Jon Gruden joins The Inner Circle

Super Bowl–winning head coach Jon Gruden jumps into the Inner Circle for a no-BS masterclass in real football. At 62, he’s still living like an NFL coach.. in the office early, two servers full of tape, grading quarterbacks on feet, decisions and every throw. and he’s not shy about what’s gone wrong with today’s game.

Gruden and Matt go deep on what truly separates great quarterbacks from the rest: protections, communication and timing. They tie Rich Gannon’s late-career breakout in Oakland to what we’re seeing now from Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold and Daniel Jones — and why fit, coaching and system can either bury a QB or unlock him. Gruden breaks down his famous R-C-E mantra (Recognize, Communicate, Execute), trashes lazy pass protection, and explains why he hates wristband quarterbacks and RPOs being labeled “play-action.”

Then it’s Aaron Donald time. Gruden calls AD’s Senior Bowl “the greatest I’ve ever seen,” compares him to Reggie White and Warren Sapp, and jokes teams should call him “Burger King” because “he has it his way” with offensive guards. AD answers with how he studied formations, exploited tendencies, handled double and triple teams, and why the game slowed down once he mastered film.

AD also pulls back the curtain on Sean McVay’s arrival in L.A. — accountability, every detail buttoned up, the standard for stars and rookies exactly the same. Matt counters with how switching his footwork in Atlanta helped fuel his MVP season and why learning the pass game under center still matters in a shotgun world.

Plus: leadership, healthy friction between great QBs and demanding coaches, and an instant-classic Bill Cowher beer story from a military trip to Iraq. Football junkies will live in this episode.

https://www.youtube.com/@TheInnerCirclePod

https://open.spotify.com/show/2HYa5USGooRmeXxKKGyT0l?si=4a20e67b0b864b8b

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-inner-circle/id1837695806

Transcript

Zach Klein (00:00)
Hey, how we doing, everybody? Thanks for hanging out with us here on the Inner Circle Podcast. Appreciate your time. Please hit the like and subscribe button. We have an amazing show for you today. One of the brightest minds in the history of football. A former Super Bowl champion head coach.

Currently a media star representing and dominating with the good folks over at Barstool He and Matt Ryan have so much fun talking about Defenses how to dissect him what makes great quarterbacks what makes bad quarterback play why he can't stand the quarterbacks currently that are forced to go to the wrist He's talking Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams in Chicago the one player he couldn't beat defensively So he made sure his team signed him and got him on his squad and he ends with a fantastic story

Hanging out with Coach Cower in Iraq looking for beers. Enjoy the conversation with the legend, Jon Gruden.

Coach Gruden (00:48)
this crowd, man. Hall of Famer, man. Aaron Donald and Matty Ice.

AD (00:48)
What up, what up? What up, coach?

Matt (00:51)
You

Coach Gruden (00:54)
how you doing? I was at that pit game when they retired your jersey.

AD (00:57)
Yeah, well, it was a good ceremony. It ain't play out how it was supposed to play out, but it was a good environment.

Coach Gruden (01:03)
Yeah, great to see you guys. Thanks for having me on.

Matt (01:05)
Yeah, thank you.

T$ (01:05)
Hey coach,

Zach Klein (01:06)
and coach.

AD (01:06)
Thanks for coming

on, coach.

T$ (01:07)
coach I remember you from when I had, was really young in the business still, but I had Lomas Brown for like that one or two years that he was in Tampa with you.

Coach Gruden (01:13)
Yeah,

yeah, that was great, man.

I was in Tampa, I was the head coach and Bill Parcells was running the Miami Dolphins and they had the number one pick. And my offensive line coach was Bill Muir. And I told Bill Muir, said, if the Dolphins take Jake Long, I'm gonna punch you in the face. Because I knew Atlanta was gonna get Matt Ryan. And I couldn't believe it. They took Jake Long and I swear I took a swing at Bill, he ducked.

T$ (01:17)
Super Bowl.

AD (01:34)
Hahaha

Coach Gruden (01:40)
Every time I see you, Matt, I think about that. you're really a big reason why I got fired in Tampa with you coming to Atlanta.

Matt (01:47)
Well,

can Drew and I get a cut of whatever revenue you guys grew from the FFCA? Cause I feel like, I feel like we earned a little bit of that cut.

Coach Gruden (01:50)
Yeah, Yeah,

AD (01:53)
Hahaha

Coach Gruden (01:56)
yes, you did. I'm honored to be here. I love both you guys. Big, big fans, man. Big fans.

AD (02:01)
I appreciate

it. Appreciate it.

Matt (02:02)
No, well, we appreciate

you coming on. And so I'm always curious, you you're in that coaching world, that coaching mindset all the time. What does your week look like now? Obviously you got other responsibilities. You're doing a great job with Barstool and going on and creating content with them, but are you still game planning? Are you still in there grinding on tape? Are you looking at defenses and saying, how would I put together a game plan this week to go against whoever it may be?

Coach Gruden (02:25)
Yeah, pretty much. get all the tapes. come in here and I, my schedule really hasn't changed since I got into coaching. I just love coming in here, staying on top of the trends, what's going on. I got new coaches, new players, new schemes, people adapt into different senses of adversity. know, injuries happen. I just love

really changed that much. I still talk to a lot of coaches in the league. There's some players in the league. I send little tip sheets to and s

I try to encourage people, not always technical stuff, but I just love it, man. And this is the best time of year. This is when the games really start to matter.

AD (03:00)
Yes. Yes. So what you trying to give us a hint that you gonna come back coaching or something? You still got the itch. You still got the itch it sound like.

Coach Gruden (03:04)
Yeah, I'm always prepared to man. I do have the itch.

I mean, look at me man. I'm itching. ⁓ I just know I could help a team. I know I could help develop some players. That's just what I was born to do. I'm still doing it behind the scenes. I got a great job, Matt, like you said. Barstool has been phenomenal. A lot of young, creative sports people. So I'm having a good time. I just love football and I think that's pretty obvious.

AD (03:10)
Hahaha

Matt (03:23)
Mm-hmm.

Zach Klein (03:32)
so coach, got, I know we got Matt with a 2-1-1 record against you. AD went undefeated, man. What do you remember about those battles with Matt and the Falcons and that Raiders 33-13 beat down in 2018 and AD and the Rams?

Coach Gruden (03:46)
Is that why you guys

brought me on here? So you're two celebrity hosts. You know, I'm not ashamed to lose the Aaron Donald and Matt Ryan, just so you know. You know, I think we had Chris Sims and Bruce Gradkowski and Luke McCown and Tim Rattay. We were going through quarterbacks like we were changing shirts, but you know, Matt Ryan is Matt Ryan. mean, hell, that was a great team. That Roddy White.

Matt (03:48)
Hahaha

T$ (03:48)
Hahaha

Matt (03:55)
You

Coach Gruden (04:10)
You know, they had Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez in free agency. That was a hell of an offensive scheme. Dirk Koetter was a great coach and they had some closers on defense. mean, they had Abraham and they had some guys that could play defense as well. That was a good Falcon team. And as far as Aaron Donald is concerned, I never really wanted to see Aaron Donald again after that day. You know I mean?

AD (04:31)
You

Matt (04:32)
Hey, you and

me both.

