.png)
Immaterial World
A dedicated and transparent space to re-center how we explore glamour, fashion, magic, wellness, culture, and everything else we love, together.
hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele
Immaterial World
OPULENT WITCH with Kiki Robinson
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Kiki Robinson aka Opulent Witch (they/them) is a multi-disciplinary artist, dancer, tarot reader and practicing witch. Their intention is to support others in connecting to their own divinity and assist in transformation through ritual, creative tending, and facilitating erotic expression. Their art and magic is centered in sensuality and embodiment, depth and shadow, and community and collective healing.
In this episode, Kiki talks about dismantling the hierarchy of healing and how they make it accessible for those they work with; empowering individuals and communities through rituals; digital spellwork; and so much more.
Listeners can receive a 20% discount on readings and sessions when you use code TAROT at check-out on www.opulentwitch.com.
For more about Kiki visit:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/Opulentwitch
Instagram: @opulentwitch
The Living Altar Instagram: @thelivingaltar
Become an Immaterial World supporter!
Hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele
For bookings and for more about Jessica visit: www.the12th.house and Instagram: @jessicaxrich
For bookings and for more about Jezmina visit: www.jezminavonthiele.com and Instagram: @jezmina.vonthiele
Music and editing by DIA LUNA
Instagram: @dialunamusic
Artwork by Lane Friend
Instagram: @friendlane
Welcome to Material World, a dedicated and transparent space to recenter how we explore glamour, magic, culture, and everything else we love together.
SPEAKER_04:Material world means material world.
SPEAKER_02:Kiki Robinson, aka Opulent Witch, is a multidisciplinary artist, dancer, tarot reader, and practicing witch. Their intention is to support others in connecting to their own divinity and assist in transformation through ritual, creative tending, and facilitating erotic expression. Their art and magic is centered in sensuality and embodiment, depth and shadow, and community and collective healing.
SPEAKER_00:Listeners can receive a 20% discount on readings and sessions when you use code tarot at checkout on www.opulantwitch.com.
SPEAKER_02:There is a lot of curiosity these days around having spiritual practitioners create custom rituals or spells for their clients. While we certainly hear about the more taboo or salacious kind of spells, especially those that are meant to cause harm, there are so many ways to work with guides to truly enrich your manifestation and protection practices. And that's just one topic we're chatting about today with our guest, the truly magical Kiki Robinson. Kiki, welcome to the immaterial world.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. I know that you and Jez are friends, but tell us a little bit about your origin story, all of the things I don't know about you. What brought you to where we are here today?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so um I am from the Pacific Northwest, um, born and raised where I live today, uh in Seattle, Washington. I grew up about 45 minutes, like hour outside the city. Um, yeah, as a young person, I was deeply introverted and uh spent a lot of time in the forest and doing art. Um, my mom is an artist, so I was really around it from a young age. Um yeah, I remember having moments of like big psychic opening when I was a young person. Um, but I think that it was very overwhelming and it also freaked other people around me out, so I really kind of shut those channels down uh when I was much younger. But when I was in my late teens, I started exploring divination and psychic mediumship and tarot as well. I was self-guided, so I was getting books from the library. It was a time when the internet wasn't only, I think I had it was before I even got like an email address. So I was getting books at like the used bookstore, stuff like that, and started diving into yeah, tarot pendulum work, um, yeah, divination work, and really kind of started opening up my channel. Um, it was definitely like a process, um, but it that was really when the door started to open. Um, and then yeah, when I moved to the city um in my, you know, like late teens, early 20s, I started to get into performance work. So when I was 20, I started exploring burlesque and cabaret. And I was thinking back on this actually, it my first performance was in a bar, and I remember like it was kind of this big thing because I had like just turned 21 right before the performance. So I was like kind of like nervous about being like, okay, like I'm like diving into this work and like kind of opening um yeah, like the door to this, and I had just turned 21, so I was able to perform at the bar. Um, but yeah, I started really getting into uh performance, cabaret. I was really starting to get involved in like queer nightlife. I was coming out as queer at the time and was also in school for printmaking as well. So I was kind of exploring all these different mediums at that moment. That was like back in like 2007. Um, and through my 20s, really leaned on magic and ritual in times of challenge. So if I was going through something, I was really leaning in to um my magical practice, and it was kind of more behind the scenes. Um, and I wasn't super public about it. Um, when I started going through my Saturn return, which um people may or may not know, like it's an astrological moment in our late 20s, usually around the time of 27, that Saturn returns to the place that we um our origin point, our birth birth point. And it can be a moment of big, you know, challenges that come up, awakening, initiation. And, you know, at that moment, things really, really started to open up for me. I had never really planned on being a more public witch, I guess, and running a business in this work. I had originally planned on being an art teacher. And so things like really, my path really shifted. Um, and I started get moving into doing like more formal training. Um, so doing work in like psychic mediumship more formally. Um, around that time, I also started getting involved in the School of Traditional Magic, which is Ovomara Rajasowski's school, um, who also founded the Cunning Crow Apothecary and the Witches Simple, and um was a really big influence in me kind of kind of opening, opening up a little bit more to my work. Um, and around that time too, I was still doing burlesque, doing performance, I was integrating ritual work into my performance. So I was starting to like really share ritual performance art. And um yeah, I was really like coming into doing readings for uh community. So I started doing readings at queer parties, and that was kind of how I started to share uh my tarot readings. Um yeah, and then gosh, I'm like, okay, where to where to go from there? I really started just like integrating all these different components. I was also involved and starting to learn about death work as well. And yeah, as I've worked as a dancer on and off for many years. Um, so just really getting connected to um yeah, these different mediums and like pulling all these different threads together. Um in 2020, um I lost like three of my jobs and I that were in-person jobs, and so I started really bringing my work online. Um, I had kind of more so started my business in 2015, but had always done it on the side and um started really doing digital work and spell work through videos, and um yeah, just started really share it publicly and with community and started doing a lot of community ritual work, especially with the living altar, um, which is the Oracle deck that Ilva and I created back in 2018. So um yeah, and then today I'm really integrating erotic magic and uh ritual work, and I'm studying somatic sex education and kind of exploring how ceremony and the erotic intersect and working a lot with uh activism work and collective tending and support work for community with all these different pieces. Yeah, I kind of like I said, like it's been so nonlinear. I just kind of like allow the stream to guide me to the spaces that I'm needed in. And that's really been my intention with like working with spirit, my spiritual gifts and working with magic is like just to be guided to where I'm needed in community and in you know these big collective moments that we go through. Uh, I just trust that I'm going to be led to where my work is needed.
