Episode 7 - AI After Dark White Paper with Jessica Smith

In this episode, Jessica Smith and Jeff Mortimer unpack the insights from their latest AI white paper, “AI After Dark.” They explore AI’s rapid evolution and why it’s keeping leaders up at night, then move into practical strategies for adopting AI responsibly across an organization.

Drawing on agile principles, “trust but verify,” and Simon Sinek’s Infinite Game, they discuss how to balance speed with structure, build security and trust into AI-generated code, and manage resistance to change. You’ll hear concrete advice for leaders and beginners alike, how to get started with experimentation, what questions to ask, and how to navigate bias, ethics, and brand trust in an AI-driven world.

Whether you’re losing sleep over AI or just getting curious, this episode offers a grounded, human-centered roadmap for embracing AI while fostering sustainable, long-term innovation.

Check out the the white paper here.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Welcome to Solomon Impact, the show where we explore ideas, stories, and strategies that help you create meaningful change. I'm Mike on the Mike Henry, excited to kick things off.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

And I'm Jeff, the Adventures Forward, here to bring a product mindset to our conversations, focusing on value, innovation, and purpose, while exploring how AI ties it all together.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

And I'm Archie Woods, also known as the Archie Effect. Because when transformation happens, you know we're making waves. Together, we're here to share insights, spark ideas, and have a lot of fun along the way. So let's dive in. This is Slalom Impact.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Welcome to today's episode where we're going to be talking about newest white paper to be launched at Slalom, the AI After Dark, Sleepless Nights, and Smarter Machines. The title is so cool. I just want to talk about the title, but we definitely want to get into the show. As always, the Archie Effect is here with me, co-hosting Jeff the Agile Moose somehow became a guest again. I feel like this is a recurring theme on the show. We have to be nice to him every so many months when he's a guest, so we'll we'll try that. But we also have a guest that we really will be authentically nice to, Jessica. Jessica, would you like to do a quick intro before we dive in?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Uh sure. My name is Jessica Smith. Um I have been with Fellum almost a year. I work with uh delivery leadership, and um I am a solution owner and um engagement lead, and I've been in technology for about 10 years. I'm also one of the AI navigators for the Great Lakes Marketing.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

And my co-author of the paper.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Yes, the co-author of the paper, of course. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Spoiler alert.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Spoiler alert, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

That's why he's gotta be the host and not a guest, because he doesn't know. Well, thanks so much for the intro, Justin. Thanks for being here. Um, if you know us, you know we have to start out with an icebreaker that is in no way work-related. And we're going back to food, which is like Archie and my roots, so I'm excited. Um, today, because the paper's got the after dark vibe, I had to talk about your go-to late night snack, or maybe a late night snack that's overrated, or maybe a little both, depending on you know your vibe. But I can go first to give you an example. Um, I really struggle with this because I found myself to be very extreme in my taste preferences. I'm either like a seven-year-old or super fancy. There's no middle ground with my late-night snacking. So it's either pizza rolls or like really nice sushi or something. Like, I don't know. There's no middle ground in there at all. It's one of those, one of those. But my overrated one falls right into that middle ground, and I feel it's like the product that doesn't know what it wants to be. It's cuttle corn. I don't like it. It's not sweet, it's not salty, it's just kind of gross. Um, and I I don't really get it. So I think it's overrated. Um, Jessica, would you like to go next and share your your go-to or an overrated late night snack?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Sure. I'm I'm not actually a big snacker, so um probably my late night go-to is actually a cocktail. So um I love a smoky old fashioned um in the evening to unwind. Um yeah, and I mean if the overrated is any really late-night snack, they they all kind of get overrated for me.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

I'm not gonna debate that at all. I love old fashions and got a smoking kit for like a Father's Day birthday present, and it's it's just classic. So I yeah, we'll have to swap old-fashioned recipes.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Jeff's team old-fashioned. Archie, your team old-fashioned? We have to do a quick live poll.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

I mean, I do like one, yes. Okay, I mean, if we're give if we're giving them out, I'll take one.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

I mean, I have expected a little bit of resistance just for entertainment, but it's good.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

I'm old fashioned, but I'm also modern. I go both ways. It's fine. There it is. There it is.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Jeff, what's your go-to or what's your overrated?

