The Mick and Dave Show. So you think you know everything about plastering , but do you really ???

🧱🎙️ SO YOU THINK YOU KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT PLASTERING… BUT DO YOU REALLY? 🤔

You’ve been on the tools for years. You know your skimming from your rendering, your floating from your setting, and you reckon there’s not much about plastering that anyone can teach you.

Well… let’s see, shall we? 😂

In this episode of The Plasterers Podcast – The Mick & Dave Show, we put plastering knowledge to the test.

Whether you’re an old hand who’s been spreading muck for 40 years, an apprentice just starting out, a lecturer, or somewhere in between, have a listen and see how much you REALLY know about the trade.

There’ll be plastering, a bit of knowledge, plenty of opinions and, naturally, the usual Mick & Dave banter and bollocks along the way. 😂

☕ Get yourself a brew
🧱 Put the trowel down for half an hour
🎧 Stick the podcast on
🤔 And see whether you know as much about plastering as you think you do!

🎙️ THE PLASTERERS PODCAST – THE MICK & DAVE SHOW

🎧 LISTEN HERE:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2532392/episodes/19689294-the-plasterers-podcast-the-mick-and-dave-show-so-you-think-you-know-everything-about-plastering-but-do-you-really.mp3?download=true

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:29

Hello, Mick. Hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Hello, Dave. Not three by yourself.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Yeah, good. Welcome people to the Plusters Podcast, the Mick and Dave show. What we want to talk about this evening. Last year we were on a series Tower to Teacher, and it's had thousands of downloads. You're still getting them all the time. What we'd do this evening, revisit that series a bit and you know, give you a bit more insight into teaching. So today is like you think you know everything about plastering, but do you really? So with that in mind, well, what do you think, Mick?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Well, brutally honestly, when I first started on the teaching side, it's it's a real eye-opener because you think you know everything, and you tend to find that you actually don't.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, that that's right. I was I was the same of you, you know, 30, 40 years on tools, went to teaching, and I remember and it was coming to the end of the first year, and they've just done the first years, it was called FCA exam back then. And the program leader types, you're David, look at questions. I was scared of looking at bloody level one questions, tell you the truth. You know what I mean? Because can I answer a level one paper?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Well, the stupid thing is it's the way they word them as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah, it's the way they word them. None of well, the odd things is the job knowledge questions. Let's talk about the actual online one, the sitting guild ones, you know, this time were you know they're gonna ask a question, aren't they? You know what I mean? And yeah, you you've got you might have been 30, 40 years on tools, you might never had a comeback, you might have done everything right where you've been trained, but is that the way the sitting guilds want it? And I think you'll find a lot of times it's not, you know. We we've come across many times, and yeah, yeah, lads, great lads. I can do this, do that. Yeah, can you teach someone how to pebble dash? Can you give them, you know, can you give them yeah, easy, easy? All right, fair enough. Can you show them how to cast a ceiling rose? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It goes a bit deeper than that because you've got to have a good understanding of maths as well. I remember level three paper, actually advanced craft, and one of the students coming up to me and he had a drawing, and the drawing was a gable end with an apex, and in middle of the apex was a bullseye circular window, you had two doors, no, so one door and two four windows, and you had to work out the area. Now, then that's if you don't know nothing about mathematics, that's mixed very good on mass quite honest. It's um you have a few different formulas there to get your head round before you add it up. You you you know you just a bit well, you like you. So you've got an apex, so you you've got to look at the apex and say, Well, there's a square there, and there's a triangle there, so you work out the area of the square, then you work out the area of the triangle, then you work out the area of the circle, the doors, the windows, add them all together, and then you you you subtract one from the other. And if you don't know much about maths, which quite honestly not many, you know, you know, I would be crap of mass tick, you know, it takes some doing. I had to go and learn, I had to go do extra mathematics lessons before I could actually teach it because it it were going to come up in the in the in the lessons, and there's nothing worse than in front of a group of students trying to tell them about maths and you want smart kid in class who's damn side better than you telling you you've got it wrong. That could be that could be we've got a few of them. Uh so do you think what do you think, Mick? Is that about right to that?

