Terry Fontenot - 20+ Year NFL Front Office Executive

With the NFL Draft approaching, The Inner Circle Podcast goes inside one of the most fascinating and misunderstood processes in pro sports with former Atlanta Falcons GM Terry Fontenot.

Fontenot spent more than 20 years inside NFL front offices, rising from scouting assistant with the New Orleans Saints to Falcons general manager. In this episode, he gives a rare, honest look at what really happens in the weeks leading up to the draft, how boards are built, how much teams actually pay attention to mock drafts, why private visits matter, and how front offices sort through film, analytics, medicals, interviews, and background research to separate great players from risky picks.

Terry also explains why teams can get fooled by combine performances, why some elite college players still slide, and how a player like Xavier Watts can be undervalued despite dominant tape. He breaks down the traits that make a great scout, why evaluating quarterbacks is the hardest job in sports, and how organizations try to balance best player available versus team need.

The conversation also goes deeper than football. Fontenot shares what teams are really looking for in a player’s character, why consistency in evaluation matters, and how someone who never played the game can still rise to the top of an NFL front office. It’s an especially revealing segment for anyone interested in the future of women in football leadership and the many paths into the league beyond playing.

And of course, there are plenty of great stories along the way — including negotiating with Todd France, the nightmare of trying to stop Aaron Donald, what draft rooms are really like when the clock is ticking, and how NFL teams think through franchise-changing quarterback decisions.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hey, how are we doing, everybody? Zach Klein here on the Inner Circle Podcast. And this week, with the NFL draft upon us, we break down what it takes to get ready for this monumental moment. We are doing it with Terry Fontenneau. Terry spent more than 20 years at various NFL teams in various roles, starting with the New Orleans Saints. Back in 2003, he was a scout for the Saints, worked his way up where he was a director of pro scouting, an assistant general manager, vice president pro personnel, and then in 2021 was named the general manager, most recently, of the Atlanta Falcons. Terry goes through the process of teams may or may not looking at mock drafts from respected NFL insiders and how this may or may not influence their draft boards. Terry also tells a great story of one player who did not have a great combine, fell down in the NFL draft, but turned out to be a major impact player. What happened there? What was the inside story of that? Terry will break it down. He also discusses what makes a great scout and different paths to becoming a general manager. Terry played college ball at Tulane, so obviously he has the inside knowledge of what it takes to be a player. My daughter, I was telling Terry, never played the game, obviously, but she wants to become a general manager. How can women, how can men out there who never played the game but are interested in it realize their NFL dreams and become general managers? All of this and more, but we begin our conversation by asking Terry, what was more fun and more painful at the same time? Me asking him questions at the local ABC station here in Atlanta, getting ready for Falcons draft or dealing with Todd when it came to negotiating with Grady Jarrett or Matt Ryan. Hope you enjoyed this edition of the Inner Circle Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

So definitely dealing with Aaron Donald. And I still remember like it was yesterday, week two, and this is uh I'm in New Orleans, and we're we're we have a really good team going into the season. It's 2019. And Aaron, you remember this game? Yeah, Drew Brees. Drew Brees. And the way Drew explained it, he said it's like you're dropping back, and it's like if you throw as hard as you can, and at the point of impact, your hand hits a brick wall. Yeah, I remember it. And so now Drew's out the game. We lose 9-27, and Drew's out for a month and a half. You know, the the real good players can ruin a play, the elite players can ruin a game, the Aaron Donalds can ruin a season. And look, it's challenging dealing with everything else, but I would say I'd put Aaron Donald at number one, the most challenging thing to deal with.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Not too bad, man. Not too shabby, not too shabby, man.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Yes. So dealing with Todd was cake or dealing with my questions was easy.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Is that what you're trying to tell us?

SPEAKER_00 2:43

You know what? This is this is Todd. So I love Todd. He's obviously one of the best in the business, clearly. His superpower is he can like instantly turn it on and off, man. Like I still remember one day we were talking about, and maybe we're talking about a granny extension. This is shoot, this is a couple years ago. And I remember I was like, I was pulling up to my daughter's gymnastics meet or something, and I'm talking to him, and I said something to tick him off, and he went visceral like instantly, and he's just going. But the craziest part about it was he was with like the kids getting ice cream. And because at some point I heard him say vanilla or chocolate, and I'm like, how did he do that? So, and I remember hanging up and I'm like, I don't know how he did that, but that's who I want representing me. That's what you that's what you think about. But he has this superpower. He can go from zero to a thousand and right back. Kind of, you know how Bichon can like just instantly hit that top speed and go right back down and throttle down and stop. Ty can do that.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

We had some, we had some good, we never had issues. We always were we had a great relationship. Like he he listened to my viewpoint, I'd listen to his viewpoint. We actually had to deal with a lot of stuff. I mean, Matt Ryan being traded was a big deal and that whole process and how to handle that and moving the roster bonus to you know figure out what was the best way to do it for both teams. Grady Jarrett, quote unquote, offering an extension. I was like, uh Terry, that's a pay cut. But um that that that whole conversation remembers the exact conversation.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah, dude. He's like, we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

He's like, we're gonna do an extension. And I was like doing the math in my head. I was like, I think that's a pay cut, Terry. But no, but we so we did have some difficult things with two very tenured you know players. Um, but it was always professional, always good, always a trusted source, good friend, and always respected him, thought he did a great job. So enjoyed it. I'm not saying we always agreed, we definitely didn't, but he definitely took the time to hear my perspective, which I always think is good because you can think one thing and I and I can think one thing, but hearing the other person can can affect that and change it. So don't be so stubborn, just at least hear the other side versus like, I don't care, I'm dying on that hill no matter what. So I that was always good.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

I agree. And what I appreciate about Todd is there were never some people play a game with this. They play the negotiating game and they they read their negotiating books one-on-one, and they were gonna start at a certain place and they're gonna try to, but there was never that with Todd. There were real conversations, honest conversations to where you could really say, okay, well, Todd, this is the challenge on this end. How would you handle this? And what do you think about this? And he's gonna give you some real information. You always knew where you stood, and you never had to try to figure out a game. There was real candid conversation. So, like you said, there's some times that we're not gonna agree with something, but you always knew where you stood, and you were truly trying to figure it out in the right ways.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

Yep. I appreciate that. I loved having you on because I've I have a bazillion questions. I just want to start off with real quick, Zach, with one first quick question. So, like you go to Combine, you got all the pro days. What are teams doing and and what are you doing like April, right? Because most of the pro days are kind of over by then, you know, maybe they bleed in. And I know you still have visits going on and all that stuff, but when teams say, like, we're going into draft meetings, you know, from all of April leading up, is it and are guys and do grades change much from I don't know, at some point are they sort of what they are, or or is there still movement going on? But like what goes on that whole month of April?