SPEAKER_02 4:20

I have to just start with I also love making old fashions and would have a recipe from a Disney cruise we went on where we did an old-fashioned tasting and basically just copied them, and now I make those at home, and it's fantastic. So I'll have to make you one sometime, Jessica. Yeah, that'd be lovely. I think for a go-to snack, uh, right now we're in the Girl Scout cookie season, so I feel like that's where my wife and I naturally go. Um, if we're trying to be healthier, uh, we do a thing with like uh apples with some chocolate uh chips and some peanut butter on it that I actually like as well. Um, if we we want to be a little bit healthier, but still kind of hit that sweet tooth.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

So balance out the old fashioned, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Yeah. Generally we don't do either of those with old fashions, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

So with Girl Scout cookies, do you just like buy them all so you don't have to go and sell them or there's way too much?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

It's tough.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

It's tough.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Yeah, we uh we buy a lot of boxes um and then continue to get more through the season because my wife's the Girl Scout leader and you know, going to all the booths with my daughter and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

So see, we have an inside source.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yeah, last week they did one, and both of our kids used their own money and bought another box of them for themselves. So we just continuously have more coming into the house.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

So I think we had to sell candy bars for baseball one year, and I think it lasted like 12 minutes before my dad was like, I'm just buying them all and gave up on following them. So that's a social project. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

All right, Archie, what's your vote? So just too much to say. So I'll try and keep it tidy. Um I we we've been trying for some years to try and not be late-night snackers. And I say we because me and my wife will enable each other. If one of us is having a late night snack, it's like, well, I guess we're both doing this. So um go to because we don't really keep a lot of snacks like for us in the house. That's that's a nice trick. Um, we'll raid the kids' snacks or their lunch stuff and then just resupply. So what it ends up being is I eat goldfish if I'm gonna late night snack. That's Mike said, you know, childish, yeah, I'm it I'm I'm for sure there. The only caveat is I usually do want something salty. If we are by chance somewhere traveling or in a hotel, I will do room service French fries, and that just hits. I can't explain it, but it just it feels right. Um, my overrated one was gonna be popcorn, and then Mike had to be like kettle corn is the worst thing ever. I actually like kettle corn, I but it's not as much as I like the mixture of the like the cheesy popcorn with the I forget what you call it, but that one that's actually surprisingly delicious with the caramel corn, I think that's what it is. And now we've come full circle because we're also selling Boy Scout popcorn. No, I'm not doing that, but but I did at one point.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

You can redeem your take uh on the popcorn with what flavor of goldfish do you grab?

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Oh, it's origin, it has to be original because that's the only one we have in the house. That I would do a different one, but it's not readily available to me intentionally.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Pizza's the goat. How many of our pizza ones are on the shelf is how many we buy because they're never there.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

So pizza goldfish. We can crush some goldfish anyway.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

All right. Well, if you're listening out there and you have an old-fashioned recipe, we'll take those any day of the week, but also overrated snacks, go to late night snacks. Not that we need more inspiration to eat at night, but anything you're thinking about, feel free to sound it our way. Archie, I'll let you ask the first question of our guest.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Thanks, Mike. We're we're actually doing it right. This is great. So, the white paper, guys. First of all, um, you know, pull back the curtain a little bit. Uh, I had a chance to get an early peek and see some of the in-progress stuff, and uh, and so I'm I'm already a big fan. Um, but I'm gonna try and keep it together with the celebrities in the room. Um one of the things in your book, like this paper kind of opens up with uh with Ethan Malk's idea of needing like a minor crisis to really grasp AI's impact. Have you had your own sleepless nights in with AI? Or like, or maybe something that maybe triggered you a little bit? And I'm gonna go to Jeff first.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

That was the creepiest thing I ever said on this show. Have you had your own sleepless night?

