Episode 56 - Creator Interview David Pepose

This week we are honored to have Mr. David Pepose on the show! We chat, life, comics, his Kickstarter for the O.Z. 

Another Comic Podcast, Escape the Mojoverse is running a Fund Raiser for Transgender Law Center.  Check it out below, and check out their podcast! If they raise a $1,000.00 for this great cause, they'll also do an episode on Wicked and the Divine!

https://www.instagram.com/p/DZBQKJdkU8N/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Kickstarter for the OZ by David Pepose

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/theozcomic/the-oz-3

Kickstart for The Trenches 1 by Hunter Van Lierop

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tokusastudios/the-trenches-1-a-24-page-wwi-body-snatcher-horror-comic

Hosted by Vic 

Please Send Questions and Feedback to Any of the following: 

Bluesky: @comicbooksbeyond.bsky.social
Instagram: @comicbooksbeyond
Gmail: comicbooksbeyond@gmail.com

Check us out on Youtube as well!

Comic Books Beyond would like to thank:  The Crew of the Talking Comics Podcast, Brandon McNulty, Lisa and Brad from Comic Book Couples Counseling, Alex Jaffe, Jeremy Whitley, Jimmy Gaspero and John Klein III of Shadow and Flame with Magik Podcast and David Pepose. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everybody, Vic here. We have a great episode with Mr. David Peppos, who is one of my favorite comic writers. He's here to promote his Kickstarter for the OZ. Link will be in the description for that. I don't want to say too much here because the episode is just that good. We have a couple other bits of news we're just going to go through and then we'll get into the episode proper. I'd really like to use the podcast to do some form of charity work when we have a bigger reach. But definitely, you know, we're a baby podcast for right now. Uh growing. And it sounds like we actually have some more listeners recently, which thank you guys and welcome if this is your first time hanging out with us. We don't get to do this uh too much. I definitely would like to do it more, and we're going to keep pursuing it uh because I love talking to people and uh, you know. But anyway, uh another podcast which is really good, Escape the Mojo Verse, is running a fundraiser for Transgender Law Center. Uh from their Instagram post, the Transgender Law Center is the largest national trans-led organization advocating for self-determined for all people. Escape the Mojo Verse's goal is to raise $1,000 for the Transgender Law Center. If they meet that goal, they're going to do a bonus episode on The Wicked and the Divine by Karen Gillian and Jamie McKeldy. So not only is this a great cult great uh a great cause, uh the Wicked and the Divine happens to be one of my favorite comics, and I'd really like to hear that episode. So uh we donate a couple bucks. Link is in the uh description and in the show notes. So uh if you if it's something you're passionate about and you'd like to contribute to, definitely recommend uh can uh contributing if you can. Uh if you're a listener of the show and you want to submit questions or feedback or suggestions, or maybe just have a book you'd like us to read, uh send an email to comicbooksbeyond at gmail.com. Same goes if you're a creator, if you want a uh us to review something or if you have something to promote. Or if you'd just like to hop on the show and chat and reach out, we'll try to make it happen. Uh same emails as always, comicbooksbeyond at gmail.com. Uh last bit of news, I think I was given a review copy of The Trenches Number One by Hunter Van Leerup. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. Uh he's doing a Kickstarter that ends on July 2nd. This is a World War One horror story. Uh, I don't want to say too much because I don't want to give anything away. I was given a review copy. I did back the Kickstarter. So simple review there, I'd say. Uh now I think World War I is a perfect era for uh something horror, and this is what I would call horror-ass horror. There was nothing particularly too dark in there for my sensitivities, but I know just World War I can be a particularly uh challenging subject matter because of just the violence associated with it. Not that there's any such thing as a good war, um, but I just know there is a history, and some people are just rather sensitive around World War I, which is perfectly fine and justifiable. Uh, I just did want to give that disclosure. Link to that uh Kickstarter is actually going to be uh in the show notes as well. Uh strangely, uh, and I mean this as a compliment, Hunter, if you're listening, uh, please pass this on to your uh artist and colorist. The color palette reminded me of the movie Mandy uh and what it did for the tone and atmosphere. The content didn't remind me of the movie Mandy at all, but if you've seen that movie, you know how aggressive the colors are, and I think it really works here. Uh so next week, before we get into today's episode, uh, we're not doing nuclear spoilers on anything, but I had a ton of fun talking to Daddy Beef about uh Hellblazer, which was never a series I was high on to begin with. And really that episode made me like the character and also Garth Annis a lot more. Uh, if you haven't heard that episode yet, go back. It's one of our favorites. Uh I've been really liking the episodes lately. So I think next week we might, I'm not sure what we're gonna talk about yet. We're not gonna go nuclear spoilers on anything, so there's no required reading. Uh, but definitely check in. We're gonna have some fun. We have one really cool collab coming up later uh next month that I hope I can talk about soon. I just don't like to tease you a little bit, but I'm not gonna announce anything hard, you know, too soon. Uh had that happened once and then we had to scrap the moonlight episode. Uh, I have one other collab that I would like to get done, or it's not technically crap collab, it's in uh it's a host, uh, one of the other hosts has something we want to do together. Uh, we just have to find time to, you know, get that done. Uh so next week, I don't know, we're just probably gonna talk about what I've been reading, some stuff lately. Uh, next month, I did have a couple ideas for things I wanted to do, but I don't know. We're gonna see where things fall. Uh, you know, I hope everyone out there is doing good. Uh I'm really excited to jump into this next episode. Next week, uh, we'll see you back here for a more normal episode or a more standard episode, I guess I guess you could call. I would love to do interviews every week. It's one of the main reasons I'm doing this, but that's just not gonna happen for a little while yet. But as always, if you're interested in coming on the show, you have something to say, reach out to me and uh we'll chat. So let's jump into today's episode. And this is gonna be Mr. David Peppos in soon. Hey everybody, welcome to Comic Books Beyond. I'm your host Vic, and I am here in the studio with a very special guest. I have with me the writer of Speed Racer, Space Ghost, many, many books at Marvel that I couldn't remember or couldn't uh all rattle off. Um I have with me the writer of the OZ who has a Kickstarter campaign going right now. I have Mr. David Pepos in the studio with me. David, say hi to everybody.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Hi. Uh thank you so much for having me. Excited to be on the podcast. Um, and uh yeah, excited to talk uh all things comics with you today.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Awesome. So, David, can uh I get your uh comic book origin story? Like what where where did you first get into comics?

