A World at War with Itself
The podcast will be for a year, where Julie Finch-Scally, writer and broadcaster can interview people about life and the current situation of the world. She will discuss how so many things have changed over the past 80 years since her birth, and what the world needs to change to improve and save the planet from ourselves.
A World at War with Itself
Bicycle Riding
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We all rode bikes as a child, but as an adult? Julie speaks with Paul and Alan who tell her about their lives with a bicycle.
Hello again, Julie Finchcally with another episode of A World of War with Itself. Today I am continuing with the category of health, but I am talking to Paul and Alan about riding a bicycle and its benefits. First up, I'm speaking with Paul, who rides his bike everywhere. My first question was, Did you ride a bike as a child?
SPEAKER_01Yes, I did. I got my first bike when I was about five years old, and I rode bikes all the way through my childhood, really.
SPEAKER_02Was it to join in with other boys or just because you liked the idea of riding a bike?
SPEAKER_01Well, it was kind of something that everyone seemed to do. So I suppose my peer group at school, it was expected that everyone would know how to ride a bike and everyone would have a bike and to become a source of social engagement with the other kids riding your bikes around.
SPEAKER_02As you got older, did you give up bike riding?
SPEAKER_01I rode my bike regularly all the way through sort of school in in uni, but then I got my driver's license. And yeah, there were quite a few years there where I didn't ride a bike anymore.
SPEAKER_02And what made you take it up again?
SPEAKER_01Well, it was probably for recreational purposes, because when I got to round about the 1980s and mountain bikes started to coming in and they sounded like a lot of fun. So I got a mountain bike and I started riding recreationally, and then as time went on, I also got a bike to ride on the road and I started to ride again to and from work.
SPEAKER_02So you've been doing that ever since?
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, for at least the last 35 years or so.
SPEAKER_02That's a long time to be riding a bike. Do you think it improved your health? Or is that something that never crossed your mind?
SPEAKER_01No, it it really does. And and when I started riding more regularly again as an adult, I was pretty young, and you know you can get away with anything back then. But as time went on, it made me realise how important it was for my health. So both in terms of physical health, but also if I'd been in a busy day at work and it was really stressful, and I'd get on my bike and I'd ride home, and by the time I got home it had cleared out all the gunk of the day. It sort of kind of improved my mental status as well as being good for fitness.
SPEAKER_02That's interesting, isn't it? Because I would imagine most people wouldn't think that would happen when you ride your bike. Why do you think it cleared your head?
SPEAKER_01I guess I really enjoy the process of riding a bike. It's lovely being out in the air riding, and that's really nice in the fresh air. I looked it up and I wondered myself why. And when you do exercise, you release endorphins, which are things make you feel better. So I think it was a combination of all of those things. And also if there was something that was kind of circling in my brain, a difficult issue from work that day, by the time I'd ridden my bike and probably pedaled a bit harder than usual if I was feeling stressed, it had worked its way out by the time I got home.
SPEAKER_02How much do you enjoy being out on your bike at the moment?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I really enjoy it. It's a really fabulous thing to do. I live in the wonderful town of Canberra, and it's really well served with bike paths. It's a beautiful environment to ride in. There's lovely scenery everywhere. More often than not, the weather's dry. It's just a really wonderful feeling to be out on a bike, I think.
SPEAKER_02You've mentioned indoor fiends. Do you get that every time you go out on the bike or not?
SPEAKER_01Well, I certainly feel good when I go out on a bike. Interesting you should ask about that because today here in Canberra it's actually very cold and a bit drizzly. And I was a little bit more trepidatious than usual about getting on my bike. But having got on my bike to ride in to meet with you, Julie, I felt really good. It made me feel really good about it. I started off thinking, oh, it's a bit cold, and then got into it ten minutes later, it was feeling really good.
SPEAKER_02I'm always amazed at bike riders on the road. Do you ever get scared with all the traffic whizzing around you and past you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, certainly. There are occasions when I have been afraid and occasions when cars have cut me off or nearly knocked me off my bike. I have been knocked off my bike a couple of times over the years by cars, or in one case is by a bus. I try to be as aware as I can of traffic and where possible not ride on the main roads, ride on bike paths and or back roads. Back streets. Back streets, if that's if that's at all feasible.
SPEAKER_02Why do you choose to ride your bike when you could use your car?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think it's for all of those reasons. I'm in my 60s now, so like maintaining health is an important consideration, and it always has been. So there's that side of it, just staying physically fit, and also just as I said before, I really enjoy bike riding. It makes me feel good, improves my mood. And most of the time, if there's not a reason to get in the car, like I've got to bring a big load of shopping home from the supermarket, I think I'd actually rather get on my bike and ride to a destination.
