Run the Ball, Scout the Refs, Fix the Defense

The crew opens with Jayden Daniels’ late-game injury and a debate about whether coaches should keep their star players in when the game’s already out of reach. Matt and AD share the player’s mindset of never wanting to come out, and when a coach has to protect his guys from themselves.

From there, Matt gives fans a rare inside look at how NFL teams actually scout referee crews each week. He explains how coaching staffs know which refs call the most holding, pass interference, or roughing penalties, and how those tendencies quietly shape a game plan. AD admits that over time he learned to “butter up” refs instead of barking at them, because relationships matter even on Sundays.

Things heat up when Aaron Donald calls out the Cowboys and Bengals, saying their defenses are undisciplined, lack leadership, and simply play bad football. Matt agrees, calling Cincinnati’s defense “hard to watch” and adding that even Bill Cowher gets offended seeing that kind of tape. Todd jumps in with an agent’s perspective on how injuries, trades, and roster movement ripple through contracts, depth charts, and player value across the league.

Later, the crew shifts to New England’s success with Drake Maye and Josh McDaniels, breaking down how spreading the ball around and running it with purpose still wins in today’s NFL. Then the group dives into the college game, where Matt and AD agree the sport has become “out of control.” They tackle the constant coaching changes, NIL pressure, and unrealistic expectations that are reshaping college football faster than ever.

Aaron closes the episode with his Defensive Players of the Week, showing love to the Rams, Steelers, and a breakout rookie from Arizona. It’s another episode full of honest conversation, high football IQ, and locker-room insight you won’t get anywhere else. The Inner Circle Podcast brings you the unfiltered voice of the game, every week with Matt Ryan, Aaron Donald, Todd France, and Zach Klein.

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Transcript

Zach Klein (00:00)
greetings. Thanks for hanging out with us here on the inner circle podcast is Zach Klein, Todd France, Matt Ryan, and Aaron Donald coming up on the show. Run the ball. Matt explains who is doing it really well. AD points out the team that needs to step it up. AD also has his worst team defensively in the national football league. In fact, there are two that are so bad. He has to put them in the same breath.

We also explained the reason New England offensively is able to spread the wealth and we are even talking some college ball. One of our guys saying it's completely out of control and where everyone thinks Lane Kiffin will be the head coach next year. We got our two minute drill. We got AD's defensive player of the week, but first how teams get scouting reports on referee crews and just a brutal week in the NFL injury wise. Enjoy.

I want to start with Daniels play. Midway through the fourth quarter, the commanders are down 38-7, and he is still in the game. Dan Quinn did own it on Monday afterwards. But should coaches play starters late in the blowouts, AD and Matt? Where do you stand on A1 guys being in the game late when the game is out of control?

AD (01:06)
It all depends how the game is going, because we can go back. I know it was a different timeframe, but when the Broncos came back and beat the Giants and scored 33 points in the fourth quarter, right? And I know Daniels was just coming back off an injury, right? I don't think he played a great game. You know, I feel like he was, he looked a little fluctuated. Soon as he looked, he was running a lot. But you never expect the injuries to happen. It's a part of the game, right? I think they was down in the red zone about to score. They're probably trying to get something going, see if he gets some points on the board and probably potentially.

take them out after they would have scored, but it was a freak injury. ⁓ I liked that he was out there fighting, still trying to find a way to score some points for his team and not quitting on them. Not being like, we down, whatever we down, it's a fourth quarter, seven minutes left, whatever it was, I'm done. As a leader, you want your guys out there still battling for you, still trying to find ways to score points, man. ⁓ It was a freak injury that happened, but that's just a part of the game. You never want things like that to happen. ⁓

That's football at the end of the day, right?

Matt Ryan (02:04)
I think as players. We always hate it coming out of the game, right? ⁓ You never wanted to even in a blowout. You just never wanted to come out. You want to be out there. You want to keep playing? Yeah, exactly. I think you're just hardwired that way and I do think there is a level of of coaches having to protect players from themselves. In that ball game it is over and you know, I think that the responsibility and the job of a head coach is is.

AD (02:13)
Like you quitting. It's like you quitting. Yeah.

Matt Ryan (02:31)
to have vision forward ⁓ post game the rest of the season ⁓ knowing that you know midway through the fourth quarter down what were they down 38 to seven ⁓ this ball game is over there they're not going to win this football game and you've got to you've got to be able to compartmentalize that and you know think about next week and the following week and the future ⁓ in those scenarios and I think Dan on that you know Zach to to your point he owned that afterwards and probably no one

feels worse about that than Dan Quinn. Knowing him, having played for him, knowing how much he cares for his players, ⁓ nobody feels worse about that than Dan. And so I'm sure he feels awful ⁓ at this point. I'm sure he'll learn from that mistake. But we talk about the injuries from the weekend, and Jayden is a huge one ⁓ for sure, but their team is sliding, right? And they're heading in the wrong direction. Talk about two football teams that aren't heading in the wrong direction. Maybe the Packers with that tough loss.

AD (03:23)
Yep.

Matt Ryan (03:29)
But that Tucker craft injury is huge for the Packers. He was coming on as as as maybe their go to guy ⁓ in terms of the passing game. And the other one I think about is Joe Walt ⁓ in in LA with the Chargers. Their their team had been trending in the right direction. They had another tackle go down. Joe Walt went down second and it looks like he's going to. I think he's out for the remainder of the year and so you know that's a team that was right there at the top of the AFC West alongside.

AD (03:31)
Yes.

Matt Ryan (03:58)
the Broncos and just in front of the Chiefs. Those two, to me, are on those teams that are contending, that were huge impact players. That's going to be a problem for them moving

AD (04:06)
Playoff teams,

Zach Klein (04:10)
know, it's a tough, it's a tough call guys. I remember working in Orlando and got into it with Magic head coach, Stan Van Gundy. When the Magic had already clinched a spot in the playoffs, they couldn't move up or down in their seating, but Tracy McGrady was playing and I'm like, well, why is he still in the game? And it was, he got into it because the coach's mentality and AD brought up a really good point. I guess the coaches, there comes a point when they think it's over, but deep down, I think they always think that they can come back and win.

Right. There's that feeling that we're never out of it. And you brought up a great point in the Broncos game. It's not what it was in the Washington game in terms of the score, but these coaches just deep down believe in their guys and they can get it done. Don't they?

AD (04:48)
And

it's like that in sometimes the players, right? Like I said, we get that battle mentality that, you know, that gladiator mindset, right? There was games that we were blowing teams out and I just came back off an injury, right? And I wanted to get my, you know, I felt like I was a little, you know, quick wind this. I wanted to get a couple more snaps and play more. They're like, no, we don't need you. I'm like, no, I'm going in this series. I'm gonna get this drive because I feel like let me get myself going. Cause sometimes like, sometimes the coach you gotta try to.

you know, protect the player from himself. Because, you know, sometimes that mindset is I ain't done no matter if you winning. Sometimes you get your ass whooped and you be like, no, I'm trying to make a play, make something happen. I ain't gonna just quit on my team, right? I don't want to come off like that. So sometimes the guys just want to be out there and battle, man. Find ways that, you know, as a leader to still be out there and fight with your team to the last second. So it's tough. It's tough, man. It's just the nature of the business, the nature of the sport, right?

Zach Klein (05:41)
Hey Todd, how do injuries affect contracts?

T$ (05:43)
Sorry, I was just getting trade information. Not my guy, not my guy, but...

Zach Klein (05:44)
Yeah, well, we got, you know, it's trade day. It's NFL. It's NFL trading

deadline. Hold up. You're looking at your phone. We have trades. You're breaking for us here.

T$ (05:51)
No,

no, I'm not breaking anything, especially by the time this gets out tomorrow. It's interesting though from an agent's perspective because when you find out about a trade, even if it's not your guy, it still could impact your guy. so we're like the Jags just traded for Jacoby Myers. So you have a receiver Brian Thomas over there. You're like, okay, well, how does that impact him? Because they also have the Hunter kid. ⁓

How does that impact things and your guys dealing with an ankle injury? But then you look at it from the flip side, your second round pick on the Raiders, Jack Bash, you know, all of a sudden now they just move their receiver out. It opens up a spot for him to, you know, to be more productive. So it's just interesting how it affects everything and how every move is just a ripple effect. And it's why you live on like the social media world for an agent, because it's just always changing and so much going on. But anyways, to answer your question on injuries and contracts.