SPEAKER_02 9:00

That was super creepy, RG. Um and yeah, I think I so I have definitely had some sleepless nights um where I'm thinking about this stuff, and I think really it's that if you are digging into AI and how fast it's moving and the amazing things that it can do, and also the really scary side of okay, if that can actually do that now, like what are all the risks and things associated with that, you're gonna have some slips, sleepless nights. So it's um I think it's really more that output of if you are digging into AI, you're going to have sleepless nights because there's gonna be things that are just gonna blow your mind and you're gonna just be thinking about them a ton. So, yeah, we that was sort of the theme of that we went on with the paper, um, is time diving into that and the different sleepless nights. Um and yeah, you know, the first one I had was really um I was you know hearing about AI accelerated engineering and you know being able to build prototypes quickly. And I was like, okay, let me try this out, let's see if it can work. Um, specifically, there's a board game that I love to play, and it didn't have a digital version. I was like, well, let me see if I can like you know throw this into uh like a GPT and come up with like what is the functionality we need to build in the app and see what it can do. Um, and it was mind-blowing just how quickly I could have like a functioning app and start playing it and modifying it. Um and so that was it was like, oh my gosh, this is gonna change the world moment for me. And I think if if you haven't had that already, then you probably haven't been looking at AI and and all the advancements it's been making. I mean, even just the last couple months, the new models that are coming out, and just how quickly things we couldn't do before you can now do, it's constantly changing, like on a day by day or weekly basis. Um, if you couldn't do it yesterday, try it again because you might be able to do it today. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

That's an acceptable answer, Jeff. Thanks, Archie.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

One of the things that I never realized either is the transition of sleepless nights, meaning like I can't grasp it all, and you're a little bit worried or anxious to now turning the corner of like you have so many ideas you don't want to stop using it. Like, that's another variation on the sleepless nights. It's like I want to keep going and try these things out. What so if that feels a little bit better than the anxiety part of it, but it is so overwhelming. So definitely well said, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

But then you get the anxiety of do I have like in now like all my AI agents actually doing everything they could be doing and using it to the full capacity? Do I have all these? Am I juggling all of these things all at once? And then the anxiety from am I actually you know doing enough with all of this? Like, oh, I have this AI agent that's not doing something right now because I didn't give it instructions to go do something. But yeah, do we do you have time to actually that cognitive load to to really be meaningful in making them work? So that it's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

Well, um, Jeff, you pointed to like constant change and just the speed is is a huge theme of the sleepless nights of just keeping up with the the rate that things are changing. Jessica, I was I was gonna ask you one of the points in the paper is that speed without structure is chaos. Um, how do you find that balance in practice?

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Um I think that um when you take a look at the speed, it's really getting back to agile roots. It's um taking a look at the fact that we've uh created a lot of bloat in Agile and taking it back and looking at um what fast prototyping can allow us to do, what um frequent delivery can allow us to do, what in it can empower us, empowering individuals when they can actually do something that they weren't able to do before, and how that can really transform a team and make it really uh cross-functional in a way that it hasn't been able to in the past. So, really taking back um and taking some of the blow out of Agile and giving it back to its roosts and allowing us to really focus on what Agile really was supposed to do, which was to get us to iterate really quickly, to get a product in front of the customer, to show them, hey, this is what you said you want. Is that really what you want? Because sometimes a customer doesn't know exactly what they want until they see what they don't want. And so it really allows us to move much more quickly and um and iterate much more quickly than we have in the past, even with just traditional agile.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Yeah, that's great. I I love that point. Um, just kind of going back to the basics and getting rid of all the weighted or like you said, the bloated practices, but the vision and the and the real reason why we focus on agility will help hopefully avoid some sleepless nights for sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah, it's not reducing, it's not getting rid of structure, it's just um focusing that structure.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah, and I love to like I know I feel like all of us have talked about this at different points, but I love too how it is sort of re-energized being able to do some of those exciting things, like like how it how it buffs rapid prototyping and things like that, where you're like, oh yeah, we can get a proof of concept going, we can do these kinds of things without like spinning our wheels too long and having to think too much about resources and all that kind of stuff. And so yeah. Good fun there. Um so here's here's one that I know um we deal with a lot, and so in in our consulting world, when we want to use AI with like a client and partner with the client in any way with AI, there's always a lot of um security of how we do that and whose AI are we using and all of all of that stuff involved, right? So I know we we play in that world, but it can be the security stuff can be pretty interesting, a little bit sobering. And I'm trying not to ask a creepy question, guys. I'm trying. So but like but we know, right, in the white paper, you guys talk about this, nearly half of AI generated code has flaws. So um this is like a this is a thing. So how how is that impacting like changing the conversations with leaders and engineering teams right now? What do you think, Jessica?

