Immaterial World
A dedicated and transparent space to re-center how we explore glamour, fashion, magic, wellness, culture, and everything else we love, together.
hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele
Immaterial World
TAROT FOR THE WILD SOUL with Lindsay Mack
Lindsay Mack (they/them) is an intuitive Tarot teacher, writer, and founder of Tarot for the Wild Soul, as well as the host of the popular podcast of the same name, which has been downloaded over ten million times. Through their beloved workshops, retreats, and online Tarot courses, Lindsay has had the profound honor of teaching Soul Tarot to many tens of thousands of students from all around the world.
As a queer, neurodivergent, and (now) joyful survivor of childhood abuse living with complex PTSD, and chronic pain, Lindsay is passionately dedicated to honoring and helping to bring space, light, and healing to those who are experiencing mental, emotional, or physical suffering.
In this episode, Lindsay discusses the process of tarot “anchoring” in self-exploration, giving yourself radical permission to play, working with the assumption of positive intentions, and more.
For more about Lindsay visit:
Instagram: @wildsoulhealing
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Hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele
For bookings and for more about Jessica visit: www.the12th.house and Instagram: @jessicaxrich
For bookings and for more about Jezmina visit: www.jezminavonthiele.com and Instagram: @jezmina.vonthiele
Music and editing by DIA LUNA
Instagram: @dialunamusic
Artwork by Lane Friend
Instagram: @friendlane
Welcome to Material World, a dedicated and transparent space to recenter how we explore glamour, magic, culture, and everything else we love together. Lindsay Meck is an intuitive tarot reader, author, podcast host, death doula, and the founder of Tarot for the Wild Soul. Through their beloved workshops, retreats, and online tarot courses, Lindsay has had the profound honor of teaching Soul Tarot to many tens of thousands of students from around the world. Their first book, Tarot for the Wild Soul, and Tarot Deck, The Soul Tarot Deck, will be released on May 19th, 2026 by Running Press.
SPEAKER_02:We are so pleased to be here today with Lindsay Mack. Thank you so much for joining us. This is such a pleasure.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for asking me.
SPEAKER_01:Oh gosh. Yeah, we're psyched to have you here.
unknown:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And we're really excited too because we're getting to interview you in your time leading up to a huge launch of your new book, Tarot for the Wild Soul. So tell us what led us to where you are today. So not just with the book or Tarot for the Wild Soul podcast, but also your relationship with Tarot in general as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I'll I'll keep it somewhat brief, but I uh came upon a tarot deck for the first time in a used bookstore in New Jersey when I was 12 years old. And yeah. And I was like, you know, just not to get serious too quickly, I'll keep it on the lighter side, but in a really abusive situation at home and was just struggling profoundly, mental health and trauma. And I'd never known anybody who worked with the tarot. There are a lot of strong intuitives in my family, but I think some of them didn't know and were utilizing their gifts in different ways. But I had honestly, I don't really have a memory of even, I guess in movies, but that said, I saw this deck, I didn't really know what it was, and I thought in my 12-year-old head, because that was like a zillion years ago, oh my God, this could maybe like tell me what's gonna happen to me, and I can like get some foresight on this bullshit, and I can like figure this out. And um, so I bought the deck and like all the books I could with my like pocket money, and being the Audi HDer that I am, took it extremely seriously. And while I was reading these books, and again, from the perspective of a queer 12-year-old kid teaching myself with no lineage to draw from, of course, which is very, very different from a lot of practitioners. There's I mean, there it was very difficult because I was kind of like none of this applies to me, and it's all quite frightening and like fatalistic. And there are frightening and fatalistic things that happen in life, but they weren't in any way, there was no space for my experience. So I don't know, even from that age, I don't I don't have this confidence in other areas of my life. So I don't know what inspired it, but I was like, you know, I wonder what would happen if, like, yes, I keep my eyes open to the books and to the lineage, but like kind of just noticed what happened if I approached this in a critically thoughtful way. Like, do I really think something disastrous is going to happen? Probably, probably not. I loved tarot and read for people all throughout middle school and high school and college, um, and really enjoyed it and did it quite casually, but it still felt like a very sacred practice to me. Um, and never even once thought about doing it like professionally. Um, and then I really truly mean this. I do think it was a little bit of a faded thing or a divine thing or something. Um, I had gone through a very difficult time at age 30, uh, and I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I