm John Constantine. Goes out, makes a deal with three demons. Plot-wise, that went, that works, and uh he's pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

That was pretty well put together. Uh I just want to clarify like one to two couple things.

unknown 6:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Uh there's a lot I missed in there, but I'm just like, yeah, overall, that's high level, you pretty much nailed it. So he he had a deal with three different demons. He sold his soul through in to three different demons, uh and they all came to collect at the same time. And realizing there's a fight, and one demon realizing, oh, I'm gonna lose this fight, I'm gonna lose hard, instead of Constantine dying, like he slits his wrist in front of these demons to really speed up the process, calling their bluff, which is a badass move. We are very anti-hurting yourself on this show. I want to be very clear on that one.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Uh, it's like But when faced with three different uh devils, and that's the only way to hasten the clock, you know. Yeah, if if your results may vary.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Uh please don't kill yourself for the love of God. Um, but you know, he uh one demons were like, you know what? I'm gonna heal you. You're your time's gonna come. I'm not ready to fight this fight. But this is three dates to the prom, like pushed to the nth degree, and I really love that issue.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Uh uh, I believe that was 45, and yeah, no, uh, that is most definitely um my favorite issues of this run. Um, and that's one of my favorite panels of all the artwork, and we can get to artwork soon, but uh just basically the hands-on surgery of removing the cancer from his body is basically the most painful way the devil was just ripping it out of him. I'm like, this is pretty dark. I mean, it's it's a fairly graphic uh run. Um this is like the DC dark, like this is uh yeah, this was vertigo line.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Like this was uh hate to use the this phrase, but this is like peak vertigo era. Um Vertigo was like the it's it's around again. It actually just started back up. Um Vertigo was like the they wanted to tell like darker, more adult stories that may or may not like follow the same story as DC sometimes. It was a little more wishy-washy, some I think just weren't. Uh, this is technically in the same universe as like the rest of the DC stuff. Um and this is like top of the game. Like, this is back when you had uh Alan Moore had finished his run on Swamp Thing at the time. Um, another popular comics writer who will remain nameless wrote another very popular fantasy urban series, which we'll not be covering because of legal shit. Um what else was really popular back then? I mean, constant our uh Hellblazer Constantine was hugely popular. It it already ran for 40 issues at this time. We're picking this up right at Garth Ennis. Uh Garth Ennis is one of the world's most popular comic book writers, and I'll I'll I'll say he's pretty good. He's uh just you know, like I said before, some of his stuff does cross my my my my lines of just a little too edgy, cynical for me.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

I don't think this run was too edgy. Like it was, I mean it's not lighthearted, it's fairly dark. Oh no, but I think for the tone, especially for the time period, pretty like a just being 1991. Yep. Uh it felt run on pace, like it's still holds up quite well as a story. It's just fairly dark, and if you're feeling pretty bummed out, not the story I would recommend.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, no, I I I would say this is a good one if you're just in the mood for something dark and you want to get to know Constantine a little bit. Or I'm sorry, Constantine. That is his that's the actual way you pronounce it apparently. Um I I only know that from like there was one adaptation of something that again will remain nameless that apparently it had it right. And he apparently says it rhymes with fine in some other in like maybe the issue right after this, I think he or right before he says this.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Tomato, tomato, listen, we're from the area where everyone says you got a couple two tree, you know? Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, we'd uh school systems didn't fail us, they certainly let us down though.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Oh yeah, hardcore. Yeah. Uh we we shouldn't talk about what we were what Kyle and I were taught about chickens.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Man, I don't know. Like, yeah. Okay, just if it was just him, I'd be like, no, that makes sense. But in fact, it was you too.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

I'm like we went to neighboring school districts and uh Yeah, and uh a friend of ours grew up in uh right outside Philadelphia. We grew up in Northeast PA. In my school district, we were taught that chickens fertilize eggs uh after they've been laid. You know, how fish work.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

My friend I was gonna say, if you're thinking about fish, I'm like, that's accurate. No, you're talking chickens and nope, nope.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

They they chickens reproduce like how most mammals do.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Or, you know, m- I was gonna say that that's not what they mean when they say the the roosters come, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

From the roosts.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

No, no, that they they they pre reproduce sexually. Uh so that that's what our school taught us. And my friend in Philadelphia, our friend from Philadelphia, learned the same thing. So the public education system in the 90s and early 2000s, not that great. I don't know how either of us are successful.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Well, to be fair, um to follow-up on the last podcast, by the time of this recording, I believe it was Chainsaw Man, and he did cover that birds aren't real. So they don't reproduce sexually, they reproduce in a factory. At the good old drone zone.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Oh my god. Someday I'm gonna just release that clip of you and Garnet's husband fighting.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

I wish I had started from the very beginning because that boy was a classic. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

This was just beef gaslighting Garnet's husband.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

If someone can get rage beta so easily, it's definitely Garnet's soon-to-be husband.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not married just yet, but uh, we just told him that uh it was he went on with this bird's not real tirade. He thought he was real, you know, being real. And I'll play the audio at some point. I'll find it. I'll find out.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

A throwaway joke that I have to double down so hard for. Because I'm like, no, this is where I'm going tonight.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yep. Then then those drinks he made us, those were not uh let's relax drinks. Those were we I want to put you two down drinks.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

I'm pretty sure we use most of a bottle of bourbon just on those like three-man hands. Yeah, it was pretty bad.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

All right, so uh rough. Speaking of bourbon, uh we are let's let's get back to Constantine, because that plays into uh this story quite a bit. Quite a bit. So this uh so this story is called, you know, dangerous habits. Uh we think this story is I mean I mean it's it's pretty uh pretty much about John's bad lifestyle gives him cancer, and um it's kind of a nihilistic view on that, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Well, if I had to put and I mentioned this uh message in earlier, and I had a whole theme for this entire storyline. Okay, go ahead. And the entire theme that every issue has led up was I can just define as oh no, the consequences of my own actions. Yep. The storyline. That's a hundred percent this entire storyline. He got throat cancer. Well, I've been sorry uh smoking 30 cigarettes a day since I was 17. Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Oh boy, I guess I can't be a total nihilist and not take any part of my health seriously. And oh crap, I've got cancer. That that sucks. Um his friend died of liver cancer.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Oh no, I was an alcoholic.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

