Mahomes and Micah Injuries: Real Talk on Depth, Leadership and Survival

This week on The Inner Circle Podcast, the crew hits on the real stuff that defines an NFL season: timing, health, and the thin line between “next man up” and “everything just changed.”

We open with the brutal injury news rocking the league — headlined by Patrick Mahomes’ torn ACL and Micah Parsons going down at the worst possible time. Aaron Donald and Matt Ryan break down what those losses do beyond the stat sheet: the immediate hit to a locker room’s confidence, the ripple effect on coaches trying to adjust a game plan overnight, and the pressure it puts on everyone else to “do a little bit more.” Todd France adds the roster-building reality from a GM/agent lens — how depth gets tested, how teams actually evaluate medical timelines now, and why a clean ACL today is viewed differently than it was a decade ago.

Then the conversation turns into a fascinating “could he really?” debate: Philip Rivers coming off the couch to play — 1,800 days after his last start — and what that says about relationships, terminology, and having the right plan. That sparks Todd’s question for Matt: could he do it for one game? Matt gives an honest, hilarious, and surprisingly human answer about the difference between being in shape and being game-ready.

We also dig into the league-wide rash of major injuries — ACLs, Achilles, calf issues — and whether it’s just football being football or something bigger. From cleats to surfaces to data tracking, the guys pull back the curtain on what teams are actually doing to keep players healthy (and why the sport still demands a physical price).

Plus: a funny, relatable detour into memorabilia and family life, where game balls and helmets somehow end up as kids’ toys — and AD tells the story of the “touchdown” that got taken away… even though the ball still lives in his house.

Tap in, hit like and subscribe, and join the Inner Circle fam. Thanks as always for the live and taking the time to listen

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Transcript

Zach Klein (00:00)
Hey, how we doing everybody? Zach Klein here on the Inner Circle podcast. Thanks for hanging out with us this week. Please hit the like and subscribe button. Coming up on this week's show, for one game, could Matt Ryan play in the NFL? I mean, we saw Philip Rivers a week ago. He's signed with the Colts. But what about one game? Could Matt do it? Does he want to do it for a single game? And speaking of one game, what if Aaron Donald were to get 20 snaps?

taking over for Micah Parsons in Green Bay, for example. How many sacks would AD have in 20 snaps? He discusses that. Plus we talk about our favorite memorabilia and so much more, but we begin with the brutal injury news across the league. Obviously Micah Parsons in Green Bay. And then there's Patrick Mahomes out for the season with that torn ACL with the Kansas City Chiefs.

AD (00:49)
You always say next man up, but once you lose your key pieces, right? The game changes of the game, you're my homes, right? You got to think about that guy. He played, Every year he played in the NFL, he was in the AFC Championship. So obviously, they see him was going downhill and even throw that on top with an injury like that, man. It's devastating. You never want to see none of them guys get hurt, you know?

We know when you play this game, you sign up for something. So just a speedy recovery for them guys, man. Hopefully, if anything, more of their mentals is in the right place, right? And doing what they need to do just from that standpoint. But you never want to see that, man. It is tough.

Matt Ryan (01:30)
I think about, you know, the different situations too, where Patrick and tearing your ACL, you know, at the end of the game, at the end of the part of the season where you're still in it and you still have a chance and then they get officially eliminated from, you know, playoff contention and that it sucks. I mean, you know, because you're at that space where you're already thinking about next season and what we're going to be and then you have to go through this reset. ⁓

know, rehab process and, you know, what timing you're going to be back. Is that going to be September? Is it going to be in October? You know, just that that whole thing. But then on the opposite side, it's like Green Bay's and smack in the in the middle of trying to chase, you know, a championship and and you know, you go out and you make that trade for Micah Parsons and he has such a great year and then you know, and then goes out with that injury. And I think that team is deep enough. I really do.

AD (02:07)
Yes, I know.

Matt Ryan (02:21)
to still make a run. But it just, how it affects the mindset of the entire team, I think, needs to be taken into consideration too. Because you remember at the beginning of the year how much that lifted up that locker room, and how much it lifted up that defense, and the excitement, and the energy, and what he had brought to that defense the entire year. You wonder, and you hope, and Matt LaFleur and that coaching staff are going to have their work cut out for him.

to not have the same effect in the opposite way here with that injury. so I feel for those guys personally, I feel for the Packers team, because I think they were primed to make a run in the playoffs. this is the shitty part of the business. It's a reality that these things happen and wish those guys the best in their recovery.

AD (03:03)
Yes it is.

T$ (03:10)
That's why the team building is so critical, right? I mean, they talk about, you know, not just the stars, but you got to the depth and having those key pieces and the puzzle that all these teams are having to put together from a GM perspective and a coaching perspective, personnel managing the salary cap, not just having the great players, but guys who can step in. And it's a great, it's very cliche, the next man up, but you got to have a guy who can actually be that next man up the whole season can't cave because one guy goes down. So it's very interesting puzzle that these teams all work with.

If you think about it, a team that actually gets to the Super Bowl and goes deep, how many things have to go right? It's the sun, the moon, the stars, everything has to line up.

Matt Ryan (03:49)
it's all about being healthy. It's having your guys available during those, you know, the most important time of the year, which is, you know, the last three weeks of the regular season and then obviously the playoffs, you know, but it's amazing. You have these visions of this team the entire season. You have the opinions that you have of that team. And this is the best team in football in week eight. This is the best team in football in week 12. Well, none of that matters. It's...

AD (03:51)
Yes, it is.

Matt Ryan (04:16)
who's the best team, you know, got to get yourself in and then who's the best team, who's the healthiest

AD, you talk about the Rams and, and Devontae Adams and the hamstring. And that's a little bit different in terms of, you know, there's a chance he comes back, but those things are temperamental that, that, that injury, especially for a receiver or a DB. mean, those, and Todd, you can speak to that too. think there's, there's levels to which injuries impact which positions more, but I think he was so productive for them, especially in the red zone. This is, this is where it matters. You need your guys healthy.

AD (04:43)
Rizzo, yes. That's going to change a lot for him.