SPEAKER_00:That's beautiful. Is your background in cabaret and performance where the term opulent witch comes from, or does that come from somewhere else?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it does. I I feel like there was so much overlap because I started actually integrating ritual work into my performances. So towards kind of the end of being in that realm, um, and I still have like a lot of like overlap with it, although I'm not actively doing burlesque anymore. Um, I was doing ritual performance art. Um, and then I started getting into making films and like short like spell videos and started infusing spell work with ritual and kind of like energetic intention. Um, and so that was something I I really love to do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It suits you so well. I think of you as the opulent witch, even though I also think of you as my friend Kiki and I'm happy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think like honestly, it just kind of emerged at some point where I was like, well, I just love embodying um, you know, glamour. And I'm really, I really love like glamour magic and and like love magic and these energies that exude sensuality.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that is so gorgeous. Like co-opting opulent as your word. That is amazing. And it it is so, so fitting. Uh, there is a word that you don't love. You've said before that you don't personally like to use the word healer to describe your work. Can you share a little bit about why?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. I gosh, I feel like I have so much resistance to it that I have moments of reflection of like, okay, what is it about this term that I have resistance to? And I think that I always come back to feeling like I want to dismantle the hierarchy of being someone or like being seen as someone who kind of holds something that isn't accessible. Like, if that makes sense, like I really approach and I try to approach my sessions and working with clients and groups in a very non-hierarchical way of just being like, I'm holding this with you, like I'm here to like support and hold the container, but like uh more so I don't want to yeah, like embody something that is like hierarchical. And sometimes I do think that you know the term healer can be like, I'm I think the shadow of it can be seen as like, oh, there's like fixing involved involved in this. And I have resistance to that.
SPEAKER_02:Oh wow, yeah. I I love that idea. The what did you just say? The the people could connect to it on their own. You're you're more the facilitator of the connection rather than I own something that you don't have access to. That's really beautiful.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:Oh no, go ahead, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:It feels so good just from a trauma-informed perspective, too, where you are helping people navigate things rather than fixing them.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I really want to empower people's choices and their agency and like their own autonomy and more so be a reflector of like um reminding them like what that they can trust their intuition. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, let's talk about what a session feels like with you, especially for someone who's new to tarot or ritual work. From the time that someone books time with you, what might they expect to unfold?
SPEAKER_03:Well, um, I always tell people, like, as soon as you book, the work begins. And so um, you know, as soon as we make the appointment, there can be shifts in the energy. And the reason why the work begins upon the appointment being made is because I start to hold people on my altar and to hold people in that work. Um, and really it's like a reflection of their choice that they're choosing to show up for themselves as well. Um and yeah, so usually there will be some like energy that happens is like often the um the reflection that I get when I do talk to clients that they're like, oh, there's this like been this sometimes, like they'll show up and be like, it's started to resolve itself already, or you know, there will be these kind of things that start to occur. Um, you know, especially if we're doing more cleansing work, it can kind of ramp up a little. So I always have suggestions for people to really support themselves and take care of themselves. Um, but I feel like the time that we have in session or through the reading is just the the time that is in the real time, but there's so much happening other than that hour or you know, 90 minutes. Um and yeah, I also really love to integrate like flowers into my work. I yeah, I want to name one of my teachers, Miriam Hasna, who I was taking a flower essence training with. Um, and so I've started to kind of integrate like the different uh healing gestures of the flowers. And so I'll usually feel flowers arriving before we come on to a reading or a session. And so I'll start to kind of feel that energy building the container. And when I start to connect with someone's energy, there will be like a lot that starts to come through very immediately. And so I usually like to ground and that I'll take people through just a really um, yeah, just like a really grounding kind of uh container setting of like casting the circle and just making sure that we're in a very like protected space. And so I really like to start with that. Um, and because I work with psychic mediumship and um, you know, connection, conversation with the other person's spirits, I usually will very intentionally call in um their spirits as well. They usually will be already arriving um because it's like that moment. And I work with, I do work with tarot. I also work with the Living Altar Oracle deck, which um both Ilvamar Rajasowski and myself created um through, yeah, I can share more a little bit about that, but I work with Oracle cards and then also tarot. And um, yeah, I really love to integrate both like Oracle and Tarot and working with the archetypes specifically, reading the archetypes and seeing kind of what's needed for the person. I see tarot as a mirror and a conversation, it's a visual storyboard to guide someone through. And I just I really love working with it in ceremony and session because it it really allows there to be that um, yeah, that that visualization, that kind of um that grounding point for people to see. And then I work with ceremony and energy work, which I facilitate through sound. It's sound, song, noise, yeah, all the different things to support people in that process. And so there can be many things that happen in that. Mostly my intention is to like support people's path and their soul's journey and their sovereignty. But yeah, there can be like a lot that comes out of that as well. Like, um, often I'll create like custom rituals for people. Um, and so there'll be kind of instructions on like what is needed for that person, and that can look like me sending the person like charged candles and like different ingredients, or sometimes like there will be instruction um of like what they do at home. So it's very much custom, customized to the person receiving.
