Immaterial World
A dedicated and transparent space to re-center how we explore glamour, fashion, magic, wellness, culture, and everything else we love, together.
hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele
Immaterial World
HOLDING SAFE SPACE with Juanita Viera
Juanita Viera, LCAT is a native New Yorker with elders from Puerto Rico. She identifies as a “Nuyorican” and has been surrounded by music and arts from an early age.
With a degree in psychology and studio art, as well as a Master’s in Creative Arts Therapies, Juanita curates collaborative community therapeutic art programming in addition to her own practice offering art therapy for healing trauma and creativity development services for collective wellbeing.
In this episode, Juanita shares how she creates safe and transformative spaces for clients through her bespoke ketamine-assisted psychotherapy experiences, integrating art and music for holistic healing and breakthrough personal discovery.
Listeners can apply to the New Year KAP Group Retreat with an offer of $100 off when mentioning code IMMATERIAL. Website in show notes.
For more about Juanita visit:
www.integrationartstherapy.com
Instagram: @art.of.integration
To apply for New Year KAP Group Retreat, visit:
www.integrationartstherapy.com/art-therapy-group
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Hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele
For bookings and for more about Jessica visit: www.the12th.house and Instagram: @jessicaxrich
For bookings and for more about Jezmina visit: www.jezminavonthiele.com and Instagram: @jezmina.vonthiele
Music and editing by DIA LUNA
Instagram: @dialunamusic
Artwork by Lane Friend
Instagram: @friendlane
Welcome to Immaterial World, a dedicated and transparent space to recenter how we explore glamour, magic, culture, and everything else we love together.
SPEAKER_01:How are you? So happy to be here. I am so excited about this episode. I know that I say that at the beginning of every episode, but especially this one. And I think anyone listening will hear that we are the number one fans of our guest that we have on today. The sweetest guest of all, Juanita Vieira. And she's going to get into her story and her path, but as her bestie, I'm going to let you drop her bio here for our listeners.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, just for good measure. Juanita Vieira, L C A T is a native New Yorker with elders from Puerto Rico. She identifies as a New Yorkan and has been surrounded by music and arts from an early age. With a degree in psychology and studio art, as well as a master's in creative arts therapies, Juanita curates collaborative community therapeutic art programming in addition to her own practice offering art therapy for healing trauma and creativity development services for collective well-being.
SPEAKER_01:And for our listeners, Juanita has shared a special offer. So if what you hear in this episode speaks to you and you're in the New York area, then I strongly advocate that you check out the website link in our show notes for more information on her upcoming New Year CAP group retreat. And you will receive an offer of$100 off when you mention the code in material. And I love that for you. Podcasts are great, right? You can do them in secret, you can listen to them privately, and you can take notes and have questions, but especially with the topic that we're going to discuss today. This is a modality that people outside of the seeker might have a lot of opinions about. And Juanita does get into that in the episode. But I really hope that this inspires from listening to this episode that people are inspired to think about their own healing and if this modality makes sense for them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and as we talk about uh some of our own experiences in the intro and as we get into um what ketamine therapy is used for, we do talk very generally about um trauma and mental health. If that feels heavy for you, you might either want to skip this episode for another day or maybe just have a friend or a therapist or someone to check in with. Um and yeah, just take good care of yourself. But otherwise, we're not gonna get any into any specific details. We're gonna stay broad.
SPEAKER_01:Beautiful. Jasmina, my friend, can I ask you why you decided to explore ketamine therapy?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, as I mentioned in the episode, I have a uh complex PTSD diagnosis. And I was doing really powerful, helpful work in therapy. And with a great talk therapist, I was working with an organization called Safe Horizon. So if you're in the New York area and you have experienced domestic violence or other types of abuse or um sexual assault, they're a really great organization. I had good um experiences working with them, and so I always like to share, you know, when I have a good experience with something that's especially particularly vital. Yeah. So I really enjoyed Safe Horizon. And I at the same time, I kind of felt like I reached a plateau with what I was able to do in terms of understanding and moving through my trauma. I felt like I really intellectually understood it so well. And I also felt like a lot of the things I was struggling with, especially um really heavy dissociation, um, I just couldn't really implement my tools when I was struggling the most. And then I had a difficult experience. You know, the pandemic hit. I got extremely sick. Um, I thought I was gonna die. It was like very intense. And then I had um continuing long haul COVID where I was very, very limited. I was bedridden for a few months, and then my mobility is limited, it still is limited. And my mom died. And so there was just a lot of heaviness, and that all was happening at the same time. And I remember at that time Juanita, who is like my best date, was training, and she just got hired at this place called Field Trip, which is no longer in existence, but it was this really um kind of like bougie, cool like ketamine therapy organization or group. And um, it was bougie as hell, which I enjoyed about it. And um at the time I had like a little bit of savings, and I was just struggling so much with my mental health. And Juita was telling me because she had been studying ketamine therapy extensively, and she was telling me how exciting it was that she was learning more about it. She couldn't wait to start working at field trip and they were doing extra training with her, and she um, in order to start practicing, needed to um go through the experience of taking the ketamine um as medicine and um going through the therapy herself, basically. And I was like, I want to do that, like because she was telling me how about neuroplasticity and how it not only helped with trauma, but was also sometimes helping people with chronic pain or other types of anxiety disorders or all kinds of things. And she was talking about how it was like rewiring your brain, and I was like, that's what I need. I feel so stuck. Like, I just like there's like a some I kept saying I need something to crack me open and go into my brain.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so um, I've done an extensive amount of spiritual work and meditation, and I was not afraid of any kind of visioning or journeying, and I was just excited to see what it would be like to do that with um some sort of medical or chemical or you know medicine assistance. And we ended up being able to time it so that we both had our experiences as patients at the same time. Obviously, we weren't in the same session, but we even got to like decompress with our snacks and our coconut water afterwards together. It was extremely cute, and um, and Juanita brought a lot of like our art supplies and things like that. And so we were just like quietly, just silently um coloring next to each other. What do they call it? Um, parallel play. We're doing parallel play as we were recovering.
SPEAKER_01:I'm also obsessed because I imagine you both in this like very like bougie adult, like literal field trip, like just being like two sweet little like inner children, like coloring and having your coconut water together.
