MOTHER OF MYSTICS with Kaitlyn Graña

Kaitlyn Graña is a 4th generation Espiritista, trance medium, exorcist, and occult educator. They are a facilitator of radical, transformational, and deeply rooted spiritual awakenings through the tradition of Espiritismo Cruzado.
In this episode, Kaitlyn shares their passion for connecting with the ancestors to heal the past, present, and future; what it means to act ethically as a spiritual practitioner (and what their own code of ethics entails); working with big “mom” energy; and so much more.

Listeners can receive 10% off a booking with Kaitlyn by using code IMMATERIAL at checkout on www.motherofmystics.com.

For more about Kaitlyn visit:
www.motherofmystics.com
Instagram + Threads: @kaitlyn.grana

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Hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele

For bookings and for more about Jessica visit: www.the12th.house and Instagram: @jessicaxrich 

For bookings and for more about Jezmina visit: www.jezminavonthiele.com and Instagram: @jezmina.vonthiele

Music and editing by DIA LUNA

Instagram: @dialunamusic

Artwork by Lane Friend 

Instagram: @friendlane

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Welcome to Material World, a dedicated and transparent space to recenter how we explore glamour, magic, culture, and everything else we love together. Caitlin Crana is a fourth generation espiratista, trans medium, exorcist, and a cult educator. They are a facilitator of radical, transformational, and deeply rooted spiritual awakenings through the tradition of Espiritismo Cruzado.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Listeners can receive 10% off a booking with Caitlin by using code IMMATERIAL at checkout on motherofmystics.com.

Caitlin’s Lineage And Early Call

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Thrilled to have with us Caitlin Grana, the mother of mystics. Caitlin, welcome. Thank you so much for having us today. Yes, yes. We're so happy to have you. So tell us a little bit about your journey to where you are today and how you became the mother of mystics.

Crisis, The Mother, And Returning Home

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Well, I am very fortunate to have grown up within an ancestral tradition, Espiritismo. And because of that, engaging with spirits, speaking to the dead, and having close connection with ancestry and personal history has always been very much a part of my life. I also grew up in the Catholic Church at the same time. So there was this weird dichotomy of like, yes, we have all this, but it's absolutely a secret, and you cannot talk to anyone about it ever, or bad things will happen, which kind of did in high school, but that's maybe a story for later. But I grew up within this tradition. And, you know, I also grew up within the 90s new age silver raven wolf revival of witchcraft. And so I had this kind of combination of like, oh, well, this thing that I grew up in is potentially bad and harmful because we can't talk about it. But then this other thing I see on an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So this must be okay. And I should investigate this further. Um, so I have this weird like, what's okay, what's not, what's magical, what's not thing that I went through in, you know, middle school and high school. And I, you know, I always had a deck of tarot cards on hand and would give readings to myself or a few friends, but it wasn't until I was, I was still working in the apparel industry and I had two kids and a whole, you know, husband. And I was like, why do I still feel unfulfilled? Like I'm I'm sober, I'm in a good relationship, I like love being a mom, but like there's something wrong, there's something missing. And I remember standing on the corner of 7th and Broadway in the apparel district, just like fully breaking down in tears. And I heard a voice say, like, ask the mother. Ask the mother. And I went to my dad and talked to him about it, and he reminded me that our family's patron saint is Maria Carida del Cobre, which is a very popular saint in Cuba. And he was like, She's the mom. And he reminded me, like, this thing has always been a part of you and always will be a part of you. And he also reminded me that um Delia, one of my first mentors, when she was growing up, she went through this period where she was rebelling against dispiritismo and mediumship, and life got really hard for her. And he was like, all this stuff that you've been through in middle school and high school and after high school, that's all happened when you were going against this thing that is a part of who you are. And after that, I reconnected with Delia's daughter, who became another mentor of mine, Thenya. And I finally put up my first personal bovida and really leaned into my ancestral spiritual practice of ispirithismo. And from that moment on, everything changed and continues to change for the better. And life is still challenging for all of us, of course. But in re-accepting Ispiritismo into my life, reaccepting these practices and these spirits and spirits who are talking to me, um, navigating through life's challenges comes with greater certainty and less fear. And tarot readings kind of naturally evolved into mediumship. I didn't really have a choice. I just kind of got it initiated by experience, felt like they threw me into the deep end of the pool. And they're like, no, we're talking during your readings. You thought it was going to be this, but it's actually going to be that. And I just stopped fighting and let it happen. And the more I embraced it, the more community found me and clients found me. And things just very naturally continue to evolve and grow. So this little side hustle that I was doing for other clothing reps in between shows at the New Model or in New York at the Javit Center really turned into my life's work and continues to be that now.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Oh, we know each other, I'm sure, from uh a fashion lifetime ago. Um, I have so much to say to you already. I want to get into the mediumship in a second, but I am someone that grew up in the Catholic Church. And as much as I loved uh my faith and going through all of the practices, it never really connected for me. And so I left for a while and then felt so disconnected spiritually to who I was. And it came back to me when I went to Mexico City in 2019 and I went to Guadalupe's Cathedral, and I, you know, was had been out of the church for such a long time, and I saw the shroud and I prayed and I was asking for a very specific miracle. Like, how the fuck do I get out of my marriage? was actually the question that I had. And my miracle came soon after, and that's how I found out that she was my patron saint. But I just wanted to touch upon that to that that I am so enamored to hear people speak about how they marry this idea of Catholicism and ritual and their own spiritual practices. So I'm really excited to unpack that. But let's start about your uh mediumship and how you came into that and what it's like for you. Um, even if you want to tell us some stories, because we love we love a little story time.