SPEAKER_02When you're driving your car, do you notice bike riders or do you feel they don't stand out amongst the traffic?
SPEAKER_01Well, I probably am tuned into where they are as a bike rider myself. I do notice that some of them are harder to see than others, depending on whether they've got lights on at night or the clothes that they wear whilst they're riding. And I think some of them probably should wear something a little brighter or certainly have their lights on, because it can be quite dangerous if you're a bike rider and you're, you know, wearing dark clothes at the time.
SPEAKER_02Well, that was my next question, because my observations are that most bike riders seem to wear black. Not a good choice when it's dark or wet. Do you think there is a reason why bike riders don't wear a day globe vest or something similar so they can easily be seen?
SPEAKER_01I'm not really sure because they're very easy to get. Uh the one I wear costs about 20 bucks online, but it's very bright, it's see it from a mile off, and it's very light, so it doesn't make you hot. So I actually don't understand that. Seems to me that people possibly aren't aware of the danger that they might be in themselves riding.
SPEAKER_02I've often wondered that myself.
SPEAKER_01They might just be unaware. I can't imagine that they're willfully trying to make themselves more easy to hit or something, but no, it does uh amuse me.
SPEAKER_02Do you think it should be made mandatory that all bike riders wear something like a Day Glow vest?
SPEAKER_01There was that issue about helmets and they became mandatory. There's certainly mandatory requirements for bikes, so they've got to have reflectors on them. I think it's probably reasonable that it should be expected that a rider has something like that on. I don't know whether it's feasible to to mandate it. At least in education programmes, it would be good to encourage people to wear uh bright things. And even if it's an issue of fashion, possibly might be for some people, I'm not sure. But possibly there are uh ways of adding uh reflective things to people's clothes so they don't feel like they're daggy or something.
SPEAKER_02I do have another question.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I see lots of bike riders using pedestrian crossings to cross the road and also using the footpaths. I know there are places where they don't have bike lanes, but do you think they should stay on the road or do you think it's okay for them to drive around where the pedestrians are?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, interesting that because the rules are different in different jurisdictions. In the ACT it's it's perfectly legal to ride on a footpath or a pedestrian crossing. But it's always about having regard to other users, and you also have to give priority to pedestrian. I've also noticed that it's easy for cars not to see bikes if they suddenly shoot out onto a pedestrian crossing even though they've got right of way. Sometimes the cars don't see them. So I think it's actually quite useful in a place where there are busy roads, and in some places in Canberra, there are busy roads and there are no bike paths, and I think that's fair enough. I think that for their own safety, cyclists should try their best to keep their eye out for whoever else is using that crossing or that footpath, and they should very much be aware of pedestrians and give them priority because I think the law requires them to, and it's just common sense.
SPEAKER_02And finally, do you think there will come a time when you will give up riding?
SPEAKER_01I seriously hope not. My legs are still going well enough to ride an ordinary bike. I guess if they get a bit weaker as time goes on, maybe I'll get an e-bike. I'm not sure. I'd certainly like to be riding my bike for as long as I possibly can.
SPEAKER_02That's a lovely idea, and I hope it happens.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, Julie.
SPEAKER_02My second discussion is with Alan, who joined a club and trained to race on his bicycle. My first question to Alan was, When did you start riding a bike?
SPEAKER_00I rode as a kid, but more seriously in my early mid-twenties.
SPEAKER_02Did you find it exhilarating?
SPEAKER_00Yes, because I was racing also at the time. So I was training in racing and um meeting new people. Racing where? Uh on the north shore of Sydney mostly, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And was it with a group or a uh a club or something?
SPEAKER_00Club.
SPEAKER_02And did you find that fun?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, hard, but it was more fun when I won, but there were very few occasions.
SPEAKER_02Do you prefer riding alone or with others?
SPEAKER_00I like both. So it depends on on the others. If they're experienced, it's good. If they're not so experienced, it's not so good.
SPEAKER_02You have taken your bike and ridden around several countries in Europe. Why did you decide to do that? And have you ridden in any other countries?
SPEAKER_00I'll approach the second part first. I've ridden in New Zealand and America, the US, but I've ridden in Europe several times. The first time why'd I go was I was going to do an ultra endurance event and the best way to train was to simply go cycle touring in Europe. So rode through about half a dozen countries in six weeks.