Coach Gruden (04:34)
You know, there's so many people and you know this, Aaron, Jeff Fisher is a good friend of mine. You slipped in the draft. You slip because you just aren't a real tall guy with the prototype size and length. But I want everybody to know this out there. I still have the clips and I show them to young players of you at the senior bowl kicking every single offensive lineman's ass. And you would walk the offensive lineman back to the quarterback and sprint back to get some more of somebody else.

AD (04:44)
Yeah.

this.

Yup, yes sir.

Coach Gruden (05:03)
The effort

that you put on tape that week, it's legendary. It's the greatest senior bowl performance I have ever seen. And I mean that, man. I still use that as tape to show young players how it's done.

AD (05:10)
wow. I appreciate that.

T$ (05:16)
I was, don't know football like you guys all do, but being there as his agent, I was like, it was like him going up against me. The only person that remotely gave him any sort of competition in one-on-one reps was Zach Martin. And it wasn't even that close. He killed it. It was awesome. It's so funny you bring that up. Yeah, I know, I know. We'll have Zach on.

Coach Gruden (05:28)
Yeah, Zach Marks from Nodal.

Matt (05:29)
He turned out to be a pretty good player too, Todd.

John, I've told this story on our pod before about playing the Rams in the playoff. Steve Sarkeesian is our offensive coordinator. So we have our whole game plan. We go through it in the first half. Somehow we have a lead at halftime, right? There was just the way the game shook out. And so we're in front and start comes in at halftime and he goes, Hey, all that shit we worked on during the week, it's done. He said, for the rest of the game, we're going to run quick game. We're going to run the football or we're moving the pocket or throwing screens. That's it. Cause we can't block them. Have you ever

AD (06:01)
Hahaha.

Matt (06:02)
Have you ever had an instance like that where you're going in at halftime, right? And whether it's going against somebody like AD or a defensive player where you just say, hey, that game plan that we put in is not gonna work. We can't block this guy. Here's what we're doing in the second half.

Coach Gruden (06:14)
Well, I'm not the dumbest guy. I when I was in Green Bay with Mike Holmgren we couldn't block Reggie White, so we signed him in free agency. So that ended that problem. And then the only reason I wanted to go coach the Tampa Bay Buccaneers is they had Warren Sapp. I didn't have to block him anymore either. But as you know, it's easy to get help on a defensive end. You can nudge them with the tight end. You can chip them with the back. You can move the pocket east or west. But when you got a guy

Matt (06:22)
Yeah. ⁓

AD (06:26)
You

Yes.

Coach Gruden (06:43)
that has a relentless motor that can power rush you. I mean, he can run over your guard and walk him right back into your lap. The next snap, he beats him on the edge. The next snap, he beats him inside. You know, they should call Aaron Donald Burger King, because he had it his way with offensive guards.

AD (06:58)
Yeah.

Matt (06:59)
You

AD (07:02)
Talking about that Tampa defense though, I want to hear some stories, man. You had what? Warren Sapp, Brooks, Lynch. Like how was that legendary defense playing? Like I want to hear the good stories, the bad stories, whatever. I just want to hear some stories of that defense. How was it with them guys, man?

Coach Gruden (07:05)
Yeah.

Well, you

know a couple things Aaron, I think when we got the offense going, know, Brad Johnson had a really good year offensively and he figured the offense out. He got used to all my bullshit and we was able to score some points. And I think when we started getting two score leads and you know this better than anybody, when we started getting two score leads, we really unleashed the fury man because they got more at bats to rush the passer. You got the offense in predictable passing situations and they would kill you.

AD (07:39)
Yep.

Coach Gruden (07:43)
But the thing I loved about Sapp, and I think you guys are all this way, the great players, they can play through adversity, man. You're gonna get double teamed. You're gonna get wham blocked. We're gonna trap you. We're gonna slide the line to you. But you just keep coming. And the thing I learned from Warren, which is the coolest thing, and I don't know if you've ever seen this, Matt, is we would go out there with our fourth quarter pass rush. Our defense has to win us this game. We've worked 58 minutes to get the lead.

AD (07:57)
It'll make it money.

Coach Gruden (08:11)
Our fourth quarter pass rush comes out there. called it the green team and Sapp would grab me. He'd say, Hey, do I have a timeout? And I said, what the hell are you talking about? He goes, can I take a timeout if I get tired? said, that's the best idea I've ever heard. Because you see, think about this. You see an offensive coach, you see a coach down there with two timeouts. We already got the lead. You're not going to use your timeouts, but I get tired of seeing these great pass rushers.

Matt (08:27)
I had never heard of that.

Coach Gruden (08:40)
Tapping out in the two minute drill. I hate it. So a set would take a timeout and we would go out there with fans, air conditioners, we cool them off and the next nap he would blow by somebody. But that's one of the great things I learned. And then the final thing was it was a great challenge for our offense to go out there every day. We knew if we could block Sapp and Rice and Derek Brooks and Lynch and Ronde Barber,

AD (08:41)
Yeah, hate, man, I hate that shit too, coach. I hate it. I used to hate when my guys did that to me.

Ha

Yes.

Coach Gruden (09:08)
If we can move the ball against these guys, we can move it against anybody. And we challenged them. We didn't always win, but we went out there and we challenged them. We gained confidence and I think we gained their respect. And I think it made us a hell of a football team by the end of the year.

AD (09:24)
Yes, man, yes.

Matt (09:25)
Coach,

I want to talk about there's this, you know, the trend in the league right now. You've got, you've got some veteran quarterbacks who didn't have success early in their career. They've moved around. were high draft picks, but moved around a couple of different spots. And you see the success Sam Darnold's having. You see the success Baker Mayfield. He's got the injured shoulder right now, but the success that he's had in Tampa and even Daniel Jones in Indy this year, I was on the show on CBS and you know, we were talking about, you ever seen this before? And the guy I immediately thought of,

was Rich Gannon. I know it's a different deal with where he was drafted and kind of being a journeyman most of his career, but then finding that late career success with you in Oakland. What was that experience like, number one, with Rich and going through that time in Oakland? And do you think this trend right now in the league is something we're going to see more of given the difference in rookie contracts? Taking guys early is not as big of a risk as it used to be. Are we going to see some more of this movement?

⁓ in the future of the NFL.

Coach Gruden (10:22)
You know, I think that's a great question. I really believe this. I think there's really good coaches and I think there's some that aren't really good. They have not saying they're bad, but there's really good situations and there's bad situations. And Rich Gannon, I think he would tell you he was in a couple tough situations. Maybe the coach didn't believe in him. Maybe the system didn't fit him. Brad Johnson, we won the Super Bowl with would tell you the same thing. There was probably a couple stops along the way that

AD (10:33)
Yeah.

Coach Gruden (10:48)
You know, his car was in the garage. No one believed in him. No one gave him the shot. And I think that's what you're seeing. I don't think Carolina fit Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold. And I look around, I don't know that Brian Dabol offense fit Daniel Jones like it fit Josh Allen and Buffalo. I just think timing is really important. I think the system really matters. I brought up in an offensive system, Bill Walsh, Mike Holmgren, everything we did was to make the quarterback successful.

