The Cognitive Dissonance of Healing: Why We Believe in It… But Don’t Claim It

There’s a contradiction most people don’t question:

We believe in healing—
we just don’t believe it’s accessible.

In this episode, we explore the gap between what’s been historically accepted (Jesus healing through touch, words, and presence)… and what’s often dismissed today as “woo.”

This isn’t about proving anything.
It’s about closing the distance between belief and permission.

What We Explore:

The Cognitive Split Around Healing

We trust healing when it feels: sacred, historical, distant

But question it when it becomes: human, embodied, accessible

Healing in Scripture (What’s Actually Referenced)

We break down specific biblical accounts that describe healing as:

Energetic + physical

• Mark 5:25–34 → “power” leaving the body
• Luke 8:43–48

Non-local (distance healing)

• Matthew 8:5–13
• John 4:46–54

Activated through belief

• Luke 17:19
• Mark 10:52
• Matthew 9:29

Transferred through touch

• Luke 4:40
• Mark 6:5

Not exclusive to one person

• Matthew 10:1
• Luke 9:1–2
• John 14:12

The pattern:
Healing wasn’t just physical—it involved belief, presence, and what’s described as power.

Science as the Bridge (Not the Opposition)

We connect these ideas to modern understanding:

• Nervous system regulation → the body heals in safety
• Heart coherence → emotional + physiological alignment
• Human electromagnetic fields → measurable energetic influence

This reframes “healing presence” as:

something embodied and practiced—not mystical or unreachable

Mary Magdalene & Feminine Healing Authority

We explore the overlooked role of Mary Magdalene:

• First witness to the resurrection (John 20:11–18, Mark 16:9)
• Recognized as a close follower (Luke 8:1–3)

And in early texts like the Gospel of Mary:

• She receives direct insight
• Her authority is questioned by male disciples

The deeper thread:

• Masculine-coded healing (authority, command) is trusted
• Feminine-coded healing (intuition, presence, attunement) is dismissed

The Book of Enoch & Expanded Human Capacity

We briefly touch on the Book of Enoch:

• Describes humans interacting with knowledge beyond the physical realm
• Points to a recurring idea:
  humans were once understood as more connected and capable

Astrology in the Bible (Signs, Not Worship)

We explore how the Bible references the sky as meaningful:

• Genesis 1:14 → lights as “signs and seasons”
• Matthew 2:1–2 → the Magi follow a star to find Jesus
• Job 38:31–33 → constellations named (Pleiades, Orion)

And the tension:

• Warnings against worshipping celestial bodies (Deuteronomy 4:19, Isaiah 47:13–14)

Reframe:

The Bible doesn’t deny meaning in the sky—
it warns against giving your power away to it.

 The Real Conversation

This episode isn’t about debating healing.

It’s about asking:

Why does healing feel believable…
but not accessible?

Why do we trust it in sacred texts…
but question it in ourselves?

 Key Takeaways

• Healing has always been described as more than physical
• Belief, presence, and energy are recurring themes—ancient and modern
• What we label as “woo” often mirrors what we already accept in different language

The real barrier isn’t evidence—it’s permission 

*

Connect with Taylor

Connect with Adrienne

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of TNA. You're listening to the TNA podcast. Totally not appropriate. We're your hosts, Taylor Sappington, a cosmic cartographer, medical astrologer, and herbalist decoding the intersection of soul, body, and belief.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

And Adrian Irazari, a psychoalchemist trained in East Asian medicine, vibrational healing, and the sacred science of your nervous system.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

Together we blend ancient tools, clinical wisdom, and unapologetic truth-telling.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

From main events to metaphysics, tarot to tonics, karma to cancel culture, nothing is off-limits and everything is on the table. This space is for the boldly curious, the ones who crave uncomfortable conversations, crave deeper insight, and are done pretending that they don't feel what they feel.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

So turn it up, tune in, and don't say we didn't warn you. Welcome to Satina. Do you ever listen to the Bunny? I'm gonna plug another podcast. Do you know who Bunny XO is? I do not. Jelly Rolls Wife. Are you familiar with that whole thing?

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Oh, I am familiar with the person, like as a famous person, but like I am not familiar with the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

She has a podcast called The Dumb Blonde. Like, talk about Queen of Marketing right there. Yeah. And she has this segment called Astell Confess. And she literally like sings it into the mic, like, Ask Turtle, you know, and I'm like, confess. And she tries to get like the whistle in her teeth. But you've come to learn the intro where you're like, I'm waiting for her to sing her way into this. Talk about unhinged. It would be fun to do something like that. Just people writing in about their most unhinged experiences in life. Yeah. Like I Oh my god, guys, we invite this. Yeah, like I would love to hear like the most unhinged thing a doctor ever said to you, or the most unhinged recommendation you ever received. That would be like really interesting to talk about. That would be awesome. Or even the most unhinged alternative thing that was recommended to you. Oh, kind of like what Ellen did. Did you see that episode of Ellen? I don't think I did. I did recently see a reel though where she was apologizing and then someone stitched in and was basically like, we don't give a fuck what you have to say until you address everything else going on. And I was like, Sister speaks for me. This is the best wheel I've ever seen. Hollywood is dying. And I am so happy to be able to witness it. I'm like, this is great.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

So many things are dying, but that's just what's supposed to be happening right now. No, I say this because she did a segment, it was years ago now, where she was showcasing what she considered some of the most unhinged alternative wellness practices. And I know about it because pelvic steaming was one of them. And I wish I was kidding because the person that was interviewed, it was not framed in a very intelligent way.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

What else is new?