SPEAKER_02:Sweet, so cute, adorable, and it was such good timing because at it was a February um of 2021, and my auntie had who I was so close to who I absolutely adored, passed away um that week very unexpectedly. And so I was just like in the deep, deep throes of grief. And even though I was in this acute suffering, um, ketamine therapy really was incredibly helpful. And I did six sessions over a period of a few months, I think. And um I was able to stay with friends in New York because at the time I was living in New Hampshire. And um, I loved the debriefing uh that we did. I did a lot of um drawing and processing and sharing my visions, and I was able to talk about it um not just with the therapist Sarah, which I found incredibly helpful, but also my own therapist and then also, you know, my spiritual friends who had thoughts about the kinds of things I was experiencing. And it really helped me move through a very difficult time. It's hard to say how much it affected my mobility and things like that, because I was doing a lot of different things to try to like bring my body back. But um, I think it definitely helped in some way. I just don't exactly know how. And um, since then I will sometimes do a maintenance dose like once or twice a year, um, and usually in response to seasonal depression, because my brand of seasonal depression comes with a lot of CPTSD stuff on top of it. And now it's just something I do only if I need it. I don't even do it every year to just sort of make sure that I'm in that kind of neuroplastic, like it's okay, my trauma doesn't define me. You know, I'm fluid and flying through the universe kind of um headspace. And it it really has been um that missing component where it's like, I don't need to just talk about it. There's something that I need to rewire. And it was it really made me feel like I was doing that, in addition to the MDMA therapy that I did in the maps trial that I mentioned later, too.
SPEAKER_01:That's beautiful. And I love to hear that you're still using um cap as an ongoing modality, that this isn't like a one and done for you, that this is something that you what you know when it's appropriate for you to revisit that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, totally. I can feel it. And I've had years where it's like, oh, this year, I think there was a year that was particularly tough that I did like two maintenance doses, and then I went a year without it. And then like this year I've done one, and it was like it's just been very nice to be able to listen to my body. And there was one time when I did a maintenance dose when I wasn't sure if I needed it or not, and I didn't feel like the experience was as profound, which was really interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, yeah. And and I will say, like, as somebody on the other side of it, that makes a lot of sense. Like when you're ready for it, it's time for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. How did it go for you? What was your experience like?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, what a nice lead-in too, because I was going to say, and I do mention this in the episode, but I was introduced to Juanita through you um in 2024 at an intuition workshop. And in the episode, I say, you know, I I do find that when it's time for me to explore a new modality, it just sort of like appears in my life. And I had never thought about doing ketamine therapy. And I'm glad that it appeared when it did, because I think I had just a matter of days to consider whether or not I was going to do it. And if I had more time, then I probably would have overthought and not have done it. So it was perfect timing to contextualize. And I do mention this in the podcast, but if I'm going to work backwards, you know, as an adult, the defining moments that really sort of brought traumatic um response into my life, into my brain. Um, in 2013, I was assaulted in New York City. And it was something that happened very suddenly, as these things do. But the experience afterwards, there was a lot of touch points where I was heavily involved in like the um legal process afterwards. And I think that because of my nature, I tend to be someone who's like, oh, let me be a part of the solution, where I didn't really give myself any time to process the event itself. I sort of put that to the back burner and was worried about like how do we like put a bow on this and like wrap it up. And there was such a impact on my brain, I know now regarding physical uh safety and and my surroundings. And I think that that planted a seed. Um, the following year, someone in my family was hospitalized and they were in the hospital for months on end. And I would go to the hospital, you know, travel to Massachusetts from New York. I would spend half of the week in the ICU, half of the week at work. Um, when I was at work, I was always thinking about being in the other place, and vice versa. And in the time that they were in the hospital, you know, I I watched this person go into cardiac arrest. I saw some things in that experience multiple times over. And again, I I I think of this as an idea where I was so desensitized to what I was seeing because it was happening a lot. And you know, clearly that had a huge impact on my brain to see such extreme situations and then just get used to it almost, um, for lack of a better way of explaining it. And after that summer, I had a pretty um big work trip scheduled in the fall. And coming home from that trip, I I shut down. Like I was on my way home, and a few things, you know, my like my flight was delayed and this and that. And just I'll never forget that flight home because I that's when I knew that I had sort of um had a nervous breakdown for lack of a better term. I don't want to laugh, but it it was, I mean, it was pretty dire circumstances. Um, but you couldn't at the time I couldn't connect the dots between what was happening in the 3D in front of me and the extreme things that I had been carrying for a few years. Um, you know, some pretty heavy therapy sessions, a lot of talk therapy got me to a more comfortable place. Um, 2019, I was going through a separation. I was living alone after a while. 2020, I lost my my job. I had never been unemployed before. And then, of course, we went into the pandemic. Um, a lot of very, very like big traumas happening in very short bursts of time. And so, you know, all of these things sort of built up. And I think that when we listen to the the episode and Juanita talks about, you know, your your brain is wiring itself and it's like training itself in these patterns and these these thoughts um that become, you know, you're you're just wiring them and you're saying, like, the world is not safe. Like maybe I'm a bad person. Maybe I'm I'm like I you're you're convincing yourself of things that are not true for such a long period of time by holding all of these things in. Um, for levity, even though this is not really funny at all, you know, I was carrying all of these things. I would like revisit uh uh CBT and and go through stints where I would feel better. But then in 2024, at the beginning of the year, I started with a new therapist and I was like, you know what? What the hell? I'm gonna give this a whirl. I'm gonna talk about the fact that I've had a STEM since I was five years old and that I've been doing it in private, or that I've like, and I was like, what could it hurt that I've never mentioned this before? And the therapist was like sort of staring at me, like, you've never talked about this. I was like, oh, you know, uh, as a child, like I was doing this. And then when I became aware that it was like weird, I stopped doing it in front of other people. And when we started to put a lot of things together, um, it was really clear that I had obsessive compulsive disorder. And it was like what they would call like pure O, which means that your obsessions are also your compulsions. It doesn't really leave your brain. You're not really doing anything outwardly, like it's not like tapping or anything like that. But the loops in your brain are are really where that gets um a bit much. So last year was a huge year of healing for me. I tried a lot of different healing modalities, and like I said, they all really appeared at the right time. And when Ketamen came up, I was like, I think we're doing this. I think, I think I'm gonna give this a try. And it was it was a gift and like a relief. Um, I will say that the experience itself, uh like for you to have revisited it so many times, I'm only in a place a year later. I'm like, maybe I would think about when I might want to do it again. But the the mental lift that I had at the time, like, I was exhausted. I was really tired from doing it. And I felt like I couldn't even put sentences together for like a couple of weeks. That's, you know, I was a little bit challenged at work and like in social situations. But it it really gave me the levity to experience um my prayer for myself during that time was I don't want to live in extremes anymore. I I don't want to live in like extreme fear. I don't want to live in extreme pain or suffering, like that I'm not exposing or sharing with other people. I want to find a neutral place that I feel safe in. And even now I'm I'm feeling like I'm in a place that I've prayed for. I feel like being in balance, feeling safe, feeling like I can ask for help and not feeling the shame or the extremes that I had. And I know that that's directly a result of doing this therapy. And I'm so grateful. It truly was a gift that I was not expecting.
