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Immaterial World
A dedicated and transparent space to re-center how we explore glamour, fashion, magic, wellness, culture, and everything else we love, together.
hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele
Immaterial World
VISUALIZING ASTROLOGY with Valerie Mesa
Valerie Mesa is a Miami-based intuitive astrologer, writer, and visual storyteller. A student of the stars since the age of 13, what started off as a regular hobby led to something much greater. After several years of professional training alongside experienced astrologers, and countless impromptu consultations with family and friends, Valerie integrated her lifelong passion for astrology with her career in communications.
In this episode, Valerie talks about being the ultimate “astrology hype girl,” exalting planetary potential in the charts of her clients; unlocking how to approach and best flow with your personal placements; the importance of Venus; and much more.
For more about Valerie visit:
Instagram: @valeriemesa
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Hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele
For more about Jessica visit: www.the12th.house and Instagram: @jessicaxrich
For more about Jezmina visit: www.jezminavonthiele.com and Instagram: @jezmina.vonthiele
Music and editing by DIA LUNA
Instagram: @dialunamusic
Artwork by Lane Friend
Instagram: @friendlane
Welcome to Immaterial World, a dedicated and transparent space to recenter how we explore glamour, magic, culture, and everything else we love together.
SPEAKER_05:As well as the galaxy calls, we're flying in the inner material world.
SPEAKER_02:We are so excited to be here today with Valerie Mesa. Welcome to Immaterial World.
SPEAKER_00:Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. I'm so honored.
SPEAKER_03:So Valerie is the curator of an amazing aesthetic astrology meme account. How would you describe your social media presence?
SPEAKER_00:I'm like taking it all in right now. Um I genuinely am a huge uh aesthetics girly, and I absolutely love expressing myself. And I think one of the biggest reasons I got into astrology was because it allowed me to tap into those parts of myself. So yeah, I refer to myself as a visual storyteller. So all of the above for sure. Aesthetics, visual uh storytelling, graphics, things that make you feel um joy, passionate, maybe even a little bit of taboo in there. Sometimes my images are a little bit like purposely um intense and it's like to evoke a feeling. So yeah. Yeah. And what brought you to this path? How did you find your way here? Um, so you know it's interesting because I feel are you guys Pluto and Scorpio generation too? Yeah, I am. Yeah. Here we are, right? We are the weirdos, Mister. I always say that um because our generation is just so we're tapped in, right? To the darker undercurrents and the mysticism and the taboo topics. And I feel like growing up, I was always really tapped in, very intuitive, and I didn't know at the time. I I grew up an only child, I very happy, you know, childhood, my family, my cousins, my primas, I'm Latina. So I always grew up around family. Um, but I always felt, you know, things that were going on and I didn't really know how to put my finger on it. So when I discovered astrology, it helped me kind of like not put people in a box, but like compartmentalize energies and sort of like understand myself, understand the people around me. And, you know, my grandmother was always like a huge like Walter Mercado fan. I stole my mom's like Linda Goodman book. Uh I love him. Yeah, so charming. He, I mean, forever, rest in peace, king. Um, of course, he's a Pisces because he was. Um, so yeah, like just little things led me there. And um, I actually my first astrology book was from my mom's like bookshelf, and it just kind of like spiraled out of control.
SPEAKER_04:That is so cool. I love um, I love a childhood love of divination and magic, really.
SPEAKER_03:Right, right. I I remember being like, I don't want to be a Pisces. I have major Pisces placements in the 12th house, but yeah, yeah, it's but it it got me down into astrology later on in life because I was like, why am I so sad and emotional?
SPEAKER_00:I know you're another water queen, so this is in the 12th house name, like in your signature, I was like, I mean, that's really all I have to say.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, you know, I always say that like for me, astrology helped me to realize why I'm such a contrarian and to own the parts of the chart that need a lot of love. I hate when someone looks at my chart and they go, ooh, all that 12th house energy. I know that we're not going to have a positive conversation about astrology. So I own my 12th house.
