.png)
Immaterial World
A dedicated and transparent space to re-center how we explore glamour, fashion, magic, wellness, culture, and everything else we love, together.
hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele
Immaterial World
MUSIC IS A MANTRA with Dia Luna
Dia Luna is the sly alias of Mexican-American artist Andrea Diaz and the name of her art-pop project with her cousin, main producer, and engineer, Tomas Deltoro-Diaz.
Dia Luna collages a variety of sounds and influences to create music that is both artful and familiar. Her live set pushes the boundaries of performance, utilizing looping as a method of layering her luscious vocals and breathing life into her song arrangements.
While Dia Luna is Andrea’s primary vehicle of expression, her creativity travels effortlessly across many distinct avenues, including collaborative music projects as a songwriter, lead vocalist, and backing vocalist; as well as composing exceptional vocal arrangements, compelling lyrics, and surprising melodic elements as a producer.
Her work also encompasses film and creative direction, while her spiritual practice has guided her toward working with others as a tarot reader and advisor, using her inherent sensitivities and her deep knowledge of visual symbols to help others clarify their desires and dreams.
In this episode, Dia talks about the power of shaping energy through music, creating the Immaterial World theme song, and so much more.
Musical Inspirations mentioned: Amarae, Dua Saleh, Kate Bush, Ibrahim Ferrer
Watch some of Dia Luna's music videos: June, Wilderness, Cerulean, Your Present, In the Air Tonight
Become an Immaterial World supporter!
Hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele
For bookings and for more about Jessica visit: www.the12th.house and Instagram: @jessicaxrich
For bookings and for more about Jezmina visit: www.jezminavonthiele.com and Instagram: @jezmina.vonthiele
Music and editing by DIA LUNA
Instagram: @dialunamusic
Artwork by Lane Friend
Instagram: @friendlane
Welcome to Immaterial World, a dedicated and transparent space to recenter how we explore glamour, magic, culture, and everything else we love together.
SPEAKER_00:Immaterial world, come meet me in the immaterial world. As far as the galaxy goes, we're flying in the inmaterial world. In the material world, come meet me in the material world. We're flying in the material world.
SPEAKER_06:Dia Luna is the sly alias of Mexican-American artist Andrea Diaz in the name of her art pop project with her cousin, main producer, and engineer Tomas del Toro Diaz. Dia Luna collages a variety of sounds and influences to create music that is both artful and familiar. Her live set pushes the boundaries of performance, utilizing looping as a method of layering her luscious vocals and breathing life into her song arrangements. While Dia Luna is Andrea's primary vehicle of expression, her creativity travels effortlessly across many distinct avenues, including collaborative music projects as a songwriter, lead vocalist, and backing vocalist, as well as composing exceptional vocal arrangements, compelling lyrics, and surprising melodic elements as a producer. Her work also encompasses film and creative direction, while her spiritual practice has guided her toward working with others as a tarot reader and advisor, using her inherent sensitivities and her deep knowledge of visual symbols to help others clarify their desires and dreams.
SPEAKER_08:We are here with one of our pod besties today. So excited. Hi Dia, how are you?
SPEAKER_03:I'm so good. How are you?
SPEAKER_08:I'm so good. Um, I'm wondering if our listeners recognize your voice because they probably heard it just a few seconds before we started this episode. Dia, how do we know you? How would our podcast listeners know you?
SPEAKER_04:Well, they might recognize my voice because I wrote and performed the theme song for Immaterial World. So yeah, that's my voice uh before each episode, and I really love that song. I um heard a melody in my head right after we all had talked about me doing the song for the show, and I felt like it was really a gift from the ancestors and from the universe.
SPEAKER_06:So yeah. Yeah, and I'm so happy that you did because I will I need to tell the listeners um that you know what you're doing because originally Jess and I were like, Yeah, it probably doesn't need lyrics, like you know, just need some pretty vocalizations, don't worry about lyrics, and then you gave us a song with lyrics, and I'm like, Well, I was wrong. We did need lyrics, and we needed these lyrics. Jessica. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_04:I'm so happy that you feel that way. I honestly I think I just got so excited about it. I was like, oh, this is what it has to be.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, we love it so much. And people always say that they enjoy it or it's in their head, and yeah, so it just makes us really happy that you're a part of it's because especially because you and I have been friends for so so long. We go way back, way back to New York. Yes, way back to pre-pandemic days, even. Yeah, and um, I was gonna be your backup dancer for a show, and then we just never stopped being friends.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I'm so happy that that's true and that we've continued to be friends for so long. Uh, big shout out to Lisa Marie Basile who introduced us. Yay.
SPEAKER_08:Wait, I'm so upset about this lore because I am not included. And it sounds like this thought of Dia performing and Jez being a backup dancer and this all happening in New York and me being here blissfully unaware, it just feels like a timeline that needed to collapse because I'm jealous. But now we're here. So funny. But I will say I do have to go back to the lyrics of the song one more time because everyone that I know that listens to the podcast always says, Oh my god, that song sounds exactly like you. And it is, it is my favorite compliment in the world. So give Dia all the flowers. It's so whimsical and it feels like us, and it feels exactly like Immaterial World. Um, so thank you for not listening to us because we were so insistent on no lyrics.
SPEAKER_04:We're like, no, it's okay. And you were like, um, no. Well, honestly, thank you so much for rolling with it. Um, that was partially my Gemini ADHD. But then also I felt really inspired by the story that you had told me about Jez reading your cards for you and um her kind of describing this image of like uh a Barbie heart inside of an anatomical heart. Uh, and I really wanted the lyrics to kind of convey that and to give a sense of joy.