Possession, Cleansings, And Exorcisms

SPEAKER_00 7:52

So mediumship happened, you know, there are all these stories of things that I don't remember. I just remember hearing the stories about them of when I was a child, and I would tell my mom, like, oh, I my mom's favorite story to tell is I was three years old, and we used to live with my grandmother in West Covina, and she had this big garden with a giant apricot tree. And my mom said I was playing outside doing whatever I do, and I ran in the house and was like, Mammy, that's afraid. I was telling her, like, I see Jesus under the apricot tree. And she was like, and so it begins. And um, I was really, really, I can't emphasize this enough, so lucky, so blessed to grow up in an environment where when I told my parents I was seeing things and talking to spirits, that they were like, Yeah, sounds correct, instead of trying to make me feel like, whoa, you know, this is just uh a kid making things up. And even if it is, like, let kids be imaginative. But um it started really early, and I went through plenty of really challenging experiences uh in middle school and high school. And because of that, I was very much into drugs and alcohol and really trying to like turn it off because I didn't want to think about the things that were hurting me. And in doing so, I also didn't want to hear the voices that were telling me how to fix it. I just didn't want to deal with anything that was better for me. And I remember being at it was a really long night, and uh it felt like one of those nights where you keep blinking and you're somewhere else. And I blinked and we were in a suite at the Biltmore. Somebody was having a party in one of the suites at the Biltmore downtown, and it's a it's a horse historical hotel. And um, I was talking to this girl, we're just chit-chatting, and my friend looks at me and is like, Who are you talking to? And I was like, This girl, and he was like, There's no girl there, and he's like, Well, this bitch is on drugs, like it's fine, it's not a big deal, but I get which I was, but I kept seeing her, and I would see her everywhere, like she followed me, and I remember being on a rooftop at a friend's apartment, and my friend went back inside to like get something, and she was back, and um she invited me just a little girl, she invited me to follow her off the edge, and it was in that moment that I realized like, oh, like she's trying to help me the only way she knows how. And it was also in that moment that I realized, oh, I don't actually want to die, I I want to be here, and like that, even though all of my actions are showing this spirit that that's what I want, that I I don't think that's what I actually want. And after that, it took a few years for me to get sober, and after becoming sober and you know, getting back into readings and back into my routines and disciplines, uh, the voices just kept coming, except instead of voices telling me to have another drink, it's fine. You know what? You are awful. You know what, you did deserve those things. You know what, you should hang out with these people who encourage this behavior. You are the one who should keep encouraging this behavior. There were voices who were telling me, life can be different, life can be better, you can be comfortable with yourself and with your environment and with the people around you. And the more I listened, the easier. I don't know if life gets easier, but the less scary life became. And it got to a point where like I couldn't not say those things. Like, I couldn't not tell my clients what their grandmother was saying about them quitting smoking. Like I couldn't not tell my client that like I can taste your aunt's favorite gin in my mouth right now and describing it to them. And seeing that uh nobody was going to burn me at the stake for sharing this information, despite what history tends to prove to be the case, was really liberating for me. And I'm like, oh, so this is good, actually. This is good helpful magic. Uh and from there, you know, it started as hearing things, and then it became transmediumship. Really, again, it organically, it just happened where the spirits enter my body and use my voice, use my hands, use my facial expressions to speak for themselves rather than me being the one who's translating. And in you know, in Ispirithismo and other African diasporic traditions, we call this mounting or possession, and it's another thing that's not just normal, but is is beautiful, it's a sacred experience. So I've felt really blessed to be able to engage with spirits in this way and to be of service to others by engaging with spirits in this way. Um I think you know, one of the most common ways it tends to happen when I'm working with a client is I I have a main guide, Mikeia Purencipal, and her name is Felicita Buenavide, and she was actually an Espiritista that my grandfather knew in Cuba when he was younger. And um, he inherited her as a guide, and then I inherited her as a guide. And when I'm working with a client who's in need of a cleansing, a limpia, or um an energetic clearing or an entity removal, she's the one that comes into my vessel and she's just so tender and affectionate and gentle and firm. Firm when she tells people, like, no, you are a good person. Bad things have happened, but you are a good person. Like, just the way she speaks and does her work is just so inspiring to me. She really teaches me how to be a better mother and a better companion and a better friend. Um, I think the most like dazzling way the spirits tend to move through me in trance is when I'm performing exorcisms. I have a main guide who tends to oversee these types of workings. And it's I I need to stop saying it's weird. It's weird W-Y-R-D. Um, because like my voice changes, my face changes, and I usually don't remember it. But at the end, I open my eyes, and whoever I'm working with is like, that was crazy. But I oh, here's a good story. So I was doing an exorcism for one of my longtime clients, and this spirit that I work with is is specifically interested in supporting women, femmes, non-men who have been harmed by men and the systems created by man. And he takes it very personally, his work. And the sometimes we elevate a spirit that's attached in an exorcism and they move on to the next life, but every once in a while that's not enough. And in this particular exorcism, I could feel my jaw cracking as my guide was unhinging his jaw, and he swallowed the spirit up, and I started to gag, and then I grabbed the cases that I had set out for my guide and like drank it, and then I could feel this like lump go down my throat. And before I closed the exorcism rights, my guide reached into my mouth and I could feel like he was pulling out a tooth, but all my teeth are still here. And he put it in my client's hand and said, This is for your protection. And a few weeks later, she texted me and was like, Caitlin, I'm growing a new molar. At 30 years old, you're growing a new molar? Like it was just so wild. It's such a cool affirmation of like, no, this is actually happening. This is real in its own special metaphysic metaphysical way.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

I mean, we're sitting here in silence listening to you on mute because we're like, it just it that is wild. And what a beautiful symbol of protection, like literally to be growing a part in your body that's going to keep you protected from that kind of harm. Wow, that's powerful. That is really powerful work.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Oh, it's beautiful. And I'm so glad, you know, going back to what you were saying about how you were lucky that you were raised within a tradition where you were talking to spirits, your family's like, yep, expected. Um, and I can relate to that, and I feel like it was one of the best things for me. And um just for people who are not familiar, what is a spiritismo exactly? And could you share a little more about what your cultural and spiritual lineage is and how that can be helpful for practitioners, whether or not they actually know who their people are. Because sometimes, you know, we might not.

