Talia Carner - Pt. 2

In Part 2 of our interview with Talia Carner, Talia tells us stories of love unexpected and redemptive, the writer’s life and travels that became personal and profound.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome back to How We Love. I am Robin Lane. We are excited to be able to continue our conversation with the beyond extraordinary Talia Karner. If you caught our last episode, you know exactly what I mean. Today, we are diving even deeper into her literary accomplishments and beyond that to explore her private life and the heart behind the stories. Hi, Talia.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Hi, Robin.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

The last we spoke was of your work as a marketing consultant to Fortune 500 companies, as the publisher of Savvy Women, as a committed supporter of global human rights, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But today, let's talk about your novels and first and foremost of your marriage to the late Ronald Carner. How and where did you first meet? And was it love at first sight?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

We met somewhere in early 1977 in Club Med. And don't think it was love at first sight. We got to have just two conversations. One that I remember after midnight outside the disco where both were sitting smoking, because at that time people did that. And the other time was at a picnic, we were both in the water. He liked to tell that it was not the conversation about. Okay, so we discovered that we were neighbors back in Long Island in Suffolk County, but we were both going through a divorce, and my head was not into any any of it. Come on, he was a big, gorgeous, handsome man. Yes, but I you know what? I was actually fascinated by his wife. I hate to say that, I don't think she will ever hear this, but she was, in my mind, an ugly woman who acted beautiful. And I never met anyone like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

You were beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

I'm interested in you and him. So, well, I was interested in how a woman can accomplish that. So back uh back home in Long Island, I was going through my troubles and I finally decided that I needed an attorney. And I Ran was the only one I knew. I didn't know about matrimonial law or anything like that. I was in the country for only three years. My father was an attorney in Israel, but he was like a family doctor, he was doing everything. So here is, I wish Ran were alive to tell you this story because he told it so beautifully. He was driving back from court one day and he had to stop at the public phone because at that time, this is now April of 78. He um, oh February, sorry, February 78, he um called the office and heard that Mrs. So and so called. And his first thought was, is this phone call going to change my life? Oh my goodness. And he had moved out of the house Saturday before. So it was an interesting coincidence of time as our stars lined up. I was at that time trying to get what today we call mediation, but I wasn't successful with the psychologist I was going to. So I at that point I decided I better start talking to a lawyer. And when he called me back, he said, I first of all I couldn't even utter the word of what I was calling about, and finally said, Is this matrimonial? And I said yes. And he said, he said, always when he told about it, he asked the most unprofessional question of his life. Do you want to come to the office or meet for lunch? And there was a 20-second silence that he heard the silence ticking, and finally I said, uh, okay, we can meet for lunch. It was Thursday, and he says, Tomorrow. And I said, No, Monday. Um, so Monday we met at an Italian restaurant in Huntington, Long Island, on Route 110, and uh within an hour and a half that we were sitting there, we were talking about our life together when we are married. What? We had never we had not held hands, there was nothing physical to indicate that, and as a novelist, I tried many times to create a situation, a recreated situation, maybe as an one-act play, in which a dialogue begins like this and ends in an hour and a half later, which is the length of a play, when these two strangers who only talked a bit little in their lives, and um here are talking about our life together when we are married. How did that how did you get saying I've never been able to reconstruct that, and for 20 years he didn't allow me to tell it because it sounded so stupid, it's so irresponsible. And um, we knew it was it had happened, but not exactly how. And that was Monday, and we discovered that on Wednesday I was doing my master's degree at Stony Brook, and he was taking apparently a lawyer's course, actually, um uh something about cadavers, and he was taking both of us on Wednesday at 7 p.m. So we decided to meet for a hamburger before class, and then Saturday I invited him to my home to meet my babies, and he my girls were one and five, and he put the one-year-old on his knees and he said to her, I'm going to be very important in your life. He did not say to the five-year-old who would have understood and be confused, but he repeated that sentence, I'm gonna be very important in your life to my youngest, when he at her wedding ready gave father of the bride talk, and he said, I told you I would be very important in your life, and from that point on we were moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