SPEAKER_08:That reading will live in perpetuity, the lore of the anatomical heart or the Barbie heart wrapped in the anatomical heart. Wow. Wow.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, this podcast is definitely steeped in lore, and it's amazing that the listeners are part of that now.
SPEAKER_08:Love, love, love, love. I know that you're friends and that Jez knows your story and that you've known each other for a while, but let's start in the beginning days of Dia. Like tell us all about the the early ages, the early stages, and how you got to where you are now.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my goodness. Well, yeah, it's definitely been a journey and quite a long process. Um, I started singing when I was a kid. And uh yeah, I think initially it was my dad who realized that I could sing. I always used to sing along to my favorite, one of my favorite Disney movies, um, The Little Mermaid. And so he actually had brought up the idea of me going to voice lessons, which I resisted because I was a pretty shy kid, and the thought of like being on stage or doing anything like that was pretty fucking terrifying to me. Um and honestly, sometimes it still is, but um, but I did end up going and I was a part of this voice studio where uh we would do like small shows every month. And I remember the first song I sang was uh Anastasia's Journey to the Past. Um, and I think it's pretty interesting because a lot of the song is about like recovering a sense of identity and then also uh like having courage to move forward in life. So I think that that's pretty cool that that was the first song that I ever sang in public. And um, I remember that the last there was this really big note at the end that was really long, and I just felt so much exhilaration and freedom and the fact that I could actually do that, that that was something that was available to me. Um so I just I was hooked after that.
SPEAKER_08:Oh my god, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So after that, um I kept performing, and when I was 15, I started songwriting, and then I got into art school in New York. Uh, I started playing in bands there, and I just never really stopped. Um and then my project, Dia Luna, started probably around 2017. Um, I had come back from a really um transformative ayahuasca ceremony, and I felt like I had all of this music inside me. Um, particularly there's a song called June that I again kind of like heard fully formed immediately after this ceremony had been completed, and that kind of started my journey uh with this grouping of songs that became my first EP that I created with my cousin called Camellia. Uh, that's my cousin Tomás del Toro Diaz, who's my main engineer and a really super gifted producer and musician in his own right. We had a really organic collaboration together. Um, he had also gone to art school, and so it just felt pretty natural to create music together. So here's a little clip of June. So right now we're actually working on a full-length record that I'm really excited about, which um is integrating a lot of our different sonic interests like industrial music and funk and RB into like a brand new experience.
SPEAKER_06:That I can't wait for your next project. Do you have a sense of when people might be able to listen to it or is it a secret secret?
SPEAKER_04:It's definitely not a secret. Um we're trying to get it done as soon as possible. We've been working really diligently on the songs, and I hope that we will be able to release it next fall, uh, fall of 2026.
SPEAKER_06:We'll definitely check in about it. When the time is coming, we'll let listeners know when and where they can find it. But you know, keep an eye out in 2027 or 2026, sorry, everyone. I don't know what year it is. I'm overwhelmed.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, does anyone know what year it is? I don't really think so.
SPEAKER_08:Uh so it in the meantime, people can enjoy the work that you're doing for commercial projects. And we were just talking about our very prolific opening theme song. How how do you create commercial work for people and things that are going to live outside of you that represent other people's brands or personas? What inspirations are you pulling from, or knowing them, or meeting them? How do you create for others in that way?
SPEAKER_04:I really love creating songs for other people. Um, typically, you know, clients will send me some visual references or a few song references that I can look to for inspiration, and I find that super helpful. Um, I really love working with specific constraints uh because I feel like it helps me edit what I'm doing uh like very quickly. And it also gives me the opportunity to kind of be adaptable like as a songwriter and to try working in genres that I wouldn't necessarily uh work in or write in for my own creative project, Dia Luna. So that's really fun for me, and I get a lot of pleasure in doing that for people. Um, like for example, I wrote the intro song for Jasmina's other podcast called A Most Interesting Monster, and her and her co-host had given me a few references, and I ended up writing a song that sounded very like akin to a B52 style kind of like retro monster mash song. Um, and yeah, that was fun.
SPEAKER_06:It's so good, it's so good. Actually, we should we should let people listen to it. I mean, you can go over to A Most Interesting Monster and and subscribe as you should, but we'll put in a little bit of it here.
SPEAKER_04:Totally, listeners. This is a little clip from uh the theme song of A Most Interesting Monster.
SPEAKER_00:Uh most interesting monster, a most interesting monster, a most interesting monster, a most interesting monster.
SPEAKER_04:So yeah, I loved working on that song, and um another project that I worked on recently was uh my friend Wit Hertford's beautiful short film called Tragic Figure, um, which is a really cool film adaptation, short film of the story of Oedipus, and he had given me um several references, including um Mika Levy's soundtrack for the film Under the Skin, which was a horror movie with Scarlett Johansson, and the music in that is really eerie, but it's also like very sensual and kind of sexy in a weird way. Um, but yeah, it's definitely still off-putting too. And so, you know, I kept that in mind, and I was really inspired by these beautiful, surreal images that were in Witt's short film, uh, a lot of which is based in the desert. So I really tried to work with those references in mind um to capture both the horror elements and to balance them with the more tender elements, uh, and then also to find the spaces where the silence should exist.
