#49 - Why Do Some People Seem Like an Obvious Yes… But Still Don’t Move Forward? - With Jonas Wolf (S4)

Have you ever looked at someone you care about and thought, "My work could completely change their life"—yet they still hesitate to take the next step? In this Power Coaching episode, I coach Jonas, a purpose strategist and leadership coach, through one of the biggest challenges heart-led coaches face: knowing when to serve and when to let go. We explore why readiness matters more than potential, how to avoid slipping into the rescuer role, and what it really means to build a premium client journey that empowers people to choose transformation for themselves.

Key Takeaways

⚡ Why premium clients buy from readiness—not because they need convincing.

⚡ How to recognize the difference between serving someone and trying to rescue them.

⚡ Why separating friendship from business creates healthier relationships and stronger client results.

⚡ How a clear premium buyer pathway helps the right people confidently say yes.

About Jonas
Jonas is a purpose strategist and leadership coach who helps leaders navigate life transitions and step into their next chapter of purpose, career, and impact. Based in Bali, he works with leaders across Asia and Europe, drawing on more than a decade of experience in the startup ecosystem.

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Let’s Connect:
👉 Instagram: @aimeedrost | @millionairebreathwork
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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Why do some people look like the perfect client and still they don't move? In today's power coaching episode, I go to Jonas, a purpose strategist and leadership coach, on what to do when someone clearly has the resources, clearly needs the work, and still keeps hesitating. Especially when that person is a friend. We get into this sneaky place, so many caring coaches lose power and sales. Trying to make someone ready before they actually are. You'll hear us unpack the difference between serving and rescuing. How to spot who is truly ready for change, and why overnurturing the wrong person can quietly drain your confidence, your energy, and your leadership. If you've ever found yourself giving too much in the DMs, circling around a maybe, or wondering whether you should keep following up, this episode will help you stop chasing potential and start selling to readiness. Welcome to the Bold Expansion Podcast. You are here because you know your business is meant for more. I'm your host, Ame Drost, and this is where you'll learn how to make more money, create transformational offers, and step into your truth as a leader. Through premium strategy, identity work, and my signature method, Millionaire Breath Work. Each week you'll get the strategy and the shifts to expand your wealth, your impact, and your freedom. This is Bold Expansion. Are you ready? Hello, Jonas. So good to have you here today for a power coaching session. I would love for you to introduce yourself to the audience. I know that we have worked together before, so I know quite a lot about you, but please share who are you, who do you serve, and let's start from there.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Awesome. I mean, thank you for having me. It's a big pleasure. It's been a pleasure to work with you through the PBE program. And yeah, love what you do and all the good things you put out there, offerings and content. So it's a pleasure to be on your podcast. I've been in the startup space for over 10 years, worked with startups, helping to launch startups and grow startups for a really long time, and then pivoted more and more first into the founder coaching space, and then opened up more broadly to helping leaders go through life transitions and step into their next chapter of career purpose and impact. And I do that out of Bali and also virtually with leaders mainly in Asia and Europe at this point.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Amazing. And what brought you here today? What is your question that you have for me?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

I yeah, I've been wondering about that quite a bit, and I wanted to hear your point of view on that, right? There's some people around us, in my case, some people that I've known for years, and I know them quite well. I've seen them, and it seems like that either a group offer or one-on-one offer suits them incredibly well. And I know it would help them with a big breakthrough and transformation in the life stage where they are right now, and help them to actually go where they want to go. And when you talk to them, there is hesitation, or there are the doubts, or there's the fear. And I'm like, ah, I just like I know I would have been so grateful with this offer at that time. And so I wonder what's your take on that? Is it too much of a friend's relationship, or what is coming up for you at first?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