SPEAKER_00:I love that.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. I think everybody should own their placements. And I actually, this is a whole other topic, but like, you know, when the signs are when certain like placements are in detriment or at fall, like, you know, whatever. I get it and I still write about it because I know that it's traditional, but obviously, like I don't care. I love me a Venus and Scorpio. I'm a Mars and Pisces, and I, you know, yeah, it's tough, but I wouldn't change it. It's in my fifth house. Like, we can find ways to, you know, cultivate those energies. And yeah, those people that kind of like judge you off of your your no, I don't like that either.
SPEAKER_04:I love joking about my Venus and Virgo in the fourth house because it makes me the weirdo turned on by work that I am. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Happy Venus returned to you. Thank you. Yes, I I love um, and that's another thing. Like speaking of Venus, like Venus is beauty and harmony, like it's it's gonna transit each sign. You're gonna tell me that when it gets to Scorpio, when it gets to Virgo, like it just stops or Aries, it stops. Like I think of Venus and Aries with like some of our greatest, the greatest artists of all time. Um, Rihanna, Elizabeth Taylor, like they have their Venus and Aries, and it's you know, it's not a goal Venus. Like, so we that shouldn't matter. I love this.
SPEAKER_03:I know your your account is so beautiful when you start taking all of these celebrities or these people of note that have these placements and really delving in and giving that beauty. So I really relate to your account. I think that you do incredible visual storytelling. Who were the the teachers or what were the tools that you used to build your own astrological knowledge?
SPEAKER_00:So I definitely have taken my fair share of courses. I my first class ever was here in Miami Beach. I'm from Miami. Um, and it was with a shaman teacher, and it was like a mix of astrology and meditation. And I will never forget like one of the first things he did was he put on, oh, your pup's so cute. Hi. Venus and Virgo right there all the way. Um, sorry, my DD. Um, so he put like on a slideshow, like Xeno Warrior Princess, like to kind of talk about like Aries archetypes, which is kind of silly and basic, but I was just so like consumed by it. And then from there I got really deep in. I mean, I started really young by myself, but then I wanted to take it to another level. Um, I believe it was when Jupiter returned to my sign in like 2013 around there. And um, I have a son in the ninth house. So like I'm a cancer. So like all of that studying and exploring led me to want to go and like go to school for it. And I was like, I want to do something different. And then from there, I started working with my mentor, who I feel so blessed to have met. She's from Venezuela, she's from here too. She lives in Weston. And she's still like my go-to source, like whenever I feel like, you know, I just want to pick her brain. But different things. I mean, a lot of reading, I think for astrologers, a lot of times we're observers more than anything. There's a lot of psychology behind it. And it's having that open mind and wanting to understand people. I really think that that's what it all stems from.
SPEAKER_04:I just love how divination is such a helpful tool for self-reflection and awareness. And like it's such a wonderful way to get to know um, I mean, your loved ones, but also strangers sometimes too. For sure. Do you believe in astrology trends? Like, what do you think the future of astrophotography might be? Or do you see um other types of astrology maybe increasing in popularity over time?
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh. I feel like with platforms like TikTok, which is very like quick and like fast consuming, I'm really impressed genuinely. Like TikTok, I I get sensory overload. I try to go in, but I'm like, whoa, and then I kind of leave and then I come back.
SPEAKER_02:But you're speaking to the right crowd here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh my god. I'm like, and I'm such a nerd. Like I used to have a live journal. I don't think I remember like live journal. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:This is not the first time live journal has come up on this show. There's something here.