SPEAKER_02:Ah, that is so beautiful. I love how we have a little constellation around Juanita as well. And I think really yeah, it just so speaks to I don't, she just brings good energy to everything that she does. And like, and from her, you know, friend groups to her work. I just we like, I know you and I were just saying we're her fan club. Like, can't say enough good things about her. And I'm so glad that we both found our way to this modality. Like it it really, I feel the same way that it really profoundly helped me through um some just really gnarly trauma, you know, childhood into adulthood, all these different things. And it's not like it, you know, made it go away. It didn't put like a magic band-aid on it, but it did improve my ability to um experience a window of tolerance with emotions and actually start to process and move through things rather than just talk around them uh or about them without really experiencing any shift.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I think that, you know, especially for people that are experienced a lot of compounding uh traumatic experiences and they're kind of letting them stack up, right? And you might be doing, you know, I I know it's like, oh, we hate to laugh, but sometimes you have to laugh at these extremes.
SPEAKER_04:I always do.
SPEAKER_01:Me too. That's why we're friends. Yeah. Uh, you know, the CBT is sort of a band-aid, I do feel, when you have that kind of weight from these experiences. And the the one thing that I would offer to anyone that's thinking about this experience is that you it's so different than anything else. And you really are giving yourself the benefit of taking that weight away, but you also have to be ready on the other side not to be carrying that weight anymore and what that means to to commit to healing in such a profound way. So there's so much here. It's it's it's really phenomenal.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and it reminded me too, um, something that you just clicked in my brain is that the aftercare is really, really important. Like you were saying, it took you a little while to feel normal. I was already not functioning in society when I was doing these treatments. Um, and there wasn't much society to function in at the time. But um it was extremely helpful for me to dedicate the time in between sessions and after sessions really to just reinforcing the healing that I did. I was really careful about the media I consumed. I wasn't drinking at all. Not that I'm a big drinker anyway, but like not a drop. And it was just all the things I was doing were just so centered on my health and well-being. Because while it does, I feel like give some people, you know, a big boost into their healing, like everything, it's what you do to follow through and take action that really matters.
SPEAKER_01:I'm just gonna drop this little factoid here since it didn't get brought up in the episode. But um, my uh therapy coincided with the 2024 election. That's all I'm gonna say. So when we talk about media consumption, yes, my good mother. Yeah, let's just say your friend Jessica did not really engage with the internet for for a good solid two weeks. I was like on the TV and I it is what it is. Um, but yeah, it it was so critical not to be engaging with any of that and you know, really nourishing foods and and like taking care of myself in in all of the ways, really like indulgent television. I watched Agatha all along during that time, like you know, just like sweet and magical kind of imagery. Um, I do have like a fun question though. Did you have any unexpected experiences as a side result? Um and I can offer sort of like the answer that I'm curious about. Um I experienced synesthesia, but only for one day. So it was really, really funny. Um, you know, I like had come home the night before and I from the first medicine journey. And I was up the next day and I was like, you know, I'm like really in the mood for like it was very specific fruit. And so I wasn't expecting to go to the market. I put my headphones on, I go outside, and I could see the music, and I was like, whoa, like it was so intense. And I was like, what happens if I shuffle my music? Like, what music looks good? The best looking song I've ever seen is um uh oh my gosh, it's Van Halen right now. It looks so good. Oh, that's so cool. It was like, wow, I didn't know this song looked like this. And I was like a creature, like walking through the streets looking at music. And then when I got to the market, I was just staring at the food because I could like taste all of it by looking at it. So I must have looked really chaotic and creaturely.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02:The only um the only thing I think that happened that was unexpected and and like fun and weird is um during one of my maintenance doses, it's like a you know, follow-up after my initial um my actually I've told you this before in discussing Lily. And so I have a tiny um evil Chihuahua um rat terrier mix, and her name is Lillian. She's wonderfully evil, and she's so sweet and so cute. And uh I was taken to my appointment because if you do ketamine uh therapy, you usually need someone to take you to and fro because um you have you know uh mind brain melt. And my friend Emily was taking me, and they were like, Oh, do you want me to bring Lily in the car? So when you come out of the session, your puppy is here to give you cuddles. I was like, that is so thoughtful. Yes, please, thank you. Bring Lily in the car. And I was saying, well, Lily's sort of like a naughty dog because Emily hadn't puppy sat Lily before. And Emily was like, Oh, that's okay, that's fine. And so I gave Lily a little care package that um she could play with while Emily watched her with like chicken strips and all bones and all kinds of things. And Emily just sat in the car in the parking lot and waited for an hour and a half for me to finish up. And I told Lily to be good, and she said, No, thank you. And then I went in. I went in and was having a journey, and I don't even remember what I was doing, but I remember that a little uh Anubis looking spirit floated up to me, like the Egyptian deity Anubis. And I was looking at it and I was like, Lily, is that what you look like? Like in like in spirit, and she was like, Yes. I was like, Okay, and I was like, Are you being good for Emily? And she said, No. All right, well, I'm gonna be back later. Like, you need to go back. I but I promise I'm coming. And she was like, You better, and just drifted off. And then um, I guessed that that was about halfway through my journey. So I had a time estimation. And um, when I came out, I was telling Emily what happened. And Emily was like, Oh, what time was that? And I was like, Oh, I think it was about 1:30. And they were like, That's so interesting, because that's when she started threatening me. Must have been apparently she crawled on Emily and just started growling in her face. And Emily was like, Okay, little dog. And that's when Lily decided to come let me know that she was being a bad dog and that I needed to come back.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. I also had an astral projection during one of my sessions, which one of my friends, and we've talked about this as well, who uh lives in another country. We we talked about it and we figured out that in my journey, I remember like having a visualization of WhatsApp. And I remember actively thinking like of all the beautiful things I could be visualizing right now. Like, I don't want to be on WhatsApp, like, what the hell? And then I've talked to my friend the next day who said that they were having a dream around the same time where they could hear my voice, but it sounded like really garbly and like robotic and like crackly. So, you know, whenever someone has like an issue with their AirPods, I always say, like, oh, this is what my voice sounds like in the astral world. But it's it's so interesting, right? Oh my gosh, we have to talk about astral projection some other time.
