THE HERO’S JOURNEY with Jezmina Von Thiele and Jessica Richards

In this special episode, we are celebrating the commencement of our digital tarot series.

The Hero’s Journey by Immaterial World is a curated educational tarot experience; a unique visual perspective on each card, meant to inspire the novice as well as the expert, to consider the elements and its core message through nuanced imagery, narration, and sound.

For more about our digital tarot, visit:

www.youtube.com/@ImmaterialWorldPod

www.patreon.com/cw/ImmaterialWorld

Instagram: @immaterialworldpod 

For more details about The Future MPLS mutual aid raffle, visit:

https://thefuturempls.com/collections/events/products/february-16-march-4-minneapolis-rent-relief-raffle

Email: thefuturempls@gmail.com

Instagram: @thefuturempls

Become an Immaterial World supporter!

Hosted by Jessica Richards and Jezmina Von Thiele

For bookings and for more about Jessica visit: www.the12th.house and Instagram: @jessicaxrich 

For bookings and for more about Jezmina visit: www.jezminavonthiele.com and Instagram: @jezmina.vonthiele

Visit our Patreon for a free monthly newsletter

Music and editing by DIA LUNA

Instagram: @dialunamusic

Artwork by Lane Friend 

Instagram: @friendlane

Transcript

Mutual Aid Raffle Announcement

SPEAKER_01 0:00

We have a special note today from our friends at The Future in Minneapolis. They're holding a mutual aid raffle through March 2nd, and it is an amazing and very magical way to show up for the communities in their city and raising money for rent relief. There are incredible prizes from so many witches, from readings to private coaching sessions to books. My goodness, including past guest Erica Feldman and Housewitch. Here's how it works: donate at least$10 to any rent relief fund in Minneapolis or St. Paul. A list of rent relief funds are going to be available via a link in the show notes to bring you to the page to make your choice. You can also adopt a rent at Stand with Minnesota. If you can't decide, Powderhorn Park, Phillips, or Central neighborhoods in Minneapolis and the west side of St. Paul could use help.

Introducing The Hero’s Journey Series

SPEAKER_02 0:56

One entry equals$10 in donated funds. Multiple entries are encouraged with an extra entry thrown in for every$50 in donated funds. So if you donate$100 to a rent relief fund, you get 12 entries to win. Email a screenshot of your receipt to the futurempls at gmail.com by Monday, March 2nd at 11:59 p.m. Pacific Standard Time to make sure your raffle entries are counted. Winners will be contacted on Wednesday, March 4th via an email by the future. Winners will be chosen at random, but if you don't get contacted, feel a little glow that you helped people stay in their homes. So this is really a win-win. We will leave it to fate which item you win. Please visit the link now to find your relief fund and support Minneapolis. For questions and additional ways to help, visit the future mpls.com, linked in the show notes. This week we have a special episode for you. We are celebrating the commencement of our digital tarot series, The Hero's Journey, which has gone live on our Instagram, YouTube, and Patreon channels.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

The Hero's Journey by Immaterial World is a curated educational tarot experience, a unique visual perspective on each card meant to inspire the novice as well as the expert to consider the elements and its core message through nuanced imagery, narration, and sound.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

We hope you enjoy our chat about what inspired the series and what's next. And of course, if you love Tarot, please like, comment, and share widely. And if you're a creator or a brand or a retailer that would like to collaborate on a future card or astrological sign or talisman, let us know. We'd love to hear from you. Hello, my friend. Hello. Fancy meeting you here. So fancy. You know, uh, we're doing something interesting and different today. And when we're recording this, it hasn't happened yet, but when it's out in the world, we'll have a new project that we will have just launched. And I'm really excited about that. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Um, so for our listeners, uh, by when this episode comes up, um you'll have seen our first tarot video as part of a a project that we're doing called The Heroes Journey. Um, it's going to be an ongoing series of video tarot cards that explore the themes through video and sound. And it's actually part of a launch of what we're calling our creative container. So we wanted to chat through that a bit today. Um, where do we begin? Shall we talk about why the heroes journey?

