Wisdom Teller Podcast
People are strange when you're a stranger. In this podcast we take you on a journey through other people's lives, telling their stories and sharing their wisdom. We hope, through this podcast, to increase our understanding and compassion for each other. In the end we are all just walking each other home.
Wisdom Teller Podcast
The Leila Interview: More Than Just a Spleen
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Join us for this episode where Danielle talks to Wisdom Teller founder Leila about her story, the importance of connecting, the difference between being your best self and flourishing, the joy of quitting medical school, giving up your seat on the metro, Bad Bad hats, The Alchemist, and just taking a right.
Yay, recording in progress. How are you doing? Good. Hi, how are you? I'm doing great. I'm so excited because it's Wisdom Teller Day. And I can't wait to talk to you. Because we had made the decision that we wanted to start the interviews. And so, of course, I said, well, let's interview you first. And you graciously agreed to that. And so we have questions for you.
SPEAKER_00I am ready. And before you ask the questions, was there something you wanted to do?
SPEAKER_01Yes, I would like to start a tradition, which is what we're going to call for now ad hoc addendums and apologies, where we spend just like 120 seconds at the most naming the things from the previous episode that we want to address or close out or apologize for or addend. So for episode two, we would like to apologize to the bees, especially the ones that are forced into labor to make honey. We're going to address that more in our bees and honey episode. And to honey for blaming you for being fake on diner tables when we were really thinking about maple syrup. I felt bad about that because I was saying it was honey and it wasn't. But there is fake honey. There is fake honey. Yes, good point. Absolutely fake honey. I just it took all the blame on the episode, and maple syrup is definitely fake maple syrup, is definitely to blame. And a side note, while we're still on honey, we want to add to the discussion about people who tend apiaries or beehives. Yes. I looked it up and they are really known as beekeepers, but also apiarists. Yes, that's what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah, you were absolutely right. And then also apiculturists. Oh, I don't know about that one. Yeah, I didn't either. So I just wanted to let you know about that one because you're spot on. And then we want to ad hoc clarify that having dedicated our entire careers to public health, we really do strongly support any effort to make America healthy as long as it's evidence-based and peer-reviewed or harmless, and that it's not just based on something making the rounds on social media, or that your cousin tried and seemed to work and didn't kill them. And so now you're letting everybody know or kill them yet. Um, so that was really important. And then, oh, this is new. I want to talk more about that, you know, evidence-based on an episode on the bullshit asymmetry principle. Have you heard? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00No, I haven't, but I can't wait to talk about that and critical thinking.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And then finally, an addendum on our Gen X discussion. I want to say that I recognize that being a feral child of Generation X, that roaming the mean streets of Pine Creek Avenue from dawn to dusk was a very privileged position, especially when I knew that I could return home from my exploring to a steady supply of bacteen, splinter tweezers, the aromas of delicious Italian food, and to love, all of which I had plenty of, even though I was feral. So yay!
SPEAKER_00Yay, we love your mom. Yay!
