For Laci: The Story, The Trial, The Questions That Remain

Twenty‑seven‑year‑old Laci Peterson was eight months pregnant when she vanished on Christmas Eve 2002. What followed became one of the most polarizing and emotionally charged cases in modern American true crime.This series goes far beyond the headlines. We explore who Laci truly was—her childhood, her dreams, her marriage, and the life she was preparing to build for her son, Conner. We revisit the frantic search, the media storm, the discovery in the San Francisco Bay, and the trial that ended with Scott Peterson convicted of double homicide.We also examine the years that followed: Sharon Rocha’s heartbreaking book For Laci, the overturned death sentence, the new legal battles, and the Los Angeles Innocence Project’s ongoing review of the case. And in 2026, defense attorney Mark Geragos returns to the spotlight at CrimeCon to argue why he believes the justice system got it wrong.Two decades later, the Peterson case still divides the country. This podcast asks the hardest questions: What happened to Laci and Conner? What do we know? What do we think we know? And why does this case still haunt us?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Hey guys, happy Friday. This is True Crime with Tiff Klein giving criminals the disrespect they deserve. And tonight, we're gonna give, and I quote Nancy Grace, a piece of crap. He is Scott Peterson. He's the criminal that we're disrespecting tonight because I am going to go over a case about Lacy Peterson. A case that happened in 2002, one that I followed closely inside and out, just like I did John Bonet, just like Gabby Petito, and it's one that stayed near and dear to my heart throughout my entire life. It's when I learned who Nancy Grace was and followed her since. And when I got to meet her last year, I told her that. And her eyes got really big, like, wow, you've been following me that long. And I said, Yeah, since Lacey's case. And she says, Man, what a piece of crap that guy is. So my technology this week has not been nice to me. So this is why my podcast took forever to come out this week. But there's always been something about Lacey. And I've been having problems with my technology all week, like I said. And today I was finally able to get it to work. I don't know if it's my headphones, my mic, but something was whacked. And my brother has a degree in music technology, Hunter. Today's his birthday. My baby brother turned 24 and he couldn't figure it out. So all of a sudden, magically, it starts working. And I'm I'm doing my notes for this. And I pull out the book that Lacey's mom wrote for her, and it's called For Lacey: A Mother's Story of Love, Loss, and Justice, the Sharon Rocha book. And I remembered because I was reminded in the book that Lacey's birthday is May 4th. And I find that very cool, endearing, and weird at the same time because my podcast didn't want to work all week. And I originally wasn't going to do Lacey. I was going to talk about some other stuff, but I kept saying, do one on Lacey. And I know this case has been covered so many times, but listen, beautiful girl. You know, Scott's been in the news lately. So I thought this would be a good one. And then all of a sudden, my mic wants to work. So um this is for Lacey. This podcast is for Lacey because all of a sudden everything wants to work. And her birthday's May 4th. And she was just so beautiful. Beautiful. And I always said if I had a little girl, I would have named her Lacey. I always loved that name because of her. And she was just radiant. I never wanted kids, but I always said if I did, and I had a girl, her name would be Lacey after Lacey Peterson. And that was probably one of the best books I've ever read in my entire life. You guys know I like nonfiction books and autobiographies, biographies, and this was amazing because Sharon gave us an inside look at who Lacey was, not what the tabloids and media put her out to be, which they didn't really make it her out to be bad, but we got to see a little bit more inside of Lacey's heart and who she was as a person, not a headline. And I think that's very important to keep in mind because I know all of us in True Crime that do podcasts and speak this, that, and the other, we understand that we don't do this for entertainment. We don't watch true crime with a bucket of popcorn for entertainment. A lot of us have been through a lot of trauma and tragedy. And we follow true crime because we try to figure out someone's mind. We try to figure out what the fuck goes through someone's head to do what they do. And you can't wrap your head around it. No rational, normal, healthy, you know, mentally good person, that's not insane, cannot wrap their head around the actions of some other people. And you sit back and you you empathize with the family and you want to just go through the TV and hug them and hold them and you cry with them. You know, when Gabby went missing and I would watch Nikki cry on TV, I would cry too. It's just who I am. But Lacey was just stunning. And again, if you haven't read this book for Lacey, I'd highly encourage it. And I would love to meet Sharon. I would just want to give her a hug. I really don't have anything to say. I just want to hug her. So this podcast is for Lacey. It's happy birthday on May 4th, Lacey. God, she was gorgeous. So for some of the younger generations, they might not know who Lacey is. And again, I know this story has been covered since 2002, but some people don't know about it. And some people forgot about it, and some people can't remember it all. And um, I know this one inside and out, like I do Gabby Petito and John Bennet and Shenan Watts. But this one, I think, was the first case I would because I was I was in eighth or ninth grade when it happened, and I was old enough to really understand it now. And I really just invested in I watched it with my grandma, and that again, that's when I first saw Nancy Grace, and I followed her since. And uh it's just it's heartbreaking because she was such a beautiful person inside and out. And I want to just give you a little inside tidbit on the book that her mom wrote for Lacey, literally called for Lacey, and she wrote some parts in it from Lacey's diary about being able to feel Connor move in her stomach and felt the flutters and how excited she was. And she was so happy. She just wanted to be such a good mom and nest and take care of everybody. And she was the person that brought centerpieces to dinner. Okay. So she was the one that