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Yeah, I mean, it's one of my favorite perspectives on understanding the major arcana of the tarot. So for anyone who might not be familiar, uh tarot decks are more or less usually the same. Sometimes artists might add their flair, maybe they add an extra card or two, but generally you have 22 major arcana, and then you have um, oh, my my brain like left the 56? It's 56, yeah. Thank you. I'm like 78, and then okay, so 78 cards total. 56 minor arcana, 22 major arcana. The major arcana are like themes and archetypes. And whenever you get a major arcana and a spread that maybe you do for yourself, it's like almost think of it as like a heavier card. Whereas the minor arcana, which are like the Queen of Cups or the Three of Wands, those are more like daily experiences, they're more mundane. The major arcana starts with the fool who is a fool, but it's also our hero. And it's the number zero, which is infinite possibility, and it's also emptiness. And so I really love the um, it's a Buddhist saying, it's a Taoist saying, but the idea that when you come to something, I'm paraphrasing um believing you know nothing, that's how you learn everything. And if you already believe you know something, you will not learn anything. And so the fool represents that sort of divine sense of openness and emptiness and possibility, and then goes on a journey from there, ending with the 22nd card, the world. And all of the cards in between represent stages on the hero's journey or the fool's journey, depending on what you want to call it, and they're very similar to the kinds of arcs that we see in folklore, and folk stories from cultures all over the world tend to have certain things in common and obstacles and triumphs and learning opportunities, and so it's such a fun way to make the tarot relatable to our lives because folk stories and folklore and the concept of the hero's journey comes out of human experience and human culture. So I'm excited.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Would you say that it's true that if someone's doing a spread for themselves or getting a reading, that when the major archon, you know, I cannot say anything with the R's in the middle, major arcana comes up, that it might represent a greater life change that's unfolding for them or like a part of their being is maybe go undergoing some transformation versus, like you said, the minor or more of the day-to-day activities. Is it like buckle up buttercup kind of energy?

SPEAKER_01 7:59

It absolutely can be. It can also represent something that you've been going through for a long time. Sometimes people will talk about cards that chase them. And if you have a major arcana chasing you, I would say like this might be a really big theme in your life. Versus if you have a minor arcana chasing you, it might be more like the things you're doing day to day or maybe ought to be doing. Or like go go eat something.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yeah, drink a glass of water.

unknown 8:24

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Yeah. And so it can be really interesting to note when major arcanas come up in a reading, where they're placed. So I always think about their placement if I'm doing a reading for myself or someone. And sometimes if I'm trying to figure out what the overarching narrative is with someone's reading, I might um keep pulling cards until I hit a major arcana. Like if I've already pulled a couple outcome cards and it feels cloudy, I'll just keep going until I get a major arcana. Cause I'm like, listen, what is the deal? Like, what do we really need to understand?

When Big Archetypes Chase You

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Oh wow, I never knew that. So you want to anchor it into some like like solid energy. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And I love that you're kind of oscillating a little bit between the fool's journey, which it's more traditionally called, and the hero's journey. And I think when we started, you know, um, putting together this project and talking about what it would look like and what it would feel like, we went with the theme of the hero's journey being the larger name of the project. Because we imagine that if you are going through this time of self-curiosity and going through exercises to get to know yourself better, that like you are your hero and you are on this path. And learning the tarot through the different um media that we're going to start to produce would be contributing to that that self-exploration and that curiosity. Um starting with the the sub oh, go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Also, as a former English professor, I love the hero's journey because it's more literary.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Oh, wow. I'm gonna sound so stupid right now. Where where is that from? Is that from something?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

It's mostly, I mean, it's I'm sure that there's a literary reference that when I explain my take on it, someone will be like, but what about this? So please, please comment and let us know what I forgot. But um, I think of it from the perspective of someone who loves folklore, and there is like a whole folklore matrix of different themes that tend to show up across cultures. And the hero's journey is one of those big archetypes or themes that's just like almost universal, which is so interesting. Sometimes it can be very reductive to say that there's a universal theme because, of course, every culture has its nuance, but it is something that is relatable and shows up on stories all over the world, the idea of the hero on a journey.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

I love it. You know, it's so funny that we're starting the episode talking about the major arcana because we're starting the project with a minor arcana card, the seven of cups. Uh, tell me what the seven of cups means to you.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

It's so funny because um I feel like the seven of cups is a card that whenever I see it, I'm like, oh man, I'm I'm going through it. I'm having a day. I'm confused.

unknown 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

So for me, I think the Seven of Cups can be a very helpful card. Like all of the cards are meant to be helpful. And I'm one of those people who doesn't believe that there are good or bad cards. They're all interesting, complex. They have tips and tricks, and they have um struggles and um suggestions and blessings. And one blessing of this card can be if you are going through it and you're feeling really upset when the Seven of Cups comes up, it's like, oh honey, you might not be seeing this clearly, or like you might be stuck in your own perspective.

