From Seat to Street
The leaders of First Baptist Church Chaffee Campus dive deeper into the topics of Pastor Greg's Sunday morning sermon. The goal is to give you the tools necessary to take the message you hear on Sunday and apply it in your everyday lives.
From Seat to Street
Living in Submission (1 Samual 26)
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Join Trey Overton, Mavric Herrera, and Steven Leonard as they reflect on Pastor Greg's Sunday sermon, continuing the Bible recap series. The church started reading the Bible chronologically together, and this sermon continued the series that dives deeper into the readings. During this episode, Trey, Mavric, and Steven shared some insights into their reading and reflected on Greg's sermon, where he talked about the importance of submission to authority. This submission applies to authorities placed over believers today, whether that is a civil authority, work authority, or even the submissiveness believers are called to in marriage. They gave ways this applies to believers today and how that impacts the church. Trey, Mavric, and Steven discussed different points within the reading last week, along with recapping the sermon that Greg provided on the topic. Join in and reflect with us as we discuss the sermon from First Baptist Church in Fort Smith, AR.
Mavric Herrera - mherrera@fsfbc.org
Trey Overton - toverton@fsfbc.org
Psalm 119.11 says that Scripture is a lamp for our feet and a light for our path. That means God gave us His Word to guide and equip us in practical ways as we walk through our everyday lives. Join us now for this episode of From State to Street, as our FBC staff and church members talk about how this week's Sunday morning message comes alive as we walk through the streets and moments of everyday life.
SPEAKER_04Hey everyone, thanks for joining us. My name is Trey Overton, and I'm here with my good friend Maverick Carrera.
SPEAKER_02Carrera. Still there.
SPEAKER_04Yep, it's still there, and it's never going away. Just so you know. So today we have a special guest with us, Mr. Steven Leonard. Say what's up, Steven. Good morning, everyone. So Steven is a longtime member here at First Baptist. Him and his family serve all over the place. His wife serves all over the place. His dad, you know, or father-in-law, sorry, is one of our head deacons. And so they're all over the place. Um he actually teaches um our Connect class out there at Chaffee right now and serves alongside me and Maverick um at the Chaffee campus. And um it's just been a really huge asset, I mean, for us. I mean, we we have really, I don't know what we would do without the Leonards. I mean, it's a rock solid part of what we do out there. So we really appreciate you and and everything that y'all do. Um so I'm gonna go ahead and jump into it. Um I was actually out this last week. Me and my took my kiddo um up to Kansas on a on a hunting trip and and it was a lot of fun. Um, but I did get to go back and um listen and watch the sermon and everything. Maverick did a wonderful job. Um my sister actually sang and she was mad that I missed. Yeah. She was like, It was a bad Sunday to miss. Yeah, she was like, I finally get up there and I get to sing, and you're not there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So I was like, Yeah, well, I've planned that. So I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, me and me and Trey coordinated on all that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly. Um But I did get to go back and watch it. Um, and and Greg, you know, did a did a great job of talking about something that it was, you know, he started on it, and I was like, this is gonna hit a lot of people in a different way. You know? Um, and especially like going through the different, you know, he hit he's using Ephesians um five there, he he hit different forms of submission, right? And so it's all gonna hit somebody a little bit differently. That's whatever they're going through, whatever stage of life they're going through, right? And and and for a lot of us, you know, we're sitting there on one part of the sermon, we're like, yeah, you need to be talking to them, right? And then we're sitting there in another part of a sermon, we're like, ooh, that's me. So um just being able to hit different aspects and different walks of life with that with that passage, you know. It's not as you know, the the sermon did it, but it's the passage that's kind of speaks for itself, right? Yeah. Um, Ephesians 5 just it it speaks for itself and and hits all kinds of, and I think that's Paul's, I mean, that was his intention in that, right? I mean, I that's what I think is being able to just hit every hit every aspect and walk of life there um in Ephesus. Um but so so in saying that he he he used these different areas of life to deal with submission, and that's what we're talking about. Um, what do you think, what is your opinion, like the number one area that people deal with and struggle with when it comes to submission in America today?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's a big one. I think it comes down like I think our idea of submission from a worldly perspective have come has come down to um power, and just like, oh, it's a that means whoever I'm submitted to, yes, they have authority over me, and yes, they do have a kind of power over you, um, but they just see that as I am less than them and they are greater than I. And so for me to submit to somebody, I'm surrendering my my pride, my ego, um, the my value sometimes, you know, it can feel like that at least, but that's from a worldly perspective that like true authority in the kingdom of God uh is whoever is the most submitted almost, you know. It's like God always says that the last will be first in my kingdom. And so um I really think that the the the hardest thing to get around is that idea of like, okay, I'm actually I'm gaining influence and I'm gaining respect and I'm gaining um I'm I'm gaining treasures in the kingdom that I will not see in this time until I get there, you know. And so having that eternal mindset when knowing that God has put these people in my life for me to submit to, and understanding the value that when I'm submitted to somebody, there's something that God has given that person that He wants them to give to me. You know, there's something that I need to learn from this person, even though they may not be perfect, but that's the gospel. That's the gospel of God can use anybody. There's people that he wants to use our lives, and he wants us to be able to be obedient and somebody to submit to us, you know, and so God's gonna move those pieces around. And so if you're not submitting to others though, God's not gonna put someone under you to submit to.