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Okay, so now with that behind us, we thought we should have our Wisdom Teller podcast on you for this one. So it sounds like you're still up for it then. Yep. Okay, so I have some questions for you. The first one is something we talked a little bit about the last two episodes, but I want to hear from you again. What do you think we get from listening to other people's stories?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that we feel less alone. I don't know if you read the former Surgeon General's book about loneliness. I think it was called Together. And this pandemic of loneliness that's that's happened since I don't know when. I mean, you could hypothesize when, but basically a pandemic of loneliness or epidemic of loneliness. And so I think it helps us feel less lonely. It helps us maybe get validation or feel, you know, it's it normalizes things, like, oh, I'm not the only one. Some great podcast normalizers are people like Brene Brown, you know, who who call things out and make it explicit feelings and things like that. Mel Robbins, that's another one. So maybe one day they'll be on our podcast. That would be so exciting. Oh my god. This is an invitation. I hope that helps. So I think it it connects us and it helps us understand things that we might not understand. Maybe, okay, this is maybe not a good example, but I I listened to a book called Sociopath, fascinating book by a psychologist who is a sociopath. And I felt some compassion towards her situation and a lack of feelings. I mean, I'm not promoting, you know, sociopathy, you know, per se, but I'm just saying that when she explained her experience, she had enough awareness that it made me pause and it made me feel a lot of compassion for her journey. So it makes you, I think, reflect and think of things in a way you had not thought of before, perhaps.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful. So looking at things in a different way with fresh eyes, maybe because they're coming directly from the person and you're getting to hear that instead of maybe just anecdotes or third parties or associated with some kind of news story that judged it to be good or bad or placed some value on it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess the next question that I want to hear is what's your story? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00So my story, you know, it it is an evolving story. Um, I I hope it has a happy ending. My God. I don't know if there is no question. I love a happy ending. Um, but this reminds the question itself reminds me of a time in the ninth grade where my teacher, if you're listening, Mr. Fenlin, I remember this. I hope you do too. He wanted us to write a poem about us.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And so my Do you still have it? No, I don't still have it, but I remember the beginning. And because I love science, it said amino acids, fats, protein, lung, heart, liver, and a spleen. So I was describing myself anatomically, and that was not what he meant. And I sort of got in trouble. Yes, yes. But I thought it was very clever.
SPEAKER_01Oh, wow, that's super clever. And isn't that interesting that that's what you gravitated towards? Because oftentimes the psychology of it says that whatever we say first is something that we identify strongly with. So apparently you were identifying strongly with your spleen and your living.
SPEAKER_00Um, but so my story, I don't know how to sum it up quickly, but I'll just give a couple of highlights. I feel like my story is one of striving to be, this is gonna sound so generic, but striving to be my best self. I remember being in college and hearing about actualization and being like, oh my God, I I want that, you know, I want to actualize. So I think I've been striving from childhood to learn about myself and the world and others and how to improve myself, the world, and others. And I also think my story is one of a connector. I think I'm here in the world to connect people and to um, you know, hopefully make people's lives a little better. So I feel like that's my story. You know, there are other components like what have I done in my career and you know, what my family is like and what my hobbies are. You know, there's all kinds of aspects to my story, but I would say that is the core of my story here on the planet at this time.
SPEAKER_01That's fantastic. Yes, because people are so multifaceted and complex. And so, of course, in two minutes, we can't expect to get your entire story, but maybe we'll work on it over time and get pieces here and learn from you here and there. But I have a question, a follow-up question for you on that. When you talk about being striving to be your best self and trying to improve, yeah. Do you think being your best self is the same as flourishing in this life?
SPEAKER_00Oh wow, that's a wow, that's a great question. I do think it's the same as flourishing, but I also think there's a component of, you know, like Victor Frankel wrote Man's Search for Meaning, you know, and kind of talked about when the circumstances are dire, when you're suffering in life, when you are in a situation beyond your control, how can you still be your best self? So you may not be flourishing in that situation, but you are still finding meaning in that. So I think they go together, but I don't think they're always paired, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01It does make sense because that's one of the things I was going to ask is does that mean that when we are at our best, that we are necessarily flourishing? When we're doing something that we're great at or we're even the best at, does that necessarily mean we're flourishing? And I don't necessarily think that's true. I think that kind of goes along with that, the saying that I love to use is just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. Oh yes. Oh my God, yes. Because how many times have we been in those situations where I'm really good at this and I can do it, but oh my goodness, I do not think I should be doing it. Right. I have, yes, I I can relate to this. And I think that often happens in the workplace too. And I think oftentimes in the workplace, just because we can do something, everybody says we should. And so we end up taking on many things just because we can do it. And one day we look around and we say, Oh my gosh, I can do all these things, and I'm really good at it, and people rely on me, but I don't know if I should be doing it. And it's yeah, exactly. So, so with that as a segue, I have a question for you about you mentioned career and maybe talking about that on a different episode, but I would like to know what you do for work or maybe what you do for work, but also what you wish you did for work.