Espiritismo Cruzado Explained

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Yes, this is my favorite thing to talk about. Um, so there are many different sects of ispiritismo found throughout the Caribbean and now Latin America. But the tradition that I come from is called Isprididismo Cruzal or Crossed Spiritism. And it was birthed in Cuba from a crossing of European Kardecan spiritism, which came after the spiritualism movement that happened just before the turn of the century, uh, folk Catholicism, indigenous Taino practices, and indigenous West African practices, specifically of the Bantu and Yoruba people. And this tradition came together on this tiny island because of the Middle Passage. It is a spirituality that is birthed from the resistance and resilience of colonized people. And it was a way to mesh together what was immediately at hand, which was Catholicism because of enslavement and colonialism and Kardecan spiritism, which became very popular in Cuba because during Cuba's revolution from Spain, the Catholic Church sided with Spain over the colonists. So the colonists were kind of rejecting Catholicism and weren't enforcing it so much as in other areas of the world, right? And they were like, oh, spiritism, it's becoming very popular in Europe, it's all the rage, so we're gonna do that here now. And it trickles down. And the frameworks, this is what I think is so interesting. The frameworks of Kardecan spiritism, you can see those same frameworks reflected in much older ancestral traditions all around the world. And uh spiritismo is the belief, at its simplest, that we are in constant communion with the dead. We are in constant communion with the spirit realm, and we influence one another for better or for worse. And just as the spirits have the ability to have helpful or harmful influence on our lives, we also have the ability to have helpful or harmful influence on theirs. It is a reciprocal relationship, a cycle that never ends. And it really emphasizes the importance of having good character, being good to yourself, being good to your community, and recognizing that part of your community is also your lineage and gives you the tools and the protocol to help not only yourself be a good human, but also to reconcile the harms caused by those who came before you so that you don't continue to perpetuate those problems. And so that those who come after you have it that much easier and get to, you know, really embrace their destiny with less resistance because of the work you're doing in the present for yourself and for the past. And it's this really yummy cosmology where we recognize that we are responsible to one another. We are responsible for our actions, we are responsible for the care of ourselves, the people around us, our planet, our environment. And that it's not every person for themselves. How can it be when we see all of the ways kind of like a what's that movie? Everything everywhere all at once. I love that scene where all the stars are connecting to one another. Yes. Yes, that's exactly what it's like. All of our choices affect each other, whether you are in a physical body or not. And Ispidithismo really gives you the tools and the guidelines to like make it good, to make it aligned, um, to make it helpful, and to make life a little better for everyone. And I think that's so neat.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

That's so beautiful. And I work with clients and with friends with through astrology and uh especially with their chiron, whatever specific wound that they're bringing in that needs to be healed. There's some energies now that I'm working with people where it feels like there's deep ancestral karma that's come to be healed. And Uranus is really, really working on that. And one bit of advice that I like to give is that since it's ancestral, you get to ask those ancestors to help you move through that karma during this time and help you work through those wounds. You don't have to do it alone, and it's actually part of the cleansing and the healing is to ask for that help and to have the community of spirits supporting that. Um, but not everyone is super familiar with their spirit guides or their ancestors or the energies that they're working with. So if someone's new and starting to approach exploring that, how would you recommend that they do that to find out who they should be best working with?

Meeting Guides And Elevating Ancestors

SPEAKER_00 23:08

I love this question because this is what so much of my like introductory interactions with clients revolves around. So many of us who are in diaspora have we don't know who our people are. We don't have the luxury of paper trails or even of oral tradition. Some of us are very fortunate too, but not everybody does. And that is what I think is so magical about Ispiridismo is that it really opens the door to discovering who your people are so that you can realize, like, oh, I belong to someone. I belong to somewhere. And the process that we go through in the tradition that I was raised in is you start with spirit guide introductions. We call them your spiritual court. And your spiritual court helps you build relationships with spirits who are assigned to help you do well and be well. And so you can get familiar with how those types of spirits engage with you and speak to you, which helps with your discernment because we all have an assortment of ancestors, and some are super awesome and some are not so awesome, but most of them exist in the in-between space, and that's totally cool. We're all human beings, mostly like anyway. Um after we do spirit court introductions, then we usually begin the process of introducing one or two helpful ancestors who can I like to call them the bridge ancestor. They're the ones that help connect you to others and others and others who are waiting. The other thing that I usually recommend clients do is a rite, kind of like a rite of passage. It's called ancestor elevation. And it it's it's not unique to a spittitismo. You can also find it in IFA, you can find it in a variety in Mesoamerican traditions. Um, but ancestral elevation rites are it's a ceremony where you offer prayers of support and transformation and healing to your unwell ancestors, the ones who are still really hanging on to suffering, to harm, whether it's harm caused or harm experienced, uh, you are offering them support in the afterlife so that they are not offering their voice to you from a place of harm. And I find that our ancestors who are still kind of caught up in the struggle, they can sometimes be the loudest ones because they're the closest to their earthly experiences. And then sometimes we got caught up and we're like, oh my God, I'm talking to my ancestors, but it's really not helping, or they're really judgmental. And it's like, well, yeah, because they've got their shit to deal with too. And elevation rights help move those ancestors along into hands of other spirits who can help them process their own shit so that the door is open to ancestors who are well and ready to assist you to come through and be more supportive, right? Because sometimes we have those relatives who really mean well, but every time they help you, it's a little bit worse. And then we're in that weird, like, I feel guilty because I don't like the help that you're giving me, but it's also nice that you're helping me and I don't want you to feel bad. And I think we can sometimes get stuck in that relationship with our dead, too. And so all of these protocols and ceremonies exist to help us navigate through the complexities of family relationships and family dynamics. Uh, if you are just getting started with ancestor veneration, I always recommend, you know, if you have space for an altar, cool. If you don't, it's okay. Um, put it in a shoe box, put it in an altoid box, hide it under your bed if you need to. But I always recommend starting with elevation first so that you are opening the road to well ancestors to come through and speak to you and offering aid to the unwell ancestors so they're not the ones influencing your actions.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