So that let me go back a bit. So, when you were having that lunch with him, right? When you started talking about your future, what was the chemistry across the table between the two of you?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

I don't remember, other than we I was so comfortable with him. We were just as if we had known each other for a very long time. There was a time in between the ClubMed and this lunch that we uh had been invited to somebody from ClubMed after we had returned, and we drove the four of us to that party. But uh, but other than that, we had not been in a company of each other. So we just I just remembered being so comfortable as if we had known each other, as if this conversation was so natural. And as I'm saying, we never looked back. As the months were going by, we would ask each other, are we at the point of no return in emotionally in this relationship? Are we what at what point did you ask each other that? In in the coming months, and we as we did not expect the number of problems that we had with getting divorced, both of us, we thought it was going to be would be a lot easier than it was. So it took us three years to actually get married. But in the first few months, the problems were on my end, at the end, the problems were on his end. But the those first few months, it was so problematic, and I don't know if I wondered, but I think some people, maybe his mother, said to him, Why do you need this? Why? I mean, just walk away from it, and there was never hesitation, and that's when we kept asking each other. And I remember once I was at a job, and that job was that summer, that was let's say February, so I was probably July. That's only four months later. But the February, by the way, was February 28, so it was, you know, the end. So we have maybe less than four months later. I remember I was at a job and he called me and he said, Are we at a point of no return? Or do you think we're at a point of no return? And I said, Yes. We never looked back. Had you ever when did you first say I love you? Um, interestingly, I was first of all, I was prissy sexually. I was also, I said to him, I'm not going to have sex again without love. So, because that means my the marriage I was leaving was the two children are produced. So he said, I would make sure that you fall in love with me. And he worked, he was his charming self. I mean, he was just extremely charming. And also, he was really getting out of his, going out of his way to spend time with me. What happened was we were living in Suffolk County. I was, I had to take, I took a job to build my my career, my resume in the United States. I took a job in New York City. Two over two-hour train rides, two trains. And in addition, I was finishing my master's degree in Stonybrook. That means going the other way. So when I would get back home at night, I mean at seven, I my then husband would uh hire the living housekeeper to show that he can manage life without me. And that worked for me as I needed to finish my master's degree. I know it's a matter of a few months. So I would then go to Stony Brook, or actually, sometimes Stonybrook, sometimes I did uh from an annex, some high school, they were local high school, the professor was coming to closer to me. But at any rate, I still I was studying. So, in order to see me, one morning I saw Ron's car as I was about to leave the house and take the car, my car, and park it in the train station. I saw him park down the street and he followed me to this train station. He had two coffees, and he said, I will drive you to the city so we can talk. And that's what he started doing. Spending two hours driving me to New York City. Uh, he would let me off in Queens so he didn't have to go in, so I could take only the subway there. And he started doing it a few times a week so we can just talk. So he was really that's a man in love. Putting himself and he said, he said, I'll make sure you'd fall in love with me. And he had his jokes and his songs, and he was really charming anyway, and he continued to be like that until the rest of the rest of his life.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

But what was it, you know, go can you go into some details about what was so extraordinary about him?

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Well, at first it was because, as I'm saying, he was tall and handsome, uh good looking, but also at ease with himself. And then something else happened, uh else happened. Uh before then, when I mentioned, and we talked about it a little bit in my the last episode, I was very ambitious as a young woman. And when I went to a therapist with that first asshole husband, I'm sorry, I'd never called him in his name ever since I divorced him 47 years ago. So when I uh went to a therapist, he said that part of the reasons was that I was acting like a man, that I was ambitious, that I was not getting satisfaction from what a normal woman would get satisfaction being at home. And since I also know knew how to sew, so at that time I sewed, I needed some, I don't know, some upholstery and uh you were too strong. So I sewed it.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Wait, wait, you were too strong for him. Simple as that.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Right, I was too strong for the therapist, right? But he was too strong for the guy you were married to, right? But the therapist was the one who told me I was not normal. Oh my god. I was not normal, and I was not normal. You had a terrible therapist, I have to tell you. I know, I know, I know, I know now, but back to one. One day as we were in a car driving, I was kind of stone faced, I didn't know how to smile, I was afraid to flirt, I was afraid of men. I'm telling you, I was pressy. So he said to me, You know what I like the most about you? And I'm not I'm looking straight ahead, I'm not looking at him. He said, You are like a man, and that sentence stayed with me. It was the first reassurance I got of who I was, and that's what he loved the most about me. It was incredible, yes, that he sensed that. I mean, I was obviously ambitious, I was doing this my first job in New York, I was getting my master's degree, could see that I was driven. Yeah, but in general, that was what he saw in me.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