Why Start With Seven Of Cups

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Yeah, yeah. And I remember that when I really felt like I turned a corner in learning tarot, it was because of this card. And I realized that when I was pulling it or when it was chasing me, as as they say, that I would be going through times of like OCD flare-ups. Like I would really be so in my thoughts and like truly detached from reality. And I remember reaching out to you and being like, Do you ever think that this card could be this? And you were like, Oh yeah, for sure, you like are understanding tarot. And I was like, Yes. It was like such my, it was like such a like a victorious moment for me. And I think that when we're talking about creating this media, creating these videos, that those are the nuances that maybe are getting missed. You know, there's like all of this um education about tarot online. If you look up a card, there's like plenty of things to read. There's all these essays, there's all these websites, and it's just words and words and words. And for me, the separate to like the separation of truly understanding the card versus just seeing it and like, oh, it means delusion. Oh, it means that you are like escaping reality. Well, if it's coming up in the context that I was understanding it or feeling it, it's like, I'm not necessarily choosing that delusion. That delusion lives inside my brain. And this is more of a gentle, like, okay, this is not yours to carry, and you can separate from these thoughts or from these false realities. And I think that that kind of nuance is part of what's shaping what we're creating here with our platform.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Yeah, I think it's so interesting to think about all of the different ways a card can express different angles of the same idea. Sometimes this card for me, when I'm reading for myself or others, might feel like your anxiety is warping the way you see yourself or the world. Other times it maybe it comes up in a sit, like in the position of your environment and the person that's asking about a relationship that they're in. And it's like their partner is gaslighting the shit out of them. It's one possibility that I've seen.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

I definitely don't want that as an environment card. That just gave me like a chill when you said that.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah. And I've totally I've seen that in toxic work situations before where it's like you're doing your best, but the people around you are not helping you see the world clearly because they're feeding you a lot of nonsense. And sometimes I've also seen it come up for um people who are either leaning a lot into substances, and sometimes the devil can also show that in other cards too. But this is one of those um, are you using altering substances in a way that is no not no longer helping you? Um, and sometimes other people can be altering substances if you have a kind of obsession about someone you might not be seeing the world clearly, or if you have a friend who's just really colors the way that you see the world in a helpful way. Or sometimes this card can be a brutal optimism that blots out reality. It doesn't just have to be hope, uh fear, it can also be hope. And so it's really dealer's choice when you're looking at the seven of cups. It's a good time to ask yourself, are there any ways in which I um don't understand what's happening? What where's the confusion coming from? Is it something I'm doing? Is it something I'm using? Is it someone I'm around? Is it a situation I'm in? Is it my brain? I have a pretty um spectacular dissociative disorder myself. And the seven of cups definitely points out when I am in that place. So it really does urge you to look deeper. And sometimes by its very nature, the seven of cups is difficult to distinguish. It's like asking yourself, in what ways am I deluded right now? You may not know. So um, it can also be a good reminder to check in with others for a reality check who you trust.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Yeah, I could listen to you talk about all of the cards like this for hours and hours and hours. It's like, oh yes, that is what it means. Yes, and I never thought of it that way. I love that you're taking your words and condensing them much smaller and writing some more concise uh verbiage for our video cards. Do you want to talk about uh the Seven of Cups language and what you put together and you know how you got there and why why the words that you chose to get there in 18 seconds, right? Like all of that that you were just saying is so important, but you got us to to such a more condensed place.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah, it was helpful for this card to actually start with really weird poetry and um get into more of the feeling of how things felt. And I was thinking about themes like playing Bloody Mary in the bathroom at summer party.

Distortion, Anxiety, And Reality Checks

SPEAKER_02 17:05

My gosh, we all had the same childhood.

unknown 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

And um, thinking about being perceived was something that came up a lot. I also thought about the biblical um idiom. I I don't know if I'm using the word idiom right right now, but um through a glass darkly, the idea that your perception of the world or in the original source, like spirituality, is somehow muddied or muddled. And I'm obsessed with that because you know, I thought that you made that up. Yeah, I wish I did.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