You know, look, I'm not a doctor, but ⁓ I feel like I could could play one because I've learned so much about the medical world dealing with players and injuries and second opinions and stuff and different injuries impact guys in different ways and different positions are impacted in different ways. ⁓ know, an ACL not as big of a deal today in today's world. Achilles is still a big deal. ⁓ And that's because of the explosiveness and for different positions, right? That a wide receiver, a defensive end, that's going to be a tough one to come back from.

AD (07:09)
Mm-hmm.

T$ (07:13)
and takes time. Concussions, it's a problem overall for all the guys. can go through all the back injuries. Just because of the lack of understanding of backs has become a huge thing. And it's not just veterans in their contract. This affects the draft prospects too, ⁓ you know, coming out of college ⁓ and understanding their history and how available they're going to be, ⁓ you know, for the rookie year and all that kind of stuff. You as an agent, you have to really get into these second opinions and we do it all the time. I think we've talked about it before.

And you have to have really well documented information. But at the end of the day, it's your doctor versus the team doctor. And the general manager is always going to lean on his own doctors. You're just trying to at least present another side because sometimes you deal with emotions with general managers, right? Who really want the player and they're just looking for whatever excuse to justify to squeeze that round peg into the square hole. ⁓ but you know, we've done it before. I've dealt with it with, ⁓ you know, Bud Dupree towards ACL in December, and then was a free agent in March. Ultimately signed, I think it was a,

AD (07:48)
Mm-hmm.

T$ (08:10)
a five-year, 80-something million dollar contract because that GM and their doctors fell fine with it. Now, that's in December. So that's only four months later as opposed to if he did that in September, there may have been more teams that were interested. But because it was so late, teams also look at it from like the ACL, they'll say the first year, they don't think the guy is who he really is. He's not back to where they need a whole nother year after that to where they can see who he really is.

AD (08:23)
Yeah.

T$ (08:36)
Kenny Golliday missed 11 games in his last year, became third highest paid receiver. So at the end of the day, team docs are going to have their opinions. And here's the crazy thing. All teams, totally different. So one team doc can think one thing and maybe fail a guy on a physical and not want him. Whereas another team might be like, we're okay with that. And a lot of that comes to how conservative a doctor is, or if they've dealt with a player in that in the past and they've been burned by it.

you know, all these different things come into play. there's a lot of moving parts when it comes to contracts and injuries, whether it's rookies or veterans or whatever it may

Zach Klein (09:06)
You mentioned Jack Besh, your wide receiver. Will you call him or any of your guys, whether they move up or down on the depth chart and say, this is your opportunity or to your point, if you were a number one tackle wide receiver ⁓ running back and they bring in somebody else, what's those conversations looking like?

T$ (09:23)
yeah,

for sure. mean, obviously the conversations depend on whether you're going up or down or what the situation is, but you're definitely having those conversations. And listen, different guys have different personalities, right? Some guys could care less and some guys get frustrated by it. So you just got to play to the personality of your client and make sure that they understand what the situation is. And if you don't really know, then you've got to dig deep and understand what the situation is and find out directly from the source, the GM. I'm not going to sit here and guess or read social media. I'm going direct to the source. I'm getting the information and I to be as transparent as I can with my guy because

We're on the same team. I want nothing but the best for him. You can't be an agent that just sits there and strokes players and blows them up with hot air. Like if they need to do more or they didn't give that GM a comfort factor, we gotta let them know that. And how are we gonna adjust and what are we gonna do? Because the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I'm not gonna do that with my guys. I wanna be real with them and we're gonna get the most out of it and we'll work around whatever situations we're facing.

Matt Ryan (10:05)
definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again.

Zach Klein (10:15)
Matt, again, you were in the KC Buffalo game. You know, it's fixed, right? The NFL is fixed. Everybody's tired of the Chiefs winning. So they had that pass interference called.

Matt Ryan (10:20)
Ha!

Zach Klein (10:23)
Third down, third quarter, Chiefs are driving the home's passes tipped at the line by, ⁓ know, the Buffalo Bills. Officials called an intentional grounding, even though it was tipped. The Chiefs try to challenge the play. They were told it wasn't reviewable. Everybody's chiming in on this play. So for Matt and AD, how do you avoid...

momentum killing plays by the refs where it goes one way the other, where you're moving, you're driving, next thing you know, it's stalled and you see it right there, it shouldn't have

Matt Ryan (10:51)
Well, I actually we crushed the referees all the time, right? As players. Oh, that's a bad call. This is a bad call. This is bad call. I actually think Carl Jeffers did an excellent job right there. It's a confusing and part of like being an analyst or calling games is you've got to know these rules. And Gene, I thought this was, I mean, this one is about as obscure as you can get, right? Uh, in terms of, of the ruling, but after

kind of talking to everybody about this situation and then hearing the explanation. So they actually got it right. ⁓ There are three parts of tip balls with intentional grounding that are reviewable. Number one being, you can review where the pass landed. ⁓ So was it past the line of scrimmage? You can take a look at that. The ball needs to go past the line of scrimmage or else it's intentional grounding. Number two, you can...

determine whether or not the quarterback was in the pocket. ⁓ So the tackle box right inside or outside the tackle box and then number three, you can review where the ball was released and that's basically to find out where they're going to spot the ball. If in fact it is intentional grounding. The ball being tipped is only a consideration ⁓ for whether or not it's intentional grounding. So it's different from a pass interference call where if the ball is tipped in a pass interference call.

It's dead, right? Like you can do whatever you want after it's ⁓ tipped so you can go knock the wide receiver down, but it's only a it's only a part of consideration for the referees in this type of situation, right? So if it's tipped and maybe that really felt like you know that altered where the ball was going and it was going towards somebody, they can consider that, but it's not it's not rule and therefore it's not reviewable. ⁓ So.

AD (12:16)
Yeah.

Matt Ryan (12:42)
I thought that the referees did an excellent job of getting it right in a high, you know, high, fast paced critical situation in that game. It was loud in the stadium as that was going on. People were, you know, going nuts. And then the place exploded when the, when the ruling went in favor of Buffalo. So shout out to the referees, because I feel like as players and as analysts and, everybody, we get on them all the time. Carl, and his staff did a great job there, but as a player in that type of situation,

AD (13:02)
Yeah.

Matt Ryan (13:11)
Listen, you can't, this is out of our control and there's going to be good calls and bad calls ⁓ and calls that you feel strongly about that don't go your way or maybe you didn't get, and there is nothing there in a thing you can do. You have to move on. You have to play the next play and you've got to be locked in. Yes. Control what you can control. And that is all you can do because if the frustration of the call or the frustration of the non-call impacts what you do on the following play.

AD (13:13)
Yeah, exactly.

control what you can control. Yep. Exactly.

Matt Ryan (13:40)
man, you lost, right? You lost that situation. You have to be ready for whatever comes your way as a

AD (13:43)
Exactly.

Zach Klein (13:45)
80,

how many, what was your average snap count would you say in the game? How many plays? Ballpark.

AD (13:49)
If we

play 70 snaps, I was going to least play 68 snaps. I wanted to play all of them, but as I got older, it's to tell me before, like work with me, we need you week seven to play off, like take care of your body. At least take 65 snaps if we play 70. Don't try to take all 70. So I had to be better at that as I got older.

Matt Ryan (13:57)
All of them.

Zach Klein (13:58)
All

All right, so let's say the 65 or 70 snaps you played, how many of those snaps did you think you were being held?

AD (14:18)
shit. Yeah, damn they heavy play, honestly. But that's part of the game, man. I feel like Officer Lyman's job is to find ways to stop you, right? Holding is a part of the game, as long as it ain't like blatant to the point where I'm running away and you still hold me. But holding is heavy damn play, honestly, in the trenches. can't, that's why I stop even complaining to the ref about this shit. He even gonna see it and throw the flag or I'm just gonna keep playing because it's just wasting my breath going back and forth with the ref.