SPEAKER_00 4:26

It's about right, to be fair. It's and the the annoying thing is it's not only the maths as well, is it? It's the English as well. Yeah, it's like you you've got to write all your learning outcomes out, yeah. And sure as hell, there'll be a kid, there'll be a kid in there that will pull you because something's spelt wrong. Yeah, but you can get yourself out of that one because you basically turn around and say, Well, I spelt it wrong to make sure you were paying attention.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

That's the one, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

And there's all ways around it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

That was today's deliberate mistake. Well done.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

If you find any more, please let me know.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Yeah, please let me know. And and that's correct. So, yeah, so you're gonna come into teaching and oh yeah, yeah, I I can do this, I can do that. You have to make sure that your your maths is you know, on you know, you got to get at least a level, you know, a C grade, at least a C grade, you know, to to be any good.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Which works out in nowadays, and I think it's uh is it a grade four or a grade five? Is it Mick? I don't know. In the new scaling, yeah. Well they go one to nine now with one being the worst and nine being the best.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

So where are you? Four and five in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah, roughly four or five. Yeah, so it's it's like it makes no sense to me. I have to sit there sometimes and think, hang on a minute, where's that balance out? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Well, it just doesn't make much sense with all the the way they grade things. I agree with you on that one, but again, like we said, the English as well, and what it's called, you've you've got to spag now. Basically, to people, well, you I'd say 99.9% of classes won't even know what we're talking about, and that is your student submits their work to you. That needs spagging, that means you've got to check the spelling, the punctuation, punctuation, and the grammar, and the grammar, and you've got to submit it back correctly to him. So it's not a case of using the tools in the workshop. You've got to have all these other skills in place before we even talk about computer skills, picking a trial up, yeah. Yeah, then forget about picking a trial up, you can put that away. Them days you're done, mate. You know, your new tools is a computer keyboard, and and and that's particularly, and you you know and the brain, yeah, that's right, you know, and yeah, luckily these days you've got a thing called AI, chat GBT, you know, which we absolutely love, but realistically, it haven't been around that long, and a lot of teachers didn't have the benefits of actually using that, so you've had to learn these skills, haven't you? Yeah, yeah on top of all that, you've got to be pretty good with computers yourself because lessons are delivered, they're not talking choke. Talk and choke basically is like writing on blackboard and talking away at it. Them days of use the dinosaur days are done. They've gone now, they've gone, yeah. It's all IT, whether you're teaching plastering, a-level mathematics, or whatever, it's all IT, and so you have to have pretty decent IT skills because you'll have a you know, you might have a class of 16 people, young lads, girls, and whatever. Oh, can you help me with this? And can you help me with that? And if you can't sort it out, you look alright, bloody idiot.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Exactly. So always find your cube computer geek in your class as soon as you can, because they can be your best friend when it comes to anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

You know, that that that's right, that it is, yeah, yeah, that that's right. Find out who's bloody good computers. That's it. Yeah, no, that that's it, and yeah, so you know, when when you if we're making the switch, and uh another thing that you really need to focus on, not only your maps, your English, your IT, your knowledge of the plastering trade. You know it all. No, you don't know it all. You do not know it all, nobody knows it all. You know, you might you might know a good selection, and what what you need to do is get as many plastering books as possible, the old ones, read them up because they're gonna get your knowledge, that's when you that's what possibly some new ones. Well, yes, we're gonna say some new ones coming out written by I don't never mind, we'll let her go later and we'll flog that one later.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Yeah, but you need to be reading the books and gaining the knowledge, and yeah, you can look at it, and then putting that knowledge into practice, especially workshop side if you've never done them them tasks, and classroom side, you'll need to gump and gump and gump and gump some more to get all the knowledge in. That's correct, yeah. Because yeah, the first time you run a lesson on something you're not sure about, you then look back at that one and go, okay, what went well, what went, what didn't, and then you want to try and improve what didn't.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Yeah, yeah. You know, one of the hardest things you can actually teach is called a raking mold. Right? I don't even you're probably up with this, Mick. It's running a cornice mold in situ down a staircase, so you're coming along, yeah, you're coming along a landing, you're then running the stair the mould down the staircase and picking up at the bottom, and that requires three templates, and it's all got to be drawn out basically. I delivered that lesson several times, and quite honest. I struggle with every I struggled with every time nobody could quite get their head around it. I think that's one of the most difficult things in the practical workshop that you can actually do, and it quite honestly don't make sense to me, even though I've taught it and done it, it still don't make bloody sense. The raching mould.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Well, it's it's not just the fact of the actual technical technicality of it, it's rewording it so it makes sense to the actual learners. That's right, and that can be harder than actually explaining it in technical terms.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

You've got to break it down in simplistic terms, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

That's it, you know, and and that's half the battle.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