That was so personally helpful for me too, because I have been becoming more empowered in being vocal when I'm having an unhelpful thought, let's say. And I do think, and Jez and I talk about this all the time, but as someone with obsessive-compulsive disorder, there's definitely voices that come through that like feed that part of my brain that wants to hear the most twisted, maniacal thought. And so I have been better about speaking up and being like, is this the most benevolent answer that you have for me? And it's like, boop, sometimes in the moment they like disappear. So thank you for co-signing on that.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Yeah, I think that's going to be really helpful for people to hear. I've definitely found I a lot of my mom's family has passed away in the last few years. And I feel like my grandmother came into the afterlife having processed a lot of things really quickly. And I feel like my other beloved relatives are still like working on it. It's very clear in the types of communications I get. And I, you know, we're not alone in that. Um, speaking of, you know, what feels harmful, what feels helpful, I just adore your code of ethics on motherofmystics.com. I love that you put it out there for um, you know, potential clients and for other spiritual practitioners who might be inspired by having their own code of ethics. Can you share a little bit about what your ethics are as a reader, um, what you would love to see more of in spiritual spaces, anything else you'd like to share, you know, as advice to a practitioner or a client?

Ethics, Accountability, And Avoiding Culty Traps

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yes. My ethics of practice being a living document that exists on the internet was really something that came out of necessity. The more I started working with people and the deeper this work became, I was like, okay, I need to make it clear what I am capable of, what people can expect from me, and what they shouldn't expect from me. And I really think the the early versions of this document, this framework came from something that I think a lot of spiritual practitioners experience early on in their careers is being taken advantage of. Uh this type of work can not be taken very seriously, or people expect more from us. I think sometimes people can expect spiritual practitioners to fix everything for them when really we provide the space and the tools and the access and the encouragement for you to fix it yourself. There are certain practitioners who do really fucking cool things and can fix certain things. I can remove an entity from your home or from your body, but I can't turn your life around. Like you've got to do it. And I know it's annoying, but I know that you can too. And so the the early additions of my ethics of practice really came from me wanting to set some standards of expectation, standards, even like standards of conduct. Like, don't talk to me this way. Don't talk to yourself that way, don't talk to me this way, don't talk to my colleagues that way. Because I think it, you know, this is historically feminine work, and we all know how a white supremacist world, a patriarchal world, treats historically feminine work. Later, uh, why did I do it? I did it because I know who I am as a practitioner. I know what's important to me, I know what I stand for. And I think that as a consumer myself, I want to know that about the people I'm working with. And how can I expect something from others if I am unwilling or unable to fulfill those expectations myself? And slowly this page just kind of came together, um, experience by experience, each one of those becoming another bullet point. And really, it's become something that people seek me out for now, and something that I help other spiritual practitioners create themselves. Um, I'm not interested in people embodying the same ethics of practice as me. I'm interested in them figuring out what they believe and what they stand on and putting that into words to share it with others. And I don't even know how this happened, but somehow I kind of became this person people seek out so that they too can figure out how to become an ethical practitioner themselves. And we live in this world of instant gratification, of two-day delivery and streaming movies. And I think becoming an ethical practitioner is a lifelong process, and um it's a slow one. And I I really want to help folks that are the real thing be able to communicate that with potential clients because we do see so many, you know, TikTok spiritualists these days. And really, I mean, we also have like old school cults, like we have uh what's her name, Teal Swan and all of the other ones out there peddling like, here's what you can have overnight if you just do these things and watch these videos. And I just don't think that's true. And so my ethics of practice really became a way for me to communicate, like, this is how it works here. And if you like that, cool. Maybe we can work together. And if it doesn't do it for you, that's also cool. There is someone else out there for you. And I just think it's important to communicate who you are accountable to as well. Um, I cannot maintain, in my opinion, an ethics of practice if I'm only accountable to myself. Who's gonna check me? And so that's why I also think it's important to talk about my lineage, my teachers, my mentors, my elders, my colleagues, all of the people that help keep me in check so that I can maintain these ethics as something that I as something that I exercise rather than just words on a screen. I feel like I said a lot. I don't know if that made sense.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

It does. No, I love that. And I I think it can help people feel safe seeking spiritual services to see, even see that there is a code of conduct and that there are really clear values because, like you said, sometimes people get taken advantage of. There's there's this whole culty side of the occult that can be quite scary. And um, being of service in community is such a big um tenet of yours. And I I think that's what spiritual work really is at its core, is that you're you're being of service, and we should be clear about what that means and what it doesn't mean.