SPEAKER_02:I love when we have someone on that I've worked with before, and I'll I'll keep my my storylines a little bit loose here and not get into specifics, but I always laugh when I'm where I've worked with someone and I can say, I know that my spirit guides met you very early on when I booked and was like, okay, I have things to tell you about her. You know, and I and I have a, you know, I go into a session and I'm like, oh God, what did you tell them? Like it's so, so funny. But you know, our work together has been so special. And I I had never really thought about doing customized ritual until, you know, it came up during the session that it was something that was right to do. So I I think that that's great, that that's just something that you're led to through the needs of the client.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I just really try to listen, like just really listen deeply around like what is needed. Um, and I always like check in with the person. I'll be like, this is what I'm hearing, and this is what I'm sensing is needed. And how does that feel? You know, just kind of vibe checking. Um and yeah, I like I said, it's like it's not limited to that hour, like that 90 minutes. It's like so. it's so interesting. Honestly, it feels so beautiful to me because it it continues to um I continue to learn from it. Because you know it it really does show us that like time is really not like linear. It is just truly a construct and it there's so much that exists beyond that as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah I I love that deep listening. I and as a reader too I find that so important and integral. And I would love to ask you when you approach tarot interpretations and you're also involving mediumship that's coming up during the session how do these channels help shape the language you use to communicate to clients or the message you're trying to convey sometimes I might read for someone and like I didn't know the Four of Pentacles could mean that. And that's like oh for for you Cardi maybe today it does. You know how to cycle for you.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh thank you for sharing that I I I really feel that because we're as readers it's like we're reading on so many different levels. There's all these different layers and I always think like I think about this when I'm at like events or parties and reading um it's like you're always kind of reading what's underneath the question. What's the question underneath the question? And yeah this is like a little bit of a sidetrack but I don't know if you have found this but like or how you feel about skeptics. But yeah I love skeptics. Me too that's what I say I'm like I love a skeptic because I'm always like what is the question that you're asking and I'm I'm always looking for the question underneath the question and then even a layer deeper. So when I'm reading I read I read the energy too um like I'm listening on multiple levels and then yes I do read from like the traditional readings but then I'm also reading I let the cards speak to me. I just ask the cards because I'm in a really deep relationship with them to just share with me like you know they will have a conversation with me and the images will start to pop out and yeah likewise like I'll start to um be shown like different like colors or images that start to kind of like they almost look like they're popping out of the card um or being highlighted. And so I yeah will start to see the visuals um and I'll start to just notice like what is being yeah I guess like spotlighted is the best way I can describe it. And then I'm also hearing so I tend to kind of lean into more like clear audience as well as clairvoyance. Yeah and really kind of feeling into what is being shared yeah both visually and then um like what I'm I'm listening. So I'm listening to what the spirits are sharing and then what the cards want to share too because it could be very different than you know the next person that receives you know say like the king of swords or something like that you're drawn to share like a story from that card or drawn to be shared like um like a color that really pops through and then that kind of like opens the door in the conversation. And my readings are quite conversational. My sessions tend to be a little more conversational. I I've just always kind of been that way that I want it to feel yeah like that we're having a conversation and through that conversation there there can be like the energy that's yeah being tended or or moved or um yeah it's kind of like opening up a page pages of a book.
SPEAKER_00:I love that I describe myself as a conversational reader too because I think the processing is so important and that there's that you know decentered um or not hierarchical value there too. It's just like it's it's when we get into it together.
