Writing the Land with Dr. Lis McLoughlin

When a pipeline project threatened residents of rural Massachusetts, Dr. Lis McLoughlin partnered with a local land trust and fought to protect her community. She not only succeeded in this endeavor, she established NatureCulture® and the Writing the Land® Project in collaboration with poets in an effort to financially support land trusts and protect lands across the US. 

Bio: Dr. Lis McLoughlin is the founder and director of NatureCulture®, a publishing company through which she directs the Writing the Land® Project which pairs poets with conserved lands, and creates anthologies sold for land conservation. Lis has degrees in Civil Engineering, Education, and Science and Technology Studies. She lives off-grid in Northfield, Massachusetts and part-time in Montréal, Québec. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Heart Pump Podcast. I'm your host, Yvonne Ellis. The Heart Pump Podcast might lights mothers, change makers, nature lovers, and creators of all kinds. Each of our podcasts aims to share interviews and stories of beauty, resilience, and inspiration for all.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Well, thanks so much for having me. I'm really glad to be here and uh appreciate the opportunity to talk about nature culture and writing the land. Nature culture is basically a mission-driven publishing and events company. We help people be in right relationship with nature, hopefully. That's the goal. We have about 34 books. 17 of them are in the Writing the Land series and 17 other books. Writing the Land is a project involving over 350 poets and 150 land trusts. And what we do is pair poets with conserved lands, and they write one to three poems for that land. Each land trust gets a chapter and an anthology that includes their poems and other information about the land trust, what they do, how they do it, information about the land and some photos, maps, and those are published at least one a year. Some years we have up to four. About 10 land trusts in each. And they are sold by the land trusts to support their mission.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Wow. So how did you create this? What sparked this idea?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

I've always been interested in conserving land. I live off grid for half the year in Northfield, Massachusetts, surrounded by some great forest here. And I'm a poet, so I used to just walk around the forest and write poetry. But then a pipeline decided that they were coming through and they were going to build a compressor station near where I live. And it would have completely ruined the very rural character that we have here. So when I was trying to find ways to oppose the pipeline, I tried everything I knew. I was an interdisciplinary scholar, so I've studied engineering and environmental stuff. And nobody from academia would help. Not one person stepped forward, at least not that I could find. But who did help were a land trust. So Mount Grace, a land conservation trust, became an intervener and helped stop the pipeline, which we did. We succeeded in Western Mouse. So when I started thinking about how to conserve land, I realized that land trusts really are the experts in this. I don't have to figure out how to conserve land. They know how to do that. So I was looking for a way to use poetry to help that cause. And that's when I started thinking about writing land. I was able to hook up with a poet named David Cruz who had had similar ideas in the past. And he knew of a land trust called Northeast Wilderness Trust Newt. And they're a wonderful land trust that focuses on Forever Wild. And they were the first land trust to sign up. And they led us to other land trusts who also signed up. And so we had a book that first year. David has since moved on to do his own poetry, but he was helpful in teaching me how to reach out and how to use Google Docs and Google tables, which are now the bane of my existence, but at least I can use them. And I've been doing that since 2020.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

What a project. What a gift. Thank you for creating this.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Well, I enjoy the work, but it would never have happened without so many poets really buying into the idea. They've been great.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

So what do the poets need to do in order to be a part of this?

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Well, right now we're not open to applications because we haven't started the next cycle of land trusts. But in general, I recruit land trusts based on what the poets suggest and also based on reaching out to them. Once we have enough land trusts for a book, I tell the poets who are nearby who are in the project, the land trust chooses poets from the ones who are here already. And if they don't have any nearby, then new poets are recruited to write lands. Sometimes the land trust will also have somebody they want to write for them, someone on the board or a friend, and that's okay too. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

When you first started, were you talking with poets about this? How were you making this happen?

SPEAKER_00 6:24

It was mostly word of mouth. I knew some poets and they would ask their friends, and we just accumulated a lot of poets very quickly. It depends on where, for some reason, we're really popular in Maine and Washington State. We have tons of poets in both those places, which is just great. But some places we struggle to find poets, but it's all networking. And sometimes poets will find us on the web, but usually we find them, which is also great.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Oh, so great. Yeah, recently I interviewed Aaron Robertson, who told me about what you were doing. How did that come to be with Aaron? How did your relationship with Aaron start?