Service, Queerness, And Centering The Marginalized

SPEAKER_03 34:32

Uh and I think alignment also includes, like you were saying, people that want to do the work. You're not really going to be in service to clients that are hoping that the the answer shows up at their doorstep the next day. Like when you're opening that door, what you're really opening is true change and true transformation and the steps that it takes to bring in what kind of guidance they're looking for and hold it and live in alignment with it. Um, can you tell us a little bit more about your mission of service, what your clients look like, who you serve, and why, especially the groups that you platform, like the queer community and uplifting the most marginalized of groups that that need your help? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Uh well, I am extremely queer and always have been. Uh always have been. Congratulations. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. Um and uh it definitely makes for an interesting dynamic growing up, going to Catholic school where they're like, every day you're probably gonna go to hell for all these things that are cool to you. And I'm like, great, I'm getting it in all directions. Um, so I think, and and you know what's wild is that in working with spirits like the blessed mother in her many different forms, even working with like true code Jesus Christ, not like white Jesus, like the real the guy, the guy, uh, they don't give a fuck about that stuff. Um, they're like, actually, it's kind of cool. Wow, we love you because you're you. Also, you have queer ancestors, you have trans ancestors. Some of them were out in the open living their lives that way. Some of them also had to protect themselves too. And I think that's so neat. And so, as this is another thing that just kind of happened. I think because I am a mom, I speak to people in a maternal and nurturing way. That's just who I am as a as a human being. And my clients started calling me, like, like mom. Okay, mom, thanks, mom, which I love personally. Like, I love mom. Um, and that's how things kind of evolved into mother of mystics. I'm like, yeah, I'll be, I'll be your mom, I'll be your mom. And I think being a good mom isn't about doing things for you, it's about preparing you for the world and showing you that you are capable. Like the bird mom can't flap their baby's wings for them, but they can do their best to set them up for success. But at the end of the day, you've got to jump from that nest and show yourself that you can fly, or that if you fall, that you can try again, and that I'll be here tweeting and cheering you on. Um, and that's really the approach that I bring to this. And when it comes to the queer community, I think so many of us experience whether it's in the church or it's in our families of origin, we feel othered and ostracized, you've been punished or broken or gross because of this thing that just is very natural. Like we see gay shit in the in the animal world, and there's fungi that have 10,000 different genders, and I just think that's so magical and cool. And so, if I can offer a little bit of nurturing through the work that I provide to this world, to queer folks, trans folks, I feel blessed. And, you know, I must center my work about around the most marginalized among us, whether it's black folks, indigenous folks, um, you know, any sort of racialized person and marginalized person in this world where white cis men are the convention, the standard. Like it is essential if I am going to be a practitioner of Espiritismo Cruzal, which is a practice that comes from marginalized people and oppressed people. Like, how dare I think that I couldn't be in service to the most marginalized people first in practicing this work? Um, it is I I am blessed to have a mixed bag of ancestry that connects me to so many different people and so many different types of ancestors. And I could not call myself an ethical practitioner if I didn't center the people who are at the center of creating this spiritual practice that I am so blessed to be a part of. That's so beautiful.

What A Session Looks Like

SPEAKER_02 39:06

I that's so agree. That's so so good. Um so for folks who have been listening and they're like, oh my God, I have to work with them. Um, what does a session with you entail, start to finish? If you were going to explain it to someone who's never worked with you before, what could they expect?

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Okay, it's always a little different for everybody, but generally speaking, we open up with meditative ceremony. And either we'll begin with plaktica, which is heart-centered conversation. It's really an opportunity for you to share and for me to like listen and hold space for you. Sometimes the spirits interject themselves at the beginning and they immediately start just yapping. These are all the things, these are all the things, these are all the things. Um, but typically after the plaktica, that's when we'll start. While I'm listening, what I'm really trying to figure out is okay, but what are you actually trying to tell me? What are you? I think that is an excellent skill, an important skill amongst readers and diviners and spiritual practitioners, because clients will come to the table and share so many things. And it's our job to really listen and discern, okay, what is it you really need help with? And from there, you know, we will begin to channel spirits, either my guides, their guides, their ancestors, whomever is most appropriate to connect with, and we'll begin offering spiritual remediations, practical remediations. And it's important that folks realize that this is um, this is work for both of us. Like I'm doing the job of channeling and offering you the information. And then after you leave my table, it's up to you to decide, okay, what am I gonna do with this now? How am I going to take action? And um, we sometimes will do a limpia cleansing at the end if it feels necessary or appropriate, and then we'll close with a closing ritual. And then after our session is over, I send over a recording and I send over a nice little list with bullet points of all of the things the spirits are encouraging you to do because I think it's nice to have. And that's that's typically how things go.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

Wait, and I feel like your clients reach out to you and they're like, Mom, guess what I did? And they probably want to make you so proud that they did the things.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

I they do. Those are my favorite emails, or I'll get photos, like photo updates, and um yeah, people love sending me updates and I love receiving them. It's my favorite thing because I am so I'm so proud of everyone. Like, we are, I'm gonna cry. Like, life is supposed to be good. We were born on the garden planet, there is enough for everyone in abundance. Um, yes, living in a human body, we are going to experience struggle, uh, even in the most perfect world. But like we are all supposed to live well. And if working with me and opening the door to your spirits gives you the audacity to take even the tiniest steps towards feeling better and living better, like that brings me absolute joy. So when folks send me updates, like it really makes me so happy. Um, yeah, that's the best part.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Caitlin, that is so beautiful. And that's like the truest form of magic is knowing that abundance is available for everyone, that joy is a privilege. It's not a privilege, it's a right for everyone. Thank you for saying that. That was that was really beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

Yeah, it's a beautiful belief with that requires radical action to make that happen. And I think people need to hear that right now.