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Oh my God, this is such a good question. So I would like to tell you what I do for work by telling you how I came to do this for work because it's not when people ask me what I do, I don't want to just give them this answer because it's very misleading. So, what I have done, let's start there. So I have a background in public health and library science, as you know. And so the very first 15 years of my career was public health program management and program development, working in disaster preparedness, tobacco control, working at foundations, doing evaluation and policy. And I love all of that so much. And I actually want to start scooting back into that, into that space. But right around 2016, a former mentor of mine bid me on a government contract to be the lead librarian for a federal agency. And so for six years, I was worked in that space, still health communication, still working as a public health subject matter expert. So keeping that thread alive, but focusing a lot on research and librarianship and information management, while simultaneously having my own business, my own small consulting firm where I do public health projects on the side and knowledge management projects. But then in that librarian role, I fell in love with the projects that these teams were doing, like categorizing 4,000 pages of content so that it's, you know, more findable, more usable, you know, things like that. So I would volunteer for all these things, volunteer for taxonomy, governance committee, all these things. And so I gradually moved into being a content strategist working on health websites. And so what I do right now is I am a senior content strategist and I work on a federal government website helping to make it better for users. And I've got a consulting firm where I do both public health projects and knowledge management projects. Somewhere along the way, I got my UX certification, my knowledge management certification. So I do a lot of different things, and I'm really feeling like I'd like to move back into being more people-oriented, being more program-oriented, coalition building, back more into the public health hands-on experience. Because I think being in front of a computer all day is not what I want to do for the next 10 years.
SPEAKER_02So we'll see.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we'll talk about that too on an episode about technology and work and being in front of computers and if there's a future of work for many people without being in front of a computer and some of those questions.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I feel like I gotta have to do an addendum right now because not wait for next time to my current job. Should you be listening? I love you and I love the team. Happy doing it. Please don't fire me. Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER_01Yes, this is a beautiful station on this path that you've been on because you mentioned, I think it was in the last episode, that you started out thinking you were going to be a doctor. You started out going to medical school. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yep, yep, that's true. In my 20s, I did a year of medical school because I love science so much. Back to the poem with Mr. Fenwell. Um, and I loved it. I loved the science, especially biochemistry. I worked in a pharmacology lab. So hi, shout out to Dr. Wecker. And I loved the science, but I didn't like the healthcare aspect.
SPEAKER_02And I didn't like the ooey-gooey aspect.
SPEAKER_00And so I, yeah, I switched to public health, which was completely the right place for me. And then if you pair that with library science, it's like, oh, I wanted to know what doctors know, but not do what doctors do. And as a public health or medical librarian, that's exactly what I have.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You found your way. I did accidentally. You did. So that is a really nice spot for this next question I have for you because where you are now reflects so many different choices that you made over time. I mean, choices about jobs and where to live and who to be around and what to think. So, a question I have for you is what's a choice you've made that you're so grateful for?
SPEAKER_00Ah, oh, yeah. Hands down, leaving medical school. I didn't realize you were gonna ask me that, but yeah, I feel like that was the best decision that I ever made. And it was made against a lot of resistance from my family. Oh my God.
SPEAKER_01It was like, and I was-they were invested in you becoming a doctor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think so. I think they were, yes. I mean, at least that's if they weren't, then they can tell me differently. But I think they were. And, you know, it was like, well, just finish. You don't have to practice. And I thought, I already know I don't want to take people's lives into my hands. How am I gonna go through third year and fourth year?
SPEAKER_01You know, how am I gonna, you know, that's a lot of years, yeah, just to just go through it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And why are we gonna spend the money and all this? So um I was very conscientious and very, you know, people pleasy back in the day. And I wanted to get the nerve up to make that decision against what other people wanted was a big deal. And I don't regret it at all. In fact, I'm really close friends with many people that were in my class. Let me see, one, two, three, four, at least five of them do not practice anymore. Yeah, and I want actually, I hope she will come on the podcast. Uh, one of my dear friends who started her career as an engineer and then became a vascular surgeon. And I mean, she is brilliant and really worked hard, you know, all the imagine all the years that that took, and then opened a vein clinic and then ultimately left the practice. So I would love for her to tell her story, but but I have several friends that just yeah, they they left it. Now, if I would have continued, I would have been one of the functional medicine, you know. I always wanted how I always wanted prevention and nutrition, which is public health. So I I ended up in the right spot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you really did. That's so interesting what you were talking about. Family pressure, peer pressure, societal pressure, that often affects our choices and our decisions really strongly, especially when we're younger. And so I'm just curious, do you ever think about why your family might have wanted you to be in the medical field so badly? I mean, there's definitely a cultural element because I know my family, part of my family, the big part, is Italian. And in Italian families, you gotta be a doctor.