I love that. There's a few things that we can talk about in different directions to look at this. And we are recording this now on June 16th, and actually, today a podcast episode went out about how does it come that some people are in your space for a very long time and they are warm, they're engaged, there's something that they resonate with your work, but they don't buy or they take months or years to actually go there with you. So for the listeners, you can go there and check that out for a deep dive. In short, it could be that they are not really sold to. So even though you see the value of what you're giving and how you're bringing that to them, it's not landing. So for them, it might not have the same impact. You know, because you've been through it, you've designed the offer, you understand your own language around it. But then when it comes to someone else seeing that as well, people don't buy because of the value in your offer. They buy because of perceived value, which means that you need to understand their language and you need to explain it in a way that it can actually enter their world. And there's a big difference between lower-priced offers where you can kind of get away with a fast buyer decision. You can compare it in the supermarket to just grabbing a snack that is at the checkout, and it's a fast decision. You don't need to think about it a lot. But with the work that you do, that we do in the premium space with transformations, it is not a clear yes-no decision. There's a lot more that goes into that, and that's what we build out, and that's what I teach people to build a premium buyer pathway where these people that you're talking about can actually walk that path and come to the same conclusion as you. That this offer is exactly what they need in that moment, that you are the person for them, and that is when they are actually sold to. So selling does not mean the highlight on a sales call where someone makes a final decision. It's the whole pathway up until that moment. And the better you become in selling, the better you become in creating that pathway, the faster someone else can make that decision. And of course, there's people that land into your world and they're ready to make a buyer decision within a split second because of what they've lived before. Maybe they've been talking to another coach or mentor that does something similar and it didn't fully click for them yet, but it helped them be on this tipping point to be ready to say yes to you, which is then an easy sale. But if someone is not there yet, they need more from you. They need to have that structure, that that architect, as I call it, the premium authority architecture for you to hold them. And it doesn't just happen when they say yes to the container, the whole sales process is also a container. Because with premium offers, you mentioned that they have some fear, they have some resistance. I used to teach years ago that a premium offer needs to feel like a full-body yes. I'm not teaching that anymore because it's simply not true. Because when someone is making a buyer decision that will change their lives forever, because that's what premium offers do, that's what a transformative offer does, that's what your offer does, because you're helping people in a pivotable, meaningful moment to change who they are, how they show up. And that means letting go of the past version of you, letting go of that part of your identity, and that comes with fear, that comes with grief, that comes with saying goodbye to the old version of you. So it is normal in a sales process that not everybody is immediately a yes, that not everybody immediately sees the value. Then we can build our pathway to make that process easier and faster. So that's one side of the story. How is that landing for you? Does that make sense when you think of the people that you had in mind?

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yeah, it's that's what I mentioned earlier, also with let's talk about your dating terminology, like being in the friend zone, right? Which I think is also very applicable for like selling, right? Because there's there are many people also in our social environment, right? In my case, I lived in five different countries, right? And been in quite a few communities have a fairly large network and and different circles of friends, right, in different domains. And it's also an I feel slightly different dynamic when you're selling to people who are also friends, right? And then yeah, some of them I think it's a difference as well as okay, what is the price level, right? Because a friend is, I think, also way easier saying yes to a $200 offer than to a $2,000 or $3,000 offer, because both sides know that if something goes wrong with a $3,000 offer, that might also impact friendship, right? So this is also a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