was like, thought I'd wanted to be an actor, and then I was like, I absolutely do not want to do that. I had trained to be a coach and I enjoyed it, but at that time, one really big piece that was missing was just um, I was so far away from my spiritual practice at the time. And I said yes to reading tarot at like a gig in Brooklyn, New York, and I remembered thinking, like, I've got to take this shit like really fucking seriously because I'm I'm reading from like just what I remember and flowing, whatever. And I was like, okay, I've got to like know, I've got to like showed up like nervous, but also somewhat prepared. And there was something that happened in that moment where I was reading for these people, and I think it felt like reaching for something very familiar and also something that I was connecting to in a different way for the very first time, so goddamn long. But all to wrap it up in that moment, I was like, not only do I want to do this, I think this is a calling. And I was the last to even imag, like I never could have imagined that. And within a year, I was able to quit my job. And I've been doing this ever since, which is just an insane stroke of luck. I didn't really have any money. It was just um I quit my job and things blew up at the same time, and I haven't had to get another job since. But having a job is also perfectly fine, you know. But um it's sort of like as soon as I said yes to it, things flowed. Not completely perfectly, but I'm here. So that's how it started.
SPEAKER_02:I I love this, and also I don't know how into astrology you are, but the age age 12 comes up a lot when people are telling stories, and I always come back to yeah, so it's a first house prof perfection year. So it's like really about identity, and a lot of things, a lot of fated events happen to people at age 12. So I'm I always find that really fascinating, even though we're so young, it's like these things do get introduced around that age. So they do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, powerful.
SPEAKER_01:Love it. Yeah, I love how tarot was just there for you in such a supportive way and different ways throughout your life. And it seems like there's been a kind of unfolding of your um understanding of your relationship to it. And it's making me think of this evocative phrase you use, the spiral, the spiralic journey, spiralic time in your podcast, in your book, Tarot for the Wild Soul. And so I would love for you to tell us more about what do you mean by a spiral journey?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I, you know, there are like I just want to give credit, not in any way um like endorsing these people, but uh Starhawk, Susan Weed, um my gosh, there's another person, Sark, all um baseline examples among many other people who kind of introduced me outside of just learning about Pictish standing stones and the spiral being a very ancient symbol in many cultures. Um this understanding of spiral came to me uh in a lot of literature that I was reading around that event that happened when I was 30 that sort of rebirthed me onto this path. And it was very important for me as somebody working through PTSD, working with OCD, working with like a lot of like, is it always felt like I was being hurtled backward? And that was the first moment where I was like, it's it, even though it feels that way, you're still you can't not spiral forward, right? Even if you seem, even if it seems like you're going backward. And I I think that has only deepened in my understanding of somebody living with dynamic disabilities, chronic pain, chronic illness, like this idea that nothing, even though the over culture, as Dr. Estees would say, uh has us believing that nothing is linear, you know, nothing is a straight line, everything is a spiral. We heal in a spiral, we birth in a spiral. Um so when I speak about living spiralically, approaching tarot spiralically, I think that's always how it's really made sense to me. And I I think uh de-emphasizing the ultimate answer, the need to know, and just being along for the journey, coming home to the present is in like ABC terminology, I think what it means to me. Um very helpful because I still have a brain that's like, you're fucked, things are on fire, and I'm like, yeah, you know, it feels that way, but also like we are still moving forward, we are still spiraling forward, and so it's not gonna end, you know, despite how it feels. So yeah, does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, I mean, we still have to have a human experience, even being intuitive and very tapped in. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And us doing that helps us, you know, help others through it too. 100%. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I I think this is so important what you're talking about. And and we really speak about using divination as a tool for therapy and for healing. And a lot of people that are getting into tarot for the first time, even as what you were just saying, it's normally coming from a place where they're in a state of self-discovery or they're curious about themselves. How if someone's approaching tarot in that way or they're using divination in their own therapy work, what are some helpful thoughts that you have for them in their practice or in their self-education?