SPEAKER_02Which one did you prefer?
SPEAKER_00Oh, France.
SPEAKER_02Why?
SPEAKER_00Everything is set up for you, essentially. There's a village every five, ten, or fifteen kilometres, and every village has a patisserie and a cafe, and the food is good. Uh you don't have to look for hotels. Generally they're on route. There's lots of little hotels in the smaller towns. The drivers are good. There are plenty of cycle paths as well if you find them. So it it all works for you.
SPEAKER_02What's the cycle path?
SPEAKER_00What's a cycle path? It's a path exclusively for.
SPEAKER_02I know, but I realise that. But is it dirt road or not?
SPEAKER_00No, most most most of them are sealed. Sometimes you you get gravel but in good condition. I recently rode on a path I'd ridden on a few years ago and noticed that it had actually been improved from gravel to being sealed. So they're still doing work and you still see teams of people on the cycle paths working away, improving them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Do you think that's because there's more people now riding bikes?
SPEAKER_00Maybe. I don't know. But what I do know is the French spend a lot of time and energy on paths and things like that, maintaining them, pruning the hedges on either side. You see big tractors with attachments pruning away. You also see a lot more people cycling in France than say in Italy. Uh I was also recently in Italy and we saw maybe six or eight people in five weeks. You can see that on a cycle path in France in one day. In Tuscany uh cycling is popular, so you see more people there on the Adriatic and in the mountains.
SPEAKER_02When you ride a bike, you have to personally carry everything. Is that a problem or do you even feel it improves your stamina?
SPEAKER_00You don't have to carry everything. You can go on cycle tours where they carry most of your stuff for you, but I carry my stuff. That leads to greater independence and the ability to stop and start wherever you want. Does it improve your stamina? Yes, it does, but you've got to do the distances as well. You're not going to improve your stamina if you cycle village to village 15 kilometres each day. I've done days like that.
SPEAKER_02That was too much the day before.
SPEAKER_00Or you find somewhere really, really pretty and you think I want to spend more time here. So you spend the afternoon walking around, or firstly you sort out your accommodation and you spend the afternoon walking around and and maybe you buy a ticket for the next day. There's a beautiful chateau or museum that you want to see, or one of these places you'd never heard of that's worth staying. Or the weather's bad. Too hot, too cold, too wet, all of those things. So you put your feet up and enjoy the the time off.
SPEAKER_02If I asked you how you felt when you're on those riding trips, would you say you felt healthier?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you do. You're getting fresh air and exercise, so yeah, you you feel healthier and more relaxed because you don't have the tensions that you normally have at home. Your biggest problem is what am I going to eat next and where?
SPEAKER_02Is riding in Europe different to riding, say, here in Australia? And then I'm thinking more in the line of pollution.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it is different. Pollution is less because you're on smaller roads. There are more roads. This is in Europe, I presume, yes. Certainly in France, sometimes in Italy, most of the time in Italy, sometimes all the roads converge in Italy and cycling along a cliff or something like that, and there's more traffic. For the most part, yes, because you're out in the fresh air and in the countryside and there's more roads. In Australia you're often riding on a big road because there aren't any more. There aren't any others.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they don't have riding tracks the same way as they do in Europe. No.
SPEAKER_00Australia. Yeah. Yeah. And less roads.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Less choice and therefore you're often on busier roads.
SPEAKER_02Do you still ride or do you just ride for pleasure or do you still take trips?
SPEAKER_00I haven't taken any trips for three years now. I'd like to. So yes. I would like to ride for pleasure and for trips to take more trips overseas.
SPEAKER_02And you say that they have special organisations that that run trips so that they can take your baggage and stuff with them and even supply your bike if you want.
SPEAKER_00Really? Yeah. I've got a friend that went to Europe and hired a bike for a week. She was already in Europe, so it wasn't an organized ride, but it was organized in that they dropped off a bike and all the equipment she needed in one location and picked up about a week later in another location.
SPEAKER_02Like a hire car, but it's a higher bike.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean it's interesting. Do they go because they enjoy riding or do they do it because that's a good way to have a a break on a holiday?
SPEAKER_00I think you have to enjoy riding. You can do organised tours of say Tuscany where you spend six days or eight days or something riding around Tuscany, which can be lovely. And it can be good because they organise your accommodation and places to go for lunch and things like that that may not be available to a traveller by themselves or you might not find those places. So they can be good like that. You can also meet people. And they've got electric bikes often to hire, yeah. So you can do it easier. So if you're not that fit, but uh the their ambitious distances you can still manage as long as you're not.