SPEAKER_00 7:17

She had a relationship with friends with Cole Creek. And I forget if we contacted them first or they contacted us or she put them in touch with us. The friends became part of an anthology and, of course, had her write for them. So she became part of the project. She's been great. She has a really good situation as being their poet in residence. So most of our poets don't have the opportunity to be in residence anywhere long term like that. Although some do, some go and stay on the land in a cabin or whatever, but most of it is day visiting. But she has a really deep and wonderful connection with land already. So that was really nice to take advantage of for the project.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Oh, that's wonderful. Woo-hoo. But I'd love to know more about nature culture and how you're able to publish these anthologies. How does this happen? What's the process?

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Well, it's a lot of work. There's about 10 land trusts in each anthology. So I start uh about 18 months before publication, reaching out to land trusts and explaining the project. Some of them are very interested right away and want to be in, some are hesitant, and others are like, no, we're just too overwhelmed, which happens a lot. I mean, land trusts are often overwhelmed. But if they do have the bandwidth, then they become part of the anthology. We stop recruiting after I have 10 minimum and match poets with the poets we have, or they can get their own poets if they want, or we recruit new poets for them if necessary. Then the poets will write for anywhere from six months to almost a year, depending on when that land trust comes in. And they'll write between one or three poems that will end up in the anthology. We ask the land trust to use a minimum of one, and usually they want all of them, of course. And the copyright stays with the poet, but the land trust is allowed to use the poem non-exclusively and indefinitely. So they can put it in their newsletter, they can post it on their website, and of course, it's in the anthology, which they can then sell for outreach and for fundraising. Some of the land trusts make really good use of the anthologies, they give them to potential donors or their big donors, or everybody who is involved, their volunteers makes a great gift. No one needs a new hat anymore. So that's the process. And then the poems are due generally January 1st, and then the anthology comes out in early spring.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

So is there any kind of editing of these poems, or do they go straight in the anthology?

SPEAKER_00 10:37

I am a kind of hands-off poetry editor. I feel that the poets uh are the experts on the poems, and I do most of the other stuff. So I do the layout, I do a lot of editing with the land trust material that they send in. But in terms of the poetry, I ask for the final version of the poems.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

And then do you work with a publishing company that makes the book an anthology?

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Or how does that work? No, that's me. I'm a publishing company and I make the book from scratch. Oh my gosh. Wow. I lay it out in InDesign and we use Ingram Spark to print it on demand. Wow. So if someone is looking for a copy, where can they find it? So they should first go to the website nature-culture.net and look under Books and Publishing. And each book has its own page. And some of the anthologies are sold by the land trusts that are within the anthology. That's always the best way because the land trust gets the most money for the anthology. But if you don't see it there or you just want a shortcut, you can buy it on bookshop.org or through any independent bookshop. I don't encourage people to use Amazon. I mean, they're probably on there, but I hope that people will buy them independently. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

And just in case there's listeners today that wonder why Amazon shouldn't be used for buying books. Could you give them a nice answer?

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Uh, so many reasons. I believe independent bookshops are essential, not just because you can go in and pick up a book and actually see what it's like, which is wonderful and helps you make good choices. But also for freedom of speech, we can't always have just one outlet for all books. I don't use Amazon because I really value independent bookshops and I hope that they survive and want them to.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Me too. Long live the independent bookshop. I've definitely found my favorites across the West. So thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. I actually asked you because it came up when I was talking with Erin as well. And so I just thought, why not just put that out there? So I hear a rumor that you have a workshop planned in Ireland with Seamery Furman. Is this true? Can we hear more about this? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

So we're having a workshop in a castle in Ireland in 2027 with Seymourie Furman. We actually have two weeks there. So the first week is full. That's with Kelly Russell Agaddon. And the second week is with Seymourie Furman, who has just come on board to do this. So we're really excited. And there's also lots of uh events such as uh Renaissance feast, Irish feast, whiskey tasting, Irish storytelling with nibblys. The castle grows most of its own food and is mostly organic and all locally sourced foods. There's 200 acres of grounds, including, which I can't wait to see, 400-year-old trees.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Like more than one. I can't imagine. I'm really looking forward to that. So that's in November of 2027, and there are six spaces left. There's three that are shared bedrooms and three that are private. So if you've ever wanted to write in a castle, it's uh I can't wait myself.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

I'm sorry. Yeah, and C. Marie Furman is one of the best teachers I have ever had in my entire life. She taught me so much that I'm using today. So I'm so glad that you two are partnering and making this possible because she is an amazing teacher.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