Cartomancy, Tarot, And Lenormand

SPEAKER_03 43:05

Uh things are tough and it we still can pursue joy, and that's still what we're our purpose is here on earth is to make everyone's life as full of peace and joy and safety as possible. Yeah. So thank you for being such a huge part of that for people. Um, I'm gonna switch gears a little bit. Can you talk about your relationship with cartomancy? And I'm actually going to look at my co-host and say, is it cartomancy? Is it cartomancy? I say cartomancy. It's one of those words that I see and never have to say out loud. So I just wanted to make sure I'm saying it correctly on the internet. I'm always like, well, I know what it sounds like in my head. Yes, cartomancy. Okay, perfect. You know what I'm talking about, the cards, reading the cards. You have a beautiful deck, the offerings oracle, but you also read tarot. How do these tools speak to you and how do you use them? Oh, I love this question.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

So I love cards. I love cards, I love playing cards. Um, my on my maternal side, we come from a family of light crime and gambling and bookkeeping was a part of it. Um and, you know, my nonnie taught me how to shuffle a deck of cards and play blackjack and gin and all those things when I was four. And she would always joke, like, I'm not your grandmother when we're playing cards. But I used to love watching her hands with her long orange, oh, there's something about women from like the 50s to the 70s. They all did that orange frosted nail and watching her nails shuffle the cards, I was like, that is the life I want to live. And um my grand, my great-grandmother on my paternal side used to have this little orange deck of playing cards that I think a lot of us have seen at the store. And it's they're like a fortune-telling deck, it has a little picture of a witch on it. And I used to take them out and read them for my cousins. Uh, and I thought I was so cool. And then we'd be like, hide the cards, which is funny because like we got them from my grandma. Why are we hiding them? Um, and I remember when I was still in my like, ooh, internet witch era, I went to the Bodhi tree on Melrose rip. It was a very cool metaphysical secondhand store, and I bought my first Smithwaite tarot deck, and oh, it just felt so special that experience. And I opened them up and I was like, fuck it, I get this. Like these cards are stories, they're each a story, but they can also make a bigger story, and each one of them is like a window into my life or someone else's life or or into a fantasy world, and I just think that's so neat. And um, in readings, I tend to use them always anymore, uh, unless I'm doing like a tarot specific event, but uh I do tend to use them quite a bit for fortune telling more than mediumship at this point. Um, I like using tarot for like specific information. I also have really gotten into working with tarot in my uh membership group, Moon Shadows. We each month do uh tarot support group, and it's it's basically a study group, and we'll focus on one card. And a lot of it has to do with like character building and pursuit of destiny and discovering our personal ethics and defining the things that are important to us and seeing the ways that we relate to the world around us and how we can show up for our communities and show up for ourselves, and we'll use one card each month to explore these themes, and I think that's a really fun way to use tarot. I've also used tarot to help my kids with creative writing projects in school because they're prompts. It's so neat. Um, but lately I've been really into Lenarmond, which the spirits have been trying to get me to read for a long time. And I was like, I don't know, a whole new system sounds like too much for me, but it's not. It's amazing, and I love it. So I just I love cards. I have so many. I love cards.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

Oh, that's so funny. My uh spirits have also been urging me to learn Lenormand cards, and they're more popular with Roma in Brazil. I didn't grow up reading them, but um uh some Brazilian contacts have been like, oh, that's mostly what we do here. I mean, of course they use other decks too, but I'm really loving it too. I'm like, oh, okay, no, I get it.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Once I was like, okay, I'll try this. I oh, a whole new world, a whole new world, and so good for fortune telling. Like space, uh, juicy.

SPEAKER_03 47:38

What's what is the what is the difference or what's the iconography that you're working with?

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Okay, so tarot is 78 cards divided into the major arcana, the minor arcana, and then the minor arcana is divided into four suits. Lenormond is kind of based on playing cards, but each there there it doesn't have the same kind of system as tarot, and it's 50. No, it's less cards than that. It's not 52, like a playing card deck. It's like I don't know, it's fucking cool, it's neat, they're tiny, which I think is cool, and they're very like practical. The the cards are very practical, so it's like fish and snake and the sun and man or woman or who met birds, communication, gossip. Like it's just it's a whole other vibe. And especially my like um Ava, my Bombajira spirit, she like loves Brazilian, she loves the Lennerman card because she's like, Oh, all the better to drag you with. I'm like, excellent, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

It kind of reminds me of um tea leaf reading because the symbols are very like, you know, fish in tea leaf reading is also money, which is in the Lennerman card. So I wonder if they have the same root or something, but yeah, they're cool. Yes, I love it. Coming back to your Oracle deck, um, would you like to pull a card for the listeners just to give them a taste of what you know, whatever message is coming to them now, but also what your deck is like. Absolutely.

Offerings Oracle Pull: Defend

SPEAKER_00 49:16

So my deck is called Offerings Oracle, and it's 33 cards. And I really made it with the intention of helping my clients, helping anyone, anyone, to see the idea of offerings outside of a capitalistic uh transactional lens, and rather as a tool for relationship building. So the card I pulled is defend. And for folks listening, it's a machete, a rose, and the thorned uh stems of the rose. And um I mean, we're recording this in the United States right now, and I live in a neighborhood that has been impacted by ice for the last 200 plus days, and I think that as spiritual practitioners, one of the things that we can do as a part of the community is to use those gifts of creating spiritual defense for everyone, like it's not just about warding yourself and warding your home, but like, how can you extend that to your neighborhood? How can you extend that to your neighbors? And then how can you take practical action that aligns with those spiritual actions? What are you able to do? What is within your capacity and your access to do to help protect those around you? Um, because this is hard, this is weird and it's hard and it's it's not normal. And if we have the ability to protect one another, like we have to be brave and do it, do it. And um, you know, everybody's calling when it comes to protecting one another will be different. Like uh maybe you're handing out those ice cards to, you know, what to do if ice shows up to your neighbors. Um, we are currently organizing, we've been organizing for over a year now, uh, community patrols at school drop-off and school pickup for our vulnerable elementary schools in the areas. Um, what are the different ways? If you can't physically be there, can you be the person on the chat letting folks know which school to go to? Um, we need to get creative. And I think it's it's natural to fall into a state of this is bad and I don't know what to do, so I'm not gonna do anything. But I don't think we have that luxury at this point. Um and the defend card reminds us that not only is this an offering to our community, but also if you come from a lineage of marginalized and oppressed people, like that protection you're offering to your community, you're also giving back to them as a form of ancestral healing. If you come from a lineage of folks who have caused harm, uh, that protection you are offering to your community helps heal the impact of the harms that were caused before you. This feels like the perfect card right now. It's not fun, but it's real.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