SPEAKER_02 3:23

And I was so disappointed at the end of all of that because I was like, you had this huge opportunity to show people something that could really help them, and you made it look unhinged and crazy and unhealthy and something only cuckoo people do. Like it really, really bothered me. But this actually unhinged things, you know, there's a lot of people who take pleas for help and turn it into Oh, yeah. I was hoping you were gonna go there. Marketing. I reached out. So if you guys haven't seen the maybe we can flag it in the comments below. Pretty viral clip that at this point that's been going around. There is a girl in Cleveland. Yeah. And she essentially put this really heartfelt plea for help out there for being tested for endometriosis because her whole body is in pain. And Taylor shared with me where another doctor clipped. It was so disgusting. It was awful. They clipped her heartfelt, gut-wrenching plea for help because this girl suffers endlessly and has been gaslit to high heaven. She has been to 10 different doctors, no answers. Nobody will run testing. This girl was like, I am willing to go anywhere. I do not care. I cannot live like this. And having been in that level of pain earlier on in my life, I cried through her entire video. I went back to the original video because Taylor had shared with me where a doctor had stitched that video as a fucking plug for a product that they were offering with no help offered to this girl. Just here, look at my shit. And I lost their taste.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

But unfortunately, that is what I think I said to you yesterday. I was like, can we help without videotaping it? Like, does everything have to be content these days? Like, can you give money to the person on the street asking for help without filming it? Can you go do community service without filming it? Can you tend to other people's needs without filming it? Like, it's so disgusting to watch what we've done with the vulnerabilities of people.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Like it's and she really put herself out there to share that her life is so disrupted by the pain that she's in. I used to tell my mom all the time that I wanted to give myself a grapefruit spoon hysterectomy. You know those spoons that have like a teeth on the end of it for those of you that are not my vintage. Not everybody knows what a grapefruit spoon is. And I used to swear, like I would look at my mom and I'm like, you know what? That spoon in the drawer looks real tempting right now because I was in so much pain that I don't think that going at it with a spoon myself would have possibly hurt any more than what I was dealing with. It was debilitating. And so to see this girl ask for help and to have this doctor shamelessly plug their shit instead of in the video go, hey, let me help connect you with somebody that can help you if that's not my specialty, right? Like it was horrible. So I found the original video and I reached out to the girl. I haven't heard from her. I don't know if I will, but like I reached out to her and I was like, girl, I see you. I've been there, I've been gaslit like that. Like I fucking get it. And if I can help you, I would love to. I don't know if this is not a shameless plug. This is one woman who has struggled with the exact same shit reaching out to another woman who is desperate for answers. And if I can help you, I will absolutely do my due diligence to do that. And I really hope she reaches out. But I just thought that was horrific.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

That something would take her suffering. No, like which so many people do these days, right? Like they just ignore until the problem goes away. It's like Peter Atai. Okay, like Peter Atai made zero statements that I've seen. I haven't been back on his account, which I was also so disgusted at the fact that this man who has 1.7 million followers only dropped down to 1.6 per the last time I checked while being named explicitly multiple times in the Epstein files. I'm like, oh, okay, so like this is who we worship these days. They can literally do no wrong. But like ignore the doctor we're talking about was ignoring because I went in the comments, I was like, I cannot be the only one that is like, but did you help her, or are you just trying to mark off of her? Yeah. You know, and like the comments inquiring about whether or not she actually helped. This whole video probably blew up in the way that she didn't anticipate it was going to.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Yes. And like the question that I keep asking is, Did anybody help this girl? Because that's where my brain is at. That's who I am as a person. That's why I became a practitioner. Did anybody help this girl? I'm sure it blew up.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

No, I mean for the physician. Like, I imagine she anticipated this was gonna be great. And then you go to her comment section and you're like actually proud of humanity. You're like, here we are, women sticking up for women in the comment section, calling out how disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

And then there are people that say, No press is bad press, right? Now this doctor's name is cover the flipping phase.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

That's not wrong. We're talking about her on the podcast. There's a reason we haven't used her name. Wink wink. That's how you take the power away. But at the same time, I was like, wow, I wouldn't look at a doctor like that and be like, Yeah, I can't wait to call and schedule an appointment with your clinic. I'd be like, So is all the shit we're gonna talk about also gonna be used as content? Right?

SPEAKER_02 9:13

When have we lost the human part of all of this? A long time ago. It just breaks my heart and it makes me so fucking mad.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

It does. I understand that. And like Adrian and I have talked about, we're not gonna change that. So the only thing we can do is be the alternate voice in the space, going, like, okay, if that's how you're gonna do it, we're gonna do it this way. We could also tell this girl to give it to God. This all needs to stay in the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

I truly believe that there is a spiritual aspect when people just are like, God will provide, God will take care of it. It's like, hold on. God also gave you free will, friend. And are you choosing to exercise it? Or are you just passively putting yourself in the backseat of the bus and hoping that the rest of the world is gonna drive it for you?

SPEAKER_03 10:07

You know, I was sitting on my Steam yesterday where all of my great thoughts come to me, right? And I was like, what happens when God gives it back? You know, like to all my give it to God people, God's like, no, babe, this is your curriculum. I've already given you everything that you need. It is your responsibility to extract what is needed for this situation and then execute based on the extraction of your tools. So this is a really nice segue into what Adrian and I are here to record about today, which is really the cognitive dissonance of healing. That is a very PC way of saying it. But there's this interesting contradiction that many of us don't say out loud. Okay. And that's millions of people believe that Jesus, Yeshua, are there other terms that I'm missing? No, those are the ones I hear the most often. Okay, that Jesus, Yeshua healed people with his hands, with his words, with his presence. But if someone today says they work with energy, it's dismissed as woo. What changed? Human capability, or have we what we've been taught to accept? Like what's changed?

