She Was Afraid of Guns… Now She’s Leading a Movement Changing Who Shoots—and Why

She didn’t grow up around guns.
Didn’t want one in her home.
And for years… she fought against the idea entirely.

Then one moment changed everything.

What started as fear turned into curiosity.
Curiosity turned into competence.
And that competence… turned into a nationwide movement that’s reshaping how women train, think, and show up under pressure.

In this episode, Robyn Sandoval—President and CEO of A Girl & A Gun—pulls back the curtain on what actually builds confidence with a firearm… and why most people get it wrong.

We get into:

• The real reason women are stepping into shooting sports in record numbers
• Why community isn’t just support—it’s a performance multiplier
• The hidden dangers of thinking “someone else will handle it”
• And the uncomfortable truth about violence that most people avoid… until it’s too late

This isn’t just about shooting.

It’s about responsibility, readiness… and what happens when you decide you’re the one in charge.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

After 9-11, our local NBC news channel did an episode on the vulnerabilities of the city. Like you would think a terrorist attack could hit the Jake Pickle Center where there's a nuclear reactor, but actually a stick of dynamite under Demansfield Dam would decimate the city. And I thought, how irresponsible, NBC? Don't tell people that. And so I realized how vulnerable our cities were. And so I thought if something happened and how could we hunker down as a family and stay put? And that was my plan. And then my husband said, if people are that desperate, someone's going to kick in our door for things that you've stored. How am I going to stop them? And after arguing for gun control my entire life, I had no argument to that. It really came down to me protecting these three people that relied on me, these three little ones that relied on me. And I was willing to do or learn anything it took to make sure that we were safe in that situation.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

My name's Terry Vaughan. And for those of you who don't know, I was a competitor on season four of Topshot on the History Channel, where I met some of the most committed competitors in the shooting world. But in all of those circles, I have rarely met someone with the energy and commitment to the shooting sports that is even close to Robin Sandable. Robin is the president and CEO of A Girl and a Gun, a national powerhouse that's changing how women train and thrive in the shooting sports. Under her leadership, a girl and a gun isn't just a community. It's become the standard bearer for women's opportunities within the shooting sports nationwide. And trust me, she is reshaping the firearms landscape, one confident shooter at a time. So, Robin, thank you for joining me and welcome to Making Shooters Better.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Wow, Terry, what an introduction. Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be invited on today.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

So I start with the same question for every guest. How old were you when you first started shooting?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Oh gosh, how old was I? I was old. Let's just leave it at that. Um, I was a mother of three. I was uh well into adulthood. It was in 2011.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Really?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Not even that long ago. Yeah. Even though I'm a native Texan, it was not part of my life growing up. I grew up in Dallas and you know, the police were a phone call away. That was kind of the the way I was raised. My parents were California transplants. So we didn't grow up with guns in our home at all. I knew people that had them, and that was a community thing. Everyone would go to the deer lease or go to the property, but that wasn't the way it was for my family. So yeah, it was much until I was much older.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Oh, that's bloody interesting because you it's kind of especially in Texas, you have to kind of avoid shooting. There's so many guns down there.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Texas has that reputation, but actually it's only recently that it's even become sort of a gun-friendly state. We've always had much more restrictive legislation and and laws than people recognize. And it especially in the cities, it's just not as common as you would think. And I think for millennials too, introducing people later in in their a lot of women later in their adulthood, and then for millennials coming in too, a lot of people just aren't exposed to firearms like they used to be.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah. So what was the catalyst for you? Why 2011 and then you're into guns?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Well, it was a kind of a conversation, a 10-year conversation with my husband. He wanted to bring a gun in the home, and I was like, absolutely not, not with our three kids. It's not happening. Oh, interesting. And uh it was a couple things leading up to it. One of those, the main catalyst was Hurricane Katrina. When I saw a modern American city debilitated overnight, and I saw desperate families at the Superdome. There was one moment when I saw a mother who had small children and she was handing her children to strangers getting on a bus to Houston. And she said, Please take them. I'll try and find you in a few days. And my heart broke for her, and I can't even imagine handing my children off. At the time, I had actually read it, um, I'd watched a documentary recently on uh women of the Holocaust and just different times in history when women felt like they had to hand their children over for safety. And so that was kind of on my heart anyway. And I thought, what is it like to be in that desperate situation? So I turned to my husband and I said, I'm gonna store peanut butter and tuna fish, and we're just gonna hunker down. If anything happens here in our community, we're just gonna hunker down. Also, I realized the vulnerability of our communities. After 9-11, our local NBC news channel did an episode on the vulnerabilities of the city. Like you would think a terrorist attack could hit the Jake Pickle Center where there's a nuclear reactor, but actually a stick of dynamite under Demansfield Dam would decimate the city. And I thought, how irresponsible, NBC, don't tell people that. And so I realized how vulnerable our cities were. And so I thought if something happened and how could we hunker down as a family and stay put? And that was my plan. And then my husband said, if people are that desperate, someone's gonna kick in our door for things that you've stored. How am I gonna stop them? And after arguing for gun control my entire life, I had no argument to that. It really came down to me protecting these three people that relied on me, these three little ones that relied on me. And I was willing to do or learn anything it took to make sure that we were safe in that situation. So we bought our first gun. I drove it home like it was glass and put it in the safe, expecting it to just jump out and walk around at night. And uh I took a at the time back in 2011, uh Juliana Crater had hosted the first A Girl in a Gun Girls Night Out. I heard about it. It was actually on meetup at the time. I was not gonna go. I was terrified. My husband actually went on to meet up and RSVP'd for me to go. So I show up at this range. I don't know if I'm more scared of shooting the gun, meeting these women, especially women that like guns, going to a dirty gun range, all of it was out of my element. And I was scared of every part of it. And I went and I pretended to know what I was doing. And more than anything, not only did I learn this tool and learn how to manipulate it and and work it well, but I was able to talk to these women about why aren't you afraid? And and kind of look at how they interact with it and say, well, why are they why are they so confident carrying it on body? Why are they so confident around their children? What do they know that I don't know? And how can I learn more from them? So I felt that the girl in the gun community right there was such an invaluable resource. And so, of course, two weeks later I went back again, now having one time under my, you know, my full experience, but I knew one time more than the girl who was new and terrified. So, Robin, teach her. So that's how it kind of started. And so I started taking classes, I started competing, I started mentoring, I started coaching, I started instructing, and it just grew. A girl in the gun grew, and more instructors wanted to do what we were doing. And so uh Juliana and I partnered up and we uh grew a girl in the gun into what it is, and I I uh she I bought her out a couple years ago and continued on our mission that we built together. And so, yeah, a girl in the gun is now the largest women's shooting club. We offer Girls Night Out that simple night that I went to 2011. We offered it 350 ranges around the country.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