Spiritual work is you know, it's real. And yeah, it is a spiritual calling to protect our neighbors and abolish ice, and everyone has a role to play in that resistance and the change. Thank you so much for that. That's beautiful, that's perfect.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

That was really gorgeous, and I I love the significance as well that you're for all of us, our presence here on earth now is the representation of so many ancestors that came before us, and what our duty is in this moment is to either reverse harm of of those that came before us or to continue the work of those that that supported their communities. And so we all have to hold each other's hand right now. So that's really beautiful. And I love the idea of the rose being protected by the machete. That feels extremely, extremely uh uh evocative as an image.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

It reminded me of the uh Marian Moore poem. Um, I think it's called The Rose, but there's a line that says, Your thorns are the best part of you. And um, it's amazing, and everyone should look that up. Uh Roses Only by Marian Moore, just saying perfect poem for writing.

unknown 53:58

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

And you know what I love about the rose? Like, roses are at least a million years old, right? They've seen some shit, and yet they're so beautiful, and they continue to be here and they keep growing and they keep showing up and they maintain their softness and their sweetness, um, but they also stand firm. And I think it's kind of got a maternal energy too, you know, like I will hold you and be tender with you, but also I have these thorns to protect the things that I care about. And it's it's this image of resilience doesn't just have to be hard and sharp. Um, there can also be sweetness and softness too. And I just I think that's so yummy.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

That is so gorgeous. Um, you know, we do like to be evocative of the cards and what the images mean to us and how we're feeling into um different, different, uh, different themes on the cards. I'm sorry. Um, so we like to play a little game, and I think that you're gonna be really good at this game for some reason, where especially for our listeners that are new to tarot and they like to have song associations with different tarot cards. Um, we like to say what's a tarot card and what's a song combo that you would like to offer them. And I can go first. I like to challenge myself in this game. And today I'm gonna offer um the King of Cups M83 outro because you know that he is emotional. AF. And that is my song offering today. And I was thinking about it earlier and I was like, yeah, it's the King of Cups.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

I love it. I love the moodiness. I love music that makes you cry. Okay, I have two, and the first one is Careless Whispers, George Michael, and the five of swords. I love the careless whispers of a good friend. I'm never gonna dance again. Guilty feet have got no rhythm. Like that, that card is betrayal. What's the relationship between these people? Somebody's crying. There was an emotional connection here, like it's deep. Uh that's that one. It came on the radio this morning, and I was like, that's it. Perfect. And then a sweeter one is Mushaboom by Feist and The Six of Cups. And that song is really a song about, you know, with the Two of Cups, there's lust, there's spark, there's just this like chemistry connection. I don't know why we're into, but it's also the two. We don't really know each other, it's early, right? But in the six of cups, there's this sincere investment in wanting life to be comfortable and good for this other person in your life. And there's this tenderness and sweetness, and mushaboom is this song about building a home and together because each other a lot, and making some, you know, I think there's Lenicos, um, I've got a man who works it out, makes a home of rented house, and we'll collect the moments one by one. And this is how our story is done. And I just think that's so sweet. Because the six of cups also has some nostalgia, so there's memories that are involved, and I just uh I just think that's sticky and good.

Daily Spiritual Care That Actually Helps

SPEAKER_01 57:23

So good, so good.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

Oh my gosh, I love that so much. I haven't thought about Mashaboom in a second, and I also love the whimsy of it, and that feels so six of cups to me, too. That's so sweet. I have an unusual one today. I, you know, this one people could argue on. I think it's nice to get people to argue something. Um, I've had Francis Forever by Mitsuki stuck in my head, and I've been associating it with the Ace of Cups, which is a little bit unusual. One could argue maybe it's more Five of Cups with this kind of longing for the love. But I'm thinking about a lot of love poems of longing being in ancient, especially um Persian traditions of this like longing for the spiritual and or longing for like the um the spiritual love. The ace of cups is that a little bit for me. It's it's deep, deep love. It's the realization that you have to love yourself first through Paul style, you know, and so it's bringing me back to the ace of cups instead of the five.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

I love the yearning. Yeah, the yearning with the ace of cups. That's juicy.

SPEAKER_02 58:33

Thank you for playing with us. We really do love it. Yes. So, what kinds of spiritual or divinatory tools and practices do you tend to do for your self-care outside of client work or maybe to maintain yourself in between client work?