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Yeah, good question. So that's when you get in those April meetings, and they're different, handle different in different meetings in in different buildings. But the process I've been a part to, and the process I really love, is when you're in the December meetings and the February meetings, that's just the scouts. So that is the scouting staff, the area scouts, and you're going through the the all the information on the players, and it's all based off film, and it's just all based off football at that point because you think about it, you've got December, so you've got the whole season in. And then when you get in the February meetings, that's right after the All-Star Games. So it's all based off of football. So you love to set the board at that point because again, you're based off football. You don't have confirmed measurables, you don't have your coaches aren't involved yet, they haven't met with them yet. You don't got, you're just doing it all football and you set that board. And you got to take a snapshot of it because now you get into the combine, you get the confirmed measurables, you have all your medical meetings, you get your coaches involved, and you go through their evaluations, you get the analytics department involved. So those April meetings, now you have all the information. But where you got to be careful is sometimes all that information, again, you look at a guy like Aaron Donald, and if you say, okay, well, you start looking at these different this measurable or this or that, and you start, he may start sliding down your board, but when you were just doing the baseball football, he was way up here. So you got to make sure that you don't eliminate or you don't bring players down, because again, that's the same thing you can get fooled because you got these workout warriors that in their underwear, they went out and did these unbelievable things. And so you go back to the tape, and now you're starting to make excuses for players, and you're starting to, well, they're running this scheme, so maybe that's why he's behind our well, you know, we're gonna use him like this, and we're gonna, but if the if he wasn't a good football player on tape, then you got to make sure you always think about those things in the right way. So those April meetings, you have all the intel, all the information, and you're going back through, but you can't adjust your board too much unless it's a medical or unless it's some character stuff that you uncovered. But you got to make sure that you're always still focusing on football.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask. Like you ever had a guy that was on film, you watched the football for on film, looked good, Nathan, but at the combine, maybe didn't run the right 40 that you thought he would run, or wasn't as fluent in his hip movements or something? Did you did he ever did it ever slide, even though you had him at the top of the board on film? But when it when it came to the shorts and t-shirt, he just didn't perform how you thought he would perform. Did he ever slide to a point where he probably would have been a first-round pick, but I didn't like what he did at the combine, so maybe he might be a second round guy. Did it ever happen? Yeah, AD.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Look, Xavier Watts. How do you get Xavier Watts in the third round? That shouldn't happen. This dude had more takeaways in college football than anybody else, and he did it on a consistent basis. He's still kind of new to the position because he played receiver initially, and then you move him to defense, and he's a dominant player, all American safety that just takes the ball away. He's tough, he's instinctive, he's all those things. And now you get him in shorts, and nothing special about the workout, nothing stands out about like the offseason, all the measurables and all those things. Nothing stands out significantly. But when you go back to the tape, this is a first-round talent at the safety positioning that has all the critical traits. But when all these other things happen, then people lose sight of that. And that's how you end up getting a player like that in the third round.

SPEAKER_04 9:53

Crazy. How hard, Terry, is it to not scout the helmet? Because if I'm coming in, I'm looking at the guys in the power five conferences. I'm thinking in the lower conferences, they're not playing any competition. Of course, this guy should be a stud defensive tackle or a wide receiver. Put him against Ohio State or Georgia or Indiana competition, he'd get smoked. How hard is that process?

SPEAKER_00 10:12

So it's, you know, where it's really shifting big time, because you do know, you know, if you get a player from a certain school, what you expect from that player, and you wanna, you want to draft out of the power conferences, you want to do that. Where it's really significantly changing is now with the changing landscape of college and even high school with uh with the transfer portal. That's significant because now, even more so, you're focusing on those schools because the small school guys aren't gonna, they're not gonna stay there. Like when I was in college, we had at Tulane, we had Mueldi Moore, and I remember the Mueldie's second game of his freshman year, he ran for over 100 yards against LSU. And Nick Saban, after the game, kind of sent a message to his, because Mueldi grew up in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and Nick Saban said something. He was the head coach at LSU at the time, obviously, and he said, he said, we got this guy right in our backyard running all over us. What are we doing? And so Mueldi would have got paid to transfer, obviously, when you look at the Jameer Gibbs that end goes from Georgia Tech to Alabama. So I'm saying all that to say those guys aren't gonna stay at those smaller schools. In some cases, they do, but for the most part, they're gonna end up at those bigger schools. So we're gonna get less players from the smaller schools. Like you got to really drill down on the bigger schools because even if a player's not playing as much, they're all pretty much gonna be there. And that's where you want to focus your time because it's significant in terms of the difference of the competition.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

You know, right now we're we're in like that mock draft season, right? I mean, the mock drafts every day by anybody who has, you know, a finger and a thumb that can type, you know, and but how much do teams pay attention to the mock drafts? Because truthfully, some of those mock drafts, at least from reputable sources that you like and trust or you know are somewhat connected, some of that is information they're getting. But then again, there's so much this is the time of misinformation also. So are they intentionally telling this guy something because then it goes out there? Do you pay attention whatsoever or or do you completely dismiss it, or you have to acknowledge them? How how does that go?

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yeah, you have to acknowledge them. What you do your best to do is you want to have your sources and try to get that intel in those ways because, like you said, there is a lot of misinformation out there. All you're trying to do is you're trying to figure out if your guy's gonna be there or not. You know, especially when when you're picking in the top 10, you got your stat and you know where you stand. Look, we knew we were taking Drake London, and we expect him to be there. When you look at the mocks, he's gonna be there. And you expect him because he didn't run the 40. So, but you still want to gather intel, but be careful because you don't want to say too much, even to an agent, because they might want him to go somewhere else, or they might share that information and say, look, if he gets to Atlanta, they're taking him. And so you got to be really, really careful in terms of you don't want to give too much, you want to gather it. But that's what you're trying to figure out if your guy's gonna be there or not. Look, we knew we're taking Bijan and we we knew we're taking him at that point. You expect him to be there because he's a running back. But who knows? Who knows if Philly's gonna pivot and say, hey, we're gonna match him up with Jalen Hurts. Nicole Lynn, she represents Jalen as well. And so who knows if they're gonna get that done, and they've already talked about it. So you want to be guarded as much as I respect Nicole. I would never tell her that if he's there, we're gonna take him because you just don't know. Like you, you don't know if information's gonna get out there in some kind of way. So you look at those things to try to figure out if your guy's gonna be there, make sure you have it stacked the right way, but you got to guard your information as much as you can.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