So, what was it that they did well during that meeting that got you to come back? Because that's quite a journey to start out completely terrified. Anyone that has guns must be crazy. And now you're attending a meeting and then going back.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

It was really just learning the right way. I wanted to make sure that I understood the safety of it. I wanted to make sure that it wasn't going to do anything without me manipulating it. And that was the biggest thing is I really thought there was a way I could mess it up or a way I could look at it wrong or hold it wrong. And really, if you understand the four rules of gun safety and you just follow them, keep it pointed down range, keep your finger off the trigger. The rest of it is all just learning as you go. The basics of safety, we start there and knowing that confidence and knowing that each person is responsible and capable and and they had faith in me to be able to do it right, then I should have faith in me to be able to do it right too.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

So, did you shoot that very first even that first meeting? I'm assuming this wasn't just at somebody's house and you just talked about guns. You were at the range, I expect, but yeah, you correct me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

We were at the range. Yeah, I shot probably a hundred rounds that night and learned a lot. And uh yeah, it was the beginning of a night that would change my life forever. Do you remember what caliber you were shooting? I was shooting a 40 cal, my Glock 23. Nice. And how'd you do? I did pretty well. I did pretty well. I think that a lot of women who underestimate themselves do really well. So uh it definitely grew confidence and made me believe, yeah, I can actually do this.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

That's the difference, I think, in a lot of instances with a supportive environment, but also good teachers, people that can say, you know, not only build your confidence and encourage you, but show you, okay, if you do this, if you hold it this way, if you position your feet this way, all of these factors that come together to help us shoot well, it's my experience over teaching in various capacities over the last 20 years. Women do, when their confidence is is uh nurtured, they shoot phenomenally. Because they soak up all the information and then go, okay, that's what you want me to do, and that's what they do.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

And I think that's how it was for me. They believed in me and thought I could do it, so it made me believe in me and think I could do it. And that's what I try and still in all of our shooters that come to the line, especially those who don't have the experience. You're just a blank slate. Let us teach you what you need to know.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

So you took up the mantle or joined this club and started to grow it. Was it in part, you think, because you had such a positive experience that first time? You're like, I want to provide this to more people.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

No, it was it, I I kind of was voluntold. There were so many women coming. And it was just so many women wanted to know what we knew and and have what we had and have such fun at the range and feel empowered and feel smart and feel capable and strong that more and more women would come. And so I kind of was just, we didn't have time to question did we like this or we want to do this. It just grew so quickly. And it was just from the beginning, we knew it was special. From the beginning, we knew that it was not just about making someone a better shooter, but making her a more confident and stronger woman. And so from the beginning, uh it kind of had that vibe about it. And I tried to not get involved. I had three kids and a full-time job. I was, I don't have time for this. But the the passion and the mission and the people just pulled me in. And like I said, I never would have known that that life, that night would have changed my life forever.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

That's so funny, though, that you are such a reluctant, you're like dragged, kicking and screaming into like please help other people. But that's the thing with community, isn't it? You and it's also amazing to see how many people what they're curious. They might be if they might be frightened, but there's curiosity there. And they're like, well, if it is down to just me, if it's just me in the house with the kids, what am I going to do? And it's like, okay, well, the answer is, as it was in your case, I need to figure out the the great equalizer in self-defense, which is a firearm.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Yeah. And it for me, it was like, how do I protect my kids in case of a natural disaster, something catastrophic? And then it became, okay, well, what about if there's just a bad guy? Or what about if I'm traveling with my kids to somewhere else? Or so then it turned, it just was an evolution of, you know, this big scary thing to a home defense, to conceal carry, to so it was really a journey. And so I think a lot of our ladies really recognize that where they are in their journey. And that's what makes a girl in a gun different, also, is that we will accept you at any point of your journey and we'll kind of answer your questions along the way. Yes, we want you carrying hot in the chamber, carrying every day, on body, all of that. But if your journey is not taking you there, or if you have a different plan for your life, then I'll help you be the best, most proficient self-protector at any phase.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

That's that's fantastic. And it it's uh one other layer I'd like to add to that is I have come across in the past where women have said, Well, my husband has the guns, he has the rifles, um, and if something bad happens, he's gonna deal with it, which is great, absolutely. And you know, uh the man's role should be protecting his bloody family, just as it should be a mother's role to protect a family. But it was interesting because I did have a couple that came to the range one time, and she was she wasn't afraid of guns, she was kind of indifferent. She didn't she didn't really care one with the other. And I asked her about halfway through this lesson because I saw her paying attention, her husband was doing some training, and I said, Would you like to shoot this? She said, Oh, yeah, he you know, it's his thing. I said, Well, let's just contextualize this for a minute. What happens if something happens to him? And she said, What do you mean? A lucky shot at him that does the job is you know just as possible as a as a someone with skills taking him out. What are you going to do if he falls? What is your next step? What's your next plan? And I could see this ruminate for a moment, and then she said, I just realized I have no idea. I said, Well, I'll tell you what, just try this. Now, if you don't like it, no worries, but just try it. And a half hour later, I've got him running kind of like a stack, like they're about to enter a room out on this range. And she was shooting as well as he was. Because once she had contextualized it into, oh, I am the next line of defense, so I'd never considered that it would ever have to be me. She was soaking it up like a sponge, and it was brilliant to watch. And at the end of the session, when they finally left the range, that I heard them as they were leaving, and she's talking to her husband. She said, Now I know you've mentioned that I should probably have a red dot on my rifle, so let's go ahead and get that. And I do like the idea of a suppressor, that would be good too. And he turns around at the car park at the bottom of this little hill and goes, I love you, man. Because they had something they could really bond over, and it was it was brilliant. But she shot phenomenally well. It was just okay, just had to like a little push over the over the hesitancy, put it in a context or a scenario that resonated, and now she's like, Okay, I'm in. And they came back and tried regularly.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