SPEAKER_03:Yes exactly like I'm always like let's get into it like let's look at this like I get so I get really excited like um I've been doing like more events and like parties and like private parties lately and it like that is so fun for me. Like I don't know if you feel that way but like I love it. Like and you also get to meet people that haven't really gotten to engage in it before and you're like wow I like really get to like be the first person to share this with the with this person you know so yeah I really love doing doing more like public and like yeah private parties are very fun.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah they're some of my favorites too yeah I feel so lucky that I have been a student of tarot with both of you in some capacity right like learning and and working through readings and and conversations I can say that you're both excellent gentle conversationalists when it comes to the messages that come up in tarot. And one of my favorite educational tools that I've started using is assigning songs that I feel like the vibe of a certain card. So I do like I do like to play a little game where I ask our guests is there a card and a song that you think has a nice association? And I have a new one so I'll start the game today and the card is the nine of wands and the song is Get Up 10 by Cardi B.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my awesome I love I love that so much. Oh my gosh um I was yeah actually gosh I think I'm like my mind um I was meditating on this earlier um and I want to share a song that's been really coming through and I feel like it does have this connection to the tarot and it has a connection to the moment that we're in right now collectively um which is Revolution by Nina Simone. And the the star card has really been at the forefront. So I feel like there's this connection I've been meditating a lot with the star and then also the devil as well and I feel like both our cards of this moment like we've been in the tower you know like that has been you know present I think. Yes for sure but also I feel like the presence of the star and I feel like the presence of the devil as well um and like the devil is often quite feared you know and when it comes out like I I feel like people often will have a response to it and I always think like there's no bad cards like there's no bad like negative but like it is such a mirror you know and I think that it's this beautiful energy of like an opportunity of um like liberation and breaking free of the patterns and the cycles that we've been in and also getting to confront the fear and the shadow and yeah I feel like the star like I think about the star comes right after the tower. And so it like there's this overlap and there's a glimmer of that future that future like um time and like vision of like calling us forward of like creating a new a new world and like creating yeah new like visions for what we we want to embody here.
SPEAKER_02:I love that I always think the star to you know not all cards feel as strongly associated to astrology as the star does to me with Aquarius which is you know that nonconformist thinking like true optimism because you are feeling safe in revolution or evolution and changing and and I I love I deeply love that messaging for the star and how much hope there is there. But the the caveat of the hope is that it means nothing can look the same that it that it did at one point.
SPEAKER_03:Yes that there will be inevitable change. And I also feel like I could really I could see I am doing a whole class on the star but like the star is so beautiful because it's like it brings um relationship into the conversation that we have to be in relationship with each other and like like coming out of isolation and being um in connection with the earth and to the cosmos and to like co-creating together like future like visions that are rooted in yeah sovereignty and like compassion and grace.
SPEAKER_00:Oh that's so lovely. When are you teaching this class at the end of the month?
SPEAKER_03:Oh nice yeah I've been to I do a tarot circle oh lovely yeah on your Patreon right yeah where we do like a card of the month and then I love to I love to create my own spreads like tarot spreads and then do it with other people so yeah I do kind of like a multi experiential like process with the cards where we I do like a little mini lecture talk about the symbolism and then do a spread based on that card and then do kind of a guided process to connect to the actual archetype of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah just yeah if people are not familiar with your Patreon they should absolutely join it's it's a really you give a very robust offerings and people can learn so much from being part of your community for sure.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you so much. Yeah I really love I love doing group work yeah it's really a passion of mine.
SPEAKER_00:I do too yeah it's an it's so fun. Yeah for my tarot song I've been feeling um the justice card and bastaya by Kane Kulto and um shoot who I'm obsessed with Shutez Cut's music in general like so obsessed um but really we have so much good revolution music right now but I've been listening to that song on repeat thinking of Justice Card. That is so beautiful yeah so what goes into creating a custom ritual for a client you know we've been talking about all the different ways that you create ritual and hold space containers for groups on Patreon for individual clients how do you find your way to a personalized ritual and how does that usually help people you if you want to give a few concrete examples you're welcome to um however you feel like people can hold on to that if they haven't ever done anything like that before.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah really like I said earlier um it's really kind of uh really it is quite customized because I'm I'm basing when I'm creating a ritual for someone I'm basing it off the reading that we've done. So I'm taking all of those different elements that I'm seeing and um I also work on a very elemental level. So I'm looking at like what elements are showing up here like what wants to support you like what is coming forward like what symbols are here and yeah working with like the images of the tarot to integrate into that ritual. And so usually what I'll do is I'll take all those different elements and um you know charge different items like sometimes I'll feel called to like create something entirely like for that person where I'm like okay I'm gonna create this like very custom candle with like um a bath I love to give bath rituals um so I'll charge up the salt and then add different ingredients and then I charge those different items um on different Oracle cards or tarot cards. So I'm I'm like asking those cards to really infuse into the the items. And yeah like I said I love working with flowers um um and and plants and so I like to integrate different plants and and flowers into it as well and then I yeah really feel like it's helpful because it gives something very tangible to work with um just kind of like we were talking about with the conversation like I feel like it's part of the conversation um of being like I am you know when that someone receives that they can be like okay I am in conversation with this um I am engaged with this and I think that it's just really helpful to be doing like continue that time that we had together at home um because I do a lot of virtual um I do a lot of virtual sessions I do a lot of virtual readings um which I think is really great because it's accessible and then I can see people anywhere. I also just really I love doing in-person work too so I just want to say that um but yeah I feel like it just allows there to be a deeper integration with that work. That was done. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:There's something so interesting about this to me too because when you brought up the devil people see that they think it's a bad card or there's energy that comes through when there's something that somebody desires you know I would also imagine that rituals open a road to getting what people want. So you know you're not gonna get a job the next day that brings in all of this money and abundance into your life or your lover is not going to show up at your door. I would imagine that the rituals open up even some more challenging situations that you need to move through to be in alignment with what you're asking for. Do you think that that's something that people maybe need to be aware of that they're not getting the automatic results. It's a journey to get to their desire.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah thank you so much for bringing that up because it it can, you know, when you start to kind of open the door um there can be you know things that need to be looked at or things that need to be tended that yeah ultimately are going to support you in the end but it can be it can be challenging right because it's like we've all kind of been there where we're like oh I've been avoiding this thing um I'm just gonna not look at it but you can't really do that with magic like I feel like you know ethically or like you know you can bypass but like we don't want to be spiritually bypassing um especially right now and like we want to be looking at those things right and it's just like the devil right like we want to be in connection with our shadows and with our doubts and looking at the ways that we may have I don't know self-sabotaged or like you know kind of you know come up against different obstacles or challenges but I think that I think like ritual supports us in feeling resourced um to be able to come to those spaces to process to um you know really be in relationship with them. So yeah I think ultimately like it's it can be really beautiful but yeah and also just want to name like it's not necessarily substitute for therapy you know like I think we can we can magic we can magic and ritual all we want but like I I think at the end of the day yeah just like really being in relationship with ourselves.