SPEAKER_04Well, and I think sometimes it's it doesn't necessarily have to deal with um what we're learning from that person that we're submitting to. Sometimes it's what what they're gaining from our walk with Christ. You know, it's not necessarily always something that we're supposed to learn out of it.
SPEAKER_01I mean, that's the thing. Regardless of the situation that you're in, that submission is a witness, it's an example of who you are as a believer. And you think about um, you know, what what Paul said in Colossians 3 23, he says, do whatever you do, do it hardly as unto the Lord. And so when you think about being in a position where you're having to submit to authority, maybe just a work situation. Maybe that boss is not, you know, they're not the person that you think they ought to be. Or maybe they're they're truly not, they're just not a great example, but there's still a walking testimony of you submitting to that person for the purpose of whatever your role is or whatever that might be, that is a great, great uh witness for Christ and a great testimony. Uh and as you guys kind of mentioned, others see that. And sometimes those are the situations where you really get a chance to share your faith. Because if you're sub if you're in submission to a leader that maybe is maybe they're not a great leader, and then but someone sees you and they see the example that you're saying, they may ask, Well, why are you doing that? And I can tell you, even in my my you know, work life, I've had situations where someone said, Well, what um what's causing you to do that? And I'm saying, Hey, I'm working as unto the Lord. I'm not, you know, it does so my my submission or my role, you know, the way that I my role plays out or my performance is really based on I'm working as unto the Lord. So that takes a little bit of the pressure off of, okay, I'm gonna look at this leader and say, should I follow this person?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, if you're in a structure and it's not it's something that's not against God's word, maybe you don't 100% agree with it, but there is a you know, there's a point where, hey, I'm in this role, I'm a teammate, I'm gonna do what, you know, do what I'm supposed to do.
SPEAKER_04What do you what do you think causes people to not fall into that submission?
SPEAKER_01Like what is what is the one I mean, I I can't speak for everyone, I can tell you me. It's pride. Pride, yeah. It's pride. We we we all have pride. We we want to uh you know be the uh the kind of it in the conversation. It's all about us and our society pushes that um and it's easy to fall in that trap. And I think just the flesh in general, we worry about ourselves um more than anything else. And so that's another area where I think if we will uh submit to the Lord ultimately, and then when you when you we're talking about submission, that's where it starts. Um how are you ever gonna submit to anyone else if you're not following the Lord and He doesn't have kind of rule over your life? If you start there, then you know I think a lot of these other things uh play out, but you have to fight off pride.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I I was talking to somebody about that today. I was like, you know, you know, we all we've all probably, I know I have and and a lot of people I've talked to have always have all dealt with a similar deal, but we've all gone into a job and been under a supervisor that we thought, you know what, I could work circles around that guy. Right. I could do his job ten times better than what he's doing, you know, and not saying that about right now.
SPEAKER_03So hear me now.
SPEAKER_04I'm not saying that about right now. But we've all been in that position, right? I've I've been in a and I'm like, what am I doing here? I should be doing that guy's job. You know, why am I following his leadership, you know? And and to your point, you know, we we we fall into this thing, and you whether it's pride, whether it's ego, or whether it's just um sometimes just frustration. Like, you know, I should not be where I am. I should be above where I am because look at this guy that I'm following right now, you know, and and so we we we go into these situations where um it's just this it's it can be a struggle to be in submission, to be into submission that somebody's not leading well or whatever, but at the end of the day, um like you made the point, you know, we're we are in submission to God. He's placed us wherever we are. Now our submission points to Christ. Yes, 100%. I mean scripture points to that. He used Ephesians 5, and that that clearly points to that. It points to Christ. So first and foremost, that needs to be understood. But you know, the other thing, you know, as as we submit and as we fall into that, we're teaching our kids to do the same thing, we're teaching our household to do the same same thing, we're we're everybody that's around us follows suit, right? Um and and things work in unity. I mean, Paul, I mean, half of what Paul wrote about in the New Testament and all his letters, what does he talk about? Unity, right? That's a big point that he makes is unity. Well, when you have somebody that doesn't submit in a hierarchy, you know, whether it's corporate ladder or whatever it is, a household, when when somebody falls out of line and does not follow that, then it does it it it does the opposite of creating unity, right? It causes dysfunction.
SPEAKER_01You know, and just from a practical sense, if you if you are trying to um create you know real change in any any organization or any structure where there's submission, being disruptive because you're just not happy doesn't help that. Right. You know, and I think I've learned that just from a practical sense, if you maybe it's a leader that you're you know that you're involved with in whatever kind of organization it might be, uh, and you might you might just be unhappy. And it's the but the point that you have to kind of reckon with is do I just want a voice that I'm unhappy? Or do I really want to somehow generate a real change? And if I do, then I need to keep my house in order. I need to follow what the Lord says, I need to be submissive, and then when that happens and you're obedient in that, things will work out better. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I really like that you pointed out like we're starting with ourselves first. That's right. You know, we're starting with our own lives, we're starting with our own household, we're starting with how what are the ways that I personally in my own personal life can be submissive, you know, because it's like that whole idea of like pointing out the the speck in the other's eye before you're looking at the plank in your own. If we can really, really, really spend time on the plank first. It almost if like if in the perfect world, right, in the in God's kingdom, if everybody just focused on their plank, then ideally we'd all we'd all lose that plank. And like there wouldn't be a dust to point out in each other's eyes because we're all taking care of our own business and stuff. It's not to say you don't encourage others, you don't, you know, call out things that you see um as you're walking with your brothers and sisters in faith. But I think it's very, very important. I really appreciate you pointed out that we're first dealing with our own lives, we're first dealing with our own submission and analyzing ourselves instead of how quickly we are during that, you know, during that discernment to be like, oh yeah, that's this person should be listening to this.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, when he's when he starts going into the marriage, you know, like how many husbands are sitting there. Yeah, you need to you need to listen to this passage right here.