SPEAKER_00 5:48

You know, I I I came by it honestly. I'm I'm a third generation comics fan. Uh my grandfather used to read me Calvin and Hobbes as a kid, and um my mother uh uh used to read all the Silver Age DC and Silver Age Archie. And so um, you know, they gave me a copy of Amazing Spider-Man 346 um, you know, when I was like five or six, and it kind of just rewired my brain. Um, you know, and and and I I I love comics, you know, as just like kind of that synthesis of like morality tales and themes and long-running soap opera with all kind of filtered through as such amazingly dynamic art and characters. Um but yeah, I I I entered at DC Comics out of college. I worked on books like uh Batman R.I.P. and Final Crisis and Green Lantern Secret Origin. Um and uh from there I uh I wound up uh going into comics journalism for a long time. Um it was it was during the height of the 08 recession, so there were no jobs to be had, but um I I wound up connecting with somebody who had just finished up at Newsarama who um brought me on board. And so I wrote reviews for the better part of a decade and um while you know working a day job, I was a newspaper reporter, and then I I wound up working um publicity over at CBS uh in New York for many years, and then um uh wound up moving out west to be uh an ill-fated Hollywood assistant. And um, during all of this, I thought, you know, I I loved comics. I I didn't know exactly what I wanted to be. I I quickly learned that being an editor was not really my skill set organizationally uh or really creatively. And so um I thought maybe I'd get into TV development. And so I kind of put the cart before the horse, thinking, well, if I could prove that I could build a story, I could show somebody that I could break one down. And so I wound up writing my first book, Spencer and Locke. And um, you know, it was the combination of being like the world's worst Hollywood assistant and um people really liking that book. That the light bulb finally went off, and and and me growing up in the Midwest with no creative role models, I realized, oh, I could just make a run at this and be a professional writer. And so I I've been lucky to be uh gainfully employed uh uh ever since.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

That's awesome. And for listeners at home, this is gonna be a little bit of a shorter interview compared to some of the other ones we've done. David is a very busy man, you're on about a hundred other podcasts. Um gracious to be on ours. And uh I wish I and I'm gonna have to have you back on. Hopefully, we do a good job today. Because you said about 40 things in that just opening that just makes me go. You quoted my favorite era of DC comics, uh the late 2000s, specifically, like right around that infinite crisis through 52 time. That is my favorite era of DC. Uh, you started off with Spider-Man, which is one of my earliest uh gateway drugs into comics. Um, and I think the numbers are close. It was for me, I want to say 438 or 436 uh was the first thing I remember buying with my own money. I'd read comics before that, but yeah, we're we're within a few few years of each other. So uh so can you tell me uh now you've worked on all different um you know sides of the you know comics world. You uh said you were doing journalism. And and I'm sorry, did you say you actually did some editing or were you just interning there?

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Well, you know, I I I interned at DC and then I was actually by first real comics credit, I was the assistant editor for uh Fangoria Graphics, which was sort of Fangoria's kind of previous uh uh uh stint in in the comics industry, you know, time is a flat circle. Um, and then uh yeah, you know, I I wound up kind of learning the ropes a little bit in my own projects um because I didn't have the the name or the time or the money to to hire an editor on my own. But I wound up taking a class uh at Comics Experience, uh the which is uh an online program that Andy Schmidt from Boom Studios founded. I highly recommend it for anybody who's an aspiring creator. And I remember taking a class on comics editing and project management. And I I remember particularly Bobby Curnow, who's now EIC over at IDW, he spoke to our class and sort of told us kind of what a day in the life is. And I remember leaving that class and being like, oh, I'm not cut out for this whatsoever. Um, you know, and and and so it took a little while for me to kind of find find my path. Like I said, I grew up in the Midwest. I'm I'm from St. Louis. I so I didn't know anybody who was ever like a professional writer. And so I I didn't know I was allowed to to do that as a career. Um, and so it kind of I had to sort of cycle my way through all the stable jobs um before I I tried this one. And this was sort of the one that I felt like I could really kind of uh make my mark.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

You you you talked about a day in the life a little bit earlier. Uh can I ask you, what's a day in the life of David Peppos? Like I like to get to know the person, not just the work.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

No, that's that's a that's a kind question. You know, I mean, it things do shift. You know, it it it ultimately can kind of comes down to triage, you know, what's the thing that needs to be addressed right in front of me right now in this moment? So, for example, um, you know, I'm I'm running the clock on a deadline for Space Ghost. Um, we just announced Space Ghost versus the Herculoids um that's coming out in September. And uh so I'm uh writing, I'm finishing up issue three of that right now. And so um Jonathan Lau, uh my amazing uh uh uh collaborator and artist on the book, um, he draws like a damn Terminator. That guy moves that guy can draw two books a month if you let it. That's insane. He's doing that right now, um, uh, because I have a baby coming in a few weeks. And so they're trying to sort of give me a little as much cushion as I can. Um, and so like I'm sort of you know racing him to the finish line uh you know for the next script. And so like I spent a few hours uh working on pages for that uh before our interview. And oftentimes, yeah, things like interviews, doing publicity, that will also kind of determine a day's schedule of how I break things down. Um, but usually, like, you know, I I try to in the morning, you know, I get up, I catch up on emails, um, anything that my editors send in, like if there's pages I need to look at and give notes on, I'll I'll do that. Um, you know, I I sort of cue up my social media uh as best I can for the day, see if anybody's talking about our books. Um, you know, I'll go to the gym, try to get that out of the way fast. And then yeah, when I come back, it's sort of like, okay, what are things I need to prep? Is there, you know, if I'm doing a book like um Space Coast, for example, you know, and it's something I need to do homework on where I need to re-watch all the cartoons, I will be trying to do that sort of earlier in the day. I do tend to do my best writing in the evening. So usually around dinner time is when I'm really the most locked in. But you know, it it really is kind of the the the work is always the same. It's just sort of the hours kind of shift. Um, and so it's really just sort of figuring out what's the the most pressing deadline, what's the thing that needs to be taken care of in this moment, or is there something that my editors are sending me? But um, yeah, it really it just kind of gets broken down to script writing, um, you know, uh whether that's actually writing the actual script or it's developing an outline um or doing what's called a lettering pass when the art comes in and I have to kind of revise the script based on what's on the on the art now. Um it's reviewing stuff, it's you know, it's checking out artwork is it's coming in, you know, the layouts, the the the pencils, the inks, the colors. Um when the lettering first draft comes in, is there any final tweaks that I need to make to that? Um publicity, like I said, doing a lot of interviews. Um, you know, every time I've got a book on final order cutoff, I write an email to to the retailers to sort of you know let them know that this is coming. Um, you know, and then I guess in in my in my uh not so spare time, you know, it's uh trying to take care of myself physically, emotionally. Sometimes you need breaks. I'm I'm pretty bad at that, but I try to carve something out at least once a week. You know, uh uh and and beyond that, it's sort of just when I do have free time and I'm not sort of juggling a lot of projects, then it's figuring out what's the next thing I want to work on. And and uh, you know, trying to develop more ideas based on that, checking in with editors at publishers I've worked with or publishers I'd like to work with, and saying, like, here's the latest stuff. So um, yeah, it's a lot of spinning plates and and and no day is ever exactly the same. Um, but you usually you you sort of have the basic component parts. It's a lot like Taco Bell, uh, in like, you know, like 10 different meals, but all the component parts are kind of the same. Um, that's kind of what the day in the life of a comics writer is.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