You did the right thing by asking those questions and asking what the plan is. A lot of times I kind of consider myself the dear Abby of the gun world because husbands will write me all the time saying, How do I get my wife to like guns? How do I get my wife into guns or want to come to the range with me? And really the question is to ask her, okay, if it's about home defense or personal safety, what is your plan? Because a lot of women will have a plan. Okay, I'm gonna hide behind him and you just rebuke that one. Or I'm gonna take this baseball bat. Okay, let's talk that through. How what does that look like? Um, and so once you start asking the questions of like, what is your plan? Tell me more about it. Now, what if this happens? What's your what are you gonna do? What's plan B? That's when you start getting them to open their eyes a little bit, but it has to be on their decision and like you said, understanding the context of it. But a lot of them think they have a plan and they think their plan is rock solid until you start poking holes in it. But that's when she has to want to come and she has to want to be a part of it or create a new plan. So you did absolutely the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

It's funny though, isn't it? You kind of have to say, what if this happens after that and it's not what you expected? And it's like, oh, yeah, there's no contingencies, or there's very often there's no contingencies with what someone intends to do next because they've I think in their minds they've set this expectation that it will go exactly according to the very first plan, which of course we know is never going to be the case. Yeah. And now there's no fallback.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Well, people think that for everything, right? It's gonna be a dark alley, it's gonna be someone with a mask. They don't realize that bad guys don't look like bad guys. Bad guys are just regular people walking around that we see all the time. So your your plan in your mind of this defense situation is never really what happens. Well, it could, but you have to plan for the ones that are probably more probable.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Yeah, agreed. So there's a narrative out there, I think that women are somewhat of a niche industry, which I think is completely incorrect. But when did you realize that that couldn't be further from the truth?

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Well, we are half the population, and we, you know, do usually are considered as part of those budgetary and uh decisions for the household. So a lot of times when when men buy a gun, it's considered a hobby or a pastime. When women buy a gun, it becomes part of the family budget, part of the family lifestyle. It really is really more of how the children are raised and how the family spends their time. But what we were seeing is back 10 years ago, more of the men were bringing women into gun ownership. It was either someone's husband or their father or their boyfriend or their son bringing them to owning guns. And now that we've completely flipped the script in the past 15 years that a girl in the gun has been doing this, most of our members, well, not most, but a good majority or a good percentage of our members are now the first gun owner in their household. So they're actually bringing the firearms home and then teaching their husband or their son or another man in their own.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

It's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

So a lot of times couples will come together just to have a pastime to spend together, like date night at the range. But a lot of these women really want to do something that's fun, something that's empowering, something that's different. Um, you know, it at different uh parts of their journey, different milestones. You know, women who are new to motherhood might just need to get out of the house and socialize a little bit. Women who are a little older might feel like it's the coolest thing ever to shoot out the helicopter or to climb up in a Humvee and engage targets at 600 yards. Like it's just different stages of life, different ladies want to do different things. So we provide all the opportunities for them to do it.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Which is phenomenal. I love that they're the first ones to bring a gun into the house. I'm like, no, like it's I've run into situations in the past where it can be difficult sometimes with an with a guy to convince them that there's vulnerabilities there at all. Now that's not the case, of course, in a you know a broad sweeping brush, but when I've had couples come into the range, and I haven't taught for a number of years, but w when I did, if the if the woman was the lead, you can see his skepticism over the belief that there's a a problem or a worry or a vulnerability there in the first place. And I'm like, you don't live in the same world generally speaking, that women do, where the that expectation of vulnerability is sort of built in. And I it's always funny because when I talk to those individuals, those guys, there's always this, again, as far as expectations and based in realism, that they'll deal with the problem mano and and explaining to them that it's gonna be mono or mano or mano or mano or mano because you're gonna have three or four guys kick your door in. They're like, what? Like the the reality of what they might face is often the catalyst for them going, okay, I I agree with my wife now. We do need this. This is a tool I want. Okay, good, get with the program.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Yeah. I think a lot of women uh are really making this decision for the household. We have a lot of metrics and data that show that in our member polling and just the behavior of women who are taking it really seriously. We've also found that a lot of women will who have bought guns 10 years ago are now coming to the range. So whatever it is in our culture right now, whatever's in the news headlines, it's really encouraging ladies to want to train, regardless on if their partner or family is training. So we're seeing a lot more activity. Maybe they're not a new gun owner, which is what a lot of our industry tracks is buying and uh you know, Nick's background and all of that. So maybe they've had it, but now they're finally starting to come out and get training. So we're measuring the difference of what that window is from when you bought it to when you actually go to the range with it. Because a lot of people bought it back in COVID, you know, six years ago, and they put it in the safe thinking, I'll be safe, it'll be this magic talisman around my house. Um, but now they're actually realizing that there's some other vulnerabilities that maybe it'd be would be beneficial to be prepared for. And if nothing else, just to be proficient with it, know how to maintain it, take care of it, um, know the different accessories and uh just the options available to you to make shooting more successful and more fun.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

So it's it also interesting that a firearm is for some people, it's the be-all and end all of course of course. I get it, right? I if you have a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. But the reality is for personal protection and personal safety, it it's sort of concentric layers. And once you go down the road of beginning to plan for your own personal protection, you start looking at things like lighting and access points around your house. And then how do you get from this building to your car in a parking lot? It becomes part of a much broader mindset, I think. And it's just getting people to start that first step, maybe in this case being a gun ownership, is like, okay, that's the first step. What are the other steps that I can take? And I love, love that we have this huge broad community of people that think that way. They think in concentric rings, they think about personal protection and personal safety and plan accordingly.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