SPEAKER_00:I'm live journal girly. I just started a subsect. I like like I'm a little long-winded. I like to immerse myself in things. I'm a Scorpio rising. Like when I want something, I want it all the time, you know. So it's just how I am. But like with these like quick, fast consuming vibes on TikTok and Instagram, like I'm noticing a bunch of different things. I think astrophotography is incredible. I'm not an expert, but I do uh dabble in it. Like I'll go into astro.com and um, you know, I I fell in love, for instance, with I love Los Angeles, I love art, I just love the scene. Of course, it's on my moon line. So they're like validation, like that's something that I think astrocotography is fabulous for. Um, and I think in terms of trends, I've always been a big advocate of get to know your Venus sign. Like that's something I did a project with uh one of my um, it's a brand that I work with. They're Love by Luna. They're on Instagram. You might have heard them before them before. Um, and one of the projects we did together, we had like a hello Venus kit. And I'm just such a firm believer in our Venus sign being like our happy wife, happy life. Like if we keep our Venus happy, like everything else is gonna flow for us, our, you know, money-making abilities, how we feel about ourselves, you know, what makes us feel attractive, how we call in other energies. I think in addition to astro cartography, I think getting to know your Venus sign and really like looking at the houses, for instance, in your birth chart. Like if you have, you know, for instance, I have a fourth house uh in Aquarius. So my house is like super like eclectic, like a lot of technology. My fiance's like into all the tech we have, like the electric guitar. Like, if you really pay attention to the different parts of your chart, you just see things that really stand out. So, like, definitely astro cartography may be something that more and more people will look into. But I think sometimes with astrology, like less is more. Like you don't have to learn how to read a birth chart to get to know yourself and to really celebrate yourself. Because astrology at the end of the day, for me, it's like a it's a self-empowerment tool. Um, you know, obviously it's like the little rose-colored glasses that we use to look at other people or movies or like you know, life imitates art, like astrology imitates art for me. Like it's like all connected. I hope that answered the question.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, for sure. And I would think that, you know, the the Venus sign call out is such a huge unlock. You know, when I first started getting into astrology, like really getting into astrology, I have a Venus and Aquarius in the 11th house. It's it's really like it makes sense, right? But when I first was looking at my child, I was like, there's no way that can be right because I'm such like a soft water baby. Like I have like all of these like romantic feelings, but like, truth be told, I'm like, I would, I would love to yearn for you. Like, please stay away from me, romantic partner. Like, let's keep distance between us. And like my my work is my love, and it's all about like this pioneering spirit. I don't care if no one else is doing it. I'm like, oh, good, I'm the first one to do it. And I love just being really innovative. So I would agree, like the the Venus sign is a huge unlock. That makes so much sense. I love that more than a trend.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's so important. I think sometimes like people don't, they don't take it that seriously, or they think it's just about beauty, or like let's say you're not, I mean, every I think for women, like we're constantly flowing and shifting. Like we have seasons where like we're all about self-care. And then we have seasons where we're like, oh my God, I don't even remember. Like, I need to, you know, do this or my nighttime routine or you know, spruce something up. Where for Venus, it's not always about the beauty stuff. There's so much more to it. Like, where do your talents, your gifts come alive? Like, what if you're having a bad day? Like, what can you kind of reconnect with that's a part of you that you know Venus brings to the table? Like that's your charm, that's your your come hither energy, like I would say, you know? Love that. Adopting.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's beautiful. It explains a lot of my cottage fantasies for my happy place.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I love that. I love Virgo energy. I think Virgos are just like in general, like the Virgo and vibe is so like, and and that's another thing. I mean, we could talk here for hours, but I think a lot of earth signs, are you are you a sun and earth? Or I'm a Leo Sun. Oh, okay. My mom is a Leo Sun, Venus, and Virgo. Oh my gosh, cute. Of course, my cancer talking about her mom, so typical, but um, I feel like earth signs sometimes are kind of like like kind of swept to the side. And is it just me? Like Earth. No, I think you're right.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, they they don't get enough light.
SPEAKER_00:They don't get enough love, and I think that like Virgo being so multifaceted and mutable Earth, like you guys are so hands-on and crafty and so sensual. And like, I think Venus and Virgo is a beautiful placement, it really is.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I'm super into it. When I first learned about it, it was like, oh, this is a prickly one. And I'm like, actually, that's not bad though.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, and Valerie, I'm really glad that you said, you know, some planets, people talk about them being an exaltation or they're in detriment. And there's like this very negative vibe given to certain placements. So this is it's really beautiful to reframe it in this way and just see how your chart wants to be fed. I love that. And I also want to point out something I love about Virgo too. I recently read a book about um the Marian apparitions and doing the birth charts of where people have seen the Virgin Mary, and a lot of the apparitions have appeared with like a lot of significant cancer or Virgo placements. It's super, super interesting. So even though I don't necessarily have a lot of Virgo energy in my chart, like I do relate it back to that, and it feels like this eclipse season feels like it had a little Marian energy in it.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god, totally. No, you're absolutely right. And that's the thing, like you we can, it's like people appreciate the seasons. Like, sure, there's gonna be some seasons, and if you look at your chart, oh my god, I've always been like a fall girl, I've always been a summer baby. That chances are you're below the horizon. The sun is probably transiting below the horizon when you're not feeling yourself, and it's all the way at the top when you are, right? Like those are ways to also like, you know, see what energies you vibe with. And again, as as observers, that's why I feel like there's such a, and maybe it's just me, but I just find such a strong link with art with astrology for me, because I I enjoy it and I love to observe it and I love to celebrate it in other people.