remembered everybody's smallest details but made them the biggest thing for them. And she just she really wanted Connor more than anything in the world. And unfortunately, he passed away with her, and she did not get to see her baby born. This case upsets me. So if I get quiet or choke up, that's why. So in this book, pulled from her diary, she writes, Well, it's official. I am with child. Today, Scott and I had our first sonogram. The baby looked like a peanut, so small with a strong heartbeat, and very active. He or she rolled over, kicked its arms and legs. I didn't realize a baby at 10 weeks would be so developed. My true feelings would be excitement and relief. I can't wait for the changes to come. That's what she was looking forward to. And she documented her pregnancy. July of 2002. Today I realized I can no longer fit in a pair of pants that I love. My tummy's getting bigger, and I have a hard time sucking it in. I'm still really sleepy, but my headaches aren't as bad. I had to buy a new bra this week, and I know a new wardrobe is on its way sooner than I thought. She read all the time. August 15th, 2002. On my way to the mall I had a big sneeze. And a few seconds later I felt something that I had been waiting for. I felt the baby move. It was a small flutter on the right side of my stomach. I had been reading about what the first movements would feel like, but I didn't expect it so soon. I am only 14 weeks pregnant, but my body is starting to show signs that I am pregnant to everyone else. August 20th, 2002. We heard the baby's heartbeat today. The doctor had to chase the baby around with the machine, but she finally quartered him or her. The heartbeat was strong and loud. It's amazing to have living human inside of me. I can't wait to meet them. So that's just a little background on how she felt about being pregnant. And unfortunately, Lacey was murdered at eight months pregnant and never got to see or meet her son. Lacey was a 27-year-old woman from Modesto, California. Before she became a headline, she was a daughter, a sister, a friend, a wife, and an expectant mother. She was born Lacey Denise Rocha, born May 4th, 1975 in Modesto. Her parents were Sharon and Dennis Rocha, but her mom remarried later to Ron. Lacey grew up in a very close family. She loved gardening. She loved sunflowers, animals, and helping out her parents outside. And she was very known for her social nurturing heart. She was the one who remembered everyone's birthday. Lacey grew up in California's Central Valley, surrounded by fields, family, responsibility, and she was the kind of person who brought centerpieces to dinner, who showed up early to help clean, who made holidays feel like holidays. She did have a boyfriend she thought she'd be with forever. She went off to college and met Scott. So Lacey attended California Polytechnic State University, known as Cal Poly. She met Scott while both were in college and they married in 1997. Now Scott was a hell of a good-looking guy. I'm not gonna lie. Like, I think he was hot back in his day. Um unfortunately, he he became a piece of shit, so he's no longer hot and he did not age well, but who does in prison? They eventually settled in Modesto, where Scott worked in fertilizer sales, and Lacey was a substitute teacher and homemaker. When she met charming, ambitious Scott Peterson, her classmate, they built a life that went from the outside looked like the American dream. They had the starter home plans and a baby on the way. Lacey was about eight months pregnant with a boy they planned to name Connor. She was reportedly so excited about motherhood, decorating the nursery and preparing Christmas with family. But by December of 2002, Lacey was 27, eight months pregnant, and counting down the days until she would meet her son. She had wrapped presents, baked, and planned Christmas Eve dinner. It was supposed to be their last holiday as a family of two. Going back to the book that her mother wrote in 2005, she mentions Lacey's childhood. The day Lacey went missing in the search, the trial and aftermath, and deeply personal, grief-driven, but focused on justice and victim-centered narrative. And the reason why I suggest this book so much is because, like I said, she goes into the who Lacey was and gave us her pers her perspective as a mother of a missing pregnant daughter and the grief that came with her and the fight that she had that she never gave up and didn't sleep for days, weeks, got depressed, and did everything she needed to do to bring her daughter justice. It's an amazing book. She did something unimaginably hard, and she wrote a book about her daughter's life and death. It's not a legal brief, it's a mother's attempt to hold on to her child in the only way she could through story. She gives detailed recollections of Lacey's personality, kindness, and quirks. I learned so much about Lacey when I read this book. Um, it was amazing because you see what you see on the headlines, but then you read a book knowing, finding out that her favorite flower was sunflower, and she loved gardening, and she liked dragonflies, and she loved to write in her journal, and she just liked decorating. I know she roller skated and just had fun, you know. She laughed and she just couldn't wait to be a mom. And it's so sad because she probably would have been one of the best mothers. So she went missing on Christmas Eve 2002, and Scott was the first to say that she was missing. In the book, her mom writes about the moment she realized her son-in-law had been lying, not just about where he went that morning, but about who he really was. And it's a record of grief, right? So it's also a record of resolve. And she fought like hell to make sure Lacey and Connor didn't become a case number. So on December 24th, 2002, Lacey disappears. Scott says he left home that morning to go fishing at the Berkeley Marina. Lacey, he claims, planned to walk the dog and prepare for a family dinner. A neighbor finds the Pearson's dog, Mackenzie, wandering with a leash on and they return the dog to the yard. Later that evening, Lacey's reported missing when she doesn't show up for the planned family events. On Christmas Eve, 2002, Lacey's life abruptly stops. Her dog is found wandering alone, leash still attached. Her car is in the driveway, but Lacey and her unborn son are gone. Late December of 2002 to early January 2003, the search and media by storm. Massive search efforts in Modesto and surrounding areas, community volunteers, flyers, press conferences. Scott