How much during these this April, when you do have guys, I know you're in meetings, but they have a lot of these at 30 visits. And, you know, a lot of times for me, when I get guys that get drafted, it's shocking to me how many times a guy gets drafted that he literally had no visit with. He had no he may have an informal, but he didn't even have a formal. Like basically the team showed not no attention to him whatsoever. And I know I think sometimes that I don't know, but I think sometimes that's intentional. They know there's not a lot of question marks, they don't want to send any signals whatsoever that they like this guy for the reasons you were just talking about. So someone doesn't go trade in front of them to go grab the guy. Um and they're and you guys are all secretive, aren't you? Like when you go to a pro day or don't go to a pro day, like do we send the GM there that sends a red flag, we're interested in something. If we send that position coach, the coordinator, like, I mean, obviously if it's super high up, like you're gonna do your things, but there's some of that poker playing that goes on also. But the interview process during the 30 visit, like how important are those? And I are they more to check a box for some guys and then for others that you truly do have questions, it's it's relevant and really important.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah, different reasons, and you do have to because you can start reading patterns and you have a book on every GM, every regime, every head coach, every team, and you know that okay, this is this is why they bring players in on 30 visits, and this is what this is gonna meet. So you look at those indicators. What most teams do is it's different reasons, whether you're bringing a player in that wasn't at the combine to get medical or what, and again, you want to be careful with that because a team can you can be identifying a guy that you want to get on day two or three, but you you're bringing in a guy that you have more character information that you want to dig into. You can do these zooms, but when you're talking about some players, I think those visits are really cool because when you're in the GMC or the head coach's seat, you're gonna get a different person. You're gonna get the you're gonna get the absolute best of that player. But what I used to love, so I started in this business in 2002, 2004. And so I'm a scouting assistant in New Orleans, and so I'm the one driving these players around and sitting with them at the physicals, and I'm doing all that stuff. So I've been in situations, I remember um some players that I bring them to the head coach, I bring them to the GM. They've got a certain tenor about themselves and they're handling themselves the right way. And as soon as we get in the car, they completely flip it. And he, they are bad human beings. They're treating me like crap. They're on the phone talking about crazy stuff, and you can see it. Like I'm like, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

And bad agents, bad agents didn't didn't did not teach them no matter what, and know who's around, especially the guy picking you up at the airport or driving you from the hotel. Everyone is talking.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Todd, you would be shocked. You would be shocked that some of the things you get, and still to this day, I always sit down with the with the scouting assistants and go through it and go through the people that they're with. And you you can see the ones that are really consistent with how they handle themselves, and you can see the ones that are the complete opposite of that. So it's it's very unique. So, so I always still valued bringing those guys in on the 30 visits, but you have to handle it a certain way, Todd. You have to sprinkle in some players that you may not have interest in. You got to do it for the different reasons. And sometimes if you have a guy that it's he checks all the boxes, it's real clean. We've done Zooms with him, we met him in Indy, we're good. Like we don't need to bring him in again. So you can be in those types of situations, but having those guys, there's something to having people in person. And I was telling somebody the other day, AJ Hawk, I still remember when we brought him in, this was 06, and we had the second overall pick when I'm in New Orleans. And initially, Reggie was going number one. So you're picking between, I don't want to say it was like A.J. Hawk, the Brickenshaw Ferguson, Mario Williams. These are your guys that you're working through. So I remember bringing in AJ and picking him up, and he's like, he's working out. It's like five, he wake up at 5 a.m. to work out, and we had to pick him up at seven, but he's making sure he gets his workouts in. And so like it's cool the things that you can learn about players when you get them in person. And so I I think uh I think that's still really valuable to do.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

And not having that time limit, what is it, the in the 18 minutes or something? Well, that's not enough time necessarily to really get to know somebody.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Is there no it's such a quick you you gotta go in with a specific plan and know exactly what you're trying to do. Are we just focing focusing on the mental, are we just trying to answer some questions? You gotta know exactly what you want to do. What I do think though, Todd, I know y'all probably read the Malcolm Gladwell book, Blink, about, you know, there's an instinct, and sometimes when you see somebody right away and you can feel something right away, you know, so there's that part of it, you know, like the the apples to apples. If I'm gonna meet with, say, um, 10 corners, 10 of the top corners back to back, and kind of seeing how the different ones handle it, you know, and sometimes it it's challenging for them. I don't know how they do it, and it's it's it's horrible because some of these players, it's 11 o'clock at night, and you're meeting with a player that's been in physicals all day, and now he's gotta wake up at 5 a.m. But seeing the guys that handle it really well and seeing the guys that don't handle it really well, it can be and be a difference maker, just that kind of blink reaction.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Interesting. Business sales, everything. So, how how important was, I guess, the you know, the personality as these guys, right? You you got the talent, but bringing these guys in the character part, because obviously me as a player, I understood the importance of guys having all the talent in the world, but being shit his and being the virus of the locker room that can fuck up everything you're trying to build. So, how important was that bringing right the right talent, but the right character guys in the locker room?

SPEAKER_03 19:31

To add to that, you mentioned analytical earlier. Teams are now doing, I mean, S2, AIQ, there's all these different, you know, the was it the Hughes or whatever. There's like four different or five different personality tests you teams are all using and trying to get. So I don't think the average person understands how much deep of a dive teams are doing. How much do those tests come into play? Yeah, but not just the personality, just from uh an interview perspective, like Aaron's talking about, but how much do you guys look into the actual tests and the results of I don't know what they all show or whatever, but how does that all come into play too?