SPEAKER_02That's right. That's right. We love the way to go.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. But but seriously though, I mean, on that point, like I think, I think if you look at marriages today, we see the rise in divorce, you know, percentages coming up, right? And we see this this trend that's been going on, and it's nothing new, right? It's something that's been going on for a long time. Um I I think this this passage right here is a it's a huge piece to what the marriage is missing in households today. And I'm not talking, you know, and everybody listening hear me. I'm not saying that the the piece where wives need to be submissive to the husband. Like that's a piece of it, but that's not the picture. The picture is that that marriage, there's there's one thing that the Bible uses, that the Bible uses as a picture for salvation, and what is it? It's marriage, right? Marriage as used as the picture of salvation, and because we are to be submissive to Christ just as wives are submissive to their husbands, and then husbands need to live, have a sacrificial love, which leads to submission, right? Needs to have a sacrificial love for their wives, just as Christ sacrificed himself for the church, right? And so I think marriages are missing this all over the place. I mean, we we when we think of submissive submission, and and a lot of times we do go to the workplace just because that's where we spend a lot of our time, but I think this is a huge piece that households are missing, right? Uh, what are some practical ways? Let's think this through like what are some practical ways that we as husbands, we got three guys here, and one that's aspiring to be a husband, and we got two husbands. We're gonna coach Maverick's. Yeah, we're gonna coach Mavericks.
SPEAKER_02Give it to me.
SPEAKER_04What are some practical ways that we as husbands can submit in our marriage and have that sacrificial love?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think we we hit on it earlier. Start with your relationship with the Lord and the humility that you should have in just examining your own behavior. What are you doing? What are you bringing to the table? And are you um you know, are you doing the things that that would uh create a situation where your wife feels like she's being led by someone that um is submissive to the Lord and is seeking the Lord. And I think if you're if you're doing that, that's a good place to start. But from a practical sense, um it's you know, it's the basics. I mean, communicate. Communicate. One of the things that I I heard why someone's probably saying amen right now. Yeah. I mean, and I I I I can point the finger at me. I am a I'm not a good communicator. And part of it is because um I don't I don't put enough effort into understanding what it is that's going on with my wife. What what do I need to do to really be supportive? What do I need to do to be sacrificial like you mentioned? And one thing I heard one time, and I think this was at a men's conference, or maybe it was a marriage thing, but it was this idea of a husband continuously seeking his wife. And I don't do that. I I'm putting that out there. I'm I'm teaching Maverick. I don't do that. So I'm not a great example of that, but when maybe we're going through a period that, you know, we're struggling to communicate, we're not on the same page. If I will just step back and say, I'm gonna pursue my wife for understanding, not for an outcome. I just want to know what makes her tick. Right. And I want to learn that, you know, from I've been married that we'll celebrate 30 years. Right. And I'm learning something new every day. Right. And if I if I don't have that mindset, so you know, you're just it's not gonna be what it could be. And I and I think that to me is a big deal as a husband. If you're pursuing your wife and she knows that, even when you mess up, you get a little bit of grace. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, I think I think this, you know, this passage paints a picture of that because you know, uh, just as Christ sacrificed himself and he has that sacrificial love, he did that in pursuing his creation, right? That's right. I mean, from and we we just got done reading through Deuteronomy and and Exodus and all that stuff, right? And what is God doing that whole time? He is pursuing a relationship with his creation, with his people, right? And and and he did the same thing through Christ. You know, Christ came it so that he could continue to pursue us and we can have this open the veil was torn, we have this open relationship, right, with with God, and and and there's no we don't have mediators or anything like we have a he we have a direct connection with the Father, right? And so in saying that, I mean, that's just points to your point, you know, it's like just as Christ is the picture of that, right? The the continual pursuance of us, relationship with us, we need to continue to pursue our wives. And I think that's a practical way, like to continue to seek after our wives. And and and I think um a lot of that has to, I mean, there's so much that because just in that, there's so much that you can really add on to that attack on it. I mean, putting your ego aside, putting um um some putting your feelings aside. I mean, let's let's be real, like how how should God feel about us right now? Let's look at this world right now. How should God feel about his creation right now? Yeah, you know, but the reality is that God puts his feelings aside and and still continues to pursue us, and we have to do that as husbands. And and I think this paints a perfect picture of that. And and there again, you could go dive into a million ways that that applies, but the simple application is that's that's an awesome point, is that we just have to continue to pursue and put all that aside.