Matt Ryan (14:19)
65.

AD (14:45)
If he ain't see it, he ain't see it. It ain't gonna stop. Just do it the next play and trying to make a play. But in the trenches, man, hold on to every damn play. I'm off of Salamander trying to find a way to slow you down.

Matt Ryan (14:51)
Yeah.

T$ (14:53)
Did you used to

go tell the refs when you were younger though? Did you used to say stuff to them?

AD (14:56)
Hell, I used

to be mad as hell. I used to scream at them. But I don't understand. I need the reps on my... We can't say it on the show, man. Come on, man. But as I got older, I started to understand I need the reps on my side. I don't want the reps to be my enemies out there. So it'd be like, come on, ref. And then as you make a name for yourself, you gotta build that rapport with certain reps. You look at them like...

T$ (15:00)
What would you say?

Okay fine. Yeah you actually can.

Matt Ryan (15:04)
you can, ⁓ you can.

Zach Klein (15:07)
That's the beauty of hosting a podcast, A.D. It's your podcast. You can say it.

Matt Ryan (15:17)
Yeah.

AD (15:23)
I'm look at her, got, AD, I'm gonna watch it. All right, there you go. You might get a call once in a hair and air, but sitting there complaining and screaming that the ref ain't gonna help you, right? On to the next play and find a way to get after it, so.

Matt Ryan (15:34)
think that's the interesting thing too. You said it, you get to know the refs. You get to know the guys on the field. The longer you play, the more of a relationship that you end up having, you know, with a back judge or in our case, it was with the referee. like, you know, I mentioned Carl Chepers who's, who's out there doing that. I probably had Carl 30 times, you know, as, as, as the referee of the game. So you get to know these guys pretty well and they give you leeway because I think

AD (15:44)
And it's respecting,

Matt Ryan (16:01)
Like you said, a D there's times where, you know, they could probably call penalty on every play, ⁓ whether it's holding whatever, right? Absolutely. And so, ⁓ they give you some leeway, in terms of, of playing it. but I think you're certainly, you're always at least from the quarterback position, I think you're always in, in communication with them and, ⁓ you know, telling them either, Hey, you missed that. I think you're gonna, you know, if they come back to it, if that happens again, like you, you gotta be on top of this and they'll, they'll say yes.

AD (16:06)
I got away with some calls too. Yeah, I got away with some calls too, for sure.

Matt Ryan (16:29)
They probably just blow you off, they'll engage with you and they'll talk to you. But you have relationships with these guys on the field because you're seeing them. If you play 10 plus years, you're seeing these guys 30, 40 times in your career.

AD (16:44)
No.

Zach Klein (16:45)
Did you guys ever scout or get a ⁓ quote unquote game plan on referee teams and what they're most inclined to call or not call and take advantage of it?

T$ (16:54)
Yeah, like what can you get away with?

Matt Ryan (16:54)
Absolutely.

AD (16:54)
Yup. Yeah,

Matt Ryan (16:55)
Every week,

every week you would get a breakdown on what this crew calls, right? This, this crew is number one in defensive pass interference calls. So we've got to, we've got to be mindful of that as DBs. This crew is the lowest in the league in terms of offensive holding calls. So we're not saying hold, but let's make them call it, right? Like, yeah, exactly. Let's make them call it. So you definitely know.

AD (16:56)
every week. Yup.

Yup, thanks.

T$ (17:12)
Hold.

AD (17:13)
You can get away with some shit. Yeah, facts. Yes.

Matt Ryan (17:18)
⁓ what crews are calling this and every coaching staff I was a part of on Friday mornings, we would go through it. You would get their pictures, their names, what they call, what the crew is calling. ⁓ Yeah, I mean, there's...

T$ (17:29)
Really?

AD (17:32)
broke

her down to a tee. I did it. Nah, just pros for me. But it's about winning games, man. You trying to find any advantage you can get in a game of football to win a game, right? And nowadays they got so much stats on everything that you can break down to a tee to understand what's going on, just to try to get your advantage to go out there and win a game, man. That's what it's about, so.

T$ (17:33)
college also or just just in the pros.

Matt Ryan (17:35)
We didn't do it in college.

Correct. Correct.

T$ (17:52)
AD, like

if you saw ⁓ a ref crew, a referee crew that was not high ranked in terms of offensive line holding, would you ever go to them before the game? Like you got to watch these guys. I'm telling you, like they're going to be holding me here and there, like just to do ever get a call because of that. It's like basketball, you know, like you let them know, watch man, they're going to follow me here.

AD (18:06)
Not yet.

Yeah, only if a ref came up to me before the game and like, what's up AD? Good luck today. I'd be like, hey, make sure you watch out for them holding calls with like a hee-hee-haw type of thing. not really, you know, during the game, if you're getting some holding calls, you'd be like, you just tell the ref, could you just watch out? keep like, ref, come on, man. I got four guys blocking me. can't like, watch the hole. Can I get a little help? Something like that. But I ain't gonna keep complaining. I'm not gonna keep complaining. I'm just gonna play the game and make sure he got his eyes on it just to help me out a little bit down the road. So.

T$ (18:18)
Ha ha.

Zach Klein (18:38)
I try to butter him up, you know, Hey, Mr. Hockley, how's your wife Jennifer doing? She still liked that lobster. Maybe we'll send her some to the hotel or something like

AD (18:39)
You got to, man. It's about winning. You're trying to win, baby. You're trying to

win. what mean? You got to find a van. Definitely, you got three, four guys blocking every damn play. You got to get yours where you can get it at.

Zach Klein (18:52)
Listen, AD, Micah Parsons was one of your defensive players of the week, just a few weeks ago, and he had some strong comments after their three point loss to Carolina.

is Ryan Wood, the Packers beat writer from USA Today talking to Micah Parsons afterwards and asked him about Bryce Young's performance and then that performance ending with a victory for them and a loss for Green Bay.

Can you give a point, AD? Not many quarterbacks throwing for a hundred yards and winning.

AD (19:40)
100%, but you got to get some credit to that Panthers defense too. They held Green Bay to six points in the first half, made them turn the ball over. They played good football, right? It was one of them type of games, right? But again, they did rush for 130 yards and two touchdowns. You know what I'm saying? You got to stop him, right? You got to, you know, to be able to rush the passer, you got to stop the run and be able to, that's your reward when you stop the run. You get the opportunity to rush after and get after the quarterback. If you don't do that.

Matt Ryan (19:53)
was going to say Rico Dado. Like you got to stop him too.

AD (20:06)
It don't matter how they beat you or how they score as long as they do it. And they did that. And they defense held up on the other side with the Panthers against Green Bay. Made them turn the ball over. Had a big pick. What was that in the third quarter? He had a big pick. Should have had another one late in the game. They dropped it in the end zone. So get some credit to them for finding a way to win the game, right? So ⁓ when you typically got a quarterback throwing 400 yards, typically that mean you, y'all had a great day and y'all probably beat the hell out of them. But it wasn't that case for this game. So at the end of the day, it's about winning, right?

Any way you can find a way to win a game, as long as you do it.

Matt Ryan (20:37)
Yeah, I think it typically means one of two things. You either, you know, blew this team out, right? He threw for 100 yards, you got after him. They couldn't do anything offensively. Or it means that they ran it down your throat and they weren't worried about throwing the football. ⁓ And, you know, it's probably somewhere in the middle right here ⁓ in terms of this game. you know, credit to Carolina. They've come out. I don't think anybody would have said, you know, nine games into it, we'd be

AD (20:49)
130 hours. ⁓

Matt Ryan (21:04)
talking about them sitting at five and four above 500, particularly if Rice Young was going to have stat lines like that 11 of 20, you know, right around a hundred yards passing, but every defensive coach I was ever around AD would say you have to earn the right to rush the passer and you earn the right to rush the passer by shutting down the run. And, and you know, I think there probably was

AD (21:06)
Yeah.

100 %?

correct.