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Man, it it's it's so detailed. And that's the most important thing because the easy part is evaluating the player. You know, when you just evaluate the player, because you evaluate the tape. Um again, you're gonna get your analytics involved in the evaluation process in terms of looking at the measurables, what's what's correlating to success with the measurables? Is this player an exception? What's the the specific test that makes, hey, the three-cone at safety or or what tests mean more at the position? So you got your analytics department, you got the coaches fitting them into the scheme, and how are we going to use them? So coming up with the vision of the player, I would say that's the easy part. The more challenging part is figuring out the character because these are human beings. There are a lot of variables and there's so much pressure. You're putting them in different elements. And so that's the really, really challenging part, and there's so many levels. So the first step, but basically, if you picture, you've got a file on each player, and it's like a book. So you've got a book on Aaron Donald, and it starts when he gets in college, and every piece of information you get from the sources, and you're gonna gather all that intel. So it starts with the area scouts' boots on the ground, they're in the schools, they're talking to everybody that they can from the pro liaison, the coaches, the people that clean up at the facility, the people in the training room, academic services. You're talking to everybody that you can to gather as much information as you can and know who that player is. And the good scout don't just gather information and say, okay, here you go, here's all the stuff we got. The good scouts are gonna figure it out. Hey, he loves ball. And I can tell you, I can tell you why, I can go through all this stuff and kind of tell you, but I'm not just gonna say what this person says or that person says. He does love ball. This is the challenge you're gonna have. They basically gather everything. And give you the information. So it starts with the area scouts, and then you get into the offseason. You got we have two different services in Atlanta and New Orleans. We have two different services that go through the background checks. And so all the legal stuff. Not just looking at that player, but looking at his circle, his parents, his close friends, his siblings, his cousins. Whoever's in that close circle, you do a deep dive on them as well to know who he's surrounding himself with. So you have two separate background checks. Again, you're having teams that do want to do these tests where there's AIQ or these different tests, and you're trying to figure these things out. Like all those, you're trying to figure it out, then you get to spend the time with them and sit down with them and go through that. So there's so many levels to figuring out the character where you have to be consistent. And this is just being real, like whether you're talking about a player or whether you're talking about character, the teams that do the best job, they have a set prototype. They have, okay, this is the type of player that we're looking for. These are the measurables we want. This is the skill set that we want. This is the way he plays the game. You have a set standard with what you're looking for, and you don't keep changing it based off of who you have in your building. Look, we've all been a victim to it. In Atlanta, we had four different defensive coordinators over a five year span. And so that can make it challenging because you'll have certain players that fit that this particular coach, Nate Laman, might be the prototype Mike linebacker. This particular coach, Devine Diablo, might be the prototype linebacker. So it shifts every time you have a different group in, the teams that do the best are consistent with what they're bringing in and they adjust your scheme or whatever it is where you need to. It's the same thing, AD with the character. You have to have your set standard of what you're bringing in and not change that based off who's in your building. Because if you have a certain staff, they might say, okay, well, we can handle this or we can handle that. And a certain staff may not be able to handle it or may not want to handle it or deal with it. You have to be consistent with what you're looking for so you're not chasing your tail. So so you're not reinventing the will every year, whether you're talking about character or whether you're talking about the actual play on the field. Make sure you have a consistent set of measurements, consistent standards, and and you stay true and stay disciplined to that.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

I mean, you think I always you you get the guys that uh um talent trumps sometimes, right? Because sometimes guys just fit a square peg around hole, you kind of turn a blind eye, you want to see the guy in a certain light, and that happens, right? I mean, and everyone makes those types of mistakes. I also think it's funny, like we talk about the deep dive on analytics and personalities. It's uh every year I always have families call me and be like, the school is asking me, you know, uh some investigator reached out to the high school to get their reports, you know, about and their grades and like the you know, their report. I don't know, if they have files when you're in high school, if you got in a fight, whatever. Suspended all day, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I people I people are always shocked by that. I'm not shocked by it, but families every year are just like, wow. And I'm like, there's nothing you need to worry about.

SPEAKER_04 25:12

I mean, I think if you did anything these days, man.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

If you don't give permission, I think it's a bigger red flag. So I think you have to.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

For sure. We're gonna have all that. We're gonna have the things that you posted when you were 13 years old.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

There's nothing you guys are asking that you don't already know the answer to. You just want to see what they're gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Absolutely. And it's funny, Todd, because you just said it like there is a there's a sliding scale. We know this. So when we go through these meetings, picture we're in the April meetings, and then you start off with the character, right? So the scout is gonna go through the character information, get everyone up to speed because you have the coaches in there that haven't been through that process. Again, different teams do it differently, but so you go through and you're reading the character, and sometimes you the coach might be hearing it that doesn't know it yet, and he's like, What are we talking about? And this is the stuff, this is the character stuff, and and then you put on that tape, and then they might have kind of like started doing something else, and they start seeing what's happening on the tape, and they say, Read the character again. Now tell me.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Maybe we can work with it a little bit. We could probably work with it a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Fix him. I can fix him. Yeah. He's like, I can I can teach character, I can't teach him how to get to that quarterback.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Make it three sacks a game, man. Maybe we could we could probably put a good veteran with him. That's it. We'd be good.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Exactly. Exactly right. That's what they do, Aaron. They do that. They'll they'll get a hey, we'll get an older vet here, he'll train him, we'll teach him how to be a pro. Like they'll that's what I said. Fit a square peg in around hall. And everyone's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

I've been playing with guys that had all the talent in the world, but didn't have the work ethic and didn't want to put the extra work in and time to even, you know what I'm saying? So I'm like, if you don't want it, you don't want it. It's gonna eventually show in the league, but and you can go you're gonna get singled out for sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

And you gotta balance it out. Where you really um, what I always try to do is, and you know, my purpose, like, my purpose in life is I truly want to help people, help people grow, and and no different than when I was growing up through it, you always want to help get the most out of everybody. And so, like, there's so many, some of these things that you read and and about players and about what they went through in life, and there's times that, and I know Aaron, you've been around guys, obviously, Todd, you've been around a a million players that just come from a bad situation, and the fact that they made it out and the fact that they're in the situation that they're in, like, you want to help them. You want to help this, they might not have life skills, but man, you look at how they came up, so you want to help them as much as you can. You have some that are just bad human beings, you should just stay away from, but you go through that whole process to figure that out and to truly say, hey, is this someone that's made some mistakes but has a good head on their shoulders and we can help them truly grow? Or is this someone that we should absolutely stay away from? It's a that's why you go through the whole process, get all the detailed information because they're not all equal. And again, Todd, I'm sure and AD, sure y'all have seen some that, man, I see where this guy started out, but man, it's it's special. And both of y'all probably had impacts on certain people's lives. And and I know for a fact that you do, Todd, you've had impact on people's lives, and you've completely changed the landscape of uh of where they are. And so, like, you want to do those things when you can. It's just that weighing process.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