SPEAKER_02And how much greater, like you mentioned, like the Lord's putting his feelings aside, and we know that his emotions are perfect, yeah. They are the they are the perfect epitome, epitome, the epitome of great emotion and like just completely, and yet he still puts that aside how much more should we put our broken emotions and skewed thoughts to the side to in pursuit of our persons.
SPEAKER_04Like, you know, my you know, leave and this is just something simple, like but an example, you know, I leave the house and my my wife doesn't pick something up, right? There's something on the floor, and all of a sudden it sets off and it sets off my day, you know, and I that doesn't is that's a dumb example, but I can't think of something off the top of my head. But anyways, yeah, anyways, you know, but she does something simple and it just you know makes me mad, and and all of a sudden I'm I'm in my mood and whatever else, now I'm mad at her, and then I take, you know, and then I'm then it affects how our communication and all of that stuff. When at the end of the day, like I need to put my feelings aside and I need to continue to pursue her and put those things aside and make her the most important thing, just like Christ made us the most important thing.
SPEAKER_01And what you have to learn in that relationship, you're not, you know, there are times when you're in harmony and you're working together as a team and you're learning from each other and even getting corrected by each other, but that doesn't happen unless your relationship is harmonized. Right. And so as a leader, the the priority is how am I how am I building this relationship to the point that we have open communication? We can talk about you know issues that maybe uh we want to have a discussion about and then that not create a big conflict. Right. But if you do that just from the wrong perspective, it never works. Right. It never works. If you think as a leader, my job is to correct everyone and tell them how to do things the right way and all of those things. Yes, maybe, but not not until you have harmony and you have a good, you know, relationship. And and for a husband and wife, I think for for men, for me, I mean, I'm just speaking from my experience, that's where I struggle. You know, I can I I'm as good as anybody at being critical. I mean, I I can see everyone else's issues, but if I go back to Lord, show me what I I need to do here, I'm not in the business of trying to uh change my wife. I just want to know her. Right. I want to know uh who she is, what she's about, what makes her tick. And I can tell you, my wife is interesting.
SPEAKER_03I say that with a smile on my face.
SPEAKER_01If you but the point is that's awesome. Yeah. Because there's so much to learn, and I need to be excited about that. Uh and I think at times we all fail in that, but uh it's easy for me to say that sitting here. My wife if my wife was sitting here and she'd say, Yeah, you're really talking, big, you don't do that that well. But we we all know that that's I just think that's sound advice. And then you just think about what does that lead to? It leads to good communication, it leads to resolving things and not, you know, we in in marriage, you know, studies or in couples classes, we talk about keeping a short list of wrongs. Don't let things go. Don't let things build up. Talk about it. Sometimes it's challenging. You may, you know, you may raise your voice, you may, there's no telling what can happen between, you know, and when you get into those conversations, but it's worth doing it promptly and not waiting, because little things become big things when you wait and you let those things build up. And so that's another just practical deal with it. You know, finding it.
SPEAKER_04There again, you get angry about something. Quickly assess why you're mad. You know, if if at the end of the day you're just mad be you know, because sometimes that happens, like like there again, something was left undirty, or something was left out, or whatever. Why am I mad? Is it something worth like me being mad over, or is it just me and
SPEAKER_01Well that's exactly right. And like you said, in your in your simple example, if it's because something was left on the floor, go pick it up and move on. And again, I think if we set that example as leaders of our homes, the our kids will see that, our wives will see that. And and if nothing else, we're being obedient in that because we're being that sacrificial leader. We're sacrificing an emotion or feeling we have, or maybe even a little bit of extra work because we want to be in that position to where we're a great example for our family.
SPEAKER_04So so what would you say? And because we're we're coming from perspectives of husbands, you know, and potential husbands. And and so like we we're a little bit one-sided, right? Um but what would you say to wives who and this is just something I've ran across and and we've you probably have too, but you know, this passage speaks to wives being submissive to their husbands. It's easier to do, and this is just plain and simple, it's easier for a wife to be submissive to a husband who chases the Lord. It's for for and we've talked about this as you know for who husbands who seek the Lord in everything they do, everything that is in their household is gonna run great, you know, as far as and I'm not saying life's gonna be perfect, but what I'm saying is that um the love is gonna be there, the support's gonna be there, all those things because we're chasing the Lord. What would you say to wives who, you know, this this scripture says that we need to be sub they wives need to be submissive, their husbands, that husbands don't necessarily chase the Lord right now.