I I want to uh give you some feedback here. Because what I'm hearing you say is that you don't have full conviction in your offer that it is working. Underneath what you explained to me is I can sell to a friend if it is only 200, 300 euros, because then I won't feel bad if it's not working out for them.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Yes, and no. As I've been hesitating really long time from the from different things around the higher ticket premium space, as as I experienced myself and quite a few others who have been burned in by the space, right? And I know there's still some residue left in me that wants to have more lower ticket offers. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Yeah, so it comes from a really good place of not wanting to burn anyone and also knowing what it's like to have gone through that yourself. But if you remove that from it, it does come down to not fully believing that your offer can hold them. Yes, there's people on the internet that burn people, and there's people that burn themselves by how they show up in containers, but this is also understanding your dynamic in how you're serving your clients. You cannot save them. And this is another conversation I want to have with you because yes, you can create a buyer pathway where someone can really see themselves in your offer, they start to trust you, they understand that this is for them, and that's amazing. And there is also when someone is just not ready yet. And this can come up more often with friends or people that you've vaguely met because more about them, more things than you would know from a stranger. And a stranger on the internet, when they find you, they approach you, they come into your world. But with a friend, sometimes you see them and you see them struggling and you wish that you could help them because you wish the best for them. I honestly love working with my friends, and a lot of my clients become friends because I believe in my offer. I believe so much in my offer that I would love my friends to experience the same. One of my closest friends that actually became a really close friend in the process. We just recorded another podcast episode that is also launching very soon. She hired me, but she didn't hire me on the spot. The moment that she met me, we weren't friends yet. She wanted to become my friend first. And I was open to that. I was just back in Tenerife and we connected, and it was beautiful how the friendship developed. But in that process, I did not sell to her. I was just being myself and being embodied in what I do. And she then came closer to me and investigated my world and tried out some low-ticket offers. And then after a few months, she invested in me. And within four and a half months, she made 26 and a half thousand pounds of being in my world. Yeah. And it's because of how she's been showing up, and it's because she was ready, not because I forced her to hire me, but because she made this internal decision of I'm gonna do this, this is the right time, I'm fully gonna show up. And if your friends do not make that internal decision, because I have a lot of friends in my world that should be in my programs, to be fair, they would benefit so much from it. And I see them struggling on the sideline, and I hate it for them. I would I feel my heart hurts for that, and for them not to see that this can change everything. Just in a few months, their life can be completely different. But it's not for me to convince them of that. I can show up the best that I can, I can create this buyer pathway, I can be out there on my socials, but I'm not gonna intrude their personal lives. I'm not gonna bring that energy of sales into our friendship dynamic. And this is something I'm very structured in, which I think not everybody does. I separate my WhatsApp and my Instagram, I separate conversations. I see you're laughing. You message me on Instagram. We've met on in Bali and we've met in person, so I also feel more connected to you than someone that I've never met in person. So I'm not gonna say that you cannot send me a message on WhatsApp, but I do make the separation of, hey, on WhatsApp I'm for personal connections and you can message me here if you want to connect on a personal level. But on Instagram, we're doing more business. So also when I'm inviting them, I'm not missing mixing an invite for a free masterclass in a WhatsApp conversation. I'm also not sending this message to them when I know that they're not in the headspace. And this is where I'm holding back a little bit compared to strangers because I know a little bit more about where they're at, and I don't want to jeopardize the friendship, especially if it's a new friendship being built. So for my friends, I do want them to be more proactive in wanting to be in my world. So that's a little bit of the different dynamic there, but it's more an energetic difference in the connection, in the relationship, because when you say people really need my work, but they cannot see it yet, there's a lot of fear. There's different stages where it makes sense to hold space for them, and other stages where you just let them be. And that takes some time and some nuance to understand who is where and who do I want to put my energy and effort into. Because, of course, you're a coach, you want to help people, and this is a pitfall for a lot of coaches and healers, because you come from this pure heart of wanting to serve, of wanting to help people have a better life. But not everybody wants to be helped, and that's something to understand. Because if you speak to the wrong people, if you're trying to convince people of your service, then you're putting your energy elsewhere, you're not centered anymore, you're focused on the other person. This is something that a lot of people do in the industry. They focus on someone who's really not ready yet. And there's a big difference there. My friend who signed on and had this amazing journey with me, she really took the steps herself. I never pushed her in whatever way to make that decision. But at the point that she was showing up in my workshops, that she was actively filling in the application form for my mastermind, I started fighting for her because she gave me that consent of I want this, but I'm scared. And that's a different energy than yeah, maybe someday I would like to have a bigger income, but yeah, it's not my priority right now. It's a very different energy. So you need to be more sensitive to that and start to read friends and family like that. Also, people in your audience, to be fair, because there's probably a lot of people in your audience that are warm, they're showing up, they're showing up for your free things. Maybe they buy the lower price things, but they're not really ready to make a bigger investment, to jump into the bigger program. And it's very much the same as with a friendship. There's just less of the energetic relationship that you have with them, there's less projection, probably. There's two concepts that I want to share with you that have helped me a lot. The first one is the drama triangle. Have you heard of that one?