I'm like, all right, right on. Okay. So I think we're both on that issue 45 is our favorite issue. Yeah, for sure. My second favorite issue is honestly the visiting his friend uh to get drunk with him, and you know, just where they're where he goes, Hey, I've got cancer. Can you cure my cancer? You're a magician, I'm a magician, I can't cure your cancer, but you know, just like that going back and forth. I I thought that was a fun issue.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

And yeah, uh Brendan Finn, I believe that was in uh 42. Yeah, it goes over to Ireland 42 or 43. It was 42. Okay. Uh he goes over to Ireland. He goes, hey, let's try to resolve this with magic. And he's like, uh, you know what? Uh well, have I showed you my church? And it's like, where are we going? Where are we going with this? Brings around, he's like, hey, look at my wine collection. Then he's like, Alright, here's a little holy fountain, and uh, I'm and they use magic, and he's just like, I'm gonna make stout.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

I mean, it's a decent decent use of uh holy water, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

It's I mean, as long as it's purified, pretty great. I mean, uh I can't see it on the camera right now, but I got a whole brewer kit right behind me, and I'm sure you know a stout with that would be mighty fine.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Probably, yeah. Uh I I really loved the end of that issue. So can we can we talk about that issue uh real quick? Yeah, go for it. That one specifically is like we said, he's going to visit his friend Um who's also a magician. They're looking to basically save each other's lives. Um his friend card swept past my house so fast that even through all the soundproofing, I definitely picked it up.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

I heard that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah, sorry. All right. Um, usually they don't go this fast this time of night. Um but his friend shows him his uh beer collection, his wine collection, and he shows him that he uh can turn uh holy water into beer, and he was traded this power by the devil to, you know, make the best alcohol that he could get. Um now we we both enjoy a you know a fine glass of beer once in a while. Um me not so much more these days. I'm actually doing a little bit of a sober break. I hopefully can go on with it for a while. Um he uh he he makes this holy water into beer, and uh he says, you know, the uh the devil gave him this power, and uh the the caveat was the devil has to collect his soul five minutes before midnight. So while he's pissed drunk, devil shows up, Constantine says, Well, you got five minutes, uh, how about we have a beer? And devil drinks the beer, and more or less wiggy-woosy magic spell breaks, and Constantine goes, Yeah, and now by the way, it's holy water, and then he cracks a bottle of wine over his face, and uh he uh he outlives the spell where he dies and possibly goes to heaven, I guess. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Uh reverts the beer back to just its uh whole holy water form, throats the devil inside, uh takes his one of the wine bottles, breaks it open, slash his throat, and just pretty badass. And to be fair, like the when the devil showed up, it was pretty awesome. He's just done up, just comes in as a nice, like well-dressed gentleman. It looks just like Lucifer, um from the entity Lucifer, uh just coming in as a really well-dressed gentleman and just very polite. And it's ironic that I believe the uh Brendan had actually sold the solve to get in the world's best wine collection, which is what they have. I mean, they go at his house and he has this amazing wine collection. They don't drink any of the wine. Oh they drink everything but like I mean they're in Ireland. Well, not even that. I think they were drinking um some sort of whiskey or something prior to that, and it was just basically he wanted his collection, but he never it's this uh this greed, this avarice of like, I have the greatest collection, don't touch it.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Yeah, you now that I'm thinking about that you say that, you think that's like a metaphor for or like uh Garth is saying like uh people are collecting comic books and not actually reading them or collecting anything and not just using it.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Oh, that would be so on the nose meta. Like, I don't know, maybe it was just uh gunning the right uh orange lantern comic. I don't know. Like he's like, I'm really good at writing an Avarice.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

I think he's only like, I don't know, twenty, twenty some years early for that one, or twenty-five years early for that one, but you know, maybe someday.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Listen, I still have a collection of magic to gathering cards I collect. I don't really use them, but I'm not gonna get rid of them or do anything with them. I'm just gonna keep collecting.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

It crossed my mind to sell mine because we're having our bathroom redone, and turns out that's a lot of money.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Sure is.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Yeah, no, we we're we're okay on it. It's just like we we put aside money for stuff like this, because uh unlike you, uh uh a baby never came out of my out of me, so you know you you you you birthed a baby, so my my brother. I did and wife did, but yeah. Yeah, you you you you assisted. I imagine you were the cheerleader there for for your wife. She she did all the heavy lifting.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

But you were I slept in a very uncomfortable chair in that hospital room thing. I think I'm I'm equally a hero. Yeah, God loves it. Hashtag rage bait.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Yeah, you you you definitely were right there. You didn't uh yeah, it's it's it's almost as bad as getting gutted open like a fish. I I understand. Um but you know, we we don't have kids, so just we're a little little little bit uh a little bit of okay. Like if we had kids, uh I think I'd be like saying, like, I don't know, you guys want to go work the mines? I can I don't know if they if we still have mines, but I would like send my kids down to the house.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

I'm sure I mean we have them. Are they active?

SPEAKER_00 19:40

No, but have mines if you're there there was definitely one not too far from my house. Like I I thought about going to acquire a child to send it to the mines just to see if I can get you know something, like at least some coal to heat the house.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

When I leave work at five and I have to go get my son from daycare and I refer to him as my freeloading son. Doesn't have a job yet.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Yeah, that's how I refer to my cats. So okay. Um so do you have any fun discussion questions for the rest of content? Yeah, Constantine.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

So I really don't have any sort of questions, but I do want to say, like, along with like this story, uh he is such a fun character. Oh yeah. And how he spent his like remaining days until he came up with his plan ultimately, he wasted a lot of time. Yeah. Like they didn't there was a couple pages, he's just sitting in a cafe, he was sitting there for two hours, like like the guy running the place got mad. He's like, the only thing he did was order that tea. And it's probably cold now. And it's like, you're just wasting your time. He does make a new friend, uh, Matt, that he meets in the hospital in the cancer ward. Yep, I love uh storyline. That that little sub thought was. I really like Matt as a character. That's where they introduce him. He gets to be the mirror of that's gonna be Constantine's future, he's gonna be laid up, he's not gonna be doing well. Uh, but it if everyone that he knows in his life, Matt is someone that has not chased away. Uh it's someone he can bond with, doesn't need to go into this whole explanation of like, got cancer, and you know, have to go through those awkward conversations. It's someone that a hundred percent understands what he's going through and doesn't even need to be spoken.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