SPEAKER_02:100% we can yeah and something I've shared with Jez recently you know five of swords has been coming up for me so much. Like clearly it wanted me to think about what the message it was trying to get and I'm reading it as you can't skip the steps to get there. Like you can't skip to an easy victory and that feels so applicable in so many different applications of life whether they're personal things that I'm calling in or us as a collective like we have to see the ugly before we can get to this desired place. You don't get to to bypass all of the ick in the middle.
SPEAKER_00:So it it feels so resonant that you're talking about it on a personal level but then also group work and and the collective yeah I am really interested in your thoughts on advice for other practitioners of any kind who might want to create a container and approach work with clients more like space holding rather than this hierarchy. How would you give them a few tips to get started with that mindset?
SPEAKER_03:Oh my goodness I think something that I think is really important um is looking at like our values you know and being in connection with our values and our own boundaries um I do think that it's a a learn it's a continual learning process um it I don't feel like it is ever stagnant because we always have to be kind of checking in and yeah I I I feel like that is the best way to start is looking at like what are my values what are my ethics you know what are my ethics and practice and maybe even starting to create your your own code you know creating your own kind of working uh you know list or maybe inventory of what your values are um I think would probably be like my best suggestion. Uh yeah I think that's something that's been really helpful for me. And sometimes like you know it's like when you're like in the process of it you're like oh yeah this is like you're always kind of learning.
SPEAKER_00:So like I think that there's a humility to it um and just being like okay I'm learning this about my own self and my practice and like this is what I need to do in order to hold space or hold a container that is gonna support people the the most and the best it can and like also honoring our humanity and yeah but like that is something like starting with like the roots you know like foundations yeah yeah that's such good advice I always really appreciated my grandmother telling me about fortune telling work with people one of her ethics right away was it's not about you. It's never about you. Like who are you to contradict someone's experience or their reality? You know, if this isn't about how good you are at anything, you are here to be helpful. And I that stuck out to me so much as a child. And I totally agree, every reader should have their code of conduct. And um, maybe they revise it, you know, as they learn more things.
SPEAKER_03:I love that so much. Yeah, I think like also I love that kind of approach of like this isn't about you, because it is kind of you're showing up as a conduit, and you're showing up as like kind of as in neutrality, you know, and like having to kind of put aside so much of your own, kind of like letting it coexist with you, but yeah, really kind of creating a boundary and separation of like I'm here to be of service.
SPEAKER_02:When people say that magic is inherently queer or that witchcraft is inherently radical, what does that mean to you? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03:I have a lot of thoughts.
SPEAKER_02:Um casual question.
SPEAKER_03:Um I oh my god, okay, sorry. I was like just thinking about this actually. Like yeah, sorry. It I'm kind of I please don't put this in there, but like I'm kind of annoyed with some witches on the internet.
SPEAKER_00:Sure, thing.
SPEAKER_03:I'll I'll third that one. But like just the le like the white supremacy and the like spiritual bypassing, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:This is a hot hot take, but no, and if you're okay with it, I think this would be totally fair to keep in because this is why we're asking. We're at a really tough point in history where white supremacy is rampant and people in our industry don't seem to understand all the time that it is inherently um uh doing witchcraft and doing um supportive work for people is inherently anti-fascist, and we should be keeping it that way.
SPEAKER_03:This I fully agree. Like I'm getting kind of like worked up because I feel like as if you identify with being a witch, that you have obligation to show up and to be we are part of the role in yeah, being anti-fascist, and we are living in a currently in a fascist state, and it is we are witnessing, yeah, the the collapse of those systems, but it is very violent as it is occurring, as we are seeing. And I think as witches, um we come from lineages um of you know the the history of witchcraft is rooted in persecution and you know, in varying, you know, depending on what you know your own relationship was with it and like your own ancestral relationship is I think like there is commitment to showing up to be in service to um confronting, dismantling, and like unraveling these systems. And so Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm getting like lost of like what the original question was because I'm just like I have like a lot of thoughts about can you repeat the original question? Because I want to just make sure I'm on topic.