That's awesome because one, I love Taco Bell, and two, I happen to love your writing as well. And uh, David, I just did want to give you a compliment before this and just reinforce what you said just really reinforces this. Uh, I I mean this, I think the way you conduct yourself. I've listened to some other interviews and um, you know, the the what you talk about, uh how you present yourself and reach out to other creators and look you know into other outlets, people as small as ours. I I kind of view it as kind of the gold standard for how I wish basically every comics book professional writer would like to would would conduct themselves, you know, working on yourself, uh good positive messaging, and just reaching out to what you told me off the call was where where you said you uh you know you you're you're looking to promote yourself, and yeah, that's what's important.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Yeah. Well, you know, I I I learned that kind of uh when I was at CBS. Um, you know, there's there's um the head of um the the the the the it was like it was it was the writings metrics. Um her her name is Marianne O'Leary, really nice lady, and um oftentimes I would chat with her, you know, I would write, I would, I would help write the press releases talking about the evening's ratings, and so she was the one who had all the data. And she said something to me, you know, I was I was young, I was in my my my late twenties, you know, when when I was working there, and she said, you know, at the end of the day, you can write the best show on television, and it doesn't matter if nobody's heard of it. And that's something that kind of really stuck in my head, and I think maybe sort of uh reinforced a lot of the skill sets I had already built as both, you know, a newspaper reporter and and working a newsrama, or I was still moonlighting at the time. And I I I it really kind of occurred to me that first off, no one's gonna promote your work, no one's gonna love your work the way that a creator will love their own work. Um it's just you know, a publisher, they've got a lot of other books. You are inevitably, even if they like your book, some degree of a statistic. Um and artists, meanwhile, this is physical labor for them. Like they are really doing a lot of the the work for them is extra hard. So I can't count on them to do a lot of promotion on the work um because they're busy actually drawing it. And so I see it as not just you know, um uh a benefit for myself, but I see it as I'm also shouting out my collaborators' work and I'm shouting out the book itself so it can be continue to be uh viable for the publishers so my collaborators continue to get work. And and I I always say, um, and maybe this makes me a terrible uh uh businessman and a terrible freelancer, but I always say I don't I don't do this job for the money, I do it for the reputation. Um I do it Well, I think that makes you a great businessman, honestly. Every book is a calling card for the next work. And also, you know, I when I go to conventions, I sort of see it as I I'm I'm building my Baskin Robbins, I'm using a lot of fast food. But you know, a flavor for everybody. And so every book is sort of, you know, is meant to be kind of okay, what's what's additive to that convention table? And so um, but yeah, I think you know, promotion is is is something that I think is really important. I think it's a way that also kind of helps me connect with fans, um, and it makes the work a little bit less isolating, you know. I I I do everything from my office um or I do it from my couch. And um, my my wife and I are both freelancers, so we get to see each other all the time, and I love that. But uh there are days where she's the only person I see. And so being able to sort of promote the work kind of it really reinforces to me why I'm doing it. Um, and it's uh uh, like I said, a really great way to connect with fans who are or are responding to our work.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