SPEAKER_00:I think radical permission to play. Radical permission to ask, like uh this is gonna sound like to quote silly questions, superfluous questions, to ask questions that you're like, ooh, like to play. I think that's very important and to really de-center. I just wrote about this on my substack, the idea of like perfect intuition is it really just I think this idea is informed of a white supremacist capitalist mindset, this idea like you're always gonna know, you're always gonna know in the same way. I think there are people who do have that gift and God bless. But I think to believe that your intuition has to look a particular way is um, I have so much compassion, so much sympathy for it. And I just really want to name that intuition really is like a vulva. They all look really different and they all present really differently, and they all like it's like anything, like a fingerprint. Like it's celebrate how yours flows through you, right? Um, my intuition, I would say, is like quite practical. It's very practical. There's very little like uh embellishment around my intuition. I really appreciate that. And I I'm okay. Like there are some gifts like I don't have, they're not my gifts necessarily, or not yet. And that's okay. And so I would say um to really get curious about uh is there something that exists in you already that is a tremendous gift that maybe you're not giving credit for because to you it's so obvious, you know, or such a given. Um, but I think play really decenter the need to know, know that I I believe, at least for me, intuition is very, very much a spiral thing. I ask a question, I don't get an answer immediately. I go bowling and I'm like, oh my god, there it is, you know, or you know, like sometimes that that's the way of it. Yeah. How what would you two say? What would I'm so curious to hear your words of wisdom on this question, too.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I love the idea of getting comfortable with not knowing in general. I think this has been coming up for me a lot with clients and uh with one issue with myself lately, too, where there's um I keep getting cards that suggest it's like you're really not supposed to know exactly how this is gonna play out. Totally. And we've all had those, we've all had those experiences before too, where it's like, oh, well, if you told me five years ago I'd be doing this, I'd say no way. And so I like to embrace that there's um a way that we can use tool uh tarot as a tool for understanding ourselves, for navigating what comes ahead, but also just with making peace with that things sometimes need to be mysterious and they need to unfold in the way that they need to. And it might be more about reminding you to trust yourself or focus on how you actually feel in response to a situation, honoring your choice and how choice is sacred. And so I think there's a nice interplay with a fate and the free will.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and beautiful. I'll say that I only started reading tarot, you know, when I started exploring in 2019, I kept pulling the tower from myself. And it when I tell the story now, I can make it a funny story because clearly the guides that had been waiting for me to tap in for a while and they were like, okay, it's gonna get really bad for you for a second, you know. I was like about to go through a divorce, about to go through unemployment, about to go through a global pandemic. And so for me, where I'm at now in reading, my feeling is I need to be prepared for the good as much as the bad, where I can see things getting better. And I go into that default of like, okay, when is the floor about to fall out? But I almost feel like the exploration I'm in now is like, okay, things are gonna get good, but it's okay. And like, what how does that make you feel to know that things will get better? And that's an exploration in its own, I think, too, is you have to explore like why is it so strange for me to be navigating how things could improve or that I could have bliss or happiness or like live in true authenticity. So that has raised probably more questions in me than going through the tougher times, which is fascinating to me.
SPEAKER_00:That both of both of those offerings are just so rich. And and Jessica, that's incredible. Like to think about, like, I think there's a term for that, like not quite literally, but the term that's coming up for me is like post-traumatic growth syndrome. Oh, they've done they've there's a book about that called Anti-Fragile that was very interesting to read. It's like study of different cultures who have evolved and have grown and have um through tragedy, through disaster, through uh ecological circumstances, and who have like um refined their values, gotten closer to what matters to them, have actually been able to grow stronger through what they've experienced rather than shrink and become wow. Yeah. So um it's powerful, very powerful.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of like you see the Ten of Cups and you're like, like as an outcome. Yeah, I know, I know.