Matt (10:57)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Gruden (11:16)
We said if Brett Favre is successful, we'll be successful, we'll keep our jobs. But if he's not successful, we are screwed. So it was all hands on deck every single day. That's how I believe you gotta run these teams. You gotta make the quarterback successful. But know, some of these defensive guys, Darnold, some of these defensive, yeah, some of these defensive head coaches, they start blitzing these quarterbacks when they get out there for minicamp.

Matt (11:33)
I agree with you, by the way.

AD (11:35)
Yeah.

Matt (11:42)
No doubt, no doubt. Hey, tell me about Rich's work ethic because I remember getting into the league. my, my first agent in the NFL was Tom Condon and he represented rich as well. And so getting ready, for my first season, had, you know, two days basically where I sat down with rich and kind of went through his, his game planning, how he took care of his body, you know, how he grinded during the week. And I remember it being an eye opener for me as a young player being like, Holy shit, I gotta get my mind right. you know, given what he laid out for me, but

Talk about him as a worker, man, because I think he's one of the most underrated workers in the history of the NFL.

Coach Gruden (12:14)
Might have been the best, know, Matt, he would come into my office and say, what do you got for me? What do you got? Come on, coach me, give me some information. And I love that about him. He's an alpha. He's like a Philly cab driver, man, with his window down. He would not take from anybody. If the drills weren't run perfectly, if we weren't finishing our routes, if the receivers weren't running hard, if our help system wasn't what it was supposed to be, if the attention in the huddle or on the practice field wasn't good.

AD (12:22)
Yeah.

Coach Gruden (12:42)
He would rip your ass and he didn't care who you were. He didn't need any friends. I love that about him. He had a barbed wire, glass eater type mentality when it came. This shit was important to him, And it really permeated through the locker room, I think. He turned the Raiders around. I think his day to day, down to down competitiveness and attention to detail, phenomenal. And I think that's a trait that some of these young quarterbacks would be smart to acquire.

Matt (13:11)
There's no question. There's no question. I'm imagining. I think everybody's seen that clip of you with Chris Sims where you're going, all right, we're going to go scatter to West right tight F left 372. Why stick z spot?

Coach Gruden (13:23)
Look

at you, I it ain't that hard. No.

AD (13:25)
No

Matt (13:25)
No, it's not that hard. Bucking comes

in and I'm just imagining you probably got out of your mouth with rich scattered a West right tight and that was it. That was it. And then the rest of the play was get the fuck out of my ear. Let me call this play. Let me let me get rolling. But that's the difference, right? That's the difference with the guys who can actually do it.

Coach Gruden (13:41)
It is.

Well, you know, back in the day, we didn't have the quarterback to coach walkie talkie. I would just tell Rich, hey, you got to run 372 Y stick Z spot. He had to memorize the formation. That was part of his job. I would send in 21, you got 21 personnel, you got Y stick Z spot. Let's go. The next place, two jet Flanker drive, then it's 76X shallow cross, two jet Flanker short post. You got to remember all the formations. Now,

Matt (13:51)
Yeah. Knowing it from the personnel, right?

AD (13:53)
Mmm.

Coach Gruden (14:09)
We can't even sit there in a meeting for 20 minutes and concentrate. But you got to really, I think, really work on your skills listening, taking notes, and asking questions. mean, your meetings are the most important part of the week. I used to tell our players, you got to know what to do. If you don't know what to do, we're going to cut you. You won't be here long.

AD (14:29)
Yes.

Matt (14:32)
was going to say who was the guy in green Bay vaguely remember you telling this story, but you called flanker short post and he was the flanker and sterling sure he ran a dig and sterling sharp is like what?

Coach Gruden (14:38)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let

me tell you what, with flanker short post, you're the flanker. What do you think you're going to run? A short post? great answer. know? But yeah, some guys get nervous. Some guys have a hard time listening. It's easy to be distracted, man, because the other team is really good. You're feeling the pressure sometimes instead of applying the pressure, and you get tired.

And there's somebody else pushing you that wants your job. you know, being able to concentrate and execute on a down by down basis, it's almost like a surgeon, man. You gotta, you gotta get everything right or someone's gonna die.

AD (15:19)
Yeah.

Zach Klein (15:19)
We

had a fascinating conversation a few pods ago, on Matt educating us on the headset call versus some of these quarterbacks that just looked down on the Could you coach a quarterback that just said, play three, I need play three, play four, play six, or do you have to be in that communicative mode, or you couldn't just deal with that quarterback?

Coach Gruden (15:36)
Yeah, no,

no, I can't deal with that. And I talked to the Raven coaches a little bit. I saw Lamar use in the wristband and I don't think you can play quarterback at the highest level unless you see the formation as you call the play. I mean, I wanted our quarterbacks to see trips right when they said trips, right? I wanted them to feel the F left and the tight and the nasty calls. I think you got to see it as you say, just can't look at it. And you got to speak with a little bit of

AD (15:51)
Yeah.

Coach Gruden (16:04)
Loam large open moving mouth a little communication and eye contact a trips, right F left 372 cut them down get their hands. You got to be able to be emphatic and communicate I don't like the wristbands not one bit

AD (16:08)
Mmm.

Matt (16:19)
So coach, was telling these guys the year I went to Indy, they operated off a wristband. And that was just how the structure of their organization was set up, right? Off the call sheet, it was coming in. And I struggled so much because my whole career was the exact same as what you're saying. It comes in and we're going to go scatter west, right, tight, F left, 372, Y stick, Z spot. And as soon as I heard that, I pictured it the first time. But then I also would get into the huddle and say, OK, we've got 372 here. Make sure you get the cut on the end.

before I call this and then I would go, you know, scatter West right tight F left F left here, you know, 372 why stick? Don't cut this short. Get your depth Z spot on one ready boom and go. But there was coaching points that I could get out because the picture was in there that when I was reading it, I didn't know what to say. Like I didn't know what to coach because it was like wristband 28.

Coach Gruden (17:08)
Well, that's why you were a great player. mean, the great players are great communicators. There's no question about that. There's good players and there's great players. The great ones are great communicators. I coached the senior bowl college all-star game four times and we tried this wristband bullshit one time. And by the middle of the first quarter, I was done with that. Hey, I can't even play number seven, flip it, because you don't know if it's a right formation or a left formation. And I'll be honest with you, Matt.

AD (17:13)
Yep, 100%.

it.

Coach Gruden (17:38)
Our game plans were six pages long of passes. I was crazy with that. I always felt the contingency plan was more important than the plan itself. I wanted to have a litany of blitz beaters just in case they started heating me up. And then I wanted to have a lot of, I wanted cover two beaters just in case. I wanted plays out of 21, 13, 12, 11, no back plays. I had a lot of plays.

AD (17:53)
backups.

Coach Gruden (18:04)
for everybody. wanted Jerry Rice and Tim Brown to come into the meeting room and go, whoa, I got this, man. I love this. You know, I think once you start being an 11 personnel, 11, 11, 11, and you start running some of the same inside zones with built-in bubble screens, with a clapping hands, what is it, snap count, I want to throw up. I get sick. I hate football.

AD (18:10)
Yeah

Easy.

As a defensive player, make her job easier. You don't want to pit her different, give me one package, let me see. I already know what they coming out with if we're going to dominate that. You know, you make your job a lot harder.