I work from home, so there's days where most days my wife is the only person I see. So it's great to chat with someone who isn't just my wife or my two cats that I just sit and make fun of.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Yes, I get that.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Um, so I would like to shift gears a little bit and try to focus on the OZ a little bit because that's what we're really here to promote. Sure. Um now I've not read all of your work, but I've sampled a decent amount of it. I was actually started reading your moon night last night.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Yeah, uh the uh I've been a bit on a like a Marvel Knights era kick, and I got through all the moon night and all the daredevil stuff. Like, oh, you did moon night, I didn't know about that. Uh so I you know, I've been I've read a good amount of Space Ghost, Summer Your Speed Racer, I've read uh Moon Knight, and I've read um the preview pages of the OZ. Uh I personally think what I've seen from the OZ is your best work. And uh going across all other stuff, you've got a range. You really are uh, and again, mean this as a compliment. I never really connected with Speed Racer, it was never my thing. And uh I I got your Space Ghost, and I am a huge Space Ghost fan. I grew up on Hanna Barbera, yeah, and I move and I I I check out the Speed Racer. I'm like, wow, you made me care about characters I didn't think I could ever possibly care about. Then I I'm reading your moon night, it's a good solid story, and then I read your OZ and I'm like, holy hell, how do you do this? Then to you balancing all these tones, and you're writing stuff that's true all ages, like appropriate for pretty much anybody who isn't five years old to enjoy. And you get into the the stuff in the OZ, and it's just it's mind-blowing, it's dark, but it's also somewhat fun at the same time. So let's talk about the creative process and where the OZ comes from.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Well, uh, you know, for for those who aren't familiar with the OZ, which is running on Kickstarter right now, plug-a-de-plug, tinyurl.com slash the OZ comic. You can get all three issues in different or digital. Um, yeah, you know, uh the the Oz for those who aren't familiar with it, the the the elevator pitch is it's what if Mad Max took place in the Wizard of Oz? It's the story of Dorothy Gale's granddaughter, who's an Iraq war veteran who's caught up in a tornado and stranded in the war-torn land of Oz. And that's when she realizes that not only were her alien grandmother's tall tales all true, but that her killing two wicked witches and exposing the Wizard of Oz and abruptly vanishing, that's not a happy ending. That's a power vacuum, not unlike Baghdad. And so now our new Dorothy is putting all of her skills to the test and assembling her grandmother's former friends, the Tin Soldier, the Prince of Lions, and Jack Pumpkinhead, in order to bring peace to the occupied zone, or as the locals call it, the OZ. Um, and so yeah, it's uh a pretty fun book that kind of dates back to the early days of my career. Um, you know, this this is something that we did our first Kickstarter in 2020, and then we did our second one in 2021, and it took a few years to get all the artwork together for for the third one. Um, I I want to always make it clear it's not that I got tapped at Marvel and said, screw this. Uh you know, I I I wrote the entire series, I finished it before the first Kickstarter even launched. It's just lifetime with our uh, you know, our artist Ruben Rojas, an amazingly talented guy. Um, you know, he got married, he had a kid, he was in Spain during like the war. Worst of COVID, which did a real number on the eponymous. And I believe there was something with either one of his parents or one of his wife's parents. But it's just, it was a lot for him to juggle on top of a day job and raising a child. You know, he kind of had a Shawshank his way through our giant-sized finale, which uh we actually revealed we're very close to our stretch goal in this one. Um, you know, it's not 44 pages. He actually drew um 52 pages for this one. So it really just it took a little while for for him to get there. Um, but uh yeah, you know, it it's funny. I look back on that book and and I I I I I love kind of how scrappy it is. You know, this thing came out right on the heels of my first book, Spencer and Locke, which um that book was What if Calvin and Ha Hobbs grew up in Sin City? Um my my love letter to Bill Waterson and Frank Miller, um, kind of unholy demon child of the two of them. But it was all meant to be a human story underneath it. I I I I've done a few kind of dark riffs on on pop culture, particularly at the start of my career. But it wasn't the goal was never to do a story that was just hinging on shock value. Because that'll get your foot in the door once, but it doesn't build emotional investment with your readership that that results in repeat business. So Spencer and Locke was really a story about like childhood trauma and mental illness and the lengths your mind will go to protect itself from harm. It's it's why does this grown man still have this vividly imagined best friend from his childhood? And that kind of interrogated maybe a core inconsistency that I noticed in the original Calvin and Hobbes, which is why does Calvin need this kind of affectation? What if it's not an affectation? What if it's the symptom of a darker pathology? Um, and so when that book came out, I didn't know if people were gonna like it. Um, you know, I was like, there's gonna be a ratio here. So there's gonna be the people who love it for the audacity. There's gonna be people who actually read it and are like, oh, there's like an actual story here, it's not just a stunt. And then there's gonna be the purists who understandably, I I think Bill Waterson's a trailblazing pioneer. Like I said, my grandfather used to read it to me. Um, and so there are gonna be some people who do not take kindly to making Sacred Cow into some tasty hamburger. Um and um thankfully the the the the the response was overwhelmingly positive. We were we were nominated for five Ringo Awards for that book. People really enjoyed Spencer and Locke, and so um, so I was thinking of other books that I could come up with and and in different genres. And so, you know, I came up with uh Go to the Chapel, which was Die Hard and Meets Wedding Crashers, and that was sort of my riff on romance. Um, I came up with my sort of long gestating sci-fi book Grand Theft Astro, which we're just basically looking for a new publisher and a new artist for that. Um uh and then the OZ, you know, trying to do a riff on on fantasy. And uh the way that story kind of came into being was I was just writing down fantasy titles, just like what are the iconic things? Anything I could I could draw inspiration from. And um, my computer froze in the middle of the word Oz. Um, you know, just weird serendipity. And as I sort of stared at my cursor that was stuck in between the letters O and Z, I was like, oh, that could be an acronym. And then I thought, you know, I was playing with words and I was like, occupied zone. And basically the image for issue one, the cover that Ruben Rojas drew, it basically was plucked straight out of my head, like the idea of Dorothy as this soldier giving you this thousand-yard stare as she sh sits in the aftermath of a magical battlefield, and you see this hulking juggernaut tin man behind her. Um, and you know, like spent like Spencer and Locke, you know, it was really just looking back at the core text and figuring out a a key inconsistency there, which is like I said, um, you know, Dorothy kills the wicked witches and and and unmasks the wizard of Oz and then she splits. That's three out of the four like core pillars of Oz just gone in in a week. Um that really justified the idea of the war story to me. Um, and it also spoke to my days as a newspaper reporter, um, where one of the many beats they covered was the local veterans beat. And so I talked with a lot of veterans coming back from overseas. Uh I wrote for the Berkshire Eagle, Pittsfield, Massachusetts. There's any mass fans out there. Um, and you know, just talking with them, hearing their stories, uh, not just about what resources were available. And again, the further you are from Boston, the less tax dollars you're gonna get. But um, well, you know, just also like how things, you know, how this society that that you and I and they all grew up in, which seems so normal, and then they go overseas and this military environment where things are much more regimented, the stakes are way different, and that's not even including if you're coming back with PTSD or traumatic brain injury, or if you've seen people you've served with die in front of you, or your own life has been at risk, or you've had to take somebody else's life, you come back home in this place that seemed so natural, is suddenly a completely alien place where the pacing is different. Everything's so frenetic and chaotic and unregimented and disorganized. And the the priorities are so different. They're all super kind of ruthless and individualistic and and and and and and very kind of rooted in uh how much money can I make, and oftentimes how badly can I screw somebody else over? Uh, you know, and and I think that kind of boiled down to really the first line of the book, which is um they say there's no place like home, but for me, home is just another place that doesn't exist anymore. And it's this idea that kind of I think comprises the theme of the OZ, which is we have this memory of the past, and it's a place that, you know, we can't return to. And yet we kind of look at it through rose-colored glasses a little bit. And when we're sort of faced with the reality of what things are, or we're faced with the reality of how things have changed since since when we were kids, you know, that's that's something that I think we all have to mourn. Um, that's something we're all a little traumatized by. And I think living in the United States of America in the year of our Lord 2026, I think we've all spent like the last 10 years kind of mourning. I know, you know, it's easy to be um um disillusioned with what this country is. Um you you know, you read uh a history book, you read the headlines, but I think the last 10 years in particular have really sort of um uh have have stripped away a lot of the uh uh illusions that a lot of us have had about this country, about humanity, um, about human nature. And so, you know, we're all kind of mourning beside Dorothy in a lot of ways. And so seeing this character who has a past, who has scars, who has trauma, that she can't quite escape. But maybe she can be more than just that. Maybe she can transcend that, maybe she can have that kind of redemptive climb away from her own inner demons. And that's a kind of character I like to write. It's uh that's a that is sort of the archetype I find myself revisiting quite a bit. Because I think we all have things in our past that hurt us, things that we don't like to think about, things that shape us, even though we don't like that. And I think the idea of giving characters who you can offer a sense of hope that that doesn't the worst moment of your life doesn't have to be your entire life, that there is a future, there is a way that you can still move forward. Um, that's something that certainly gives me a lot of hope as a as a writer and a human being. And it's something that I hope our readers draw a lot of hope from too.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Well, that was inspiring. And I've got to like collect myself now because like what do I where do I ask you to go from there? You kind of just summed up everything that I like to see writers accomplish in one goal. Um and you know, you're you're talking about nostalgia and you're using uh I I think maybe a coincidental, but maybe not so coincidental part of your career is you were using a lot of um properties or characters or ideas that we all grew up on. Wizard of Oz, you know, Space Ghost, Speed Racer. Um were you also writing Captain Planet for a while, or are you still writing that?