SPEAKER_02:I have a crazy astral projection story that we should get into. Oh my god, it's nuts. Love, love, love.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think it's a good time to bring in our guest. So it's awesome. Thanks so much for being vulnerable with me. It wasn't easy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, we wanted to, we wanted to share that with listeners in case y'all could relate. You know, ketamine therapy isn't for everyone, but if you're thinking about it, even if the people around you don't really get what it is or get what you're doing, if you think it would be a good option for you, it's worth asking questions about it and learning more and talking to someone who's certified and qualified to help you make that decision.
SPEAKER_01:And if you just need a friend to talk to and you don't know anyone else who's gone through this kind of therapy, you have two right here that you can reach out to and chat with. Hello. Well, thank you so much. And now we'll bring in Juanita.
SPEAKER_02:Yay! We are here today with Juanita Vieira, who is a really dear friend of mine from my New York days. And um, I'm just so excited to share and talk about the modalities that Juanita uses because they sit so beautifully at the intersection of spirituality and wellness, which is definitely how we met. It's poetry and tarot workshop, I think. And yeah, at the tarot society back in the day. I love this. And um yeah, so I yeah, I think it's just such a beautiful um thing to talk about, how therapy can also help us access parts of ourselves that are maybe a little more magical or difficult to understand.
SPEAKER_01:Um I love this. And just full disclosure, that is also how I met Juanita was that I went to an event that Jez was having in New York, uh co-hosted by Juanita, and we were talking about tarot and self-trust and intuition. And I also like to say that I've been really serendipitously having modalities and healing um opportunities come into my life. I had never really thought about doing ketamine assisted psychotherapy. And then when we met, I was like, wait a minute, I feel like this is. Coming in for the the exact reason that I I think. And and it ended up being one of the most meaningful experiences of my life. Like truly that experience shaped everything for me in a very different way. So I'm very grateful for that.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, I'm so glad to hear that. It was so timely. Yeah. Synchronicity and worked out.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. And I I've also done ketamine assistive therapy, not with you because we're besties. With other clinicians. And yeah, I can't say enough good things about it in my personal experience. Um, Juita, would you like to introduce yourself for any listeners who are not familiar with you or your work?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'd love to. Thanks for inviting me here. I love to talk about this work. Uh and yeah, it's so exciting to share it. Um, so I'm Juanita Vieira, she, her pronouns, and identify as a New Rican, so a Puerto Rican New Yorker. And those two identities are really strong for me. Um yeah, and I grew up born and raised in the Bronx, and I live in Brooklyn now. I became part of this uh DIY Brooklyn scene after grad school, and I've been here ever since. And I'm a licensed creative arts therapist, so I have a licensure to I've mostly focused on visual art therapy, but I also incorporate other like spoken word, poetry, music, sound healing. Um yeah, and I am also CAP trained, so I'm academy and assisted psychotherapist.
SPEAKER_01:How did you get into uh CAP specifically? You know, I I think we should talk about your entire path and why you wanted to be a therapist and specifically uh an arts therapist, but then also how do you then compound onto that experience, the the CAP training and facilitation?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I'll give a little bit of a story time about my background in history, how I came to do art therapy, and then how I added in the academy therapy tool into the toolkit. Um, so yeah, when I was um, you know, being raised in the Bronx, it, you know, it's a low-income neighborhood, Caribbean, Puerto Rican, Jamaican. And I was being raised by a single mom, very feminist woman, and um very spiritual as well. So she was a big influence on me, um, connecting with the arts and also with spiritual practices. Um, and she always nurtured that in me. So the way that I would, you know, it was a bit stressful because I would have to, you know, support my mom while also, you know, being being a kid as uh happens with a lot of um, you know, my mom isn't an immigrant, it's my grandparents, but you know, like kind of second, third generation kids. Um, and so one of my coping mechanisms was I would make art about my feelings. I would also use art as almost like visioning, like vision board kind of stuff. Like I would imagine the future. Like I would make uh, you know, drawings about this is the home I'm gonna have and this is what I want the decorations to be. And each room is gonna be a theme. Or, you know, I would um make you know safe spaces like for me and my mom, or you know, put us in nature, things like that. So I always had that kind of impulse from a young age, and I was always encouraged. And then in New York City, um, there's something like a group of high schools called specialized high schools. So you can have a specialty, like a major when you're in high school. And so I ended up wanting to explore and pursue art um professionally. So I was like, I'm gonna go apply for this art school. So I got accepted into LaGuardia Arts. And so I would commute, yeah, an hour and a half each way from the Bronx to the school to go to high school and study the art mediums and then go back home. Um and I learned so much. I became, you know, a painter. I did watercolor, oil, there was graphic design, photography, like digital photography was just emerging. So there was like Nikon and Canon and Photoshop. You could learn that. And it was very exciting. I really enjoyed the experience there. It was a very diverse school.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I got oh, sorry, I just wanted to interrupt. LaGuardia is the fame school, right? For the listeners, yeah. So it's like a big deal.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a really, really big deal. Yeah, it's super hard to get into, actually. It's very competitive, which is funny because I think this is like a funny thing. Because I think people have art tutors, you know, like they prep to get into the school. And I just kind of like applied because I didn't really have those resources. So I was like, well, like, can't hurt to try. And my mom was like, Well, I have all your drawings here, like for the portfolio part of the audition. From she had saved like all these drawings. Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. I've loved this. Yeah. So you have to take an art test, you have to draw from imagination, draw still life, and they give you like a portfolio review. I don't know how they do it now, but that was back in the day and they interview you. Um, so yeah, I was accepted. Um, it was like one of my you know, big lucky breaks in life, I call it. And the universe like putting me on my path. And then everything started to unfold from there. So I was being raised in this uh very interesting religion. It's called Pentecostalism. It's very popular on the island in Puerto Rico. And um, so a lot of my art was like these Bible scenes from that I had made like watercolor paintings for my church. Um, so I was explaining that to my interviewers at the time. I remember that was a really funny moment too. I had this painting of Elijah and the chariot of horses that we went up into heaven. And I was like, Yeah, you guys don't know Elijah? Like from the Bible. I was very confused because I was very like insulated in this religion. So I was like, doesn't everybody study this? Like yeah, so that was like a real paradigm shift, like when I got into that school too. So I got exposed to other things like the Beatles music, you know, like I was like really like in this religion. Um, so I uh had a whole experience in high school. And then I would make art about that, like my two identities clashing. Um yeah, so it became very cathartic for me being in that school as well. It was exploring my identity through photography. I ended up working at a wedding photography company after school because I needed a job to help support my family. So I would go to school and then go to this wedding photography studio, which was in the Empire State Building.