SPEAKER_02That's really not exercises. I always thought you rode a bike so you could get the exercise.
SPEAKER_00I taper the distances I do to how fit I am. So the last trip I I was quite fit and was quite happy doing 100 kilometres in a day. Other trips we've started out at twenty kilometers a day and built up to uh sixty or seventy or eighty.
SPEAKER_02That shows obviously your health improves as you keep riding the more you do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Over five weeks or so, six weeks. Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_02Do you feel it's safer here or overseas on the roads?
SPEAKER_00Overseas.
SPEAKER_02Why? Because that they cater more for bikes?
SPEAKER_00Partly, but also people are more considerate of bikes. I was in Lucca in Italy, and an American lady ran a bike store there, and she said they're also quite worried about being sued in Italy. I don't know that that's the case everywhere. What that leads to is they often give you a wide berth. It's rare that you feel endangered that people are too close. It happens, but not very often. Whereas in Australia, if especially in the cities, it's a regular occurrence. Even though there's a one metre rule or one and a half metres over sixty kilometres, people are still on occasion closer than you'd like them to be.
SPEAKER_02Do you consider your days of being a bike rider are over?
SPEAKER_00No, not at all.
SPEAKER_02So you're planning new ones?
SPEAKER_00Planning new ones or going back to old countries and seeing new areas such as France and Italy. Spain I'd like to go to and and Japan.
SPEAKER_02There's a whole lot of mountains in Spain.
SPEAKER_00And there's a whole lot of flat areas too. Let's not forget those. Mountains don't worry me. Take your time and electric bikes I consider have extended my years of cycling uh once I give up non-electric bike by ten years. Uh I met an eighty-year-old man in Italy last time I was there. He was with a younger wife and she was planning other trips, but he was saying, Oh, this might be my last one. So but at eighty he was still pretty good.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, I hope So the exercise on the bike still keeps you supple and with it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think for exercise.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Such as walking, a gentle exercise. Cycling is fairly gentle. And of course it it's only as difficult as you want to make it. You don't have to charge up a mountain at Tour de France speeds. You you can get lower gears. I say you want one gear lower than you think you need. And take your time and stop along the way and just enjoy the trip. Enjoy the trip.
SPEAKER_02And would you miss it if you thought that you wouldn't be able to go out bike riding again?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I would. If I thought I couldn't go again, yeah. I haven't been doing a lot of riding since my last trip, but And how long ago was that? Three years. I keep thinking about getting out on the bike. Of course this time of year it's not so conducive. I'd like to.
SPEAKER_02Now what time of year would you choose?
SPEAKER_00In Europe?
SPEAKER_02In Europe, yes. I'm saying that because now the tourism is horrendous over there.
SPEAKER_00Well that's the other thing about cycling is you get to go to lots of small villages that no one ever goes to and they never see a tourist. So yeah. Because they're just en route. They're just in the middle of nowhere and people don't stop there. They don't take a due tour to go there as a rule. So you often end up in little places that people are quite interested in what you're doing and where you're going and where you've been and where you're from. What time of year? Well, with the heat waves there in Europe now, I'd I'd suggest summer probably isn't the time to go mid-June or or something like that till end of August. September, October. Italy you can stretch that into November. But I was in England in late May and June, it was quite hot.
SPEAKER_02Things are changing over there late.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I th uh these days I I I tend to think you want to be there in the spring and and the autumn, not.
SPEAKER_02Would you ever uh do a trip around the world if you could?
SPEAKER_00I used to dream about it years ago as uh twenty something, thirty something. These days no. I I'm getting less adventurous as I get older, less interested in adventure touring and more interested in going to easy places like France and Italy where where you know you can get food and drink and you're not gonna be fixing things on the side of the road by yourself because you're three hundred kilometres away from the next place that could fix your bike.
SPEAKER_02So to finish up, you'd say if you were gonna go and travel, you make sure you go somewhere where it's easier for you to cover the costs and cover the bike repairs and everything else like that.
SPEAKER_00Would I go to Patagonia? No. Would I go to the south of France? Yes. It's easier.
SPEAKER_02And you like the food.
SPEAKER_00And I like the food and the people are generally nice.
SPEAKER_02I do hope you found those discussions interesting and a possible way of having fun while keeping yourself healthy. My thanks to Paul and Alan for coming to the studio to talk with me. And that's it for this week. I will be back again next Wednesday, still with the category of health. But until then, this is Julie Vinch Scalli from a world at war with itself saying goodbye.