Coach Gruden (18:38)
Well, let's hear from you. I've

always wanted to hear from you, Aaron. You're in a Hall of Fame. You're going to be a first ballot Hall of Famer. When you got the call over zone the Y under China, as soon as you got the call, what was your standard operating procedure? I mean, did you have to communicate? What was your deal?

AD (18:49)
Yeah.

Well, up front, I always communicated with my D lineman, right? We always communicate. If it was a pass game or whatever it was in a run game, we always talk different, you know, you got your formation, how you need to line up technique wise, four eyes, three eyes, your shades and all that. You communicate with them guys and obviously through the week, you prepare yourself, right? You study your film, you know your tendencies that your offensive lineman give you, know formations when they come out, what you're more likely, what they gonna run. So you prepare yourself for that. it's like, when...

So during the game, I always say the game was easy for me, right? Cause I prepared myself through the week. I watched film, I practiced hard. I worked on the techniques that I was going to get that I watched on film to be able to understand different blocking schemes I was going through so I can be able to dominate that. I knew when I was able to take my chances to play fast to split that double team or when I can backdoor to get in the backfield. So like when it was game time, everything was so slow, right? You go out there, you get a formation. Okay, then 12 personnel. I know they're going to run this.

Okay, I take my chance. Cause I know doing practice, I did it all week. It was working. So, you you feel a lot comfortable when you prepare yourself through the week, man. And you go out there in the game and the shit just, everything's just slow down, right? It's just slow down. And then you study offensive lineman tendencies, you see stands, different little formations that help you. Okay, I know what this guy's doing. I know he's blocking down. That's obvious. Okay. I know his set. know what pass rush I can do to beat this guy, to defeat this guy. I know this guy don't got no anchors. I'm gonna run through his face. I know power, right? On and off, right? So.

It's a lot of things you pick up through the week when it come game time. It's just like, you just play now. Ain't too much thinking. You prepare yourself. It's just, I study for the test. So I just went out there and I played and that felt like, I think for me, once I started to understand the study of the fam and find the tendencies and understand the formations and what I see coming out, they helped me play faster. felt like that's when I was a really good player. And that's when I started to make a lot more plays and become that player that everybody talked about, man. Cause I prepared myself.

Like you said, you got to prepare yourself through the week. That's a part of being a pro though. All the stuff you doing when nobody's watching, man. So I always say the game was, it slowed down for me. It was easy. I don't want to say easy because once you start getting up double and triple teams, God damn it made my job hard, right? I know what I could do to beat one guy, but now I got to figure out what I could do to beat two, three, four guys, right? So, you know, it's a part of the game though. You know, finding ways to just be successful, do my part to help my team to win, man.

Coach Gruden (20:50)
Yeah.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Yep.

I don't know by you Matt, but when the center's uncovered, you got to tell the center which way to go. I mean, it's either Lou or Ron, Mike 52 or Mike 56. But when you got Aaron Donald over there, I always tell the center, you go to 97. Because you know these son bitches. Yeah. You know, it's like when we had Warren Sapp, we would show a blitz on.

Matt (21:24)
Hey, just find him. He's 97 at Pitt, he was 99 with the Rams. You go that way.

AD (21:26)
So we do...

Hey, I said.

Coach Gruden (21:36)
the side away from Warren just to make you just to make the center go that way because you need the center in the back and Arundel would be getting ⁓ a one-on-one with the guard he'd be so you know we ain't stupid man we ain't that stupid

AD (21:41)
Yup. Yup.

One-on-one, what, that's, hey,

Matt (21:48)
Coach Wheat.

AD (21:51)
but we used to set things up for that and do that, but I felt like later in my career, we didn't have an overload to one side. I'd be on the back side to get the one-on-one. They still slide the protection to me. We got a free blitzer coming in there. like, that's supposed to be my side, but it's all good, man.

Matt (21:51)
Now, coach.

I was just going to say we would

have Trump cards during the week that we'd say, Hey, we'll live with being hot. We'll live with not protecting it over here on the left. And we're going to have this built in, whether it's a site adjust, whether it's a route that's already on, whatever it is, we're going to lead. We're going to, we're going to live with being hot over here and take our medicine, but we are not, we are not going to slide away from him. We are not going to leave him one. We don't have a chance.

AD (22:23)
I hated that shit, man.

I hated it.

Coach Gruden (22:25)
You know, that's

the thing I would love to sit down and talk with you about, Matt, is pass protection. Because when I watch college football now, and I deal with a lot of these young players, there's not a lot of colleges that are really servicing drop-back passers. Everything is an RPO. Most of the quarterbacks are runners. They're going to keep it on the zone read. There's very few quarterbacks that drop back and read through progressions in college.

Matt (22:32)
my gosh.

AD (22:43)
Yeah.

Yup.

Coach Gruden (22:52)
And I'm seeing it in the NFL a little bit, but I keep track of every sack and I'm convinced every sack has a reason. So I put it in my little terminal. Maybe it was a bad set by the left guard. Maybe it was a bad bank call. We didn't pick up a three man blitz, but there's some poor Pratt pass protection right now going on in football and it's really impacting the pass offense. And I think there's a real concern I have for some of the drop back.

AD (23:02)
Yeah.

Coach Gruden (23:21)
passing in football. don't see the routes I used to see. To be honest with you, it's not as exciting to me.

Matt (23:27)
Yeah, I mean, I think back to my prep during the week, I would say probably the majority of my time spent watching film, you know, because at some point coach, you know, I know what cover three looks like. I know what, you know, three fires on look like. I know what quarters looks like. I know this, I know the rules. I know how it's structured. The majority of my time was set off of what front are they in? What, you know, what protections do we have up?

in this formation, how they set up, what are their blitzes? How are we going to protect it? And like you said, in 72 protection in 82 protection, I'm assuming in that, in your scheme, that was like a full turn gap protection types. Okay. I'm fine there, but in jet, need this in man protection. need this in scat protection. need this. And that was at least for me, that was the most time consuming part of the week was, trying to make sure protections. weren't

You would have those different categories. one I was maniacal about was that it wasn't going to fall into the category of the quarterback put us in the wrong protection or we were not in the right scheme.

Coach Gruden (24:31)
Well,

I think you have to identify the front, whether it's a load front, double A's, jam front. You got to recognize these fronts because recognition leads to communication. And you got to have a toolbox of terms when you identify that front. That's a load squeeze. That's a five-oh. Bang it. You got to have these words and everybody's got to hit these things out of the park, man. But I just see a lack of communication.

AD (24:44)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Gruden (24:59)
I wrote these three letters down, had hats and t-shirts made, I'll send you one. It's R-C-E. And it was a big part of our existence. You gotta recognize the defense, man. You gotta recognize the front, coverage, the matchup, the situation. Recognize it, every single snap. And then, that leads us to communication. We're good, we're good. Come on in here, block that son of a bitch. You know, we're audible.

And that, if you can recognize and communicate, it can lead you to high levels of execution. But without the R and the C, you got no chance. And I don't want my quarterback running around, scrambling around, throwing it against the grain with some bullshit completion. I want to be in rhythm. I want it to be on time, accurate. I want it to be professional. And I could be crazy for feeling like that, but I don't see very much of that anymore.