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Oh, we're socialized into what it is that we're to accept. Let me back up. We have in a past episode in season one talked about how the narrative has been created to fit the agenda. Okay. So if you have not listened to that episode, go back and listen to it because that is the foundation of the soapbox I'm about to stand on. So we have been socialized to have certain beliefs, but they have been handed down to us through different kinds of rhetoric throughout time in order to reinforce a set of beliefs that we are expected to hold. Okay, if we go back in time and we look at shamanic healing and we look at other kinds of healing modalities pre-Christian church, there were very socially accepted standards of the interplay between humans and nature and energy and how energy moves and all of these kinds of things. And then if you look at history, there were a lot of people who understood energy that were trying to make it work in the Christian church's narrative. Okay, because they were trying to create a bridge between what the common people, what the lay people, what the community understood, and the propaganda that was being pushed by the Christian church. Okay. This is part of my training as a frequency medicine practitioner, by the way. Okay. This history has been taught, it's been laid out, it is in the history books.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

That can we please just for a moment pause too, because I think I read a book called Word Magic many moons ago. I go back and I reference it a million and one times still to this day. I also read a book called Meet Your Straw Man. Meet Your Straw Man. Okay. Those are two books that I would recommend. They're like very affordable on Amazon, surprisingly. History, his story. We are literally subliminally programmed through language. Sorry, I just wanted to make that like most of history that we learn is largely inaccurate.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Yes. And I love that you said that because this is my master's degree in communication talking. We talked about rhetorical communication theory and execution and all of that kind of stuff. I mean, we even see it in fucking movies and shit. Yeah. Like the position of the camera to make a man look taller than a woman. Subconsciously, it says he is in the power position and she's the sub. Like we, in everything that we look at and digest are programmed and indoctrinated into the saturated, marinated, all these terms totally apply to how we understand the world that we live in. And so there was this huge propaganda machine, the Christian church, the Catholic Church specifically, at the time. Okay, I'm a recovering Catholic, so I can drive that bus, right? So we were told that this thing wasn't right because it was demonized because of the propaganda machine that was coming out of the church. And the church really started to create an about face in terms of how people understood things. But here's the thing the Bible is a construct, right? It is human experience writing a book of their perception of the world as they see it. And then the church decided which fucking books made it into the master volume, which then got revised many moons later by a king who wanted to get divorced from his wife, and this not being able to get divorced thing didn't fit his narrative. Like this is true history, people. Anyone who wants to fight with me in the comments, go in and fight with me because this is all in history, whether you like it or not. This is part of history. So when we look at Jesus as a teacher, as an energy worker, as someone who was married, according to had a long time, and we take that out of context. You can make anything say anything out of context. Yep. Just look at sound grabs we've got on social media.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

And then our YouTube's comments, like, yes. Thanks, Michael. I'm gonna give you a shout out. Appreciate your engagement, buddy. Anytime you want to have, I hope this clip makes it to YouTube and it finds it to him. Would love to have a conversation with you, dude. Pull up a chair and bring your coffee. I'm sure I'd lose a few brain cells. I think this story in context with the scripture from Mary Magdalene makes most sense too. When you look at the story of Jesus or Yeshua, and then you look at the scripture from Mary Magdalene and you overlay them, you're like, oh, this is a complete story of someone's life from two different perspectives, experiencing the same thing and ultimately having the same outcome, just two very different perspectives. But it's not that people don't believe in healing per se, it's that there's this distance that exists between what we believe historically and what we allow personally, right? So we trust when it's sacred and removed, we question it when it's human and accessible, which I find fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Yes, because we all have divinity within us.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Yes, and that is what he preached, literally, and this was really illuminated in the Mary Magdalene scriptures. Yes, like this was very much she did a beautiful job talking about what he was really there to do. It wasn't to have people gather around him, follow his word, do exactly as he said. It was really to empower people to make decisions from the divinity, as you said, that exists within them, right? So if you actually, as Adrian was saying, if you look at the accounts, there are multiple references to healing touch. There are multiple references, you know, healing through words, there are multiple references of even what's described as power leaving the body contained within the final volume. Yes, right. So Mark 5, power leaving him, Matthew eight, distance healing, you know, then there's the quote, your faith has healed you. Yeah. So healing wasn't just physical, it involved belief, it involved presence, it involved something energetic, and that is actually referenced in the Bible multiple times.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

And I think it's interesting. So I want to go back to something that you said, Taylor. Can you tell this topic fires me the fuck up?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Because you were talking about how Mary Magdalene's gospel talked about his humanity. Yeah, it was beautiful. It's beautiful. If you have not read it, please go read it. And Megan Waterson beautifully lays out this gospel as well. So I would recommend checking that out. But if you think about it, what actually made it into the final version of the Bible, or at least the original iteration? It's been revised a bajillion times since then. But what made it in was all men, voices according to men. Oh, we have a lot of testosterone driving the bus. Testosterone is the me-centered hormone, right? And then you have the female estrogen dominant voice saying that he is here with love and preaching love. And it's all about the feeling aspect of his work. And that he was deeply in tune with being a feeling body, which is part of what made him unique and able to teach and share in a different way. And so her voice gets taken out of that because men are not supposed to be feeling beings, they're only supposed to be thinking beings, right? So all of a sudden the Bible becomes his story and not our story.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

Even the Garden of Eden is questionable to me at this point. With what I know via astrology, and I'm sure there are going to be people that roll their eyes 10 times sideways, that's totally fine. Like I have completely reconciled that there are people that, you know, are obviously believers of the Bible, not believers of astrology, and that's fine. This message is not for you, right? But like when we look at the Garden of Eden and an Adam's apple, the Adam's apple is in his throat, not hers. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

And I also think it's interesting she is created from his rib, which is bullshit because women have the babies. Like when I was a kid, I swear to God, I gave my mother gray hair. You say this every time. Because I was like that kid that used to ask all those questions. And my mom, again, recovering Catholic, right? We're sitting in a pew, and my mom is like, shh, because I'm like, why do I have to tell the priest that I was bad? Doesn't God already know?