What we're finding is that a lot of women didn't know training existed for them. They thought you had to be a man or you had to be in the military or law enforcement or you had to be a member of a gun club. They don't realize that you can just come to a girl and a gun girl sate out and start there. And then we'll open the doors and show you different opportunities. So a lot of ladies are coming finally because they just didn't know they could. And that's really empowering to them, also. And then we have a lot of other events too, like our Drift Academy is all high-speed evasive driving and and vehicle recovery because we hope to never use your firearm, but you use your vehicle every day. So that's a very uh vulnerable place. One of those transition spaces of parking lots, parking garages, gas pumps, a lot of crime happens there, and a lot of people feel very vulnerable. There. So we have a whole course twice a year. We take ladies out to the Virginia International Raceway and talk all this thing, all things surveillance, time, distance, um, ballistics, everything to understand how you and your car you can use it as a great your car is the best way to create distance. So but it's not always in play. So what to do if it's not and how to make the best of it. So we have a whole three-day course out there that's really fun. And for ladies to go on the on the track with our professional drivers and um the skid pad and the rollover and the go-karts and learning driving techniques, um, it's pretty awesome. But it's those are skills that I love giving because not only are we giving them the firearm skills and the competition and all the things that we offer, but now here are skills that they can put into play literally every day to make themselves safer. And if I can just get a woman to walk a little taller, she'll deselect herself as a victim 90% of the time. So knowing those situational awareness, the pre-attack indicators, knowing different skills, like having those tools in her toolbox, it just makes her life richer all around.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Agreed. And I'm glad you brought up the stand a little taller because it's so empowering to learn to defend yourself, to have skills, not just with the firearm, although, of course, that's you know, that's huge, but also with your vehicle and also knowing what to look for. And combined, that changes how you move within the environment. And one of the things when I was teaching the non-verbals of both threat recognition, but also how you personally carry yourself, it wasn't just standing taller, even how you swing your arms between shoulder and elbow. The more that moves away from the midline of the body or away from the sides of the body, the more confident you look. And often when we get nervous, we tend to reduce that an arm swing that reduces and our steps, uh stride length reduces. And now we start looking like a more attractive uh target. And having the confidence of knowing, okay, uh, if worst comes to worst, I can do this with my vehicle, or I can maybe I keep in shape and I can outrun the bad guy. But the worst comes to the worst, I I have something that can level the playing field. That's a behavioral confidence that that transcends just being empowered and manifests as somebody that moves within their environment in a way as to just take themselves either off the menu or certainly push you way down it.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Absolutely. And knowing that knowledge is everything and being exposed to that knowledge, a lot of people in the firearms industry don't even know this kind of training exists. So, vehicle training, uh, vehicle CQB, um, you know, non-lethal options. We have a combatives camp, we have pepper spray classes. So having all the different options, and I think one of the biggest tools that we give our girl in gun members is to be part of our book club because then you're really exposed to different concepts of just violence, the innate nature of violence and how you can prepare for it because you can't understand it. You know, though you can't try and understand what a truly violent person is thinking, but you know typical trends of behavior and know how to kind of prepare and defend yourself against it. So having the book club has been really fascinating to be able to open our conversations to talk about these topics, which are typically taboo. You don't usually go and meet up with a bunch of women talking about violence, but we talk about it all the time. And we're, you know, uh pretty mindful of historical concepts of it and criminal concepts of it and ways we can stay safe against it.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

I think there's a big difference between discussing violence for the sake of instilling fear and discussing violence as a way to sort of shel back the layers of understanding. Because once we start dissecting, it's a little bit like being familiar with a firearm. When we first get the firearm, as you said, we carry it around like this thing could go off at any moment. When we understand the mechanics of it, not so much. Suddenly the mystery is is taken out of it and we feel confident in our ability to control it. The same thing with violence or being targeted for a crime. Once you take the mystery out of it, because these things don't happen in a vacuum, if you know how to scan your environment and if you know what to look for and when to look for it, the mystery goes out of that too. And that again is another layer of empowerment.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Yeah, and understanding too that violence itself is neutral, how it's applied, you know, um being a self-respon, you know, defending yourself, defending your children, there's not a negative morality to that. Inflicting violence for protection. So a lot of women have to work through that kind of emotional response to this whole process of being your own first responder as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

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SPEAKER_00 27:24

Well, we have that at our fall fest. That's we host the only all ladies three-gun match in the country. And every year we have different stages that are just lots of fun. That uh one year we had a movie theme stage, everything was a movie. So the G.I. Jane stage, ladies would climb up in the Humvee and engage some some quasi-long-range targets. Um, we had different movies, um, it was just lots of fun. We had, you know, I don't know, every movie was a different theme, or every stage was a different movie. And then last year we had board game themes, so that was really fun. So, like we had a shoot house and it was the clue mansion, and we had uh one stage that was shoots and ladders. So you used your shotgun to engage targets up to a ladder. You go up the ladder to a platform, you engage some quasi-long-range targets with your rifle, some close into ones too, and then you slide down the slide into the pistol area. Um, we had um operation that was the giant operation board, and where the breadbasket and the wishbone were, those were your ports to engage at 600 yards.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

So like, did it go eh when you hit the pit?

SPEAKER_00 28:23

When you hit the target, it actually had a nose that lit up. Yeah, it's so much fun. We have so much fun. We have costumes and we have prizes, and just our matches are unbelievable. Our events, a girl in the gun events are unbelievable. If anyone comes to our national events, our national conference is coming up in a few weeks, and every morning starts with a dance party safety brief. When you walk come to the range, you walk the red carpet. There's just nothing like the atmosphere of a girl in the gun. So I always say that our culture is we don't powder puff anything, our training is rigorous, our standards are high, our matches are probably the most challenging you will go to all season. But we will have a culture that supports you and cheers for you and encourages you. And that's really what makes a girl in the gun special.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

So talking about training, what separates, in your opinion, good training from from bad, or maybe good training that sticks?