SPEAKER_02:Sure, but I I think that everything is is interconnected as we know. The question was when people say that magic is inherently queer or witchcraft is inherently radical, what does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I well, just coming back to that, like I do think that witchcraft in itself has a deep possibility of being subversive. And I think that being being queer or being in our queerness is also subversive. So I see the correlation of like being in, yeah, this kind of embodiment of um wanting to like, yeah, subvert the systems in a way and to um yeah, like really be in practice of that. And um, like I said, like I think like it's how we practice and how we show up to those commitments and those, yeah, though those obligations in a way. So I think especially in the moment that we're in, I think that it is I think being a witch is also being an activist, too, you know, and so I connect my witchcraft to activism. And I feel like there's also like an a sense of commitment to supporting community, supporting those who are being who are most vulnerable at this time, and to be in kind of an in inventory of like, is this perpetuating harm? Is this is this, you know, uh there's kind of this reflection that needs to happen. So I think that, yeah, I think like that there is a queerness to magic, although I don't think it is applicable for everyone practicing magic.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it doesn't need to be exclusionary and people don't have to identify as queer, but I think it's so helpful to understand that these practices have been tools for marginalized people to protect themselves and build community uh for centuries and centuries and centuries.
SPEAKER_02:I always come back to uh, you know, if you want to deduce it to the most basic, right? If you believe in magic and manifestation and all of these things that the collective, you know, on a larger scale is participating in, that if there are infinite abundant resources the universe can bestow upon you, then that means that there are your infinite resources for everyone. So you can't have one without the other. If you believe in manifestation, then you must also believe that all people should be free and have access to these same resources. Um, and you know, I know I'm talking to identifying witches, but as someone who has participated in other parts of spirituality or things that that might be more um sexy or or or um in alignment with with people that are starting on a journey. I have recently been seeing a lot of posts from uh uh I went on a spiritual wellness retreat over the summer. And recently one of the practitioners who, after I left the retreat, Jez is familiar with this story, I sent an email and I said, There is no way in hell that you're calling yourself a healer. Like there is just no way after that experience that I had there. And in the past week, I've seen someone post about um something to the effect of you can be spiritual and still care about money deeply. And I was like, that's some really interesting point of view, especially in this past week. And I I think that that goes back to what you're saying about um, you know, not wanting to perpetuate harm, because that in some way suggests that their ultimate goal is to get into more money or more abundance for themselves. And I just think it's so interesting when you start to dismantle it on a personal level of like, okay, well, I'm not queer and I'm still wanting to participate in magic. And it's like, you know, just ask everyone to look at the collective as a whole and uplift the most marginalized spaces and the most marginalized people. And there you can still participate in all of the things that are beautiful and that you that you want to. But it's I think it's so important for people to really um decenter themselves and and let that be the beginning of the message for sure. That's what I've been annoyed with online. It's like I will name it and claim it.
SPEAKER_03:Um yeah, because it's like to what end, like what how are you getting, you know, like it's kind of like coming back to those like values, right? Because I think being in relationship with witchcraft, with um, yeah, even like the archetype of the witch, I think it's anti-capitalist personally. And so it's like if you're exploiting that, then yeah, I mean, I just my opinion is that there can be repercussions of that, you know, where you know, we can feel it within people feel it within themselves of like, yeah, you can't be in a right relationship with an energy that when you're in actively like yeah, trying to move against like those inherent values.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. This is part of the reason why I love redirecting people to um uh the living altar oracle deck because it's the only oracle deck uh made by queer and trans creators of Romani descent. And we've talked here before about how important it is to acknowledge the contributions that Roma have made to divination, especially as a survival trade. And in addition to that, the deck is stunning and it's a beautiful tool to use. And I love using it in my personal practice and for clients, and Jess loves it too. Um, can you share a little bit about creating this deck, the living altar as a project, and how listeners can best use this revolutionary tool?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um, so I co-created this deck with um Owamara Rajazuski, and um, you know, it was a really beautiful, also nonlinear process. Um I come from a printmaking background. Um, so I am a printmaker and among other mediums, um, and so I was coming to this creation with just like my own history of um printmaking. And so the cards are hand-carved uh linoleum block prints, and so each card is hand created um where we collaged upon those prints essentially. So we did like a layering process, and the deck is cre based on the witch's wheel, um, and so there are not a lot of human elements to this card, it's very elemental based on the cycles of the moon, based on the seasons, and the cycles of life. And so the structure of it can also be used as a teaching aid as well. So uh the way we've like suggested for folks to use it is, you know, of course, in divination. It pairs really lovely with the tarot. Um, and then it's also really supportive for if you're like um a teacher and you're wanting to work with the witch's wheel or just even attuning to the witch's wheel in your own practice. And personally, I really have enjoyed, and one of our intentions with the creation of this deck was for folks to use it in ritual and ceremony, and so I think like that is a really powerful way to work with it. Um, we spent a lot of time. We spent probably the whole deck creation took three years, and then when we were working with the cards, we spent probably sometimes like 24 hours a week sometimes creating ritual for each card. So each card is infused with a spell, and if you have the deck at home, you'll probably have the spell book with it, which has different spread suggestions, um, the spells within it, and then like a guiding message on like how to integrate or kind of how to like support uh your practice with that card. Um, and so yeah, it really was a really big learning process in creating this. I've never created a deck before, and yeah, I don't think Ilva had either. And so we were really learning as we went, um, especially with like the digital rendering, and um, we had multiple people helping us. So Jessica Marie Mercy helped us with the digital rendering. We had many different elements along this process that were integrated. So we were really learning as we went. And um yeah, I think like our it really our intention was to like support people's uh magical practices and their altars with this.