Yes. Definitely going into a big Thursday night game this week too, man. So it sucks, bud. But again, depth is everything. Next man up mentality obviously is going to be a change. It's different. You know, it's always say next man up. I know that's cliche. Everybody say that. But having your guys out there, it's a comfortability. I know when I was playing, right, like it was a game that Ramsey wasn't playing, right? It was like, okay, next man up.

Just knowing that guy's not there, it's like, all I put a little bit more stress on me. Maybe I gotta do a little bit more. But when you got your guys out there, it's a comfort, like, all right, we got playmakers there that's gonna do things. It's just the comfortability of knowing your guys and what they can bring and what they can do. Not saying that the next man can't do that. But when you got your top tier guys, man, it's just, you you just know. Like, if my quarterback was Matt Ryan, like, I don't, not saying that the backup quarterback can't, but he's not Matt Ryan, right? It's a comfortability in knowing when that guy's on the field, we always gonna have a chance, right?

When you lose pieces like that, ⁓ it's tough. It's going to affect the team some way somehow, but you still got to play the game, right? You still got to battle. You got to still find ways to be productive, still find ways to win games, man. And that's just the nature of the NFL, man. It can be one hell of a business, but it can be one, you know, a tough one too, so.

T$ (05:58)
What are you saying, Aaron, like if a key defensive guy goes down on your team and you're another key defensive player, what are you saying to your team? How are you handling that in the locker room at this point in the season when it happens? And then what happens if the guy stepping in for that guy, you what are you doing with them, whether he's a vet or whether he's a young guy, how are you instilling confidence in him and just kind of support in that whole process?

AD (06:21)
Me, me personally, I'm telling the guys, we just gotta, we gotta ball We gotta do a little bit more, right? And whoever's taking that position, that place of a guy that's down, you want him to have the most confidence in the world that he's gonna dominate. So you keep putting that into his ear. You let them know you ride with them. If that's at practice, anything you do, you like, you always try to bring the energy at practice. When guys make plays, like if we was in a game, like you make a big play at practice, an interception, I'm coming, I'm running down, I'm jumping, know, smacking your head, getting excited about it. Cause you want guys to...

understand what you're doing at practice, gonna translate what you do on the field. So you want them to have that confidence right away, right? So, you know, it's gonna be different for them, right? Being a backup guy, now you about to be prime time games and meaningful games. These are all meaningful games now. So you want these guys to have that confidence. You wanna keep letting them know that you ride with them, you with them and then understand that you losing key pieces to your team that, you know.

We gonna hold you down while you gone. We gonna do what we need to do to continue this success that we having. So you just try to be positive, man. That's all you can do, right? And just do your part.

Matt Ryan (07:24)
I think AD makes such a good point that it's almost like you gotta make these guys believe that they can do it before they're really there. I think everybody thinks that every NFL player is extremely confident and just has this incredible self-belief and is completely comfortable getting thrown into different roles. And it doesn't work like that. And I think getting to know your teammates, Todd, you talked about it, that team building.

AD (07:30)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Ryan (07:50)
You know, part of it is, is understanding, you know, what their personality types are. How am I going to get this guy to believe that he can actually do this, that, that he can play free and, and play confident. and that goes to, know, what you're doing in practice, how you're dealing with them in practice. And then I think it comes down to, to real conversations that the coaching staff has to have about, Hey, what adjustments do we need to make? Because, you know, if you lose a guy like AD or you lose Micah Parsons, you're not able to replace them.

AD (08:05)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

It's gonna be a just machine.

Matt Ryan (08:21)
with one player. It's got to be a collective effort of scheme, multiple different players stepping up and putting different people in positions to be successful. I think we talk a lot about the depth, but I think the ability for coaching staffs to be able to adapt and improvise and have an understanding of what some of those role players, some of those backups can and cannot do.

AD (08:25)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Ryan (08:47)
and put them out there in position to be successful. I think that part of it is huge too.

AD (08:51)
Yes.

Zach Klein (08:52)
There's

so much I want to dive into this because it's Matt, you brought up such a great point about what it does to the locker room. But here you have the Kansas City Chiefs, as Ad mentioned, out of the playoffs for the first time in the Mahomes era. They're going to a backup quarterback. And you've mentioned time and time on this podcast before, hey, now is the time to put things on tape. You still perform, you still get after it. We got nothing to play for except pride and put things on tape.

the Packers, Matt, as you said, you know, their game behind the Bears who they play this week without their star. Now it's not the quarterback position, but how you make sure that it doesn't deflate you. It doesn't give up on our dreams and our ultimate goals is that the guys is that the coaching staff is at a team meeting saying because it's such an impactful player who had such an important piece of roll with this team.

Matt Ryan (09:39)
think you got to be real about it. I think that's where really good leadership and people in those leadership positions have to be real with the guys. it's, does this hurt? You're absolutely right, it hurts. And are we going to be able to replace it with one person? No, because Micah, it's like you almost got to pay the respect to the man that's out. Micah is a different player, and we all know that.

AD (09:54)
Hell yeah.

Matt Ryan (10:04)
We're going to find a way. And I think you need to lay out a clear plan for the guys of this is how we're going to do it. It might look a little bit different. We might be asking you to play a little bit different role than you have played up until this point. But I think laying out the vision early in the week is critical in these types of games. Because everybody's dealing with it to a certain extent. And it just happens to be a star. And that makes it different.

I think you gotta be real and you've gotta be transparent and lay the picture out and paint the picture for how we're gonna be successful this one week. Because that's all you gotta, you know, like when you have these big things happen, you know, in order to get where you wanna go, you gotta make the big things little. You have to, you know, make it digestible for the players. Like we've gotta get one and this is how we're gonna get one given the opponent that we're playing

AD (10:43)
One week at a time, yeah.

T$ (10:54)
were you surprised Matt or even Aaron just, obviously, you know, Daniel Jones goes down, Colts have this quarterback situation, they go out and get Phillip Rivers. Is there no better options? Is it a comfort factor? I mean, I know there was a relationship probably between a coach and a player, but still that's, you know, guy who's been out of the league for a little bit. How do you look at that whole situation? Is that like a team caught like, hey, we just don't like any of the other options and we're in a sort of

Zach Klein (10:54)
yeah, yeah, no.