SPEAKER_00 29:15

I think that just having a great cadre of instructors or knowing who to go to and who not to go to. I remember 15 years ago, it was really hard to tell women uh that the instructor in your area that's on a pedestal that everyone worships is not giving you good advice. And sometimes when you're new and you don't know that, you just take this guy at the range. Well, he says he's former SF, he must be the end-all be all. I'm just gonna listen to what he says. Or, or you know, my uncle was a cop for 30 years, he must be the best shooter on the planet. And until you get out of that bubble and you start recognizing here's what a um a resume or a CV of a professional structure should look like. Here's the you know, insurance they carry, the training they've had, the um the hours of the range, the events they go to for training, uh, the students that go to them. So knowing what to look for in that, I think that says a lot. I look at who's training with whom is a big indicator for me. In terms of the actual content, obviously safety is paramount. Any instructor that doesn't talk about uh have a safety brief before you touch guns and gear, uh just reviewing the four rules of gun safety and being mindful of the safe table and uh having a quality RO watching behind the line, just making sure that it's a safe environment. If anyone feels unsafe, that's your first uh invitation to leave. Uh so I think just that comes with time as well, is understanding what um what skills should be discussed in a class and and what you should be getting out of it uh from a class that you pay for. But the reputations of the instructors I think will really gauge that and you'll be able to walk into that class with confidence. I'm really lucky that I watched people in my circle and my friends and my colleagues, and I see who they're training with, and I want to go train with them. And then I'm fortunate to be able to make those relationships to bring them to the ladies of a girl in the gun so that they don't don't have to worry about, you know, vetting these instructors I've already done it for them.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

That's fantastic. So, what experience are you hoping a brand new shooter takes away from one of your meetings?

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Really just understanding the four rules of gun safety, the basics, and having the confidence that you can do this. A lot of ladies come to us for different reasons, whether it's to be uh unafraid of the firearm, whether it's to get past some past trauma, whether it's just to try something new and feel stronger in their life where they are. We have a lot of women coming because they're post-divorce or post-retirement and they're just looking, you know, they're empty nesters and they're like, where is my life's purpose? You know. So let's get you some fun, let's get you some empowerment, let's uh really challenge yourself. And that is another kind of key goal of a girl on the gun is to choose adventure, to choose courage. I always tell our ladies, I go to a three-gun match, or I choose to give a speech, or I do something that's a little bit scary so that I know when I have to do something scary, I can. So by putting yourself in these situations, whether it's force on force or whether you're doing a challenging class or you're shooting a match that's challenging, or you're doing anything that makes you just a little bit, uh, a little bit worried, but you know you're in a safe environment, practicing those skills will help you with the repetition and it'll give you confidence in yourself that you know I'm doing this because I choose to do hard things today, knowing that when I have to do hard things, I'll be able to.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

I love that because there is there's the building up uh immunization to stress, and you do it in small steps. Public speaking is a great example. People have a huge fear of public speaking, so network and public speak. Go to a shooting competition that stretches you, gets you out of your comfort zone. Because if you can manage your heart rate and the emotion that comes with that, and you're doing it as a choice, you're exactly right that should the worst happen, and now emotions are being thrust on you that you you didn't opt for in a situation you didn't want to be a part of, you feel, at least in part, that you have the tools necessary to manage how you respond.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Yeah, absolutely. A lot of our training is just giving you a mental checklist. So you have a place to start instead of just staying in the panic zone. So you have a place to say, okay, this happened and what do I do? What are my checklists? And just start going down the list so you know how to respond, you know how what action to take, and you can you know hopefully thrive through that situation.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

I love also that you said that you have classes for a little bit of everything from combatives or what I would call hand-to-hand through pepper sprays, etc. Can you talk us a little bit through what those classes entail?

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Yeah, so our combatives camp is just um, like you said, hand-to-hand. So if somebody grabs you, how to get out, some basic moves, uh jujitsu mostly, but other uh different types of just different martial arts, basic situations that women often find themselves in, whether it's held against a wall, held to the ground, just different techniques that you can use defensively to get create time and space. That's really what we want to do in many of those instances is just give ourselves some distance to give us access to our other tools or to get away. So that's really what our Combatives camp focuses on. It also reminds us that we have to be fit enough to fight, that we don't want to be delusional to think, oh, the adrenaline will get me through. The adrenaline does not help me. And so it's a good reminder of just some general um aerobic or stretching or some things that you can do on a daily basis just to make sure that you're strong enough to be able to do the things that you feel like your plan A is gonna be or is gonna need. So we just talk about that and give people some tools and some skills to take home and work on, but just knowing a couple easy moves and grabs if somebody's coming after you with a certain uh maneuver, how to block it, how to strike against it, just a lot of women have never been in a fight. Um I've never been in a fight, don't want to be in a fight. Want to be in a fight. Yeah, but it's uh it's a it's a new and scary thing. So if I can introduce it to them in a way that's not super scary, they're not gonna go home with black eyes, they're just gonna go home with a regular amount of I went to the gym soreness, but they'll come away with a whole lot of confidence and knowledge. And that's really the goal. So I've been to a lot of combatives camps that I have come home with black eyes and bruises because I'm usually the only woman in the class. I don't know what I'm doing. I never didn't grow up wrestling and doing jujitsu like all the guys in the class. And so I came home and I thought, how can we create this environment for other women that they don't have to go through that, but they can still get the takeaways, they can still understand defensively. Here's the distance I need to go to my firearm or to go to to get away, here's what I need, and so that they really have those actual tools and knowledge to be able to stay safe.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