Matt Ryan (21:29)
A bit of frustration from Mike and that's fair. A bit of frustration with the offense only scoring 13 points ⁓ and coming away from that game and feeling like defensively it was good enough to get the job done. But at the same time he said we, know, and I take that for all of us. I take Micah saying we needed to play better as we needed to play better against the run. We needed to play better offensively. We need to take the ball away when we had our opportunities.

We needed to do it better. I do think he's including the defense. I think he's including everybody in that comment.

Zach Klein (22:05)
So in no way is the media man right here in this podcast trying to stir the pot, but I am going to ask because he said the word we that was important to you, Matt. Otherwise you might have perceived that if you were in that locker room as a shot to the offense.

Matt Ryan (22:09)
Hahaha

Words, words, words

matter, Zach. Words matter. ⁓ And you know, what you say matters. ⁓ And he said, we. And so I'm always, always gonna, you know, side on the, or fall on the side of the player. ⁓ And you know, it's difficult when you're in front of the microphone, but he said, we, and I take him for his word.

AD (22:38)
Yeah.

Horma countable

Zach Klein (22:40)
All right,

hold him accountable. To your point, he said we. Listen, if he didn't say we, if he said, know, we shouldn't, it's all in the words, it's all in the language and the specific language, which brings me to this, Matt.

Matt Ryan (22:41)
What do you think, Zach? Hey, what do you think? Yeah.

I was going to say, about the Cincinnati? Do we got any of that audio?

Zach Klein (22:55)
Yes, this we

have this audio right here. A.D. shaking his head. This is a new ad to the podcast rundown. So the Bengals score in the final minute to go up in Chicago, 42 41.

They're up with 17 seconds to go. Chicago. Yeah.

T$ (23:08)
Hold on one second. Hold on.

Was this before or after Tremaine Edmonds had that amazing pick and that run back for a touchdown that got called back? He may or may not be a client. I was just asking for a friend.

Matt Ryan (23:18)
Okay, just get it out there.

Zach Klein (23:18)
If that

did happen, would... ⁓

T$ (23:20)
That's like just get out there. All

Matt Ryan (23:21)
Just

T$ (23:22)
right,

Matt Ryan (23:22)
get it in there, perfect. We'll cut that later. We'll cut that later, perfect.

T$ (23:22)
sorry. All right, thank you. Go ahead, keep going. Don't edit that shit either.

Zach Klein (23:24)
No, I'm

not. I'm just going to follow up. Are you going to appeal the NFL and say it should have been a pick six? Is that part of the appeal process? No. Okay. So while Micah Parsons did talk and said the word we, after that disappointing loss, several members of the Bengals defense that gave up that late touchdown did not talk to reporters. They no-showed. They weren't available after giving up that late lead.

T$ (23:32)
No, keep going.

Matt Ryan (23:32)
I don't think you'll

get it.

Zach Klein (23:50)
But one of the offensive guys was there, guys, Chase Brown. He's the Bengals running back.

Matt Ryan (23:54)
Look

at AD. He got the towel over his head.

AD (23:56)
I wouldn't think so much of my face neither,

Zach Klein (23:59)
No,

you would have showed up.

T$ (24:00)
I thought my computer froze.

Zach Klein (24:01)
So here is what happened and I'm just going to play this out and then Todd and I, we're going to shut up and then we are just going to get reaction from AD first about Chase Brown, the Bengals running back after this game. And this is courtesy of James Rapien. I think Rapien, I pronounced his name right from banglestalk.com. Here we go.

T$ (24:37)
I love the passion, personally.

AD (24:38)
Yeah, it's just frustration though, right? Who was the score of the game? 47 or what? 42? Like that's crazy. And then they scored fourth quarter with how much time left for that? When they drove down there and ended up getting that pass, they missed the tackle. He broke and scored a touchdown and ended. That's just bad football, man. So it sounds like a lot of frustration. Obviously, you know, we talk about defensive playing football, right? I think that showed the type of performance that that defense put out there.

Zach Klein (24:42)
4742.

Matt Ryan (24:43)
Foo.

AD (25:05)
Wasn't great. ⁓ I can't imagine, you know, being in that locker room with that team. Obviously when you think your offense drive down, score a touchdown, all we gotta do is stop them when we win this game. You know, you catch a ball, you miss a tackle, you break and score a touchdown. That's embarrassing, but it's a lot of frustration, it seems like, on that defense side of the ball. Some things they need to fix, trying to find a way to clean up. But it ain't looking too good for the Bengals right now, man. I feel like they season kinda, you know, going down the toilet right now, so.

Matt Ryan (25:32)
Yeah, those comments are that is that's not one week. One one weeks worth of comments, right? Like that's not a one off. Hey, we got in a shootout crazy game we lost. You know that that's been the case every week, you know for the Bengals. And so you know, I understand the frustration ⁓ when when you're playing.

AD (25:47)
Yes. Yep.

Matt Ryan (25:56)
in those types of games week in and week out. you're like, come on, man, get one stop, get one stop, get one stop. repeatedly, just, doesn't happen. So I'm with Todd. think, you know, I appreciate guys, passion, guys, energy, how much it means to them. ⁓ I think that is, that is evident, ⁓ in, in, those comments. ⁓ but it's hard because I've been a part of that.

you know, maybe not to not to this level, but I've been a part of it where seasons are like that. And you're playing and you're scoring points and you feel like, man, if we could just get one stop here, there, one stop here, there, we could we could have a very different record. But I would argue the other the the opposite is true, too. There are drives and there are points that the offense left on the field. ⁓ And, you know, you have to somehow some way ⁓

AD (26:30)
stuff.

Matt Ryan (26:47)
you know, go back and look at that tape and say, listen, there was more we could do offensively. And I think that's just the way you have to look at it as a competitor, as a teammate, you know, you have to control like a D and I keep going back to you have to control the things that you can control. And you can't go out there and make a tackle. can make a tackle as a quarterback. Chase Brown's not making a tackle as a running back out there on defense. You got to control the things you can control and try and find a way to do better. But I understand and get the frustration because that Bengals defense, I mean, it's bad. It's bad.

AD (27:16)
It

is.

Matt Ryan (27:16)
and

you watch them week in and week out. ⁓ you know, it's hard to watch. I sit next to Bill Cower every weekend and watch these games. he's like offended by the type of defense that they're playing, watching it as a defensive guy. It's offensive to him. And so that part is actually pretty funny to watch. Bill gets so frustrated with this stuff. But it is, I mean, it's hard to watch. It's hard to watch what they're doing defensively.

AD (27:21)
That's who they are.

Zach Klein (27:45)
AD, if that was your running back, you just put the defense on blast, was it best that it came in a bye week and you didn't have to see them on Monday? Or how would you have reacted?

AD (27:54)
I wouldn't be mad. You got to hold somebody accountable. It is the defense, right? Sometimes you got to hold people accountable. Maybe sometimes it ain't right to say it over the media, but sometimes you got to let guys know you got to do better, right? There's only so much the offense can do, so many points they can score. At the end of the day, the defense is getting paid on the opposite side to make tackles, to make plays, to help that team to win games, and they're not doing it.

It's frustration, definitely when you should have won a game, you feel like you should have won a game and you lose and you fall short of bad tackling, bad defense. Man, sometimes you gotta call people out sometimes, right?

Matt Ryan (28:29)
And it's like, what could you say? There ain't nothing you could say back to him.

AD (28:35)
And at that moment, he's mad as after, don't even, listen, I know how I was after a damn loss in the locker room and how to be in front, after that type of loss and how to speak. He did a great job, but he spoke and he felt how he felt and he said what he needed to say and the defense needed to hear that. And they got to do better, right? They got to, because what they've been putting on film the past couple of weeks ain't it.

Matt Ryan (28:54)
No, it is not it.

AD (28:56)
It's not it. It's not

my two worst defenses that I've been watching, no shade, but it would be the Bengals and what I seen last night with Dallas. That shit's horrible. It's just bad defense. It's just bad ball. So you can't win games with a defense like that. should say.

Zach Klein (29:11)
Why are they so bad?