SPEAKER_03:I think that this makes sense for this next question, then, because how do we then get from you loving astrology and taking it in and thinking about it and processing it and translating it into memes? Would you even call them memes? I mean, you're doing this beautiful commercial work. You're also a writer and writing about spirituality, you know, astrology, but also spell work and also ritual work. How are you translating this information into such beautiful commercial, understandable work? Because it's it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh. I mean, I just want to have you guys on my shoulders just telling me like what's weak nothings. Thank you so much for that. Um, so I'm a very like I'm a cancer sun, moon, Mercury. Um, my Mars is in Pisces, I Scorpio rising, my Pluto's in the 12th house, my placements are in the eighth. You know, I'm very water. So I feel like my messages are evocative in the sense that the way that I process information is emotional and it's spiritual to me. So that's how I relay the message. And I'm just so happy to live in a time where we can grab our phones, open up an app, and put, you know, images together that resonate with you know how I'm feeling at the moment, and somehow find a correlation and a resonance, which I'm such a flowy person. And and my mom actually laughs at me and my partner because they're like, oh, what is it? Is it because the moon is here? Like I think when as astrologers, we always find the reason. Well, here's the thing like you know, Mercury's squaring Pluto today, so that's what's going on. But I feel that there's always depending on how I'm feeling, like it's kind of like in response to the energies, and then I just find a way for them to come together. But the expression of it is an opportunity I feel like where I kind of like I try to make it beautiful, and like maybe it's not beautiful to others, but it is for me where I'm like, oh, I really like this. You know, I the other day I shared um for the autumn, like autumn is enchanting, and I use like these really deep, like crimson blood red colors. And um, it's just an energy that I'm feeling this season, like really electric blue, like red, like it's like the colors that are calling to me. So I feel like to, you know, long what is it, short story long? It's really just about like how I'm feeling at the moment. Um, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it it does make sense. And I I've been thinking so much about how enjoyable and like bingeable your content is. And it made me want to ask you like, do you think memes or this kind of um audience, um what's the word, big audience content that you're creating, it's like a kind of spell?
SPEAKER_00:Is that some of the intention there too? I will say this. I believe a hundred percent that words are spells, like that's for sure. And I think energy flows where intention goes, right? And I, my biggest thing is like I always want, like, even with people that come to me for a reading, like you're not like I'm an astrology hype girl. Like, first of all, if I know your sign, I'm never gonna forget it. That's just how I am. But I'm I want to celebrate you. So, like, if I have an opportunity to show you, like, this is what makes your sign badass, from my perspective, and maybe that's subjective, but that's why I think you're a badass. Like, this is why I think you're beautiful. This is why I think you're, you know, amazing. And I think for the Venus uh carousels I do, or for just genuine, like fun movie pop culture things, like the mood board, I just I very much connect with like the mood vibe. And I think once again, that is very much connected to spell work. I think spell work is a form of manifestation, essentially. You know, obviously we want to manifest something. I don't believe in like the bad stuff. That stuff, like we steer away from all those things. Look at me, I'm like making my whole computer. Um, well, we steer away from those things. But um, yeah, I've written things before in my carousels that have happened really strangely. One of the things that I remember the most, I think it was last year, I did a Mercury Pluto, it might have been the Mercury Pluto conjunction in Aquarius. And I remember like creating like some digital art where like there was a train and like the train was like kind of like exploding, but it wasn't like the train was exploding. That wasn't my intention. It was more so of like the electricity and the quickness and the innovation of it, um, you know, to evoke some imagination. And something ended up happening during that transit that looked just like the photo. So I was like, okay, this was like kind of eerie, but yeah, I think everything that we tune into, give attention or love to or put energy into, you're already like, you know, it's a kite and it's it just it latches on to something.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it sounds like you had a prophetic moment in your trance state.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it was kind of freaky. I think it was like a train or something. Like, I mean, knock on wood, I I I hated seeing that, but it was like you guys, I literally I remember sharing it on my stories. I was like, you guys, I literally just shared this and this happened. But you know, on a plug, like on a brighter note, I do like the um like the seasonal ones I do. Like I'm gonna honor my shadow or I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna romanticize everything. I I think I that's another thing that I enjoy doing is romanticizing my life. So I use the memes for that. It's so fun and important to do.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yes, especially with the way the world is right now. We we have to find a little bubble of love somewhere.