I think one of the things that combatives teaches everyone is just how difficult combatives actually is. If you are going, you know, one-on-one with an attacker, even if you're the same size, same weight, absolutely exhausting. It's funny, I used to teach muay thai and boxing a long time ago, and I had an individual who was a tri-athlete come in, and he's like, I'm gonna try this Muay Thai Malaki. And one of the things I would do with my first-time students is kind of run them through the gauntlet a little bit. I didn't beat up on anybody, but I kind of tested them. Let's figure out where you're at, right? And part of my theory behind that was a lot of the people that were coming to learn this stuff had had some experience somewhere along the line, whether that's karate or boxing or taekwondo, and I always said the same thing. If if I can't kind of either hold my own or or show you where the holes are in your defense, then I probably shouldn't be teaching you. And so we would spa. Lighthearted sparring, but we would spa. I'd put all the gear on, headgear, gloves, mouthpiece, like let's go. And I would do that for two or three minutes with beginners. Because two or three minutes is an eternity when somebody is hammering on you. And I this guy said, You're kidding. Like he was actually insulted that I said we were only gonna fight for three minutes. And I said, I think you're underestimating how tiring it is. And he's like, I do triathlons, like this past weekend. I went out on a 150-mile bike ride just because, and I said to him, I'm sure you did. And that's very impressive because I would die on a 150-mile bike ride. But this is not the same as that. This is not a you know, a steady paced, let's just push kind of sport. And it was funny because he insisted we do five minutes, so I set that timer up for five, and I said, Okay, fine. Two and a half, and I pushed him pretty hard. I will admit, okay, I didn't do what I did for everybody else, but I pushed him pretty hard. Two and a half minutes later, he's in the bathroom throwing up in a in a basket. I mean, he's just absolutely cooked. And it was funny because he I had no idea. And I said, I know, and that's part of the problem. And it's part of the problem, I think, for most people. If you are going to do some sort of combative training with boxing, jiu-jitsu, something, the there's a totality of exhaustion that settles on most people exponentially faster than they would ever have thought possible. And one of the things I would ask in a lot of my conferences, and it was teaching and and speaking, would how long do you think you're going to last in a flat-out fight? And I had answers ranging from a couple of minutes to 30 seconds. And I'm like, You want to try five seconds? You want to try 10 seconds? And you're cooked, like you've got nothing left but you hoping for the mercy of your assailant? And they're like, no. And I'm like, Yes, you'll be absolutely smoked. And it was also a lovely segue towards for those people who might have been hesitant about firearms, like, what if you didn't ever get to that level of fatigue and the fight's already over? Then you could see them go, ooh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Yeah, it's it's really when you have really taken a class that stretches you like that, it's terrifying. Um it it was very eye-opening for me knowing that I was paired one in one class I took, I was paired with the smallest man in the class. And I thought, okay, well, I've probably got 30 pounds on this kick, this guy. No, he was still stronger than me, just innately. And his hands were vice grips because he was a mechanic. And once he got my sims from me, there was I couldn't get it back, and he lit me up. And that was just so demoralizing, thinking I'm I train, I go to the gym, I'm a I'm a large woman, I should be able to handle my own against this guy. No, and that was um, there are women, purple belts and brown belts, and a lot of really skilled women, but for most of our us everyday women, it's just it's people don't realize how terrifying that kind of situation is. So if you don't have the training, you don't at least have some kind of tools on how to make a block, how to get to your gun, how to get some distance, um, even if you only have pepper spray, how to get to any kind of tool, improvised device. Uh, we do we do actually have a block in our uh combative's camp on improvised weapons. So just finding what you can't, put the put it into use in the moment, but people don't realize, like you said, how long five seconds is when you're panicked. And so you don't want to spend your five seconds panicked. You want to spend your five seconds going down your checklist of here's what I need to be doing. Because it's it's it's pretty intense. So I love offering that to women in a way that is not terrifying. I want them to it to be approachable because if I go around telling everybody that combatives is terrifying, they won't come to the class. So I want them to come and learn it. I will make it not terrifying, but give you skills because if you were to go take some other classes, it would be it would be very uh almost demoralizing, really, because here you are thinking you're this strong, empowered woman and put up against a man, everything changes. It's just the the physiology of it all.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

There's also the approach to it, right? It's uh it's making it not only something that she feels she's capable of doing, but making the experience as fun as possible. You learn the lessons by all means, understand your physiological and psychological response to stress and how to manage it, but bloody hell, can we have a laugh along the way, please? I've been to so many classes and the instructor, I'm like, dude, you're killing me. Like, whoever it is, I'm like, throw some humor in there, would you? Like, let's have fun while we learn. And it's so much so different to go to a class where you're like, okay, yeah, if I if I screw up, this is obviously depending on safety aside, right? It's your safety, right? If I screw up here, we're all gonna laugh about it. It's not gonna be me humiliated because I didn't do something the way it was being taught. But but bringing some fun and taking some of the pressure off where it can be, I think is Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

That's me going, hey, can you give me your arm so I can pin it? Yeah, that's me. That's about how I roll in combatives. I'm like, I can't reach you, I can't pin you like this, so I need you to move into position to help me. Like that the bad guy, I'll be like, hey, bad guy. Come on. I'm gonna need you to move your leg that way a little bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Work with me a little. Right. So I assume that uh some of this training also in includes shooting from retention. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Yeah, there's a lot of times we have to shoot from retention. We have a lot of training that does. So when we do our our Drift Academy is all airsoft because we're doing vehicle bailouts and we're doing uh, you know, some kind of teams work, just given that you're never really in your you're in your car by yourself, but we want to plan for when your family's with you as well. So we don't have time within, you know, a one-range day to really work that up in live fire. So we do all that in airsoft. But there are times when we have to talk about how to work from retention because in a vehicle, you've got close quarters right there. You might have to have time to get to extension, you have to work in the environment you're in, which might be a really close parking garage. So there's different times when we talk about that, and then um just different classes that we offer. Of course, competition. Um it really depends on the class. At our national conference, we have a little bit of everything. So that's the beauty of conference is that we have the best of the best instructors coming in, and and we have 700 ladies training on the range, and we offer classes from defense, competition, everyday carry, three gun, sporting clays, archery, hunting, gunsmithing, legal topics, fitness, wellness, ground fighting. Like if you name it, we do it. We've been bringing the bird and they shoot from the helicopter. So uh ladies, literally every topic you can think of, we do at our national conference. So we definitely have some uh close quarters classes that shoot for more tension there.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

And how about the psychology of engaging threats at in you know close approximation to or close proximity to you? Because one of the things I've run into the past is everybody it seems very comfortable with violence at a distance. If I can get my shots off when they're seven yards away, perfect. But if they're within one yard or even up in your grill, there's a very different type of mentality needed to be effective at that distance. So is that something else that the the women are learning?

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Yeah, absolutely. In fact, I posted on my Facebook page today a picture of my rifle. I was shooting my rifle and I said, it's like magic. A little explosion happens here and then something falls down way over there. It's just we're we like it. We like our personal space, you know, we don't want anyone close to us. But yeah, definitely when someone is up in your face, we talk about that a lot, uh, making sure they don't get distance in the first place by your situational awareness, by your, you know, knowing your surroundings, knowing your escape routes, all of that kind of stuff too. But if they do what to have the have the skills to be able to handle the situation to create distance so that you can escalate the tools that you felt need need to be used in that job.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Yeah, one of the things I would stress quite a bit, especially for women, is we tend to find it a little easier to understand an attack by a stranger, someone we don't know, someone that doesn't know us, and of course they couldn't possibly know what a nice person we are, so that's why they're doing the thing they're doing. But unfortunately, as is so often the case, women tend to be victimized by people they already know. And it's getting their mindset around the fact that they may they might need to implement those skills with Bob. Bob that 10 minutes ago was the nicest guy ever and suddenly isn't the nicest guy ever, and getting over that emotional hurdle of understanding my life's in danger or I am in danger in some way, and now I need to deal with Bob and the mindset that comes with that, and one of the tools I try to stress is the minute Bob does something you don't like, and you know you're gonna have to respond and physically restrain or stop him in some way, Bob stops being Bob. Bob becomes it because it is causing us a problem and it is doing something we don't like, and I need to stop it. And it's a uh it's tough, but if you think about it, uh when it comes to criminal behaviour, we as the victims are often dehumanized by them. We need to reverse that, in my opinion. And if somebody's doing something you don't like, even if you knew that you know them, categorizing them and dehumanizing them in a way that says I'm now capable of doing whatever is necessary to it to get it to stop, is a powerful tool to get past that what could be a very costly pause in their defensive response. Thoughts and opinions, and please feel free to shoot me down if you don't agree.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