AD (25:32)
Okay.

Yeah.

Matt (25:53)
I think we're starting to see a little bit of that in Chicago. think Ben Johnson is doing a very good job of what we saw last year from Caleb and really even what we saw in the first week or two from him during the season. He looks like a different player to me right now than he did 10 weeks ago in this season. And I think the similarities are very similar to you. You go to Oakland, I think you were maybe 34 or 35 when you went to Oakland, right?

Coach Gruden (25:58)
I am too.

Yep.

Matt (26:22)
And Ben Johnson is 39 years old, taking his first head coaching job as an offensive play caller in, in, Chicago. And I think I see them putting him more under center coach, going old school. They're getting under center. They're running the ball from under center. They're dropping him back from under center. They're using play action pass under center. I think we're seeing some of that reversion to, what we saw in the past. And I truly believe that's the reason Chicago is having success.

AD (26:32)
Yeah.

Coach Gruden (26:48)
Yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence that Josh McDaniels in New England are having success either. I watched the Patriots and they're doing the exact same thing. know, they're underneath the center. They're really accommodating the running back by doing that. Get that guy back there. Let him get ahead of steam toward the line of scrimmage. Let him have some time to read his cuts and let's get some real play action passes. You know, a lot of this pro football focus, a lot of this statistical data that we get, you know, they're,

Matt (26:52)
100%.

AD (26:53)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Matt (27:14)
you like them, huh? You like

them, coach.

Coach Gruden (27:18)
Well, they're calling RPOs

a play action pass. It's really not a play action pass, man. It's a running play. Yeah. So, but I do agree with you. I think Caleb Williams and Drake May are really coming on. I like what Detroit does. I got to go up and watch them in training camp with Jared Goff, but there's not a lot of teams that do it like you did it when you played all those years.

Matt (27:25)
It's a run. It's a run.

One thing I think, and this would be my last question, I'll let these other guys, you know, fire, fire some more off. But one thing I think for quarterbacks in general is I think this timing gets wired into your head better when you throw from under center. I'm not saying we shouldn't be in the gun to do certain things, but I'm saying you learn as a young player, the timing of pass concepts of reading flanker drive. Like you said, is it zone coverage? Can I extend my seven? Is it man to man? Do I got to chop these up? Put them up, pick them up, put them down, be on time for that crosser.

But it hardwires your brain to understand what the actual timing of the play is so that when you go to gun, you have that reference point. You know, I can choke this that, ⁓ you know, slow this down a little bit in my dropper. need to pick this up or, or, or whatever that may be. I'm a massive believer in teaching young quarterbacks to learn the passing game from under center. Doesn't mean you have to call it every time like that in the game, but you have to learn it from under center.

Coach Gruden (28:36)
I agree 100%. I think you got to get into the shotgun. That's a completely different story. Shame on Aaron Rodgers for what he did to the feet in the shotgun. He's the first guy to really put that right foot back in the gun. You know, when you're underneath the center as a right-handed quarterback, there's a little stagger. Your left foot is behind your right foot. And if you're taking a seven-step drop, you can figure it out yourself. But when you go to the gun, that would convert.

into a five step drop. A five step drop would convert to a three. But when you are Aaron Rodgers, you put that, you switch your feet. And now their footwork is a little bit different. And I see a lot of guys doing the exact same thing. And I ask them, why do you have your right foot? Why are you doing that with your, well, Aaron Rodgers does it. And I said, you fool, Aaron Rodgers just does it to be different. You know what I mean?

AD (29:24)
Good luck.

Matt (29:26)
the only valid argument that you can make, I think, with the right foot back is for quick game. Is for quick game from the gun. Now, that's the only one I sit there and say, okay, because you can hit that just little slide step and you have the ability to get the football out. But it does screw up the timing on, because it becomes a four step drop instead of a three step drop from the gun.

Coach Gruden (29:48)
Yeah!

Matt (29:48)
It becomes a, you know, a six step drop instead of a five step drop and inherently you're late.

Coach Gruden (29:53)
I saw Jamis Winston had his feet the same when he won the Heisman Trophy. He throws for 5,000 yards twice in Tampa. He goes to another team and he switches his feet because the coach says to. Kirk Cousins did the same thing. He throws for 8 million yards. They get a new offensive coordinator in Minnesota. He says, switch your feet. I said, switch them back, man. Switch them back.

AD (30:04)
Mmm.

Matt (30:14)
Thank you.

Coach Gruden (30:16)
You know, I'm nuts. You know, last thing I'll say, Matt, with the quarterbacks every day, I had to grade three things on every play. We had to grade the feet. We had to grade the decision. And if it was a pass, we graded the throw. And we wanted feedback from our quarterback on every play. What'd you think of that, Matt? What'd you think of that? You like the depth of that? How'd that feel? Should we go five here instead of quick seven? What do you think, Matt? Should we take a stretch step there? But, you know, I don't know, to my point,

AD (30:17)
It was working, right?

Coach Gruden (30:43)
with the footwork and the gun, some people do, some people don't. Some teams have the starting quarterback's feet like this, the backup quarterback's feet are like this, and I say, who's coaching this team?

AD (30:55)
Yeah.

Matt (30:55)
No, it's it. Yeah. It's interesting times. Interesting times.

Zach Klein (30:57)
Hey coach.

AD (30:59)
Yes,

Zach Klein (30:59)
We

AD (30:59)
times.

Zach Klein (31:00)
got a

AD (31:00)
So,

Coach Gruden (31:00)
You know what

Aaron, Sean McVeigh was on my staff. We had him on my staff back in the day. He was a young coach coming in. What do you think of him? How would you give a quick summary of McVeigh?

AD (31:04)
Yeah.

Man, I love Coach, man. Obviously, as a person, he's great.

Coach Gruden (31:14)
But technically, what

was it technically that made him so good?

AD (31:17)
I think when he came, so obviously he came and changed everything around for the Rams organization. I think what he brought was accountability, right? And obviously from my office of mind coach, you know, helping these guys, you know, from the X's and O's standpoint, he know everything, he remember everything, but even from a defensive side, I remember I'm in a defensive meeting. This is, you know, he's a new coach and we in there with Wade, we going through it.

And Sean used to always be in the back of the meetings. I'm like, why is the, like he's an offensive man, the coach. I know he's the head coach, but he was a play caller. He'd be in the back of the meetings and he'd stop the meeting and be like, hey coach. And he start etching coach Wade about the defense and plays. And he know the terminology and things like that. So I think he just brought a lot of accountability, man. A lot of confidence to the team, man. He kind of button us up, right? It went from being at practice with, you know, other coaches we had, you know, the offensive practicing, defenses land on the bags, right?

Sean Kane, everybody's in tune, everybody's watching practice, everybody's seeing what they need to do. Ain't no bullshit no more at practice. Everybody locked in, A part of being a pro is doing the little things right. And I think once we started doing that, man, he brought a whole different type of juice to the team, man, a different type of confidence. And obviously when you start playing and you start seeing your team have success, right? It went from not being a playoff team to experiencing going to a playoff game. Fuck you, Matt, for beating us in my first playoff game, by the way.

But you know, experiencing that man,

Matt (32:36)
No problem.