He liked he appreciated it instead of developing it, he appreciated it.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

For me, those words after I passed at that time, I spent a couple of years thinking that I was not normal, that I don't know what's wrong with me, and how can I become normal? What am I supposed to do? And which is what brought me to be pregnant the second time. I thought that's what I was supposed to do, or be normal. So it's just uh it was an amazing statement. So he asked me what made me fall in love with him. He he appreciated who I was, and he was offering so much of himself. In later years, I mean, just now this past year, when after Rans passed, and I was saying to my daughters how he was the knight in a shining armor and on a horse. He came and he's I mean, now I've seen many divorced women with babies and children, with children, and their struggle. I could I would struggle, but I also would have been able to support my children because I was qualified and I was good at, but not the level that we got once we were together. And when I said it to the girls, they said, no, mommy, he did not give you more than you gave him. You built him, you helped him become his full blow and a kind of uh reach his full potential through you, through your support. And as he became later involved with the Maccabi World Union and Maccabi USA, and he became for 38 years, he he found his calling and he became the president, and he was a leader, an amazing leader. I've seen our videos of him, how he spoke. Never got a training, he just spoke so beautifully, had a beautiful voice and a personality, and so on. So the girl said, You brought him, you built him up. So that's probably the chemistry that we both felt, that he felt that a woman like me would help him look out to the world. Now, also, he already loved to travel. He started with traveling by the time I met him, he had gone on, I don't know, some trips. And here I was. He had gone on an outward bound and various trips. And with me, all of a sudden, I was opening Europe and Israel and in a way that in his world they were not quite in his world that way. Even though he did a Vespa tour in Europe in his youth, it's still my what the girls were saying that I opened his world and I helped him reach his full potential in in life.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

So they would, as they say, you were matchmade in heaven. But let me ask you something. So when did you have your first two children with him? No, I didn't have with him. Oh, you didn't? Oh, you brought oh, so you brought children from your marriage?

SPEAKER_00 21:14

And he said I already had, as I'm saying, I said, I had a five and a one-year-old. Oh, when I invited him over to meet my children a few days after our conversation at the restaurant, when we discussed our life, I invited him to meet my kids. So when did you start writing? Well, but before then, I'd like to say we did not have sex for two months because I I would not fall I would not have sex until I fall in love. And he said, You would fall in love with me. So here we are thoroughly committed within the modern world. Totally is you know, in the meeting my meets my children, is drives me uh every day to work, all of this, and we were not yet intimate until I felt ready. So I frankly find that shocking. He said it was a tough time in his life. Oh my goodness, because in 19 and then I found out that he was an amazing lover, and he uh he had to get the prissy streak out of me, and he did that successfully, and we had a very happy marriage for they were uptight, as we would say, in in time parlance, huh?