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Uh, you know, so Captain Planet's on Hiatus uh at this at this moment, but you know, it's funny. Um yeah, you know, I I never expected to sort of have this kind of niche that I've carved for myself of sort of taking the stuff of our childhood and figuring out ways to either modernize it or ways to sort of sometimes make it a little darker and grittier and more psychological driven. But um, you know, the the the sort of those feel like two different strains that have kind of converged a little, um, uh, particularly where I'm at now. And I think it comes for for for a lot of reasons. I mean, you know, uh something I was just thinking about that I didn't really address from your earlier question was just you talked about sort of me having a sense of range. And I like playing with different genres. And I think some of it is out of a degree of restlessness. Um, you know, once I finish a book, I'm exhausted with that genre. And I so I want to kind of shake it up a little bit and give, you know, if I'm writing a crime book, when I'm done with that crime book, I'm usually like, okay, I need to do something else with different muscle groups so I can let the crime muscles relax a little bit. Um, and it also goes back to sort of the Baskin Robbins of it all that I I I want to have a bunch of different flavors. Yeah. But um, yeah, I think there's something to be said of first off, drawing from things that have a lot of iconography that I can kind of play around with. But I also I like kind of subverting expectations a little bit. I like being able to sort of do the motorcycle stunt jump. Um, I know that's sort of like it draws a little bit of attention, and there are a lot of people who are sort of like, can this idiot stick the landing? Um and I I I've found that like I like when I'm in a convention, that I can mash up two kind of weird different things and find that middle ground where they have a little bit of magnetism that that that really makes it all spark. And so when I go to a convention and I say, you know, for example, my book, The Devil Wears My Face, I'm like, oh, that's face off meets the exorcist. People they'll they'll chuckle and then they'll be like, wait, he's he's he's serious. Like, okay, what does that look like? And then I can sort of take this kind of like crazy concept that that that on its face might look a little ridiculous, and then commit to it and find kind of that human core to it. Um, but uh yeah, you know, it's uh I think it's interesting that I've sort of morphed from the guy who did sort of gritty Calvin and Hobbes and gritty Wizard of Oz to doing sort of the modern Saturday morning cartoon block. Um, that's not really like a niche I had expected to carve myself. I I think a lot of what I've learned, I've I've I've it's been a little over 10 years since I sold my first book. And I've learned that you can only control so much. You can pitch certain stories that you feel really strongly about, like the OZ, and see those through. And other times there will be opportunities that it will present themselves that you would never expect. Um, and so Space Ghost was one of those, you know, that I had just uh wrapped up uh uh several books over at Marvel. I had done Moon Knight City of the Dead, and I had done my Punisher miniseries. And um that sort of got Nick Berucci at Dynamite thinking, like, okay, we've known David for a long time since his comics journalism days, he's proven himself. Let's give him a shot on something a little longer. And so um, you know, Space Ghost kind of was sort of the proving ground in a lot of ways. Um, it was a place for me to take all the theories I had picked up, whether it's my creator-owned work, like the OZ or the lessons I learned at Marvel, and saying, okay, like if I had basically absolute freedom to do a superhero book with the the the characters that that that I've been given, what would I do with that? And um, so it really was kind of um a leap of faith in a career of leaps of faith. Um, and uh thankfully people seemed to really resonate with Space Ghost, and it felt like a lot of the theories that I had brought to the table really felt very vindicated.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Oh, 100%. Like that book, uh, I started reading right in the middle, and uh I was able to pick up right on it, like the tone, everything was like clicking. Um, does Jonathan Lau do the covers on those as well?

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Or is that someone uh so we've well we are we're having a little bit of a shift uh starting with the annual. Um, you know, we we had sort of our cover group together, more or less unbroken for two years. Um, you know, we had uh Francisco Matina and we had Jay Lee and we had Bjorn Barons, and then uh we had Michael Cho. Um he dipped out a little bit in issue uh in volume one. Um Anthony Marquez stepped in to finish volume one, and then uh Michael came back for volume two. Um and then um with our annual that is uh up for pre-orders now, it's actually uh final orders are due on Monday, the uh the 22nd. Um because we thought we were gonna end the run with 12 and we sort of extended it kind of at the 11th hour. Uh, I know Jonathan is doing at least one cover, maybe two. Um, and then uh we've got Jerry Ordway, we've got Bjorn Barons, and um uh oh bam, why am I blanking?

SPEAKER_01 35:31

That's a murderous road. Jeez.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

But it's it's it's it's it's a good it's a good crew. But um, you know, Jonathan, I've been a fan of his since um uh his work on Green Hornet with Kevin Smith. And um uh so he um uh when when my editor Joe Ryband and I were talking about possible artists on the book and Jonathan's name came up, um, pretty much the rest of the list went away. Um I I I told Joe kind of at that moment. I was like, oh, if Lau is in the conversation, it's gotta be him. Um and you know, from the very moment he kind of he he he he drew a couple pages from issue one just to kind of show us what he was thinking. Um and you can see it in issue one, it's the page where um um uh uh Space Ghost crashes in through the ceiling to to save Jan and Jace from from from Brack and Sisto. And um and then the following page right after that where um Space Ghost like gets his gauntlet knocked off um uh by by Brack. Um those were the first two pages that Jonathan showed us. And I remember thinking, okay, this is the guy, because he understood immediately that Jan and Jace aren't just accessories, that they are really the point of view characters in the book. And yeah, that even though the book is titled Space Ghost, they I think are are are equal partners in sort of this storyline. Um, and so the fact that Jonathan understood that just by reading the first script, um, he's understood kind of the assignment for this book. Um, and and he's been so amazingly consistent, added so much of his own voice to it, especially with all the character designs and the tone visually. Um, and so you know, I I consider the Space Ghost to be just as much his baby as it is mine.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

I I was gonna say, uh, when I was reading through that, it kind of reminded me of it kind of like a Batman book from like a Robin perspective, if that makes sense. Like uh they're always looking at then the sh just the shots and the way he angles, you know, the Space Ghost. It or maybe it's a bit uh Superman maybe is a better, better look.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