SPEAKER_03:And I think that it's also just like again, going back to this idea that it's giving someone a better idea of who they are. And I think that astrology as a form of divination is so fascinating to people, even if it's just understanding their individual signs and not necessarily going into their aspects or into the houses. But are there any aspects or placements that you just love to see in somebody's charts that you want to like play favorites for a second and talk about it?
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god, I and this is such a good quote. I saw your quote. I was like, first of all, thank you guys so much for signing the question. But I was also like, oh God, these questions are so rad. Um I again, because of everything I just said, I love art, I love expression, I love softness, I appreciate it. But I also appreciate like different, it's like when you're, I don't know, like you're in the mood to have something really spicy, or like, you know, you kind of are in the mood to have like, let's just order apps today, you know? There's different charts that you see that you're just like, oh my God, like somebody who has like very Marsy um energies, like that. They have like either like a Mars, like an Aries, like and they're Aries rising, where like you could just like it's a striking energy about them that you're just like, my God, like do you know what your rising sign is?
SPEAKER_03:That's me. Literally balloons are happening. I'm an Aries, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:We're having prophetic dreams. Wait, but you have we have Mars there too. No, I have Mars and Scorpio. Oh, I'm so jealous. Oh my gosh. Yeah, badass Mars. I was just gonna get to that next. So anything that's like really Marsy that like I can just feel um a Venus and Taurus placement to me is just like swoon, you know. You talk to these people, I feel like herky jerky. Like I'm my Mars scores Uranus, so I'm like like you saw, like I almost dropped my laptop. Like I'm like, I'm like all over the place. So like when I see people that are so like grounded and soft and sensual, I really appreciate that. But I also really appreciate um, I love I might Venus is in Gemini. So like I love breezy, lighthearted, airy conversations. I have a love-hate relationship with Libras because Libras, I fall in love with Libra energy and Libras just leave me like, like, I'm so intense for Libra that they're like, okay, bye. Like I'm done with you. And I'm like, but we're not best friends. Like, what do you mean? Like, we can't get deeper into the topic because they're just so spending a day with a Libra where you go like shopping or grab coffee or whatever, it's like the best day ever. You're like, man, I'll never forget that day. They just have an ability to like decorate the room, they just decorate your life. Um, I love me like some eighth houses, some 12 housers. 12 housers to me, you guys are shapeshifters in the best way. People underestimate a 12th houser because you guys could really, you just shift into the atmosphere that you're in, but you're always it's not that you're in the background. I don't want to use that, but like you're very much tapped into that collective unconscious. So you could relay any kind of message or any emotion that's happening. You're able to like read all those different um, the languages, the emotional languages um in other people. I basically just went down the list of every sign, really. If you think about it.
SPEAKER_03:I love that. We love every sign, we love every placement.
SPEAKER_00:Celebrate every placement and it and it's so fun to see. It's so, I don't know, like, especially like on TV, like when you see like certain placements. Like, I love looking at where Venus is when you look at an award show and like you see like the red carpet, you're like, oh, this is so a show that happens during Venus and Pisces, like, get ready because you're gonna see like the most beautiful, like dreamiest hour.
SPEAKER_04:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Um, same with like a taboo. Like, I'm trying to think of things that have happened before. Oh, the day of that train thing with Mercury Pluto, that was the day that um uh Julia Fox, she posed like in the subway with like the it was just like the it was like the caution ban. Like she posed it was so Plutonian, so nequarious. So like I don't know, I just love to see it come to life. It's it's never it's a never dull moment.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so what's so interesting to me, quick follow. Yeah, Venus is in Virgo, Fashion Month is happening right now, and I will say it's it's a weird one. Like, there's a lot of creative directors that have changed over, you know, by trade. I am a trend forecaster, so this is something that I I'm really keeping an eye on, especially through an astrological lens. So this is really interesting to me. What would your thoughts be on Venus and Virgo with Fashion Week happening?