No, I completely agree. I I think the word you use that's the key word there is have to. Do I have to do something right now? It's not do I want to? No, you don't want to. This might be the father of your children or someone that you've been in a relationship with for a long time. That's the statistical reality of where women live in our society today. Uh, violence against women by their intimate partners is incredibly high. And so uh it is a conversation that we talk about. In fact, uh it was brought to very close to us. We had a member, one of our founding members, she had been in a girl in the gun for a long time, trained at the highest level, you know, was going to all the all of the training classes, and um, she was her life was taken by her husband, and um he took his own life too. So these three precious little girls were left without parents, and it was awful. And all of us were not only mourning the loss of our friend, but shocked at how could she not see this coming? Here we are training, living this life, talking about it all the time. How does she not see it? So a lot of it may be that she didn't want to see it, didn't want to believe it, or else she just couldn't bring herself to, like you say, recognize that this person who I loved and and had a life with is now not that person. So uh it is a a really difficult conversation, and we do a lot of uh we have some resources on our website for women who are in crisis, women who are just exploring those kinds of situations because unfortunately it is a reality of the world with intimate partner violence.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

That's bloody heartbreaking. It really is. The one person you should be relying on to protect you, not victimize you. It pisses me off, it really does.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Yeah, it's really hard. And so we talk a lot about how you would conceal carry at home, how you will make sure that you have access to your firearm and no one else does at home, uh, to make sure that you're safe. There are a lot of stats that are constantly talking about how women are are higher victims than men, and I just feel like if women had more skills or more tools or more training, then perhaps that great equalizer would save more lives.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

Agreed. And knowing that there is a community like yours out there for them to go to, I think is the one of the the first most important steps. Look, it was for you. You showed up, you were a nervous Nelly, you weren't sure, I don't know, these women scare me. And then what, two weeks later, you're like, oh yeah, I've uh been volunteers to help train the next incoming nervous Nelly. But that is that empathetic and and and real approach to helping teach, that's so powerful in getting women or any first-time person to firearms involved in the shooting sports. It really is.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Well, with firearms too, there's a lot of emotion that comes along with it. And being part of a women's group where we can talk about those things. I don't know if you guys go into the range and talk about that stuff, but I would imagine it's different with us where we can talk about vulnerabilities of um, if you have a person in your family that's in going through crisis, teenagers struggling with mental health, or you know, how do you secure your firearms about against all of that? There's a lot of things that moms and grandmothers have to really uh find resources for. And it's such a taboo subject that it's sometimes it's hard to find resources on where to get help. And so with Intimate Partner Violence, we have some resources and some links to places that can provide that specialty care and give you the services you need and additional resources on how to secure your guns when someone in your family needs help as well. So those are real mom issues that moms talk about. And it if you love your family and you want to protect your family, part of being a responsible gun owner, not only for yourself, but is maintaining your guns for others as well in your immediate domain.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

I agree, and I actually think it's something that men should be doing more. The older I get and the wiser I get, the more willing I am to be vulnerable in front of other guys. Talk through talk through feelings, talk through concerns, let them know that they're not alone. I don't think guys often do it enough, and it can be difficult to be the first person to say, you know what has been worrying me this week, especially as a guy, you're you're gonna have to take a lot of crap when you stop.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Yeah. Well, I think anybody too has pride, especially if you are a gun owner and you do training and you have this sense of independence and competency that you don't want to express that vulnerability. So that's another resource we have on our website is a kind of a self-checklist. Um, it's a personal safety plan. So you can make your personal safety plan so that when you're having a great day, you can fill out all these things. Like, how would someone in my immediate circle know I'm not having a good day? Maybe I haven't I haven't showered in a couple days, or I haven't called a certain person that I usually talk to, or you know, what are some indicators that people close to me might notice? Hey, I just might need someone to check in with me. So you can to write this down and then say, at this point, you know, you get to make all of these decisions in advance so that you're completely control of the situation, you're completely bought in. It's your Second Amendment rights are protected and respected. And so you can make a plan for who can get involved with me and what happens to my guns or my family's guns or whatever. Just we've really tried to give a lot of resources so that people can stay safe through a variety of situations that different families encounter.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

So I'm gonna stir the pot now. So when it comes to the performance standpoint, what do you think women tend to do better or pick up faster than men do when it comes to firearms? I have an opinion on this, but I want to hear yours.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

I think women are usually accuracy first shooters. And so I think that a lot of women will take a long time to get that first perfect shot every time. And so uh that is something though, they're they're really great at accuracy. They love accuracy, they want it to be, you know, have really tight groupings. Um, and I have to encourage them to go a little faster and break that down a little more. Um, but I find that women are usually a little more accurate where men are just trying to throw rounds down range and women will really want to to be accurate. That's what I see as their preference when they come to the line.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

It's funny. I think the biggest hurdle for male shooters, generally speaking, is if they've shot before, there's a good chance they already know all there is to learn.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Well, that's true for sure. That's true for sure. Women are a blank slate for the most part in that they'll take they'll take advice. And that's something we really encourage with our students is we're we have a lot of different types of instructors. So we have competitive shooters that are giving competitive classes and teaching you how to play the game of this sport, which is going to be a completely wildly different uh skill development than if you're running a shoot house or you're doing defensive training. A lot of the skills will cross over, but in theory and context, there's a lot of differences. And so the way a concept might be presented might be completely contrary or sound contrary to something that you heard from another instructor a week ago. And yet, so it's kind of my job to help thread the needle through all of that to say, well, here's what they're saying about grip and here's why it applies across the board, or here's what they're saying about their sites and and how you use them and for both contexts. So a lot of times um I just have to really empower those ladies to find the commonality between all of them instead of uh finding the the contrast. Because if it's a good instructor and they're giving you good, solid advice, a lot of it's gonna really cross over, although they might be coming to it from different places.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