SPEAKER_03 21:01

I think it's really healthy to question these things. And I think the reason there's so much tension around this is because it is questioning a foundational pillar of somebody's construct, right? And one of the things that has become more so apparent to me the deeper I get into the quantum understanding of things is radical responsibility. I am never going to hand over, I mean, John of God. We can talk about him. There are so many instances where somebody was dealing with something dire, sought out what we don't call a guru. We're going to call a holy man. I don't know what the damn difference is, but that's fine. Sought out a holy man for healing, right? And then left feeling better, but eventually found themselves right back in the same position again. So, like there's this momentary energetic shift because a belief in somebody's capacity to remove something from our physical being. But if you Can't take that with you, nothing's gonna stay. And radical response, you can't give things away that have been given to you. They eventually find their way back, right? And radical responsibility is really the only real sustainable way any of us are gonna find ourselves in the position that we are so desperate to get to. You know, and I think it's really interesting that instead of studying Jesus or Yeshua as a model of what was possible to be found within ourselves. Like, look at what's possible, look at what he was capable of, look at what he did in the face of adversity, right? Look how he remained true and in alignment. We turned it into something to worship.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

Well, and that's where I was like, we're gonna get some spicy comments on this one because there is this misunderstanding. Yeah, I'm gonna call it a misunderstanding in the storyline that he is a deity and he is not, he was a man, and this is honestly one of the big places where like the Jewish traditions and Christian traditions don't see eye to eye because they're still waiting for the Messiah. And Christianity says, Well, he's already come. Yeah. And the thing is, we're essentially looking for an energetic shift to happen as a result of a pattern interrupt. That is what this is. Doesn't matter what you call it, it doesn't matter what label or tradition you follow or provide or whatnot. I have a very dear friend who is Orthodox Jew, and we have these conversations a lot. And she jokingly says to me, Are you sure you weren't Jewish in a past life? And I was like, I don't know. Maybe I was. And it makes sense to me, right? And again, I'm not gonna claim to have the intimacy in the knowledge of her faith tradition that she does, but we do have a lot of these thought-provoking conversations on a regular basis around spirituality and that you don't necessarily have to put a religious label on it. Some people feel more secure in that.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

But that's interesting, and something that I would encourage somebody to click on too. It's like my mentor says to me, double-click that. Like, why is there a necessity you know associated with labeling? Where does that come from?

SPEAKER_02 24:33

I think it comes from the need to feel belonging. Like humans have a need to belong.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

And we I believe they absolutely do. And we have a huge disparity with belonging these days. We have a huge disparity with belonging within our own family constellations. Look how dysfunctional families are. Okay. And then we have an even larger disparity of communal belonging because community doesn't exist in the way that it has for hundreds of years. So, I mean, from that perspective, I understand why this makes sense. This conversation is not about shaming or scolding somebody for the belief that they hold. It's essentially questioning if he could do it, why can't I? Or why can't you? Because we are created from the same cloth.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Yes. And if we want to use the Bible as our foundation, if we were created in his image. So why can't we?

SPEAKER_03 25:25

You know, when we worship instead of study behavior, we create a distance because apparently we think it's only divine if it's not accessible. And I wonder how many people are actually subconsciously afraid of what life could look like if they allowed themselves to access the divinity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

I think that's a radical responsibility, though. The radical responsibility and your ability to choose, right? No matter what faith tradition you follow, if you follow a formalized one. Like I tell people I'm a deeply spiritual person. Absolutely. I do not put a label on it. No, but I'm a deeply spiritual person. I do believe in the divinity within me. And I actually was very bent out of shape. And it's part of why in the early years of my life that I started to move away from the Catholic Church, and much to my family's chagrin. And it's because I was questioning things like this. I did not see myself in that structure. I did not see myself in the ability to serve and show up because my divinity, my connection with the divine was not represented. Yeah. And the gospels that were chosen, I would say that probably, in my opinion, anyway, Matthew is the one that probably is the most emotionally plugged in. Yeah. Out of the four bigs, right? Like John, Luke, Matthew, right? So, like of the four bigs that are the ones that people quote the most often, I would say that Matthew's account is probably the one that is most emotionally in tune. Yep. Out of the dudes. But they're still dudes, right? Like dudes don't like talking about their emotions, right? But Jesus had this way of moving through the world where everyone connected to him and they were magnetized to him. Any of you listening to this, just think about like if you're one of those people that random people walk up to in the freaking grocery store and just start telling you their life. You hold that same frequency. Yeah. That happens to me all the time. Eric is like, oh my God, everybody just walks up and literally like shares their life.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

Let's go out with a little bit more. We don't get anywhere quickly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

And I just hold space for it because if they're seeking me out, they need to be seen. But if you think about what I just articulated, that is what Jesus did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

So how is it that laying of hands is whoa and weird? I mean, if we remove the spiritual language for just a second and we think about like, what was it, the Valley of Death where he and Mary Magdalene visited together? And there was the blind woman who was touched by Jesus, right? And restored her sight. And then there was the young boy that was dealing with boils all over his body. And Mary Magdalene is the one. And Jesus had to coach her through it per the recount. And this was in Magdalene's scriptures, right? Jesus had to coach her through it because the intensity of what she felt through the touching of another human being associated with ancestral lines, mind you, the boy was paying repentance for what had been done prior to him. Think about that for a second. The boy was paying repentance in his physical body for things that have been done in days, years, weeks, months prior to him. Do you think that's not possible for us too? Do you think that you and I as human beings don't carry ancestral lines that we didn't make claim to, but somehow they made it their way into our physical body and we're here to complete, remove, provoke, resolve? Just look at history and everything that's happening right now. Correct. I mean, so like if we remove the spiritual language, we already know that the body heals when it feels safe. What kind of presence did he, she bring, right? We already know that humans impact each other's nervous system. Again, what kind of presence did they bring? The idea of presence having a healing effect is not far-fetched.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