It's half the battle, it is half the battle, and uh you know, you we can do that, you know. These are things you you're going to come across as as a teacher. Yeah, you know, you're not just gonna be teaching, oh, this is how you skim a wall, this is how you float, this how you dot and screen, how you use a derby. There's a bit more to it than that, and they realistically, I don't know if they're still teaching advanced craft, I think they're trying to bring it back in. And when you do teach advanced craft, these are the things that you need to be covering and will have to cover. And you, you know, your program leaders, your head of departments like space, and all they'll say to you, well, you've got your level three, you've got your level three teachers, yeah. And that's where you have to do your own personal research and all the things along with it.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Is that right? Yeah, exactly. It's yeah, most definitely, and that's where the summer used to come in really really good because if we ever had anyone that wasn't up to speed on something, we used to take them all in the workshop and we'd work his way through it, yeah, with the actual tutors that weren't that good at that that area, yeah. So it was a case of building build building the trades up again, yeah. And we've we used to have some fun doing that.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Some really good fun. I can imagine because we're taking piss out of each other. Why are you doing it? What are you type of thing?

SPEAKER_00 12:37

And oh massively, but then we've we've missed one of the one of the main ones out. Go on, mate. You've gone from site, you've jumped into site work, now all of a sudden you've got to become politically correct. Yep, which basically means no swearing, fucking out exactly, and talking talking to somebody as you would as if you were in a professional environment. Well, let's be honest, we've never done that. No, we've worked on site, yeah, yeah, and as brutally as it sounds, if anybody's cocked up, the first word that's usually come out is what the fucking hell's that?

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Can't do that, that can't happen. It's it's right, is that and what I've found as well. You know, when you're working with your apprentices, you that's the way you were used to talking to them, and then I think we because you tore like that, even though your boss is dating and you got a bollocking for doing it. Your apprentices yeah, bonded with you because that's you know, all they have laughing a crack and they're used to. That's what you're used to. Yeah, so oh, you've done this, yeah. You've done you haven't quite done that right, like make sense. So, what the fuck's been going on here? You wouldn't get away with that exactly. You wouldn't think away with that in college. Or what the fuck do you call that? What the fuck do you call that?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Correct, and that's we're gonna you're bond, wouldn't you? It's so hard when you first start to stop yourself from doing that. I've never managed to stop because it's in your head, and nine times out of ten, before you've even thought about it, it's come out of your mouth.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

That's right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

And then you stood there having to apologise because you've told this kid that basically that everything he's done is an absolute crockerfucking shit. So yeah, and it is one of the hardest things to get your brain round.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Oh, aye, because they these days what oh, you've offended me, I'm gonna report you. Oh fuck off. I report me, you know what I mean. All of a sudden you've got open EHR and you know, student services checking you, bollocking you. Well, why did you say that to that student? Well, because it would bloody true, you'd never make a living doing that. Or do you want to say, Oh, you've got it slightly wrong?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

You haven't got it slightly wrong, you've fucked up and your gaffer's not gaffer's not gonna walk through the door and go, I think you've made a bit of a mess of that. No, it's gonna be a case of what the fucking hell would you call that? Pick your tools up and fuck off. So that is true, which is quite funny because I I remember once having a a bit of a discussion with um a vice principal along the lines of this, and I actually said that statement to him. I said, Look, his foreman, site manager, boss, he's not gonna come in and say you made a bit of a mess of that. He's gonna go, What the fuck do you call that? Pick your ear up and fuck off. And his vice principal stood there and went, huh? I said, Look, you want me to make this kid employable? Yeah, being employable means he's going to learn these words rather quickly. So, do you want me to make him employable and a plasterer, or do you just want me to basically mother him and get him through a course?

SPEAKER_01 16:01

And then you're easily offended, so you might as well pack up now and go exactly in your life getting offended.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

So yeah, it's a it's an absolute nightmare, yeah. It really is. Yeah, yeah. But you know it's one of them things you go, you you go into it, and you think to yourself, yeah, I know everything there is to know, but then they throw you curveballs, like going and doing A1 assessor awards, and how to assess somebody doing something, which sounds really simple and really easy. You watch them do it, you mark the work. Yes, in effect, yes, yeah, agree, but in reality, no, no, because you've got you've got to go through every step of the actual assessment process. Does he know how to appeal the decision? Does he know what he's being assessed on? All the things like that. The joke of his make, the joke of his mick.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