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Not really. Like name-wise, yeah, but it's like, yeah, I don't know exactly what it means.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

I just looked it up before our call because I know the drama triangle, I know how it works, but I now know that it's called the Karpman drama triangle. So for anybody listening, you can look it up. I think if you type in drama triangle, you already get it. Basically, it's this triangle with three archetypes that you can be in. It's the victim, the rescuer, and the persecutor. It's different energies to be in. And as the coach, especially as the people pleaser coach, is the one who wants to save everyone, type of coach, you are the rescuer. And more than you would like, you're probably stepping into that space. And it took me quite some time, especially the first two years of being a coach, where I was definitely showing up as the rescuer, and where I was giving family, very close by family, free handouts. And I was giving them access to my courses for free. What in those moments I think everybody listening can resonate. These people don't show up, they are not as grateful. Very rarely I've done an actual exchange where I could see the level of commitment that I see with my actual clients. And that's why I actually don't really do exchanges, because most of the time it means someone is not ready. And the only moment that I do an exchange, that I'm open to talking about an exchange, if that person is someone that I would hire myself anyway. And that person has the same for me, and that it's not just a handout of, oh, you're convenient, it's close by, someday I would love to do this type of work. No, there needs to be the urgency, there needs to be the level of commitment. And if it's not there, then you're in this drama triangle, the rescuer and the victim, and your client shows up differently. They show up in the way that they need a lot of hand holding, they need a lot of comfort, they need a lot of you telling them what to do instead of them taking action anyway. This is also what I teach on in how I show up with messaging, empowering messaging. Because when you use pain point marketing, you recreate this dynamic of the rescuer and the victim. You're literally telling them there's so much wrong with you, you cannot figure this out on your own. You need to hire me, or else your whole life is hopeless. That's what pain point marketing does. And that's simply not true. Not for me, not for my clients, because I hold my clients to a standard of being in their power. If you cannot activate your own power, then working with you is gonna drain my energy. It's gonna make me show up less in my spaces for other people. So there's this speed spot of who comes into my world, like the dynamic of rescuer and victim. If I notice that in a connection with someone, I'm not gonna let them into my spaces until that is resolved. So that dynamic, do you recognize that with people in your world, with maybe the friends and family that you had in mind that should be in your spaces or the leads that have been in your world for longer than you would like without taking action?