AD (29:12)
What, which one? You gotta be able to stop the run, gotta be able to rush the pass, you gotta be a great defense overall, right? I just don't see it, right? I don't see no leadership on the defense. I don't see nobody bringing their guys up, saying nothing. I don't see none of this as a defense, right? And when you just out there, it's like they just out there, they just playing, right? It's like, it don't look like they playing for nothing. It don't look like they all on the same page. just things ain't clicking.

Zach Klein (29:14)
tell me, bangles cowboys.

AD (29:40)
You gotta be clicking, right? Everybody gotta be on the same page. You gotta communicate. You need great leadership. I don't see that in defenses. And to have a great defense, you need them traits on your field, on your defense, you know, to help, you know, be successful. If you don't got that, you're gonna get the performance you've been seeing. No matter how great your offense is, no matter how many pieces you got on offense, if you don't got that on defense, doing what they need to do on the opposite side of the ball, you don't got a chance to win games.

Matt Ryan (30:03)
I think it starts, I think it starts with stopping the run. Like we continue to go back to this, right, AD and both of these teams, when you watch Dallas and you watch Cincinnati, the inability to stop the run and to force ⁓ any team to be, you know, one dimensional to, to earn that right to rush to passer. And I don't think they can rush to passer regardless, but it starts with stopping the run. And when you watch that Chicago game, it was like right from the start.

AD (30:30)
Yup.

Matt Ryan (30:30)
Chicago was getting downhill under center, handing the ball off to the backs, getting downhill and just dominating the line of scrimmage. And the same is true in the Cowboys game. think Arizona goes for over a hundred yards rushing in that game last night too. And so it's, it starts at the line of scrimmage. Like before you can, you can even get to the secondary and the miss tackles in the secondary, the miss tackles at linebacker. You have to, you have to win on the line of scrimmage.

on the defensive side of the ball, both versus the run in the past, but it starts with the run. And I think both those teams do a poor job of that.

AD (30:57)
and then a donut,

Yeah.

Zach Klein (31:04)
Todd,

from ⁓ an agent standpoint, with what these guys are saying on stopping the run, are the guys in the trenches, are they the most quote unquote valuable assets to teams? Do they see it the same way and in that turn helps you in the negotiation process?

Matt Ryan (31:18)
Is

that the most valuable?

AD (31:20)
okay.

Zach Klein (31:21)
Defense. We're talking

defense. Defense. In stopping the run. Yes.

Matt Ryan (31:22)
Okay

T$ (31:24)
I mean.

AD (31:24)
Sound just like a quarterback over here, B, damn.

T$ (31:28)
Yeah, I you'll see, I I got to do is look at the pay scale, the defense alignment versus a linebacker versus a safety for sure. The trenches are going to get paid more and they're valued more because of that.

Zach Klein (31:37)
but not the most. We got you, man.

AD (31:40)
But what I will say about that Dallas game, think that Dante Fowler, he has some sparks out there. He has some good rushes. Clowney started to have some good rushes there after the quarterback and Clark, he had two sacks. So they made some plays, but again, when you can't stop the run and you can pop the ball, hand the ball off for 10 yards or pop 15 yards or pop it, then go off that and be able to, if it's third and 18, going against Dallas defense, you got a chance to make that first down. And it's showing on film. If you watch that on film, if it's third and long, you typically on.

T$ (31:48)
Yes.

Matt Ryan (31:56)
Bingo.

AD (32:09)
Three and out. If it's third and 15, first down. The draft continues. Them guys be out there so damn long, fatigued and tired. It's like, god, leave, man. But shit, they gotta do better as a defense, right? They gotta try to find ways to, I don't know what they can do, honestly. I know there people talking about trade and who could they trade for. They need to, they gonna trade the whole defense for a whole new defense? That's what it's like. I ain't trying to throw shit.

Zach Klein (32:24)
You

Matt Ryan (32:31)
It's not how works.

AD (32:32)
But that's not how it works though. I'm like, what do you do, man? I don't see it, man.

Zach Klein (32:35)
Hey, supply and

demand to AD, you're the demand, their supply out there is non-existent. mean, so Todd, AD, should we just break some, I mean, they need you, AD, I'm just saying, the Cowboys. Todd, you're in Dallas right now.

Matt Ryan (32:47)
Yeah.

AD (32:48)
Hahaha!

Zach Klein (32:48)
Anything? Bueller? Anything?

AD (32:49)
Hey, hey,

T$ (32:49)
nothing.

Yo.

AD (32:52)
hey, Ty, I need a lot of money to go Dallas right now. No, no, no, no, no, no, let me stop. Let me stop, let me stop.

T$ (32:57)
That's on the table. You didn't tell me that was even on the table. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Just, just saying. I know some people we can make some, some calls.

AD (33:04)
You

Zach Klein (33:05)
Another win for the new...

AD (33:09)
I'm gonna be out there getting jumped. What am I gonna be able to do? Just getting blocked by four people every play? Hell no. No thank you. No thank you.

Zach Klein (33:16)
We started out the season talking about AD getting double and triple teams midway through this podcast series talking about getting a quad as the only member of the Dallas Cowboys.

One team is getting some dubs. The New England Patriots, are now seven and two ESPN's Mike Reese throwing out this great stat about the Patriots receivers, Matt, that in their nine games so far, they've had six different guys lead this team in receiving. What does that do for a quarterback?

Matt Ryan (33:40)
You're spreading it around, which is awesome, right? ⁓ You're going to where coverage dictates. And I think that's one of the things Drake May is doing such a good job of right now is, Josh McDaniel is creating favorable matchups. He's going, he's throwing the ball where it should go. And he's not worried about ⁓ force feeding one guy. And I think that makes it all the more difficult. I think AD can speak to it when you've got multiple pieces that you can use.

AD (33:41)
Yes.

Matt Ryan (34:07)
and a defense can't key in on one particular player, it makes it really difficult to defend. But you gotta have guys to be able to do that. And in New England, ⁓ I've been impressed. I mean, I've been impressed with the number of different guys that are out there making plays, whether it's K. Shambhuti, Demario Douglas, different guys like that, tight ends. We've got Austin Hooper, who I played with, is playing really, really well up there. Hunter Henry's doing a great job. They're using the backs well. Ramandre Stevenson ⁓ has been making plays too. So I think it...

It's great as a quarterback when you got multiple pieces that you can go out there and use. But you have to have the guy that can do it too. And I think that, you know, part of the reason all of these different guys are having the type of success that they're having is because I think Drake may is playing really good football. And that's the hope when you draft a young player in the top three at the quarterback position, he'll, he'll elevate the people around him. ⁓ He'll bring them. He'll bring the best out of them.

AD (34:44)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Matt Ryan (35:05)
And

I think you're seeing that right now. Drake May is making all of these players around him play at their very best levels, and that's why they're having success. So I think it's a combination of two. They got a lot of pieces, but he's also making all of those pieces more valuable and doing a great job of distributing the football.

T$ (35:23)
AD is it harder when you're facing like a team that has a typical go-to number one, so to speak, versus having a whole bunch of guys that, yeah.

AD (35:31)
Multiple, yeah.

Well, it kind of spread that secondary thin, right? You got multiple options. You just can't focus on one or two guys. It's multiple guys, right? And definitely as a pass rusher, it's frustrating because you're hoping them guys are getting covered. So you got an opportunity to put the pressure, get the quarterback, to get the sacks. But when it's multiple guys, you got to worry about, you know, it's a lot of game planning that a defense got to do to try and find a way to make sure the matchups is right. And there's no match matches to the point where they can pick you apart. So. ⁓

Yeah, they're a tough team. A lot of good pieces around them. They're playing good football. They're a tough team to stop right now.

Matt Ryan (36:05)
I think this whole podcast we've been talking about running the football, but I think for New England, the reason they've got the number of guys that they have ⁓ with multiple hundred yard games in the passing game is because they're come out. mean, Zach, you watched that Atlanta game. They came out, their game plan was we're going to run it right down your throat and we're going to, we're going to be physical. We are going to pound the football and we are going to force you to come up a D and play eight man spacing, have eight guys around the ball.

Zach Klein (36:23)
right down the pipe.