SPEAKER_00:Like, okay, yeah, cool. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I'm tea I'm teaching a class about this later today about like how to like work with the quote, like positive, because people are it's very activating, super activating, super activating. Because either you're like, oh my god, what is that gonna be? Or you're like, I feel like shit, how dare you come forward in this moment, you know, or yeah. So yeah. It's too real.
SPEAKER_01:Which really is a lovely segue into what does it mean for you to read with integrity, whether that's for yourself or for other people, because we're holding our own or others', you know, fragile hearts in our hands when we're doing this work sometimes. That's for sure.
SPEAKER_00:I think that one way I would say I'll start with the micro and then expand out to one macro that I think has been really important. Um, some bits of micro is um without being too perfectionistic about it, I really do try to take care of myself, not in a way that is so global that I have to be feeling a particular way, but I actually have built in time in just the drop-in process in my reading to kind of silently acknowledge, like, I'm really tired today. Like, please hold me in this tiredness so I can show up a hundred percent for this person, or I've got a bit of a headache today. Like, I'm naming that now so it doesn't get in the way, basically. And um I also think that I I'm really straight up up front. Like, I I am not a future teller, my readings are largely non-predictive, uh, and I feel very solid in that. It's just not a practice that is mine, that I've inherited from anybody. That's the way it flows from my own work. So I think like it's hard when folks want you to give that to them. And I I just won't. You know, I'd rather give a refund than do that. So um I also really believe that the client already knows what's happening, and usually the brain or the fear is so loud that I feel like my job with humility is to maybe give voice to the depth underneath, which I think is a really nice thing that tarot can do. Um, and the other thing, uh, last but not least, I suppose, is I I really do, I don't always succeed, but I really do take care to try to never invite anybody into fear. Like I really do. It's not like a Pollyanna type thing, but I think um I feel a responsibility to ensure that the way I'm communicating a card or something about it, in a way that a client's nervous system can actually take in and feel empowered by rather than frozen by. Um, and macrocosmically, yes, you're a huge part of that. I think in order to read tarot ethically and with any sense of backbone, we have to have an understanding of the history of cartomancy and the unbelievably crucial legacy of Roma and Romani tarot readers inside of that, and to be aware of the of the boundaries of our own practices and and to utilize this tool in a way that feels as respectful as possible in a macro lens. It's only made me dive into my own gifts more. So no one, no one loses from that, you know. So yeah. And I wanna I wanna thank you because again, you are a huge part of um helping me to understand and see that.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much. That's so beautiful. I get so excited when um people are excited to learn more about the history and cultural influence of tarot, and they don't see it as like a threat to their own practice. And it's just like, oh, this is like more for me to understand and get excited. And that's that's how I feel when I um yeah, when I when I discovered your work when I, oh man, I think I was listening to your podcast when I was living in New York and I was like, this is so different from how I learned, and I freaking love it.