appeared in front of the camera, but his behavior drew a lot of scrutiny. It became national news. Cameras captured candlelight vigils, missing posters, and a husband who, to many, seemed strangely detached. Early January 2003, Amber Fry comes forward. Amber Fry, a massage therapist from Fresno, contacts the police. She reveals she had been dating Scott, who told her he was single and that his wife had died. She agrees to cooperate with law enforcement, recording phone calls with Scott. Then, her voice enters Amber Fry. She tells detectives she's been seeing Scott Peterson and that he told her he had lost his wife before Lacey ever went missing. At this point, between January and March 2003, suspicion intensifies. Public opinion begins to turn sharply against Scott, and the media coverage focuses on the affair, Scott's inconsistencies in his trip to the Berkeley Marina. Police continue to surveil Scott and search the San Francisco Bay. Between April 13th and April 14th, 2003, the body of a fetus, later identified as Connor, washes ashore near the San Francisco Bay. April 14th, the next day, 2003, the decomposed female body, later identified as Lacey, was found nearby. Nearly four months after Lacey vanished, the bay gives up its secrets. First, the remains of a baby boy. Then the body of a woman, the body of Lacey. DNA confirmed what everyone feared, Lacey and Connor are dead. April 8, 2003, Scott Peterson is arrested in San Diego. He's dyed his hair, bleach blonde, large amounts of cash, and multiple cell phones, items that prosecutors later argue suggest he was preparing to flee. When police arrest Scott, he's hundreds of miles from home, near the Mexican border. In his car, he had cash, camping gear, and a new look. Prosecutors will say he was running, but his defense will say he was scared. Now, his trial lawyer, criminal defense lawyer, Mark Garagos, you might know him from defending Lyle and Eric Menendez. And when he was in Crimecon in Nashville two years ago, Lyle actually called him while he was doing a live QA on stage. Mark is coming back to CrimeCon this year. And this year, he's presenting evidence that Scott is not guilty. But wait, there's more. Two days ago, a judge denied the evidence that Scott wanted to bring forward to show that he is not guilty. Denied. Thank you to that judge. Dear God, thank you. However, at CrimeCon, I plan to sit in on this session because I want to hear what he has to say. I want to hear this so-called evidence that they have with the Innocence Project that, you know, there's the LA Innocence Project and there's the Innocence Project. While his sister-in-law, who everybody knows is obsessed with him and we all think she's in love with him, goes to law school to prove his innocence and becomes a lawyer. And she has been fighting to get him justice. Fuck Lacey, though. You know. Always worried about Scott. She denies up and down that he did anything, and she is in a world of denial that angers me. But I'm going to sit in on this session and listen to what he has to say. And just wait. Because I know the people in the audience are going to have questions. And I can't wait. And I secretly hope Nancy Grace hides in the back with a microphone. And at the end, she asks her questions and she becomes the prosecutor we all love. She slams him, rips him, embarrasses him, shuts him up. We know how much she hates Scott. She hates Scott Peterson as much as she hates top mom Casey Anthony. If you've ever seen her go off on a tangent about Casey Anthony, Scott Peterson's just as bad. And it's not, it wouldn't be the first time that she ripped into Mark Garagos. So I'm just gonna say that. I would love for her to sneak in on that QA and just destroy him. Like I just would love it. But I will listen and prove me wrong. Prove the world wrong because he can't. Shake the magic gate ball, people. All signs point to yes. You'll never convince me that Scott didn't do this. I I don't I'm not a crime scene investigator, but I'm not dumb. And he did it million percent. There's just no anyway. He was hundreds of miles from home, like I said, near the Mexican border, and his car was full of cash, camping gear, and he dyed his hair, he had a goatee, and he was like trying to still lie to people and still lying to Amber, still lying to Lacey's parents. In 2004, there was a trial which was held in Redwood City, California, but the venue moved due to pretrial publicity. So there was a prosecution theory that Scott killed Lacey at home, likely on the night of December 23rd or early December 24th, but then he transferred her body to the Berkeley Marina and dumped her in the bay, later returning there to establish an alibi. Scott's fishing trip and his presence at the marina gave forensic evidence related to the boat and anchors. Amber Fry's testimony and recorded calls showing Scott's lies and apparent lack of concern for his missing wife. His behavior after Lacey's disappearance, having an affair, his demeanor, alleged plans to move, did not sit well with the public. The defense strategy from Mark Garagos argued that there is no direct physical evidence tying Scott to the murders. He has a boat that no one knew about. They found her hair in the boat. He made castings of cement that they say were anchored to her. He lied about an affair, dyed his hair, tried to flee, told his mistress that his wife had died before she ever even went missing, didn't want a baby, then all of a sudden changed his mind, and then was with Amber and then didn't want to be with Lacey. You go fishing on Christmas Eve morning when it's freezing. But that morning, he changed, he had changed his story because originally he said that he was gonna go fishing, but it was too cold. So instead, or not fishing, golfing, so instead you go fishing on the water with wind at the Berkeley Marina because it's too cold to golf, but it's okay to go out in the water in the morning when it's cold with wind. Okay, that makes sense. Um, but they found cement castings that he made in buckets in his where he kept the boat, and nobody knew that he had a boat. And they claim that he used those to anchor her body into the water because when Lacey was found, she wasn't fully intact. Some limbs were missing. They found a torso, which the weights could have pulled her limbs off. And I'm really trying not to get too graphic, but I'm trying to explain why they think those forecastings were done in that garage. So that's one of the theories on what happened to her. But he was arguing that there's no