AD (32:38)
I think give you a kind of confidence, man. you know, once he did that man, obviously the rest is history. What we was able to do with that guy, man, and the way they playing right now, right? The young players, they was able to, know, know, button up and how that offense is playing, how fucking Matthew Stafford is playing lights out, how that young defense is playing. They look like a veteran defense. They playing with confidence

Coach Gruden (32:58)
Man, that's the lowest paid defense in the

AD (33:01)
playing with confidence and they're having fun. When you got a bunch of guys like that that's playing for each other that's out there having fun, you can tell that it's a close group like this. We all been a part, it's a brotherhood. was the team that you got, them was the special years you have. I've been a part of them type of teams. I seen it. I would have loved to be able to play with a defense like that, play with that young defense man, when I was still out there man. But I think they got a special group man and they having fun and they playing with a lot of confidence right now. A lot of confidence.

Coach Gruden (33:09)
Brotherhood.

Well, I'm speaking for all the

Rams fans. I'll tell you what, you need to get your ass back out there because they could, they would love to have you for about 15, 20 snaps a game,

AD (33:29)
No! ⁓

Matt (33:29)
Hahaha!

AD (33:34)
Hey coach, I wish I wanted to play football. I wish I could be with that team. I just ain't got it no more, man. My days is up, ⁓ And I always said I wanted to do it like Barry Sanders, man. But I wish I did play with that defense and how that team playing right now. Football ain't my thing no more. I will always love football. I just don't love playing football no more, coach. That's it, Yeah, man, but.

Coach Gruden (33:41)
Yeah, you're like Barry Sanders, man. You and Barry Sanders, you just walked away at the top of your game, man. Good for you.

T$ (33:58)
He's a podcaster now, he's a podcaster, that's all he is.

Zach Klein (34:00)
Yeah. Hey coach, maybe

when you get back in the game, maybe AD is your first call. I'm just saying, know, tandem right there.

AD (34:07)
Hahaha!

Coach Gruden (34:07)
Yeah, you know what,

I'm gonna go to the Tampa Bay game on Sunday. They play Arizona. We're gonna put Simeon Rice in the ring of honor. So that'll be really cool. I still stay connected to Tampa Bay and the Raiders. And it really was a lot of fun being with you guys. And no disrespect to you, Donald, but you're a defensive guy. But Matt, I've made training reels of you, some of the routes that you guys have run. I have two servers here. I make my own cutups.

AD (34:15)
wow.

Coach Gruden (34:34)
⁓ I've used some of your stuff as training reels over the years, how to stand in the freaking pocket and throw the ball and take a lick. You were one hell of a ball handler. Some of the shit you did was great,

AD (34:44)
Mm-hmm.

Matt (34:46)
Thank you, man. Old school. Old school approach to it. Old school approach to it.

Coach Gruden (34:48)
Yeah. Yeah. Great.

AD (34:51)
Yes.

Coach Gruden (34:51)
Well, let's stay in touch. Maybe let's do something again. Go ahead. What'd you say?

Zach Klein (34:51)
the I don't know. ⁓ I was about to say

I don't I don't know your deal with Barstool, Tom, but you're the agent of the group. Maybe you can talk to Gruden. He can be a recurring guest here on the Inner Circle podcast. Coach, we love you dropping the knowledge and

Coach Gruden (35:03)
Yeah, I would love

it, man. All you do is me what you want to talk about. I can't even get on the board here. I got chalkboards, grease boards. I got it all in here.

AD (35:09)
Hahaha

T$ (35:11)
his unbelievable energy. That's awesome.

Matt (35:11)
We'll come visit you. We'll come visit you.

Coach Gruden (35:13)
Yeah,

if you guys ever get down this way, I'd love

AD (35:14)
Appreciate your time, Coach.

Coach Gruden (35:16)
Thank you, guys.

AD (35:15)
I appreciate it, man.

Zach Klein (35:16)
Yeah,

we'll make a road trip coach. about that? We'll get the Inner Circle crew, hang out with Coach Gruden, get you and Matt on the board,

Coach Gruden (35:21)
Amen.

Zach Klein (35:23)
some shit.

Coach Gruden (35:22)
Come down for the Falcons-Bucks

game in a couple weeks.

Matt (35:26)
I gotta work on Sundays for CBS, ⁓ you know, you know, we need to get him back on Monday Night Games. can count.

Coach Gruden (35:28)
that's right. That's right, man.

T$ (35:29)
Gets in the way,

gets in the way.

Zach Klein (35:30)
an offseason

plan.

Coach Gruden (35:33)
How's my guy Bill Cowher doing?

AD (35:33)
You

Matt (35:35)
He's a legend, man. He's a legend. Every day, every...

Coach Gruden (35:38)
We went to

Iraq, me and Bill Cower, Coughlin and Jeff Fisher in Harbaugh. And Cower wanted a beer. There's no beer in Iraq. It's a dry place. So me and Jeff Fisher and Cower are walking to the airport. We're flying home from Kuwait. And all Cower is saying, I'm gonna have two frosty mugs. When I sit down, I'm gonna drink two at a time. And Jeff Fisher.

T$ (35:48)
Ha

Matt (35:55)
You

AD (35:59)
You

Coach Gruden (36:02)
he turns around and says, why don't you shut up, it's a dry airline, you dumbass and...cowr, he has a, like a breakdown so we get our bags, we run on the airplane and there's the stewardess and Cowher says, do you have beer on this plane? and the stewardess says, no, it's a dry airline i thought Cowher was gonna have a stroke

Matt (36:07)
You

You

AD (36:22)
⁓ man, that's awesome.

Matt (36:23)
That's so good. He's the best, man.

Zach Klein (36:23)
That's fantastic.

Matt (36:25)
He's the best. I will, I will. Appreciate you, John.

Coach Gruden (36:26)
He is giving my best love you guys. You

Zach Klein (36:29)
Hey coach, we appreciate you man.

AD (36:29)
I appreciate you coach.

Coach Gruden (36:30)
guys are great for football man. You guys are great for the game. Keep spreading the love.

AD (36:30)
See you.

Zach Klein (36:30)
John Gruden.

Matt (36:34)
Thank you, John.

Zach Klein (36:34)
You too. You're always

T$ (36:34)
Appreciate you,

AD (36:34)
I appreciate

T$ (36:35)
Coach.

Zach Klein (36:35)
welcome

AD (36:35)
you, Coach.

Zach Klein (36:35)
back. Much love, coach. Thank you very much. We'll see you soon.

Coach Gruden (36:36)
Alright, thank you guys.

See you, appreciate

Zach Klein (36:40)
what a fun visit guys. AD, you geek out on that. Just talking ball with an offensive mind and coach.

AD (36:45)
Yeah, I do, man. Just to hear these great, obviously, Matt, great quarterback, MVP quarterback, Hall of Fame quarterback, then Coach Groot and great minds. Just to hear these offensive guys talk, because I've been on the other side of the ball, right? I was in a different space and we do things that different, but just to hear they thought process and how they do things and the terminology. It's a lot of fucking blah, blah, blah blues, but y'all pretty special, man. It's pretty cool to understand.