SPEAKER_06:That sounds fascinating. I mean, you have a really interesting portfolio of work in general out, and we would love to hear about you know your earlier EP, your early inspirations for your personal projects. And I know you've done a lot collaborating with bands too. So like tell us a little more about your inspiration over the years, because I'm sure you have eras like other art, any other artist does.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah, definitely. Um, well, the first EP that I wrote with my cousin was around 2017, 2018. And at the time I was living in New York and I was going back and forth to um where I grew up in Sacramento, California, uh to, you know, spend time with my family. And uh during the years that we were working on the EP, a lot of things happened uh to us individually and then kind of collectively in our families. So um our grandparents passed away, and my cousin's wife had his first son, and I was also in New York just like collaborating with a lot of different musicians, kind of like bringing my dream of performing and songwriting and being like a musician for real to life. So the first DP that we released, Camellia, is I think a meditation on you know, personal identity versus familial roots and what it means to be a part of a family, but then also what it means to be an individual, uh, navigating lots of different changes and transitioning basically from being a child into somebody with more autonomy or more agency. We explored a lot of different genres in that EP together. Um, and I think that, you know, between my cousin's production and the connecting thread of my voice, they do end up kind of working uh as a whole, but we yeah, we definitely covered a broad spectrum of sounds. Um and yeah, like during my time in New York, I collaborated with a lot of different musicians and songwriters. I had a a jazz noir, you know, torch song kind of project with my friend Joe McGuinty, where it was just primarily piano and voice. Um he's an incredible pianist, and I grew up listening to people like Nina Simone and Billy Holiday. So I always really loved um just having that simplicity of piano and voice to really like showcase my songwriting. And um, and then I also played in a band called Superhuman Happiness, which was more like experimental electronic pop. And that was led by my friend Stuart Bogie, and we wrote a record together called Beacon, which I still really love, and we got a chance to tour and play all kinds of shows in Brooklyn and other parts of the states.
SPEAKER_06:Those were such fun shows to go to as well. I just had wonderful little flashbacks to go. Yeah, that was really perform. And now you're in um LA, so people can still go hear you perform.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah, definitely. Um, I have played some really fun shows this year with the Dia Luna music. Um I have a great guitarist named Jonathan Bearford who has really helped me uh pick up the show situation, and uh every show that we've played this year has been sold out, which I feel really good about. Uh we played a great hometown show in uh Sacramento at the Crocker Art Museum. So yeah, I mean, right now my focus is mostly on the record, but I'm really excited to do some more live shows and really get the music out to folks.
SPEAKER_08:You're leaving out my favorite part though, which is the aesthetic and the styling of everything that you do. And before we met in person, Jez had sent over some of your videos, and I was like, okay, aesthetic queen. Like, yes. I was like, do I want to meet and collaborate with this person? Yes, I absolutely do. So yeah, I love music videos, and I especially for styling, there's a few videos that have really inspired me in my life that I constantly like pull from and like reference in my work. So you'll see those like over and over again as inspiration. But you know, your music videos are also extremely prolific and so beautiful and stunning. What informs the way that you're styling them? I mean, it sounds like you're really controlling every part of your brand image, not just the sound. So when you're building something out for a music video, and I'm just dying to know on a nerdy level because I love music videos so much. Like, how are you concepting this? How are you storyboarding it and putting it all together?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think a lot of it is intuitive.
SPEAKER_04:Um, I did go to school for art, and because of that, I felt like I had or I have a lot of references um visually for like storytelling and um different styles and different uh like reference points for how to tell a story. Um, but I also have a lot of really gifted collaborators like my friend Danny Gross, who is an incredible cinematographer and a dear friend of mine, and we've collaborated a lot together on music videos. Um and even, you know, before I really committed to like quote unquote being a musician, um, I had a friend of mine named Lucas McGowan who is again like an incredible cinematographer, and he shot a lot. Of cool videos for me as well. Um, but yeah, I think that for me, like typically when I get really excited about a song, I usually feel like a a visual pops up for me. And then I will do a mood board and probably a storyboard, and then I will enlist my collaborators to help me really execute that vision. And again, like luckily for me, they're really talented at what they do. Um, so they like help me bring the vision to life.
SPEAKER_08:Can we talk about the fashion though? And the makeup and the jewelry. I'm like, hello, I'm like jumping at the bit here.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah, like I totally love fashion um as another element of the storytelling. And I have to say, I mean, when I got to New York, I really had no style, and it it was such a valuable um education to be there and to learn how to use fashion as a way to express myself and express um the storytelling that I wanted to share. Um, I really love vintage shopping, and uh that was like a big trend when I was in high school, and I definitely learned and I continue to learn how to pull things um from secondhand and vintage stores. And to this day, I think that's like one of my favorite aspects of the production process is like being able to uh style the fashion and like pick pieces that reflect what I want the story to be.
SPEAKER_06:I love that. And I miss going vintage shopping with you. We found some really wonderful things.
SPEAKER_04:We did, and I really miss that. It's it's funny being in LA. I like it, but I also really miss the old uh the old New York vibes that I had.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I mean, we'll have to schedule a tour for an immaterial world tour. Yes, I would love that. Uh because yeah, listeners, I don't know if we made it super clear. It's in the credits, but um Dita is also our editor, so you you are very involved in the immaterial world. Yes, I am, and I like it that way. So do you believe that songs are spells or can be used in manifestation work? Because when I listen to your songs, I feel like they're spells. And it's not just because they're beautiful and I'm like under your spell, but I know you and I also know um what it feels like looking through your magical lens, and your songs very much feel like an extension of that.