SPEAKER_00 58:49

That's a really good question. So, I think the most important thing that I do is pray. I wake up in the morning, I greet my altars, I greet my head, my Ori, I greet my ancestors, I greet my spiritual court, I greet the other spirits that I work with. I touch my head to the earth and greet my first mother and reconnect with her. And doing that every morning really, I feel like sometimes when I tell people, I'm like, you just like it's these little simple things that can have such an incredible impact. And really, like that is what keeps me centered, that is what keeps me focused, calming my head, cooling my head, collecting myself, and remembering who I am in service to um really has the greatest impact on every single decision I make for the rest of the day. And at the end of the night, I'll do it again and offer gratitude, ask for alms, and um really like. That the morning and the night practice of prayer. And it it doesn't, you know, have to be this big ceremonial thing that takes an hour unless you vibe with that. Love it if you love it. Um, but usually I look over at the clock and I was like, wow, that took six minutes. Um, but so much can happen because time's not real, like so much can happen, so many things can be experienced in those six magical minutes if you give yourself the opportunity to have those six minutes before you start your day. So, like that truly is what anchors me into this life and helps me show up every single day. Uh, some other things that I like to do. I'm really into the spiritual shower. I love a spiritual bath, but as a mom, I don't always have capacity to like prepare and do that for myself because it's I'm tired. I'm very tired, but a nice cold spiritual shower. I also um for a while I was making uh we have a traditional spiritual bath called Bagno Blanco in Ispiridismo. And actually, you can connect that back to our African ancestors. Um, but it's a white bath and it uses goat's milk, cascarilla, a little rum, some white flower petals. And I was working with my friend Sam, who has a nano soapery in Denver called Toil and Trouble, and we were able to put all of the ingredients for Vanio Blanco into a soap, which was so cool. And it's so nice to just like be able to soak myself up with that. Also, African black soap works really well for this type of spiritual shower because not everybody has the ability to get in the tub, not everybody has a tub. We are living in a renter's world right now, and so a nice cold spiritual shower really does the trick. Making sure I eat when I'm hungry, making sure I drink water when I'm thirsty, going to the bathroom when I need to go to the bathroom. Pending to this altar is what makes everything more manageable. Because if I am focused on how hungry I am, but I have access to food, like that's not right. And and I can't make good decisions if I'm not making sure I tend to my physical, earthly needs first. I know that I wish I had some big mystical cool advice to give y'all, but really it's like tend to your body as a human being on this earth as much as you are able to. And in doing so, like navigating through this life becomes that much easier because you know that your your basic needs are being met to the best of your ability. Like, like that is spiritual care, truly getting sleep that is spiritual care.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:49

Yeah, the amount of times I've shuffled my deck feeling weird, being like, what do I need to know? And I've pulled the Queen of Pentacles and she's like, But should you have breakfast? I'm like, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

Yes, so many cards in Offerings Oracle are like, go eat something. Have you had water?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:12

Oh my gosh. And I love what you said too about we live in a renter's world, like just because you don't have access to a gorgeous tub or you know, any of you shouldn't deprive yourself because you don't have certain things. Like it's important to indulge in, like you said, you're touching yourself, like in this altar and this body and this mind. And that is that's something that we really should all be coming back to over and over in 2026 and making it a regular practice. Um, speaking of 2026, what do you have coming up on the horizon that you would like to share with our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

Ah, so this spring, I am hosting a new cohort called Oracle Activation. And it's something that I've been working on since about 2021, but it wasn't ready until now. And this is going to be the first time I'm hosting a container for developing the skill of transmediumship. I have quite a few long-term clients who have been asking me to help them with this particular gift, and it just never felt like the right time or like I had the right protocol and methodology. And finally, it was like, okay, now we're doing it now. So that's happening over this spring. In the fall, I teach Into the Veil, which is my Ispiditismo group mentorship. And I teach that every year. So it'll be back in the fall, just in time for the ancestors. And year-round, I have my books open for spiritual consultations. And although I've had to scale way back so that I can focus more on um group work, uh I really feel like I can be of greater support to folks in a teaching space or in a group development space, uh, which is also um available to people via Moon Shadows, which is my little mystic school where we have um we have different classes every single. It's actually sometimes I like look back at the calendar and I'm like, we do a lot of great stuff here every single month. And it just like comes out of my brain. Like, how do we how do we do this stuff? But every month we have a tarot class, we have guided meditations, we have guest lectures. Jasmina is actually going to be a guest teacher next month. I'm very excited. Um, yeah, yes, the moonbeams have been asking for palmistry, and I'm like, I can't teach that. I cannot teach what I do not know. But let me find an expert. And um, I also host group readings in there. We have a Discord group that's always active, and it really like I have to take a step back sometimes and really sit in gratitude because we have less than a hundred people in that space, but everybody is so actively supportive in one another's lives at this point. Like folks who meet up in Moon Shadows end up becoming friends in real life. And I, you know, I have two clients that didn't know that they both lived in Puerto Rico and now they like hang out all the time and they went to Bad Bunny together. So jealous. Um like um it's I see them popping up doing classes together and like encouraging, it's just really cool the energy that we've been able to foster in that space. And that's a big reason why I've reduced my availability for one-on-ones because this thing is just so special and I want to keep pouring into that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:45

That's beautiful, yeah. I mean, you're creating your own little special community and it's so needed. What is the best way for people to get in touch with you, either to join Moon Shadows or do some client work with you, or you know, otherwise support your work?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

So the best way to find me is on my website, www.motherofmystics.com. There you can access uh my bookings calendar, moon shadows. I also have a la carte classes available. You can sign up for the wait list for any of my big classes, like into the mail. I also have a blog with a lot of free resources. There's a lot of stuff, like years of stuff on that blog for you to search through. And I provide quite a bit of free content on social media. You can find me at Caitlin, K-A-I-T-L-I-N dot grana g-r-a-n a on Instagram.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:44

Ah, wonderful. Yeah, I love your social media. I agree, it's a great resource. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:50

And all of those links we'll have in the show notes for everybody too, so they can click in as they're listening.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much, Caitlin. This was such a pleasure. We really appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:02

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:04

Amazing. Thank you.

Closing Gratitude And Links

SPEAKER_01 1:09:26

Music by Taylor. Follow us at Immaterial World Pod on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Visit our website at www.immaterial dashworld.com. Or send us an email at Immaterial World Pod at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

Welcome to the Immaterial World.