SPEAKER_00:Also, for people who are curious, to Ilvemara Rajzewski also wrote a book, A Practical Guide for Witches, Spells, Rituals, and Magic for an Enchanted Life. I just wanted to shout that out too.
SPEAKER_03:It's such a good book.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's so good. Yeah, and I really love that in the Oracle deck you have cards that have, you know, words on them and themes like summer or um promise, but you also have visual spells, and that's a really big part of your work on Patreon, on Instagram. Can you share a little bit more about what visual spells are and how they work, just for anyone who doesn't have experience with them?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I I mean I come from this art an art background, and it's funny because like I've really it had just like also a lot of resistance to be called like naming myself as an artist, but I truly do have like uh yeah, this deep connection to uh creativity and to art making, and I think it's because of that background that I am just really drawn to the visual, and I really love like I said earlier, like I love making uh spell videos, and that's something also within the living altar. We um it was a ritual, it's a ritual art project. So there's an integration of like different spell videos and altar services. Um, and then I really like making digital spells, so that is something I feel yeah, really connected to. And yeah, I got more into like digital magic. Um, probably for the last five years, I've been exploring digital magic, and I'm actually working on Ren right now. It's like an anti-AI surveillance, like anti-fascism digital spell. So that's a current project I'm working on, which will be out soon. Um, and yeah, I really feel like it's it can be very powerful to connect to imagery, to visuals. I like to integrate like a lot of emojis as well, because I think that it's like this symbol of something that we all kind of engage with on like a daily basis and how we have conversations even and these different symbols, like they evoke like a certain feeling or emotion. Um, and so I really like layering my digital spells. Like I'll I'll layer the living altar cards or uh tarot in intertwined into those images, and you know, connecting to these different archetypes, it supports people in connecting to themselves as well.
SPEAKER_02:Love that. We know art is a universal language, we know emojis are a universal language, but dance is also sort of a universal language as well. We love how dance and sensuality are central to your practice. Can you share a little bit about how you use movement and the kind of magic it best lends itself to?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so um I have been a dancer, movement artist for yeah, a long time, most of my life. And um yeah, like I said, I also was in performance art and like burlesque and cabaret. Um and I'm currently actually a student of the Institute of Somatic Sex Education. So I'm learning currently a lot about somatics and how it's connected to the body and eroticism. So I've been kind of taking, you know, that those experiences of being a dancer and seeing like how does this integrate into ritual? How does like the body integrate into ritual? How does our own eroticism connect to ritual and magic? And yeah, not to keep bringing up the the times are in, but I think that it's so important to um be in connection with our sensuality and our eroticism in times that like there is this like dismantling of the systems because our sensuality, our eroticism is like our creativity, it's our life force, it's like our power. And so personally, I really like to connect to any sort of movement, erotic movement, erotic ritual, in connection to like feeling that deep, deep connection to something that can never be taken away. That you know, it is like an embodiment and it is like part of me. And so it comes from that space of expression. So yeah, I've been very uh experimental with it all. Um, so it's been something I've like I'm still in process with. Um and yeah, it really is like something that I've come to, especially over the last couple years, through this study, is that there's a lot of um unshaming that is needed. Like, I think that um, yeah, I mean, I could kind of go into this, but like I feel like depending on, you know, if we come from organized religion or like have yeah, religious trauma, or like even in our kind of our society, there can be a lot of shame around sensuality and erotic, like that fully full embodiment of our erotic power. And so I think yeah, there it can be just like this process of like needing to kind of unshame and like kind of go through those processes of like being like, This actually is not mine, this didn't come from me, this isn't part of me, this like shame or guilt or fear around.
SPEAKER_00:it so yeah that's kind of that's where I've been at with with that it's still such a it's like a um a deepening of something I've I've been in a curriculum of but it's been really powerful it's really broken me open over especially the last year into like yeah exploring like erotic ritual and and the body that is so exciting so if you were going to share these offerings with someone who's pretty new to somatic ritual um or to understanding how the erotic or the sensual can help them what would you suggest they consider as far as like what doors could this open for someone who's curious I'm just thinking one of those things that I feel like listeners might be like I think that would be good for me but how do I know?