SPEAKER_00:Really into it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. Thank you. Lindsay, one thing that I love that you have on your website is the anchor card quiz, which I've taken before, and it came to me blessed. It came to me at a time where I was, you know, sort of moving from one period to the transition from one period into another where maybe things were starting to get happier and putting happier in air quotes. And the the response that I got was the Queen of Wands, which has it, it was my summer. Like I was her this summer. Literally everywhere I showed up, there were sunflowers growing. I was feeling like really my power, I was like moving with action. How can people best work with anchor cards? How can they find the card that they should be aligning with? What's a good archetype for them to explore? And also, do you have an anchor card that you're working with right now?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I do. So anchor cards and the process of tarot anchoring is something that I'm sure other folks are doing this in their own way. I'm certain I'm not the one who invented this, but uh my process and practice is specific because it was born out of a personal experience. So many years ago, I was going through something that I could not read tarot for. Every pull was an activation. It was, I was too in the experience. I it had always been a refuge, it had always been such a help to me. But I was like waiting for something. It was very high intensity, and I could not receive the moon reversed or wheel of fortune like one more time. I was like, yeah, I know what I'm in. I can I can't, I have to know how to be with it. And it was really um a bummer because again, I had always gone to my tarot deck for that kind of um like witness and that help. Um, and so tarot anchoring just simply developed as a way for me to empower myself and potentially for other people to feel empowered if they are particularly distressed or particularly activated, and the idea of going to their decks feels really difficult and activating and not helpful. Or if they just keep getting the same card and they're like, I know I'm in this. What do I do? Tarot anchoring, um, you there are sort of two branches of it. One of them is that you can go to your deck and say, Okay, I understand what I'm in. What do I actually need? What would be of benefit right now? You pull a card and then that's it. You work with that card and you might pull cards to be branches of that. So, like if I pull Queen of Wands for that, I might say, What is the best way for me to connect to Queen of Wands today actionably? Um, is there a message from that deep inner part of myself or from this archetype to me where we're not we're working within that framework? And then the other branch of it is that we just choose what we need. We just choose what we need. So that helps some people. For some people, it's not for them. Um an anchor card is whatever you want it to be, though. I think like that term anchor card is how, like, I'm talking about it within the context of my own practice, but Lord knows, like tarot being an anchor doesn't belong to me, right? So, like that idea of the card that either is showing up again and again for you or one time that is so impactful, and you just it's there's that sense, like right, Jessica, for you, you could have taken that quiz and been like, well, that doesn't really apply, but it was really powerful for you, right? So that's an example of like the anchor insisting upon itself, at least in my experience. And then the other way we can do it is indeed being like, I am really going through something and I kind of don't want to go to my deck. I don't feel like I can go to my deck. I I I just need the star. I just I need the world, I need the magician, I need them by my side to be with me. And we can call upon the essence and the spirit of that and really just say, like, for me, because I get more into the nitty-gritty, this is my Virgo rising. I I like to say, like, in those moments, like I'm going through a moment like that right now where I am completely in a moon season. And I hate it, but that's fine. So, what I what I will do is like I pull out the moon because I can acknowledge like I'm in this. And what I really need right now is the star personally. So I also pull that out. And then I like to also pull a third card that's like, what's gonna help me bridge between the two? Like acknowledge that I'm in this, but also that I'd like to be, I'd like to live here. Like if I there's a storm outside, what kind of apartment would I like to would I like to be in while that's going on? Um, it's not denying reality and it's not like superimposing yourself. I think it's like a nice usually turns out to be a nice mixture of like um you know, surrender and agency. Um but yeah, I want to, I'm aiming for the star, but I do feel like I'm just in a bunch of sevens right now. I'm just like in the moon, like just you know, in a in a big bridge time. It's exciting and also like I don't know. It's a weird time for me, but that's okay. That's all right.