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So you had a real grown job.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Very memorable, iconic in my life. And so I so after that, I was like, yeah, I want to study more about the intersection between art and psychology because it's helping me. So maybe I can study art therapy. And I had a mentor in my church who had who had uh discussed this idea with. He was in college for pastoral counseling, and I'm still in touch with him to this day. So yeah, his name was Isaac. And um, yeah, he was like, Yeah, you should do art therapy. That's totally a thing, you know. That sounds like the right uh calling for you. Um, so he really encouraged me. Um was one of my earlier influences, like my mentors. And um so I yeah, I did that. I went, I got a full ride to the University of Rochester. I did psych and art double major, and then I went on to Nazareth College, a small grad school in Rochester, and I did my art therapy degree. Then I came back into the city and I actually worked in the Bronx in a school setting. So yeah, so I ended up being able to help kids like me. So that was really uh meaningful for me. And then yeah, I worked in all different agencies, different populations, started working with adults. And then um during the pandemic, that's when I became ketamine trained. So what was going on at the time was there was the big lockdown in New York City, and um there was a huge mental health crisis. So everyone, I had been working at a group practice at the time in Bushwick, and everyone became high risk. So it was looking like a lot of my clients were like having panic attacks or having suicidal ideations. And so I was thinking, okay, like I need something more um efficient, like a little bit faster. And so what you know, what one of the usual options would have been, well, you you transition them to a higher level of care, but at that time, that wasn't a really good option because all the hospitals were full. So where will you send the client who's having the mental health crisis? So I was like, okay, well, the high level of care needs to be here, you know, in the outpatient. So um, yeah, had been following maps. If you're familiar with that organization, they do a lot of advocacy work around research for MDMA in particular for PTSD. And so I had been um following them and I went to some of their trainings about harm reduction at festivals. So I was a little bit, you know, involved already with the psychedelic therapy movement. And I had read about research from the 50s, like with LSD. So I knew that, you know, I got exposed to psychedelics in college through the music and art scene. And so I was like, wow, like why isn't this used like in mental health? This is so quick and effective. So I had been following the research since it was banned and defunded. So when I saw that in 2019 the FDA approved ketamine treatment, I started reading about it. So I was like, oh, okay, so this is really good. They're saying treatment-resistant depression, they're saying really good for suicidal ideation. So it's like this is it, this is the next tool that I need. So I became trained in it in in 2021, completed the training.
SPEAKER_02:That is so cool. I just love hearing about your journey. And we've like talked about it before in the way that friends like share their lore. But it was just really cool to hear it, like all wrapped up. Like, this is how I got here.
SPEAKER_01:Right. It's like, that's my friend. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, so interesting. So I have actually participated in the map study for MDMA therapy, and it was profound and wild and um so incredibly helpful. Like what you're saying about it being like really quick felt so true. And I found ketamine is definitely a different modality and a different approach, but I find it really helpful for the same reason. Um, I hope that MDMA therapy can be approved and you know, legal for people who need it, because it is incredibly helpful. But um, you know, if anyone's listening and they're like, wow, who even does that? Who should do that? Um, who is a good candidate for psychedelic assisted therapy?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I would say people who are struggling with depression, anxiety, and PTSD or cycles of trauma. So like complex PTSD, it's a little bit harder to treat than one overwhelming incident. It's like it could be relational, you know, childhood abuse, that sort of thing. They often feel stuck with traditional talk therapy or modalities like that. So um, yeah, anybody who is kind of feeling stuck. So, like I said, the ketamine um therapy was approved for treatment resistant. So that they quantify that as um, you know, you've tried antidepressant medication, you've tried uh psychotherapy. So that will be treatment resistant. So now, you know, this is making you a good candidate for psychedelic assisted therapy. Um, but I also have worked with people who feel burnt out, like care from caregiving, activism, people who are at a life transition and seeking clarity for the next step. So I say the main key is the readiness, like a willingness to explore your subconscious, openness to trust the process, um, having support systems in place. You don't want to go and do psychedelic assisted therapy if you're in a housing crisis or some kind of you know abusive relationship, that wouldn't be a good timing for you. So, you know, having some stability and I think having tried, you know, doing some work um in terms of therapeutic work before doing the psychedelic therapy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm I'm willing to be a little bit um open about my experience too, because I think that you're talking about something that really resonated with me. And I think in my experience, you know, I had been uh assaulted in 2013. In 2014, I had been through some sort of traumas, like experiencing people um being hospitalized long-term in my family. Uh there were definitely thought patterns that had been imprinted in my brain at that point. And when I went back to talk therapy, maybe like 2023, 2024, um I started talking about things in therapy that I had not spoken about in over a decade. And the therapist at that time had suggested to me that perhaps I had um obsessive-convulsive disorder. And at the age of 40, we were talking about something that I had been living with my whole life. Um, it was like the first time that I had ever talked about having a STEM when I was a child, you know, in the 80s. They were just like, stop doing that. You know, they they it's so there were so many behaviors that I was exhibiting. There were so many thought patterns that I was exhibiting that I just kept putting on the back burner for so long. So having that diagnosis and then being able to say, well, there's gotta be something more because talk therapy was not going to get me there. And the the help that I received from Ketaman psychotherapy, I can't ever, you know, verbalize how much that experience changed my life and how much I saw in the months that followed from the treatment. Just I shifted as a person. And it was incredible to me to be able to let go of some of those thought loops. So I will always be forever grateful for that experience. Um and I also say this I don't know that I could have gone through a traditional model. So the the art therapy piece that you incorporate into your healing to me was also transcendent, right? It just really created this whole holistic experience. So, how have you created this model across art and music? It is truly one of the loveliest experiences I've ever had in my life.