No. And it can be measured. Like if we're gonna use science shit in order to validate what it is that we're saying, look at the autonomic nervous system. Look at how women release more oxytocin when they are with other women. Look at how you go from fight or flight down into the parasympathetic rest and digest when you feel safe. Okay, so all of this shit can get scienced and math the fuck out.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

Or we can talk about fascia and how fascia and cell memory exists, right? And how when we go through a traumatic event or a stressful event, I just wrote a post about it and a subsec about it, right? Like how when we go through something that is extremely jarring to our system, fascia is a communal network that stores emotional memory when the emotional memory is not permitted to be felt all the way through. Cellular memory is no different, right? So when safety is brought to the system, all of that finds a way to disperse. The pressure is relieved.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

I'm gonna ground this in the condition that I see often with women, vaginismus, and how the fascia gets tight. Yep, will not allow a partner to pass. Yep. And then a lot of women who struggle with vaginismus will walk away from jobs that don't serve, yep, relationships, things like that. And then they go, Oh, I can enjoy intimacy again. My muscles aren't so tight anymore. Correct. And it's like, yes, because your body's trying to protect you. And it's saying, I have this memory literally imprinted in the viscera of my system. This does not feel safe. I am being triggered. I cannot allow this thing to happen and then remove what it is that's triggering, and the body all of a sudden goes, Oh, I feel safe. I can do this.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Well, what we might call healing energy today, which I find it fascinating that we refer to it as that, could simply be like a highly regulated, coherent human system. So instead of something being mystical, it becomes embodied and practiced. Right. You know, and then if we want to go back to the Mary Magdalene scriptures, there are also texts, as we've mentioned throughout this podcast, like the Gospel of Mary, that suggests Mary Magdalene herself didn't only recount and capture her experience with Jesus, she referred to him as Yeshua in what I read/slash listened to, but they also captured how she held deep spiritual insight and how her authority was questioned. And if you look at the healing community today, outside of Western medicine, the majority of people that work within the healing community with their hands through frequency medicine, with herbs, even in the astrology community, are largely women. So we're just living the same script she did. Yes. Her authority was questioned, and so is ours, right? Because it doesn't fit into the male or masculine construct of science, which science today is hilarious to me. And I love that people still use it as a fucking argument. Because when we really get done, let's just talk quantum biology. Science doesn't even capture the fact that light is one of the most important components to cellular function. And therefore, we're missing a massive component to understanding human biology, but sure, screamed at data at me all day long.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Well, I mean, they've even seen that there is a vibration that happens when an egg is fertilized. We start from frequency, yet that is woo.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Because the forms of healing that we trust are masculine coded, their authority, their command, their declaration. Yeah, how far has that gotten us, guys? How many of you listening today are chronically unwell? How many of you have been gaslit, completely and utterly dissociated and not in your body? All weight. Yeah. You know, the ones that we dismiss in terms of healing, you know, outside of authority command declaration, which look, if I got into an accident and I had ephemeral artery issue, please take me to the nearest fucking ER. Please tourniquet my leg. Please get me emergency medicine ASAP. I get so sick of making this disclaimer, right? Like emergency medicine is beautiful. I'm so glad that we have it. But the majority of the medical model that all of us exist within is not emergency medicine. It is chronic management of symptoms. Symptoms were never meant to be managed. So we're willing to override, overlook, and undermine intuition, thought, touch, and emotional attunement because they're feminine coded, feminine encoded, right? For authority, command, and declaration. Why? Because current science doesn't capture what we want them to capture. You guys go look up ghostwriting, go look up loopholes, go look up conflict of interest with funding. I need anyone who's listening to this that doesn't understand data to actually go research how the data comes to fruition. The Illusions of Evidence-based medicine is one of the best books you'll ever read. It rips apart widely accepted data associated with drugs that are still sold over the counter via the pharmacy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

It's wild. And I have the privilege of having currently a student who is Western trained who wants to see the world in a broader way. Bravo. And is realizing that there are a lot of limitations to her toolkit and wants to be able to see things in a different way.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

And graduate with a gag order. I can say this because I've held a license. You graduate with a gag order. You think you're going to go do big things. You're going to go do big things within a small box.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Yeah. That's the hard part. It's a big part of the reason why I chose not to become licensed and continue to choose. It's everything you do is overseen.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

Well, it's not to say it isn't here.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Yeah. It's different. It's just different. I mean, I still hold insurances. It's not that I don't. This isn't just I emerged from the woods with sticks and I am going to fix things. Like that is the mentality that a lot of people get when I tell them what it is that I do. And it's like, well, no, I'm just bringing ancient medicine back to the modern world because the modern world is sick and dying.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Yeah, 100%. I mean, there are also ancient texts. You mentioned this yesterday, so I'm going to let you run with this one. But the book of Enoch describes, right, humans interacting with knowledge and realms beyond the physical. Hi, welcome to what I'm doing. It's very real, guys. It's very real. So many people refer to World War III as spiritual, but I don't think most people understand the relevancy and the depth of what they're actually saying. And I think most people would be utterly terrified to be able to understand the legitimacy of what they're actually saying. And spiritual warfare is not just on the internet, let me put it that way. The Schumann resonance, the change in frequency, time shifting, like everybody's feeling this shit they don't know how to name. And everybody feels like shit because they're feeling what they don't know how to name. And we're completely and utterly disconnected from intuition, touch, emotional attunement. Therefore, we're not navigating it all that well because we've abandoned the tools that were provided to us that exist within us in order to optimally navigate these things. So the book of Enoch.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