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Yeah, I think the first thing you mentioned before the drama triangle landed quite a bit when you spoke about like just to have more, even more structure to the you call it a pathway, right? And that people like that they self-select, right? That they show they are ready, right? And then again, then we can come in and help them to make that decision for the final purchase, yeah, their decision, their commitment, right? Because there are some small obstacles, right? I've had them before, and it is good to be sold, to be guided through to something that really moves the needle, right? So that landed for sure. And yeah, the second piece about the yeah, the drama triangle, I think it's all coaches, even being years in that, there's always some residue to that because there's always somebody you can still help, right? And I think this is like I said, it's the hard posture, right? But then again, you can only help people when they want to be helped, right? There's an example where even Jesus asks a man, What do you want from me? And I forgot, was he blind or was he crippled? I want to see. And so your faith has healed you, right? So it's like the person needs to know what they want, right? Otherwise, it's like even let's say, yeah, like even we would bring them a huge miracle, right? If they don't want it, then how can there be a result? And people gotta realize that on their own.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Yeah, so if someone is really comfortable being the victim, you're not gonna rescue them out of that because they're gonna co-create, they're gonna recreate that over and over again. And that's also what you create by being more in the rescuer seat. And to really For me, when I started to see this, like how this shows up when you're with a client, you take them on because they really need you, and without you, it they cannot succeed. That's really how you feel internally. I've felt that before with clients. These clients often don't show up. They pay, they don't show up, even if it's premium. Doesn't matter. That's also where I separate high ticket and premium. To me, premium clients, they show up, they're committed. It doesn't even mean that they're the richest people in the audience, it means that they are committed and that they put in the work and that they are someone who can be guided and who wants the outcome. If they don't even want that, like sometimes that happens, they end up in your space. But this is also something you can already filter out with the right messaging because it's just a waste of your time and a waste of their time. And I truly do believe that if those people end up in your space, there's a lesson then there for them to be learned. And I do not enjoy hosting that lesson, so I try to avoid it. But if someone comes into my world and that dynamic comes up, I am not gonna take on the role of rescuer. I'm gonna hold them to their highest light, to their highest standard, because I can see that they have their own power. They don't need me for that. Because if they would need me for being in their power, that puts a lot of pressure on me. And it also removes their power because they can only have it when I'm around, which is not the dynamic I want to create. So, yeah, this is something to look out for.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, we equip people, right? And it we help to remove certain mindset or external roadblocks, right? And but they gotta truly want to walk this journey, otherwise, it's one step, one step, one step.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Yeah, and what happens then is that when they get results, they can celebrate and they can make you on this pedestal, but when they don't, they take you off the pedestal and make you the one that cost everything. And that can be a very heavy client. And that's also where when you mentioned that you have been burned, a lot of people have been burned. And yes, there are people that just show up and create containers where you automatically get burnt because they're not in integrity, they're not delivering what they say they're gonna deliver. Other people have clear containers and are very clear on what they're gonna deliver, and still, people in those containers get burned because. They let themselves be. They let themselves be burned by not actually looking at okay, is this the right mentor for me? Is this the right investment? And I would love to say that I've never had anybody in my spaces who wasn't happy with what I provided. But that's not true. There have been people that were in my courses that didn't understand what they said yes to, and I thought they did. I do my best to explain to them this is what you're getting, these are the deliverables, these are the structure. And some people just really do not pay attention and they're not reading and they're just jumping in. And sometimes I read that as a sign, like this person is ready, they want to change. I cannot read their minds to a level that I can see themselves better than they can see themselves. Sometimes I can, though. And sometimes I do not let these people into my spaces because they're not ready and it's not in service of them. But occasionally it does happen that someone comes into my world and still tries to play that rescuer victim. And I used to go with them in that story, and now I don't. There's no attachment. I can clearly state these are, and that also comes with having a clear container, right? Because when you are clear on the container that you shaped and the transformation that you deliver and the client results that you've had, and that you see that it works and that you're putting in your best within the boundaries because we're not overstretching ourselves either, I can go to bed and sleep peacefully because I know I've done exactly what I said I was gonna do in a way that I can feel proud of that. And of course, I'm not I if someone is not showing up, I'm still gonna try and see if I can support them better. But I'm gonna do it within those boundaries because I'm not gonna play that game of victim and rescuer. So for anybody listening and thinking about hiring me, it is radical responsibility and make a good decision. And of course, I'm gonna help you make that decision in the right way, but then it also comes down to how are you willing to show up and are you paying attention and are you being realistic about how I can support you? Because what I'm talking about here is not average people that come into my world because even people that are not advanced in business yet, they can blow up, they can be so receptive of the strategies, take massive, messy action, get insane results. What I'm talking about here is the victim that doesn't show up to calls and then complains about not getting personalized support, that shows up to a call but has not prepared anything and then expects me to do a miracle with how we're showing up in the space, right? This it occasionally it does happen. And it doesn't really happen for my mastermind spaces because there I have a bigger vetting process and I know I need to keep myself sane for that. But in the group programs and sometimes in the VIP option of the group programs, which is also a little taster, can we work together on a deeper level? It does show up sometimes. And these people in Victim, they will make me feel bad about their investment because for them, the investment, even though compared to other investments, maybe 2,000, 3,000 euros, is a lot. And they put everything on the line because they saw me as a savior. I've had people requesting refunds who did exactly what I just described, not showing up, then blaming me for it, all those things. And I can say with my head up high that these days, I'm not even having a sleepless night over that anymore because it's your responsibility. When you invest into mentorship, you need to show up. And if you're not ready for it, then of course, what I can do is I can create the best possible pathway where I'm as clear as possible on who is ready for this, who is not, and I do that. But sometimes people go through and they still come into that world. And sometimes that's the lesson that they need to have as well. If I would go into that rescue and I would say, Yeah, of course, here you have the refund, you didn't show up, you didn't do the things, but you're completely right that you should have gotten results, and I take full responsibility for that. That's not realistic, that's not coaching, that's not mentorship. So holding those standards also creates a better reality, I believe. And if you maybe that person goes around and tells people that they have been burned by me. Could be, but I would not feel in integrity to give that person a refund because I showed up, I put in my effort, and I hold up the standard of what I'm creating. So this is a little bit of a side story of your question because this is more the aftermath of when you get people to the space too soon. But it is really important because there's people who have a business who are signing people left and right, but they're in this dynamic, and that is burning them down. I've had people come to me working on messaging because they were just not happy with clients, not because they weren't paying, but because they weren't showing up and weren't getting the results. And a lot of coaches in the industry, they want people to get the results. Like for me as well. I don't want people in my space who don't get the results because it's not exciting to me. It's not what I'm doing this for. So people get better results when they're in a better mind state when they say yes, when they're not in a victim. That's why empowering marketing works so well, because when you show up in your power, in your spaces, in your home base, which is your Instagram, your email list, all those places, it rubs off on people and they become more empowered in the process, they become more ready. So that's when people, that's like how you demonstrate. Even now, I'm sharing client testimonials, I'm showing people what is possible for them if they would say yes. And then it's for them to make that choice. So there's one other concept that I want to run by you, and that is about it's is I also look this up. It's about the stages of change, the trans theoretical model, which I think it's a fancy word. I know it as the stages of change. I teach about this in my messaging courses as well, and this is about how much someone is already walking the path, how much someone is already ready for change. Because there's a big difference between someone who is open to change and almost ready to take that leap, and someone who's very stubborn and not ready for it. And one of the examples that I like to use here to explain this, I stopped drinking alcohol about six years ago, I would say. And before that, I lived a different life. I was part of a sorority in the Netherlands. 10 years long, I've been not 10 years in the sorority, but for 10 years I drank a lot of alcohol, different chapter of my life. And when I stopped drinking, my friend group was still drinking. So there was a disconnect there. And especially in the Netherlands, there's a lot of peer pressure. I don't know if there's any Dutchies listening to this, but it's really extreme, I would say. And also in Germany, there's these places in Europe where it's so much in the culture that you drink that if you don't drink or if you refuse alcohol, people ask you what's wrong with you. It's insane to me. And at the time, that was just my reality. So when I didn't drink, but I still went to the same parties, people were asking me, Why don't you drink? And if I said why I didn't, which was just I didn't want to have a hangover and I didn't want to be drunk, they wouldn't understand. They would not understand. They would order, they would beg me to change my mind or oh, but tonight it's gonna be so fun. I want you to drink. And I got really sick of those conversations. Later, I had the same conversations when I told someone that I didn't drink, but they were very different. When I was living near Israel, I remember there was a housemate and she asked me, How did you do that? Like, how did you stop drinking? Because I have a desire to do the same, but my friend circle is not accepting that. So could you share more about how you did that? And that's a conversation I like having, or that I enjoy having more at least, because the person is open, they're already walking the path of change. Now I looked up the image. Let me see if I have it here. I don't know if I can share it with you because I think I made a print screen. But you can type into Google the trends theoretical model change stage of change. There's a lot of images that come up in image search. I have one in front of me here, and basically it says the different stages. The first stage is maintenance. No, I'm looking at it the wrong way. Pre-contemplation. Pre-contemplation is the stage before you're even thinking about change. So that's the stage where, as I gave the example, they are not understanding anything about me not wanting to drink alcohol. The next step is contemplation. There's a seed being planted of, okay, she's not drinking. Maybe questioning why they are drinking. Preparation. Not really taking action yet, but thinking about okay, what would need to change for me to make this happen? Next step is action. Actual changing your behavior so that you have a different outcome. And then the step after that is maintenance. The sweet spot for selling your offers is people who are already contemplating, who are preparing and even already taking a little bit of action. And that doesn't mean they're doing the exact same thing that you're teaching, but they're trying to solve the problem. They're focused on the transformation. And then you come in and you talk with them, and hey, I see you've been taking these actions, I see you've tried this and this. I understand it didn't work because of this, which is your belief system around why your method works better. And then you invite them into that change and you show them like this is your desired outcome. My method that I created is exactly how you go there fastest. And this is why, and this is why it's better than that method, and this thing that you tried, and this is why it's not your fault that it hasn't happened yet for you, because you just didn't know about this part of my methodology. Are you willing to walk that path with me because I can help you get where you want to be faster with more fun. This only works when someone is actually open, when the stages of change that they're walking is already contemplating preparation action. So it could be that the people that you have in your mind that are your friends, that you know their situation, aren't walking those stages yet. And you're just projecting on them like how cool it would be if they would be taking those steps. Is that something that you recognize in the people that you think should be in your program?