SPEAKER_00 15:36

To me, it's trust but verify. It's the same way that you would treat um a new um developer, you know, you want to let them code, but then take a look at their code, make sure that it's there's unit tests, make sure that it's going through all the proper channels and making sure that it's test-driven development, you know, making sure that it's code reviewed before you put it into production. You don't want to just trust that the AI is doing what you say that it's gonna do. You need to trust but verify. You know, it could be pulling in packages that have security flaws, and you need to make sure that you're testing that. Don't give away your security uh protocols because you want rapid prototyping or you want rapid development. Don't you know, don't lessen what you've already put into practice.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

So I shouldn't just go AI straight to prod. Is that what we're saying? Okay. No, all right.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Just the way the same way you the same way you wouldn't go, you wouldn't go straight from dev to prod. You would, you know, it it's the you yeah, you shouldn't ever do that. Um it's just keep your practices in place, keep the human in the loop, keep doing what you're doing. It doesn't replace that practice.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Yeah, I think aspect of this too that I want to make sure we hit on is it's not just if you're like putting security risks out there, but there's also this aspect of potential biases that it's putting into what it's building, and at the end of the day, the brand trust that comes into all of this, right? Like, can I trust um what this this brand has put out there or even you know who I'm talking to and things like that um at the end of the day, that it's actually using um and not taking those biases and creating um you know bad practices. Um and and thinking of making sure you have that human in the loop and making sure you're you're continuing that brand promise and things like that with everything that you're doing, um, is a really key aspect of this as well.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Yeah, I like that add too. That's definitely it's okay if it works, but it's still got to be on our brand and up to our standards too. And that's where humans can absolutely have a huge impact. So um good job, Archie. Not asking a question about security in a creepy way. Um back on the right track. Um, the the next topic, and I'm always gonna dig into the leadership stuff, but there's there's six recommendations for leaders in the paper. Um, they're all really practical, but it's tough to manage through you know every single one of them. Jeff, which ones do you think most organizations will resist or deprioritize on that list and and why?

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Um, well, I think um the the one that stands out to me the most that like you just have to get started with is having like some sort of an AI office and some sort of governance. Um and I think we've seen in various organizations some resistance to kind of creating more structure around the AI and how it's being used. Um, and I I think that's gonna be such a key to this because if it's not used in the right way, again, it can really deteriorate your brand trust and and those security vulnerabilities and things like that. And you might be able to do awesome things quickly, but if it ends up you know tanking your entire business, well, that probably wasn't worth it, right? Like might have gotten that app out a month sooner than we would have otherwise. But if we end up having a security vulnerability that gives us all the client data away and our business brand trust is lost, and you know, long term, that's not gonna be the right thing for you. So I think it is making sure you have that appropriate governance on it and how you're using it, and making sure there's an awareness around how to use it well. Um and and I think another aspect of this that I think we're gonna see a lot of resistance with is just the refactoring of how we work, the way teams work, how teams are set up is another aspect of. I think some teams are still working in a waterfall methodology and very far away from this. And then even teams working in, you know, maybe a scrum or something like that, understanding that if you can develop so much faster, where can you how does that team shape change? Um, we talk a little bit about it in the paper as well. Uh Mike Cohn came out with uh um we uh we still need agile teams, we just need them to be even better now. So um he he wrote a paper around that, kind of diving into that topic even further as well.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