They can share a cigarette right there in a hospital because it's 1991 and not America, sure.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Uh yeah, so like issues 43 and 44, I think, were not a ton happened with those, except for it there was Constantine was or Constantine was moping around and just like not really like you said, he wasn't formulating his plan. He was just kind of like, I guess kind of on the road to acceptance. And uh I I kind of liked the scene where he goes to the cancer. And he was like, Hey, I just want to see what it's like here.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

I've got a did he say he's had like an aunt or something that had cancer, or he did tell like the head the head of the hospital that he knew that, you know, uh my aunt, you know, I'm gonna look to a place to put her, but he was kind of just shopping for himself. Yeah, and and and he just wanted to see what basically what he's going to do. Like this is at a point where he's given up on himself. Yeah, and every character you meet in the story, he's at a different kind of like step of this like this grieving process where like he's wasting a lot of time, he's in this denial. He accepts it when he goes to the cancer ward and makes his friend, he does accept it. He runs into several other characters and eventually he does go see his sister who he's kind of been estranged from. He goes and he the story leads us to believe he's been there for several days at least, hasn't really done anything, just kind of just crash in there. And it's the first time that he can actually open up and say, I'm not gonna be around long. It's that's his like first step of being able to say, you know, I'm dying. Like the in like admitting it to others now. Uh Chaz, his the taxi driver friend, who they appear apparently have a really bad relationship because Constantine as a con man really screwed him over and the guy had to go in with like some loan shark. Um they have a huge fight, Constantine leaves abruptly, uh, leaves him uh some money in a letter of explanation. It's like, hey, I can't even say this in person, so this is a letter to explain everything. Um kind of like resolve and like loose ends in this world. Like he's definitely accepted his own mortality at that point, and then you know, next issue is like, you know what? No, I'm not going out like a bitch. If I have to risk all people in the earth to survive, that's what I'm gonna do. Because he's John Constantine, yeah, and he's selfish. And I'm like, right back to character, love him.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yep. I I really so I'm not gonna say that issues like 43 and 44 were a barrel of laughs and a barrel of fun, they were enjoyable, they were just they were hard to read because every for everything you said, and you sum that up beautifully, I'm not gonna reiterate. Um, but the one moment that I really liked from those issues, aside from well, there was a couple things I really liked. Maybe this is just the 2026 spin on it, but if you go to a cancer ward now to shop for your sister or whatever, and you say, Hey, I'm just looking for a place to put my whoever, I don't think a doctor would be like, Oh yeah, come on in, we'll hang out with all the cancer people, I'll show you all the cancer stuff, uh, we'll show you where the cancer beds are. Here's where we give the morphine to the cancer people. Uh, some of them are gonna get chemo. And um, you know, I I don't think we kind of just get that treatment these days.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Uh but yeah, I don't remember that uh episode of The Pit where the doctor is like, hey yo, yeah, put them with the fucking dying guys over there. Yeah, don't fuck them.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Oh god. I I still haven't watched it.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Are they never to smoke? Get them an ashtray, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

I I haven't watched it. It's a little different. I'm I'm gonna watch the Cody won't watch it with me because you know she lives it every day.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Um, I mean, side tangent. Uh I'm halfway through season two and I highly recommend it. I don't watch it while you're eating, that's one thing I'll tell you, but it's a very enjoyable show.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

The the other couple of things that I really liked from issue 43, like just his relationship with Matt was really, really good. Um and just like I I think you hit the nail on the head. It didn't really need any explanation. Like he just made a new best friend there. Um, I really liked what you were saying about kind of the stages of grief. Um I didn't I I picked up on that a little bit. Like I didn't say like, oh, this plot point is like anger, depression, bargaining. But kind of it's all there when you think about it. I don't know them all off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Um I would I that was something I just thought about now. I'm like, hmm, I really wish I had that put together prior.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yeah, I I really wish I like went deep on that. And I'll I'll make Garnet read it and she'll probably tell us better than we could.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

No, we can just Google it better. That's pretty much what Garnet does for a living. No, she's Google it sucks. She does nothing.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

She nag absolutely Garnet sucks. Katia complained to me today about uh something uh other friend told us whose name I won't say, um, not easily Google things and referenced her reference Garnet for not picking them up. Oh, and I know she's gonna listen to this, so uh hi. Oh good, Garnet sucks. That's canon. That's podcast can. I promise they don't actually hate each other. You're coming up for her wedding, so I've gone to weddings for people I hate before. Jesus. Uh it's an open bar and I like the food. So uh if if you want to understand why Beef wanted to read a story about Constantine.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Yeah, I see myself in a character that's super selfish and uh does really bad things. Like, oh boy. Again, oh no, the consequences of my own actions. I'm like, oh, that could have been me. Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Yeah. This one is like I I hope people do take away some of the good from this story, where you know, if you're a total piece of shit and if you're not um taking care of yourself, uh that's gonna catch up with you eventually, and you're not going to be able to magic your way out of it. Um uh but sorry, I there was like one more thing I wanted to say uh specifically about like it 43 or 44. Those two issues really blended together for me.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

They did. Um it was a nice progression of him as a character as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah, it was like I said, you they were the most human issues of the series, I think.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

I think anyone listening definitely knows someone who has gone through cancer. That is just a truth of man at this point.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Um and maybe it was someone extremely close, maybe it was you personally, maybe it was just someone you know of uh that you felt some sort of connection to. And the closer you are to it, you can definitely see different aspects while reading this and kind of see yourself in them or see Constantine as that loved one. Uh things they were going through. And maybe if you didn't know what was going through the mind, if they didn't let you know. But this story, you can almost connect with that in a way. Um where he definitely just didn't want to be bothered. He most of this like run, he is wasting his time with the very little time he has left. He is not making the most of it. Only when he truly accepted it did he try to make some amends. And it wasn't a lot of them, according to the story. Like he's pushed a lot of people away from him. Yeah, it's uh there are very few people from his past that care about him, and I think Kit is like the only one that doesn't hate him uh when she sees him, and also Brendan, but Brendan and him were in like the same boat, uh as far as like magic users that are uh suffering the consequences of their own actions.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