unknownYou gotta go.
SPEAKER_01If you're not a doctor, a lawyer, or I think that's pretty much it, all that you're allowed to be, then it just didn't work out for you. I'm so sorry about your family member. But but what do you what do you think the reasoning was?
SPEAKER_00Well I had doctors in the family, so maybe it was that. Maybe ultimately what they actually wanted was for me to have a secure career. And I think stability stability. And I think you know, my mom always says that I asked so many questions. I'm still asking so many questions, um, but I asked specifically medical and science related questions. She's like, just go, you know, go to medical school. I don't know the answer. It's too bad, you know, we didn't have some of the, you know, internet back, you know, or well, we did, but not, but barely, you know, so um, or or AI or whatever. Uh, so I think that I think it was well intentioned. Well intentioned. Oh, definitely. But the pressure, it didn't feel good at the time. So I think that would be the decision that I'm proudest of. And I'll tell you a second one. I had a job that I just loved so much, and I loved the work I did. And that this was one I think we talked on another episode about the two really awful bosses I had. And so this was one of the awful bosses, and I made the decision after a year to leave because of the environment. And I think I told you on another episode, like six years later, he ended up being written up. You know, they did articles about him in the newspaper and he was ousted and all that. But I am sad because that pathway I think would have been very fulfilling to me. But I'm also glad I made the decision because that led me into doing so many other things that I wouldn't have done that that just expanded my career, my my uh skill set, you know. So it all works out, but you never know, right?
SPEAKER_01You just know the things that we thought we were intended to do, they get taken away and we're so disappointed. But later on we look back and say, Oh, okay, yeah, that wouldn't have happened if so that leads me to a much bigger question, and this might not be a fair question, but what's your overall philosophy then on work in general?
SPEAKER_00That's a great question. I've been thinking a lot about this lately at this point in my career. My philosophy is that I'm a hard worker. I was raised by a whole slew of hard workers, like grandparents, my mom, my sister, we are hard workers. We are conscientious and efficient hard workers. So I enjoy working and I enjoy being productive. Let me say that. I enjoy being productive. My philosophy on work is that a 40-hour work week is not necessary. It's just not. And I think now when we have so many gaps, there's so many vacancies, and people are having to do so much more because there are less employees, let's say, like staff was fired, and but you have to make do and all this. I think that's That's creating an environment where people are ending up working more hours than 40 hours a week. But I think quality of life, if you look at other cultures and other countries, I think quality of life would be better and that people would end up being more productive with a less than 40-hour work week. So maybe a 32-hour work week, let's say, let's, for instance. So my philosophy on work is that it is important. It is important to be productive and to contribute to society and of course make a living. You know, you need to make money to live. But I think that people's identities are structured around what they do. Uh, there's a book I think I talked about on the last episode called The Good Enough Job that talks about the balance between work and life. So my philosophy on work is that we need an overhaul on our systems. I really think we need an overhaul. We need to look at how we got here and how we can progress. And that doesn't mean I'm not a hard worker. My favorite job was one where I did tobacco control at a university and I worked extremely hard. I did end up working more than 40 hours, and that was fine. I was, I was happy, you know, I loved it. Um, so I do think that we need an overhaul. I think a lot of people are not happy, and I don't know how we fix it or how we get there. I think, you know, with corporations, I don't, I feel like this the systems are broken and we need to fix it. But I do think we need to be productive.