Matt (37:05)
You

AD (37:09)
A lot more respect for like what y'all had to do as quarterbacks and what you gotta pertain, how you gotta do everything and communicate. know communication is a key, but someone don't play Collins to be able to know all that. For me, man, it's like mind blowing. I be into it, man, just to hear it. I love the stories y'all guys be telling, hearing and listening to, man. I think it's pretty cool, bro.

T$ (37:32)
energy, his passion is unbelievable. I feel like if I was a player, I would be so locked in and making sure that my T's were crossed and I's were dotted because you just know how much he's on it and how important it all is. I feel like that should be like almost contagious amongst the whole team.

AD (37:34)
I love it.

Matt (37:47)
Yeah, and I think the thing is, as players or coaches, when you're part of a locker room, you're going to be around a lot of different personality types and a lot of different, you know, just a lot of different stuff. I've always felt like if you loved ball though, no matter what your personality type was, no matter, you know, if we had similar interests away from football or not, if you loved ball, we were going to get along fine.

AD (37:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep.

Matt (38:12)
And that's what Gruden is exactly

that, right? Like he just loves football. He loves the hard work that goes into it. He loves watching it. He loves other people's football. loves his own, like he just loves all parts of it. And when you get a chance, I think as all of us with different lenses on the game of football, when you get a chance to sit with somebody like that, man, that's what it's all about.

AD (38:22)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Zach Klein (38:34)
He's

62. He has two servers in his house for nothing but football plays. He's going through foot drops. And I think that was fascinating breakdown how, you know, two quarterbacks are coached totally differently, Matt, on where your foot, it just drives him crazy. Like he's just so old school. He's so about the details. He's so about, you know, the little things that add up and it drives him crazy. Like he's fricking, he can't fathom some of the idiotic moves some of these coaches are doing this day and

Matt (38:56)
Yeah.

Yeah, and we could have gone back and forth on that because I switched my foot to what he hated and I won MVP so I was like, I don't know man, I I don't know I switched it that year. We did it pretty good But but we did it with a purpose we did it with the purpose knowing going into that season We were gonna use a lot of quick game out of gun and we felt like I could get the ball out of my hand a little bit faster

Zach Klein (39:05)
Go ahead.

Why'd switch?

Matt (39:26)
like a half a click quicker if I had that right foot back and just did a slide step. Now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because there was an adjustment with all of the other stuff that I had to do from the gun. There was an adjustment, but I go back to sort of what I said ⁓ and John agreed with was, but I had learned the game from under center. So I had learned the timing and I had this, this, this kind of

Metronome in my head of what the timing of certain plays look like and I think that allowed for me to be able to switch my feet During that season during that 2016 season But still have that timing in my head so I could I could sort out that the steps were off But I knew the timing that I had to do those steps But you know some people have success with switching those feet. I think I did and some don't

AD (40:10)
It don't work for everybody, all right? Yeah, man, but that's pretty cool, man.

Matt (40:12)
Correct, correct, yeah.

Zach Klein (40:15)
such stories. The Cowher story at the end was fantastic. He just oozes football, man. I hope he gets back in the game. I think the game would be better with John Gruden back in it.

Matt (40:23)
Well, I think it's gonna be interesting to see. We got a lot of college jobs open and he's been very candid about, you know, wanting to get back into it, whether that's in the NFL, whether that's in college football. you know, I don't know, something tells me he's gonna get a chance. Something tells me he's gonna get an opportunity somewhere, somehow. And, ⁓ you know, we'll be recording some Inner Circle podcast, not at his FFCA spot. We'll probably be recording it at some football facility, wherever that may be.

Zach Klein (40:51)
the way you guys play. Would you have worked your your personalities, Matt, you and coach, you know, knowing that he's got that kind of get in your face and kind of call you out on certain things, but kind of push your buttons with that have worked.

Matt (41:02)
Oh yeah, I would have came right back at him too. Like there was 100%. I think in a lot of ways, in a lot of ways, all you're really want as a quarterback is somebody who's gonna put you in, you know, position to be successful out on the field. However that comes across, you know, you've got to be comfortable with it. But if he's putting you in positions to be successful and to score points and to win ball games, that's all you can ask for.

AD (41:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Zach Klein (41:05)
Yeah, you would have.

And he would have loved it.

Matt (41:30)
But I think, know, my personality type, I'm a big believer in healthy friction. Like there needs to be healthy friction to make that fire spark. And I believe that there needs to be back and forth. And I feel like I certainly would have got along well with John.

AD (41:44)
Yeah, that's what you want as a coach though. You want a coach to get on you when you're doing shit the wrong way, push you a little bit. I was a guy that always told coaches, like, please, anything I do wrong, call me out, hold me accountable. I don't want to just be like, that's Aaron, let him go. Don't just go over the good plays, go over my bad plays, call me out, hold me accountable, make me get better. Cause that's the only way you can continue to get better, right? You don't want people to just keep loving you up. And when you do something wrong, they skip over that play right now. Go back to that, call me out in front of everybody. Let me know what the fuck I did wrong.

So everybody know, everybody held accountable. Everybody's here. We trying to be on the same level to get to what we trying to get to. So me personally, I would love a coach like that to like, to push me to get on me. Yell at me a little bit. That's all right, shit. I'll tell you why I did it coach. I did it because I seen this, I fucked up. I'll be better next time. And I just got out there and play ball. That's what you want from a coach, right? So.

Matt (42:33)
I think the trickle

down effect in the locker room when you have a superstar player like Aaron that wants to be coached hard and needs to be coached hard to be at his individual best, the trickle down is so huge, right? Because other guys are seeing, all right, AD is getting coached like that and he's willing to take it and he's willing to go through with it. I've got to be able to, like, I think that's just so huge for a team when your best players like AD want to be coached that way.

AD (42:47)
Yep.

Yeah.

And that's something, Shama, they always said. Like everybody's hold to a certain standard. When your best players is hold accountable, held accountable, they doing things the right way, everybody else gonna follow suit, right? If your guys is half ass and they doing what they wanna be, your coach yelling at you, you pounding, they argue in front, that's downward hill. Like when you got a bunch of people that's like all on the same page, being held accountable, know, the young guys follow suit, man. And that's how you get a good team,

T$ (42:58)
No question.

Zach Klein (43:00)
stuff.

T$ (43:24)
to players every day and believe me, they all notice, right? If one guy's treated one way versus another guy treated another way, because in their eyes, I don't care if it's a seventh rounder, I don't care if it's a special teams guy, if it's a backup, they all are elite in their own ways and they all look at it and believe me, they're making mental notes and I think that's eventually how you lose a locker room.

AD (43:31)
Mm-hmm.

Zach Klein (43:45)
Todd, if your guys are coming to you like that, ⁓ where the head coach is not holding the best players accountable, would you say something to the front office and kind of go back to our head? This is kind of feedback I'm getting, you know, talk to me here. you know, to make things better. Okay.

T$ (43:56)
It's situational. It's

situational. It depends on what it is and how extreme it is. I mean, I'm not getting in the way of a team running its organization, but would I have a conversation if something's not making sense or I can have a confidential conversation with the GM that, you know, I have a good relationship with and want to share something? Yeah, I'll never do it though, in a way that ever comes back on the player. Because at the end of the day, I can say what I want, but that player's got to go to work every single day and face the music. So I will never put the player in a bad position, but there are plenty of ways

AD (44:16)
Yeah.