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

And so when did you start writing? That didn't come until years later, in uh 19 November in 1993. I was sent by the US Information Agency, USIA, to Russia to teach Russian women entrepreneurial skills shortly after the fall of communism. Um, it sounds great. I did not go by myself. I was in both times I was in with in with groups of other women. Um, but um uh it was quite interesting to say the least. Actually, it was the first one, it was a life-changing event for me because I was so touched by the Russian women and their valor, their ability, they're they're trying to rise above above the forces that shaped their lives, control their lives so much. And then uh I went again. I got a call one day, six months later, from a woman who was running another group, and she said to me, Would you like to go in, I don't know, like in three days again? I said, What? And when do you want an answer? She says, it was quarter five in the afternoon, in the evening, and she said, at five o'clock. I said, Well, you get my answer now. I'm not going. So at dinner, I said to Ron and the girls, the kids, ha ha ha. Guess what? I got this call to go to Russia again, and I had to give an answer within 15 minutes and leave in three days. So Ron said, You had such an amazing experience. Why won't you go again? This is the kind of support he gave me. That's quite astounding. So, and I had I had no, did I have to pay for? I don't remember if I had to pay for my own way or not. One of those times I had to contribute. So nine o'clock in the morning, I called that woman and I said, It's if it's still open, I'm going. And off I went again. This time it was a different group. She was a horrible manager, unlike the first one, which was the American Association of Russian and no, Association of Russian and American Women, something like that. This one, it was like a group of, she put together a group of people, like calling me in last minute. I don't know how she got the others. And uh she wasn't a good manager, but the big issue happened when two hours before we landed in Moscow on October, in October, I think it's the third or something, 1993, the uprising of the right of the Russian parliament against Boris Yeltsin had begun. The reason I'm hesitating in describing it is because it's known as the uprising of the Russian parliament against Boris Yeltsin. In reality, Boris Yeltsin started it by trying to fire his parliament. So they did not want to leave the building, and there were um representatives from around the country, the republics started to stream into the city, and it turns into a civil war. Uh, but he was really to be blamed. But and you were caught in this? Caught up in this? Yes, and that's what happened. So it's a long story. You need to read my novel, uh Hotel Moscow, to get to more of the details of what happened. But they that is what inspired you to write the novel? Yes. So I ended up finding myself three days later on a run from the militia, threatened with jail, and it was a harrowing experience. I was able to call home, and Ron called our congressman who put the State Department on alert. But they were the State Department was only, I'm sorry, their embassy was only a couple of blocks away from where the fighting was happening around the parliament. And they were all hiding in the basement for three days without a change of underwear. So there wasn't really much that they could do. But uh the following day, the fourth day, I um I was on the runs, so but I managed to get to my event. I was not allowed to take my suitcase. I'd packed my suitcase, was not allowed to take it out of the hotel. So somebody came to me and told me that the uprising had been quelled. So I asked them to write me a little note saying American Embassy in Sirelek. And I went outside to the street. They in Musk of the time, there was still not no entrepreneurship, so there was no taxi service, which is a private enterprise. But you would stop a private car, give them some money, which I gave this man $5 bill, hoping that he would take me to where the notes said rather than uh take me elsewhere, knowing that I had a lot more of those five dollar bills on me. And um, the American Embassy whisked me out of the country the next morning. Oh, they put me in Marriott. I never enjoyed, I never loved seeing the name Marriott as I did that night. I can imagine. And uh they sent and they said because we'll never get to all of that. I just want to say that the embassy sent for my suitcase, and of course, they released it to the American embassy. Yeah, so that's uh I kind of came back and began to uh that night at the Marriott I started writing my report to the USIA, and uh uh that was the beginning of my writing career. And your next novel? My next novel is number seven, so uh it's something I'm working on now.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Oh no, I so I'm sorry, you're telling me this is the last one, the one that you wrote in 2000?

SPEAKER_00 29:49

No, no, no, I 1993. Okay, and what came out 1993. Um after I was on a round from the militia in Russia. Right. So I began to write, I began to write my uh began to write fiction to make sense of that those events. I understand. That book did not get published.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

What I'm asking you is after that novel, which was the next book that you wrote?

SPEAKER_00 30:22

No, it I wrote it, but it did not get published. Oh, because it was my learning novel, and I started going for three years or four years of writers' conferences and uh writing classes and so on, like a lot. I replaced my right running around with clients for marketing by by now studying the craft of writing. Right. And I used that that draft as my learning. I kept on updating and fixing it, and this was a lot. That novel was agented but did not get published. I wrote the next one, and what was the next one that got published? Puppet Child. And then the next one was China doll, and the next one was let me ask you something with a lemaiden with a family at home and all the other things you were doing.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Where did you find the time for this?