T$ (11:18)
win right now, don't have time to take any sort of chances. But then again, mean, Philip Rivers, that's a chance.

AD (11:25)
I don't know. So my understanding of that whole situation, they had no quarterbacks really on a depth chart, right? Everybody was hurt. Philip Rivers got history with the team, with the coach, obviously probably from a terminology and playbook standpoint, he knows something, I'm guessing. And I was impressed by Rivers to come off the couch and like, it was an amazing game, but for him to be able to come off the couch and not...

training, working out, doing nothing like that and being able to have the performance he did, give his team a chance to win the game. And I was impressed. I ain't never seen nothing like that. So I was more interested to see how he do. I know he had one of the plays, he stepped back, he slipped and fall, but I'm like, it was crazy, bro. I was proud to see how he competed, how he played off, coming off the couch. Not to throw no jazz, but...

He don't look like he's in shape. Like it don't look like he was working out, wasn't doing no cardio, none of

him to be able to do that. Look, he went out there and he gave us, he gave us chance. Yeah, he gave us team opportunity to win that game, man. So that's all you can ask for, right? I was impressed by that.

Zach Klein (12:18)
Was he wearing one of those Montclair puffer jackets underneath him? know, he looked like he had padding on padding.

Matt Ryan (12:25)
He had some insulation, for

sure.

Yeah, mean, Todd, to your point, surprised? Yeah, of course. I think everybody was surprised, know, given that he had been as removed, you know, basically five seasons removed from playing his last game. I did have the stat. It was 1,800 days from his last start to that start. And you think about that, man, that is, that's a long, long time. ⁓

AD (12:36)
Hell yeah, everybody was, yes.

Yeah it is.

Matt Ryan (12:58)
You know, but going back to what we were talking about with Micah and the coaching staff, you know, laying out a plan for what we're going to do, is it the perfect plan? No, you know, but I think Shane was, Shane Stiken, their head coach was probably upfront with their guys about, hey, this is how we're going to try and win this game. We're bringing him, Phillip, because he knows the system and I don't think it can be undervalued that he and Shane are tight. They talk every week. You know, the system that

AD (13:19)
Yes, I hope.

Matt Ryan (13:25)
Philip was coaching at his high school team that he was the head coach. The terminology, the verbiage, some of the concepts, they were all the same stuff ⁓ that Shane used in Indy. And so I think those guys and their communication throughout the year, they just talk to each other a lot. And I think that Shane said, listen, we've got a clear plan of how we're going to do this. We've got to play great defense and Indy's defense stepped up. They played awesome.

AD (13:33)
I didn't know that.

Yeah, it did.

Matt Ryan (13:51)
And then offensively, we are gonna run the football. And they did, Jonathan Taylor, I mean, and Abdullah, they both, know, shouldered the load offensively. And then our passing game is gonna be screens. It's gonna be quick game. It's gonna be everything 10 yards in it. And we're gonna see if we can't, you know, find a way to win, you know, doing this and allow Phillip to tap into all of that experience that he has managing a game. And they almost did it.

AD (14:04)
Yes, short versus.

Yeah, almost.

Matt Ryan (14:20)
They

gave themselves a chance at the end and the defense couldn't hold up at the very end of the ball game. But I think it was wildly surprising. Now, I think it's gonna be interesting to see how this plays out the next couple of weeks. Once is one thing. ⁓

T$ (14:21)
Thank

thing. Yeah. How do you

AD (14:37)
That's going to take a toll

T$ (14:38)
not not

AD (14:38)
on your body too. That's what I'm more like, how that shoulder felt to throw on that and taking them hits off the net, right? And you stacking them games, that's going to beat you up.

Matt Ryan (14:43)
Can't be good.

T$ (14:45)
That's what I'm gonna ask him.

I wanna ask Matt that I'm not starting a controversy. I know you're not going back. No one's calling. We're not doing that. We got a lot of things going on, but could you in your mind do what he did, which is, you know, come back. You're obviously, you're in great shape. I see you every week, multiple times a week working out. You're an animal, but could you go and do the same type of thing? If you knew the plays, all that type of stuff, and you had a game plan of those five, 10 yard type plays, could you do it? And would you do it?

Matt Ryan (15:17)
Would I do it? No, no, not, I would not do it. Could I do it? Could I go out there? Of course, I feel like every player has in their mind, like if you told me I had to go out there and throw, know, hand the ball off 35 times and then I'm gonna throw it 25 times and it's quick game and it screens, like of course in your mind, you're like, yes, I could do that. But you have to want to and that's the difference. Phillip like wanted, in his comments, I thought his comments,

AD (15:26)
Yeah.

Yeah.

T$ (15:42)
For sure.

Matt Ryan (15:45)
before and after the game about, know, yeah, basically are all the cards stacked against me? Of course they are. And you know what? It's a lesson to my kids. You gotta go for it. And I loved hearing that from him. And I love Philip. I've known him for a long time. I have a ton of respect for him. But I love that mindset of, yeah, I can do this. And that's why he was the player he was, the kind of mindset to feel like you could go do that.

I don't, I feel different. Like I have no, I don't have any desire to do that.

AD (16:18)
You

don't want to do it, but you could do it if you, if there was, Hey Matt, need.

Matt Ryan (16:22)
I don't know, man.

I told this story this past weekend up at CBS. And I would be worried about my brain would be telling me to do one thing, and then my body just couldn't do it. And I was running sprints AD in my driveway. And this was like a year and a half ago. And I was doing like hill sprints up the hill. And I was feeling pretty good. And I ran the first one fine. I ran the second. I was going to do 12 of them. I ran the third and on my second step.

My calf just like, pop, and I went down. And so it's like, I don't think my body could hold up to be honest with you, even as hard as we're training.

AD (16:57)
Yeah, I you.

T$ (16:59)
I think Matt's being hard on himself.

I was gonna say, cause I mean, our last Friday we got done with our workout and Matt's like, well, I got extra 20 minutes. Like we're not done. We finished early and he's like, let's go do some running. And they took us on the turf and we started doing these running drills. I of course, I'm not gonna say no, cause I'm competitive. I'm competitive. Like in my mind, I'm thinking to myself, like, let's go, we're 20 minutes early. Let's get out of here. And no, so we did do some running and sprinting and Matt, you look good. I think you could do it. I think you're hard on yourself.