It was intentionally left out. Just like Mary Magdalene's book was intentionally left out. Oh shit. Because it didn't fit the box that they were trying to create for people to play with it. But the thing is, if you look at one of the things that I have always found fascinating and really makes me hopeful for the collective, is that across time, okay, in when we were living in our little tribal communities, flung all over the globe with no cross-pollination of information, right? Because geographically we were very disparate and all of this, right? In that time frame, there were certain constants that were understood in every culture, in every pocket of the globe. And yet like all these things were understood, like basic needs for love and support, energetic healing, the spiritual realm, that there was always a bigger thing than you, whether that was a pantheon of deities or a single deity, it did not matter. There was God is bigger than me. I don't know how else to put it. These have always been fundamental tenets of being human. Is that we all believe that there is a creation story, that we all believe that there is something bigger than us that has a hand. Call it fate, call it God, call it spirit, the universe, whatever you want to call it. It doesn't matter. Every one of these cultures had different names for the same themes, which means as humans, we fundamentally understand, feeling without touch that we are part of nature, that there are energies, frequencies, whatever it is you want to talk about, bigger than we are that govern this avatar that we have that walks around through the world.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

I mean, we needed a vehicle to get ourselves through this very dense place, and that vehicle is equally as dense as the environment that it lives in. That's why things oftentimes lag. That's why it takes time for symptoms to resolve. Your body energetically and emotionally moves much quicker than it does physically. Sit the fuck down and chill out.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

I was saying, and really, one of the only religious belief systems that does not believe that you come back is Catholic. Yeah, it's Christianity. Because there has always throughout time been this understanding that we're here to learn, we're here to grow as a soul.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

I mean, what's the purpose? If we don't have a purpose, what's the purpose, right? To just exist. I'm sorry, having a hard time with that one.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

It's really like I had a client a few years ago who used to come in. It was like the entire treatment was a theological conversation. And I'm down with that, right? Like I am, oh, bring it, man, because I have done a lot of looking and understanding in this particular area. I was very fascinated in college with Hildegard von Bingen for the same reason. Because through her work with music is how she managed chronic illness. She would compose in such a way that in a vaulted ceiling church, it would create certain overtone intervals intentionally, as like a fuck you to the church, which was, I thought, kind of badass for a woman during that time period. But it has been understood throughout time that frequency music using sound through the grieving process, using instruments to help souls pass Asian cultures who revere their ancestors and the wisdom that is shared intergenerationally. Like Christianity's the only one that doesn't seem to get it.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

If you look at us in comparison to like, where do we see a high density of the population that we're speaking to and with? It's in the Western world, right? But this idea that humans are more connected and capable isn't new. And at a fundamental level, everything is energy. That's just physics, that's science, guys. Right. At a quantum level, observation affects outcome.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Everything is energy. I said that in a room with a mechanical engineer a few years ago, and I got reprimanded. Like the words that snapped out of her mouth, I physically felt the recoil. Like I had been hit. And I was like, but you do science of all people, you should understand this. She left the room, like didn't want to talk to me. And honestly, the friendship kind of dissolved after that. And it was so bizarre. But I remember thinking to myself, like, they are so hung up on the physicality of this physicality can't exist without the energy precursing it.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

Exactly. You and I can't, like, if you we're holographic. When you get down to the smallest particle of what we are, like, we really shouldn't be as dense as we appear, right? When you look at it from the smallest lens and through various different angles, this idea, too, like with this energy component that consciousness or presence plays a role in reality isn't as far off as we've been taught. Also, if you want to see the hidden madness in the message, go watch movies. They tell you everything, right? The Matrix, Star Wars, Star Trek, The Truman Show. They all wally. Okay. Like movies tell everything in plain sight. They tell you. I refer to many of those movies on a regular basis as documentaries.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Well, I mean, we've talked about the Truman show on this show before, but every so often Taylor and I will exchange a voice note and I'll be like, is it a red pill or a blue pill day? Big pill.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

The Matrix. It's blue pill day. It doesn't matter. You can pick one or the other. You're gonna do one the morning, one the evening, you're gonna get them both, you know. So I don't know if like the question really should be is this real? Right? Meaning, are Capacity to do the same type of healing as humans that we saw in the aforementioned figures, Mary Magdalene and Yeshua or Jesus. Maybe the real question is why does it feel uncomfortable to believe that we can access it? Because if healing is accessible, then power is personal.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

And that's scary. It is scary. It's like that Megan Watterson quote about our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our greatest fear is that we're powerful beyond measure. We are. It's one of my favorite quotes because you have to sit with it and really unpack it. But it's very true that the idea that we really are limitless and that we are powerful and that we are not a victim of our circumstances and we really are powerful beyond measure.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

Why wouldn't we just look at it as like I was put in this circumstance to overcome it? I was not put in this circumstance to allow it to overcome me. And look, some circumstances are fucking tragic. I get it. Like I'm not overriding that, you know? But I don't think that most people struggle to believe in healing. I think that most people struggle to believe that they're allowed to access it. And that's the problem we're illuminating here. And there are industries that understand this, that use psychology to market to you to further amplify the belief that you can't do exactly what we're talking about. You're capable of doing. Everything in this world is constructed to keep you oppressed in some way, shape, or form. Because human psychology stands behind all of the effort placed into the systems that have been constructed around oppression.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

I saw a fight going on in a Reiki forum. I'm laughing because we've really lost the plot here, guys. That's what I mean. Like, I saw this fight going on about learning traditions, is essentially what it was, is whether this one is superior over that one. And can you technically attune in this one and versus that one? And everybody's fighting over can I help people with energy?