No, I completely agree. A lot of it comes down to the approach, and I've had some amazing guy shooters show up and go, you know, I I just want to learn something new. Give me a couple of things, and they've they've soaked it up like sponges.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

But a lot of women are really good at like saying, Okay, I like this from this, the way you said that, I like this the way you said that. Instead of men are a little more like, well, I already know all that.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

Yeah. I always gravitate towards instructors that say, Here's how I have done it, here's how I've seen it done, let's see if it works for you. So it's very much a coaching experience rather than a not sort of this is the only way, it's my way or the highway kind of teaching, because there are so many variables at play with even somebody's ability to grip. An elderly person might not be able to get that you know competitive pistol grip going on the way that you know somebody else might that's younger. It's always about okay, where are you at now? Can we get you just a few steps further down the road in your skill set?

SPEAKER_00 55:08

It did not used to be that way. 15 years ago, it was this is the way we do it, do it because this is the way I was taught. It's just the way it is. And that's really evolved. Yes, it's so good to see. We have a whole hour-long conversation on slide manipulation. A lot of instructors, you know, our old school instructors will just say to a new shooter, rack the slide. And she's like, I don't have the strength, I can't. Well, I guess shooting's not for you, you know. So we have a whole hour-long uh talk about how to manipulate the slide, how to grab it. Do you go over? Do you go claw? Do you, you know, there's so many different do you push-pull? There's so many different techniques to find what your hands can do, what your body can do, so that you are successful because it's about technique more than strength. Yeah, and we don't want people to just walk away and say, Well, oh well, give it a try.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

Yeah, no, no, that's the last thing we want. Like, no, okay, maybe even the caliber of that gun and the spring in it is too hard. What about this one? There's always blood.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

Sometimes when ladies come with a gun and I'll say, How much do you love this gun? And she'll say, Well, my husband gave it to me, and I'll say, 'How much do you love your husband?' Because this gun is not for you.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

Yeah. Yeah, it's and same thing for guys. I had a guy show up at the range and his his first gun was a 50 cal. I'm like, what are you doing? Like the fair the runs and those things. Just yeah. He's like, it was the biggest gun I could find.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

That tracks.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

I'm like, yeah, okay, that absolutely tracks. But it was just weird to watch. And I'm thinking, this is the first gun you started with. It was, yeah, I if I was gonna get one, it was gonna be a hand cannon. I'm like, let's see if you're accurate with it. And he had a really hard time manipulating the slide with that too. And I'm like, yeah, it stands to reason.

SPEAKER_00 56:51

Yeah, and if you're not successful with it, it's not gonna be as fun. The better you shoot, the more fun you have. That's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

Yeah. Well, I also agree with you about women always tending to be much more likely to take their time looking for the perfect shot rather than looking at the shooting as a situational thing. And you know, you don't need a one-inch group, a four or five-inch group on this target in this circumstance will absolutely suffice and get the job done.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

Encouraging them to go a little faster is usually part of the first part, but also getting ladies to uh just come to class. I think the biggest difference between men's and women's classes is that women tend to be a little more collaborative. We ask more questions. So instead of someone waiting until the instructor's on break and sneaking over and asking a question, we just have more conversation in general. Um, and we take more selfies. That's really the only difference.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

Oh that's that's funny. All right. So if every listener took away one thing from this today and they applied it, what would that thing be?

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Well, for me, I would say go to a girl in the gun, find a girl's night out near you, go get the training, look at our website, agirlandegun.org, and find an event that speaks to you of training that you'd like to learn, whether it's learning how to shoot this the sport of three gun or whether it's becoming a Glock Armor or whether it's going to our Drift Academy or a national conference or any of the our clays extravaganza. We have a big clay shoot. All women, over 100 ladies, come out and shoot clays. So, whatever your jam, we offer something for that. Just the important thing is to keep training, keep growing, keep asking those questions. Um, there's always something more to learn. And that if you stay in that static, indoor range, regular targets, you're gonna get bored. And a lot of women's groups get pigeon-holed into that new shooter space because it seems to be the same new shooter, like someone's new, we're gonna go over the basics, someone's new, we're gonna go over the basics. And a girl in a gun is structured so that you really can advance through. We have different color tracks, so we allow different opportunities. So that while people are working on the fundamentals, new people are working on the fundamentals, other people are challenged in a greater way. And then we layer that with other opportunities through our other events. So jump in, don't stop learning. Um, whether it's the book club or any of the things that we do, um, you're welcome to join us. If you know a lady in your life, I'd love a recommendation.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

Fantastic. And I I love a couple of things about this. First, that there is a capacity to make sure everybody is training where they are and then growing from there. It's not just structured towards first-time shooters. And I absolutely love that you didn't start shooting until 2011, where a nervous Nelly and went from that to where you are now. I think that's uh inspirational, like bloody good job.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Thank you. I'm really fortunate to have really amazing friends in the industry that have coached me and encouraged me. And I have an amazing group of women around me that not only wants to help me be a better shooter, but be a better woman. I think that's what it's all about. Uh, we share all of life's adventures and tragedies and all of it, but coming out through it stronger and better. And, you know, I I see our ladies, there's we have 78-year-olds running through the woods in a jungle run with a PCC. Like, how can you even slow down? Like, I have all these amazing women to aspire to. So I just want everyone to live their best life.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:11

That is fantastic. Well, thank you so much for stopping by to tell us about that and share your journey. That was brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Thank you for the invitation. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Thank you to everyone who tuned in for today's episode. Hopefully, you enjoyed it as much as I did because this was brilliant. Uh, don't forget to like, share, and subscribe. Your support for the channel helps us keep doing what we're doing and bringing you the guests that you want to hear from for now. Thank you for tuning into this episode, and we will see you in the next one. Cheers.