AD (17:22)
Yeah.

Matt Ryan (17:27)
You're nice to say it. Todd was putting in the work. Let's give Todd a little love here though. Todd was putting in the

back down. Yeah. it up for Todd. He put in the work. We were pushing sleds. We were pushing sleds AD, which was good. We were doing a a little five, 10, five ⁓ action, a little shuttle, little shuttle action. Yeah, it was pretty good. It was good sweat. It's always nice on a Friday. You're getting ready for the weekend AD, you know.

Zach Klein (17:32)
we clap it up? we clap it up?

AD (17:34)
clap that shit. Yeah, clap it up, man.

T$ (17:34)
Nah, you have to me.

AD (17:36)
Let's go fellas.

T$ (17:46)
shuttles.

AD (17:48)
Hey.

I like it.

Matt Ryan (17:54)
Want to get a good sweat cleanse everything out before the weekend? Yeah, that's

AD (17:54)
Going into it feeling good, looking good. Yes,

Zach Klein (17:58)
All

AD (17:58)
yes.

Zach Klein (17:58)
right. What are two 40 plus gentlemen doing shuttle drills for? Like, why that? What does that do for your body right now?

T$ (18:05)
Don't even answer the question. I just love the 40 plus. Right, right, why

Matt Ryan (18:06)
better question is why not?

AD (18:08)
Why not look?

Why not?

Matt Ryan (18:08)
Why not? Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

T$ (18:10)
Yeah, because we can. There we go. Keep rolling.

AD (18:13)
There you

go.

T$ (18:14)
Keep going.

Zach Klein (18:14)
I'm just curious.

Just curious. There's a lot of things you can do to work out. You guys have said that. It's shuttle drills. I just don't know why. You know, the advent.

Matt Ryan (18:21)
Zach,

it's all about challenging your heart in different ways, right? We like a lot of, we like steady state cardio. Yes, that's good, that's good. That's right. Sometimes you gotta get the heart up, you gotta learn how to bring it down, you gotta get it back up, right? You gotta train, you never know.

Zach Klein (18:24)
Exactly. Heart, mind, yes.

AD (18:29)
Hey fellas, y'all don't gotta explain y'all stuff. Everybody can do what y'all can do. That's why y'all do it, right? You know what saying?

There you go.

T$ (18:38)
Bottom line is we pay a trainer

and we follow what he says to do.

AD (18:41)
And y'all work y'all ass off.

Zach Klein (18:41)
That's what it is.

AD (18:42)
And y'all work y'all ass off. Cheers to you guys, man.

Matt Ryan (18:43)
That's right.

T$ (18:45)
Yes, sir.

Matt Ryan (18:45)
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Zach Klein (18:48)
I want to follow up on the Mahomes situation as a quarterback, Todd, in the agent world, in your lane. When it comes to clients or future contracts, forget Mahomes, but in general, when a star quarterback goes down, he's going to miss a good portion of the year. What kind of conversations do you have with clients on the roster and what about potential free agents that could go to that team? How does that impact where you place your guys?

T$ (19:14)
mean, when you're looking to place a guy, assuming you have choices and different options in free agency, of course you're looking at the whole organization top to bottom. You're looking at the front office and the stability there. You're looking at the coaching staff. You're looking if it's an offensive player, you and you're a receiver, obviously you're going to care, you know, who the quarterback is and what the situation is. So yeah, it affects everything. But I don't think you have to overreact in certain situations. I also think that

Medically today what an ACL is versus what it was say 10 years ago are two different things I don't find teams overly concerned about a guy in the draft that Has an ACL or a guy like him at homes if it's a clean one now if there's all these other Things going on that you're not aware of then then maybe that's different. So Yeah, I I'm not as concerned with it when it comes to that and I've had a guy I mean I had a guy myself bud Dupree who? Tours ACL in December in Pittsburgh

and was a free agent. And that March signed a, I don't know if it was $70 million contract or something like that with the Titans. And yes, the Titans feeling at that time was he'll never be the same guy that he was the first season, meaning that next year, but they expect him to be exactly who he was as the season goes on, but most importantly for the following season. So teams don't necessarily have to look at it just for that minute or the next five months. They're looking at it in a bigger view. And if they get the right player with the right value,

then they trust the doctors and that's where everything comes into play.

Zach Klein (20:36)
I'm interested from all of your perspectives. This is from Sam Block, the Block Spot. He threw out this. Micah Parsons, torn ACL. Patrick Mahomes, torn ACL. Nick Bosa, torn ACL. Malik Neighbors, torn ACL. Tariq Hill, Tucker Kraft, Zach Ertz, Marshawn Latimore, all with torn ACLs. And you throw in Najah Harris with torn Achilles and Daniel Jones with a torn Achilles.

AD (20:57)
Mm.

Zach Klein (21:03)
Obviously a major problem when the best of the best and your stars are going down with significant injuries.

T$ (21:08)
Those are just names, by the way. There's so many others. The linebacker in Baltimore towards ACL this year, my center in Cleveland starting center towards, know, Achilles. I mean, there's more guys, but yes, keep going. Sorry.

AD (21:11)
Yes.

Zach Klein (21:19)
You

know, is it just bigger, stronger, faster, demanding more? Is it just a freak thing? From your perspective, guys, what do you read into that?

Matt Ryan (21:25)
That is, that's loaded. You know, you'd have to see, I haven't looked at this, but Todd, you may have more info on this, but you'd have to see the data, you know, you know, is it happening more frequently than it has in the past? mean, ACLs, I feel like even when I was in college, you were gonna see on your own team, probably three or four of those a year.

right? Whether that was in, you know, spring practice, whether it was in training camp, whether it was during the season, maybe more. But you were going to see that I feel like the one I'd like to see the date on and I have not, I feel like Achilles, I feel like the Achilles has has is happening more frequently now. And Todd, I'd be curious, you know, what your thoughts are on that. But I feel it feels like the Achilles is happening more frequently now than

than anything else.