She is, and she does so much for the poetry community. She edited Native Voices and also Cascadia. She co-edited, and she's been teaching a long time in a lot of different venues. She just finished judging our first ever poetry awards this year. Uh, and she's written some intros for some of our books. She's just an amazing person, an amazing writer, not just poetry, but also essays. And I understand that she's also done other kinds of media that I haven't heard, but on the radio, etc.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Yeah, she's done a lot. So what a gift. I'm so glad that the two of you are collaborating and making this possible. It's gonna be really special.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Well, thanks to C. Marie for coming on board. It'll be the first time that we get to actually meet in person. You know, most of the poets that I work with, we started during the pandemic. And of course, they're all across the country. So I haven't met most of them in person, but every time I meet with her on Zoom, she's just an amazingly open and caring person.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah, she's lovely. I really adore that woman, and I'm so glad that she's part of all of this. So all right. Moving forward, what else do you have going on with nature culture and riding the land? Is there anything else that you'd like to share with us today?

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Ah, well. Susan Langras has written a workbook for workshops. So we're starting to do workshops for any poet at any level. It you don't have to be a professional poet to take them. And she has one version for adults and one for youth. And we're doing our second pilot of that later this year. So those will be workshops that Writing the Land poets can offer via land trusts or on their own to help everybody get involved in Writing the Land. Uh, it shouldn't just be for professional poets. Everybody should do it. Then Karen Douglas, who is a yoga teacher in Maine, she owns Fishmoon Yoga, is going to be offering workshops. So that's another new thing that we're doing our second pilot of this year. And hopefully those will be available next year to everybody. We also have a bunch of new books coming up this year. Just counted. I'm working on 10 at the moment, but there's a few that'll be out this year, five or so. So look for those. One of them is called Turning Poetry into Food, a collection of poetry X Hunger poems. I don't know if you know Poetry X Hunger. You may want to interview Hiram Larue. Poetry X Hunger is a group that Hiram runs that provides poetry through their website about hunger worldwide. And their anthology, Nature Culture, will be publishing later this year so that those poems are available to everybody. You can read them at events, you can share them to raise money for hunger. They're just a really important cause that Hiram's Grip, Poetry X Hunger, works on. Wow. And then we'll probably have some more retreats coming up later, I hope, but the Ireland one in 2027 is our big one. And a bunch of great new books coming up. We'll have our first novel, which is a sort of post-apocalyptic novel, but it's got hope in it called Swimmer by Ashley May Saver. And it's a lot of fun. I think you'll like it. There's In the Bewilderment, which are poems about Prairie from Ryan Kegley, which is an area that doesn't get enough attention. Turning poetry into food, I mentioned Finding Meteorites in Antarctica, is poems by Paul Brook with a very unique sort of rhythmic structure that has to do with the light in Antarctica. And a book of anti-war poems, which doesn't have its final name yet by Karina Lutz. Yeah, a variety pack.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Yes, you do. Wonderful. So with uh do people send you their manuscripts? Do they submit them somewhere? How does that happen?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

So this year I'm shifting the writing of land anthologies to having fewer land trusts but being in color. So I opened submissions from some of our poets to see if anyone had a manuscript that fit with the guidelines. And I accepted these manuscripts for this year. I am not sure it'll be an ongoing thing, but it was a good experiment for me. And in the future I won't take quite so many at once. But it's been a great way to expand. I had some books by individual authors before, but they were all writing the land poets. This is a mix of writing the land and non-writing the land poets. We'll definitely be doing the poetry award again next year. So that'll be fun. And we have an anthology coming out, uh, edited by Zaina Izam, which is poets from the first five years, and there will also be appendices that will have something to say about how the poets wrote what they did in Writing the Land and helped. Other poets or people interested in writing land to think about their own work. This is different than the workshop book, which is more uh structured. This is more for people to use independently when writing the land. So I hope that people will find that book generative for their own work.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yes. Can they find this book on your website?

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Can they find it at It'll be out later this year. It'll be on the website, and like all our books, you can order it through your independent bookstore, or it'll be on bookshop.org, which if people don't know, is an online place to buy books that donates part of the profits to independent bookshops. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Thank you for all the work that you do, Lise. Thank you for partnering with so many poets and land trusts and making conservation more possible for others. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Well, thank you. Thanks for what you do. I love that you have at least two of our poets on your podcast and probably more. So as I explore it, I look forward to hearing more from the poets. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Thank you so much. I appreciate your time today, Lise. Thank you for all you do.