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, so I want to uh touch on something you said about the OCD and the thought loops first, and then I'll get into you know how the art therapy uh, you know, integrates well with the ketamine therapy. So, yeah, the other part of you know how ketamine therapy works is the neuroplasticity. So it's done several doses, and each time you do the dose, there's a compounding effect. So the thought patterns with like CPTSD or OCD or depression or anxiety, it's like your neurons that have fired together or wired together. So you might try like CBT, where you know, you're doing talk therapy, and you're like, oh, I see, I have a negative core belief based on a bad experience before. So now I keep saying this thought like the world is dangerous, or you know, I'm a bad person, or you know, these negative core beliefs about yourself or the world. And you might be trying to get out of the thought pattern logically through the the thinking therapies and reframing it. And some people are able to, but uh other times it's just so deep in the body and nervous system and automatic. And because of the way neuroscience works, so the ketamine therapy will open your neuroplasticity and then it's easier to redirect those thoughts or train your brain. So we also work with integration, like, okay, now that you're in this neuroplastic window and your brain is more receptive and flexible, what do we want to program it into now? Um, so yeah, that being said, you know, the art is offers a nonverbal bridge. So medicine experiences, they often go beyond language. So the art allows clients to bring back images, textures, metaphors that words can't hold. A lot of times people have, you know, very uh mystical or spiritual experiences as well in the ketamine space. It's a dissociative anesthesia. So, you know, your body will go dumb and you'll go into this deep meditative state where you're like having distance and space, and you could actually observe your subconscious. Um and so that could be what they call an ineffable experience. Like it's so intense and so big. How do you describe this? This is undescribable. Um, so I think that the art uh really helps with that um in terms of being able to communicate. Um, so in my groups, art is also done in prep and in integration. So before the art becomes like a shared virtual, like this is what I'm coming in with. Let's make this invisible visible. Um, and we also use it to prep people's mindset. So it's really important for you to have like an intention where you're saying, okay, I want to explore grief or I want to trust myself more, but then letting go of expectations, like the medicine's gonna flow, we're gonna see how that's gonna relate to your grief, but we don't want to cling to that. So the art really helps people. So we'll do fluid type of art, abstract art, scribble drawings, watercolor to help people get in that mindset. Like something is going to illuminate here, but you also have to go with the flow to see what it's gonna be. You have to stay curious. And so I'll lead people in exercises like that, where we do the scribble drawing and people look for the images, and then they're saying, Oh, that's what's on my mind and my subconscious. So this is gonna be how the medicine's gonna work too. And then we'll also do, you know, rock paintings on the day before we dose and the day of the medicine session. And so people can write a word or intention on the rock, build an altar together, bring in other meaningful objects, photos, um, so we can also create that container. And it is really different from you know, going to like a ketamine infusion clinic, which is going to be a little bit more clinical and stay more verbal. So that's how you know we can kind of enhance the treatment with the with the art making. And then when people come and you know, out of the ketamine space, it also helps with uh, you know, the integration process. Like you have a tangible thing where you can put the artwork on your fridge or save it on your wallpaper, on your phone or on your computer. So that also reminds you like this is the general mood or theme of what came out in my journey. And I have to remember to apply that insight and make these changes now.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that's so cool, really. Like everything that goes into it. And what you were saying about um how this type of therapy can be helpful if the associations are just so deeply embedded really spoke to me because I am I'm a very like intellectual kind of analytical person, which people don't always expect if you're like a professional fortune teller. But actually, intuition and logic are very like strange but close bedfellows. And um, I feel like I got to a point in my therapy with therapists who I really love and who were very skilled, where I was like, Yeah, I understand my trauma inside and out. Like I know exactly how I got here, I understand how it affects me, but that doesn't help me like feel it, process it. It doesn't help me like do that deeper work that I just felt like I wasn't getting to. And that is something that um specifically the combination of ketamine-assisted therapy and art and processing modalities was really helpful because I've done the you just go to a clinic thing, and it was fine. And I think that can be fine for a lot of people, but not for me, who is I'm an aesthetic bitch, I need things to be useful, I need things to feel magical, I need it to be ritualized, like so. Your approach really speaks to me. And um I was wondering, you know, a lot of thought goes into this. What guides the choices and the types of art integration you offer, or like music and meditation that really assists the process? Like, how do you know what to do?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think about a couple of different things. So, first, you know, my approach is informed with my art therapy training. So when you become trained as an art therapist, they teach you about different mediums, uh, materials, actually. So let's say someone is coming in and they're super rigid, you want to give them flowy materials, watercolors, you want to balance them. If they're like really chaotic and all over the place, you want to try to contain them to balance a smaller canvas, uh, collage, like, you know, materials that are really structured. Um, so I think about that, like people's nervous systems, the archetypal layers people maybe touching, uh, what culture they come from, what are their symbols. So we have an assessment process where we get to know the client. So it really is customized. Uh, for example, with music or sound, you know, we can also incorporate like drumming, heartbeat rhythms, can ground the body. So I work with a trained music therapist, so she kind of makes those choices for us. But, you know, she'll choose between that or maybe like a spacious ambient soundscape, which could invite more expansion. So we work similarly, like where we're sort of looking at the client and how they're presenting and then offering the recommendations that we we are trained in. Um, you know, for art, you know, sometimes we use a sand tray to externalize people's inner landscapes or what they experience in the medicine journey. So people will make a digital collage with the sandtray um tool that I like to use. Or, you know, we'll use, like I said, watercolors for fluidity or collage to piece together fragments if people feel really scattered. So we just really let the the theme, the medicine themes, and then the client needs guide the choices rather than like forcing a formula on people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it makes so much sense.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I love that. You know, I'm thinking about what you're saying now, and it's taking me back to something that you said at the beginning when you were talking about creating these artscapes where you were imagining a space for you and your mom that was safe, and you were creating these artistic worlds, and you know one thing that came up for me before I tried this modality is I'm going to be basically doing drugs and full of strangers. And, you know, not for nothing, but especially because I'm going to explore themes of physical safety, yeah, you know, breaking out of the loops of some thought patterns around physical safety. That was something that was thematic for me. So it's it must be something that you're thinking about as well and creating these environments for your clients. So, you know, you're creating this safe home for your clients. What would you say to someone that that's on their mind? You know, they're thinking about is this safe for me? How can I prepare to have this kind of experience when I don't know how my body may or may not react? Um, what's some guidance that you would give to someone thinking about doing this for the first time?