You're a genius.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

But yeah, so I was thinking a lot about these popular um pop culture references as well as um just experiences of distortion. And I was thinking about a line that I had put in my poem about my mom. I'm playing with my medication because that feels so seven of cups, and boy was she. And um and yeah, and then I got so into that that I forgot that I wasn't actually writing a poem. And when I sent that over to you, you're like, let's go back to the original plan. And I was like, oh yeah, of course. And then I was able to distill if I could say really quickly to a client who drew this card, what do you need to understand about the Seven of Cups? Like if you just pulled it on your own and I don't have any context, what might be helpful as a jumping off point? I came up with something from there.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

I love this, and I think that as we were creative concepting and really imagining, you know, taking it very literally, um, coming up with seven different cups and and what they would each represent, and having nods to the original writer Smith Wade deck, um but also giving it a very immaterial world spin. Um, I think we had some really fun concepts that we came up with. And I I think that what I love about what we've put together is how whimsical it is, right? There these are some pretty dark themes, these are some pretty um serious themes in this card, but we have cotton candy and we have, you know, uh like a snake that's coiling around the glass, but he's covered in jewels. And so I think it takes it to this very modern context that feels like us. Um and really the the thought of starting with this card too was starting with non-human imagery. That felt like a good starting off point, which we've talked about a lot. Uh, a lot of new decks, a lot of modern decks are not necessarily using humans in the way that they have in the past.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, if um folks haven't heard our episode with Lindsay Mack, you might want to tune into our conversation with them because I had some really interesting thoughts about that. But I like the idea of uh, you know, maybe we won't do this with every card, but I like the idea of exploring non-human imagery as much as we can or make sense to us because it does help people see themselves in the card more clearly. And it also Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And it there's also just a an invitation of doing something different, which was really the whole reason we wanted to do this. I mean, I love that we are trying a different approach to divination education. I think that not everybody can always really get a lot out of reading a lot about the meanings of the card. They kind of have to try different ways of approaching it. And yeah, so we have our tarot song association game that you came up with that really speaks to.

Writing The 18‑Second Script

SPEAKER_02 20:53

It's that is really people are really enjoying that. So it's just been so fun to play that with the guests too.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

And it's crazy what people are coming up with. I love it. Yeah, it's so fun. And then, you know, then we get to play with memes and things like that. Um, yeah, I was wondering if you wanted to share more about your inspiration with coming up with these short videos with some voiceover to help people explore tarot in a new way.

Visual Concepts And Whimsy

SPEAKER_02 21:21

I think when I first started to learn tarot, it is so goddamn overwhelming. Like the thought of knowing the nuances of 78 cards is it's a lot. And not to be reductive, but I did have the thought in the beginning, like, oh, you know, I've always been an English girly and not a math girly, so I'm gonna like tarot and like be better at it than astrology. And you know, I don't need to be a math girly to still be super into astrology. There's stories in there too that that can be extracted. Um, but as I was learning, you know, going back to this idea of like, okay, I'm working on one card a Day. I'm pulling one card, then I'm going online, then I'm writing about it. I'm journaling about the imagery that I see, the colors that I see, what it's making me feel. Then I would be going into three card spreads and like starting to put these stories together. And it was just word salad everywhere, right? Like I have all of my journals like full of all this writing. And it's great because for me, the way I learn and the way that my brain retains information is to read it, to write it, to, you know, kind of like reinforce over and over and over. But there is something for me when I see things. And I think that even with my career, being in production, being a creative, touching things, making things, like that's actually how I learn and how I can express myself so much. And I was thinking about immaterial worlds when we first concepted what we wanted to do. It was never just going to be a podcast. We really wanted that to be the first spoke in a wheel that was going to have so many extensions that explored curiosity and allowed people to be really comfortable in that exploration. And so for me, it didn't necessarily make sense that we would just continue to write or to speak. Like there should be some visuals. And so this was a really natural extension to building our platform is to create these videos and to take your poetry and like really just give all of these alternate forms of expressing the card so that people can truly learn. Because whatever it's going to be, maybe it's going to be your poem and someone's going to read that and go, oh yeah, I know exactly what this card is. Like that's going to hit them. Maybe it's like seeing the dissolving of cotton candy into a glass and watching it change colors. Like something will resonate with you. And it might not be reading those, those websites over and over again or those books. And this gets you a little bit more interactive. And I I really love that. And I think that it also takes the edge off of it, if I can say that. And you really do have to do so much work and you really do have to do so much practice and read for others and read for yourself. And there just needs to be sort of like a softness and an ease to it. And I think that it just makes it so much more approachable to do it in this way. And I think we're going to have a lot of fun. And we've had so many conceptual ideas with different partners and talking about how we want to express this. And ultimately, this is not just for us. Like we really want to be creating this for other people as well. And there's so many products in the world that talk about astrology, you know, there's a zodiac necklace, or there's makeup, or there's services or retailers. And I think that for people to understand divination and how it applies to them, like, wouldn't it make you so much more excited to connect with a product if you like really felt connected to the concept of your sign or of a tarot card? And like it just makes you know more about yourself and express yourself in a different, nuanced way. So yeah, I I really am just so excited, as you can hear. I love getting jazzed about projects, and I feel like this is something that I've wanted to do for so long. And it's just perfect for us to be launching this right now.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