And uh with the uh with his sister, the the last moment that I really liked from those two episodes or issues, um the the sister's daughter, so I guess his niece, um he couldn't even say goodbye to her, and like I get it, man.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Like that's um he doesn't want to put that on that child. Yeah, he's done so much bad things to so many people. He is a con man at heart. He's used magic just to increase his cons, essentially. That's who he is. Um but but to someone truly innocent, someone he actually truly loves, he doesn't want to put that on them. Yeah, and that's an admirable trait in a bad character, in a very flawed character.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Yeah, Constantine's a bad dude. Bad dudes can still do good things. Like he he is a pretty big piece of shit, let's be honest. He's entertaining, like he's not the kind of guy I think either of us would be friends with, especially now. Like, we're okay, fifteen years ago, yeah, probably, but it would be just like as soon as that dude left the bar, you know, me and him would just go, yeah, he is not gonna make it to 30.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

I'd have a cigar with the guy and watch a football game in a pub.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

I probably wouldn't, but you know, I don't I don't smoke, so that that's probably why. Um not a snowy. Nah. Not my thing. But yeah, the um uh when you talked about you you mentioned, you know, ever anybody listening. It people everyone's lost somebody. It's uh it it's awful, and I've lost a few people to terminal illness, and it's it's a hard thing to watch, and it doesn't compare what they're going through. But one thing I've seen on more than one occasion is I don't want to say people give up, and I'm not trying to speak to everyone's experience here, but um sometimes when you're with that, you don't know what to do because you've this is a pretty nihilistic story, but and uh with uh when when you're in that scenario, you just don't like like what's the meaning of anything? Like you can't start some big project. What do you what how would you I I don't know how I would spend my time. I'm I'm not even gonna ask the question like what what would you do if you you knew you only had a set time left on Earth? And that was also 91, where cancer is a bit of a different diagnosis than it is now, it's still awful now, it's one of the worst things that exists.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

It's just there's just a little bit less of smooth ways of going down.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Yeah, like back thirty-five years ago now, goddammit, that's a long time. I was two when this came out.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

I was in school at some point, let's see, in 91, I was part of kindergarten.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Yeah, you would have been no, you would have been like four.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

No, wait, five.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Five, I was five. Yeah, you're like a year and a half older than me. Yeah, I'll be forty soon. Yeah, I'll be 38 like next month. Um but like you know, back then it was here's some chemo, here's some morphine, and drink all you want.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

That was the plan. Uh we give them some chemotherapy, it's gonna suck still. Here's some morphine, uh, here's a room full of dying people. Yeah, I'm sure it stinks.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Yeah. And uh so you know, I we jumped around in the issues a little bit, but you know, it it's funny that we're spending so much time talking about issues 43 and 44, because like they're the issues where the most nothing happens, but I think I have to say not a lot of nothing's really going on.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

It's just a lot of like just following them day to day. Like we're just and like I think that's where watching them accept things.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

The really important stuff in the story happens. Like issue 42 has the cool has his cool con. Issue five had 45 has his better con, but issue 43, 44, that's where the meat of the story really is. That's just him kind of hanging out, being a person with cancer.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

He tried his initial big cons. He tried to he met up with that one girl, uh, tried to get an arrangement, like to make a meeting, and she couldn't help him. Uh he goes to that club. Um, I forget the character's name. Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Uh I'm drawing a blank too, to be honest. You're fine.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

The smug little fellow. And oh, the snob, the snob. The snob. Yeah, the snob basically says. Also wouldn't help you. You're fucked. You're fucked. He's like, I can't help you. You're a shitty man. He's like, oh, yeah. Uh they talked about, you know, the green swamp thing. Uh I don't think they said it by name, but definitely talked about power of the green.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

They said the elemental. The elemental.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

And yeah. He's like, well, he's not gonna help me either. So he's realized how many and this is where he starts like realizing all the bridges he has burned. And it's like the simple cons are not gonna work. His simple ways of getting out of any situation is not the solution to this problem, ultimately. Uh, which is when he comes up with that big con. It's just it's beautiful. Um, and that gets into 45 and he's like, eh. I do like there's little details in 45, like once he actually fully accepts everything, of I'm gonna do this ritual, and when I do it a second time, I gotta clear out everything I just did so the other one doesn't pick up on it. It's like ah. It's almost like that cartoon trope of being in two different places, two different times, like going out with my wife, I gotta hang out with the boys. Yeah, I said it's three days to trunk. Yeah, and it's just uh everything's going really well until you know he forgets uh I think the Flint Sons did an episode, he's like, forgot to take off the water buffalo hat and meets up with his wife, you know. That's uh this is what happened when Devil shows up, collects the soul, he's like, hmm, kind of getting dark in here, huh? Darkness is spreading. You know, the uh the second of the fallen come. He's like, hmm, there's that dude that just like wears a lot of different faces. Like it was that was like the worst introduction.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

That one's like I don't know, man. I get what they were kind of trying to do. It's a shape shifter, which by the way, it didn't work for me.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

I will say that looked, and we I would love to get into some aspects of the art. Uh I do like how every panel he was a little bit different. Yep. Some were interesting, but I'm like, cool. But with the darkness, I'm like, it's just like a shadow on a candle, like it's darker, a little bit differently shaped, but cool. Yep. We both read this digitally, right? You didn't you don't have like paper. No, I read it digitally.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Gotcha, yeah. I I I found uh digital collection online and you read it on DC app. Yeah, I did. Yeah, I read it on a different app, um, but probably pretty similar. So uh I in my copy, it was like hard to tell them apart. Like I knew there was the shape shifter, there was the one dude who always looked like the same dude, and you said like the shadow demon like the candle guy. I I had trouble that could have just been uh my bad eyes and bad at interpreting older comic book art.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Um well the art itself is darker, it's just like it's it's n it they I thought the art in this was perfect because it was kind of like grim. Yeah. The artwork was grim, the color choice, grim. Yep. Uh one thing I want to say about the art that I noticed and I absolutely loved whenever Constantine was like truly oh shit, or something was going bad, it almost gave him I I'm gonna refer to it as like a lich face where like it's sort of like sunken, swollen, like skeletal in a way. Like that's like oh no, and it's just like kind of just goes across his face. Like it's not his normal like demeanor. And whenever he got the best of someone, they give him like a super cheeky, animated kind of drawn face.