I think I I don't think I I think you're you're you're not wrong on any of that. I mean, I think um first off, the the the Batman DNA, I think we come by it honestly. Um Space Ghost literally came as a reaction to Adam West's Batman, you know, um it was right on the heels of of that show, just like absolutely, you know, getting monster ratings. And so everybody was either trying to license superheroes. That's why you saw um, you know, you saw Lou Ferrigno as the Hulk, and you saw uh the The Wonder Woman show. But also um everybody, you know, if they couldn't license a superhero, they made their own up. And so that's that's how Space Coast came to being. And that was kind of the reason I took on the assignment was um, you know, I I realized as I as I started watching the original cartoons and noticing kind of the contrast between what I saw in those original episodes versus my only exposure to Space Coast beyond that, before that, was a few episodes of Coast to Coast. I had missed a lot of that, so I even that wasn't like a core thing for me. And the Joe Kelly miniseries um from 2001. I didn't know he did a mini, I didn't know Joe Kelly did a miniseries. That's awesome. He did, he did, and and we uh without spoilers, kind of uh had a we we we uh we have a a bit of a nod to that in in in the issue of Space Coast that just came out last week. Um, and and so seeing that, which was like it was like a Batman Begins take on Space Coast the summer before Batman Begins came out. Oh wow, you know, it didn't really have a ton of focus on Jan and J's. So when I watched those original cartoons and I realized like, oh, they are a core part of all this, um, you know, between that and noticing the shift in tone between the 60s run and coast to coast and Joe Kelly and you know, even the future quest series in 2017, I was like, oh, you know, Batman's changed a lot since Adam West tonally stylistically a little bit. Why why can't Space Ghost? And so, you know, that first year was a lot like, you know, trying to do kind of our version of the long Halloween um for Space Ghost, you know, um of sort of every issue having kind of that core villain, uh villain of the month and and sort of saving the cliffhangers for the big guns, um, and you know, just sort of using that to build to the Council of Doom. And then our second year, which was sort of kind of a little bit of a uh a wooler kind of storyline, because we kept extending it, unlike year one that was sort of locked in at 13 issues from the very beginning. Um, you know, this started at five, went to eight, then to 10, then to 12, and then to 13. So uh, you know, we kind of kept sort of building more and more runway at while we were already on the tracks. Um, but yeah, you know, I I I love writing Space Ghost. I love the themes of it. I think the Found Family stuff is maybe sort of the other half of that redemptive climb that I was talking about with the sort of those core characters that have a past, is um, I think in every book I've ever written, they don't do it, they don't climb out of it on their own, you know, with the Spencer and Locke. Detective Locke, he relies so much on Spencer, um, that, you know, and Spencer is the one who's sort of trying his best to sort of help this very damaged man um, you know, get out of bed every morning. Or the OZ, where you see, you know, Dorothy finds meaning in this new camaraderie she has with the Tin Soldier and with uh the Prince of Lions and with Toto, and as you'll see in issue three when uh Jack Pumpkinhead winds up joining the team. Um, you know, uh I I think we never go through life alone. And I think for me, sort of the best parts of me have always been influenced by the people that I've surrounded myself with, whether it's uh my friends, whether it's my wife, or in the case of Space Ghost, you know, um, I'm the older brother of triplets. And so when my triplets were born, you know, um, that's Space Ghost. Uh, you know, it's it's literally the day I started counting everything in threes. Um, you know, uh uh and so yeah, you know, I I I I think having that kind of core interesting supporting cast is is a very important part of all the books that I I I try to write. And whether it's just sort of a a twofer like Spencer and Locke or or uh you know more of a tight ensemble like Space Ghost or a little bit more of a sprawling thing like the OZ or or Savage Avengers. Um that's another thing that I I think I I I constantly find myself revisiting in my work.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Savage Avengers?

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Yeah, I'll definitely check that one out then.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Um uh that was a really fun that was my first Marvel book. Um, and and I wound up writing Conan the Barbarian out of the Marvel universe in that. Oh wow. And so uh I still love that book. It was sort of my team of misfit toys, um with like Electra as Daredevil and Flash Thompson as Anti-Venom and Weapon H, the Wolverine Hulk clone, because there was we didn't have access to anybody else with claws. Um, you know, Black Knight, Cloak and Dagger. Um, you know, it was a weird eclectic team, but it meant that I could kind of do whatever I wanted with them. Um, so it it was a that was a fun book and sort of uh the perfect way to kind of get my feet on the ground uh at the House of Ideas.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

That's amazing. Uh so that was the one that I wasn't sure if I was gonna check out. Just I get nervous whenever I see adjective anything anymore, uh, with um just like I I don't know. I I it's just one of those things that always scares me these days. Um but it's uh generally if I see your name on a book, I think it's worth checking out. But I I for I checked out your uh Punisher and your Moon Knight before, and I mean I like them both a lot, so I'm adding that right to the list.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Yeah, thank you. Well, yeah, if you like those, um then you'll definitely like Savage Avengers um because I think Savage Avengers walked so Space Ghost could run. Uh oh, good to know. There's certainly I I I I I wrote a little bit more streamlined in Space Ghost, you know. Um Savage Avengers was my first experience, um, not only writing for the big two, but dealing with big two lettering, which I have learned can be a little bit um um chunkier than than what I was used to in the creator owned sphere, and so it can make things seem even a little more overwritten um than it would in in some of my creator own work. But um, yeah, the core DNA is very much apparent. At least to me. And so yeah, I think, you know, Savage Avengers and Moon My Moon Night Mini, those sorts of books you can see the building blocks for Space Ghost right there. So it's fun.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

I wish we had another two or three hours together. Just because the the technical stuff you're talking about, it makes my little comic nerd heart just go, oh, I gotta know.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

But we are coming up on time, unfortunately. I just I don't want to. No, no, no. First of any, I'm sure. I I hope so. Uh so David, I've got to ask you two questions before we uh part ways. Uh one, because the audience will kill me if I don't ask this one. So no one survives the show without this question. Uh you get to go anywhere in the world. What are you getting for lunch?

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Uh well, um, yeah, I think if I could go anywhere in the world, um you know, uh, well, I mean, New York City. I mean, I I used to live in in New York before I moved out west, and I I met my wife there. And um, you know, I go there every year for New York Comic Con, and it's always such a a treat to be there. And honestly, um I I I I it would be a toss-up between like Patsy's Pizza Pizzeria over there, or or even like one of the dollar slice places, or any hole in the wall sushi place in in New York. Um, I I I I know it's blasphemy to say it living in Los Angeles, but like the the like a hole in the wall New York place like blows any sushi place in LA out of the water. Um and and so I would uh I I would I would do that in in an instant. I will say every time I go to New York, um, uh I get hole in the wall sushi um uh as my first meal uh as soon as I get to the hotel.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

So that's awesome. Uh I'm I'm upstate New York, so I'm it's easier for you to get to New York City than it is for me at this point. Um but uh I I do agree with you, just the random weird stuff you find in New York City. Yeah, love it. Um so final thing that I just want from you, David. Uh I just want you to take a moment. Let's have you promote the OZ, uh the Kickstarter. Uh tell us whatever we need to know about it.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

Yeah, as far as the OZ, like I said, you can get it on Kickstarter at tinyurl.com slash the OZ comic. Um uh you can get if you've missed out on the previous issues, you can get issues one through three um in print or digital. You can mix and match between all the variant covers as well if anything catches your eye. Um, we're in the middle of hitting our first stretch goal. Um, we are uh less than a thousand away from uh 20K, in which case we're gonna be adding 16 more pages to the book. So eight more story pages and eight more pinups. Um uh from a murderer's row of talent. Uh we've got Hannah Templer, Eisner and Ignat's uh award-winning author from um uh Cosmonites. Uh we've got uh Justin Mason from Spider-Man 2099, we've got Chris Evanhuis from G.I. Joe, we've got some uh up-and-coming talent like Tom Hoskinson and Devlin Baker, uh, you know, uh just to name a few. Um by the time that this uh goes live, we'll also have our special uh add-on bonus variant cover. Uh Skylar Patridge from Action Comics uh has our fifth and final variant uh for the series, which um will be included for free for the uh all four covers uh tier and the all 14 covers tier. Um so uh, or you can just add it on individually or uh buy it uh uh solo. Um all of my trades as well are available as individual add-on perks. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

I saw that one and I'm like, I am so tempted. I just don't have the shelf space right now.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