direct physical evidence. Excuse me. I guess we're all dumb. He suggested that Lacey may have been abducted and killed by an unknown perpetrator. Now, we do know that the neighbors across the street were robbed. Around the same, I think it was the same morning Lacey went missing. And that's what they're trying to pin it on. They're trying to say that those guys murdered Lacey and some other woman went missing, which I did see a documentary on. And they're trying to tie that together. But the come on, guys, like, no, no, no. You know, the the defense was trying to challenge the reliability of the prosecution's timeline and the bay dump theory. But in court, the state paints that Scott as a man who wanted out, out of his marriage, out of fatherhood, and out of responsibility. The defense counters that no murder weapon, no eyewitnesses, no blood-soaked crime scene, just a cheating husband and a mountain of suspicion. But let's also remember, guys, that before he ever even called Lacey's mom to say that she was missing, he went home and had pizza and a glass of milk. He also did laundry. And he also bleached the floors. I'm sorry, but if my husband or wife was missing, I don't think I would be concerned with eating pizza, having milk, doing laundry, and bleaching the kitchen floor. I'd I'd I'd be distraught. I'd be with the police. I'd have my family around me. I'd be on the floor crying. I don't think I would eat. And I don't think I would clean, and I don't think I would worry about laundry. I mean, that's just me. I don't know about you, but yeah, there might not have been a weapon they found, but sometimes circumstantial evidence is enough. November 12th, 2004, the verdict. Scott Peterson is found guilty of first-degree murder for Lacey and second-degree murder for Connor. December 13th, 2004, death sentence. The jury recommends death, but Scott is later formally sentenced to death and sent to San Quentin State Prison. The jury doesn't just find Scott guilty. They decide he should die for what he did for Lacey, for Connor, and the world couldn't have been happier. Now I'm sure it's very hard to really convict somebody and give them the death penalty because you're taking someone's life away. But I think Amber coming out and talking really ruined his alibi. Um, because it just showed he was just disgusting, right? I know there was, you know, between 2012 and 2019, there were early appeals. Scott's legal team um filed multiple appeals, arguing errors in jury selection, via influence, evident issues. The courts initially uphold the conviction and the sentence. That was between 2012 and 2002. But by August of 2020, the death sentence was overturned. The California Supreme Court overturned Scott's death sentence, citing errors in jury selection. The trial judge improperly dismissed jurors who expressed general objections to the death penalty. The court, however, upholds the underlying convictions for murder. In 2020, nearly two decades after Lacey's death, the case shifts again. The California Supreme Court rules that Scott's death sentence was flawed. Not because he was innocent, but because the jury selection process was unconstitutional. December of 2021, Scott is resentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Between 2021 and 2024, the Innocence Project and New Counsel begin. The Los Angeles Innocent Project, the LAIP, later announces it is reviewing Scott Peterson's case, focusing on potential new evidence and alleged flaws in the original investigation and trial. They raise questions about possible alternative suspects, forensic and timeline issues, and whether evidence was fully explored. Scott's supporters argued he was convicted largely on circumstantial evidence and media-driven bias. No, how about he was convicted of the fact that he just happened to be in the same bay that where his wife was found the morning she went missing, and he just happened to make cement castings and buckets. He just happened to have a girlfriend and told her that his wife was dead before she went missing. He just happened to bleach the kitchen before telling her parents that she's missing. He just happened to lie to Amber all the time, saying he was in Paris when they were having a vigil. He just happened to have a boat that nobody knew about. He just happened to have a lot of cash and camping gear in his car and bleached his hair and grew a goatee so no one would notice him and he was gonna flee. Hmm. That's all circumstantial about that. Two decades after the verdict, a new group steps into the spotlight. Like I said, it's the Los Angeles Innocence Project. Their mission is simple, but it's radical, and to ask whether the system just got it wrong. But ongoing legal motions and reviews related to potential new evidence and claims of innocence. No court has vacated Scott's conviction, but he remains incarcerated, serving life without parole. As of today, Scott is still a convicted murderer, but his case is no longer just a closed file. It's an active battleground between those who see him as a killer and those who see him as a symbol of wrongful conviction. As I mentioned earlier, Mark Garigos is going to CrimeCon in Vegas in 2026. He was Scott's lead defense attorney at trial. And he has long maintained that Scott did not receive a fair trial and has publicly criticized the prosecution's case. Over the years, Garagos has continued to discuss the case in media appearances, podcasts, and legal commentary. Basically, he's he's going to Crime Con to discuss the original defense strategy, what he believes the jury never heard, and how the Innocence Project involvement intersects with his long-held concerns. Okay. So recently in 2026, the case returned to the true crime stage, like literally. Marcus slated to revisit the trial and to find a chapter of his career, right? So he's going to talk about what he believes the jury never heard and how the innocence projects work echoes and questions that he's been asking for 20 years. And I don't know what the people are going to ask him. Like, what do you ask somebody who's defending a criminal? What do you see as the single biggest flaw in the state's case? Or if this trial happened today in an age of podcasts and social media, would it be different? Hell yes, it would be different. I think every true crime case would be different. John Bennet's OJ, we would have solved it. True crime sleuths and couch detectives would have solved. You know, and how does he respond to Lacey's family who lost their daughter? So less