I know I'm so excited. I was wondering if you could share more about what it was like to figure out what the seven cups were going to look like, like what you were doing on set with them, because I wasn't able to be there on set because it was Valentine's Day weekend, and I it's basically my second Halloween as a fortune teller. So I was booked and blessed. But and you were very booked and blessed doing this in in the studio. So I it just the um the cups themselves are very intriguing, and yeah, be curious about where these ideas came from.

Non‑Human Imagery And Access

SPEAKER_02 26:19

I had such a blast doing this, and you know, shout out to my producer partner, Brian, who uh at IGS Creative, we do a lot of production projects together. And this is something that when I approached him, I said, you know, kind of sometimes when you're doing these projects, you have to work backwards from the tools that you have. And the original concept was that the cups would be spinning and they would be changing into something to really personify that that alchemy, that that how things look maybe is not the reality of what they actually are, or things are changing, or things are mysterious. And so we did first concept, you know, what's seven different cups, which was the super fun part of it too, is like thinking of different ways that cups exist in the world. And we were just thinking about within those cups, how can they change? Now we did go into the original card, or I shouldn't say the original card, I should say the writer Wade Smith card, and took the idea of the different themes that were represented in each of those seven cups, and then we've reflected it back in some different way. Um, you know, the snake is probably the nod that's the most original and and then owed to to the original design, but everything else represents some other piece of deception or alchemy um or mystery um or delusion. Um, you know, it and so it was so funny to imagine like how they would either combust or they would change or they would break down. Um, I absolutely love Diet Coke. It is definitely one of my like personal signatures in life. So I liked the idea that Diet Coke, which is probably the most toxic substance like on the planet, is going to be like combusting, but then from its combustion, it's going to be like growing flowers. Like there's something beautiful and natural that's going to be coming out of it. And I think too, when you and I were talking about what would be happening with the cups, it was like after each one, we just want someone to go, huh? Huh? Like it just kind of doesn't make any sense, kind of like that card feels. Um, the idea of like that beautiful, cloudy scape that the original card has that all of the cups are sitting on. We like put that into the production through the cotton candy imagery, like the thought that the cloud would sort of fall apart and you know, you see the cotton candy like uh melt and turn the glass a different color. But everything really came back to to sort of address and to honor that card and to to make it feel very immaterial, world-coded, as we like to say, um, that whimsicality so that you can understand that there's beauty in the breakdown, but then there's also this feeling of uncomfortability with it as well. That it's just not as it seems. Um it was really, really such a fun exercise to put this together.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yeah, it has been so much fun to piece this all together. And I also wanted to note that we were, you know, creating this from pretty much February 13th, but before that, but the thing started in earnest on February 13th and like moving over the next week. February 16th was Pamela Coleman Smith's birthday. Like, there are no fucking like coincidences in this world. It is so wild, yes. Yeah, and for anyone who doesn't know, I would love to take a little moment because you know, she created one of the most popular decks she illustrated, what has been called the Rider Wait deck, um, more correctly known as the Rider Waite Smith, or I like to say Smith Rider Waite or Waitsmith, you know, there's but you gotta put her name in there basically. And with some respect on that woman's name, yes. Oh my gosh, yeah. And I mean, she was left off of the the deck because she was a black woman and this was created. Um it looks like the deck with Smith's illustrations was first published in England by Ryder in December of 1909. And so she was left off. And a little bit about Pamela Coleman Smith, who was an absolute badass. Her nickname was Pixie. Yeah. And y'all, if you don't know what she looks like, you should look up a photo of her. Her portrait is absolutely gorgeous, and she looks like such a pixie. And she was uh Jamaican and English, and she was an artist, illustrator, writer, publisher, and a cultist. She's best known for illustrating this deck, but she also um illustrated over 20 books. She wrote two collections of Jamaican folklore, edited two magazines, and ran the Green Sheaf Press, a small press focused on women writers. And she really made the imagery of the minor arcana more or less on her own. She was given instructions, especially for the major arcana, of what things needed to look like, but she was given a lot more creative license. And so some of the images that we think of as the iconic tarot images really came from her. And so I love always taking a moment to just honor how spectacular she is and how much she contributed to this.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Yeah, and I I find that or I as I was learning tarot, some of the things that really stuck out to me from her illustrations. I mean, there's like so many crazy details I can get into. I love the Empress card because she's wearing the crown of 12 stars. And for me, as a Catholic, you know, she's it's the virgin of the apocalypse, right? And there's something so sacred about what's happening in that card that's even beyond. And when I think about the level of detail and the things that you can keep uncovering and keep learning about what she created and how and and what shaped her her vision, it's really stunning. It's it's really, really so special.