SPEAKER_04:Oh yeah, thank you. Um, yeah, I really love this question because it did make me reflect on whether or not I think that that's true, and I do, I do, in fact, think um that songs are kind of spells because I think that at their core it's kind of like energy work, and um, I think it's really easy for music to create a mood or to bring out different parts of your personality. Um, like a really easy example I can think of is for me, um, you know, whenever I listen to salsa music or bachata or kumbia, I really I just like can't be sad. It immediately lifts my mood, and I feel like, oh, I have like a little spark, I have a little pep in my step again. And so, yeah, like in a very literal way, sound affects how we feel. And I'm also very aware of the fact that when I'm playing with sound, it's like a manipulation of energy in the same way that like practicing rituals or doing spell work is also uh essentially a manipulation of energy around us or the energy that we carry internally. Um, and yeah, like I mentioned earlier, I had sat in an ayahuasca ceremony where there was a portion of the ceremony where people could sing, and I had this very beautiful experience of singing and actually sing the way that my voice rippled out into space. Um, to me, it looked like, you know, when you drop a heavy rock into a lake and you see all of the ripples of water going out into the distance. Um, except that that was what was happening with um with my voice and with that energy, those words, that sentiment like going out into the air. So I think to me that really showed how we are literally like interacting with sound as waves. I also definitely think that you can use music as a mantra or as a way to ramp up certain kinds of energies in your life that you want to call in. And of course, like there's a ton of examples of this across cultures. Um, you know, like a lot of Buddhist practices have meditations or mantras that are chants. Um, or of course, there's always like gospel music or like medieval, you know, Gregorian chants. Um so I think it's always interesting to me because I feel like music is so impactful emotionally, and it just has a way of uh connecting people with the divine that is really different than other mediums. Personally too, like I've also found that when I create a ritual space for myself and I put music on and it's randomized that inevitably there will be messages that come through the music for me, right? Like the lyrics are actually saying something to me personally.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and you know, there's also like this component that ties into time, right? Because something else that I find really fascinating about songs and especially recordings is that they're like a snapshot of physical time. Like you're literally mapping the air when you do a recording. And it's wild to think about that, that that's like what's happening when my voice is going into a microphone. So, for that reason, I feel like there's also this time traveling element to music that's really special and really beautiful. And I hope that people appreciate when they're listening to songs, especially songs from different eras.
SPEAKER_08:Wait, this is blowing my mind right now as I'm sitting here thinking about it. Wow, this could be so existential. And I've I've used music uh for manifestation, and you know, we're all people of a certain age in this group. So electronic music for me, especially, like especially with the high BPMs, and it gets you going and it gets you excited. Um, last year, and I'm happy to offer this information since it's no longer my manifestation song. But Lola's theme by the shapeshifters was my spell. So I would listen to that song. I mean, I had an absurd amount of listens to it last year when I got my like Apple recap or whatever they sent you. It was like, you're the shapeshifter's number one fan. I was like, I was like, no one's listened to this song in 20 years, like I have. So I but I listened to that song over and over and over, and it was like so evocative to me. The music and even what you're saying now, I'm imagining like pulling whatever energy that I was vibing with in like 2005, whenever that song originally came out, and like coming back into this time.
SPEAKER_04:And ooh, ooh, crazy. For sure. And that's the other thing too. Like, songs are anchors, so they're like anchoring you potentially not only to your emotional experience, but also to a time and place. And I think also similarly to fashion, because they're so embedded in our day-to-day life, um, they can become this vehicle to like transport us into like other kinds of memories. And again, as a medium, I think that music has an immediacy that other um that other art forms don't necessarily have.
SPEAKER_06:Are there any musicians that you tend to listen to in that way? Or I mean this could be like musicians who have inspired you, but it can also be are there musicians you turn to for spell work? Like if you're doing a song as a spell or listening with this kind of manifestation in mind.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've listened to several artists like Amorae and Dua Sale pretty recently to kind of cultivate an attitude of like confidence and sensuality that I feel really comes through in their music. Like both of them have really cool um kind of afro-beat electronic music. And um, and I would say explicitly with Dua Saleh, like her music feels very futuristic to me. Um and I think that that's really important right now to me because I feel like so many timelines and possibilities are like collapsing and opening up that uh that music is really resonating with me right now. Or like somehow that just feels like very relevant to what we've been experiencing as a culture in the year of our Lord 2025. Um, and I will say, like, for myself when I'm songwriting, especially for this this new record, that I really try to think about the lyrics and the fact that people are going to be repeating them in their mind. Um, and so like I always want to make sure that the lyrics are for the most part like uplifting lyrics or that there's a sense of soulfulness in them, even if they're sad, or even if the material is more challenging. Um, because I do know that there is an emotional impact there, and um, I never want to leave people feeling like they don't have like an escape hatch out of you know the difficult emotions that might be there, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_06:Love that. That's so cool. I I just um I'll put a lot of links in the show notes for people who are listening. There'll be music video links, there'll be uh dua sale, there'll be things for you to look at.
SPEAKER_04:Yay, yeah, thank you for that. Um, I think something else that's interesting too that I was thinking about is just that I think that music can like help you tap into the shadow self in a positive way. Um, like I feel, for example, that I'm drawn to techno and like really hard music with industrial, like crunchy, edgier sounds. Um, because it kind of helps me tap into that part of myself in a healthy way. And uh yeah, I feel like that could be another good way for people to utilize music in um in ritual space or like as another tool for safe self-exploration.
SPEAKER_08:Also, it's just it's fine to say, people of a certain age, like that electronic music hits us like no other generation will never feel the same.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, literally, I have so many friends whose lives were changed by the Mortal Kombat soundtrack. Uh, and I was definitely one of those people, like I had never heard electronic music before that point. And I just remember being like, what is this? Like, I love this.