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Okay, by the time I started to write, my daughters were teenagers. Well, we're still teenagers, I actually, I'm sorry. Um, my youngest said to me, she was home, and our son was in uh college doing his master's degree at CW Post, was back home. That's Ron's son from his first marriage. But we by that time we always say, and until now I say, my son, you know, even though he's not biologically mine, and so is Ron's daughter from his first marriage. But so our son was living with us, he was several years older than my youngest, but probably around five years, six years, something like that. And um, yeah, so I so my daughter was saying to me, you're acting as if I'm already in college. So I at that point, anyone who talked to me, my eyes glazed over, uh, my head was buzzing with with a story. I wrote 16 hours at a stretch.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

I'm trying to understand how you can have a married life, how you can have a home, how you can have a husband, uh, children in the house and write 16 hours a day. It doesn't, it's uh incomprehensible.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

I can't grasp at that point. I had a living housekeeper. I was I never was never a cook. And um Yeah, but you have to eat, you have to say hello to people and you have to sleep. Right. So so I guess I did that. I never slept more than like six hours a night. Uh but um and I take a nap, naps. I guess I took naps then too, but at my desk, meaning just falling asleep at the desk. Um but Rand was extremely supportive. I probably took off time for him. In those early years, he was extremely busy with his, not only his career, his practice, but he was so involved, he was so dedicated to the maccabi games and the work, and he was traveling sometimes, sometimes internationally, that we were both very busy. We both liked it. And that we met in the bedroom, I guess. We met that I know for sure we met at the dinner table every night with the kids. We always kept that. And we had this wonderful housekeeper at that point for a few years, and she she was making everyone, each one of us a different dinner based upon our preferences. So yeah, I didn't have to do that much from in that point from that point of view. I did not have, there were many years that I said to myself, I have no responsibilities other than to be who I want to be and develop in a way that I want to develop. That Ron was running our homes, he was running three homes for us. Always a beach house in the summer, a winter skiing house in winter, and their main residence where we lived. And he would do the shopping. He was home when when I was still working in a city, he was home by far more hours earlier in the afternoon in the afternoon than my arrival at 6:30. So he he was home, he was doing things, and he he took over everything. For example, I remember that when we were going to Vermont several times during the winter, every other weekend, I would take the car the train from New York City up north to Rye, New York. He would come with a station wagon full of children, housekeeper, dog, foods, everything. They would meet me up in Rye and pick me up and take me to Vermont. All I had to do is wake up early enough in the morning to be on a ski slope as early as he wanted, as he was obsessed about. But other than that, he was doing a lot.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

You couldn't have been married to anybody else. Do you know that? Your life would have never turned out this way. Yes. It's quite a remarkable, remarkable man.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Yeah, uh, he loved doing it, and then he never felt put upon with any of it. Only um only after his retirement, as he was aging, he retired, retired from his law practice decades before, but from a cabi, USA. He finished his presidency uh eight years before his passing. And those eight years, once this was gone, his full-time employment, and he continued to be very athletic. He was always an outdoor guy who played golf, tennis, he was a super, super athlete. He biked, he swam. Everybody told me about what a fantastic athlete he had been in his youth, and he still continued. So in the first few years before his decline, he was still uh doing a lot of sports, but there was emptiness, I think, and I was going full blown on my one book tour, publishing another, writing another. Uh the kids were all gone. Uh the grandchildren had been born. Sometimes we had roles in our life, sometimes not, because after all, we had four children. So as Ron said to me as soon as the grandchildren began to be born, that our involvement would be dependent upon the other set of grandparents. And that turned out to be quite true. That sometimes defined our level of involvement.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Let me let me cut you up for a second as I want to go back to what was your last novel, because we're going to be running out of time soon. What was your last novel that you The Boy with a Star Tattoo?