You you're a you know a master plaster, and you're made in an assessment decision on this kid. Now, this kid can appeal your decision. He might have been doing it six months. You've 30 or 40 years doing it, but he can appeal your decision. What the fucking hell's that all of that? What a load of bollocks.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Well, it's it's basically just to make sure everybody's getting a fair crack at the whip and you're not biased with anybody else, isn't it? That's what it's all about, if the truth be known.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Well, you've got what you're coming at it, but realistically, you know, you so you imagine you yeah, you've got this young kid. Oh, I don't like what you've said to me. Oh, I think my work's perfect. So if he's appealed against you, what's he gonna do then? You your word against is you're gonna stand up against a six-month new lad apprentice, first year apprentice. You know what I mean? Oh, you're wrong, who's gonna you know what I mean? It don't make sense, does it? Yeah, it does not make a bloody.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

It doesn't, but I I understand why it's there. I understand why it's there. It's um it's like some people take offense with some some kids straight away, and I think we've all done it at some stage where you've got one that comes in, he's the biggest gobshai that's ever walked the earth. Everything you say with questions, and you're at the stage where you think to yourself, do you know what? Why am I even bothering trying to teach this kid? Because he thinks he knows it all. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and his first assessment comes around, and he thinks he's done the greatest job on this earth, and you look down the assessment sheet on every bit of criteria he's meant to meet, and he's not met any of them. So it doesn't pass straight away. His first statement is you haven't passed me because you don't like me. I'm gonna appeal. Yeah, okay, appeal against it. Appeal against it. So we go and get the other assessor, he comes in and has a look, gives him the same grade. What does he do then? You can only mark off what's on that criteria sheep.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

You can only mark what's on the case.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Whether the kid's a nightmare or not, yeah. Yeah, whether it's a nightmare or not, that's the criteria you've got to meet. If you haven't met it, it doesn't pass. It's that simple.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Simple as that. Yep, you're right, simple as that. And that's it's only the you know, the the appeal and what have you. But tough. Tough try appealing away.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Well the crazy thing is if they yeah, the crazy thing is if they take it all the way through the appeals procedure, it can take up to 12 months to get one piece of work marked. And then you ain't gonna pass it now. So this this kid, yeah, this kid's not gonna pass anyway.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

If you so it's catch 22, really, yeah, you know the no the stupid thing about it is, mate, yeah, appeal. So, right, it's turned up on site, it's you know, he's skimmed a room out. Site agents come in and said, Fucking hell. What your beans are pissed, you walls aren't towel up, they're bumpy as hell. Oh, I'm gonna appeal against your decision. Yeah, right. How's that gonna work? Well, the only decision you're getting, mate, is fuck off outdoor, simple as, yeah. You know, and he's gonna put your work right because it's gonna cost money for me to put your work right, simple as, in it.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

So, yeah, well, it is, it is it's like and but a lot of that stems off how you deal with them on the their first two, three weeks in the college, yeah. It's like our guide got to the stage within the first couple of months, and they're doing their assessments. I said, right, there's the assessment criteria, go and mark it yourself. Tell me where you think you are, then I'll come and mark it for you. Yeah, so so that's where we are with it.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah, yeah. Hard work, in it, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

So it is the the the like we've said, the first two years are an absolute nightmare until you get your head around what you've actually got to do that's with the kids, but you've got all the other stuff that comes beside the kids, yeah. Yeah, the one-to-one tutorials, like how's the kid doing, what should he be doing next, how can he improve himself? It isn't just the plaster inside now.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

That's correct, and you know, most people don't even know what tutorials are and these things, so let's have a bit of a recap now, then. Okay, so I've got my job, I've gone into teaching. I'm a good plaster, I've been on tools 30 40 years. I've I've walked in the classroom, all my kids are going to sit there, well behave, respect me, and I'm gonna know everything and everything there is to teach. Is that correct? It's not gonna happen. What do you mean it's not going to happen? I know what I'm doing. It's going to happen. Why? I know what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

No, you don't. No, you don't, trust me. Why don't I? You're going to have a group of sixteen minimum. Yeah? Yeah. And I can guarantee you out of that sixteen, you're going to have at least four or five that are going to be an absolute nightmare that won't wanna listen, won't want to do what you ask them to do, and just basically try and disrupt everything you do. What you're gonna do. Yeah? Yeah. Bearing in mind you can't scream and shout at them and swear them. So you've got to politely try and coax these four or five kids into doing what you want them to do. That would be one of your biggest challenges.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