SPEAKER_08:I am freaking out because randomly I thought of that theme song the other day, and I was like, Did I make this up? And I searched for it and listened, I just listened to the Mortal Kombat song, like maybe last week. So interesting. But yeah, I remember that was like such a moment, and I always go back to my college boyfriend introduced me to Daft Punk, which was life-changing. I mean, Daft Punk is everything to me. I'm an Aquarius Venus, so robots singing love songs, yes. Yes, please. That's exactly how I want my ballads to be uh conveyed to me. There's just something about electronic music that's just it just hits us, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And I really love that like each generation has its own soundtrack in a way. Like a few nights ago, I was hanging out with my partner and we were just listening to a bunch of songs from the 60s, and it was so interesting to me to kind of like map their similarity. Um, it felt like a lot of them were very organic in a different kind of way, and um, and there was so much energy in them. And then, like right now, I don't think it's an accident that electronic music is so popular because I feel like it's reflecting a world that's moving so much faster and has so much more to do with machines and like robots and AI and industrialization and movement. Um, but yeah, I just love nerding out about all the different ways that music is a container for humanity, really, and for our experience.
SPEAKER_06:I love that. It it is. I there's so much that music helps me move through. And I notice when I'm particularly distressed or overwhelmed, sometimes music can be too much for me, too. And I need silence so I can return to music. Um I mean, I think that people should spend a lot of time with your work and just see all of your influences and download you on SoundCloud and Spotify and all the places and just like travel with you because you're very good at creating those containers with music.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, it really it's really special and and I totally agree with you that you know silence is um really necessary and it's honestly like the the natural counterpart to sound. And I think that being a musician, over time I've learned um, you know, when there needs to be space within a song for the sound to breathe and and to have those pockets of silence. So cool.
SPEAKER_08:I wanted to go back to the timelines converging and and things happening and sort of you know, uh songs or music being evocative of the time that they exist in. And I feel that from like an outsider's perspective, that it feels like we could be entering a time in music where people want to take more risks. Um, and you know, I think like for me, the Rosalia album was like like this is it it really speaks to me like as a woman of faith, it speaks to me visually, aesthetically, like all of the risks that she's taking. Like, I would love for you to just get into the Rosalia of it all and like give us your thoughts because what is she? She's singing in 13 languages, like nobody's doing it like that. Like this is so. Do you think also besides the work itself, do you think this could be a marker of where people might be willing to take more risks?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great sign that it's been as successful as it's been because I think in some ways it means that people are ready to receive more experimental music or um or that they're willing to engage with pop music that's like definitely outside of the the norm. Um and it's such a beautiful record, you know. I think that it's um it's also because she had so much fame and success from her previous work that um it's cool that she decided to take this this big leap because in a way it validates for other artists that they can take risks, but then it also validates for other people in the music industry that that there is a desire for that uh as far as like the audience goes, which is really important, you know. It means that like the people, for example, like labels or whatever, like maybe more interested in taking risks with their artists as opposed to talking them out of that. I also love that it feels like a very uniquely feminist record in the sense that she's engaging a lot with um, you know, like women saints and that she read a lot of their work and she's like reading about their lives and engaging with their output, and um and I think it's pretty amazing because um, you know, she's centering these women that I think were often sidelined or not necessarily celebrated as much as their male counterparts. Uh, and I do think that it's really interesting that she's using them as this jumping off point to talk about her contemporary experience.
SPEAKER_06:I love the way mysticism is just so woven into the music, too. It just it's like, oh, is this for us? Feels like it was for us.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, definitely. I mean, especially considering how much uh women have historically been kept out of spiritual spaces, especially in you know, a patriarchal um Christian nationalist framework.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, and then when she's in the music video clomping around in those like spring 2003 Alexander McQueen rosary shoes, like like basically fainted, done away. Yeah. I'm like the references, they're too good.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, that's so amazing. Yeah, no, I haven't seen that video yet, but um, I really love Alexander McQueen. And he also, I mean, had such a sense of gravitas and um ritual in his garments too. Yeah, stunning.
SPEAKER_08:There's some there's some artists that are popular right now that could never, let's just say. She could never.
SPEAKER_04:Well, yeah, and I just, I mean, the concept of the record is so good. I really appreciate that she's exploring these ideas of you know what it means to be a person who has this dual nature of like, you know, wanting to connect with the divine and then also really wanting to enjoy the earthly experience. Um, and then yeah, like there's this mysticism aspect of the record, but then also it seems like a lot of the songs were written after like her engagement didn't go through, or I don't remember if that was that, or maybe she got a divorce.
SPEAKER_08:She decided not to go through with her engagement.
SPEAKER_04:So yeah, I think there's still like a very personal aspect that comes through in the record, even though she's not addressing it directly. But I think on certain songs like La Perla that comes through more.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, it's it's so interesting, like for me too. It's the decentering of a romantic relationship. Like, you know, people probably wanted her to come out with an album, talk about the you know, dissolving of this huge international relationship that people had eyes on. And she's like, uh, you know what? I think I'll actually. uh decenter that relationship and sing in 13 languages and like reconnect with my faith and all of these powerful women that have incredible stories. And to me, you know, I have a friend that sometimes will just text back and forth and we'll be like signs of the matriarchy question mark. And like it will be like like a video about that album, you know what I mean? Or like the Wicked Press tour or like, you know, other things that are happening. But yeah, I I liked that we're like people are so desperate to talk about that relationship being a reference here. But it's the least interesting reference that could be happening in this record for sure.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I agree. And I think it's also just a huge feat, you know, singing she's singing in like so many different languages and you don't even clock that um that they're changing because it's just so smooth overall. Um and that was definitely one of the things that impressed me about the record is how seamlessly all of the arrangements flowed into each other even though uh some of the songs were really really different from one another but it still felt like they belonged to this cohesive whole something else that I wanted to kind of note too just going back to this idea of like calling in energy or calling in assistance or guidance is that I feel like she used these female saints as kind of a touch point and it reminds me of Judy Chicago's artwork um The Dinner Party which uh you know where she kind of set the table for all of these famous women and goddesses and and there was just something about like tethering yourself to other sources of energy or greatness and I feel like that was in part what Rosalia was doing on this record by referencing um these these women saints.