SPEAKER_01Yes. It's interesting because when you are talking, I'm thinking about when the industrial revolution happened and eventually they had to pass laws restricting the work week to 40 hours. So now we're kind of at another phase where many people are saying, hey, let's look at that again. I think you read too the book, the four-hour work week.
SPEAKER_00I did. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01So I mean, talk about starting a riot. I mean, there's many reasons why people work the hours that they do. Sometimes it's because if you want to get ahead, I better see you in here on the weekends. Sometimes it's because that's just what we do, right? Everybody works 40 hours a week. They haven't consciously thought about why that takes place and whether or not it has to take place. And I know there's quite a bit of nervousness about AI because that's something where it's really helping some people in their jobs and their roles, but also what it's doing at the same time is it's creating an expectation to do more. Yes. In that same amount of time. Why don't you have that report written? Didn't you just use AI for it? You should have 10 reports due by now.
SPEAKER_00Right. No, I do sometimes I do wish for simpler times, you know, where you would go into a conference room for a meeting and be in the meeting and not be checking your email, doing a project on your computer, getting Slack messages all day long. You know, you're in the meeting. While you're on the thing, right? Yeah, right, right.
SPEAKER_01Yes, definitely. The multitasking of it all. Right.
SPEAKER_00I am a good multitasker though, ironically. Very good. Yeah, I wish for simpler times.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. We could join an intentional community somewhere. We'd still have to work though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we'd still have to work, I think. And no offense. I'm like, oh my God, I hope no future job prospects get the wrong idea by what I'm saying. I'm a very hard worker. You know, you were my boss.
SPEAKER_01I know, you're very hard worker. Well, speaking of bosses, you mentioned bosses that you had that were negative encounters in your life, right? We all meet people that um we maybe wish we hadn't met them or but I want to ask you a probing question about what is a positive encounter that you had with a person? One that maybe you still even think about to this day. Not necessarily a boss. Yeah, it can be anybody, just a positive encounter.
SPEAKER_00So the one that just popped up was I was on a metro in Maryland, and it was at the end of a day, and it was so crowded. And this woman, I I don't even know how to describe her, this older woman who just seemed worn out came on the metro, and I saw her, and my my thought was I want to give her my seat, but then I didn't like I waited for maybe five minutes, and then I finally gave her my seat. And the look, the the transformation of her face and her energy, she was so, I don't know, she was just so grateful to sit down. And I know that is such a small interaction, but it just made me feel so I felt so bad that I hadn't asked her sooner if she wanted my seat. And I felt so much empathy for what I imagined her day had been like or what her life maybe was like. And it just, but it stopped me in my tracks. It really made me feel like it's not all about you. You know, there's there are so many people around you going through so many things. And if you could just stop and see how you can be of assistance. I mean, I do not always do that, but in this moment, that's what struck me. And who knows where she is now. I hope she's super happy and sitting down.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just had a bad day and a bad week or something like that. What a beautiful observation that you made. Not just the fact that she was weary. I mean, that alone, the fact that you noticed another person was struggling. I mean, that's a difference between empathy and compassion, right? Or sympathy. Sympathy is I see somebody, I can tell by the expression on their face that they must be struggling. Empathy is I see the expression on their face, I can feel that weariness because I felt it myself, right? And then compassion, though, is saying, I see that look on her face, I know what weariness feels like, and I want to do something about it to help her, right? So you did that. You went from empathy to compassion and gave her your seat. Also, though, thinking about getting in that frame of mind for everybody we encounter, whether they're a total jerk, whether they did something that hurt our ego, no matter what it is, considering that at any given moment, anybody we encounter is struggling with something or could be struggling with something.