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Like again, coming back to the later. I wouldn't go to any single one of you. I am so glad you out in yourselves on a public forum. None of you are prepared, ready for, have the reverence for the practice that is Reiki. Thank you for making it so fucking blaringly obvious of who I don't want to go to.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Like, what the f it just surprises me though, right? Because you can learn some of these tools, like these ways of supporting people with energy, but there's still a level of integrity in the execution of it all.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

100%. It's like I say all the time like Tarot and Psychic Reads are all fun and games until you realize you're literally exchanging soul parts. And Paulo Santo. Apollo Sesanto. Was that American enough for you? Apollo. Sorry, guys. I really mean this respectfully. Palo Santo. Sometimes my brain moves faster than my mouth can. And Sage are not enough to clear your space. I'm sorry. Especially when you're working. And also, great, you're reading for me. Who the fuck is picking up the phone? Oh, it's your team? How do I know that? Who are they? Why is my best interest at the forefront of them? Like when you start to understand the construct of how multi-dimensions work. No, babe, I'm good. I got my own cards, right? I know how to grid set at this point. I know how to clear my space before and after in a really potent capacity. I'm only reading for people that I feel comfortable reading for energetically as part of my work. Like I have no interest in picking up pieces of you or parts of you and taking them home with me.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Fuck no. Yeah. Well, and when I work on people, I cut cords at the end of the day. I have to. I will tune my space before I start working on people. I will walk through it afterwards and I will clear it. And like I stopped using sage to clear my house a long time ago. I walk around with forks and like it's just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:20

Okay. Like there is zero reverence and zero understanding of how indigenous practices were actually meant to be constructed around the medicines that these people are consuming. And it's really difficult to bring like an indigenous medicine into the Western world. I'm sorry. As we know, like the Chinese live this, it's not adjunct to the chaos they subject themselves to. They live it. Yes. You know, that's the biggest issue with crossover with a lot of what we do in the eastern modalities, trying to bring it to the West, right? But like the number of people that participate in these ceremonies, myself included, where the guide would use Palo Santo. And like I'm looking back at that now and I'm like, no wonder I was so fucked. I wonder how many things I took home with me or lost in the void that I had to eventually recollect within myself. Because always, including exchanging parts with the person that was guiding me. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I have to say about that. You know, like what that does to you mentally, what that does to you emotionally, what that does to you physically. I know one girl, Morgan. I'm gonna give you a shout out on this podcast, right? One girl that I would trust sitting in ceremony with. And I have no interest in sitting with medicine, probably ever again. I don't want to puke, I don't want to shit myself, I don't want to see things unless I see enough things. But like Palo Santo, which she does much more than, you know, like she understands the gridding, etc. But like to just Palo Santo before you're getting ready to dive into other ethers. What is wrong with us?

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Yeah, I mean, I walk into spaces and I create grids because I don't like how I feel out there. Yeah. But I've gotten to the point where like I can tell, right? It's a level of discernment. So part of the starting this process of being able to unlock these gifts within you is discernment to be able to tell what is yours and what doesn't belong to you, meaning energies in the world around you. And that starts with a simple five-minute put your hands on your heart and check in with your body. Because a lot of people can't even do that. No kidding. So, like just learning what is yours, what is not yours. Yep. And go from there. You know, just think about when you step into a space with somebody who has a really calming presence and you can just feel your body go, oh, this is a safe place to land.

SPEAKER_03 50:49

Or like even being able to sit with your friends, like friends has been like a really big question for me this year, right? We're like, can I just be quiet with this person? Like my ability to comfortably be quiet with somebody tells me a lot. Like, if I can sit in someone's presence and comfortably be quiet, like you're my girl. Like, you know, if we don't have to say something, if there doesn't have to be some sort of shared suffering or drama or constant chit-chat unless it's genuine, like we good. But the minute I feel like anything has to be forced, I'm out by.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Yeah, maybe it's just because of age, but I've just gotten to the point where I'm like, if I have to force this conversation, I've even said this to my husband. I was like, I don't want to go to this thing. And he goes, Can you just go and make an appearance? And I was like, No, because I don't want to have to just force conversation and nicety stuff. Yeah. Like he just gives me this look like, who are you? And it's because I spent so much of my life trying to make everybody else comfortable. And now I'm 42 and my field of fucks is bare. And I'm just like, no, like my energy is my energy. And I have spent way too many years of my life feeling overly touched out. And I like physical touch, but like I'm talking about everybody's energy touching me. Yeah. And I have felt way too many years of my life touched out, and it overstimulates my nervous system. And I'm at the point where I'm like, no, I cannot, I will not. Yeah. And I advocate for that. And it's so refreshing and empowering to do that. And I think, especially as women, there's a lot of us that feel that way. Oh, yeah. Because we feel everything. It's our superpower. And it can be an Achilles heel, depending.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

Especially in a world that is constantly throwing stimuli at you. So, I mean, I think for me, I'm giggling because Mo is here, and I feel like Mo is like my okay, wrap it up. It's 11:30. I need lunch every time, guys. Like she has impeccable timing. She comes in, she sits here, and she stares at me and she'll eventually start whining. I think for me, and obviously I can't speak for you, Adrian, but I feel like we're on the same page. This conversation is not about questioning your faith. It is about questioning your belief around your capability. If the person that you are, I hate this word, worshiping came in human flesh and form and was capable of bringing peace to others, healing to others, calm to others, resolve and regulation to others through their presence, through their touch, through their words. Why are you not also capable of that in your own world and then obviously in your immediate world to those that you want to outside of you? I think all of this is only woo until it's experienced. And experiences in participation and willingness.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

I love that. It's so true. Like we all have these abilities and we all know what it feels like to be in the presence of someone that makes us feel calm, makes us feel seen. We know what it's like to be in the presence of someone where you're like, I don't know what just happened, but God, I feel better. Yeah. We've all had that experience.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

Well, and I would really invite if you're struggling somatically with symptoms that are recurrent, and you've done all of the things, you've done the testing, the protocol, the pharmaceuticals. Maybe it's time to come walk in our world for a little bit. I don't make promises to outcomes, but I promise you something's gonna shift when we sit together. I promise. You know, and then you put somebody like Adrian and I together working on the same body.