SPEAKER_06:I love that yeah I was teaching a poetry class last night and uh on Romani literature I was so excited it's not featured very much I'm super nerdy about it. And I realized that I had interviewed two of the people only as I was teaching and I was just like wow I really um am trying on to be closer to what I see as like my my heroes and I felt just so excited that I even could teach about them or include them in the work I was doing and something about the proximity to them made me feel magical. Like it wasn't about a networking thing. It wasn't like oh and I know this poet but it was just like my my work listing of poetry is connected to these people who I think are so powerful and magical and that in and itself makes it magic.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah totally and I'm so glad that you said that because lineage in music and in art making is something that I really wanted to talk about because I see Rosalia as being part of a lineage of people who were inspired by Kate Bush. Personally you know a lot of my heroes like Bjork were inspired by the music that Kate Bush created. And so I think it's really cool to just like trace okay so it was like Kate Bush then it was Bork then it was Saint Vincent then it was Rosalia and you know I consider myself to be a part of that lineage too because her work just so um profoundly impacted what I thought was possible in music and just stylistically I think represented a sound that I found really intriguing. Beyond that you know I think I'm just really um fascinated by the idea that as a creator you too can birth a lineage of people that will be inspired by your style or your specific voice or your willingness to kind of push the envelope. Also I think that Jez like what you're talking about too is that like somehow when we start creating more like we start vibrating and we get closer and closer to like our source references right like our heroes and the people that we look up to and and that's often like a really positive sign that we're doing something meaningful.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah and these poets absolutely have influenced my work and there's also like the second or the secret third thing where it's like and there's magic we call that a a bonus Jonas.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah a bonus Jonas all right that's the name of my new song love that love that um can we talk a little bit more about your own personal mysticism and your work with the tarot?
SPEAKER_04:My gosh of course yeah I'm really just so grateful for tarot. I feel like a lot of my own personal mysticism is rooted in ancestral work and in like ancestor veneration. I'm Mexican American so I definitely feel very aligned with and inspired by our cultural uh mysticism. You know I do um certain practices every year like creating an altar for Dia de los muertos for example um and like really leaning on a lot of practices that that incorporate um touchstones from our culture. So for example like my grandmother on my dad's side was incredible with plants and she would always make me peppermint tea when I felt sick. She grew peppermint in her garden and um you know a lot of the times like I think spell work and and the craft quote unquote is as simple as that is just like using um family memory to like create a positive experience for yourself handing down certain kinds of traditions. I was raised Catholic like many other um Mexican Americans and I also feel like the the ritual and the colors and all of the artistic expression that was present in the church really informed really informed me and my creative practice and my songwriting. But yeah in terms of tarot I felt really drawn to tarot at a young age and I think when I was around 15 my mom got me a tarot deck from our local occult store in old Sacramento which was incredible and um and then when I was 21 my mom shared with me that my great grandmother had also been a card reader and that she used to be a healer in Chicago and people would come over to their house and um and that my grand my sorry my great grandmother would would work with them. So I know that there's like a history and a lineage of divination in my family and I definitely feel like the presence of um of my benevolent ancestors when I am working when I'm trying to um to work through things or um just like generally yeah. But yeah I really love tarot um it totally transformed the way that I see the world and I think that it's an incredible resource both for you know my spiritual practice but then also for my creative practice because it really just is so archetypal and so beautiful. Ah so beautiful and people can book readings with you too right yeah they certainly can I really really enjoy reading for people and I try to keep it up as much as possible. And yeah Jazz you've been so influential on my journey for reading with tarot um I really really can't thank you enough for like bearing with me while I gave you readings where I definitely was not sure what I was talking about. You were always talented it was a pleasure pleasure to read Libya. Oh thank you. Yeah I did read professionally in LA for a while and that was really awesome. I felt like I learned a lot by reading for uh you know like a higher volume of people than I had previously um so that was really cool.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah I think it can be so nice too like for people who are listening if it can be nice sometimes to seek out readers who are in the world that you want to be in as well just because you have so much experience in it. And so if you're also a creative person a musician a singer and you want to get a reading from Dia, especially if you're thinking about how you want to grow as an artist, highly recommend. And I mean I talk to you about things that are not those things and I always gain tremendous insight from you. We we read about all kinds of things together but I I have a lot of writers come to me you know it's it's like fun. I I I really like doing that.
SPEAKER_04:It's really funny that you say that because now I'm realizing that a lot of the walk-ins that I had were in fact creative people specifically musicians. And a lot of them did ask me questions about like whether or not to move forward with a project or like a collaborator that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah you just magnetize people too I magnetize writers and artists and performers too totally that energetic ripple we're just you know putting it out there.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah absolutely and so as a musician who also works with tarot are there any song associations that you think of for certain cards?
SPEAKER_08:I love this game.
SPEAKER_06:I'm so excited just made up this game and it's a good game ooh that's tough.