So yeah, I um uh so if you're interested in books like Spencer and Locke, if you're interested in my uh post-apocalyptic book Scouts Honor from Aftershock, um, or going to the chapel, my Die Hard Beats Wedding Crashers, all three of which are out of print. Um, I have copies. You can get those. You can get Devil the Wars in My Face, you can get my all ages book, Ten Ton Titan Terrier, uh, which is Pokemon Meets Pacific Rim. You can get all that. You can get Oh, nice. You can get uh all my Marvel work. Uh, we've got all those. We uh we've also got all my um cartoon books. Uh so both uh the first two volumes of Space Ghost, the first two volumes of Speed Racer, Captain Planet. Um you can get all those individually, or you can get them in bundled sets at a discount. Um but yeah, you know, I think um this issue is really fun. I mean, you know, I I I've I've probably glossed over kind of the plots a little bit, but um, you know, the the sort of the the the thrust of the OZ has been about Dorothy's quest to find the silver slippers, which um she's trying to stop them from being used to invade our world next by the iron-fisted tyrant of Oz, who um, as as we've revealed in our first issue, it's the scarecrow. Um and sort of he was the guy who had a brain, he had this sort of tactical genius. And um, you know, like many tyrants, sort of the the the more he, you know, the tighter he closed his fist, the more things, you know, slip through their fingers. And so he's a fun villain to write because he comes by it honestly. You know, he's the he didn't set out to become a villain, he's the product of a million compromises and failures and horrors, and he knows how far he's fallen. Um, but at the same time, sort of, you know, he is he's kind of like the worst case scenario of the critic turned pro, that he had a head full of theories and then the rubber met the road and most of them didn't pan out. And so now he's sort of turned Oz into this marauding war economy. You know, he's he's he's the strongman that so many people are attracted to in the in in this day and age. Um the one who, you know, the rules be damned as long as he maintains order and and gets some sort of material change done, even if it's just sort of uh, you know, oppressing the little guy. And um, so you know, at the same time, Scarecrow, I think, is sort of realizing that he's been boxed into a corner a little bit, that there's only so many outgroups that you can oppress. There's only so much territory in Oz that you can take over. And so he sees our world as sort of the expansion point. And um at the end of our previous issue, um, you know, this mission kind of went all the sideways. Dorothy and her crew of Yellowbrick Road Warriors, they've been locked in the scarecrow's dungeon, and one of the silver slippers has latched itself to Dorothy's foot. And so we open with this kind of battle of wills where Dorothy and the Scarecrow, you know, um, the scarecrow wants the boot. He can't kill Dorothy or it'll lose all the magic. So he's got to basically pressure her, you know, torture, hurting her friends. Um, you know, what kind of way can he get her will to break? And meanwhile, she's sort of, how can I hold on so I can get an edge so I can get out of here? And that'll culminate in this like kind of big, giant-sized battle, which is the reason we're adding eight more story pages. Um, is because I wanted to make sure that that thing had room to breathe. And so all of our characters get uh an important moment in this issue that everybody gets a sense of payoff, whether it's sort of a big, bombastic thing, or it's just small and personal and will hit you right in the heart. Um but yeah, you know, I I this book, I I'm glad that you enjoyed the preview because I I do think this is some of my best work. I I think it comes from me as sort of a younger scrappier writer. So there are certain there are certain quirks that I I see that I I might not do today, but it it is a reflection of who I was at that time as a writer. Revisiting this third issue, doing the lettering pass once the art finally came in with a more experienced hand. You know, it is it's like a time capsule, you know, of looking back to the writer I was in 2020 when I wrote all this. Um and finding ways to kind of do some nips and tucks, but still making it read consistently from what came before. But, you know, this is uh the product of a writer who had no idea what his future held, had no idea if he what he was doing in this. Uh again, a head full of theories, and let's see where the rubber meets the road and see what works out. I uh thankfully my career worked out a little bit better than the Scarecrows, but I think uh you know, I I I I I see this, and this was certainly it's it's it's I think a very pure sort of display of my writing. I think it's the one downside that you have as a professional comics writer, and it's something that you can't really get away with um uh you know, in terms of your career and and and living in this economy is um that was a book I wrote when I was only writing one book at once, you know, and and so you see, you know, that there are things that I was able to do because I that was all I had. Um and now, you know, it's sort of the day is always, you know, it's like I said at the beginning of the interview, you're juggling, you're juggling different projects, you know. Like I'm in the middle of writing three books right now and I'm about to add a fourth to my plate. Um, so that means that I write a script every week. Um, you know, and and so um, you know, you you you you make you you put in 110%, but just you know, the timing, like you you only have so much of it. The OZ was certainly a book where there was a lot more time. And because I was younger and a little bit more raw, I pushed those pages a lot harder than I necessarily would have today, in terms of just how much can I fit in a page and how much both in terms of the the panel count and the images, but also how much dialogue would I fit in there. Um, whereas I look at it today and and you'd be hard pressed to find a book of mine that I have more than five panels in a page. Um, you know, or or certainly, you know, um every once in a blue moon we do six. And even that, I always apologize to my artists now when I do that. I I I had no such compunction back in the time. Um, you know, and and and so um, but you look at it and and you see certain risks paying off that I might not take in the year 2026, that I might be a little bit more conservative, that I might sort of, you know, uh uh not not saying that I would play it safe in the writing, but just you know, giving my artists a little bit of a break. Ruben Rojas, an amazingly talented artist, and and and Whitney Kogar are exceptional colorists, you know, I threw everything at them. Um, you know, I there there are pages where there's a lot going on and they made it all work. And so I think the OZ is a really special book because I think um ultimately looking back on it, like it's a book that probably shouldn't have worked, but because of the magic of Ruben Rojas, and this is the reason why I waited five years since the last Kickstarter was because he's a one-of-a-kind talent and I wanted to see it through with him. And now that the book is 100% finished um and and and 100% funded, um, literally all we're doing now is we're just basically getting uh you know a print count. Um, we just are figuring out how much to how many issues to tell the printer to print, and then they will ship it to our fulfillment team at Laguna Studios. Um, so you don't have to worry about a guy writing four books and have having a baby on the way, uh, you know, packing and shipping your stuff. It's out of my hands. You don't have to worry about it. Um, so yeah, you know, I I think the OZ, it's one of the most beautiful books I've ever worked on. Um, I think it is some of my best work. I love Dorothy as a character. I think she kind of builds on that archetype that I started with Spencer and Locke, but does it in I think a much bigger sense of scale. And I think because of the real world inspiration that sort of filtered into her as a character, um, you know, she feels, I think, maybe like one of the more three-dimensional characters I've ever written. So um, I'm so thrilled that this book is out. And and, you know, there's a reason why I'm promoting this thing non-stop, is because I I believe in this book. I believed in this book so much that I self-published it, you know, um, and and and and and sort of took that leap of faith on Kickstarter to, you know, say, I think this will, you know, I believe in the story and the team enough, the readers will come. And they did, you know, they they they our first our our campaigns all funded um very early. Um, we've we've gotten overwhelming success uh in all three campaigns, even in given the economy and social media landscape that we have today. Um and uh yeah, you know, this book, you know, we won a Ringo Award for this book, which for a self-published book was was almost unheard of at the time. Um, and and yeah, you know, I mean, I even say, like, you know, I I've I've talked about it a little bit, you know, I've I have a baby on the way in like three weeks. And I can tell you, IVF baby, that wouldn't have happened if we hadn't done the OZ. I wouldn't have been able to afford it. Um, so this book really has had like not just a material difference in my career, you know, with with with the Ringo and helping get get me noticed at Marvel, but it's had like a profound difference on just the structure of my family. So I I I I owe our readers quite a lot. And that's the reason why we've been working tirelessly since the last campaign to see this one through. Um, and and and I'm so proud of the work. It is sort of uh you'll see it from beginning to end. It is cohesive, it is the same consistency across from from page one until the finale. So uh yeah, I can't wait for uh people to to to join us one more time in the occupied zone. This is our third and final issue, and I can't wait for people to see uh how we stick the landing.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