Terry, you mentioned it all starts with the area scouts. What traits, what makes a great area scout? And Baltimore Ravens general manager Eric DaCosta had a great thing recently where he said there was a time, you know, years ago where they would hand out cash rewards to the scouts if they were able to identify and the team would later find this player and sign them as an undrafted free agent. And then that player makes a team, they would hand out some cash. So, did you ever do anything like that? And when it goes to the very beginning of the league, getting into it, well, it's back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

I think a lot of people did that. But Zach, where you got to be careful is when these scouts, like they're hustlers now, and so when they find out they can make some money about, they kind of start stacking the deck a little bit, and all of a sudden this player's a little bit better than because you think about it, that backboard, those undrafted free agents, you didn't look at all those guys. Like you can't, if you have 200 players on your front board, then you're focused on that, and you got to make sure you get that done. And with the coaches, so you can have some backboard guys that only one area scout looked at, or two area scouts. So you really got to trust them in those cases. So they start selling these guys, and you talk about chaos. When you get to the end of the draft, it's like the floor of Wall Street, and um on the trade floor, and you got so you got you got scouts, you got because you're trying to sign like 15 or 20 guys, you know.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

So the worst. It it's it's I I when I started and I was and I had guys and they weren't getting, I used to say to myself, I'll I don't care if a guy's projected fourth. I'm not doing it because he can slide. That is the most miserable process. And then you're dealing with friends, and I feel bad, like I want him to get the guy, but like it's not the right fit. And I'm like, dude, you had three seventh rounders. You didn't take my guy. I'm not gonna give him to you as a free agent. If you he wasn't good enough for you to draft of one of your three seventh rounders, I'm not doing it. But I I hate that, but keep going. It's chaos. I agree. Complete chaos after the draft.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

You usually have your cap guy is standing in front of a grease board and he's he's writing out you got your number, the money that you have, and then you got somebody running in and saying, I gave this guy this much, and I gave this guy this much, and you're kind of adding and subtracting, and then you're over budget, so now you're nigging on something that you gave somebody too much.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

That's when you call and you say, tell Terry to give some of his personal cash. I I need more money for my guy. I don't care what that little grease board guy is saying over there. Go back and get money from Terry directly. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

It is an absolute mess. It's a mess. But the the what makes a scout really special, like we said, these are the three main components with a scout is you you you gather information, you have to present the information and evaluating the player. Uh, presenting the information is writing reports, obviously, and then the verbal communication on it. And so those are the three main components. And when you have a really good scout, first of all, you trust them with the information. So you know, like I said, they're not just giving you a lot of stuff and saying this source said this or this source said that. They're not reporters. You need to tell me, you need to tell us what you feel about the player based off everything you gather. So they can gather everything and then come up with where they stand on the player. So they're detailed, they're obsessed with it, they never stop. They're constantly, again, the scouts that just get all their stuff done and turn it in and go walk away and start working on the next year. That's not what you want. You want guys that are so obsessed with it and they're constantly working. They're obsessed with the hunt. They're always trying to find a player. They're digging in every city. You want people that are truly obsessed with the process, and then you have to have guys that are convicted. They're gonna be convicted and they have the confidence and to be able to tell you this is what I see this player being. Look, it's a low hit rate. First round's about 50-50, and it dips after that. Once you get into the fifth, sixth, and seventh round, it's just like get an undrafted free agent. It's hard for these guys to make it. That's what a lot of people don't realize. But when you have a scout that is truly convicted, they're gonna take a side. You don't want guys that are gonna straddle the fence or speak in ambiguous terms. You want guys that are gonna truly take a side. So though that's what make that's what makes scouts really special. Man, it's again that hit rate, Zach, you say the if you're taking quarterback in the top five, it's 50-50. It's so low. And I would say number one, you got to strike at the right time. So you have to make sure that you're getting a quarterback when you're when you're striking and you're putting that quarterback in position to be successful. So your team is built to for him to be successful because if not, if you can't protect him, you don't have a run game, you're always playing from behind. Now he's developing bad habits, he's taking a lot of hits. And so you have to make sure you're putting him in position to be successful. And then number two, and this is just the world we live in right now, it's that we don't give players time to truly develop. I I you look at Drew Brees didn't hit right away. Drew Brees had some rough seasons, and and they're and and yet he had time and it really hit in that I think it was year three or four once they had drafted Phillip Rivers. That's when he took off. But before that, he's rotating with Doug Flutie. They're pulling him out of games that he had a lot of, and and he openly talks about that. So, but he had time to truly develop. Peyton Manning threw a lot of picks his first year. Yeah. And so, like truly giving these players time to develop and putting them in position to be successful, and you see it. Absolutely. Now the guy uh Baker Mayfield, Pam Darnold, Tino Smith, those guys could have been out of the league. They a couple teams later, now they get put in a good situation and a good environment, a good culture with the right, um, the the right supporting cast in the right situation, and they're really good quarterbacks right now. So it it's one of the hard it is, it's the hardest thing, like you said, to evaluate in pro sports, but you got to give them time to truly develop and make sure you're putting them in a in a good situation for them.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Because you you can't win in this league without a quarterback. You you need a quarterback. That's the piece to the puzzle. You need a quarterback. If you don't got a quarterback, it don't matter how much talent you got on the team, it's gonna be hard to win, man. It's gonna be hard to do. Nothing else matters.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Nothing else matters. Because think about it, like, even you can even see, you can feel it, like when you have, even on defense, like it's frustrating for those guys when they keep three and out, turnover, all this, and the offense is just doing nothing. Like those guys, like, obviously, it's not like you're never gonna stop playing hard, but you can feel it suck out. But when you have that guy, and when you know at any that that belief, that inject you talk about a force multiplier, it injects a different belief in in everyone. Like it's just a different situation. Again, I've I was blessed to to uh be in New Orleans through Drew Bru Drew Brees' 15 years there, and you always knew you had a chance to win.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

As long as he was at that quarterback position.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

You always knew you had a chance to win, unless you got Aaron Donald in the middle, winning quick and knocking the hell out of your quarterback. That was a kryptonite. That was a kryptonite, but you always knew you had a chance. And look, if you don't have one, nothing else matters. I don't care how many good players you draft or sign, I don't care what your scheme is, I don't care what it is. If you don't have one, you don't have a chance.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

So this year the draft is they they made a change with the time limit in the first round. Does it matter? Is it gonna make a difference to teams? Is it is there a lot of just wasted time? Obviously, if there's trades and things like that, it speeds things up, but uh does it also kind of crunch the decision making at all, or is that extra, I think it's two less minutes, right? Yep. From 10 to 10. Yeah, how imp how impactful or what?