SPEAKER_04:I mean I think right away for me it's easy to see musicians themselves embodying certain tarot archetypes like for example I think Kaliucci's always feels like the Empress to me or uh I think Prince for example had like a very strong magician energy to him but for a song I think I'd have to think about that one. I'm giving one of my favorite ones six of Wands is Return of the Mac by Mark Morrison oh my god I love that you fucking first of all that's incredible that's incredible words and strong showing tell me that song is not playing when he's riding on the horse I love this um return of the Mac is one of my favorite songs of all time so much so that the last time I visited my besties in Providence they like literally queued it up for me for my arrival so that it would play when I walked in God I love that it's such a joyous victorious song.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah damn that's a good one when I played this song with Jess last um you gave me a few tarot cards as suggestions which I think can be a nice prompt um do you have a Three of Swords uh song that you listen to or you're just like oh I gotta get deeper into the pain I gotta look in here oh man um I mean I don't I think actually the first the song that comes to mind is like feeling very very emotional for me in the same way that like a three of swords might be like very um tender is this song called Boliviana by Ibrahim Ferrer who was in the Buena Vista Social Club and it's just such a beautiful song he's like talking about this woman that he loves and he wants to marry her and um and take take her back to to Cuba so he can show her the beautiful beaches and it's just so earnest like literally every time that I hear it I I really it just touches such a deep it just touches such a tender part of my heart I and I feel like I mean I'm literally getting choked up talking about it because you just feel so much or I feel so much beauty in the song and um and so much joy but then it's also like it feels it feels scary in the way that like it's so true and so touching and so earnest that it can also be painful if that makes any sense like to love someone so much that um that it just opens you up yes I love that yeah that's a perfect three of swords because I think the three of swords is also like there's healing and there's beauty and there's community but it's also like the agonies.
SPEAKER_04:Yes yes exactly like it just totally gets right in there for me. Oh it's my card baby I love it the agony and the ecstasy I'm Catholic coded literally yeah I mean I've already decided that if I ever get married I really want that song to play because it just is it's so beautiful.
SPEAKER_08:Jess you have to say a song now you have to say a card and song combo.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah um oh uh queen of swords is uh Medusa by Uzi Freya and Carbon Killer because it's just like it's a bad bitch anthem but it's also just like I will cut off your head I am Medusa and I'm gonna rip you apart my favorite song right now.
SPEAKER_08:I I keep listening to it and it's very Queen of Wait what did what did Alexa send you the other day?
SPEAKER_06:What was your ghost song Alexa sent me so every once in a while Alexa will on her of her own volition play a song no one's talked to her no one's asked and she uh and I that's my shuffle mancy too where it's like spirit is working through and Spirit sent me Poppin' by Rico Nasty which also felt very angelic and and right yeah for me I feel like I've held on to a lot of songs from like newer female rappers like Doce or like Megan the Stallion um because I feel like they really showcase like this fun like bold confident Queen of Wands energy that's very authentic and and that's a space that I've really been wanting to occupy as well. I love Queen of Wands energy. That's that's where I like to be it's that fire.
SPEAKER_04:We love that what dream projects are you calling in for 2026 and this is also a good place to tell us a little more about your upcoming um big album too yeah well I would say you know from a songwriter standpoint I would really love to work on more bespoke music for clients especially for film and as far as the new record goes I think that both my cousin and I are thinking about these songs as an opportunity to call in a lot of our respective community have a lot of different players you know lend their talents to the record and make it really big and make it about um you know how far we've come in a lot of ways. As far as kind of calling in uh the big dream is concerned I would really love just to be able to support having all of those collaborators join us um to flesh out the record and really to flesh out the music videos that I want to showcase the storytelling around the songs. Beyond that I know that like I really haven't had a chance to tour the Dia Luna experience globally but I really really want to and I want to do it in a way that is also more experimental you know like to present the music that's um maybe more like a traveling art show and less like a traditional pop tour.
SPEAKER_06:Yes I would love to see that I mean people really need to watch your music videos because they are so artistic and beautiful and um I could really see you doing a lot around performance in going deeper into the performative aspect of that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah I'd love to experiment more with different mediums you know like holographs or augmented reality or incorporating dance or performance art. But I think just overall thinking of it more as an opportunity to craft like a specific art show that's maybe even dependent on the spaces that we're going into uh like maybe having components of the show that that change uh and are site specific but I think just overall like presenting the music publicly in a way that is multimedia and advanced and exciting for people to to both witness and be a part of that sounds so fun.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah that's really cool. I love that and I think that like Jeff said like your videos are just so evocative and beautiful and I I even when we were talking to Caitlyn Foise in a different episode it's this idea of creating an environment and asking people to come in and like really be part of your world and I think that that's so special and needed if you're a fan or if you're a listener. It's like you want to be in community with those who feel that way but also like be in that like magical mystical world. So it's beautiful.
SPEAKER_04:What other tools and practices besides tarot might you use for your own personal wellness or spirituality ooh I think that um that would have to be dance dance is a huge part of my life and definitely one of my main spiritual practices um it's my it's my container and my space to process a lot emotionally and um and it's also pretty interesting like there was a a study that came out fairly recently that compared different forms of exercise and uh the results showed that out of all the exercises that you could possibly do that dance is the only form that has the same impact as taking uh an SSRI. So uh you know just from a mental wellness standpoint it's really really had a positive positive effect on my mental health.
SPEAKER_06:Wow I didn't know that and that checks up for me.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah and also you know again dance has such uh an inherent relationship to music and vice versa so I feel like I've become a better musician because I dance and I'm a better dancer because I play music. I think also because I'm such a mentally oriented person and also because I have so much so many air placements in my Astrological chart. Triple Gemini, which I love. Oh my god, yes. Thank you. I'm a triple Gemini. I have a Gemini stellium. But you know, also just broadly, like I'm an overthinker. I can definitely get into a depression and fixate on my anxiety very easily. So for me, getting into my body and also being a part of a community of people who are just happy and goofy, and being able to express myself nonverbally and through my body is extremely, extremely important.