AD (36:31)
Yeah.

Matt Ryan (36:33)
Well, what does that do for multiple targets, right? We've got multiple one-on-ones on the outside, which is favorable for guys that might not be household names, right? You have the opportunity to go win those one-on-ones, but it starts with the run game in New England, and Josh McDaniel's doing a good job with that.

AD (36:34)
And then spread the ball out, Yep.

And it make it, that's why I said it make it hard for a defense to try to game plan against that team, right? So they're a complete team, right? Definitely on the off the side of the ball, so.

Zach Klein (36:51)
Mack Hollins, Pop Douglas.

Matt Ryan (36:58)
Mm-hmm.

Zach Klein (36:59)
what would think that if you're a wide receiver, you're like, they're calling you right now. Every row, I'd receive your head. Give me, if you're not the star receiver on your team, give me new England, get me new New England. Um,

that seems like a pretty good situation and people hit you up about that. Not

T$ (37:10)
I'm sure you could have it both ways, I selfishly as an agent, you want to have a guy, if you're to have a number one guy, you want a number one guy who's constantly getting the ball and have it as much production as possible when you go to do his contract. But I think the number one thing you want when you have a receiver is you want a good quarterback with a good old line and who has potential to at least get you the ball. ⁓ And that's obviously happening. And so you can't necessarily control every ball coming your way as a receiver. ⁓ I just think that it's a huge positive to have a young, good quarterback that it gives you the shot to get that ball.

AD (37:24)
Mm-hmm.

T$ (37:39)
Again, selfishly, think you want all of it coming your way. But at the end of the day, I also don't have to have my receiver be the leading receiver every week. I just need to have a receiver be productive because production equals higher money and a good better contract and happiness with the receiver. Because as Matt said, he's never played where a receiver hasn't come running to him in the huddle, how open he is or give me the ball. And you want that. You want those guys to do that. I mean, you would be like if you had a receiver who was satisfied with never getting the ball, like that's a problem. Like and I have a guy that I'm not going to talk about, but

Matt Ryan (37:59)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

You don't have the

guy.

T$ (38:08)
No, exactly. I have a guy who I'm not going to name names, but he's he's frustrated. He's not getting the rocket as much. And I tell him, I go, your emotion, that's exactly what you should feel like. If you didn't feel this, I'd actually have questions for you. So it's OK and hang in there. And by the way, the next week, it completely changes. So it's like week to week and the game plans dictate things. And he could be featured in certain things and it doesn't happen the week next week. He's like, I don't get much ball in practice and I'm not going to get the ball this week. I don't think there's not much call for me. Meanwhile.

AD (38:26)
Yep.

T$ (38:35)
He ended up getting a ton because things change in the flow, right, Matt? Like it's not, you you go into thinking this is going to happen and then you adapt to how the game goes and it's a whole different animal.

Matt Ryan (38:38)
Absolutely.

I'll say this, I'll say this about New England. As much as we've given them love and as well as they have played and as great as they have distributed the ball, if they had a true alpha at one with the way that they run the ball, a true dog one wide receiver, like I think that's a piece they're missing. If they really wanna be, you know, Super Bowl contender, you're talking about going and playing against the best of the best in the AFC, whether you're taking on.

Buffalo again, or you're taking on Kansas City in the playoffs or Denver's defense right now. Like I still think ⁓ they might be a few pieces away and they've got lots of money, right? Todd lots of money to spend this coming free agency. We'll see if anything happens. You know, this is going to come out on on Wednesday. We're recording this on Tuesday, but we'll see if something happens this afternoon and they're aggressive in that department because I do think as good as they've been, they could they could be even better.

AD (39:13)
Mm-mm.

Matt Ryan (39:36)
with a true dog at the one spot for wide receiver form.

Zach Klein (39:40)
know, Stefan's not a true dog.

AD (39:42)
That's what I was gonna say to you. It's just not.

Matt Ryan (39:42)
No, he was. He was. ⁓

it's just not that part of his career. And I love Steph Diggs, right? And I think he's playing really well and he was as good as anybody, ⁓ in his prime. ⁓ you know, but I don't think he's at that part of his career and that's not a shot on him. Like I think he's had a hell of a career. ⁓ I just don't think, I think there are other guys in the league that you would categorize in front of maybe a Stefan Diggs.

AD (39:47)
Yeah.

Zach Klein (40:08)
We're moving on to the NFC West and it is loaded. You got Seattle six and two, the Rams six and two, San Francisco six and three. And Mack Jones was asked by a reporter, do you feel like you've been allowed to be yourself here more than at any other organization? says, I really do feel that way. You know, it's not a knock on anybody else, not a knock on any of those teams. I just feel like this organization has a lot of laid back people and that's my more of my personality. ⁓

How much of that matter, that factor, that comfortability play into his success, his mindset and what he's able to do out West?

Matt Ryan (40:38)
I mean, I take him for his word on it, right? That's the way he feels right now and feels like he's playing his best football in that environment. like, played pretty good at Alabama. And ⁓ I can't imagine the Saban model there was laid back. Yeah, right? Like there had to have been ⁓ something that worked for him in that Alabama ⁓ situation as well. I think it comes down to play caller. I really do.

AD (40:52)
was laid back.

100 %

Matt Ryan (41:05)
I think it comes down when you look at what he did in New England with Josh McDaniel, his, his rookie year, he played very good football. ⁓ and I think went to the pro bowl as a rookie, ⁓ you know, in, in his first season. And then it changed, right? You had Joe judge. And I think Matt Patricia became his, his offensive coordinators who were special teams and defensive coaches. And then he moves on and he goes to different spots and then ends up, in San Francisco. So I think, I think part of it is.

Yeah, maybe he feels that way because it's a little more laid back and you know, but Kyle can still be Kyle can be tough. You know he can be really difficult at times. So I think there is probably some of that to the laid back. What I think is more important, at least from my perspective, is the guy that's calling plays and the scheme that he's running and being in a position to be successful over and over and over. And it's amazing how when you have a little bit of success, the whole atmosphere starts to feel better, right?

the vibe is a little bit better, confidence is there, you start feeling a little bit better about yourself. And I'm happy for Mac that he has that.

AD (42:03)
confidence.

is half the battle. You got that confidence to go out there and know you can do it. He go out there and he's doing it. He got some players around him that it ain't really got to put it all on his shoulders though, right? You know, you can spread the ball out high and you need to spread it out. They do a good job of doing play action and the certain things to get easy passes for them. So, and once you do that and you see the success, you having a success, you feeling good, you know, that play a huge part in it as well, right? So, and anybody can do that. Anybody can do that. Now I can play that. No, I'm just joking.

T$ (42:33)
Listen, situation matters.

Matt Ryan (42:36)
Yeah, get out. Anybody

can do it. Get out of here. All right. Get, I'm so sick of that. Yeah.

AD (42:40)
Put me in quarterback and I can do that.

T$ (42:40)
mean, it's true though for players,

I situation matters, coaching matters, supporting cast matters, system matters, scheme, whether it's offense, defense, all that stuff matters. And for good or bad, you can have a guy who's productive and it changes and then he's not as good or vice versa. You take a guy who wasn't successful, put him somewhere else and all of a sudden he flourishes. So it works both ways. I've said it multiple times, even when it comes to draft, I'd rather have a guy go a little bit lower to the right place.

AD (42:49)
Yeah.

T$ (43:06)
than higher and not in the right fit because that's not what's going to make them work big time for the future.

Matt Ryan (43:10)
And

I feel like I'm hammering this home all all podcasts, but like they run the ball well and you know, and they make it difficult on defenses and you've got to come up. You've got to stop the run. You've got to stop Christian McCaffrey. You've got to stop their scheme. And what does that do? It opens up lanes to throw the football. So as much as we can talk about the past game and I love talking about the past game, ⁓ you know, I feel like we've gone back and

AD (43:17)
Yes.

Open up,

Matt Ryan (43:35)
you know, for this entire episode of just talking about it all starts with the run game, stopping the run, being able to run the football. If you can do that, you're going to be successful. And that's what that's allowed Mac to be so successful.