Learning Tarot Beyond Text

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Yeah, and I mean that's not to, you know, downplay. There are definitely themes in this tarot deck in particular that um are problematic, but we can still uplift uh Pamela Coleman Smith uh in her artwork and also recognize that I as I think some of the more pop problematic themes are more in the major arcana. But the I love the Empress card. But um yeah, so we get we get to um acknowledge both, basically. It's uh it's a yes and it's a yes and things are complicated. Um yeah, we maybe we'll have an episode. I have just the person in mind who's more qualified to speak on that than I am, but I can't wait to hear about that.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Um you know, I think that this is an important point that you're bringing up because it goes back to that that feeling of non-human imagery and and wanting to see yourself and your values and and the things that you care about reflected back. And if you're trying to be curious about yourself, it should feel applicable. And I think that what we are doing and what we're working towards is is really being more reflective of of the current times that we're in and and uh themes and and uh making everyone feel very seen is important.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Yeah, and I mean it's interesting because it's an imperfect journey always, which is so uncomfortable, and learning is uncomfortable as well as glorious and exciting and thrilling. And so it's nice to be able to explore all of this together, you know, with our listeners, with the guests that we interview, the texts that we interact with, and the art that we make.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Yeah, and I think that this is a good time to say, you know, we we are not on a timetable because time is not linear and does not actually exist. We will be creating as we're going along and as we're inspired, but this is just the beginning of the hero's journey, and we're super excited for it to unfold and and we're going to be revealing a little bit at a time. But if there's any cards that you think that we should explore next, or if you have any ideas of ways that you might want to see them, I think it would be fun to have little conversations about that too. Um yeah, it would be really exciting for the community to get involved.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Yeah, y'all can absolutely comment with thoughts and questions on our Instagram at Immaterial World Pod. But also we have uh a monthly newsletter that we release on Patreon and all the episodes are released through the Patreon. So you can comment on the episodes there, especially if you want more of a private community feeling. You can hop over to our Patreon, which is free at the moment. And um, and you know, also if you enjoy our theme song and the sparkly music um at the outro, you'll be delighted to know that Dia did the music for this card too, for the Seven of Cups video.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Yes, yes, our eternal composer. We love it.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Yeah, so definitely check out dialunamusic.com or dialuna on uh Instagram because she's always posting magical things and can be found on all um wherever you listen to music, all those places. Um and you know, we'll have more to say about our creative container. We're really thinking of this as an opportunity to create a place where people go to learn, to share, to connect, and we'll be rolling out a little bit at a time. So stay tuned.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

Exciting things happening in the immaterial world. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yay, thank you. This was a delight, and we hope you guys enjoy the card. Thank you so much for joining us in the immaterial world. While you're here, we hope you subscribe, rate, and review us on your favorite streaming services. The real magic is in connection and community. Share your favorite episode with friends and come follow us for more on Instagram at Immaterial World Pod and Patreon at patreon.com backslash immaterial world.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

I like to see you shining. Shine shine special kind of magic. Come beat me in the egg material This way as a galaxy galaxy, defying in the inmaterial Inmaterial Work, come beat me in the ematerial world Your mind, your body, and soul delight it in the immaterial world, the immaterial world, the immaterial world.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Immaterial World is hosted by Jessica Richards and Jasmina von Kila. Music and editing by Dia Luna. Artwork by Lane Friend. Follow Immaterial World Pod on Instagram and Patreon at patreon.com backslash immaterial world. You can visit our website at www.immaterial-world.com or email us at Immaterial World Pod at gmail.com Thank you for being part of our immaterial world.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Welcome to the Immaterial World.