So yeah, those are both really cool examples, and they're ones that make me think of things that maybe you can get away with for a little bit, and so the temptation is to deprioritize it, but they're also the other end of the spectrum where if you get away with it for a little while, it's really tough to get the I forget the expression, but get the cat back in the bag or whatever the expression is, because chaos is you know rained or these things have gone, and now you're trying to bring structure back. Whereas if you're just intentional from the front, doesn't sound fun or exciting, but the path is gonna be much smoother in the long run. So those are great examples.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

I thought it was get the goldfish back in the bag because I can't do that. I have trouble with that.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

Put shadow on, put those back in the bag with the pizza on going there.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Uh uh uh so I got I got a question for Jeff here, too. Um, this is the fourth paper in the series, and um, all of this series has contained Jeff. The first one was value, the second one was innovation, which I heard is very, very good white paper. And then the third one is that one. It seems familiar. I don't remember. And then third one is purpose, and then the fourth one now is AI. So looking at all these topics together, what do you think is like the through line for leaders that are trying to build something sustainable?

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Yeah, so I think at the end of the day, um, you know, in all of these, what we've been talking about is where do you focus in order to make sure um that you're driving for a future where it's a sustainable business, right? I go go back to Simon Sinek's Infinite Game. That's one of my favorite books. Um and really when you look longer term, are you focused in the right way on the right things in order to have a you know sustainable business in the long term? Um, and right now I think there's a moment with AI and how quickly it's moving that if you don't approach it in the right way, you're potentially either gonna get left behind or you're gonna do something that's going to create, you know, a security vulnerability or something like that that's gonna end up, you know, tanking your organization as well. So I think we're at a really critical time for businesses to either you know pivot and leverage AI in the appropriate way in their business, or if they don't, most likely just getting left behind and you know, eaten up by someone who goes and builds the app uh, you know, in a week instead of the years that they've spent building it. Um so I think it's a critical time and and all that ties back to do you have that strong purpose, right? As you think of AI, human in the loop, do we have that strong purpose we're going after with a clearly innovative spirit and focusing on getting to value at the end of the day? So I think that all ties back with what we're seeing with AI.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

So what I'm hearing is all four white papers are good.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

All white paper, four white papers are great, Archie.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Okay. Oh, oh, even yes. Uh agreed.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

And then if you're gonna write a white paper, you have to have Jeff, right? Doesn't it? Um, Jeff's not gonna say that, but I've said it, so it's out there. All right, so if if someone's out there and they have not used AI, they've just resisted it, they're on the bench with it, not trying it out. What is a piece of practical advice that you would give someone to just start experimenting? I'll I'll let Jessica go first, but first time or you know, new AI user, what's what's some advice you'd share?

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Um well, the first thing is it's just get started. Like, don't be afraid of it. Um the other thing is like uh I think most people right now are are really afraid that it's gonna be taking their job. And it's not it's not gonna take your job. It's changing the way that we work. It's an accelerator, it's helping us um reframe the way that we work, it's helping us accelerate those tasks that are taking a lot of time to free up our ability to be more creative, more innovative, um, and really to uh help us shape our our future path in our careers in a new way. And I think that that's really exciting, you know. Um I no longer have to spend two hours creating a PowerPoint. I can then spend those that time, you know, um looking at how that PowerPoint can spend send the message instead. I can work on my presentation skills, I can um learn another skill or you know, upskill myself on something else. It's just accelerating um my skills in a new way.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