AD (43:39)
Mm-hmm.

Zach Klein (43:46)
If I were to give you a hundred adjectives to describe Kyle Shanahan, would laid back be one of them?

Matt Ryan (43:51)
No. I mean,

AD (43:52)
Hahaha

Matt Ryan (43:53)
Zach, you've been around him. That's why I laugh when I saw those comments. I'm like, wow, there must be some other laid back people in that building.

Zach Klein (44:00)
Yeah, there's something, maybe some

smoke in the air, it's California cool, know, don't know what the legal shit out there, I don't know, I'm not alleging anything, I'm just saying, it's little different vibe.

Matt Ryan (44:03)
Right.

AD (44:04)
What?

Matt Ryan (44:06)
Yes.

AD (44:07)
That's the legal shit.

Matt Ryan (44:09)
Yeah, laid back.

laid back would not be the one thing I would and I love listen. I love Kyle Shanahan. Love him. He's an excellent coach. He is not laid back. He is not laid back. He is up tight. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Zach Klein (44:21)
No, I second that.

T$ (44:24)
He's only

laid back when he's talking to you in your headset when you make a bad play and then he tells you you can't you haven't earned the right to throw it. You got to run it. Yeah, exactly.

Matt Ryan (44:27)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right. Here's the draw. Here we go. Run the draw, Matt. You

AD (44:29)
Yeah.

Matt Ryan (44:33)
have not earned the right to throw it.

Zach Klein (44:37)
So good. Well, there's another open spot in the college football rings guys. Hugh Freeze bounced at Auburn and Todd and I were trading text messages because I wasn't, you know, texting with you guys because I wasn't on those. Did you guys work out by the way? you guys work out by the way?

Matt Ryan (44:49)
So that's the third separate group, group,

no, Todd has not been to the workout yet. The other guys are asking about it too. The other guys are starting to ask about it. You know, when's Todd coming? When's Todd coming?

Zach Klein (44:56)
Okay, just double, just make it, okay.

AD (45:01)
We'll that work, Todd.

Zach Klein (45:03)
Mm-hmm, okay.

AD (45:04)
Get to work,

T$ (45:04)
I'm bringing my video guy too. Go ahead.

Matt Ryan (45:07)
Please don't, please don't. All right, perfect. Yeah, okay.

T$ (45:09)
yeah, we're gonna get some clips of you. They'll never talk about working out with me again. Go ahead.

Zach Klein (45:13)
The expectation and the pressure and the unrealistic scope some of these fan bases have Steve Sarkeesian five years at Texas took over a seven and three team with deep NIL pockets. He's 45 and 19 overall top coach Arch Manning. Josh Heupel five years at Tennessee took over a three and 17 had some limitations with scholarships. They're NIL nowhere near Texas. 43 and 18. It's not really good enough. Dewfries obviously wasn't good enough. He's bounced.

Where do you guys take this college football landscape, these openings and some of these fan bases where you can have comparable records? One view it as a, we're here on the doorstep of everything. And the other says, you know what? We just need to get rid of everybody and then fire sale.

Matt Ryan (45:53)
It's out of control. I mean, in my opinion, it's out of control and you talk about it. I mean, I guess the one difference you could make in the Sark Hypal thing is Sark has had them in the college football playoff in the semi finals the last two years and Josh Hypal took them to the playoff last year. I think they lost. I think they lost to I think they lost to Ohio State. So you lost a national champion in the playoff. ⁓ It's it's

Zach Klein (46:13)
to Ohio State on the road, yeah.

Matt Ryan (46:22)
It's ridiculous. It's outrageous. Josh Hypple is a good football coach. He has done an excellent job at Tennessee. They're relevant again, you know, which I think is is huge for the University of Tennessee. I have a lot of friends that are UT supporters that are UT ⁓ alum and you know from them, I don't get the sense that they're disappointed with Josh. So I I'm confused with where you know that that narrative is coming from from that fan base that

that being relevant, that being a part of it, that having night games at Neyland Stadium again on prime time isn't good enough. You're gonna lose football games. The landscape of college football is as competitive as it's ever been because of NIL. And you can have programs that aren't historical programs now be just as significant. And I think we're seeing it every week. But to think Josh Heupel needs to go, I think that's outrageous. It's crazy to me.

AD (47:06)
Yeah.

T$ (47:18)
I

can't wait till we have some shows and we talk to NIL because and we should we will do that coming up especially with the portal opening in the college season ending and all that type of stuff it'll be really interesting but you know I read a Jerry Jones comment about the changing defensive coordinator so many times and it affecting ⁓ his team do you guys think with these coaching changes you know from an offensive perspective different different coach different scheme different culture different

Matt Ryan (47:35)
Yeah.

T$ (47:47)
playbook, you gotta learn a whole new thing. Same thing on defense, like does that affect you guys when these changes happen? And obviously at the pro level it's one thing, maybe college it's different, then you have the recruiting aspect in college, some of these kids are signing because of the coach, some of them are just signing because they wanna go to that school, so it's not as big of a deal. But like how does all that play in when all these coaching changes are always happening?

Matt Ryan (48:06)
Well, I think all of these coaches changes happening, right? And the scheme changing, you recruit and you draft and you build your roster for a certain scheme. And I think that's what Jerry's talking about. And I actually respect him for that. Having looked at it and saying, you know what? I've had too much turnover, some of that because Dan Quinn left to take a head coaching gig. ⁓ But I've had too much turnover at the defensive coordinator position.

And each guy that comes in is different and is asking for different types of pieces. It becomes really difficult to build a really solid group when you've got coaches that are coming in and asking guys to do things that maybe they're not capable of, but they did well in the last game. It's really, really difficult. And I think that's

T$ (48:51)
Because

everyone's not an Aaron Donnell who fits any scheme no matter who the coach is, right?

Matt Ryan (48:54)
No, most

do not fit every scheme, Aaron Donald's the unicorn, right?

AD (48:58)
But I don't

fit every scheme. I'm not a two gap guy. couldn't go when there's still just two gap and then play a true three man front. And you want me to just play this and play a gap, C gap or A gap. I could do it sometimes, but that's not my game. I'm a penetrator. Like I can do it, but I wanna get the plays and make the plays in the backfield. I don't wanna make a two yard tackle. I wanna make a two yard loss or a five yard loss. So it depends, man. That can affect the player in a lot of different ways, right? Like he said, you...

Matt Ryan (49:10)
You're a penetrate.

AD (49:24)
It's like going to a new team every single year when you changing up a scheme, right? If you're a four or three team and you change up to a three, four, whatever the case is, it's like, all right, now you gotta learn new technique how to play this position, right? Same thing with me from growing up playing a four or three my whole life, right? And then going to like the new age four or three, that's like that three man front, but it's really like you got your way on your sound backers outside. So now I gotta play a four out. Now I gotta learn how to strike and use my technique instead of just penetrating and leaving a crease because it's a different game. It's a different. ⁓

you know, different schemes, different things you got to do. when you change that up, it's hard for you to grasp that. And it's good to learn different schemes anyway, but it's hard to grasp that sometimes and get everybody on the same page. Definitely if you draft this guy to be a three, five in, and now you go to a four, three, now you got to put his hand in the dirt. You don't know how that'd affect the guy. He might can't do it. He's not able to do that. And then now you got to try to find a new piece to the puzzle, to pit here and pit here.

And you never get this as a defense, right? That's the main goal is to try to get a defense to everybody on the same page. Everybody know what they need to do. Everybody got experience of playing the same defense, understanding how this guy play, how this guy play. And when you keep changing it every year, it's harder, like trying to get yourself going like that. So that can affect it in a lot of ways.

Zach Klein (50:31)
So that's why,

that's what I love about this podcast. It's so educational. And the AD saying that he cannot go to every single scheme defensively, but he can go to the offensive scheme in San Francisco and be quarterback. can plug and play right there. Way to go AD. AD. Yeah.