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a really important part of this, the trauma-informed safety. So my training is also with trauma. So with trauma, you want to give people choices. Yeah. So I always say, you know, when I have like a consult, you know, you can do individual ketamine therapy, work with us. You don't have to join the group if that's not speaking to you right now. Um, but I do encourage people that, you know, uh we're gonna be in charge, you know, me and the co-therapist. So we're not gonna let any unsafe stuff go on, you know, and we vet the group members as well. So we put people in the group that are ready. We actually um do a container um, you know, called Heal the Healer. So a lot of our group work is for people who also are therapists or health professionals, nurses, or they're working nonprofits. Um, so really people who are very empathic and like caregiving type people and like very considerate, over considerate, thoughtful people. So I think the groups itself will attract, you know, very safe people. Um, yeah. And then, you know, you also have prep calls together. So in the prep call, you know, people get to introduce themselves, like, you know, build that a little bit of trust before you go and do the medicine sessions. Um so yeah, we just we host those, we go over all the logistics QA, like if I get nauseous, what should I do? You know, um, is there an option to step aside with one of the therapists to another room? You know, we we go over all of those choices so that people really feel like they're opting in. Like you have to consent to doing this medicine work and to group therapy.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And I always like to share that one of my first visualizations that I had was as I was, you know, moving into the medicine journey. I imagine Juanita and the music therapist as Our Lady of Guadalupe. Like that was the first vision that came into my head. So I I knew I was very safe there. It's like my brain is coming up with this association. So I loved that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's so beautiful. In one of my recent groups, um, the music therapist Laura, she was singing into the singing bowl, like humming, doing some vocal, and people really found that very nurturing. They're like, oh, I felt like a baby, like being, you know, sung to by a mom. But I also felt like the mom at the same time, and like mothering my inner child is very cool. So, you know, uh, bringing in like our own voice or art modalities, exercises that have worked for us, we really have that personal touch that helps people feel safe. Like, Bill, that it's relational work too. Like you're basically, you know, trying this out, like you're taking a risk to say, okay, can I trust people again? You know, and that's part of the healing work, is a reparative experience. So there is that relational opportunity, and then there's also in the medicine itself, you're gonna feel bliss. You know, it's an antidepressant, anti-anxiety medicine. So you're gonna use that new experience of like, oh, I felt joy for the first time, or my chronic pain went away after years, and then you can resource that to bring that back to your daily life. Like, oh, that's what it would feel like if I didn't have anxiety.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you're making me think of um another question, really, that I think is so helpful. But with the ketamine-assisted therapy and and probably other types of um modalities people try out for healing where you feel like you've been transformed and there's sort of maybe like a soft, squishy afterglow. But with ketamine, there's like literally a neuroplasticity window. Um, what do you recommend for people like for aftercare, whether they literally are doing CAP or they are going through some other spiritual therapeutic transformative process and they're thinking about how to be tender with themselves and make small but um consistent changes in the next few days or weeks?
SPEAKER_00:This is something a really good question, especially for New Yorkers, because we do these ketamine uh groups in the city, so it's not like you're going off to like, you know, a retreat center. So we really have to emphasize like people need to not overschedule themselves. Like, if you're gonna be doing the ketamine treatments, like clear your schedule because the whole thing about the neuroplasticity will only work if you stay in the energy. So you need to slow down and be gentle, like meander, you know. Like if you have nothing scheduled the next day, that's great. Just like take a long time. Like go to the park, you know, very simple things. Almost like you're nurturing a new baby, you know, just focusing on your own energy. Um, we tell people don't have uh make drastic life changes, like no, because sometimes you know you're in the medicine, you're like, oh, I really need to quit my job or break up with this person. You know, so we're saying just sit with it, you know, don't do anything drastic in the next 24 hours. Um sometimes you become sensitive and it's almost like an emotional release, you know, like you've been suppressing something, and then it's like now you're overwhelmed. So you really want to make decisions in your right mind. So we encourage people to do more like journaling and sitting with emotions and processing. Um, we tell people declutter your home so when you come home, it's nice and you know, get fresh flowers and candles and make sure the media you consume, you know, like don't go on social media and read a bunch of you know negative news. Um, is really thinking about like how you want your mind to be uh reset, reformed. So it are there affirmations you want to work with, guided meditations, um, diet, sleep, and exercise. So we tell people about, you know, setting their sleep or changing their into healthier eating or um doing more meditation, yoga, exercise routines. So all of that, um, there are different areas of integration, you know, there's like physical or spiritual or community. So, like who are safe people that you want to share with? That's something that we also uh suggest to think about who do you share these experiences and who do you need more boundaries with? Because especially in the beginning uh years with ketamine therapy was very stigmatized. So people would like have, you know, panic the client because they would be like, you're gonna do what? You know, and then that would be like an influence. So um, yeah, at least like really thinking about that. Who's gonna be your accountability buddy too? Like when you start to try to shift these things, who do you actually feel uh is gonna be sensitive to hold you accountable and also encourage you? So lots of different recommendations for integration.
SPEAKER_02:But how long should you think of you like being in that window? Like how long should you be clearing your schedule?
SPEAKER_00:I think definitely the day right after should be clear. Yeah. Especially nothing the day of like in the evening if you're you know going back home. Um yeah, it would be great. We try to schedule these on the weekends so people don't have to like go back to work right away. Um, yeah, so you know, we're we're realistic about it. People have to work and make money and stuff, but you know, we just say as long as possible you can hold it off. That'll be great because then your brain is gonna go back into like the logic mode of you know, logistical working mode.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It's also just good practice to like plan rest. It's it's good practice.