SPEAKER_03 37:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Um they did a really good job with the art, and while everything's like really kind of depressing or slow, they did a really good job of like sh like making his expression kind of pop, whether like when it was like meh, it was just meh, like meh drawn. Uh but when he was super animated, super excited, like fuck you, I got the best of the devil, like bigger face, like big smile, like shitty dimples, you know. Uh the smugness on him when he got the best of him was great. Oh my god. And that's and that was like the most Constantine at that point, where like I said earlier, he risked the war between heaven and hell, and risked everyone on earth, all their souls, like everything could have just been done. For all the things he was trying to do with a couple people to protect them or like save them, like he really loves Matt, uh, his new friend, he was risking his life. His niece, he didn't want to like submit to the horrors. She would have been absolutely submitted to some horrors if everything went poorly with his plan. So it's like he says, you know, he's trying to protect these people, but then he does that like an issue later. I'm like, he's still a bad guy. It just happened to work and we liked it.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

She's because I'm pretty cocksure about himself. Like he he thinks this plan is gonna work off, and he he was right.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

But like like Ultimate Edgelord attitude, man. He's like, I'm gonna best the devil. That's who I am.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Yeah, yeah. He uh he's and it just happened to work for him. He's willing to go up against the devil because he thinks he's that good, and to up to this point, he's been that good. So, like I I don't want this to come off in the wrong way, but sometimes stories like this are about remembering who you are because he spent four issues thinking, well, I'm fucked. Then issue 45, he kind of remembers, oh yeah, I'm John Constantine. I just have to do what I do a lot better and be willing to go up against the literal devil plus two other devils who are, you know, all gonna pit him against each other.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

I'll be honest with I don't know, I I love him, and especially in like DC Dark Universe, he animated. Um and in this story, like that's how I fell in love with him originally. It's just I love that version of him. Uh and this story's very true to character, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Um it's kind of the template for his modern character, like pretty much all of uh later stuff is pulling from this this run.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

I think if he was if he didn't have an accent, I don't think I would care for this character. I think that's how I forgive this guy.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

So when you were reading this, how much of his voice sounded like Spike from Buffy to you? Because like there's stuff that if you dyed his hair blonder, it would just be Spike from Buffy. Because I know they kind of based Spike from the Buffy.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Yeah, James Master is like uh anytime there's a like cocksure, like English-sounded gentleman, that's the voice I go with if I have to read it. Yeah. Because that's growing up, that was the ideal cocksure, like limey kind of voice.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

I mean, we've got a couple others since then, but yeah, he he's who I hear in my head for Constantine, Constantine for for the most part. Uh like just like a little like an octave up pitch, like just a little higher voice is kind of how I got it, even schmarmier.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Well, a little bit of a uh raspy like smokers kind of smoker long going.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Yeah. Um, so I I mostly know Constantine from like other stuff that he's in. Like he was he showed up in Sandman for the first time, and I liked him there. Or um, no, he was in Swamp Thing originally, then he went into Sandman. Um and I read a little bit of the run that was before this. I think it was by Jamie Delano is the name. Uh I just I just didn't get through all of it. And it's so this one, this book is dated. Uh the Jamie Delano stuff is even more dated than that, where it's just not quite as it doesn't read quite as easy as this. Um, but I'm kind of interested in going back to that stuff. How are you interested in reading more after reading this?

SPEAKER_01 41:08

Uh honestly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Uh especially newer stuff, because I know they probably did they worked from here for this is this this book goes to issue 300, then it was relaunched, and then I think there's just it's called it might just be called Constantine after that point. Um New 52 dark stuff, the DC dark stuff in New 52 is really good. I read a lot of that. I I couldn't tell you what I didn't read and didn't read though.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Uh I think when it comes to like any comic character, especially one that's been running a long time, and we think of him more of a modern character in a way. I mean, he's not from like the 70s, you know, 60s, he's not Superman, not bad. Yeah, he's from like but if you want to go read their original appearances, those stories are gonna suck. Yeah. It's just a different time.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

It's just there's been romance all you want to do that holds up from like if you want to read anything before 1970, just do it for historical purposes.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

And that's what basically when I would do, like the first 40 episodes of Hellblazer, yep. Um just to get some background, because there was definitely some things that you would have to know from those earlier stories, a couple lines here and there. Probably like I how even if you weren't aware of those, you can get through this story a lot.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

So, like I guess we can talk about new reader friendliness of this. Um so I I was pretty good. Uh, I thought it was mostly fine. There was a couple things where I'm like, I've read this character before. I think if I didn't just have some exposure, just at least know who he was, I might not be able to get the impact of this. It's more contextual, like you're gonna be able to follow the story.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

Like I would say on your scale out of five, yeah, four. Oh, oh that's it's hard. If you have no background knowledge of this character and you hop into this, you're not shown, like he mentions like, oh man, it could have been a blood demon.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

You're like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Or I've got the blood demonstration. What the fuck? Yeah, it's uh I I would probably go go three on this one, but I I think three, four, but you're you're gonna be fine to pick this up. You're just gonna be lost for like two issues.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

And it's not just even if you don't know the character, and that's why I'm gonna give it a four. Uh, this story's depressing as hell. So if you're just introduced this character, and it's like, you know what you like with new stories, kids? Cancer. And it's like, oh no. This is really depressing. Like, this is not getting better for me. He's like, That's fair. That's fair. I'm gonna reconnect with my sister I'm estranged from. Hey, sis, I got the cancer. And it's like, oh shit, I'm not gonna see you again. Like, this story's kind of rough. Yeah, it's a rough story for that purpose. Like, if you're if you don't know anything about this. Character, some of the plots a little confusing. Yeah. And like, I'm like, I guess that's the devil walking in. And still, it's like everyone got cancer. I'm like, this is really fucking shitty. This isn't an American healthcare system either. And I'm like, so they're even better off the way they are. Jesus Christ. And they're a room full of morphine and dying dudes.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

Oh my god. Well, I think if they're in the episode title, they're a room full of morphine and dying dude.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Hell, even Matt was something like, I'm gonna die, I'm gonna shit and peek blood everywhere, and the nurse is gonna be slipping on it.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Right on. But the and and we'll get we'll talk about more 46. It was supposed to be this like, yeah, I won. My best friend's dying. Oh no, I forgot all about my best friend that I just wrecked me.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yeah. 46 wrecked me where exactly is like, oh yeah, I won. Oh shit. I just made a friend who's gonna die. Well, let's go check in on him. Matt didn't win. Hey Matt, how are you doing? The play.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Hey, you should bang that bra over there. You guys got a lot of sexual energy. I'm gonna shit and puke blood now.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Yep. Oh well, I gotta step out, Matt. Uh oh, Matt's dead. Well, I gotta run away from my problems and feelings and not uh didn't even tell the girl he was with it. She came back, she's like, oh, where'd he go?