on him because he's a piece of shit. I just, I'm talking about Scott. I wanted to wrap all that up because there's a timeline to all this. And sometimes when I wait too long to put the timeline out there, it confuses people. So I wanted to put it up front. But she she lived a life and she was happy and bubbly and sweet and she just wanted love. She wanted that American dream. But you know, thank God for Amber Fry for having the girl code and stepping up and saying something and realizing this is not right, something is wrong, you know. And she literally got wired up and ratted his ass out. And I applaud her for that. I'd like to meet her. That'd be cool if she came to speak at CrimeCon, but I'd also like to hear Sharon. But, you know, it's been more than 20 years since Lacey vanished, and her story is still being argued in court filings, in conference halls, living rooms, but for her family, the story is simple. Lacey and Connor were murdered, and Scott is responsible. End of story. The Innocence Project and Scott supporters, the story is unfinished. They're, you know, a conviction built on circumstantial evidence and a tidal wave of media outrage somewhere between these versions is a young woman who loved holidays, who was excited to become a mother, and whose life was cut short on the eve of Christmas. I don't I know in today what what was released the other day. Actually, it was like a few days ago, there was a California judge that denied Scott from attempting to present new evidence that was aimed at um overturning his 2024 or 2004 murder conviction. And he was calling that his effort was meritless. The Los Angeles Innocence Project took on his case and they plan to appeal this decision, which rejected new witness testimony and claims regarding a burglarly that I don't know. I just don't I don't understand that. The judge uh rejected most of the new evidence presented by the LA Innocence Project, and you know, it is sought to link the 2002 murder of Lacey and Connor to a nearby burglary and an orange van. And if you watch the Netflix documentary, you'll see that there is an appeal planned. Pearson's legal team is moving to appeal the decision, continuing to fight to overturn his murder conviction. There was duct tape that there was a previous request for DNA or something, DNA testing on a piece of duct tape found on Lacey's body that was granted, but the results haven't produced enough of a breakthrough to really use it as evidence. Peterson's also pursuing a separate petition in the California Supreme Court regarding alleged juror misconduct and a previous appeal of which he was denied in 2022. Batt remains in prison, having his death sentence reduced to life without parole. The prosecution has consistently maintained that the conviction is solid for more, you know, for more since for more than 20 years, you know. So um, if you if you go on YouTube and you look things up from Nancy Grace, she has been such a critic of this piece of shit since he was charged. And she's con, you know, has always asserted his guilt and highlighted his behavior, the evidence, and really expressed her dislike for him. And there were some things that she had said over the years that I had jotted down because, like I said, I watched this inside and out. And I know she said she would have loved to personally prosecute Scott Pearson. And man, would I have loved his watch? I would pay a thousand dollars to have watched that. She said he's guilty as the day is long. She said, an innocent man doesn't dye his hair and flee. She says he's a liar. He lies about everything, and an innocent man doesn't have to lie then to cover up all those stories. His stories kept changing. That's some of the problem, too. Like he said that morning she was on the computer looking at like patio furniture with the sunflower on an umbrella or something, and that there she was watching one of those morning shows, and then he changed his story and said she went for a walk. And then he said he was gonna go golfing, but it was too cold. So he went out on the marina instead, because that makes sense. Um, just little things. She got really pissed when she, you know, I remember her going, like, he never handed out her, you know, her missing flyers. And the timeline is what Nancy sits on, and that's where I'm at. Like he happens to be in the neighborhood at the same time Lacey went missing, and it's a two-trip to the bay. I mean, that's what she said. It's he planned, he was, it was premeditated, 100%. She said it was Scott's last ditch effort to try and get out of prison. I hope that murderer rots in his cell, Nancy said. She said the new scientific evidence, and quote, you know what she does with her fingers, the new scientific evidence is a load of crap. And she said his wife is missing and he's still calling Amber Fry trying to get with her, his mistress. She said Scott's decision to speak out is considered dangerous because he will not be cross-examined or tested and can say whatever he wants. Nancy often focuses on the ridiculous claim of Peterson's to be fishing on a cold Christmas Eve when his wife was missing. Come on, that's what I just said. Like, he denies going golfing because it's too cold, but he goes out in the the water instead when it's cold on Christmas Eve and the wind's blowing on the water because that that sounds so much warmer than golden golfing. She always focused on him dyeing his hair, having the large amount of cash, and being so close to the border was just like, hello, you know, he's clearly trying to flee. And she always, always, always emphasized that the 10-minute window of the time fits with Peterson's known movements, right? So she always called him, she still does, a serial philanderer and a liar. She hates him. Like I'm telling you, when I met her in the resort just walking around, I had mentioned why I watched her and she just man, what a piece of crap. I mean, you can see the hate in her eyes about him, and I love her. I love her so much, and she's just the sweetest person when she's not on TV. I mean, guys, she's not like that all the time. But man, if I needed a prosecutor, I'd pay millions. But I mean, you don't want a prosecutor, but you know what I mean. If I if I wanted anybody on my side in the courtroom, it'd be Nancy Grace. She's just, she's just the best. But yeah, there's there's so much. And come on, guys, if you really think Scott is innocent, then please get your head examined because yes, there's real evidence, and then there's circumstantial. And we