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Yeah, certainly. Like if a few come up, it's yeah, it's it's really simple, right? It's just, but I think also maybe for myself, and maybe that resonates with others as a part of our sales process and funnel, or some might have simple or fancy CRM systems to note that, right? Classify, okay, I'm sensing this person is on this stage, right? Because then there's also resentment is a big word, but then there's less resentment and actually more joy and happiness, right? Oh, yeah, like I can see subtle changes in this person, right? Because when I wrote you the question, or when we talked about it, it it's yeah, you feel sad because you know their life could be better or faster in a change of state, right? Whereas, ah, actually, they are because you know it's part of the stage, right? And then you can also see how is that uh classification changing, for example, when somebody joins a free or low-ticket offer, right? And it's like, ah, that actually made a difference to the stage where they are at. So I quite like that.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Exactly. Thank you for bringing that in. Yeah, the CRM system, if you don't have it, it's a simple client tracker, it saves you so much headache because you start to understand and think more in terms of your leads, where are they? And how I track that is cold, warm, hot. We don't have enough time to really go deep in that today. But when you understand someone is cold, warm, or hot, you understand where they're at. And if you're trying to pull someone who's cold into your offer, that doesn't work. So you know, okay, this needs to shift first for them to become ready. And that's what the whole premium buyer path is about to really design that natural path. And then it can take one person seven days to be ready to buy, it can take someone else two years. But when you start to understand this and you start to understand your niche and your person better, you can very intentionally create those touch points. And creating a free masterclass or a workshop or all these offers, how I'm teaching this, and I'm actually, I think this episode is live after, but I'm doing a free masterclass on the premium authority architecture. And this is literally designing your business with all these touch points, where the touch point helps someone become ready. And every touch point, every offer, free, paid, low priced, high priced, they all serve the same purpose of helping someone become ready to be in your core offer faster. And that is something a lot of people skip. They just design a free offer because they think there's people in their space who don't have the money yet, but that's not why you should create a free offer. So, yeah, this is where the whole magic around the architecture of your business becomes so much more important than just creating the premium offer, but really making it work together. So, yeah, there's a lot here that I think already shares some insights on okay, what to do if someone is not ready yet, and to really be aware of their stage, but also to understand like where is this person at? Do I want to serve them? What is the dynamic we have together? I would love to hear from you what has been your biggest takeaway from this conversation, and how would you answer that question yourself right now?