Well, I am dying to read it personally. Uh, even more so after that, uh, I think I'm also gonna be attacking on Spencer and Lock to my uh order. I don't remember exactly. I I know I did the catch-up tier, I don't remember what was all included in that, but you sold me on Spencer and Lock. I'm more excited for this than I think. Any other book left coming out at least this year? Uh no, this was awesome. There's so much I would just love to continue picking your brain, but I know we both have to get going a little bit soon. Um but yeah, uh David, thank you so much for coming on. Uh if you have any closing positive messages, anything you want to sign off with, go right ahead. The floor is yours. Other than that, everybody, have a great one. We're gonna have a link to the Kickstarter in the show notes. Not 100% sure what day this is going up. It'll probably be Monday or Wednesday next week. Um yeah, if you if you have any final messages, David, now's the time.

SPEAKER_00 58:26

Well, you know, I I I boy, where to where do I start? I mean, you know, there's I always there's there's always so much advice that I I try to give and all and and so many thoughts that I try to give. I mean, you know, there's the there's the aspiring creators, you know, of people who say, like, you know, this business seems so impenetrable to them. Um, and and the act of writing feels uh, you know, almost like mysticism. And I I always say, you know, um, start small, like this is this, this is not magic. This is like learning how to build a chair. So you know what a chair looks like, um, you know what the component parts are, but you can make them out of a variety of different shapes and colors and materials. Um, and so what I recommend is you start small. You you write a short script a day, keep it short, six to eight pages. It doesn't have to be good, it just has to be finished. Um, because you have to build a lot of crappy chairs before you build one that you can sit in. Um and then, you know, you have to build a lot more of that before you build a chair that you actually feel comfortable and sitting in, let alone a chair that you feel comfortable trying to sell and mass produce. Um so you know, there's that, there's uh also dessert first. Um, that's another uh rule that I always go for, is just because I read your book um sequentially doesn't mean you need to write it sequentially. You know, write the thing that's easiest, write the thing that's uh the the you know, bounce out of order, whatever's uh speaking to you. If you want to write a car chase, write the car chase, um, you know, uh, because then you don't have a blank page and then you learn pretty fast, okay, is there another scene that I'm interested in? Or is did I just want to write a car chase and that's all I got? Um, then you're not wasting time, but you also are building that momentum, which is crucial to sort of getting the finish line. Um, you know, I think, you know, uh in if you're a fan, you know, I think um, you know, I I I I I know things come in waves, you know. Um I I've had periods where I'm really vibing on a whole bunch of stuff that's coming out. I've had vi uh moments where I'm not vibing at all. And um, you know, I always say like there are there's a lot of comics, and both in the comic shop, but also as you see on Kickstarter, a lot of people, a lot of voices who, for whatever reason, haven't navigated the traditional publishing system and are able to sort of deliver these amazing comics to you straight from the creator. But um, you know, there's always something. Uh there's always something interesting. I know sometimes you have to go a little bit off the beaten path to find it, but there's there's there's there's always something there. Um, but uh yeah, you know, I think um read adventurously. That's that's uh sort of my advice and my request. Um, because I I I love writing for the big two. Uh, you know, it's it's it's been a dream to write characters that I grew up with, like Spider-Man or The Avengers or the Fantastic Four or The Guardians of the Galaxy. And um, I think that's sort of the foundation of what today's direct market rests upon. But there's so much more than that. And I think, you know, um, in the same way that you wouldn't want to just eat one meal uh for the you know every day for the rest of your life, varying things up often makes you appreciate everything a little bit more. So um, you know, check out books uh off the beaten path. Heck, check out mine. Uh, you know, uh you can uh go to the OZ's Kickstarter page right now, tinyurl.com slash the O Z comic. Um and uh yeah, I promise you, um, you'll find something on this page of mine that you'll like. Um and so I I I hope uh we get to bring you on board and um uh hopefully make you a fan for life.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Well, David, thank you so much. Uh I encourage everyone out there at least check out the Kickstarter. The preview pages, there's a lot of preview pages out there. Uh it's it's worth your time at least checking out. Uh, you can't go wrong with something with David's name on there. There's something out there for you. Uh he he is the Baskin Robbins of comics creators. He said it himself. You heard him. He's Baskin Robbins.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:18

Uh well, no, thank you, thank you so much for having me. And and and and and thank you for letting me kind of um just you know uh blabber uh about comics. But this I love this. This is my passion. You know, I I uh I I live and breathe and eat and sleep this stuff. Um you know, I I I I say that this is my astronaut job. And while I've had challenging days in this business, I don't think I've ever had a bad day in this business. And and I'm always just so grateful to all the the the the the retailers and fans and press and and editors and fellow creators who, you know, uh have really kind of championed me every step of the way over the last 10 years. And it it means the world to me um to be a part of this community and to be able to do what I do. And um, I wouldn't be able to do it without all those people. So that's what uh gets me motivated and gets me trying to deliver my AM every day.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

All right. Well, David, thank you again so much. We're gonna wrap it up here, everyone. Uh, hopefully we can get David back on for another like 12 hours sometime later this year. Uh I wish you the best of luck with the Kickstarter. I wish you the best of luck with all your other projects and with the newborn coming the way. That takes up a lot of time, from what I understand.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

So you know, it's gonna be my longest ongoing, I hope. So uh yes. Um well, thank you so much for having me, and thanks uh everybody for watching.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

All right, thank you so much. We'll see you next week, guys. Well, guys, thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get a hold of me through email, I'm at comicbooksbeyond at gmail.com, and I'm at comic books beyond on Blue Sky, Instagram, TikTok, and we're also on YouTube. Some of the podcasts are going to go there, but we're also working on some extra content for YouTube as well. I'd like to give a thank you to the crew of the Talking Comic Books podcast, Brad and Lease of Comic Book Couples Counseling, Alex Jaffe, Jeremy Whitley, Bran McNulty, Jimmy Gasparo and the crew of Comic Book Yeti, and John Klein III of Shadowflame with Magic. Most importantly, I'd like to thank all of our listeners and supporters. Be good to each other out there and take care of your people. We'll see you next time.