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Oh my god, his friend's dead. Like it's it's really a bummer. Oh yeah. We're laughing about it, but it's something so tragic that you just gotta laugh at a lot of this story.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

This is something where like the absurd there's like a bit of absurdist dark nihilistic humor in this where Nietzsche would be like perfect story, you know. Oh, this cart that is German philosophy, like a lovely thing. Kafka, oh, this is this is magenta.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

It ends with rain to like fucking art. Yeah, okay. And another thing in 46, and I just want to bring up what, 44, he made amends with Chaz. And then they just run into him at a diner, and the guy's like, I thought you were fucking dead. He goes, Oh yeah. Sorry, I first of all I didn't even say hi to you. I'm here fucking enjoying my pastrami on rye that I it's now canon to me. That's what he's eating. Enjoying some tea.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

I was just about to ask, was that specified? Because I don't remember a nice one.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

No, it was not specified, but like in my heart, that's what he got.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Oh, uh side note, I picked up another uh corned beef because I I uh I I told you for uh Christina's birthday I made a um pastrami for her, and that's what she wanted. Um the uh ravenous heathens we all hang out with, they ate more of it than she got wanted. I I had like two sandwiches because I made like seven pounds of it. They're all playing Dead of Winter and they come back. She goes, Vic, is there more pastrami? Like, oh yeah, there's oh my god, how the hell did you all eat seven pounds of pastrami? There's four of you. No, there was like nine of them, I think. So I picked four. I'm gonna try to do that this weekend and surprise her with it.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Salted meats, man.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Let me get they go quick. They do. Oh, and like the local club stores around here, they just like have it pre-brine, so I just season it, throw it on the smoker. Oh, came out really good. Pretty great. I paid a kid at the deli like 40 bucks to lay seven pounds of it for me. I still yeah, also like I I said, like, hey, if I give you a couple bucks, will you cut this for me? And they're like, Yeah, sure. How much of it is it? And I dropped two of them and it's seven pounds. So I'm like, here you go. It took like half an hour.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Yeah, it's a lot. Honestly, they got the equipment for it. I don't like to do that at home. Like, you can pick up I I learned when I was with our friend Kylie that if you just go to a store and you get a big loaf of bread, you they'll just cut it for you there. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Yeah, you'd be surprised like what you can get from grocery stores uh or any anywhere if you just ask. Um it's it's a pretty good guidebook for life. Like, ask questions, it's it's pretty useful.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Uh if you I don't think you don't have a Lowe's foods in your area. I don't think there's it's sort of a chain down here. Yeah, no, we don't have that. Um they have a whole station where like you just bring us the fruit that we have in store, we'll cut it for you. That's what like do this, it's like I really like this watermelon, they'll cut it for you. I'm like, all right, that's you know, that's super convenient. And some garnets can definitely use or Gary, I don't know what her name is, she's useless. Jesus. Whatever. I wish I could share with the audience her quote unquote cutting a watermelon. Gallagher with his mallet can cut a watermelon better than her at any given time.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

I can probably put a link to it on Blue Sky or maybe in the show notes somewhere. I'll see if I can. It's bad. It's bad, guys. Yeah. I mean we we don't we don't pay her to cut watermelon. We we don't pay her at all, but we we we have her on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Nor would we. I told you the next thing I want expense. Okay. Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

I'm constantly uh yeah, no, no. It's yeah, it's we'll we'll figure that out. All right, we we gotta stop making fun of other co-hosts that aren't here. Um yeah, sorry. Yeah, you know, for the boys club episode today, but and Mike, you know, what a what a fine fellow he is, actually. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just got to hang out with him two weeks in a row. Oh, man, Bucky Duck. Yeah, I really like him. Oh, he's a good dude. He uh uh was down his house this weekend. Uh he this is how I know the economy's gone bad. He threw a barbecue this weekend. It was me, him, Sandy, and like two other people showed up, and he invited like 15 people. It's it's a bummer. Like yeah, and like eight people canceled like day of. He made really good ribs, and like they were almost as good as mine. And they were damn they were good. Like we'd have to have a rib off to really say.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

I still think about that tomahawk steak you made about two years ago.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

I want to make another tomahawk steak so bad. Like, maybe I'll do that Friday. Like, if they if they have it, I just might go down to Price Chopper Friday afternoon, pick it up, season it, throw it on the smoker and not tell Cadia, and then she'll be like, Oh my god, you have steak. Like, yeah, got steak. Of course I do. I don't think we have to do it.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

An audience, we want you to know. This story will let you know that. Enjoy your life. Do things that make you happy. Surround yourself by people that mean something to you. Uh don't con your friends.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Yeah, don't be a piece of shit to your friends. Don't and don't con anyone, actually. Just don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. Everyone needs a grift, alright? I mean everybody everyone has a grift here and there. If there's one thing we can all learn from uh Louie Duck from DuckTales, is everyone needs a grift, alright?

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Uh so I got like a couple closing questions if you don't want to. Um so I I kind of got like some of these are like you can tell I was like feeling extra pompous when I wrote these.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Oh, I had a feeling you said I'm like, can you share them? You're like, nah, we're gonna do it live.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Okay. Um, so The Friend turns water into Guinness. Is this some weird modernization of the last temptation of Christ? The devil coming to take Jesus' soul and John Constantine saves him. Is this like the kind of a nothing mat in in a nothing matters kind of way? So, like, is this a weird Jesus versus the devil parody, like just darked up? So it's highbrow, but it's also stupid.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

No, what this really is is your hipster friend that brews beer. He's just like, hey, look what I can do, and rip dirt, taste the flavors with the cream. That's all it is. It's just another pompous guy. Fair enough. Yeah, and for the record we've got to do it. It doesn't get deeper than that. Okay, he's just a hipster.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Fair. Um, and I think I have like one more. Yeah, I have one more. Uh so this one. So Garth Ennis, he's got really cynical views on superheroes. You probably know, like, The Boys was written as like a way to show uh superheroes. It's like this criticism of superhero stuff. Um, so do you think this story detracts from that or reinforces the message of what he's writing? Because I guess you can say John Constantine is a superhero. He is such an anti-hero, though.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