SPEAKER_00:Kim Kardashian's Nike launched. Okay, done. I mean, but practical. Totally, and she is Queen Venus and Virgo, like like in addition to being, you know, and and the Kardashians, I know that they're like a like controversial bunch to talk about, but I mean they're such a huge part of of the culture and of you know our lives. But when I see her, she has Mercury conjunct Uranus and Scorpio in her 12th house. She's a Sagittarius rising. And that Venus in Virgo at the top of her chart, if I'm not mistaken, because she also has Jupiter in Virgo, it grabs that innovative psychic taboo energy from that 12th house that she has that conjunction with. She's created a brand where like everybody feels comfortable and everybody feels sexy in, the fits everybody, the innovation, the the taboo part where she kind of like transcended that like you need to look like this and like this to wear very sculpted fitted clothing. Like there's so much to her chart. And if I had to like sum it up, I just think it's so the athleisure, like all the different, like the neutrals, but you know, the color tones being solid, practical, but beautiful. And and she loves everything minimalistic too.
SPEAKER_03:This is so interesting. Cause I'm also thinking, like, from a perspective when we're looking at all of Fashion Month, right? There's there's so much happening on a business level because, like I said, like so many of the houses have changed over creative directors, or there's been like all of these massive conversations where then the shows are happening and it's super commercial product in many places, right? It's like everybody wants to make sure they're still making money at the and into the next season where there's some serious risks happening. And I've actually been looking at some chart like some Sinastri, like especially like for Satchi or like Botega Veneta, and there's some like interesting things like that.
SPEAKER_00:You have to share that with me because I'm like, I I need I did not I haven't heard of that part of the stuff going on. I'm super intrigued.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I was also looking at, and we don't have to harp on this forever, but um, so some of the houses they're in like their 42nd to 50, 45th year of business. So some of them are going through like a Uranus opposition, which is so funny because when they started, it was like Uranus and Sag. So some of them are like straight up 80s style that's happening and it's like wild, they're like having their midlife crisis, right? So it's like either Venus and Virgo, we gotta like keep the business afloat, or it's like we don't know who we are, so we're like really going for it because we're like here to make a statement. So fascinating things. I'm really gonna be looking at these Venus moments a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god, you're like a true air Venus, you're blowing my mind right now because that's so true. It's making me think of like when Uranus, which it's gonna retrograde back, but like when I remember thinking, oh my god, Uranus is gonna oppose my natal Pluto. Like this was like 2018, 2019. Um, I can't really put into words what that was for me because Pluto's in my 12th, but like I do feel like there was like a a shedding, if that makes sense, of something that those oppositions of those generational planets. It's so fascinating. It you see, this is what I love about a like this is what I love.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I I'm going through a Pluto uh square and a Neptune square right now. Or yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's okay. It's generational. We gotta like, or like it's it's that time of my life.
SPEAKER_00:And you're Aries rising. So I mean, that's what that's what you're here for.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You're here for to go to war and and to, you know, in the best way. And yeah, Aries, Aries rising is you guys are badass, that's for sure. What's your rising? Gemini. Gemini, nice. Yeah, very chatty, very excited. Oh my god, yes. I I so resonate. And Vedic astrology is also so interesting. Um, I'm not an expert on that, but I'm a Gemini, Gemini, Gemini, and I'm like, oh, okay, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I collect triple Geminis. Um, yeah, I I don't know why I have so many wonderful triple Gemini friends.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm like, who am I today? Am I a Western girly with my regular cancer sun, moon, and scorpion rising, or am I Libra rising like Vedic? It's always fun to just, you know, kind of put myself to change hats. If that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it does. I love the way we've been talking about astrology because it feels like it's unlocking so many personal realizations and also realizations about the things we love. How do you recommend someone uh start to learn astrology, especially if they're feeling a little intimidated by all the math? Like, what's a good way in?