SPEAKER_01I th I think you you have to look at that husband, if you're a wife that maybe, maybe that husband's just not, you know, it's just not going great. I I don't know what the situation would be. But if if you're a follower of Christ and you look at that spouse, and I would say this goes either way, but with the backdrop of Christ as to the Lord. And so now you're you're changing your perspective on am I having to submit to someone that is so imperfect that's making so many mistakes? No, I'm being obedient to my Lord and Savior. Right. So now I'm doing what Scripture says, what God would have me to do, um, and then not expecting um a certain outcome. Right. You know, that just leaving it at that, leaving it at I'm gonna be obedient, I'm gonna I'm gonna do what I'm supposed to do, and I'm not gonna expect I'm gonna do that in pure love and care, um, but I'm not gonna expect an outcome. You know, I think that's the challenge that we all have uh in any relationship, but especially in marriage. Yeah. You know, you you you can probably appreciate this, Trey. You know, you you you're trying to kind of build up your bank account, right, with your wife, where you're like, well, I've been really good here the last now what what am I gonna get in return for this? Am I gonna get, you know, do I get a a day to go fishing or do I get whatever? And that is so wrong to think about things that way, but you know, you you do that, but my point is is do it for the sake of being obedient as unto the Lord, and I think that that that gets you off to a good start.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, I think there's gonna be there's a lot of wives out there, and just I've come across them in my life, you know, and and that um either husbands don't follow, don't know Christ, their Lord and Savior. And this is where it's important whenever for those who are still dating to make sure that you're looking for somebody who's equally yoked. And that's why this is important. Because once you marry and you're somebody who follows Christ and your spouse is not, that makes it tough, right? Especially as a wife who who who is supposed to live in you know submission to their husbands. And I mean, husbands and anyways, but it's we we you run across that a lot, and and and and then the question is, well, how do I follow someone who doesn't follow the Lord? I mean, well, hey, you're not gonna do anything, I mean, you're not gonna do anything that's gonna go against scripture, right? So you're gonna make sure that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing in your walk. But I tell people all the time, and this this is whether it deals with marriage or anything in life, we can't expect people who don't know Christ to act like they do.
SPEAKER_03That's right.
SPEAKER_04I mean, we can't expect people who I mean, and and that doesn't matter if it's a spouse, a friend, uh, a coworker, an acquaintance, doesn't matter. We can't expect people who don't know Christ to act like they do. And we would, you know, the ideal situation is that your spouse comes to know Christ and then they become the leader you want them to be. But at the end of the day, you can't be Christ for them. But you can follow Christ. And then we've kind of been talking about that a little bit. We can only focus on your butt and and that's why what you said is is great. We can't expect a certain outcome. That's important because if you expect a certain outcome, you're gonna there's a good chance you're gonna be disappointed.
SPEAKER_01I think going along with that on the outcome side, you also can't time box it.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01You know, uh God's timing is perfect. Uh-huh. And and and walking in faith of his timing and a lot of and a lot of relationship issues, um it just takes more time than we expect. Um but God is working, you know, as a as a believer, we should always have faith that God is working and and he has perfect timing. And so not expecting an outcome, but also not not expecting anything in a certain time frame.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, you know, but like you said, and then and you know, another practical thing is godly counsel and wisdom, yeah. Um connections with people that are maybe a little far farther down the path than you in marriage or whatever it might be. Um that is so valuable. Oh, 100%. That is so valuable. And it's very practical and it seems very obvious, but a lot of times, you know, especially when you're younger, you don't want to go hang out with someone that's 20 years or 10 years older than you. But I would tell you it's a great practice to have some friends that can provide some godly examples and wisdom because chances are they've been through a similar thing in their marriage relationship that you're going through. Um, and and then and they may be able to help. And but if we don't open up that conversation, we never we never get that wisdom.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I agree. I I think that's something that's so underused and undervalued in the church today is um just just um what do you what do you call it, uh peer counseling with with couples, you know, older couples in the church, taking younger couples. Um, I mean, we see it a lot with pastors, pastors do it a lot with, you know, trying to figure out ministry, but we don't do it in the church that often. And I can't for you know, I'm not sure why, but I think that does need to be made more of a regular thing. That's a good point. Um, and I know that like me talking, I've been kind of talking about why being submissive a lot, you know. I just kind of wanted to come from a different perspective. Um, but as husbands, I mean, this this passage in Ephesians 5, it makes it paints the perfect picture of salvation because in there again, he referred to the passage, but Christ humbled himself, came to earth, and and and and died on the cross for us and and sacrificed. And we as husbands are called to do the same. So if you're a husband out there and you're listening right now, every day you've got to pick up your cross. Just like you pick up your cross and follow Christ, you have to pick up your cross and live sacrificially for your wives. Um, and that's your call to do that today.
SPEAKER_01A funny thing that I heard when I first got married that that it stuck with me is uh a person told me they said, marriage is designed to kill you. Yeah, and that's so true because you should die to self. And if you will do that, and that's I I throw that out there because that's just something that I that sticks in my head. Um it's designed to kill you, and that's that's true. Yeah, you should put Christ first in your marriage, and and it and it's you know, self is way down the list. Yeah. Um, and so I like that as just a reminder.