SPEAKER_08:We know swords, baby.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, dance keeps me grounded. And you know, in the past few years of dancing, I've realized that I really do process deeply buried emotions or memories that have just been stored in my body, and that the only reason that I'm able to do that is because I'm literally moving through it. So I think it's a very, very practical spiritual medicine, and it's made a huge impact on my life. The other practice that I lean on really heavily is um a Buddhist practice that I was taught by a witchy teacher of mine named Carolyn Elliott. Um, it's a loving-kindness meditation where you I'm gonna just go through the whole thing here because I think it's worth it and um and hopefully it will inspire people to to try it. But basically, you know, you would imagine yourself in your mind's eye and you know, wish yourself happiness. Like I would say, Andrea, may you be happy and I see myself and try to really feel myself being happy. Um, you know, I would say to myself, may you be free from shame and suffering. And I would again like visualize situations where I would normally feel shame or where I would normally suffer and imagine myself having a different reaction to those things. Um may your good fortune increase. That one's pretty self-explanatory. You know, I would see myself um getting a song on the radio or something like that, and then may you be free from attachment and aversion. And same thing, I would imagine a situation or situations where I might feel attachment or aversion, and I would imagine myself reacting in the opposite way. And so once you go through this process imagining yourself in all of these scenarios, then you repeat that first with someone who you would consider to be a friend, then with somebody that you don't know, like you know, your barista or someone in your neighborhood, and then lastly with someone that you um dislike or that you find irritating or that you know annoys you in some way. And this practice is really incredible because it's not really like a fully conscious thing. I think it really helps to kind of align your subconscious with your conscious uh well-wishes. But I just have seen in my own practice what doing that meditation every day for a month does, and it just totally shifts my perspective to be one that can tolerate and can hold so much more um so much more duality. And and I and it just it's really also incredible to see the way that people react to me differently when I'm doing this, um, even though they're not necessarily even aware that I am doing that.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, I mean, like for me, those kind of meditations open you to a sense of neutrality that I think we're lacking, especially in these times when we're being forced into extreme reactions. Like we have to keep opening up to that, you know, when you were like talking about the barista, like I do these sorts of meditations and I think about these people and you know, like neither good nor bad that you have react your relations with, and it's like feeling into that that equilibrium kind of feeling because we we need that. The universe needs those energetic race right now.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and I think, you know, I mean, again, because I do believe that we're in a space where there are a lot of potential timelines available to us, um, that as like individuals and also as a collective, we really need to be focusing on the best possible outcome that we can create for ourselves and also for our communities, right? Because if we don't get it together, we're the only ones who are gonna suffer. We have to really come into alignment as a species, um, because otherwise we're just not gonna be here. We're not gonna make it.
SPEAKER_08:And, you know, fundamentally with magic too, I like to think that if you truly believe in magic, if you truly believe in manifestation, then there are no limits on what could potentially exist. And so you should always wish for abundance for all people. Wanting to hoard it all for yourself suggests that there is a limitation and therefore it's not magical. So I do, I do agree. Let this podcast go out in the world and let us all have like the most positive timelines that we're reaching for at all times for all people.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, please. Such a beautiful meditation. Really love it. Yeah, it's really lovely.
SPEAKER_06:How can people support your work? Where's the best place to find you? Download your music, follow you, and any other way you could use support.
SPEAKER_04:Totally. Well, people can find my music online. Um, I have a website which is www.dealunamusic.com. I'm on Instagram at dialunamusic. Um my preference is for people to download my music from Bandcamp or to stream it on Kobas. Uh, but again, it is available on on most channels digitally. Um as far as songwriting goes, I again like totally relish the um opportunity to write bespoke songs for you. So if you are another creative, if you're a filmmaker, if you're an editor, um, if you are making another podcast, if there are things that you want to do where music would be helpful, feel free to reach out to me. And um, and I'm also available for tarot readings. Like I love reading tarot. And if you want some guidance on how to move forward in your creative practice, or if you have any other questions, you're always welcome to reach out uh to me about tarot. But yeah, I mean I do all kinds of different things, so I sometimes I feel a bit like woo all over the place. But uh, but I am a Gemini after all, so there's that. You're a multi-harp.
SPEAKER_07:You're in good company here, my friend. Yay, I love that.
SPEAKER_06:Well, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for editing our podcast and writing the most perfect song. Uh, we so appreciate you. We're so happy that you're here.
SPEAKER_04:Yay! Thank you so much. I am really so happy that you all asked me to be a part of this amazing project. And I really believe in the work that you're doing here, and I hope that this podcast also gets shared broadly and widely and that it changes people's lives for the better.
SPEAKER_07:Yes, put some magic on that. There are no limitations to abundance, right?
SPEAKER_06:Now that uh now that you said it, I've you know I've been forgetting to mention we do have a link in our show notes for sponsoring the podcast. So if anyone is listening and they want to help us make this, um, because we're doing it all out of our own pockets because we uh love what we do, um, yeah, you can click that link uh or you can just reach out if you prefer not to use that link for some reason and you want to Venmo. Um I've got a Venmo uh link in my bio on Instagram. You can get money to us anyway, and it'll it'll go to a good cause.
SPEAKER_08:And I I do definitely want to end this this podcast by saying I can't recommend having a theme song enough. I love that we have the theme song, and I hope that as I'm saying this, that ending music, those ending credits are starting to come in. I can imagine in my mind's eye. So thank you, Dia. We love you. Thank you. Love you too.
SPEAKER_00:Come beat me in the material word. That's why that's the cow, let's take a look. Define in the item material word. If material work, come beat me in the ick material world. Your mind, your body, and spirit, divided in the if material world. The it material world. The if material world.
SPEAKER_08:Immaterial world is hosted by Jessica Richards and Jasmina Montiel. Music by Dia Luna. Artwork by Lane Friend. Follow us at Immaterial World Pod on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Visit our website at www.immaterial dashworld.com. Or send us an email at Immaterial World Pod at gmail.com.
SPEAKER_05:Welcome to the immaterial world.