SPEAKER_00:You know, that's such a good question. I would, if you, these are like for the people that like you really want to get into it, but like you don't know how or when to start, just find a chart. Like, I don't know if you can like maybe print one or something, or you could even draw one where you start at Aries and like journal every time the sun is in one of those signs. Like it's starting at Aries in that little empty box. Like, write all the things that you felt are like key points that you experienced that season and like go down the list when it gets to Taurus, when it gets to Gemini. Because I mean, at the end, there's a Tony Morrison quote that I absolutely love. Um, and actually I found it in the Netflix uh documentary, The Beachella, where it says, if we surrender to the air, we can write it. And I absolutely love that because I feel like when we flow with the seasons and we actually allow ourselves to evolve, like with Mother Nature, like for instance, you know, the fall being a season of transition, it never fails. Like right before Scorpio season, we just start to feel that little bit of like, you know, the little momentum coming of the death and the rebirth. Doesn't have to be so literal, but if we flow and we allow ourselves to grow and evolve with the seasons and we pay attention to what's going on around us, again, I'm gonna sound so silly, but like I think about this all the time. I'm like, whoever hears me will think I'm so weird, but I look forward to the journey. It's such a sudden the ninth house thing to say, but like I enjoy the journey. Like I wanna immerse myself in it and I want to be as present as possible because life is so short. And I think the more social media we, you know, absorb and the more information we're constantly like, you know, just our brains are allocating constantly, the less in touch we are with ourselves. So if there's one thing that I think astrology brings to the table is that ability to reconnect with yourself through the stars and through the universe and just grow and and flow and and learn and you know, enjoy it.
SPEAKER_03:That's so beautiful and watery and romantic. I love it. When you're when you're in your own personal divination or healing, what are some of the tools that you use?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, so definitely for me, I need to ground. Like I need to walk on grass, I need to touch grass, I need to be barefoot in the park, I need to go to the beach. Um, you know, definitely grounding is huge for me. I always, no matter what, if I just change them now, I always have to have fresh flowers in the house. I feel like flowers are so important. The frequency they, you know, release, having flowers to me, that's like the best form of witchcraft there is. Like, have your altar, have your sacred space. Let your ancestors know that you know they're there. You know, even if you know they're there, don't just go about life and think they're gonna be there if you don't really give them a place. Like, let them know, like, this is for you. I baked you a cake. I mean, everybody does it differently. I always have flowers for my people. I say things out loud. Um, I pray. I prayers huge for me. I mean, again, I'm not like the traditional uh spiritualist because I pray and I believe in everything really. Um, Goddess first for me always. Um, I also do a lot of like ritual baths. I love a nice, you know, white flower drizzle of like fresh scent. Um, you know, I even use like rose water sometimes. I'll like sprinkle some crushed eggshell caccaria in Spanish. Um, it's it's very uh potent for absorbing anything that is negative and like kind of like creating a shield. Um but yeah, I would say, oh, and I like to also like for the seasonal changes, like I write a letter to um Mother Nature every year during the spring equinox, summer solstice. And then whenever the the autumnal equinox arrives, I always make like a very hearty like meat and potatoes dinner. And you know, I do it with all my love. I'm such a cancer, I'm obnoxious. I do it with all my love, you know. And when I before I eat, I'm like, thank you so much. Like for, you know, I'm I'm blessed. Thank you for my food, thank you for my blessings, like I honor the season of harvest. And yeah, that's little some of the main things I do really.
SPEAKER_04:That sounds so comforting and lovely. Ancestor reverence is such a huge part of my practice too. And I love love hearing about people doing it in other traditions and just how accessible and sweet it is. It's like you can anyone can do it, even if you don't know who your ancestors are.
SPEAKER_00:How important? Oh my gosh, you're never alone. You're angels and you're gonna always with you. Sometimes they walk into a room before you do. I'm convinced that they do.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah, yeah, so beautiful. Yeah. And so, I mean, you do so many interesting things. You do readings as well as your visual storytelling work. How can people best support your work, find your work, and or work with you?