T$ (22:17)
I don't have the stats on that, but I will say I definitely this year had more guys that had some sort of calf injury. And I was actually trying to talk to them all because I was trying to say like, what shoe are you wearing? What surface are you doing? Like what extra drills? Because is it the sock? I was trying to figure out something because I've never had more guys than this year. And specifically all D linemen, right? Like, I mean, they all had dealt with something. I I had, I swear I had five or six of them that were...

Matt Ryan (22:28)
Yeah.

T$ (22:44)
all dealing with some sort of calf issue. And I just was like, that's just so weird. I've never really had that before. Same position, same type of injury, different levels of that injury. And so there was no sort of common thing, but I was curious because it could be shoes, it could be, you know, a sock thing. I don't know, surface. Not sure what it was. And I couldn't come up with anything. So I don't know all the analysis and stuff, but that was a common thing for sure this year.

AD (23:09)
think it's just one of them things that just happens. You can go about, a guy stretching enough? Because sometimes they say stretching help with that, but sometimes they say you stretch too much, it can happen. So you just don't know, right? Playing the game, you know, like for Micah, he was just, he was on the grass surface. He put his foot in the ground and then that happened. It's just, it just happens, man, I guess. you don't never, I don't like to overthink things and be like, well, maybe was I taking too many?

steps at practice, doing too much at practice, was not stretching enough, was stretching too much. In this game, you just play and you, I was blessed to play from five to the day I was 32 years old and never had no real serious injuries, but a high ankle sprain I needed to get surgery on and I was in my ninth year in NFL. So I was blessed to never experience none of that. So I don't even know how that recovery process is. I seen guys go through it from a mental standpoint, I knew what they was dealing with. I'll be more.

Fuck more worried about the guy's mental side of everything. I know they gonna do what they need to do for physical aspect of getting themselves back together. But that could be tough for a guy that wanna be playing like a mic up. And this happens, it's like, why me? You keep questioning yourself. So it's more like you want them guys to stay mentally where they need to be understanding. You'll be back better than ever. Have that confidence that everything gonna be out. Everything happen for a reason. I know people always say that, but.

You know, you sometimes you got to put it in God's hands, man.

Zach Klein (24:33)
Well, A.D., let me follow up on that because let's say Todd in Athletes First comes out with this data and they say, yes, we have found that it's a higher percentage in the certain sock or the certain cleat or the certain. And they give you that information. Would you be inclined to change

AD (24:47)
data on everything. At practice, we practiced with chips in our backs and our shoulder pads and everything. So they got the data. So if they were to figure something out like that, and you'd be like, oh, it's the cleats you're wearing or it's the sock you're wearing, I don't think it'd be a sock. But if they get that data and it shows, then hell yeah, why wouldn't you change and put yourself in the best situation and stay away from serious injuries like that to make sure that you're on the field? So they do have that data.

Matt Ryan (24:48)
Yeah.

AD (25:12)
share with the world so they know what they need to do,

Matt Ryan (25:14)
And there is all of this. The teams are doing this as well, right? Like this is, nobody wants people to stay healthy more than their own agent and the team that they're playing for. And so they invest in research and technology and all of those different things. we used to do foot scans. We'd go in and we would do a foot scan and...

T$ (25:20)
⁓ yeah.

AD (25:24)
100 %? Yes.

Matt Ryan (25:36)
They would take a 3D analysis of your foot and your gait and how you walked and which cleats made sense for you. And you would get into a spot where, I like the look of this cleat. And they're like, dude, you can't wear that one. Yeah, that is not the one. That is not the bottom for you. So there is serious investment from everybody and data into trying to keep guys as healthy as possible.

AD (25:38)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's what I used to hate that.

and they be on top of it. Even from on practice, like,

yeah.

Matt Ryan (26:03)
The problem is

the sport is so demanding of you physically that no matter how much research you do or how much training you do or all of those, like this is the inevitability of playing football. ⁓

AD (26:07)
Yep.

Zach Klein (26:16)
So in your heart of

hearts, think that it was based on what you said, Matt, in your heart of hearts, you think if there is overwhelming evidence to the league owners that it is safer to play on grass, those with synthetic turf would kick it to the curb and bring in grass. If it was overwhelming data that proved that it was safe.

Matt Ryan (26:35)
Yeah, and they say that there's not. I mean, we talk about both those ACL injuries of Patrick Mahomes and Micah Parsons, both happened on grass. And so, with no data behind it, I don't think they're gonna be inclined to change. But yeah, in my heart of hearts, if there was hard data, I do think that, I think that, but maybe I'm wrong.

Zach Klein (26:37)
Right.

AD (26:44)
on grass.

T$ (26:56)
What do you guys, yeah, for sure. And from a media standpoint, Zach, I mean, this is like a field day for them, right? A chance to overanalyze everything, blow it out of proportion. Do you think that happens? How do you look at what the media is doing with all of this type of stuff?

AD (26:56)
Yeah, because they always found a way to keep you guys healthy.

Zach Klein (27:12)
It

comes into you're having a hot take. Are you being informed? Right? To Matt's point, know, it's the data convincing that one injury or another happens on a certain surface. And then you're questioning those in charge, those with power, those have the ability to make those decisions, why they're not doing that. But because it's a coin flip, you know,

Matt Ryan (27:30)
I think it's,

listen, think anyone would tell you that having star players available, particularly for this time of the year, is good for business. It is good for business. Whether that be at a place like CBS, it's great for business when we have star players on our network and you've got the opportunity to tell their story and get ratings through the roof because of the players that you have. And I think it's...

Zach Klein (27:40)
is the most important.

AD (27:41)
Hell yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Matt Ryan (27:58)
The same can be said for the organizations and the NFL as a whole. It's good for the entire ecosphere of the league to have your great players healthy and available in December, January, and February.

T$ (28:10)
Yeah, people are already talking about the Christmas telecast. I forget who's playing, maybe it's Kansas City and not having my homes and all that kind of stuff. I don't know who's calling that game. ⁓

Matt Ryan (28:19)
No, I think

they were talking about the first game, which is the Commanders and the Dallas Cowboys that's going on. It's got a star-studded crew, AD. Iain Eagle, one of the best in the business on the play-by-play. Nate Berlison, couldn't ask for a better partner there. And yours truly. I'll be on there calling that game as well. So yeah, there we go. Thanks for the plug. That's my agent right there, everybody, Todd France.