SPEAKER_04I like that. That's pretty good. All right. So um I just something else that Greg talked about on Sunday, but he he was talking about how um the kind of like the hierarchy of the household and kids and and kids being submissive to their parents. I I think it's a pretty big trend today. You know, you see different parenting styles being thrown around, different things, you know, different ways to um empower kids and and all this other stuff and create individuality and all those things. And and uh, but there's so many different parenting styles being thrown out there, and and and I think at the end of the day, a lot of them are giving kids more control of the house. I mean, at the end of the day, that's what a lot of them do. Um what are your thoughts on that? I mean, how do you think how do you think we change that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I I think it goes back to understanding scripture and what God says about it. The Bible tells us to train our kids, and I and I like the word train because that that has a little more uh meat to it and what what we're really called to do. You know, you raising. That's right. You're you're actually trying to teach them and instruct them. And instruction's not always easy because you have to point out things that need to be corrected. And then if those things don't get, you know, disobedience is not pretty either. If someone disobeys, there's there's um you know, there's accountability to that and there's a consequence for that. And you could get into all types of issues around how you discipline your kids or what means and all of that. And I we could create a big long debate, we could talk for hours about that. But I would tell you that it's critical that you have a great relationship with your kids, but there is order in your house, and you're there to train them, it's your responsibility. So if you love them, you're gonna do the things that are hard. I think that's the other thing that we miss. We, you know, you will hear parents say, Well, I love my kids, I just can't do this or that, or I can't keep them from playing in the game this weekend because they got a detention at school, or whatever it might be. But if you're not willing to do that, you have to challenge yourself. How much do I really love them? And how much am I doing to prepare them for life? Yeah. Um, and I I think there's a lot there, um, but it goes back to that responsibility as a parent to train your kids. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04100%, I agree. What are your thoughts on that, Maverick? Yeah, with all of my kids. With all your kids. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Make sure that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_04But but you let's let's, you know, I'm just gonna, you know, call a spade a spade, but you're the youngest in the room. You're the one that's closest to have just been a kid in a household, right? You're only still done with that. Yeah. So what do you from that perspective though, what are your thoughts on it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I feel like my my parents did a great job in in raising me in the church, you know. That was a definitely a blessing and a privilege that um I just got to be raised in a Christian household where that was a a priority and it was focused on, you know. Um too much today, I think I see like like it's it's it's hard and I get the the appeal, but missing church and missing that time with family and your church family for anything other than like anything, pretty much. Yeah, you know, and not making church the priority. Right. You know, and I it was I'm I'm biased because my I was a pastor's kid, and so I didn't really have a choice. So I was there, I was the first one there and the last one to leave for Jeffy Sunday. And so but I just thought it became it became something ingrained in me that like this is important and that I have to sacrifice for this and I have to give up things for this, and I'm not willing to put things ahead of this, you know, because I began to see the value whenever I would I I mean like we tend to see the value of stuff whenever it's been taken away. Yeah, or whenever we miss it, whenever it's it's of it's not a part, um, whenever that rhythm is missed, and especially for like me growing up, rhythm, and I just hear all the time, rhythm for kids is so important. Yeah. Making sure they have a practice and making sure they have something that they can be disciplined in.
SPEAKER_04They have to have structure.
SPEAKER_02And so when we think about our Christian walk and how like everything we do is is grounded on the word and grounded on our relationship with Christ, it's like, well, he explicitly talks about how important the gathering of the church family is and the gathering of the body is. And so we have letters and letters of it. Yeah, for me, that's one of the big things that I see in in this day and age is our kind of eh, I can I can miss, I can not go this week. And I understand things come up, right? We know we live in this day and age where they just things happen, right? And I've missed a few myself. And so, but at least putting in that effort to, you know, like I'm not gonna take a I'm not gonna take a two-week long vacation. Right. I'm gonna take a six-day vacation so that I can be back for church. Or at least if I'm gonna be gone, I'm still gonna go to church somewhere. Yeah. That was something my parents always did. If we were gonna miss Sunday, it's like we went to church still. That's why we went and gathered somewhere.
SPEAKER_04That's a good point. I think I think we all can use an excuse, oh, I'm not going to my church, so I'm not gonna go, but you could go to church somewhere. Yeah. And I think it teaches submission in the house, right? I mean, it it and whenever you make that a priority, it teaches your kids to be submissive to the Lord no matter what stage of life you're in, right? No matter what you're doing. Um, it teaches that submission. You know, I I think we see that all over. It's not just, you know, it's um it's structure of the house. There again, I talked about different parenting style where you know these kids, you know, kids are more empowered or whatever else, and and it just causes chaos and they want to be individual, uh, you know, we want to be all be individuals and all want to be creative. And this is just something kind of in this newer generation. Uh when at the end of the day, I mean, we as parents, it is our job. And you made this point, you know, it's our job to teach this and and raise them and train them. You know, training, you know, we especially we're talking, you know, in the sports world, training is not just show up and all of a sudden we're good, right? Training involves getting after it physically every day, putting your body through um, you know, hard trials, uh, whether it's width and lifting weights or or running, endurance and all those things. It's it's doing all those things. It's you know, we're we're going through baseball right now. It's getting my kid out there and getting him the muscle memory to swing the batwell. Well, you know, how does that happen? Well, we do it over and over and over again until his swing is perfect, right? Well, we have to do the same thing in training our kids. And so that's a great point, Stephen. Like, as we train our kids, we're