SPEAKER_00 38:27

The Boy with a Star Tattoo was published uh February of 2024. The boy with the star tattoo. Correct. And I just finished two years of book tour, where I had 150 in-person lectures. And actually, this afternoon I had my last Zoom. So that's that book has been doing very well. And what is that book about? It's about a young woman just coming out of the IDF recruited to work in France on a project for the Israeli Navy, and she discovers that her boss has a star tattoo at the bottom of his foot, and she becomes obsessed with finding out how it came about. She knew that he had been born in France and was found by Uthalia, which is the immigration of collect finding Jewish uh Jewish orphans after World War II, so that he was found at the age of four. And he she begins a uh journey of following a trail of breadcrumbs, like clues throughout France to find out what happened. So that's this big story, it's the emotional involvement in this story. But there are background historical stories that I'm not going to go into, it's gonna take too long, but they uh make the frame because any historical novel has to be correct historically. For example, you cannot do a World War II novel and say there was a battle in Canada. Okay, so it has to be historically correct, but the human story can be fictionalized. And that's what I did. I did with The Boy with a Star Tattoo. How do the ideas for a novel come to you? They always find me. Every time I finish a novel, from the very first what does that mean they always find you? Every time I finish a novel, I think my career is over because I don't play with the other ideas. And then out of the blue, and one idea strikes me. It hits me over the head with a club. And I realize that I've been interested in this particular topic for a very long time. Obviously, I've had I have a brain who's interested in a lot of things. So then all of a sudden, I know so much about it. And like my my book, The Third Daughter, that is about sex trafficking. I had been attending lectures about sex trafficking since 1995. I never expected to write a book about it. But when all of a sudden I came across a historical story about a sex trafficking ring in South America, I knew so much about sex trafficking already. So that's how I'm saying is like when an idea. So this one with the boy with the star tattoo was the same thing. We Ron and I were driving in Normandy, France. We passed by a roadside said Cherbourg, and boom, I knew. I knew what happened in Cherbourg. And I had realized I had known it for many years. Now all I had to do is research more everything that had happened ever since. So that's how an idea comes to me. And the same thing, and I'm not going to talk about my book number seven. But no, I don't have the subject until it's uh the the book finds its groove. But it's uh I'm back to a totally social issue, not Jewish, and just um a very important contemporary issue. So I uh turns out I was interested in as it hit me. I was interested in it for a long time before. And all I did, uh I have been doing is researching stuff around it.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

I get it, I understand. And then suddenly it comes into full bloom. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Yeah, so it's only one idea.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

So you're living in France now? Um I'm kind of making France my kind of my home for spring and fall. I went to a French high school in Tel Aviv. I don't know if I told you that. So you flew the language. I was as a youngster, I did the baccalaureat in France, uh French, which is exactly what the French students were taking. But over the decades I didn't use the language, I kind of stopped, and then I began again when my protagonist of uh Jerusalem made and ran off to Paris, and I had to follow. So I spent I have a lot of friends. I belong to organizations that offer tremendous amount of activities. I have my calendar is full of activities every single day by one organization or another. Why does that not surprise me? But the problem with Paris is that it has a very long six-month winter that's very long, very dark, very cold. Days are very short. So I head to Florida. And now and then in summer, at this point, I still everything is fresh as far as since Ron passed. I only it passed last summer. So I spent my last summer in my our home in Bridgehampton. I at this point I'm going back there. And uh and then I come back to Paris. I already rented a place for for the fall. And then I'm open. I will see where life takes me. I want to spend time in Israel. Unfortunately, the war, I I it's it's been tough because my friends don't have room in their shelter for another person. But I will, if November will be quiet, I may be there. November, December, I don't know. I can write anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

And on that uncertain note, we're going to have to stop. I have to tell you, I told you this the last time. I have never met anyone like you. You are you're not one in a million, you're one in a zillion, but you know that, don't you? But Ron was. Ron was.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

He he's the kind of man that and I don't want to say we are off record now. We're off off the recording now?

SPEAKER_01 46:02

No, we're still recording.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Oh, okay. So uh yes, he he was wonderful, but he was not without faults. Thank God. Yeah. Um so he he had his sticks, and oh, he was somewhat the kids said he was OCD. I kind of tend to agree. So there were there was times that he wasn't that easy, but probably he at that point said that I wasn't that easy. So we in over 47 years we had our down times, low times, I would I should say, low times, and they never lasted uh long at all. Because mostly because of him, because he would forget and he would start kissing and hugging me and telling me how much he loved me and how wonderful I was, and he melted me. Uh so uh on that beautiful note, we're going to have to say goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Okay. So much, thank you so much for giving me this time, Tanya.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Thank you so much for having me on your show. Bye.