T$ (28:26)
⁓ who's calling that one?

Who else?

AD (28:40)
Hey.

T$ (28:45)
I

Netflix

thing, right, Matt?

Matt Ryan (28:48)
Yes, yeah, it's on Netflix. it is, it's a great opportunity and I'm looking forward to it. I loved calling games the one year I did it. So little chance to kind of be a little versatile like Zach Klein. Yeah, do all kinds of different stuff. The more you can do, the more valuable you are. so it's, ⁓ yeah, there you go.

T$ (28:50)
That's a big deal.

Is the prep, is the, the prep.

I love that. Is the ⁓

prep totally different than it would be for the in-studio Sunday? Kind of like blanketing the whole league as opposed to, all right, I'm locking into Cowboys commanders. I need to know everything top to bottom.

Matt Ryan (29:20)
Yeah, wildly different, wildly different. I've said this before, but my first year out of playing, I was calling games and I think people looked at me like I was crazy, but I watched more film to get ready to call a game than I did as a player because as a player, you're going against one defense and I watched a lot of film, don't get me wrong, but.

AD (29:39)
Yeah.

Matt Ryan (29:42)
You know, I knew our scheme. I was, you know, I'd watch our practice stuff. I'd watch some of our, you know, scouting clips and self-scouting and all of that kind of stuff for us offensively. But most of my time was spent situationally going for the defense. When you're calling a game, man, it's, I got to learn these defenses. I've got to learn the offenses. I've got to watch special teams. I've got to do all of those things. And then on top of that, I need to be able to know what happened in week four, because you never know.

AD (29:59)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Ryan (30:10)
when something in a game happens and you're like, wow, that's actually really similar to what happened in week four. So yes, there is a different level of prep that comes to it. I think when you're doing studio analysis, it's more from a 30,000 foot view. You get more into the storylines and those types of things and maybe not as deep into the weeds on the specifics of scheme and situational football.

Zach Klein (30:39)
What was your last year in the league? Was it 22? Yeah, and I might have texted you this. I knew you would be a fantastic broadcaster when the following year you were doing Falcon Saints, the last game of the regular season, and it was your first year out of the league and how you were honest but were able to take a shot at Desmond Ridder for making the wrong decision. And if you were...

Matt Ryan (30:41)
22.

Zach Klein (31:03)
But it was an honest shot. wasn't mean. It was just on national TV pointing out an obvious mistake. So that's the shot, right? You were very critical in a powerful moment. And I'm like, all right, if he can do that one year removed because you're so close to everything, more power to you. And I thought it was was just a sign of things to come.

Matt Ryan (31:21)
Well, I appreciate that. And I think that's the number one thing people ask when you switch from playing mode into analysis is, everybody asks this question, are you going to be willing to be critical of players? And my thought on it was always, number one, if you've done your homework, For the life of me, I'll never feel differently than being a player. If you're uninformed and you're giving an opinion,

AD (31:48)
Yeah exactly.

Matt Ryan (31:48)
I don't like that. But if you've done

your work, if you're informed and you're critical, I think that's fair. And the other thing is, I viewed it like, was like watching myself on Monday after a game. know, nobody was gonna be harder on me and nobody was gonna sit there and say like, yeah, I missed that one. I needed to do that better. This is the reasons why I wasn't successful in that. You have to be self-critical as a player. And I think for the most part, you know,

AD (32:01)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Matt Ryan (32:12)
Most players have thick skin and if you're prepared and you have reasons behind it, I don't think guys take that personally.

Zach Klein (32:17)
Do they have thicc again? No, most of them you

Matt Ryan (32:19)
I think players have, I think it works its way up. Don't you, AD? I think players have the thickest skin and then sometimes it gets a little thinner as you go in different directions.

AD (32:23)
No.

T$ (32:24)
Thanks.

AD (32:28)
I agree with that, yeah, I'ma just stay at that. Yep, you correct. I ain't go do no storytelling. Yeah, I know, but.

Matt Ryan (32:33)
Yeah, there you go.

Zach Klein (32:35)
No, no, no, you never want to. You never want to be quiet

on this podcast, A.D. Come on, spill it.

AD (32:41)
I'm just saying that for me, it's not always the players that ain't got the thick skin, you know? you know, when you around this league long enough, you'll see things, you'll be around things. You got, let me say this, you got guys that's a little emotional, but for the most part, your players is pretty got some thick skin. Sometimes you go into like the, you know, with the coaches and certain coaches you have and...

Zach Klein (32:49)
Who are we talking about?

AD (33:06)
Don't be the one to be a little too emotional, man. Like, relax your ass down some, but... ⁓

T$ (33:11)
I think everyone's

under the microscope though. So like, I think you have to have thick skin. mean, Aaron, as good as he is and as amazing as is and Matt is amazing, there's still going to be people who, you're still human beings. And it's frustrating for people who are going to rip on you and anyone who has two, you know, two thumbs and can sit there and type a tweet and they're not informed and they're not making the right thing. Same thing on the agent front. People have agendas. They want to say this about a contract and they put it out there with a media guy just to, Hey, put this out there, say this, I'll hook you up with another story.

Matt Ryan (33:15)
Absolutely.

T$ (33:40)
because they wanna use it against me in a recruiting, and they bring it into some kids' living room. Everyone's got agendas, you gotta have thick skin. It's not easy. I've been doing this a long time. I try to have thick skin. I got more haters than you can imagine out there. I don't really care. I've tried to like just compartmentalize it, put it away. That's irrelevant. The only people that judge me and that really matter at the end of the day are my clients and they're happy and that's what I care about. But it's tough. it's, you you guys sit here and work your butts off and you got people questioning and doing all that kind of stuff who don't know.

That's tough, I think, and I think everyone in this business has to have that because all of us deal with it on different levels, at different times, about different things.

AD (34:10)
Yeah.

But I always say people's all obligated to have their own opinions. I had it my whole career playing football, Or saying this and saying that. Here in the outside world say that. you can allow that to affect you, right? You hear certain things like, damn, that's crazy. They think that, but it ain't going to affect the way what I'm going to continue to do, continue to work and continue to try to gravitate to and achieve. So I'm a guy that be like, everybody's entitled to their own opinion. And if they say one thing, shit, I'm just going, he can't do this, he can't do that.