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Yeah, thank you again for your sharing and the different ideas. The biggest takeaway is I feel really mostly about this segmentation, the stages, like letting them evolve, right? A caterpillar is not a butterfly overnight, right? And it's the same as with the journey throughout the offer, but really see it more like also the journey. I guess the fancy word would be client acquisition, right? Or what you said, hot or cold, warm, hot leads, right? Yeah, like letting people at their space go through the funnel and then observing at the same time for yourself those changes. Because that's something I didn't really pay so much attention lately, but it's beautiful, it's also a stage of transformation and readiness.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah. I think also what I would like to add to this is when you want to serve them better and faster, that's where marketing comes in. That's where becoming better at the skills of marketing and sales comes in. Because marketing, you could just not do that and wait for someone to magically end up on your doorstep. Because the truth is their own path in life will help them become ready as well. The things, the stories, the experiences that they have might give them the aha moments they need to see, okay, actually, Jonas is the person for me. I want to hire him. But what marketing does and creating that pathway does is helping them get ready faster by creating very intentional touch points on their path in the right moment, speaking to them in the right language. And when you do that, people who invest four or five figures into you, they only need seven days. This happens very often for people finding me and then joining Expense because I have created very intentional touch points in my in my ecosystem. And if you see people not being in your ecosystem, you need to analyze that. That's part of the work that we do in Expense, where okay, what is happening right now? Do you have new people coming in? Are those people opting in? Are they taking the next step with you? Are they buying your low-ticket offers? Are they in your high in your high-ticket spaces? How are you creating that ecosystem? And are you seeing that the right people are in the right place? Or can you create different pathways for people where they need to be? And then coming back to your question about what if they're not ready yet? And you can see it, but they can't. That's where you need to check in. Are they in the stage that they should be ready? Is this something that I could improve? Or am I spending too much time speaking to those who are not ready yet? Because that's when you are putting yourself in that rescue victim dynamic and you're talking to the person who's not ready. And that's a very simple tweak in your messaging, where if you read your last, I would say, five posts, you can probably see who are you calling in. Are you speaking to the person that's ready to make a decision now? Or are you speaking to the person that is not even contemplating yet? And there's a small nuance, and this is messaging. But if you only keep having people that are not really sure, that are not really there yet, then probably you need to change something in your messaging. And with these people, if you do this too long too often, there's a lot of people who need two years to be ready to say yes. And you will start to feel that you're in convincing, which is not a nice energy. So that's something that I can also see a lot of coaches and healers burn themselves out on, and they do it without realizing it because they're starting in that stages of change model with the people that are not really contemplating, even, which means that there's a longer pathway for them in their personal life, where they're at. Because if you speak to someone who's already taking action, who's already doing the thing, literally just naming that, literally saying, I know you go to the psychologist, I know you do this, I know you read those books. That means that someone who's actually doing those things will resonate more with your work, more with how you're showing up in your content. So that person will feel called to, and that person will respond instead of the person that's yeah, trying to convince that alcohol is not a good idea because they've never even considered it's not a good idea. Their pathway of becoming ready to stop drinking alcohol is much, much longer than someone who's already thinking about it and thinking, okay, maybe I only drink once a week, or maybe I so there's this difference in who you're calling in, how you're speaking to them, and then the pathway that you've created. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