The only way you can do that is basically talk to the lads that have been there a while and pick their brains. Because there's a lot of ways to do things that will make these kids engage and do what you want them to do. But you've got to find out what motivates them to get them to do what you want them to do.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

You know what I mean? My first day as a teacher, I would teach in a level three group. First theory lesson. I walked into a lesson and they sat there and the first thing they said to me, we're gonna give you a nervous breakdown. Anyway, lesson started. No one listened. And this student walked in, big lad. Lesson started at one o'clock at 20 past one and walked in. Where have you been? Said, none of your fucking business where I've been there. Sit down, so he sat down, got his phone out, and started texting and says, Do you mind pulling me text in your phone away? He says, No, I'm texting. So he finished his text. I said, Ray. And then he turned around, ignored me, and started talking to the lads behind him. Walking up, he's ignoring me. So I says, Come on, get on with your work. He stood up, challenged me and face I fucking hear you. He didn't even know me. And he stood at me and basically I had to I had to stand him down and shout him out of the classroom. He got expelled on the very first day of his level three course. He got expelled. It could have ruined my teaching career that was a big lad. You know what I mean? It could have put me off for life. The college tried to keep him on board, but I refused to teach him. They would put an argument up against me. Well, I'll give him another chance. Well give him another chance, he would beat me up. And and and that's you know, that's the type of thing you're gonna come across, especially mainly more in in the city areas, I should imagine. You know, you get gangs in class. It can be fun.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah, it can be fun.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah, challenging.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Uh it can be very challenging. It will make you want to think, God, I just want to punch his school in. Yeah, but obviously you can't. Yeah. Different ball game if he punches you, because then you've got a great claim coming in. Because you're never gonna be able to teach in a classroom again, you're gonna be too terrified, all the rest of it. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's just it's one of them it's one of them where uh you're in what I class is in a semi-no-win situation. So you've got to look strong because you try and talk them down, some of them will, some of them won't. If they don't talk down, then your best bet is basically get somebody else in with you.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Thing is as well, uh when a kid gets to that stage, he can't lose face to his mates because he's created a situation and he has to stand his ground, otherwise he looks weak to his mates and what have you. So he's gonna that situation, but there were another situation that arose in my first year bloody night, maybe tell you truth. So I went to a workshop and they were playing cricket down central workshop. Fucking hell, here we go again. So I walked up and said, Come on, lads. And this lad put his fists up to me. What are you doing? He says, Come on. I says, What are you doing? Come on, get your fish. I said, What are you gonna do? He says, I'm gonna say, Well, if you're gonna hit me, hit me. What are we gonna do? I said, I'm gonna fall on the floor. I'm they're gonna go form police and you'll be locked up tonight. He says, chicken shit. I said, I might be a chicken shit, but you're going to prison there. You know what I mean? And they were like exactly you know, these like you just said, you know what I mean? You these are things which people do not realise when they come into the teaching game that challenges you're gonna face, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Yeah, there's a lot of challenges. And you can't you can't you can't do what you do on site and turn around and say, alright, then come on, then outside. No, exactly, you can't do it, because that's what had happened.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

No, you can't go and do that. And a lot of these kids.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

So you've got to you've got to figure out to figure a way of calming this situation down rather rapidly. You do and how you do it depends on you as a person and the person you're dealing with. It can be a nightmare, it can be quite easy. We were we're quite lucky because we've got a technician in there with us anyway. So I I always just before the year starts, I always say to my technician, if I say this, it means you need to go and get somebody else. Yeah. So as soon as I come out with that statement, he's off to go and get a big wig to come in and see what's actually going on. Yeah, yeah. So it's always handy to have a technician with you and clothes with you, so that in effect is your backup statement.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Correct. And with me many times. Anyway, Mick, we're kind of running out of time on this podcast. I think we've enlightened people a little bit. I hope you've enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

If you need us to enlighten you some more, let us know and we'll go a bit deeper.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

If you've heard me dog barking in background, well, his little shitsu he lives up to his name.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

I was gonna say I was I didn't think you were gonna finish that sentence then.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Right, so we'll play a piece of music now. Hope you enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the rest of the Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not only twenty one check. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's play with Light. And you didn't hear about this one. Tell me how you like Are you up? Here's the little edge for the natural leaves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's the little ghost for the altar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's a truck stop instead of staying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mr. And the comments on Western Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. And you hear about this one Tell me I do like this one I do.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

And goodbye from me, Mick, and we'll speak to you again soon. Bye.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Always look on the light side of life. Always look on the light side of life. Like we'll see.