T$ (34:44)
Show them.

AD (34:46)
do what I need to do to just to put it on film and show you what I can do and what I'm able to be. So that's how I went about it because my journey was a little different. I heard a lot of shit, you know, from high school to college, even, you know, even in the pros. So all you can do is just put the shit on film. You know, I think that's the one of the best things as athletes, as football players, as professionals, man. if you don't do something right the first, that one week, you got the next week, you got the next week, you got the next week as long as you stay healthy. To continue to put it on film and show what you're about. Yeah, exactly.

T$ (34:54)
yeah.

Matt Ryan (34:54)
Mm-hmm.

T$ (35:12)
Use it as fuel.

AD (35:15)
Right? And you just keep working. And you just keep working.

T$ (35:15)
100%. It's the same thing in

my world. Same thing.

Zach Klein (35:19)
To me, it's about tone and time and when it happened. If a Matt Ryan did his homework on a nationally televised broadcast and he's critiquing a quarterback who made a mistake, there's credibility with that. If Aaron Donald is on broadcast and was talking about a defensive player and what he should, there's something, there's credence there. If Todd is talking to a younger agent about the do's and don'ts, you have that credibility in your craft that you have to take that. It's not mean.

AD (35:28)
That's different. Yeah, 100%.

Matt Ryan (35:45)
Mm-mm.

Zach Klein (35:45)
It's not

a shot. It's coming from, you know, an honest place. If you're true, if you're honest and you're real and you've earned that, mean, listen, I hope all of us can take that constructive criticism and, you know, learn from it, I guess. But thick skin's hard.

Matt Ryan (35:57)
I think there's

a difference between being critical and being malicious. I think there is that space. so I think there's a responsibility in an analyst's role of balancing that. You have to be honest. You have to say what you think. If you're not, you're not doing your job. But at the same time, I think you can be respectful in the ways that you do it.

Zach Klein (36:01)
Yes.

AD (36:01)
Yeah, thanks.

Zach Klein (36:20)
Well said. AD, did you inspire Jeffrey Simmons to have another unbelievable performance? Because a week ago you crowned him the first two-time champion of the 80 Player of the Week. And then this past week, seven tackles, one sack, one forced fumble, but more importantly, one reception, one yard,

T$ (36:40)
⁓ for a touchdown.

Zach Klein (36:42)
touchdown.

AD (36:43)
Look,

he out here doing things I never did before. I ain't never got no touchdown. I know, I will say this. So in 2016, we played the Falcons at the Coliseum. They beat the shit out of us. Matt wasn't even in the fourth quarter. He wasn't even playing in the fourth quarter. But there was a play where, I think it was a fullback of the Titans that cut the ball. He said he took about two, three steps. He fumbled. I scooped the ball up.

Zach Klein (36:48)
Not one in your career?

AD (37:07)
I'll runs and ends on, I do a front flip, the fireworks go off. I throw the football to my kids in the stands. They said it was, they took the touchdown away, man. But to say that, I still got the damn Falcons football in my house somewhere around here. My kids play with it. I'm like, damn, man, I thought I had a touchdown. We just got an ass beat, you know, but it was cool. But that's the only experience I had when I thought I had a touchdown, but I didn't. he's out there playing some good football, accomplishing things that I never done, right? I wish I would have had a touchdown, but I didn't, man.

Matt Ryan (37:19)
Ha ha ha!

AD (37:35)
Keep it going, big dog. Consistency is everything and he been putting it on film, so.

Matt Ryan (37:40)
Maybe you could come back if you come back and play like you need to get it in your, you're a goal line, you're like a goal line specialist.

Zach Klein (37:40)
See you later.

AD (37:44)
⁓ My shoulder,

knees, my toes start hurting when you said that. Man, damn, man.

I wish.

Zach Klein (37:53)
I want to get this straight.

Matt Ryan (37:54)
Everyone's doing

Zach Klein (37:55)
You have a touchdown, non touchdown game football in your house.

AD (37:59)
In my house. Yup. And it's the Falcons football. You should have seen it though. I did the front flip. I rolled. see the kids. I gave my kids the ball like this too, like out the fingertips. I'm like, they wiped the touchdown away. We still got the football. My kids was just, I just seen it. It's probably in the play room somewhere, man. My kids was just playing with the ball.

Matt Ryan (38:00)
love that. It's a touchdown in his book. It's a touchdown in his book. Can't tell them any differently.

Zach Klein (38:03)
you

Whoa,

they took the ball out of the display case and they're using it.

AD (38:24)
I got a bunch of game balls all over my house just thrown everywhere, bro. So I put them in a stand, I'm like, God damn, they just all vanished. They everywhere around the house now. So it is what it is, man. It's the kids' game balls.

Matt Ryan (38:25)
Yeah. Yeah. It's the same in my house.

I

wasn't a big memorabilia or like milestone saver, but I do have a bunch of stuff in my office and all over the place. And I have seen like game balls with the name painted on it and like certain stuff thrown on our driveway with road rash on it. And I'm like, they don't care. My kids don't care.

AD (38:51)
Yes.

It's the one,

it's like the NFC championship balls and shit like that. try, but hey, y'all can get any, don't touch these ones. Or my Super Bowl ball, we got to sign by the whole team. Let put that on the top. Don't touch that one. Cause that, I caught them playing my Super Bowl ball. I'm like, hell no, let me get that one. So they don't know. They just, hey, I love my babies, but golly.

Matt Ryan (39:16)
So I have the last helmet I wore as an Atlanta Falcon, like the last one, pretty cool, right? Like, you your final one. I have a bunch of helmets from throughout the years, but the last one is in the playroom in our house. We've got like a bunch of different helmets like laid out. My kids put it on all the time and like bang their head on stuff. I'm looking at it I'm like, I probably should take better care of that, but it's your kids, man.

AD (39:24)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Matt Ryan (39:43)
It's the beauty to it kind of humbles you. You see them take these things that are, you know, maybe milestone moments and that they do whatever they want with them.

AD (39:48)
meaningful to you. Yeah, exactly.