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Do y'all really need four minutes on the clock before? That's too much time, man.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

First round.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

First ten. Would y'all need 10 minutes? Don't y'all kind of have y'all who y'all gonna pick already and got that board or established?

SPEAKER_03 36:21

Yeah, I think they I I don't know. They kind of wait around, they talk, they they kind of confirm it, but then also, you know, never know if the phone's gonna ring, right? Maybe they want to there, maybe there's a trade opportunity, and and so those things start to happen. If if it starts to get let Mel Kuiper Jr.

SPEAKER_04 36:33

pontificate for 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Listen, I've been in the green room. That 10 minutes seems like it's 17 hours. It's the most miserable 10 minutes ever. Trust me, I'm with you. But what do you think, Terry? Does it matter?

SPEAKER_00 36:44

I remember uh when I was in New Orleans real early, uh Tom Benson used to want us want to turn the peek in late because he just liked the advertising, the TV time. You know, you're talking about the Saints for this whole room. But you do, AD, you do have your stack, right? So you have it stacked and you have it exactly how it's gonna come off. And so it's not like those TV shows where you're actually like it's funny when guys are like watching tape on the clock and all that stuff. That's not real. It's watching tape on the clock.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

If you're watching tape on the clock, that's your last draft.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Right, no doubt. No doubt. You know exactly who you're picking. But to your point, yes, you you you take the time to really see there could be a trade. Maybe you're discussing trading back. If you have, say if you have four players in your stack that are very even players, and you feel good about either one of those players, and then you can move down two or three spots and pick up a fourth-round pick or whatever it is, then that's where the discussion comes in. And you do want to kind of let it go a little bit so you can see if people call. And so, like, that's where the discussion comes in, weighing those things out. But you know, you know who you're gonna take. So, so yes, I have heard somebody said that they felt like there were more pre-draft phone calls, like because it's kind of normal to have conversations with most of the other 31 teams going into the draft to kind of give them your expectation. If you say, hey, look, we're probably gonna be looking to trade out, depending on who's there. Let's just talk about the parameters to go from 10 to 22. What would it be? What would make sense? Sometimes you have those calls, didn't spend a lot of time doing that because you got to be careful because it's like you're you're doing all this, and it may not, hey, look, let's talk on the clock and figure out if we have something. But I did hear someone say that they felt like there was more of those conversations because you're gonna have a tighter window to work in. So, hey, let's work through this right now so we don't waste time on the clock. But it is, it's it's plenty of time.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

Best available versus need is a big conversation people have. Yep. I get it. Everyone's like, no, you always just take the best player available. No way. Because you need like how does the best player available just happen to be the position that you need every time, no matter where you're at? Like I mean, there's no way. Like it doesn't, I don't see how that works. And what what is the whole thing with the best player available? Unless it's some drastic difference or whatever. Yeah, and that's we don't really need this guy, and he's picked, you know, he's third on our board and we're at 22, and he's still on our board. Like, yeah, we're gonna go with best player available, and you know, he's a great player. But it if it how does that I that's just confusing to me.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah, that that's what it comes down to right there, Todd. It's you're taking, you're taking the best, you want to take the best player, and yet it's about not reaching too far down for need. So, but you're gonna have these guys in categories. So, and the way your board is stacked, it's stacked according to that. So, if you have a center that you see is an elite, say an elite center, and you have a defensive end or one of these premium positions that's a player, he's gonna be stacked ahead of that center just naturally because of the position and because of so like you're gonna have those premium positions are gonna be higher. Like you say, a quarterback, a quarterback, if you're just a in the solid grade in the solid category, you're a first round pick where another position could be a third-round pick grade in that category. So you're stacking based off those things. But when you get on the clock, definitely in the early rounds, you're gonna have multiple players in that category to where you can pick the position you need in most cases. What you don't want to do is again, if you have, if you already have a running back, again, we already had Tyler, and Tyler had rushed for over a thousand yards, and we got Bichon, and we believe he's a he's a difference maker, and we may need a guard or whatever it is. And if you have a lesser guard and you got Bijan, then you're taking the best player, you know? And so it's about how it stacks, and and usually you're gonna have a category of players, and at the end of the day, you want to take, you want to take impactful players. You know, you wanna if you're if you're in the if you're in the front yard and you're picking your team when you're little and you're about to go play football, you're gonna pick the biggest, most athletic dudes. Now you need somebody that can throw the football, obviously. So you're gonna pick a quarterback too, but you're gonna take the best athletes. And that's what it comes down to. Who's gonna impact your team the most?

SPEAKER_01 41:20

When y'all picked up um Kirk Cousins, gave him that big contract. Yep. The quarterback y'all picked up was that y'all, y'all whole mindset to get that quarterback the whole time, or was it a guy that just failed to you was like, we gotta take him?

SPEAKER_00 41:32

So that's a great question. And and so, like going all the way through it, AD, so you think about it. We go into this offseason and we gotta take a quarterback, right? Like we gotta, we we're at the point, we feel like we have a run game, we got some tools, we got some guys on defense. You have, okay, now it's time to have a quarterback, because just like you said, if you don't have a quarterback, nothing else matters. Yeah, you gotta have a quarterback. So going to the offseason, that is priority one to get a quarterback. So we're working through the draft, and so at that time we're at pick eight, and this was gonna be a strong quarterback class. Obviously, five quarterbacks went in the first round, be a strong quarterback class, but they can go back to back to back, which you knew right away. You knew Caleb was the top guy. You knew that Jaden Daniels was really the number two guy, and then you're still gathering more information on Drake. He hadn't played quite as much as those other guys are still information to gather, but he's probably the consensus third guy. And then you got you got the other three, you got Mike, you got JJ, and um, and and obviously Denver's quarterback both. So you got these other guys that you just gather information on working through the process. We liked Mike coming out of the season, but there's questions. You got to go through the process. Where's the medical report gonna be once we get off tell in Indy? So you have all these questions, so you don't quite know where you stand. So what we did initially, A D, is we said, man, let's get in this top three. Let's do what we got to do. Because like I said, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what else, we got to get one of these quarterbacks that we feel good about. And so let's try to get, let's try to get up here. So we were working our our tail off to try to trade up. And um early on, you know, when the quarterback trades happen, they happen earlier. They happen in in March, you know, early March, and um, whenever you're trying to trade. So we work through that process. I was a pest at the combine, really working through that, trying to get a trade done. Once we couldn't get a trade done, then we knew, okay, we don't really know if we're gonna get a quarterback at eight that we feel good about because we're still getting something now. Now we got to pivot because you can't just not get one. So we got to pivot. And so now we're gonna go get Kirk Cousins. And so knowing that, okay, we're we're getting Kirk Cousins, and this is gonna be down the road. Kirk's gonna get us through a time period, and down the road we'll get a quarterback. But then, AD, as we continue to go through the process, you get the medical information. You feel good. We do workouts because we're still going through, you don't just stop the process of quarterback.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Still doing your homework. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