creating muscle memory that this is a standard. Yeah. Our standard is that is that Christ comes first in everything we do. Our standard is as husbands, we are we we are sacrificing ourselves for our wives every day. Our standard is that our church body comes first, you know, in and whether it, you know, before any other thing in life and this on this physical earth, our church body. And so, you know, all of those things that becomes the standard. And as that becomes the standard, you know, it's not always easy. I I run through, I think my biggest struggle as a parent is that I feel like sometimes I'm too hard on my kid, right? Sometimes I feel like um, you know, there again, I just went on this hunting trip with my kid. And and we uh we went to Kansas and it was it was not an easy thing. I mean, we're we we didn't have bathrooms. I mean, it was we were, you know, primitive camping, it was, you know, in a tent, like it was and we did this for five days, right? And and we're walking miles every day. And you know, my 10-year-old, he stuck with it. He did great, right? But um he didn't always want to. And so, like, when when he was getting tired and or or he was not doing something that I was telling him to, and despite all of this, I I'm you know, getting on to him, like, dude, we gotta go do this, we gotta, you know, and and and when as I'm doing it, I'm like, man, maybe I'm being too hard on him. You know, maybe you know, this is supposed to be fun for him, and he's obviously not having a good time. We need to just take a step back, right? And and my first instinct is to to tone it back, right? And this is just a you know, small example. We do it, you know, at our house, like, you know, being strict on a kid to keep his room clean. Well, if I'm on him all the time and I'm yelling on him, maybe I need to tone it back and he's not enjoying life as much. And it's like, no, this kid needs to learn to be submissive. He needs to be learned to be submissive to his parents, he needs to learn to be submissive to what we're doing because not you know, this is a hunting trip, but he's gonna go through things in life that are gonna be tough, and he needs to be able to learn to push through them. He needs to learn to be able to follow the through things and finish things, and and this is all a piece, and even though this is supposed to be something that's fun, it also is a way for you know you to train your kids. And every and this is me, I'm using a hunting trip as an example. This could be anything, it could be a vacation. You could be on vacation and just doing something simple, but teach your kids to finish things. Like we want our tendency, and this is just me saying my tendency is a step back and say, I'm being too harsh, like I need to just cool it a little bit. But and and and maybe sometimes that's the case, but we need to um understand that it's important to to make sure our kids are are finishing those things, and and it's it's easy to let kids control the house. Yeah. We see it with you know, sports are a big thing right now, you know, you know, and and and it's they're not making it any easier. And it's not us as parents, it's not the kids, it's the it's the team, you know, like it's the you know, whatever team they're on is is setting these their their team standard is not our standard. And so, and that's the tough part.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you know, an easy thing for that in the in the household, and especially with kids as they get um to be, you know, kind of grade school age kids, is just nailing down your priorities. You know, and so that you create alignment with your kids on what's what are our priorities, you know, and for us, I mean, like for me as an adult, it's faith, family, work, and kind of everything else after that. Yeah, and so if your kids, you know, it could be faith, family, school, everything else. And once you get alignment on those things, then what you're saying about some accountability and consistency becomes a lot easier. Right. Because there's understanding of okay, here's what dad expects. This is the standard. He knows that uh or the the child knows that they expect me to do this the right way. And if I don't, I know that there's gonna be a conversation or a consequence that comes with that. Um, you talk about being hard on your kids. I've raised three boys, and I I can tell you I'm the number one offender of being too hard on people. Um and I do think there are times as parents, and I've been there, where you need to go ask for forgiveness because you went too far. I've done it. Yep. And and and I, you know, and I do think that changes as as a child grows. When they're very little, I don't think you're, you know, most are not gonna overdo it and you need to correct them. When they get older and they're they're they have the ability to really think through and reason through things, sometimes those conversations end up with them saying, Yeah, I shouldn't have done that, dad. And because you came to them and said, Hey, I overreacted. Yeah. And here's why I overreacted, because I got emotionally connected. And so there's just this whole kind of richness to what they're learning. And they're kind of learning from your maybe bad example at times, but there is a learning there, and I think if you'll take those opportunities, you build a relationship with your kids. You know, one of the things I love about uh my relationship with my two oldest sons is that we talk a lot, and when they have something going on, my middle one's married, and he'll call me and say, Hey, what do you think about this? And that means so much to me. And there were times when I felt like maybe I needed to apologize because I may be getting close to maybe breaking that relationship to the point where he may want to rebel to the point, like, hey, I'm not gonna ask dad. But so I think that's there's a lot going on. Raising kids is hard. Uh the world puts a lot of pressure on um, like you said, sports and achievement of things. And I think keeping all of that in perspective is a challenge as a dad. Uh you want your kid to be the star athlete or the whatever, I mean, whatever it is. He may it may be hunting, it may be fishing, it may be, you know, anything, but you want them to be the best at it, whatever that category is. And uh you need to keep that in perspective. And I struggle with that at times, but a lot of times a healthy thing is to step back and say, what's this gonna mean to them when they're 25? That's a good point. What are we doing with this? Yeah, where's this going? What's the goal? Yeah, where's this going?
SPEAKER_04So yeah, and I think I think that we can all kind of we can bring it all back and say, you know, as parents, like I said, there's a there's they're coming out with all these different parent styles and doing this and doing that, and you know, whatever you can say, whatever it's doing to the household. But at the end of the day, if your goals behind being a parent is creating a standard that Christ is first in everything that you're doing, creating a standard that church is important, being a part of the body of Christ is important, creating a standard that sharing the love of Christ is important, and living out your relationship with Christ is important. That being the standard and everything you do, everything else will take care of itself.
SPEAKER_02That's right.