SPEAKER_00:So valerymessa.com or just follow me on Instagram because I have everything there. And I do like one-on-one Zooms where I do solar return readings, I do a cosmic breakdown, which is like the first reading I ever really give people. I suggest, you know, people doing that so we could get to know them through their chart, through their astral, through an astrological lens. And then I have like the cosmic catch up, which is like right after I've met with you, I know you, you know, I sit with you, I can pull tarot, I can, you know, I do different things. The 12 houses, I I pull cards for each house sometimes, depending on the mood I'm in. It's really cool. So it's even it's hard to read your tarot for yourself, I'm sure, is which is you know how that is. It's so hard. Like you're biased, you're like, I'm not doing this, I put my cards away. But when it does have like the the 12 houses, and I'm really I like to journal um when I do that for myself. Sorry, off topic, but I've noticed that when it comes down to reading for myself or getting grounded, I like to move, which maybe that's my Mars and Pisces, but like I like to do movement or yoga and breathe. And as I'm moving, I get like energy and messages and I write that down because otherwise just sitting down to do tarot for myself is kind of strange. But for clients, um, I do all types of things really, but they can find me on Instagram and my website. I I always ramble. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_04:No, not at all. You're so full of great information. And also, like I love that you're sharing your process because that might be so incredibly helpful to a listener who never thought to do yoga if they're feeling stuck in a reading. Because I mean, it really does move energy through you. Like the amount of times I've done readings for people, and I'm like, your ancestors want you to dance, you'll have better ideas.
SPEAKER_00:It's just oh my god, such a thing. That is so like for me, I don't know if it's like being a Latina or what, but like movement, like that's already in my blood. Like I have to move my body. Um, but for me, because of my watery connections, I feel, of course, I always give it a reason, but God knows, God is the only one that knows. But like that Mercury and cancer, how I'm feeling says a lot about how I'm going to process information. So if I am not in the right emotional state, I know myself. Like I won't respond to a message right away. I'll give myself a minute to digest. Like that's the beauty also of astrology. Like, get to know yourself. You're only gonna, you know, you're only gonna be a better version of you at the end of the day. And and that also helps us give us ourselves grace sometimes, having a lot of water. Like I grew up with a fire fire mom who, you know, I'm an only child, so we're like best friends. She had me very young. So she was just like, let's go, let's go. And I was like, I can't, I can't. I'm like, mom, I'm just I would overthink everything and she'd be like, What's the problem? Like, and I'd be like, Thank God for her Pisces moon, because other than that, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:You have a Pisces moon.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god, you're stop. Okay, no, okay. And my mom is Aries rising to top it off. Oh my gosh. So that the like, of course, I mean, how do how to make a cancer feel at home? Just talk about her mom. Um, so silly, but so cliche, not a lot.
SPEAKER_03:She's come up two times in this entire. I love it. I love it so Cancerian.
SPEAKER_00:So cancerize up so basic. But yeah, like that's huge for me is is knowing that like it's okay to not be in the right HUD space. Like, I it takes, you know, I have a process because I I just absorb like I absorb too much, I feel too much. And I don't like to say it as a dark thing because I'm I'm happy to be that way, but it's hard. Um, I would I grew up undiagnosed ADD and like I got good grades, but yeah, it was hard. I mean, yeah how they are now, you know?
SPEAKER_04:Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. This is just such a pleasure. Thank you so much for chatting with us. We have learned so much and it's been so much fun.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Oh my gosh. I had to come back. This was so listen, I will be here forever with you guys. Look at this. Oh, I just need this. Yeah, look at this. Yeah, right. I that's just I'm never get out of here. No, I could talk to you guys forever. Are you kidding me? I would love to continue talking whenever you guys want. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Amazing, amazing. Well, thank you so much, and we'll talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you guys so much.
SPEAKER_03:Bye.
SPEAKER_00:Bye. Bye.
SPEAKER_05:I like to see you shining. Special kind of magic. Special kind of magic material world, come beat me in the immaterial world. As far as the galaxy cards, we're flying in the immaterial world. Immaterial world, come beat me in the immaterial world. Your mind, your body, and soul Delighted in the Immaterial World. The Immaterial World. The Immaterial World.
SPEAKER_03:Immaterial World is hosted by Jessica Richards and Jasmina Bongiola. Music by Dia Luna. Artwork by Lane Friend. Follow us at Immaterial World Pod on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Visit our website at www.immaterial dashworld.com. Or send us an email at Immaterial World Pod at gmail.com.