He is, he's not doing it unless it benefits him. Yeah. So I would say if he's writing anything, John is the most honest version of what people would consider a hero. You can write it from the perspective of this champion, best at all the these lords of hell. Sure, there's an angle you can write. He beat the devil and sent them back to save his friend. You can write that story. MacGarth wrote the honest version of his He was just doing it because he was there, and he's like, you know what? Fuck this guy. And in order to beat the uh all these like Lords of Hell, he risked everything. To the point where like those three lords were like, well, if we do collect, we're kind of fucked. Because we're gonna fight, because not one of us is going to admit losing. And if we're in fighting, then heaven's gonna destroy us. And it's just it's a selfish way of riding a hero, and that's what he did. Uh I would never say John is never gonna be the hero. Even in like the DC animated, like he did save everything, he did it in a way that like made people feel bad about themselves.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

I know of one story where he's kind of self-sacrificial. Um I'll double check to make sure I'm not making that up. It's been a while since I read that. I know I only read it once. Uh there's a Swamp Thing story from a couple years ago where he had to be self-sacrificial. Um, but what I was getting with that with uh with what Garth was kind of saying, like uh I I think this kind of does line up with that where like heroes are you know flawed and weird and silly, but I think he's also said, like, you know, there there can be some good ideas there where he's liked a few things where just like the right the right writer and the right hands can tell a good story where heroes can't just solve like there heroes. I think hit his issue is like you know, you have superheroes who like they just go in and save the day when real people just can't do that. And you're kind of writing a story, or he's writing a story where um uh John uh he's he's writing a story where um John can't even save himself, or he likely can't save himself. So like I I kind of think you're you're onto something with saying it's it's an honest version of that where he's cynical and so it it it does, I think, kind of play into his whole message where uh this is a character who is a hero, but even he can't really save himself unless he does some really, really shady shit at the end.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

If Garth wrote it of John being this extremely like cheeky guy, the entire story who came up with this plan and just got away with it without any of the suffering, without any of the real consequences, it wouldn't be a great story. Exactly. Like it's a great story because you saw this quote unquote hero of the like the main character uh kind of fail. Like he is definitely not one for greatness. Nope. He tried to do what he could do. Well he tried to take the shortcuts he wanted to take, which is the whole reason he went the magic shortcuts. He's a con man, magic helps with shortcuts, and I love that about him. Thanks for clarifying. I I do love that about him. I I do like his grips. I do like he's not a great guy. No, but the world isn't full of great people.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

Like even he's a good character because he's not a good dude. That that's exactly that's the point of an anti-hero character.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

Um he when pressed could do something extremely heroic, doesn't mean he's gonna do it all the time. There's a time and place that makes something really great or really evil. And um I won't get super political here, but let me tell you uh let me give some thoughts that kind of explain this well. Um if you do something and you brag about it, you're just sort of a jerk. But if you do something great and other people say it, you're kind of a hero. Uh if you put your face on money and monuments and buildings when you're alive, that's a fascist dictator. But if you put someone else's face and name on monuments and statues and money, that's honoring them. There's a there's a difference of who's doing it and when. Uh and I think Garth Ennis is bringing up, hey, he's not a good guy. He can do something good, but I want you to watch this guy at his lowest time and you can make him likable. He can be a very despisable person and still be made likable because we all experience low points in our life. We do see other people going through those low moments. And I think because you can actually put yourself in John's place a lot of the time, obviously I can't put myself in his place where I'm smoking 30 cigarettes a day uh a day. I don't got time for that.

SPEAKER_00 57:50

Uh and you can see where like all three sets too, I'm assuming, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 57:55

I mean that's just expensive, but like eh. But no, uh I mean you can put yourself in low someone in their lowest point. It doesn't have to be cancer. You can everyone's gone through rough moments in their life, and you can put yourself for whatever reason, it could be something uh as common and short-lived, maybe as like a breakup. You can put yourself in that character's shoes. Obviously, cancer is pretty extreme. You can put yourself in that shoes. Um and then we all kind of wish we had some sort of magical way just to make it all better. Uh and that's where his you know supernatural kind of like hero aspect comes from. Uh, because he can do that. That makes him the superhuman of the story.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

And I mean I think we all, if we could do magic, I don't know if there's a single person on the planet who would say, I'm not gonna magic my way out of like doing the dishes or something. Like everyone would.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

If I had telepathy and I could read minds, I'm going to a poker room. Alright? I thought about that quite a bit in my life. If I can freeze time, also I'm gambling. I'm gonna do my cons. Like I because I want to benefit me, and benefit me helps my family. That's what I'll say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Um, definitely noble interest.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

I mean, we can all not everyone's gonna get not everyone's gonna be Captain America.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

No, I I think on the spectrum to from Captain America to John Constantine, we're all probably we all want to be like Captain America, but I think many of us would probably at least, you know, maybe like one day a week, we're just gonna have our uh, you know, it's a it's a tough life out there, and if I can freeze time, maybe maybe I'm taking an extra Snickers bar or something. I don't know, or gamble or whatever. Whatever you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 59:47

If I had Wolverine's healing factor, I would commit a lot of insurance fraud, like in its accidents a lot. Right?

SPEAKER_00 59:58

Wasn't that an episode of the Twilight Zone where like I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

I just thought about that. I'm like, what mundane powers could I have that would make me not really a good person?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

I I'm pretty sure there's an episode of the um the Twilight Zone where this guy gets like he makes a deal with the devil and he says, um I uh Constantine appropriate. Yeah, it basically he wants to live forever. He can't, yeah. So he would like jump in front of trains for insurance money, and it like devolves into him, you know, killing his wife. So he wants the electric chair, because then he can just walk, but they just but instead of the electric chair, they throw him in jail for life.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

Bom.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

Yeah, yeah. So I I I think if I had just like you know, um a mundane power that I could exploit for money, I don't know. The jumping in front of cars sounds good, but that would hurt the other driver. I don't want to do that. See, I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:01

Everyone else is just an NPC, Vic. I fair, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:07

Okay, we we gotta wrap it up now. Kidding.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

Get cancelled. I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

Um, I don't know, I don't know like what my like mundane power would be that I would that I would want to do. Like I would do something that looks like I would get hurt, but doesn't but tries not to hurt anybody else, and I would somehow get money. Okay, I would do the most extreme version of Jackass from the 90s and 2000s that you've ever seen. Um like oh what a healing factor is. Yeah, yeah, like with a healing factor, like I would make Steve O and those guys look like kids. Like if it's just me, I would do like jump, I I would I would jump out of a plane into my garage. I want a new garage anyway. I'd use the money from filming that and putting it on the internet, going viral, but people would think it's AI, and then I would get a new garage. That that's that's what I would do.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