SPEAKER_02:I totally feel that. Like what the Queen of Wands for me was coming up at a time that was like, yep, you're intuitive. No one is questioning that, but what are you gonna do about it? Like, yeah, time for some action, mama. Like something about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love the way you speak of using cards almost um medicinally or um in a kind of alleviating way. And the temptation is so strong to panic and get freaked out when traditionally spiky cards come up, like the Nine of Swords, um, and which is a totally reasonable and fine response, but also you don't have to panic. Can you tell us more about why you say there are no bad cards?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So I love that you asked me this question because I do think it is an important thing to acknowledge that there are, of course, horrible things that happen. There are horrible, horrifying things in life that are undeserved and sometimes that we never really have an understanding about as to the why of it. And I have found it useful to assume that every card, even if it is traditionally spiky, without uh diminishing the intensity that a card like that can bring, I have found it to be very powerful to assume that every card is here for me, okay to help me, to assist me. So yeah, for real. Like nine of swords often does show up when me or somebody else is moving through a really difficult time. Anxiety, what ifs, worries. And if the tarot is reporting, that can be enough. And we can become skilled in speaking about that. But what what I found really works for me is um maybe this is taking this from a framework of somebody who has OCD, where I'm often like kind of before I even knew what parts work was, I'm often calling on the kind of wise knower within me to talk to the OCD who is freaking out and panicking. So there's often this sense of like, can I root into what's true? Can I root into all of the protection around me? Can I hold a space that right now this is uncomfortable? And also I can be with this. And if I can't be with it, I can call upon someone else to be in it with me. So that might be a reflection on my own attempts to see life. Of course, it probably is. Um, I don't believe that there are any inherently bad cards. I think that all the cards show up within. I mean, I it's hard. I mean, I do know and certainly have a sense that like the tower can come up for someone and it's gonna be a hard ride. I've had that with myself where I've been like, okay, you know, and I've also had it come up and be spectacular and important and like beautiful and like a total reversal of the shitty thoughts that I was having and it blowing my world up and being like, you're actually Brad, and like there's just enough of this bullshit. So I like and I have found it useful for my practice to come at it with total beginner's mind, total beginner's mind. Like I know what these cards mean, I know what they can be. I've often found like it's gonna sound a little bit more esoteric than it actually is in practice. Tarot readings really show up like songs to me, and I feel like my job. Is to assume that the song in front of me makes sense and there's something to it, even if it's wildly dissonant. There are a lot of beautiful music that's really dissonant, right? Um no bad cards, really bad things in life, but not as a rule and not as a place to start. I think that's a very powerful thing to consider for our practice. We don't have to do it, but I think it it can be really powerful. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you for sharing that. And I also wanted to say, as someone who also experiences obsessive compulsive disorder, I have had a lot of unlocks through tarot. Um, one thing that Jez and I have talked about before, I would get the Seven of Cups a lot. And then I came to understand that that was usually in a time where I had to examine like what was a real thought and what was something that was happening that was outside of reality that was sort of like escaping me, or you know, there was a lot of fantasy happening in my head that I didn't have to entertain. So yeah, that's probably a more challenging card too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, totally. I experience a card brings up a lot for me too, because of that shared framework. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it fascinates me how often I will read for clients going through a really difficult time. And the card that represents them in the reading is like the three of swords. And it's just like, oh yeah, honey, we know you're here. And so, you know, the threes are all about community. This is not a time to go through it alone. You know, it always feels like such good advice whenever those difficult cards come up, or it's just like, yeah, so so we're here. Yeah. Let's see what you need. So I just I love that about how you teach. It just it's it's totally okay and reasonable to be uh upset about the hard things going on around you, but uh the I don't believe that the cards are antagonistic or like trying to make you feel worse. I think they're trying to help you through it.
SPEAKER_00:I think so too. Assuming positive intent, I think is the is the essence of no bad cards. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That's so beautiful. You know, you've been a supportive, influential voice for many tarot practitioners to learn from for years through your podcast, your online learning platform, and now your book. How has your work as a teacher shifted and changed over the years?
SPEAKER_00:Oh my God. I mean, it's a lot, a lot and also not, you know. I feel like I've been doing this work now professionally for 10 years. Um I think I just I know so much more now. Like I'm more I'm more knowledgeable. I've studied more because I keep studying, you know, and learning myself. Um and I learn a lot through reading, you know. So that is um I feel like I've become far more seasoned. Um and I think that um I've matured. Like there, there's like I was, I feel like when I first started, there was I was just insecure in certain ways and like worried in certain ways than I'm not right now. And um I think that my practice has become way more um more outspoken in terms of the inherent ableism in spirituality. I think like as I've deepened into like my own disability, I think it's just been like I'm not gonna like be shy about this shit for anybody. Like, this is who often who I serve and who I teach is like folks moving through challenges, folks trying to find their way. Um, and I don't know, I feel like it took some time to figure out like where I belonged in that. I don't know, just doing it in my 30s, you know, part of learning that. Um I think that my relationship to spirituality has changed in ways that I'm honestly in the middle of unpacking. I think like over