know that circumstantial can't always be used, but sometimes it is enough. It's enough. Um, you know, she wrote in her book, her mom wrote in her book, questions that she had about that she wanted to talk to Scott about. But she started putting pieces together and she made a list of questions. Why wasn't there any salt water on his fishing line? There were three questions she wanted him to ask, but she that he could help, right? Um, why had he used lures? And one of them was still in the pack on opened, even though he claimed he used them. And why was he fishing for sturgeon? They want like the police wanted to clear him, but they couldn't. And from him not helping them and cooperating, it was just making their jobs harder. And her mom wrote a little part in the book here that said she didn't want to close her eyes. She says, I felt like if I did, I'd lose the chance of seeing her. What if she called out and I didn't hear? Where is she? Is she hurt? Is she cold? Is she hungry? Is she being cared for? Who has her? Who would want to take her away from us? Is she crying out for help? Is she dead and she stops on the word dead. She said, I sat up the entire second night, Christmas night, on the sofa surrounded by family and friends, all of whom should have been at home celebrating Christmases with their families. But as one of them said so convincingly, they couldn't celebrate when I was in such dire pain. It was a time to be together. She said she talked to her friend Patty, and questions arised. She said, Where was Scott the whole time? She said, He was launching the boat with a question mark. And Patty said, What boat? They don't even have a boat. And this is where things just started really clicking together. I don't want to, you know, I'm not gonna read the whole book, but there's just little things that I wanted to point out. There's pictures of Lacey. I mean, her smile was just radiant. But yeah, they did find Lacey and Connor. I find it amazing that they washed up together close by. I don't know how to put into words what this case means to me, but her mom does. And I just read the book for Lacey. Um, again, her birthday is May 4th. I know I didn't go too much into detail about Lacey, but I don't want to take away from you reading the book. Um, there's poems published in there, some of her favorite TV shows, pictures and little journal entries about being pregnant. And she really did love Scott. She did, and she thought she won the lottery. You know, when she introduced him to her mom, they went out to lunch and he was a waiter, and he brought Lacey 12 roses and then brought a dozen for her mom. And Sharon was just amazed of him, and that's how they are, though. Charismatic, they're charming, they usually have very good looking, and they can manipulate anybody, and that was him, you know. And then she found out later on that he lied about certain colleges he went to. And she found it odd when Scott never really wanted kids, and then all of a sudden he wanted them. It was it was just odd. I don't think Lacey ever thought that he would do something like that to her, you know? And it sucks because she really loved him, she really did love him, and she got her American dream, she got that nice house and the pool and the baby coming, and the family dinners, and you know, the good-looking, charming, successful guy, and she planned her wedding, and she just absorbed every detail. And she finished school, and that was very important to her. She loved gardening, so her degree was in you know, garden or bot like is it herbology or something like that. She loved board games and she just couldn't wait to introduce Scott to everybody. And they were they were at first, they were it it came as though they were serious about each other. Sharon said he was very polite. He even insisted on sleeping in a different room when they met, when they would stay at her house, and he didn't really volunteer conversation, but he readily answered questions and he appeared to have a sense of humor. And they just really liked him. Lacey's mom loved him until up until like they finally realized he did it. But then she realized she never knew him. They got a golden retriever, that was Mackenzie, and she loved him. I don't know. It's so it's hard for me to I didn't want to do a podcast on it, but something was just telling me to talk about it. And then I find out her birthday's in a few days, so that is really wild to me. But you should just read the book, watch the documentary, and decide for yourself what you think about Scott. But I'm glad that judge, I'm glad that judge finally denied him because he's a piece of shit. Nobody likes him. He needs to rot in hell. Thank you, Amber Fry, for having girl code and being honest and open and giving a shit. And she even apologized to Lacey's family publicly on TV and said she would do anything she had to to help them bring Lacey home. You know, Scott didn't know she was gonna go live like that. So she was wired and recording phone calls before she did that. Um she was shaking, she had so much anxiety. But I want to read, I don't know if she ever read a book. She may have written a book, I don't know, but I I follow her on Instagram and she seems to be doing very well for herself. And there is a part in the book that her mom really lost it. I'm trying to find. She says, There is an unbelievable sadness in my heart for the loss of what and what should have been. December 24th, 2002, the Scott Peterson I had known for more than eight years ceased to exist. The Scott I knew was the one Lacey loved so much. He was the center of her world, and I entrusted him with her to love and protect her. Scott, you made a conscious decision to murder Lacey and Connor. This was when they were she was giving her victim impact statement. She said, at that point, I saw him shake his head in disagreement. Yes, you did, she snapped. You planned and executed their murders. You decided to throw Lacey and Connor away, dispose of them like they were just a piece of garbage. You thought after a few weeks we would stop looking for Lacey and then just forget about her, as though she never existed. Your arrogance led you to believe you were more intelligent than everyone else, that you would be able to manipulate the entire situation so you would never be suspected of any wrongdoing. This was easy for you to believe because you killed Lacey long before you murdered her. You were wrong, dead wrong. You aren't intelligent at all. You are stupid. Stupid to believe you could