Premiums are going up, people. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

Insurance insurance companies hate this guy. Find out how, with this one weird trick. Immortality. Immortality, he doesn't die.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

Hey, CBB community. If you had a mundane power, what would it be and how would you exploit it? Yeah, that's a great one.

unknown 1:02:23

All right.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

We'd love to hear from your community what your aspect would be. Because at the end of the day, we're a comic people, we're hero people, we're we all have some aspect of being a little edgewordy, we all know that. This is with the territory. Uh that's what I like about Constantine. It overall, because he gets away with it, because he can back it up, he becomes a great character for him. Yeah, but he really teeters on being a villain. Like he that that's some world-ended nonsense he's doing. If other people were aware of what he's doing, they'd probably shut him down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

And please don't do crime anyone, don't do anything. Be good to each other for the love of God. We need some good. Like, we need more people like Captain America, maybe a little less like Constantine, but we can enjoy the story. But don't go too far. It becomes Swamp Thing. Yeah, don't do that one. That it would just suck to be Swamp Thing. God, I want to do Swamp Thing on this show so bad. Swamp Thing is pretty great.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

But when you're a woman to do Swamp Thing, you're just poison ivy.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:23

Uh well, I should maybe maybe we can talk about some stuff that happened in the Alan Moore Swamp thing. There's some weird shit in that one. It's it's an amazing thing. You said it right there with Alan Moore. Yep, there is it it's amazing, but there's a weird issue, but we are coming up on a little over an hour.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:43

Yeah, we have a good time here.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

Yeah. So I am going to do you have any other recommendations for Constantine or uh Garth Ennis by any chance?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:52

Uh not currently, but uh let me tell you, after reading this, I want to read a little bit more from Garth in general. Uh I'm not a huge uh I historically haven't been an electric comic reader in a very long time, so I'm just sort of getting back to it. And I definitely want to read more of Constantine. I want to read things about characters that maybe get featured out there a little bit and maybe don't have their huge time in the sun. Yeah. Or if they do, it's not really not a great property. Uh I think it was on like Legends of Tomorrow. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:24

I didn't finish that show and I didn't actually watch his solo show, but I heard it was good.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

I didn't, I didn't yeah, that's I I don't think it lasted long.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

It got like 12 issues or 12 episodes. See, that sucks. I mean, there's 300 issues of this series if you want to go deep into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:39

But they're putting on a Seychim, but he has to play it pretty safe, alright?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

Yeah, I I heard it was pretty true to character, so like this one I wouldn't exactly I this one was like probably safe to put on TV. It would have been a bummer and would have got killed in the ratings, but oh this yeah uh this story?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

Yeah, like I think they said the word shit once.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

It's safe enough. Like it you can censor a little bit and maybe you gotta change what they're calling cigarettes here and there because yeah, uh maybe I haven't use a vape.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:10

Um so for if you if you want to read more, uh Constantine, I and I also like want to just like uh I want to go through some more storylines.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:19

I want to go through some more recent ones. Um if you guys have any recommendations out there of some more uh recent stories from, I'll love to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:28

Uh James Tynan IV did the character a couple years ago, and I've been meaning to read that for a few years. I started it, didn't get very far. Um, I think that was during the Oh, I'm broke now era. Uh so for recommendations for more Constantine, I would recommend either that, any of the new 52 dark stuff. It's some of the only really good stuff from that area. Um if you can go back and read Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, uh, especially now because it's Pride Month and there's a lot of LGBTQIA plus themes in that story. Highly recommend that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:01

Yep. Constantine is uh canonically bi.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

Yep, and uh that actually comes out like right after this arc. I looked up where he came up. I wanted to see one of the reasons we picked this character was it is Pride Month, and we're trying to focus more on Pride related stories. We failed a little bit this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:18

Um, but I do uh the story itself doesn't really bring down.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Not at all. And a couple issues that apparently comes up. So that you we're not gonna cop out there, just we're just gonna take the L on this one. Uh, I am gonna remind the audience, uh, set it uh hopefully every episode this month. We're recording in advance. Uh another podcast, Escape the Mojo Verst is running a um fundraiser for um oh my god, I forgot the name of the fundraiser. I will put it in the show notes, but and I'll just cut it in here so I sound less stupid. Uh yeah, delete this part. Yeah, I'm just gonna delete that and put put something in. Uh they're running in in uh I believe it's called Trans Law, uh, which is a resource center for trans youth. Um, and if they raise a thousand dollars, they're gonna do an episode of Wicked on the in the Divine, and I would love to hear that. Um other recommendation for Punisher or for Garth Ennis, uh, specifically for you and everybody else, uh his Punisher run is really good. Um he uh actually I don't want to spoil it for you. There's a some something happens that's kind of fun that I think you'll maybe pick up on now that you've read this. But yeah, that that's my only other real Garth Ennis recommendation. Uh I I could recommend it crossed to people, but I'm not going to. I like the story. I am not saying the words I recommend crossed to anyone. That that's something you find it on your own. I will have no part of it. Fantastic. Alright, do you have any closing thoughts before we uh go to credits?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

Um, very true to the theme on this. Uh don't be surprised about the consequences. Let's redo that. Okay. Um I'm not trying to fuck. Anyway, true to the theme of this entire uh run as I said, uh oh no, the consequences of my own actions. Don't be surprised when it happens.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

Very much. Alright, everybody. Be good to each other. Thank you so much, Beef. Have a good night, everyone. Peace out. Well, guys, thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get a hold of me through email, I'm at comicbooksbeyond at gmail.com, and I'm at comic books beyond on Blue Sky, Instagram, TikTok, and we're also on YouTube. Some of the podcasts are gonna go there, but we're also working on some extra content for YouTube as well. I'd like to give a thank you to the crew of the Talking Comic Books Podcast, Brad and Lisa of Comic Book Couples Counseling, Alex Jaffe, Jeremy Whitley, Brandon McNulty, Jimmy Gasparo and the crew of the Comic Book Yeti, and John Klein the Third of Shadow Flame with Magic. Most importantly, I'd like to thank all of our listeners and supporters. Be good checking each other out there and take care of your people. And we'll see you next time.