the last couple of years, some magical thinking has left me. I'm a little bit more cynical than I used to be. I know that's probably not a great answer to this, but I think it's just I've seen and experienced more horrors, you know. So I'm just not cynical, but like a little bit more realistic, perhaps, I think, than I used to be. Um I think that the change, there have been certainly certain cards that over the years have been like, oh wow, never could have thought that that would have shown up that way. What I have to say about this is different. I think I'm embodying, like I always knew I wanted to teach, but I think I am embodying the heart of a teacher a lot more now. I think if that makes sense. Like um I'd rather not be in the front of things. I'd rather be serving people and teaching people. And it's nice to be at the front if it can help, but um maybe a little bit more private. Um yeah, it's it's it's hard to language, even though I've said a lot. It's been a big change, I think. Um yeah. Um I don't know, does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01:It does, yeah, it absolutely does. And it I just realized too, I would love to hear you share with our listeners um what your book is about because I feel like your book really encapsulates so much about what you've learned about sitting with tarot and teaching tarot and serving clients. And we haven't asked you that yet.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So my book is called Like All Things That I Do, Tarot for the Wild Soul. And it is um the backbone in the essence of it is essentially what role does the tarot play ultimately in a world that is full of challenges, full of horrors, up frankly, as it's always been, but in a in a very concentrated and visible way now, um, in a world where we're watching climate degradation happen in real time, like what what role does this ultimately serve? And I don't necessarily think I'm the end-all be-all to that question, but um the invitation is we don't, at least for me, because I don't read right in in um a way that is all that predictive. Um, how do we allow the cards to be a homecoming? And how can we allow them to be present with us without necessarily having them tell us what's going to happen? How can we let that incentivize us to show up much more presently and actively to a world that really needs our attention in it? And we need our own attention. So um the cards are sort of explored. It's not so out of order, but I think it's out of order enough that we tried to make it clear to people, but um it's explored like rather than just sort of these are the majors, which is completely valid, by the way, and very important. I probably will lose some people that I've chosen to do with my book, but that's okay. Um, so like for example, one of the chapters is called When You're in Hell, Tarot Cards for Impossible Times. And in that chapter, we explore the journey from the tower to the star to the moon to the sun, and also look at an accompanying chunk of minors and court cards. Um, so the whole essence and thrust of the book is like, you know, there's no way to ever say when a particular card might be useful or not. There's a zillion ways to approach a card, but um, it is meant to be a lived and mapped out um framework to use the tarot in this really heart-led present moment, non-predictive for the most part, um, trauma-informed manner for whatever season life might be showing up for us or or might be bringing us. So yeah. And there's like more structural stuff, like what are the majors, what are the court cards, etc., and um how to use the deck in the way that I do. Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for sharing that. I so so enjoyed getting a chance to read it a little early and I highly recommend people check this beautiful offering out.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. It really meant a lot to me. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:And there's a deck that you've designed that also goes with the the book. Is there anything that we should look forward to with this deck that feels different than typical imagery or anything that we might know about, Tarot?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I think if you if if somebody is familiar and or if they appreciate the way I teach, the deck is just a visual compendium of everything that I speak about. So um it was illustrated by Chelsea Granger, who also did the artwork for the Dirt Gems Oracle deck that I can't recommend more highly. It just that deck hits. I mean, it is no joke, it's incredible. Um, Chelsea's also done a myriad of other projects that people have more than likely seen. Um, but Chelsea is an old chum of mine, and I really wanted her to do it. And she said yes, we had such a great experience. And essentially the the process was like, I told her exactly what to do, and she did it, which was lovely. Um, but yeah, it's beautiful. There are no people on the deck. Um, it's just animals, imagery, nature imagery, and like alchemical imagery. So, like a floating compass, you know, that kind of thing. Um and all really beautiful, very evocative. And I think we struck a really nice visual balance between ideally helping you to get a sense of like what the I've heard, I've only released one card so far, and I've heard from a shocking amount of people, like I never really got this card until I saw this image, which is what I was going for. Like, if it folks have felt a little confused, a little bit like there's it's it's a nice way in, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's so cool. What a wonderful uh piece of feedback to get.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. Incredible. Yes. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Um, what kind of tools and divination do you tend to use for yourself? Do you feel that tarot is your main outlet, or do you have other things that you delve into for your own uh self-care and discovery?