SPEAKER_01:And that brings me to some of the things that you've sort of mentioned in passing before, but I want to put an underline on because these are phrases that you leave with the groups or with your clients. You know, you say a lot, have set an intention, but don't have an expectation on an outcome, and then really just trust and let go. And I loved those philosophies. I came back to those over and over again to really just sort of keep myself calm, keep myself from from overthinking or try to project an outcome of what might happen. So I would love to talk about these being your philosophies and and how you came to them and how you work with them, with your clients.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So you definitely uh come to these uh sayings through psychedelic therapy training as well. So, you know, like TLO is like a very common one that we're trained in. So it's like trust, let go, be open. Um, a lot of people use surrender or just breathe. So when we are doing prep work before people go into medicine spaces, we'll also teach them these sort of anchors, I call them, or mantras or affirmations that you can use as reminders. Because a lot of times, um, so if you think of the medicine journeys as having like a launch and then a journey and then a landing, a lot of times on the launch you can have turbulence. So it's like your body's kind of like panicking because you're like feeling the medicine go in and you're like, oh my god, what's happening? Um, or a lot of people can be like, Am I doing this right? Like, am I, you know, tripping, or what's how's everybody else in the group doing, or where's the that, you know, you just the monkey mind can start going. So um that's why we prepare ahead of time, saying, like, okay, if that starts to happen, just be like TLO, like trust, let go, be open. And we say, connect with your breath. So take some deep breaths if that starts happening, and then you'll see the medicine will start flowing, you'll start going into the journey, and it'll be more smooth sailing with those, with those strategies. Um, yeah, another thing I teach is just like uh self-touch, like you know, putting a hand on the heart space or on the belly. Um that could be really soothing and grounding. I tell people, connect with the music. Just like try to wiggle or dance so you can get back into the present moment of like just uh connecting with the music in the journey. Um yeah. And then, you know, if uh people need support, that's also okay. So we tell people, you know, we raise your hand and we'll come sit beside you. Like even sometimes just having someone present near you is very comforting. Um so yeah, I would say those, those are like philosophies and approaches that then you also translate into your day-to-day, you know, like when I'm too like overthinking, I can use my grounding tools that I learned for medicine work. You know, I could put uh feel my feet on the ground. I can do my, you know, where are my five senses? Like what do I see, hear, taste, touch, come back to the moment. Um, you know, I can maybe I had like an insight in the medicine journey that was like, you know, trust the flow of life. And I could say that to myself in my day-to-day.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's such um it's such a hard thing to trust, but I like that there are touchstones for it. And I also like that you encourage people to ask for support because that, like you were saying earlier, that experience of being vulnerable and being safe to be vulnerable and having people come to you with comfort and good intentions is profoundly healing in and of itself. That was something that um not so much with the had mean experience for whatever reason for me. Um, but when I did the MDMA treatment, they had told me that like either you will feel really warm, happy, fuzzy, ecstatic, or you will like revisit the um nightmare of your traumas. Oh wow, and they were like, it's probably gonna be the nice one. It wasn't for me.
SPEAKER_00:No, oh no, but MCMA can be um more that way, like amplifying more content. Whereas ketamine has a different signature, it's more neutral and yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I agree very much. My experience with ketamine was way more neutral and just like much more chill, much more, you know, um soothing. Um, but the experience of letting people come to my aid when I was really stressed out doing the MDMA study um was profoundly healing in and of itself. And it was it like allowed me to just be like, cool, this is the experience I'm happy having, having it for a reason. I'm just gonna trust that I'm safe. And it that was profound. And so, yeah, not again, not my experience with ketamine at all. That was a very chill experience. I've done several rounds um to to help manage um chronic PTSD or sorry, complex PTSD and um depression, nerve pain, all kinds of uh things that ketamine can be helpful for. And um it's become part of my toolkit where it's something that I'll revisit, like obviously under the care of a clinician. Um, but it's like, especially in the darker months of the year, like when the sun goes away, I find it really helpful to revisit like a ketamine session and do some processing. And I usually have really helpful visions. My ancestors show up, like it has like been consistently really supportive for me. And uh, we always like to ask our guests like, what do you find supportive for your own personal divination, your own personal healing? What are some of your favorite tools?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I love to use and work with tarot, as you know, Oracle card decks. Um, I'm very symbolic. So that really taps me into my intuition or my spiritual self. I'll be like, oh, that makes sense. I was feeling that, but this is now clear what once I have this symbol. Um, and I love to use that scribble drawing exercise on myself. And you can do a bilateral, meaning two hands, you can scribble with both, and that lights up both sides of the brain, and then making an image out of the scribble, I'll be like, oh, this is like what's on my mind. Um yeah, so I use those things, and then I love to kind of use somatic practices too. So I do a lot of yoga, so once or twice a week I'll go to yoga, and also once a week I do a sauna cold plunge. Yeah, it just helps me stay grounded. Yeah, it resets my body, my nervous system. And I find that really important um with the type of uh trauma therapy work I do. And I always recommend to people that if you're a therapist, to have your own therapy and not just your own individual therapy, but group uh peer consultations too. So I belong to like a Puerto Rican healers group. Uh, we talk about cases, decolonizing therapy approaches. We read books, like we have a monthly book that we read and discuss together. Um, so really like having community as well.
SPEAKER_02:That's so cool. What a wonderful resource.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I also um have found my way into the DIY, like I said, art scene, the Burning Man community, and that has been really nourishing for me. I found like a community that also values spirituality, but also individuality and creative expression. So I love to just immerse myself in those environments. There I have a lot of um immersive dance parties that have you know engage all the senses. Like there's a theme, there's art there, there's different uh workshops you can do. Uh, I'm really into like movement therapy, like dance therapy, ecstatic dance, five rhythms, all that good stuff. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I love some movement therapy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:How can people support your work or where can they find you, or what resources can they connect to it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, people can support my work um mainly through word of mouth, spreading the word. So I can be found on Instagram at art.gov.integration. I have a website, integrationarztherapy.com. So you can join my mailing list, um, follow my stories, joining groups or workshops. So I will host, you know, art and sound wellness events every so often. Um, people can join our ketamine groups. We always have a full fee spot, and then we also offer uh accessible slots for BIPOC or low-income folks. So if you can't afford that, you know, full fee spot, you can also help someone to access this treatment. Um, I also like to collaborate. So inviting me to collaborate on projects that align with healing or creativity or community building so people can support my work that way. And yeah, just by honoring this work as part of a larger movement. You know, we're going towards collective care, seeing this not as like an isolated therapy service, but just part of reimagining how we heal together, how we reconnect with the planet. Um, so yeah, those are all ways to connect and stay in touch.
SPEAKER_02:Beautiful. This was so fun to chat to you about your very fascinating work and we really appreciate all the work you do in this sphere.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much. Yeah, it's really uh exciting to have the opportunity to talk about um all this beautiful, you know, journeys that I've witnessed too and all this beautiful work.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and I and I've said it, but I'll say it again. It truly transformed my life in a way that it was such a gift. And I will always be so grateful for the gift that you gave me. So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, everyone, please check out those links. And I can't say enough good things about collaborating with you professionally. So people should definitely reach out whether they want to join your group or get you on a project.
SPEAKER_00:You're the one. We always like to form our groups around this nature cycles too. So we have one, you know, coming up for winter, around New Year's, resetting in the in the darker, colder months, and then we'll have a spring one as well.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you again.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_03:Come beat me in the eye material. The eye material. The material.
SPEAKER_01:Immaterial world is hosted by Jessica Richards and Jasmina Monkella. Music by Dia Luna. Artwork by Lane Fred. Follow us at Immaterial World Pod on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Visit our website at www.immaterial dashworld.com. Or send us an email at Immaterial World Pod at gmail.com. Welcome to the immaterial world.