T$ (44:25)
to express a feeling or something that's going on without it reflecting negatively on your client, for sure.

Zach Klein (44:31)
in place, you see that front office at the combine or down the road and you can kind of, you know, kind of bring it up casually as opposed to something that might happen in the moment.

T$ (44:38)
Could be that, could be in the moment too. Just again, you just gotta make sure you protect the player and stuff.

Matt (44:42)
I think the best head coaches are consistent. If you're consistently, you know, hard and tough and that, but players know what they're getting every day when they walk into the building. Like that's what you, that's all you can ask for. And everyone, everybody has, there's a ton of head coaches that are highly successful, that have wildly different personalities than, than John Gruden. You can even look in Tampa, right? The success that John had following Tony Dungy, who was very different, but Tony had a ton of success there too.

AD (44:48)
Mm.

Matt (45:10)
Both those guys in their own ways, wildly consistent human beings and head coaches. And that's ultimately all you're asking for as a player is that consistency day to day and being coached the same way over and over and over.

AD (45:15)
Mm.

Zach Klein (45:25)
Todd and Mack, can you guys do me a solid, can we just check in on AD this weekend? Because I'm a little nervous. He's not going to know what's going to happen because he's not getting any jersey retired or no love from what he's been like. What am I doing this weekend? Golly. Take out the trash, go do the laundry. He's like, man.

Matt (45:33)
An ego hit this weekend. Just a real ego hit this weekend.

AD (45:39)
Hey, been good

to be, man. It been a great two weeks, man. A lot of emotions. ain't been a full two years of retirement, but to be able to reap the benefits of what I did when I played and going to these stadiums, man, like I did with the Rams, ate them and so far, man. I felt so much love, bro. The halftime show with Zibbit was crazy.

did a great job. The USC Martian band did a great job. They had my highlights planned with all my stats and they showed the tribute video, man. That made my eyes water a little bit, man. Cause you you think about all the hard work you put into to accomplish things I was able to accomplish, man. Cause I put so much work into it. And then, you you see the highlights and I remember all the emotions from them big plays you make and all that. So it's like you relive in it, man. And it's like, it's overwhelming. It's emotional, man. So shout out to the rounds for another real.

Real special week for me, man. I appreciate it. Obviously had pit two weeks ago and then, know, Rams last week. So was a lot of love in the building. I felt it from the crowd. the fans show so much love. They got they, ⁓

T$ (46:41)
The bobblehead, I want to see the bobble. yeah, I want to see.

AD (46:44)
The AD

Bobblehead, man. So.

Matt (46:45)
Yeah! Love it!

T$ (46:46)
How

did the life-size bobblehead look in person? Is it awesome?

AD (46:49)
It looked

good. It was fire. Had my own fundraiser event with my foundation at SoFi Friday night. That was great. So, it was a good productive week, man.

T$ (46:59)
I'm sorry, AD, I think it was really cool. You you're a defensive guy and a lot of times you see like, you know, offensive guys have their relationships with the offensive guys and defensive guys and not so much, you know, always across the board, but just seeing you go there and on the sideline and seeing Puka come up to you and literally embrace you for like a 30 second hug from an offensive guy. And it just really was special. I thought it was really cool. It says a lot about you.

AD (47:10)
Mm-hmm.

yeah, yeah he did. You know what?

Yeah.

Yeah. So the tribute video they showed on halftime, Sean showed it to the team, 11 o'clock, meeting before the game, Sunday night. So they said they cut the lights on, we guys was back there crying, all juiced up, ready, you know, ready run through a wall. And Pooka see me on the salad, he just hugged me. He like, and I tried to, I'm like, I love you too. And he just held on. said, I just need to feel this love, bro. He said, I watched that video, man.

Matt (47:32)
You

AD (47:42)
I stop shaking my leg. was ready to run through a wall. I'm like, go do your thing. So I knew them guys were ready to play, man. They put on a show for me, man. It was definitely a special day, man. Real special day. It was special, man. It's hard to put it in words. I can't believe a Pittsburgh kid that they said was only 6'1", not the biggest guy, couldn't do this and couldn't do that to be able to, you know, be 10 years in the league and accomplish things I was able to accomplish in a short matter of time.

Matt (47:53)
Hey.

AD (48:08)
you know, be, you know, celebrated the way that, the way I did and the way they did for me this week, man. It's pretty cool.

Matt (48:15)
Well, it's, yeah, I was gonna say it. Hey, AD, you have any like, you know, come back down to earth moments after this? So I remember, this is kind of a funny story, but I remember, so I went into the Falcons ring of honor last year and I come back home after it was a night game. I come back home, we had a bunch of family and some were staying at the hotel, some at the house and we get back.

T$ (48:15)
Toledo made a mistake. Sorry, keep going.

Zach Klein (48:18)
So you go from

Matt (48:36)
And it's this great night, it's special, you're standing in front of the stadium, you're doing all of this stuff, you're giving a speech, and then you get back home. My wife's like, okay, can you take out the trash and make sure the playroom's cleaned up before we go to bed? And I'm like, all right, we're back, we're back.

AD (48:42)
Yeah.

The funny thing, first thing I had to do when I got home, I tried to throw something away in the garbage. I'm like, damn, had to take the garbage out, tie it up. I'm like, this supposed to be my day. What we doing?

Matt (48:55)
Damn, I gotta take the trash out.

T$ (48:59)
That's funny though, I remember when I finished Dak's contract and I was in the house and then I was so excited. come out and it's on the TV. I was in my office at home because I think it was a Sunday and I come out and I'm like trying to tell my girls, I'm like, hey, it's gonna be on TV. like, daddy, watch it. They could care less, all they wanted to do, let me show you this dance that we put together. Okay, like, yep, I'll just watch the dance. That's what we're gonna do. real life. It's awesome though.

AD (49:07)
Yep.

Matt (49:19)
That's it. That's it.

It's the best.

AD (49:23)
man.

Matt (49:25)
You get right back into

AD (49:25)
Yes.

Now everybody enjoy their Thanksgiving, Eat some good food. Enjoy the family. I know Matt you're gonna be working, so enjoy your family today, tomorrow. You travel tomorrow?

Matt (49:35)
I'm leaving tomorrow. They're coming up to New York. We're going to be in New York for like four days together. So yeah, it's all good. They're going to come over to the studio while we're doing it. So it's cool.

AD (49:37)
okay, okay. Okay, shit. You got the family with you. good, so everybody enjoy y'all families

this week, man. Enjoy it, man. So happy Thanksgiving to y'all boys,

T$ (49:47)
You too guys appreciate you guys really am thankful for all you guys and enjoy the show so enjoy your holiday.

Matt (49:52)
You got it. Happy Thanksgiving.

AD (49:52)
Yes.

Zach Klein (49:53)
Much love,

man. Happy

AD (49:54)
Happy Thanksgiving,

Zach Klein (49:55)
It's been a fun run. We're just getting started here on the Inner Circle podcast. Much love. Many thanks to all of our listeners and to the three of you. A special crew. Thanks to John Gruden for joining us here on this Thanksgiving edition of the Inner Circle podcast. Much love. Happy Thanksgiving. And we'll see you next week.