SPEAKER_04Everything else will take care of itself, but creating that standard is important. Whatever parenting style you want to do, and and if you're going to and and I and and we're coming to submission, you know, the kids are gonna learn to submit if they're in a relationship with Christ. It's gonna it's gonna take care of itself because they're gonna submit like Christ. So we're running out of time. I I do wanna I do want to ask one more question um before we run out of time, but you know still. Steven, you know, you being a leader, um, obviously running a business and and having to be over people, you kind of you have experience there. As a leader, what does it mean for you as a leader to live in submission? And how does that change how you lead?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think for me, leadership, I I almost instantly think of stewardship and I think about, you know, if you're in a position of leadership, God has put you there for a reason. Um and if you get caught up and think, oh, I've achieved this or I've made it to this point, your perspective is wrong, you know, and we have to know where um that leadership responsibility came from. It came from the Lord. And our role as a steward of that and doing that in a way that glorifies God, to me, that keeps me grounded in what I'm supposed to be as a leader. Um I could talk about servant leadership and um you know putting the team first and all those things, and and those are all true, but really um one of the things we talk about in our company is our purpose and our just the purpose of the company, and we we spend a lot of time with our leaders on this, is to glorify God by being faithful stewards of everything entrusted to us. And when you think about it that way, you you're you're giving God the credit for whatever it is that you have that you're leading. He gave that to you. Yeah, um, and so you're taking the me factor out of it, uh, and then when you say, I'm gonna be a good steward of that, to the point that it glorifies God, that if that doesn't energize you to do the work that it takes to be the right kind of leader, um I don't know what does. And so to me, it's a stewardship thing, and I I'll be honest, I've you know, like anyone, I mean, I've been in a lot of different roles, and I've been in a corporate environment, a large company, and you can get caught up in the uh almost competitiveness of trying to move up in your career and that type of thing. Um and that that can really get you distracted in a way that's not healthy. Yeah. Um, but for me, if I kind of anchor back to hey, I'm supposed to be a good steward of this, what am I doing to glorify God? Uh, and what example am I setting? That to me is is how you win as a leader. Um you know, the the there's a lot of practical things, and I've had a lot of practical training on, you know, being competent, being consistent, uh, having the right character. But again, all of those things come into focus when you start with, I'm here to be a good steward of this, and I'm I'm gonna glorify God and whatever it is that I'm doing uh as a leader, I think that makes a big difference. The other thing, you know, that I would I would always tell leaders, you know, I've just I've had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with people that move into leadership roles, and the first thing I will tell tell them is you have to care about people. You know, and in the workplace, love is kind of a weird word to say, but if you don't love people, you can't lead. Right. Yeah. Because you have to have a lot like what we've been talking about for the last 40 minutes, you have to have sacrificial love because you're you're never gonna make everyone happy as a leader. People are gonna say things that hurt your feelings, and you have to be above all of that, and the only way you can do that is through Christ in you. You have to get rid of your flesh because if not, then you're reacting to everything, exactly and you can't lead.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01Um, so I don't know. I kind of rambled a lot there, but there's a lot to be said for just saying, I've been put in a position to steward something and what that means, and just take it from there, and I think use that as a backdrop for decisions and and planning and whatever it is, and to me that goes a long way.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I think I mean we can we can when when people ask me about leadership, and and of course you can go and like you said, you can go into servant leadership and go. There's there's a ton of, and and I encourage you if you if you're somebody that's been put in a leadership role to go read. There's a lot of books out there that talk about servant leadership, and especially when um looking at Christ. But I encourage you just to go read the gospels. Watch and observe, read how Christ led. If you if you go through and you you actually you know observe how Christ led his disciples and everything that he did, um, he gives the perfect picture of leadership and everything he did. He put he put the disciples first, their walks first. He didn't just give them, hand them every little thing that they wanted. No. He he he put their walks within, you know, their relationship first, he put their their their them themselves, everything that they are first, right? And so as a servant leader, even to the point of laying his life down there, you know, um, there at the end. And so, like, if if you take and observe Christ through the gospels, go read the gospels. And then if you don't have a perfect picture of it, then go read it again. Go read it again. And I encourage you, go read the gospels. If you're somebody that's been placed in a leadership role, go read the gospels, observe Christ, how he led, and that's a perfect picture. And and what you said, Stephen, it really just kind of attests to that. Like, you know, Christ um was a good steward of what everything that he, you know, when when he was placed, when every opportunity that he had, whether it was, you know, somebody that was you know lame and needed healed or or whatever, every opportunity that he had, it put the kingdom first. He was kingdom-minded in everything he did. And uh if you're a leader and you do that, then it's going everything will take care of itself. And and people will, you know, and he he had a obviously had a heart, and it was his people. That's what he was here for, his people. And if you lead with that mentality, you cannot go wrong. And so I encourage you, if you're somebody that's that's taking on a leadership role, um, go do that. All right, so we're out of time. I appreciate everybody for listening. If you have any questions, if you if you if you have any questions, need advice, have going through things, our emails once again will be in the bio. Uh feel free to reach out. Um, and uh um if you don't have a church home, um I encourage you go either downtown or Chaffee, come see us. Um we have an awesome Sunday school class taught by Steven out there at Chaffee. And then that happens after service. Um and if you want to come and take part of that, um, we can talk about some awesome things. So, anyways, we uh we once again thank you for listening. We are out.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for joining us for this week's From Seat to Street Conversation. This podcast is the Ministry of First Baptist Church Fort Smith. As a reminder, you can always listen to each of the messages we discussed here on our chapter and first sermon podcast each week. Thank you for listening.