SPEAKER_00:So I think that, ooh, this is gonna really be a very boring answer. So I over the last few years, it's really been like what's within 30 feet of me, basically. So um, like the buckeyes outside that are falling right now, the rose hips that are forming um the stones that are around the rivers that I might be near, those are the things that are in my hand on my altar that I'm working with kind of seasonally. Um and I do feel like honestly, since having a baby three and a half years ago, my altar practice has just it's essentially been abandoned. I probably shouldn't say that out loud, but I want to normalize it because it does happen. I still feel very connected, but I'm in a season of my life where I know like I must return to some kind of study practice. Um, but candlework as often as possible. I really I am a witch who loves to pray. I am not religious in nature, but I love to pray to whomever it might concern, whomever has my best interest at heart. Um and yeah, going to the water, communing, walking through the woods, communing, um, feeling like I have a relationship with the land that like we're renting our home on. Um, I don't do all that much ritual work these days. Um, I want that to change, but it's become much more about like what is in arm's reach. Um I I even I miss the tarot too. Like I wish I did a little bit more work with the tarot. Um these days, I go to it, I work with it, but I I miss when it used to be a little bit more regular in my life. Um and yeah, I would say like the the having alone time is honestly so rare for me that any moment within that space that I can take to work with whatever is showing up, you know, is very helpful. But and there's not anything wrong with this at all. I think it's incredible. I definitely used to be a person who was like, I have to have like the right incense and I have to have this particular tool and this particular herb, and that has all left me, all left me. It's just really like, what is outside and what can I dry inside that grows next to my home that I can burn if I want to burn something? Um yeah, not the sexiest answer, but that that is what is showing up right now for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I just feel like that cut that approach to magic or it's just like, well, what's around me is such a practical traditional approach too. That was very much how I was raised. Is that so? Yeah, it's just sort of like, I mean, who has the money or time? Like, if you do with what you have around you, you don't know what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely what I was taught. Yeah, I I really feel that. I'm like, I think the more that I've learned, uh, because I I'm in no way, I don't teach it. I don't like I'm such a baby, humble beginner at this, but like working with different people who actually share a blood lineage, I'm you know, descendant of colonizers living in America. I'm not a Scottish person, but I do have Scottish, Irish, Italian blood. And so since uh trying to connect more with those indigenous folk practices, it's totally dropped to the bottom out of all of what you were talking about. It's just literally what is in my I got a lemon, great, I can work with that. You know what I mean? And it's it's it's really beautiful, you know, very beautiful. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I love that. It's like real vibes, you know, just like whatever you're feeling and working forward with that. Yeah. So authentic. Yeah. Well, thank you for spending some of your limited alone time with us today. God, it was an honor. How can people best support your work or work with you in the future?
SPEAKER_00:They can go to tarothewildsoul.com. Currently, like there's nothing there basically because everything is getting redone um this year. Um, but I do have a membership that is getting completely rejghed right now and will be like a lot more robust and a lot better. I think um it's good now, but it'll be better um in 2026. Um, I usually have courses, I'll have new ones in 2026 as well. But all of that they can find at tarothewildsoul.com. I'm on Substack as Snowback Cards, I'm on Instagram as Wild Soul Healing, and I have a podcast called Terror for the Wild Soul, and they can find out anything about what I might be doing, including pre-ordering the book and all that there.
SPEAKER_01:Wonderful. Thank you so much for being with us today. It was so cool to be able to sit down and talk to you about your work. And I hope everyone goes and checks out your book and your deck. And yeah, we're just grateful for your presence. Oh my god, thank you so much for having me. It was a joy.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Immaterial world is listed by Jessica Richards and Jess Lina on Dylan. Music by DL. Artwork by Lane Fred. Follow us at Immaterial World Pod on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Visit our website at www.immaterial-world dot com. Or send us an email at Immaterial World Pod at gmail.com. Thank you for being part of our immaterial world. Welcome to the immaterial world.