AD (50:42)
You

Matt Ryan (50:46)
love it. Hey, my last thing on my last thing on this, Zach

is like, and Sark said it like, who are you gonna get? Everybody's getting fired. We're cutting everybody. We want to get rid of quarterbacks after a year. Like, who are you gonna get? Who's gonna come in? Who's gonna be a better football coach than Josh Heupel at the University of Tennessee? Like, I have no idea. And he has not been we're not saying that. But like, the frustration with them is like, who are you gonna get?

AD (50:54)
Yeah.

Zach Klein (51:10)
Sure, sure.

AD (51:13)
Yeah.

Matt Ryan (51:13)
that

is better than him right now. No one.

Zach Klein (51:14)
What's the plan exactly?

AD hit us up. We need some theme music. We'll get some for your defensive player of the week. Who we got. And I'm sure if you want this week, we can start a new episode, your NFC defensive rookie of the week honors. can do that as well. We do.

AD (51:27)
So I do got a defensive rookie of the week, but this week I ain't got,

I don't just got one guy, I just got, I just put two defenses down. I just went straight defense this week. So I'm gonna give some light to Nolan, the rookie D tackle 97 for Arizona, his first rookie start right this week, first time playing.

Zach Klein (51:34)
Okay.

T$ (51:43)
Yeah, he was out all season because of a calf. So this was his first game. Yes. In Dallas last night, I was there watching.

AD (51:48)
So

three tackles, a sack, batted pass in his debut. I think that sack he had was in the fourth quarter too, wasn't it? Fourth quarter, yeah, fourth quarter with five minutes left in the game. So was a big sack in the game. He played some good football, man. So good job, big dog, for your first rookie game. To go out there and show up, you clap it up. And a big one for them on prime time Monday night ball, man.

T$ (51:56)
Yeah, I don't remember.

Zach Klein (52:06)
Clap it up to Walter Nolten.

AD (52:12)
I had to get some light to my Rams defense, man. I think they've been playing good. They last three games they played, it might be a little bias, huh? But ⁓ they played, they played what? The Ravens beat them seven, only gave up three points. They played the Jags, beat them, only gave up seven points. And then they just beat the Saints, man, and only gave up 10 points. So they've been playing some good ball. That's 20 points in three games, man. So.

Matt Ryan (52:19)
That's all right.

AD (52:35)
A lot of improvement from what they've been doing. I think the secondary been playing a lot better. Obviously up front they've been getting after it, man. So just wanted to show some light to my Rams. But I also want to give a shout out to the Steelers defense. The last two weeks been tough for them, They've been giving up a lot, but they played a good coach team with an explosive offense and they did what they needed to do and play some good ball to help them win that game, man. Made some plays, got after the quarterback, TJ White with that big strip sack for them.

Matt Ryan (52:45)
Mm-hmm.

AD (53:01)
to get the ball back and get the ball to Aaron Rodgers to go down there and score, man. So shout out to the Steelers for a big turnaround week, you know, after having two bad weeks, man. So I just wanted to show some light to them, man. Shout out to the Steelers defense, man. Clap it up for them. They needed that. They needed that confidence back, baby. And that's like the Steel City right there, man. So let's keep it up, fellas. Keep it up.

Zach Klein (53:21)
Keep it up, keep it up. That you do.

Matt Ryan (53:21)
Five turnovers, you usually win.

AD (53:23)
Yes,

Matt Ryan (53:24)
Well done.

AD (53:25)
playing good ball though. Last two weeks.

Zach Klein (53:26)
Two minutes real

time, Matt. Get that clock ready. Hit us. Let's do it.

Matt Ryan (53:29)
Clock's up and running. All right. Order.

We're going to start with a D then we'll go Todd, Zach. Okay. All right. Here we go. All right. A D you've been talking about being able to play quarterback in Kyle Shanahan system. ⁓ I got a question for you though. Would you rather play quarterback for Kyle or would you rather play for Sean? Sean. Okay. All day. One word answer. I love it. All right, Todd, more stressful trade deadline. We've seen you checking your phone trade deadline, free agency or the draft.

AD (53:45)
Sean. Yeah, duh.

T$ (53:56)
Free agency, for sure. Yes.

Matt Ryan (53:57)
free agency number one.

Okay, Zack, what sport has the best trade deadline? What sport provides the most entertainment at the trade deadline? It's not even close. It's not even close. Yeah. Massive superstars moving. It changed the dynamic of the whole league. All right, AD, we're back to you. Rams, you've been talking on them. Defense giving them a shout out. Are they the best team in the NFC?

Zach Klein (54:06)
the NBA trading deadline because those guys move, it's not even close. There's always chaos there. A lot more movement, lot bigger names.

Yes.

AD (54:24)
and the NFC.

Yeah, I will say that. They've been playing good. Offensive, solid defense. We're playing a lot better. I will say, yeah, right now at this point in time in the season, yes.

Matt Ryan (54:32)
All right, Todd, trade deadline this afternoon. If you could trade one member of the inner circle, who is getting traded and who is coming in?

Zach Klein (54:39)
I'm out boys. We'll see you guys in a little bit. Thanks for joining us.

T$ (54:44)
⁓

Zach Klein, ⁓ we enjoy your presence and we appreciate it. No, I wouldn't trade any of you guys. You guys are all not tradable. I appreciate everybody. No, no, yeah, we, we did kill it this weekend. Yeah, no, for sure.

Zach Klein (54:52)
You can't trade your pickleball partner. You can't trade your pickleball partner. We killed it this weekend.

AD (54:52)
Yeah.

Matt Ryan (54:54)
Yeah.

done. Well done at pickleball. And thank you for not trading me. I appreciate that. ⁓ Zach, our resident sec expert. We're talking coaches, coaching changes, lane kiffin. Where does he end up? Does he stay at Ole Miss? Does he go to Florida? Does he go to LSU? What is your very early prediction?

Zach Klein (55:00)
Good job, clap it up.

AD (55:03)
Hahaha

Zach Klein (55:17)
Early prediction is he makes more money and he stays in Oxford, Mississippi. He's got a great thing going. Todd mentions it all the time. Grass always isn't greener on the other side. I think Len Kiffin stays at Ole Miss.

Matt Ryan (55:27)
Bam, that wraps our two minute, two five. Well done, Well done.

Zach Klein (55:29)
Let's go. You think he stays there by the way?

T$ (55:31)
Is that a record?

Matt Ryan (55:32)
I kind of think he stays there. I do. I think, you the more you watch it, like, what would make, what would make going to a place like LSU right now or Florida, where it's been a struggle the last handful of years, any more lucrative if the money isn't different than what he's doing in all, you know, in Oxford. I just think it's so different now. Why would you leave?

Zach Klein (55:53)
Yeah. No need. It's like the NFL. mean, in terms of, there's no, in the college football, you would have two or three great teams every year that were just so far away better than everybody else. And now you don't have that.

Matt Ryan (56:06)
Yeah, I think the tearing

system like the blue blood system that part is evaporating

T$ (56:12)
The behind the scenes, forgetting how much he's going to get paid or not, the behind the scenes, the booster money that's being raised, the corporate money that's being raised, all these extra resources that are going to be thrown at the coach to say, we're going to have all this extra, above and beyond rev share money that you can use at your discretion to acquire more players. That type of stuff is going to be there too, because he's going to get paid whether he's at Ole Miss, he's going get paid where goes to LSU, wherever he goes. It's what extras are you going to do to be able to help me fund and have the best team?

AD (56:37)
Yeah, but...

Matt Ryan (56:38)
Which makes

sense, then there also is, I think if you're weighing this, there's also the, you know, but how long is my lease going to be here? You know, if, I leave, if I leave Ole Miss and they're thrilled with what we're doing and where we're trending and where we're going and I leave and I go to Florida, what if, you know, you were given all of that to Billy Napier, you were giving all of that to, you know,

Zach Klein (56:59)
Will Musch,

they're paying, they've paid four coaches right now, they will be at Florida.

T$ (57:02)
No, I was saying

Ole Miss is going to be doing that to keep him for sure. Yeah, I agree.

Matt Ryan (57:05)
Absolutely, absolutely.

Zach Klein (57:05)
Mm, yeah.

going to put a bow on this show. Gentlemen,

much love. We appreciate you. We'll see you guys next week on the Inner Circle.