We keep gathering all this information. And as we got closer to it, that's when it was determined that, okay, we believe this guy can be a franchise quarterback. We believe that we had high belief in him. And so now as you get, and again, we're getting close to the draft, but now when we know, okay, we can do this, and the mindset is okay, now we're gonna have it handled for right now, and we'll have it handled for the future too. The most important position in pro sports, but you're not gonna if you have that kind of belief and conviction, and then you don't take him, and he goes somewhere else, and then now a few years down the road, he's lighting it up somewhere else, and we passed him up because so that's kind of that's how it came together and why it happened. Because you know, you have this plan, you start off with a blueprint, but there are multiple pivot points in that blueprint. So we had a major pivot point, just kind of figuring it out as we went.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

Yeah, because you have to deal with free agency before the draft. So you had to address it.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

It's really tough. It's really tough, and you try to, in a perfect world, you hit your needs in free agency in a perfect world, and then so the draft you can truly just bring in dynamic players. But again, in that particular situation, there's no way we could have come out that that offseason without a quarterback. So, and even looking back at it, like we didn't get the result that we wanted. We felt good about the process and and the intent because the quarterback position is so critical. We didn't get the result that we wanted or the desired result. But it's funny when you look at it now, like I got a lot of belief in, and I know he's competing for position, Mike is, but man, I put my money on tech nine. Like when that dude goes dark and gets in a rhythm, he can really get after it. So, like, we'll see what happens there. And then Kirk may end up being the perfect bridge for Mendoza in in Vegas. So rooting for both of them. Both of them might end up in really, really good situations. So the intent was right, the process was right, just didn't get the results.

SPEAKER_04 46:03

I want to ask you about a career path to becoming a general manager in the Lee, because a few weeks ago, out of the blue, I get a text from my 21-year-old daughter who says, I want to be a GM. Wow. And I respond, uh, uh, of what? And she says, uh, an NFL team, mark my words. That's awesome. I'm looking into it, and Brandon Bean at Buffalo. He started out as a comms guy in the communications department for the Carolina Panthers. He's now at Buffalo. Omar Khan was a football ops guy for the for the Saints. Howie Roseman was an intern for salary cap for the Eagles. Joe Horitz, the Chargers, he was an accounting major at Auburn. None of these guys, for as far as I could tell, played football back in the day. So for someone who had never played football, or someone like my daughter who wants to become a general manager of the NFL, what do you need to do? First of all, tell her to aim higher.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

Tell her to own a team.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

That's uh that's that's really cool, man. That's awesome. Now, let me ask you a question. What is she doing right now?

SPEAKER_04 46:58

She wants to go to law school. And, you know, she had an internship and she fell in love with the CAP process. Wasn't really interested in representing athletes. Marketing is there. She's learned from Todd. Stay away. Um, but she wants to go to law school and you know, follow some of the, you know, the trailblazers that have done it without playing football. But those are all men in a men, uh male-dominated business. She has reached out to people and made contacts throughout the league that are in NFL front offices that are female. But I I'm not gonna get in her way of her dreams, but I'm like, hey, I gotta GM on the Inner Circle Podcast. Let me pick his brain and see what he would recommend to her or other women out there that could see themselves in a sport that they love.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Yeah, that like I said, that that's really cool. Absolutely. They're gonna be um male GMs in the league. I I would hope sooner rather than later. And and and it's not even close because if you're smart, you're process driven, you have real passion for what you're doing and and leadership, then they're gonna have those opportunities. I was in the car the other day with with one of my daughters, and she said, This is my 10-year-old daughter, and I was listening to uh like a a Cynthia Freeland podcast, and she asked me, she said, Hey, does she work in football? I said, Yeah, she said, she's really smart. She knows what she's talking about. And so like it's just real, like there are definitely gonna be some general managers. I always tell people what's most important is to figure out what you really want to do and what you're passionate about. You know, like for me personally, I was always passionate about the process of evaluating players and getting with the working with the coaches and the staff and figuring out what's the vision, what's the blueprint, how we're gonna be this team, uh, how we're gonna build this championship team. And going through that process of doing that, I was absolutely obsessed with it, obsessed with the hunt. And so that's why I always love what I did. And to always tell people whenever you wanna just make sure you're obsessed with what you're doing, and you become an absolute expert in that. Going to law school makes a lot of sense, depending on what school she ends up at. Look, there's a lot of colleges that are trying to figure out this NIL, this structuring contracts, or trying to figure those things out. And really the way some of the bigger schools are structured is very similar to NFL teams. So obviously, if she can get her foot in the door with an NFL team while she's in law school, she can do that. Like, and that that would make sense. If not, jump in with a college and you can really build. You could be in a situation where you could really build something and be a part of building that. That's what it's all about. Like being a big thing.

SPEAKER_04 49:38

But is there a knock though, Terry, for like, hey, she never, he never played the game, she never played the game. They don't know uh first step, quick hips, rotation. How could they evaluate and build a roster when they don't know what it takes to be the elite of the elites when you're scouting, you're developing because they never played the game. So, what's your advice to somebody who has the passion, has the game.