SPEAKER_03:Because I think it can feel intimidating even though it you know it doesn't need to be um I think that I I've given this homework to like clients too where I'm like I feel like taking like a a movement class can be really powerful especially if that has been something that people haven't explored before. I want to make a shout out to my uh a friend co-collaborator Monica who teaches this class called Slither and it's really incredible we've actually co-taught before we've done Slither and collaboration with the class that I've been teaching is cosmic lap dance and so we've been doing it in person but I've been thinking about doing something like online. Please I want that it's really like a devotion like the intention through these movement practices I've been doing has been like self-devotion you know deep self like uh radical self-love and so it's coming from this place of like this is um yeah like this is in devotion to like your your love for yourself you know and that can be complicated that can bring up so much but I think you know I don't know I'm just like vibing right now I'm channeling but like you know like a practice could be okay I have a practice for people like I love to do this divination practice called uh spirit DJ where you pull up you know whatever music platform that you're using or like to use and pull up you know maybe your favorite artist or maybe playlist hit shuffle let it play the song that is needed for you what messages are in the song light a candle get the vibes going turn the lights off get the disco light out and just let yourself like move maybe even like be slow with it it's not about performance I think like dislike also like yeah dismantling like the idea of performance like this isn't like for someone else this is for you you know that could be like a practice people explore in their own space on their own um doing it on like a new moon or a full moon could be a really wonderful time to do that but I think music can be just like a really powerful um magical supportive yeah conduit for like transformation too so especially music that moves you oh I love this I am such a fan of shufflemancy and I feel like the guides they get it like sometimes I need a like a more gentle message through the song sometimes like last week I was just like in a mood and there's a song it's like bitch just fucking do it and they just sing it over and over I was like actually that is the vibe I needed oh my gosh I love you're going like in multiple places you're like going into the grocery store and that song is playing and you're like all right I'm getting the message yes and it's like okay I will just fucking do it okay fine I love that you're so um you know you're so gentle with yourself from everything that you're telling us and and the way that you indulge in your practices and also engage with your practices uh are there any other kind of spiritual or divinatory tools that you use for your own self-care yeah gosh I mean it's it really ebbs and flows I think um I have practices that I are like foundations to my work of like my own self-practice and then there's things that I will kind of um be drawn to or like feel really called to integrate for the season right or that time that moon or that phase right um something I really love to do I'll just like share some of the practices that I love I have done walking meditation for as long as I've known um it's also a form of divination for me because I like to draw upon things that I see on those walks whether I'm in the woods or whether I'm walking in the city. So um I like to kind of like work with my surroundings and my environment um yeah like in the neighborhood I live in um there are these like little libraries and I like to stop and like do some bibliomancy if I'm out on a walking meditation. So I really enjoy yeah working with like my my environment to support yeah my self-care um there are certain times of the day that I'm very like adamant on going on these walks. So like the that is very much part of my practice. Gosh and then lately I've been I've been doing a lot of like candle magic I've been working with water a lot on an elemental level um I'm always a I'm always drawn to like a spirit baths and like ritual baths I feel like bathing is such a beautiful and uh ancient practice that is so rooted in self-care and also like our own spiritual magical like energetic hygiene and like um you know practice that can be so so supportive. I've been burning my board a lot um so I've been working with smoke like doing a little smoke scrying and just like in the home and yeah like my practice has been a little bit more um the self-care has been very practical where I've been doing a very big closet clean out so yeah that's been a little bit of the ritual lately is like cleaning my closet so good it's so necessary I love a thorough house clean but that is cultural I love I have been so I've like the winner solstice like I've just been going in on home ritual cleaning releasing yeah what do you have coming up on the horizon that you would like to share with listeners so I have a monthly um class that I teach so yeah I do classes group work and tarot circles like I mentioned on my Patreon so I've been just really loving um yeah doing like the group work lately and I've been moving more into doing some like a little bit of teaching um and then gosh I also do community clinics this is in Seattle Washington so it is more local but I've been doing some community clinics that are um free of charge services for community um yeah so I have my regular consistent monthly offerings um which are my tarot circle on my Patreon just a tarot study um group work and I always do new moon uh group like healing work so you can find me there and then I've been delving into doing a little bit more uh teaching so yeah teaching tarot and teaching just like protection magic is something I'm really passionate about so offering protection work um I have not released it yet but I am planning on um teaching a free class for for folks that is more like digital protection work especially in response to the times that we're in and then you can find me in Seattle Washington um I'm I offer community clinics and we're gonna be having a lot more coming up with the witches temple in Seattle so um soon to be announced um some new moon circles and like some in-person uh community offerings.
SPEAKER_00:That's so exciting I'm gonna have to come back out west and see you. Oh my gosh please do yeah you're always welcome so beautiful and how do people best find you to engage with your work yeah yeah you can find me on Instagram uh opulentwitch I also have a TikTok that I I'm not as active on uh is opulentwitch and then www.opulantwitch.com and then if you want to check out the living altar at the living altar and thelivingaltar.com yeah you can also get the living altar deck through one of our favorite uh shops in Portland Sea Grape Apothecary and yeah so I love them yeah me too yeah they have amazing classes they do yeah yeah listeners should check them out yeah and and please check out all of opulent witches offerings because they are so opulent and you will enjoy I also offer uh one-on-one uh sessions and readings as well yeah absolutely yeah thank you so much for being here it's such a delight to spend some time with you thank you for speaking with us thank you so much for having me it was truly so wonderful you are so lovely thank you thank you thank you so much uh material world can be in the eighth material work that's the line in the material work material world me in the egg material work your body is worse divided in the e material world the inmaterial work the e material world immaterial world is listed by Jessica Richards and Jasmina Montela music by Dia Luna artwork by Lane Friend follow us at Immaterial World Pod on Instagram TikTok and YouTube visit our website at www dot immaterial dashworld dot com or send us an email at immaterial worldpod gmail dot com thank you for being part of our immaterial world welcome to the immaterial world