get away with murder. Stupid to believe murder was your only way out of a marriage. Stupid to believe we would forget about Lacey. You equated a small town with small minds. On December 14th, 2002, you told Lacey you had to meet a business associate in San Francisco and would have to spend the night there. You told her you wouldn't be able to attend the Christmas party with her that evening. On December 15th, 2002, we had dinner with you and Lacey at your home. I didn't know at the time that you didn't go to San Francisco. Instead, you attended a Christmas party with your lover and then spent the night with her. You attended a Christmas party with your girlfriend while your unsuspected seven and a half month pregnant wife attended her Christmas party alone. It makes me ill knowing at the very time we were having dinner with you and Lacey that evening, you had already set your plan in motion to murder her. There was no way for me to know December 15th, 2002 would be the last time I would ever see Lacey alive. But you knew it. You were selfish, heartless, spoiled, self-centered, and you were a coward. But above all, you were an evil murderer. You murdered my beautiful Lacey and her precious baby Connor, my grandson. You murdered your own baby. You are a baby killer. Not even Satan will claim to have a part in your making. You were man-made, a product of the environment you were raised in. You could have chosen to change your path, distance yourself from evil. Fortunately, you didn't. You, Scott, are proof that evil can lurk everywhere. You don't have to look evil to be evil. You wanted to eliminate Lacey from your life. The logical solution would be divorce. However, typical of your selfish, cowardly way, you chose what you thought would be the easiest way for you. You murdered her. Why? Why, Scott? Did you murder her? The fact you no longer wanted Lacey did not give you the right to murder her. She was not a possession to rid yourself of. How dare you murder her? She was my baby. I always wanted Lacey and I will for the rest of my life. I trusted you. Lacey loved you with all her heart, unconditionally. You lied to her over and over again. And when she was most vulnerable, you selfishly cheated on her and then you murdered her. You hide behind a facade and pretend to be someone you're not. I know you are nothing but an empty hollow shell. You have no love, no feelings, no compassion, no heart, and you have no soul. You have no remorse for murdering your wife and your baby. Lacey was only five feet tall, Scott. She didn't stand a chance to physically protect herself from you. It was easy for you to overpower and then murder her and your own innocent baby boy. How did that make you feel, Scott? Were you proud of yourself? Did you feel a sense of accomplishment? Did you feel relief? Your selfish act of murdering Lacey was caused unbearable pain and heartache. There is a huge hole in my heart that will never heal. I grieve every single day for Lacey and Connor. I miss Lacey so much. I miss having a daughter, our friendships, our talks, our laughter. I miss making plans with her, hearing her giggle, watching her mature. I miss her telling me about the plants she purchased for her yard and the new recipe she's going to try tonight. I miss listening to her talk about her baby and her plans for the future. I miss her asking me for advice or for my opinion. I miss being my daughter's mother. I will never have the opportunity to see her become a mother. I will never meet my grandson. I'm only left to wonder what color would his hair and eyes be? Would he look like Lacey? Would he have long dark eyelashes? Would he have her dimples? Would he have her upbeat personality? Would he have her laugh? What would his interests be? What kind of person would he be? What would he be like in school? Would he like school? Would he like sports? What costume would Lacey have him wear for his first Halloween? Would he cry when he has his picture taken with Santa? Would it be in his Easter basket? I will never have the opportunity to know because his father murdered him. I wasn't there to protect Lacey, to protect her from you. Her husband, the man she loved and thought loved her, the last person she sorry. The last person she should need to protect, to be protected from. I got emotional there, I'm sorry. I'm gonna read that again. I wasn't there to protect Lacey, to protect her from you. Her husband, the man she loved and thought loved her, the last person she should need to be protected from. Lacey didn't know the Scott that sits in this courtroom. She would never put her life or the life of her baby in jeopardy by living with a murderer. She loved you, but she didn't need you, Scott. Lacey would have survived a divorce and learned to live without you had she been given the opportunity. I find solace in the irony that you sentenced yourself to death when you murdered Lacey. You were afforded something that Lacey was not. An opportunity to plead your case in an attempt to avoid a death sentence. You were given a trial. An attorney, a judge, and a jury. Lacey wasn't that fortunate. You took it upon yourself to be her attorney, her judge, her jury. You took it upon yourself to sentence her to death and be her executioner. Tell me, Scott, before you murdered Lacey, did you ask her if she wanted to die? Did you ask her if she wanted to live? No, you didn't. I could ask you, do you want to die? Do you want to live? But I won't ask because I don't care what you want. I only care what you get, what you deserve is death. What you didn't count on was Lacey's spirit and her love for her family, friends, and her baby that were more powerful than your evilness. Lacey tried her best to protect her baby. She kept him inside her body right up until the very end. And it's truly a miracle, and I thank God that both Lacey and our baby Connor were. Found. They are together again and will remain together for all eternity. We had to bury Lacey without her arms to hold her baby in, and without her head to see and hear and smell and kiss her sweet little baby Connor with. There was a time when I couldn't bear to look at a picture of Lacey because each time I did, I envisioned her this way. You have no idea what the very thought of this does to my soul. I finally convinced myself to see her body as she was, not as she is. Now, what I see when I look at her pictures is her beautiful smile, her contagious giggle, her happy heart, her love of life, her great expectations of becoming a mother, her generous