SPEAKER_02 54:33

We've seen that. We have. It would be what socially is classified as miraculous. Yep. Because nothing else worked. By the time people find me and they're just like, they'll even entertain the idea of sitting on a fucking stool and steam with JJ. They are already like, if you told me to stand underneath the moon and eat raw chicken bare ass naked, and that would get me pregnant, I would do it. Like, that's the level of desperation when people reach me because they're like, what you do is so unlike anything else I've tried, I'm willing to try anything. And then they get to me and they'll argue a little bit about, well, I've spent thousands of dollars with all these other people. Why are you different? And I'm like, Well, you're just gonna have to see that I'm different. I'm not going to argue with you about, you know what I mean? Like, I am different.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

I know I will give you not everything can be intellectualized, guys. Like, there are many things in this world that cannot be. The number of times that I have struggled to put what I'm learning into words, because it's not something that can be intellectualized from a quantum sense, it has to be experienced. Yes. Like it has to be, right? And once you experience, you then understand why there are no words. I don't know what she did, but she did something, and something shifted. Like that's typically what I hear. I don't know what you did, but it shifted something. Great. Yes, I get that too. Great. Just know that everything that was supposed to be done in the highest good was done. And everything that I was allowed to access, I was able to access. I accessed it, right? And what shifted in this moment in time, what needed to be shifted, got shifted. I'm also not always privy to or allowed access to all of the things going on in your world. We come here with karma. I can't complete that for you. Sorry, babe. You're gonna have to just live that one out. Yep. Right? But come back to me when you feel like the lesson's finally learned and we'll recheck. So that we don't have to constantly repay a debt we've already paid. I've been there, done that. Close that chapter. So much of this is I don't even know what to say. It's just real. Like I'm living in it, I'm steeped in it every day. A lot of people don't fully understand it. And I'm just here to tell you you don't have to take my word for it. I would encourage you to experience it on your own, but it's real. The quantum is real, energy is real, healing through hands is real, you know, energy shifting is real. What you can't see, but you suspect that exists beyond what you're capable of visualizing, it's real. So, and on that note, can't wait to see the comment section on this one. Nice. Like, share, subscribe. Conversations are just gonna continue to get, I'm not even gonna say weirder, more relevant to where the world is going because energy is going to be the predominant medicine that we're stepping into in the years to come. So you might as well get acclimated to it now.

SPEAKER_02 57:27

I also want to thank those of you that have reached out and shared how these episodes land with you and are meaningful to you. And I had someone the other day go, Yes, like this episode was so great. And I shared this one and one other one with a friend of mine, and I was like, ah, that's what I want. Like, we both from the bottom of our heart want this to be a conversation that resonates with people and that helps expand.

SPEAKER_03 57:57

I want to finalize the garden that is your mind too. Like, I know mindless content can be fun for a lot of people, but like you get about an hour preview of what my and Adrian's head looks like most of the time. Busy, deep. Yep, that's it. And you get the same depth when you walk into the world with us, right? So, like depth is shared. And I think these conversations are here to provoke the same type of depth in you and to also give you insight into the fact that there are other people in the world speaking this language. If this is an internal conversation for you, let's find a way to externalize it. The more of us talking about this stuff, the more common it becomes. And obviously, like you're not alone.

SPEAKER_02 58:41

So, and I think that's the part that has been the sentiment amongst the folks that have said things is that thank you for externalizing some of this because these are things that I don't have anyone around me I can talk to about it. And so thank you for that. It fills our cup to know that these kinds of conversations are as rich for you as they are for us.

SPEAKER_03 59:05

You know, my goal obviously in my days of making babies is done. That chapter is close for me. So, like, my goal for the next, I'll be 40 in June. I'm gonna say like 40, 50 years, however long I'm blessed to walk around in this physical body, right? My goal is to become the granny that I never had. Like, I want to become the granny. My kid's not interested, at least not yet. I can't get him into the garden. I can't get him in front of tarot cards. I'm like, come on, this shit is so cool. You know, I think I have a very capable kid energetically. He just hasn't quite grown into understanding what he's capable of yet. But my goal is to become the granny that I never had. So, like, I want to be able to teach my grandbabies if he chooses to have them, like how to pick and forage and put medicine together and tend to the bees and talk to the birds, you know, and like maybe one day you and I, Adrian, can create a granny community. I would love that.

SPEAKER_02 59:59

How fucking fun would that be? I've been thinking that it would just be fun to have a community in general to talk with people, especially those who have said your podcast lights something up within me because I don't have anybody else that I can talk to about this stuff. I feel like there's a lot there.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:16

And yes, you would as we brainstorm on the end of this podcast, maybe we offline can figure out some way to like put together a virtual community where we pick different topics every week to just chat about.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

So I think that would be fun, and I think people are hungry for it. So reach out to us, let us know what you think of that idea.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:33

Because talk about quantum and energy and acutonics and sound and frequency and I'm game and things you can't see that are very real. Yes, aliens, BT phone home, all of your Claire senses. Yeah, I'm down for it. All right, cool. Well, on that note, guys, like, share, subscribe, and until next time, stay well.