And maybe we don't even create PowerPoints anymore. We can go directly to a prototype or a demo of exactly what we're trying to prove out in that same amount of time. I think there's an element here of certain things that we didn't do before because they would have taken weeks or months to do can now be done in an hour or two. And so that actually could change where you focus and what you do, um, and and potentially, you know, help in that decision process or things like that, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Yeah, I like that Jeff. And the way I think about it too is I've I've found myself the arc for me was oh, look, I can make PowerPoint decks faster. Then I'm taking really cool stuff from AI and cramming it into a PowerPoint because it just was the way you communicate it. But why cram it in there? Why not just share it, you know, live the way it's presented to me, and now we can have an organic discussion. So going back to like the agile roots, if it's bloated or it's not meaningful or valuable, then get rid of it and just go right to the source.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

So I really love too how I feel like you guys touched on this, and I it like should bear being reinforced. The the thing is, like these new things help us to do certain things, but AI, but it's still the human that has to come up with the good question. And I think that's also like a piece that that has, I think, shown up in all the different white papers is like if you're asking the right question, then you can sharpen that, then you can tighten it, you can learn from it, you can adapt, and all that. And so um we still need the humans, and you know, we didn't all lose our jobs yet, so I think you're right.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

And I want to touch on that a little bit. I've heard uh I've I listened to a few different AI podcasts, and and one of the ones that I um heard recently isn't that you're gonna you're not gonna lose your job, like not everyone's losing their jobs, you're gonna lose your job to people who have started to use AI. Like the people who are digging into this and accelerating based on leveraging this new tool that we have are going to be the ones that are continuing. And if people aren't embracing that and starting to really use this, yeah, you might lose your job because there's gonna be others who can do that much faster. And quite frankly, if you don't think about how your job evolves and how you know we can accelerate things, yeah, that's where it's gonna fall apart.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

So love it. Jeff, any other advice that you would share?

SPEAKER_02 28:09

I just want to reiterate just start experimenting with it, trying things out. Um do it in a safe way where you know, I like I did it with a board game. Like, you know, it wasn't anything with like sensitive information or anything in it, like I was just trying something out that was fun. I've done honestly, I've built apps with my kids where looking up animal facts online or things like that. Um, so even if you're just trying it in like that, you know, just a fun way to see kind of what it can do. And then what it what ends up happening as you get more familiar with it, you may be asked to do things that are are maybe more sensitive data or information, but you have a basic understanding of how it works and then where you need to be mindful of uh you know what you're putting into it and where you need to put those guardrails in place.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

That's huge. I I like the idea of not thinking about the box of the work you do. Maybe there's not a natural opportunity or it's intimidating, but trying it with something fun on the side takes a little bit of that pressure off. So that's uh that's great advice. Archie, I'll say something creepy. Any final words?

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Uh we're not trying to take over the world, Mike. I don't like I'm going to so many like 90s cartoons in my head right now with that uh pinky in the brain. Anyway, nailed it. Uh I not necessarily final words. Um, I'm not gonna quote myself, but I did write a book about AI, and one of the things is like we're still the explorers, and that's what I was thinking about when Jeff um was talking about that is like, yeah, we have these these tools available, right? But we're still the ones that are curious, we're still the ones exploring and trying new things. And so for anyone, it's like, yeah, try something little, see, see what happens. And like I love what you said earlier. If you couldn't do it yesterday, try today. It might be it might work now because it's like that. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

That's a mic drop for sure. Great job, Archie. Uh well, thank you, Jessica, for joining us. Thanks for keeping an eye on Jeff while he writes his fourth white paper. Uh, Jeff, thanks for being a guest. Next time around, we're not gonna be nice. We're back to the hosting role. Uh, but thank you for being a guest, Jeff, I guess. Thanks as always.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

What's number five, Jeff? Oh, I don't know. Oh, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

After after party. The dark before the dawn?

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Okay, all right. I'm I'm off. I'm grounding myself.

unknown 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

Well, thank you for listening out there. Uh, be on the lookout for that white paper and send us your old-fashioned recipes. Have a great day, everyone. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Thank you for joining us, Tom Song, and keep learning, keep growing, and keep making waves.