soul, her knowing how much I love her, and me knowing how much she loves me. I am haunted every single day with visions of you murdering Lacey. Did she know you were killing her? Did she look at you? Did you look into her eyes while you were killing her? Was she alive when you put her in the water struggling to free herself from the weight you put on her? I know she was terrified and I wasn't there to save her life. Nothing will ever undo your evil act. However, it's time for you to take responsibility for murdering Lacey and Connor, your son, your own flesh and blood. You deserve to be put to death as soon as possible. I want to know, Scott, what were you thinking as you were killing Lacey and Connor? What do you think Lacey was thinking as you, her beloved husband, was killing her and your son? I tell you what I think they were thinking, and I hope these words haunt you every day, every second, every minute, every hour of the rest of your life. Lacey was thinking, Scott, what are you doing? Why are you killing me? You know how much I love you. I believed in you. You promised to take care of me and protect me. You are my lover, my partner, my best friend, and I want to be your wife and the mother of your baby. You told me you wanted that too, Scott. I want to live. I don't want to die. I don't understand why you're killing us. Please stop. I don't want to die. I don't want to die. Connor was thanking, Daddy, why are you killing mommy and me? I haven't met you yet, but I love you. If you let us live long enough for you to meet me, I know you'll love me too, Daddy. Please. Please don't kill us. I want to live. Mommy has enough love for both of us. I promise I won't take her away from you, Daddy. Why are you killing us? Please, please stop. We don't want to die. We don't want to die. And now, Scott Peterson, I am saying this to you. You deserve to burn in hell for all eternity. She said, when I sat down, everyone was in tears except for Scott, his lawyers, and his family. She said, I didn't care. I was done with them. Done with the trial, just done. Scott declined Judge DeLucci's offer to make a statement. Then DeLucci announced he was officially upholding the death sentence, calling the murders cruel, uncaring, heartless, and callous. At 3 10 a.m. the next morning, Scott was removed from San Mateo County jail wearing an orange prison outfit, shackles, and a bulletproof vest. He was put in a white van and driven to San Quentin State Prison overlooking the bay where he disposed of Lacey, and where he became the 644th prisoner on death row. The trial may have been behind us, but we still felt Lacey's absence, and we always will. We'll always have questions, we'll always cry our hearts out, and we'll always ache. So different had our lives become, Scott's and ours, and yet we'd always share Lacey, each in different ways. For me, the ringing phone would never be Lacey. Christmas would never feel like a celebration, and I'd always remember her birthday without her. I'd never turn down the street and see her. I'd never know my grandson. I'd never hear him talk. God, how I miss her. How I will always miss her. That's just part of it, guys. I could read that whole book, but I thought that was very important to quote. It does. It makes me so emotional. I want to talk about so much more, but it's I can't. It really I don't know. I get chills. I always want to cry. And I do. I think of Lacey and her big smile and nipples. And what what if she thought? What was she thinking when Scott did that to her? What was going through her head? And the fact that her mom saw her body with just a torso with no head and no arms, and they put Connor in the casket and she couldn't hold him. That's why they said that the cement castings were used to anchor her body, and that's why her limbs were gone. But her body from the gases eventually broke free, and then the limbs were removed, like from the the uh trying to think of a word, the tension, I guess, from the weights in her limbs. It's so horrible. I feel so sad when I think about her. And I know I usually get really emotional, like not I don't want to say sad on my podcast, but I get like really like heated up and I'm talking a million miles an hour, and this one's probably really slow and you know, not as informational, I guess. But because Scott's been in the news recently and Lacey's birthday's coming up, you know, I she should be here. She's beautiful. Hopefully, judges will keep denying Scott and he'll burn in hell and suffer in rotten prison and he'll never get out because he doesn't get parole. But I hope judges keep knocking down the evidence that he wants to present. I hope the innocence project finally pulls their head out of their ass and realizes he's he's guilty. He didn't have to kill her. He could have left her, he could have left her. He was a coward, he's disgusting, he's evil. And I don't care. I don't care what anybody thinks. If you again, you have to get your head examined if you really think he's innocent. It's all right in front of you. And he's a narcissist, he's a charming trickster. Of course he's gonna say that he's innocent. Of course he's gonna try to blame everybody else. That's what they do. Like, he's never gonna take accountability, he's never going to admit he did anything, just like Brian Kohlberger, never said anything, just like OJ. I mean, think about them all. Just like Chris Watts. I mean, he finally admitted it, but it's you know, I just feel bad for her mom. But the last phone call she had with Lacey, they said they loved each other and good night, and that was the last time she ever talked to her. If I ever go out that way, I'd love to visit her grave, paying my respects to her. But I'm gonna wrap it up because again, I get really emotional with this. It's the only besides Gabby's that makes me get really emotional, and maybe I shouldn't have done this one because it's all over the place. I know it it doesn't really have a structure or a timeline, but hey, if you listen and you enjoy it, please leave me some feedback. If you follow this case and you think he's guilty, please let me know. Just let me know what you think about the whole thing in general. I don't know, like I don't have a lot to add to it because you know it happened in 2002. We all know he did it, but unfortunately, he got taken off death row. I'd love to see him try in an electric chair. I hope I gave Scott Peterson the disrespect he deserves tonight. This is true crime with Tiff Klein, and I will see you next week.