I think that sums up the question. I think that gives a lot of tools also for the listeners to really just go and do something. So a practical thing that I would love to give you as homework and the listeners is to really analyze your last five posts or however you've been showing up, maybe it's email, and to really see who have I been speaking to in those stages of change. And then within the dynamics, within the conversations that you have, in the sales call or in the DM conversations that you're having, check in with yourself. Am I being in the victim rescuer dynamic, or am I just not attached to the outcome? Am I just really that pillar there that is not entertaining the drama?

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Love that. Yeah, that's a good homework as well.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Amazing. Okay, Jonas, thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Thank you, Ame, for yeah, uh holding the space and sharing and the invitation. Much appreciated.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Let's lend this with three takeaways. The first one, seeing someone's potential does not make it your job to convince them. You can know that your work would change their life, you can see their next chapter before they even can see it, and you can feel the possibility so clearly. And still they have to choose it. The second point is not all hesitation is the same. There's a big difference between someone who wants the transformation and is meeting the natural resistance that comes right before taking a big leap, and someone who has not actually decided that they want to change yet. One person needs leadership, the other one needs time. And if you confuse the two, you will drain yourself trying to coach someone into readiness who has not chosen yet. The third one is your marketing should not be dragging cold people into your premium offer. Your job is not to rescue people into transformation, your job is to build a kind of messaging, a premium buyer path, and the sales process that helps the right people recognize themselves, trust the work, and move from curious to ready without you abandoning your own power. What I love about Yonah's question is that it came from such a genuine care. He sees people deeply, and he can feel what's possible for them. And that's a beautiful quality in a coach. And you might recognize this in yourself because I for sure recognize this. But care without discernment becomes convincing. And convincing is not the same as service. If you take one thing from this episode, let it be you are not here to force the butterfly out of the cocoon. Doesn't that sound beautiful? You are here to become exceptional at speaking to the person who is already becoming, the person who is already moving, the person who is ready to be back themselves. And if this episode made you realize that your content, your messaging, or your offer ecosystem is attracting people who love your work but never quite move, this is exactly what we shift inside expense, my 12-month mastermind. We build the premium buyer path that turns attention into trust into readiness and readiness into empowered premium clients so that they are able to say yes within days or weeks instead of needing months or years of nurturing. DM me on Instagram the word expand, and we can together explore if this is the right offer for you in this moment by just having a conversation about where you're at in your business, where you would like to be, and how expand could be a match for that. And if it resonates, you can choose to apply. If you love my coaching episode, this is a power coaching episode, and every season I do just a few of those. If you want to apply for one, then head to pleasureinselling.com slash podcast, and you can see if the applications are open. Everything, all the information you need will be there. I will see you in the next episode. Thanks for tuning in into another bolt expansion podcast episode. If this episode inspired you, then hit subscribe so you won't miss any of the upcoming episodes. Write a quick review and share it with one friend who really needs to hear this. And if you really felt a big shift, then share it on your Instagram stories and tag me with at MDrost. I would love to celebrate with you about your breakthroughs, and it helps me reach more people with my work. See you next week for another bolt expansion episode.