Zach Klein (39:52)
It looks like they can't touch the game balls behind you now though, Matt. Those look like some special balls. Like they ain't coming in that office, are they? Nah, they stayed away.

Matt Ryan (39:57)
No, I mean they can come in. There's

AD (39:58)
No, he said nah.

Matt Ryan (40:00)
a few of them up there that are a little bit different,

yeah, just out of reach.

T$ (40:03)
Just out of reach.

Zach Klein (40:06)
What about you? You got a nice home office at your compound. What do you got some you got some sign gear that you keep framed on the walls? But you like there's gonna be some cool stuff there you got some.

T$ (40:13)
My girls could care less about any of that stuff, mine

is dominated by autographed Michael Jordan stuff. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yes,

Zach Klein (40:21)
All right, that's pretty good.

Matt Ryan (40:22)
pretty good. It's very valuable.

AD (40:23)
You know, it's really good. Yes.

Zach Klein (40:26)
Hey, Matt, you got time for Hit Us with a Two-Minute Drill?

Matt Ryan (40:28)
Yeah, let me get the clock rolling. You guys ready?

T$ (40:31)
Let's do it.

Zach Klein (40:32)
Let's do it.

Matt Ryan (40:32)
Stopwatch is on. All right, we're gonna go, let's go Todd, Zach, AD. All right, ready? Here we go. It's rolling. All right, Todd, first question. I'm very curious about those calf strains and the studies you did after I was running up that hill. What did you find about the sneakers? Is there anything I can do to change my training?

T$ (40:50)
⁓ No, I think you're doing good. think you just need a little stretch a little bit more in the beginning and maybe not do the 12 hills that you were planning on doing. I think maybe just work your way up.

Matt Ryan (41:00)
The volume's too high, got it. All right, Zach, I'm saying we talked about being critical. Give me one memory you have where you may have said something critical or whatever and they came back at you. One of the athletes or coaches came back at you with something you may have said.

T$ (41:02)
Yes, got it.

Zach Klein (41:19)
Just Google Zach Klein, Trae Young, injury. That's all I gotta say.

Matt Ryan (41:24)
All right, we'll put the link. We'll put the link in the bio, right? We'll put the link in the bio. AD, I talked to JJ Watt. We're talking about Philip Rivers. I talked to JJ Watt this week. He said he could go back right now, give them 20 pass rush snaps and come away with at least one sack. If you had 20 pass rush snaps, how many sacks are you coming away with?

Zach Klein (41:25)
We got into it.

AD (41:28)
There you go.

Zach Klein (41:28)
Link

in the bio. We got into it.

AD (41:40)
I seen it.

I heard that.

Am I getting one on ones?

Matt Ryan (41:51)
You get, well, you go to Green Bay right now. You go to Green Bay right now and you go out there with that defense. Okay, you're in a similar spot to Micah.

AD (41:52)
So 25 sacks how many?

If I get some one-on-one opportunity,

if I get some one-on-one opportunities, I can walk away with a few sacks Still, a few sacks.

Matt Ryan (42:03)
A few sacks. like that. I like

that. I love

All right, Todd, it's bowl season, all right? It's also portal season, and I'm curious, which season is crazier, this time right now in college football or the beginning of free agency in March in the NFL?

T$ (42:18)
honestly, I'd almost say the portal stuff. I mean, it's just so many players and so much madness and such unregulated stuff and it's very fast paced. Free agency is just, is also crazy, but I don't think you have the volume of things going on. But yeah, I think right now this is, of course I'm in it. So it's also fresher. Ask me that again in March and I'll probably have a different answer. And I'll say free agency is 10 times more stressful and busy.

Matt Ryan (42:41)
Got it. Last one here, Zach. All right. We talked about memorabilia we have, right? Todd, Jordan signatures, AD, football's going around. What's your best piece of memorabilia you got in the office right there?

Zach Klein (42:52)
All right, hold up.

Matt Ryan (42:53)
It could be personal too.

I see some awards back there.

Zach Klein (42:55)
No, no.

AD (42:57)
I see them. It's them Emmys.

Zach Klein (43:00)
All right, put the earpiece back

have a Super Bowl signed by Zach Klein. There you go. That's the most, no, I'm just messing.

Matt Ryan (43:09)
Yes, yes, Super Bowl 53. Who's in that one?

T$ (43:11)
I'm so confused. I'm so confused.

Zach Klein (43:13)
Super Bowl

got me.

T$ (43:15)
That's what you reached for is your most valuable. AD send him a sign ball please, Matt, give him something.

Zach Klein (43:18)
It was a joke, Todd. Gee Lee. It's

not in here. do have a I do have. Oh, Matt's going for he's. Yeah, you have something for me matter, you're reaching for so.

T$ (43:29)
Either Matt just couldn't believe it and he left or he's got something for you. One of the two.

Matt Ryan (43:36)
Okay, this is my favorite piece of memorabilia, okay? This is from Boston College Clemson, September 24th, 2005. It was my first ⁓ road start in college. It was the first ACC win. We had just switched from the Big East to the ACC and we won in overtime and I got this ball and I still have it, what, 20 years later. This is my favorite piece of memorabilia right here.

T$ (43:36)
He's got an index card he's gonna sign for you.

AD (43:59)
Mmm.

T$ (44:02)
That's awesome.

Very cool.

Zach Klein (44:04)
So cool.

AD (44:05)
like

that.

Zach Klein (44:05)
That cannot be thrown on the Ryan household driveway. No chance for that. That's awesome. Upstairs, that is amazing. I do have a signed Michael Jordan free throw dunk and he autographed it and says to Zach, to one Hall of Famer from another. And he was like, you know, how many years in league? Pretty cool. So that's mine. This was a joke, Todd. Thanks for playing. All right. Gentlemen, fun conversation as always. Thanks for dropping the knowledge.

Matt Ryan (44:08)
This one's flat. It's not going anywhere.

AD (44:17)
Mmm.

Matt Ryan (44:27)
I love it. I love it.

T$ (44:27)
No, that's good.

That's good. That's good.

Zach Klein (44:33)
Don't forget to hit the like and subscribe button and we'll see you next week, folks, on the Inner Circle. Thanks for hanging.