SPEAKER_03 49:56

Howie Roseman never played the game. He was a cap guy, he was a smart guy, cap guy, and he started studying film. He got with the scouts and they started teaching them how to watch film and he started watching film and then going on, you know, pro day visits and going and doing all that stuff and going to games, and then he got better at it.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Absolutely. Sometimes, Todd, it's actually the other way, and and that's in coaching and in scouting. Again, we're seeing female coaches that never played the game, and then you'll talk to certain players that say that that person really helped them in different areas and whatever it was. And so, like, I think sometimes it can go the other way. Sometimes you can have someone that played the game for a long time or coached the game, and then once they get into the front office, they may not see it for whatever reason, it doesn't translate to them evaluating players and working along with a group. It doesn't always translate. And you can have somebody that didn't play the game, but they are absolute football nerds, they're obsessed about everything, and you can end up trusting that scout more than you trust somebody that played it for a long time. So it it it's a it's a talent, you know. Like sometimes you can have someone that that play, um again, AD, I'm sure you've been around these people that they're really good at playing football, but they can't tell anybody else how they do what they did, and they can't evaluate if another person can do it or not. You know, like it's like a some guys are naturally, they have this natural instinct where they can play, but then anything else regarding it isn't as natural for them. So, and you want to have, you want to make sure that you have people that you want to have differences of opinions and and you want to have make sure, so if you have, if you build your scouting staff or your staff with nothing but former NFL players or nothing but college players, or then you're not gonna get that, you're gonna get groupthink. You want people that can take it from a different perspective.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

So, like the point, you've already had some that that that never played the game that are doing it. And I think you'll continue to have them. It's about being an expert in what you do and then surrounding yourself with the right people. I've heard uh Sean McGay said that I I think right when he was uh kind of getting into getting with the Rams, and he talked about how he's gonna always surround himself with people that are smarter than him, which that's a really smart dude, but he's gonna surround himself with people that are really good at what they do, and you're gonna actually trust them. So it's the same thing with uh with the GM. If if like if she ends up, okay, now I'm a GM, I'm gonna make sure my assistant GM played, or I'm gonna make sure this person's an expert in this, and then you're gonna truly trust and rely on those people.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

And learn and grow.

SPEAKER_04 52:28

Because you learn and grow like that. I got one final question for you, Terry, because I know your time is uh very important. We appreciate you hanging out with us uh today on the Inner Circle Podcast. I want to know how front office general manager Terry Fondo would evaluate and put a grade on an all-district 1999 graduate out of LaGrange High School, a 5'11 senior who went to two-lane at a monster game, season best, eight tackles against Cincinnati. What kind of grade that was I don't know where you went to find that either. That's two-lane safety, 5'11, 210 out of Lake Charles, Louisiana. How would Terry Fontenneau, the GM, grade Terry Fontaine, the two-lane safety?

SPEAKER_00 53:05

So when we would get in certain U D F A. So I'm telling you, and they would like say they flex out a receiver or something, and then I go run out to cover them, and I start seeing everybody doing this and checking, and that's where they're going. So like I was the guy that they try to get isolated in space and went right after it. That's who that's who Terry Fonneau was. He look, I love the game. I love to work at it and all that stuff. But young Terry Fontenaux, I had these NFL dreams, and but I definitely was not going to be a player in the NFL.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Terry, you're stud, man. We we appreciate you coming on. You're a class act, you're awesome when you're the Falcon GM. Got a your track record and history is phenomenal. I know I appreciate our relationship and appreciate you coming on and sharing all this stuff. I we could talk to you for hours. There's so much to talk about, and there's so much that people, the average person just doesn't understand what goes on behind the scenes to get to what we're about to get to this week, which was the NFL draft. So thank you very much for sharing. I appreciate the time.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

I do got one more Randall question, though. 2014, you were in New Orleans. If you remember, what was my scouting? What would y'all say in the scouting report? And where was I at on the board with New Orleans, if you remember?

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Look, you were high on the board, but you weren't high enough because you should have been at the absolute top of the board, like because of what you did. And it was it was kind of one of those things that when you just watch the tape, it's like he's he's unbelievable. But then when you get into everything, you start figuring out all the other stuff and you get into it, and and okay, he's not, he's not with an 85 wingspan and 30, 36-inch arms. You get into that, you kind of drifted down a little bit on most boards. You know, that's just what happened. And it was a big mistake, and you made sure everybody knew right away when you played him. It's like, why the heck didn't we trade him?

SPEAKER_01 54:56

So that means that was probably I was I was second and third round with you guys. No, man.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

You I had to you were still high on the board, okay, but you weren't high enough. You weren't high enough on any boards because of and and I and I wouldn't say that, like just it's it's real. And that's the when you can get that position, because think about it, all the other positions, like if there's a corner, then you can that's elite, you can just throw away from them, right? If you can, if there's a a defensive end that's elite, then you can just chip, give help on that side, and just go away from them, figure it out, move the pocket. You can do different things to adjust, you can always take, but if it's right in the middle, if it is right there, and the way you would you would ruin games, I mean, like if you would see when we're getting ready to play the Rams at the end of the week, the offensive coaches, the offensive line coaches, they were like that, they look like that age 30 years. They look like crap, they hadn't slept, they look terrible when they're getting ready to play AD. And that's just that's just the reality of it. Let's look because it's right there, and it's like, how are we gonna handle it? And I look, I remember Sean Payton saying, I want four hands on him every play. Four hands. And if when you would get a sack or get the quarterback off the spot, he's looking for the the old who whoever it is that was in charge of getting four hands on you, and they got an issue. But four hands on AD every play, and we'll figure it out with everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

I do remember one game. I'm a quick story. I was playing against the Saints. I got a quick win. I think they tried to slide the protection to me or something, and I and I got a good hit on Drew B. Boom. I remember him getting a come on, guys. We double teaming him every play. What the fuck? Why is he still hitting me? Four hands. He got mad at the line, and that's the response like the end of it. There we go. That's lovely.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

When you start the game plan meeting, it could, it could be at the very beginning of it, and there's a lot of stuff to go through. But you start off, I want four hands on 99 every play, and then let's do everything else we got to do.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 57:00

Yeah, Matt told us in a playoff game against the Rams. They Rams, they had a uh it was the only time they went into halftime and said, F this. Our whole game plan for the entire week done. We got to figure something out. We need eight hands on AD, not four.

SPEAKER_00 57:11

Throw it out. And the problem with guys like AD, like when you on the field, he really was like a like he he's this really nice guy, and it's really like but he was an animal. When you see him playing on the field, when you see people come off the field after dealing with him, he he didn't, it was different. It was different.

SPEAKER_03 57:30

Yeah, yeah. He would never take his helmet off and go try to fight anyone. He's not that type of guy.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

You know, a little loony too. To be able to put a helmet on or go run through somebody's face, you gotta be a little crazy. Got a little crazy in your body.

SPEAKER_03 57:41

By the time he'd get to the locker room, he had like 12 missed calls from me by that time.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Like, eh, no. I really seriously, I appreciate you guys having me on. Obviously, high respect uh for every single one of you, all elite in what you do. And um appreciate y'all having me on, man. I'll I'll jump on anytime y'all need me. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Thanks for joining us, man. Appreciate it. Thank you guys.