SPEAKER_00Right. Like for instance, I really tried hard with the one boss. He had a ring, constant ringing in his ear. He lived with a constant ringing in his ear. And so I would try to remember, you know, that would be really hard. And I also try to remember that that encounter, it shaped me in in some ways that I think were good. So you just have to take it as it comes, life.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, and just try to remember because sometimes we're in that space too. And we might not notice the person that looks weary, or we might not give somebody the benefit of the doubt, or we might take it personally, even though and then we just hope somebody else gives us that same grace that they consider that we might be oh my god, please, yes, please give us grace.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01So okay, I have another question for you. Let's say that I saw you looking weary. Oh, what's something that would light you up? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, just seeing you would like, you know, like just being like, dang, you know. But yeah, so seeing friends lights me up. I would say music really lights me up. You know, if you happen to have a drum set in your pocket and let me play on it, that would really be exciting. That would be crazy. Um, and not to mislead the audience, I cannot play the drums, but I am a wannabe. Um, so I think I think connection really will light me up. Positive connection, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and positive connection with music and music.
SPEAKER_00I gotta gotta love music.
SPEAKER_01So, so what's a song that you really love that lights?
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. There are so many, but um I would say a song that I really love. I'm gonna take this moment. I'm gonna look here on my computer. I'm gonna take this moment to give a shout out to uh a local. Well, they're not local anymore, they're in Minneapolis, I think, but the singer was from Tampa. It's a band called Bad Bad Hats.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes, you share bad, bad hats with me.
SPEAKER_00And there's a song called Bored in the Summer that I just love so much. So that's one. And then another one is called Surefire, and it's by a band called Wil Dorado. Oh my gosh, I've never even heard of that before. Yeah, and it is it is an ode to living in the present and embracing the passage of time. And so I don't know if this is true, but I saw on um online that one of the people in the band wrote it after reading a poem, I think by Tabitha King called A Gradual Canticle for Augustine. Oh my gosh, that tone is incredible. I know it describes a bear waking up and experiencing the world for the first time and hibernating through winter. This is what the internet says. I don't know if it's true. I should, I should have, I should fact check this, but nevertheless, surefire, the lyrics are beautiful. And so that one is one I really love. And then I heard too this morning, so fun. It's called Love Spell by Shofi, S-H-O-F-F-Y, and Five and Dime by Mills.
SPEAKER_01Oh I was just like this morning, like, wow, these are so fun. Oh, we have to figure out a way to play little snippets. I said that last time. Oh my god, I hope we can. Yeah, well, I actually looked into it a little bit and it says that you really can't play the actual music. You're not really safe, but what you can do is you can sing it. Oh especially within the content. I am so bad at singing. Okay, so we'll reflect on that for now. I'm going to look those up after our podcast because I am really excited because only one of those I have heard of before. I haven't heard the other one. So I'm really excited to check those out.
SPEAKER_00And I feel theoretically, I'm like, could we play bad bad hats? Like we know somebody, but maybe maybe if we got permission. Maybe if we got permission, but maybe whoever publishes them, you know, whoever is their record. But you know, I could ask, but I I think it's so cool when you actually know somebody in the band. It's like, what? Yeah. You do that for a living right there. They do that for a living. Yes. Wouldn't you want it? I mean, not that I want to be in a band, but you want to talk about feeling joy.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, definitely. Now, I have to say, so the people that are musicians would probably say this that it's not all groupies and glory. Yeah. That there's times when they really, really, really struggle. Yeah. But to your point, what a beautiful thing to be able to take a gift and to be able to have the courage to say, you know what, I don't know if necessarily this will be profitable at the level that I would like it to be, but I'm going to do this because I love it. And I'm good at it.
SPEAKER_00And I'm good, yeah. And I will say, to your point, yes, it is not all fun. I saw a play, it was called Stereophonic. It was three hours and 20 minutes. And I think I think what they wanted to do was show you the tedium that was associated with making a major album. It would took place in the music studio. My friend said, I don't know if it was based on Fleetwood Mac, but he was like, This reminds me of their story. And but nevertheless, you felt the tedium.
SPEAKER_02Oh no.
SPEAKER_00Which is not fun from a play, right? That's like the play waiting for Godot. You know, I was just going to say that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was going to say maybe that was their inspiration that they saw. They thought waiting for Godot, but for music.
SPEAKER_00Oh my God, waiting for Godot is the most painful, tedious. But anyway, and so that can be great if you are into, you know, you want the the artsiness of it, but I want to enjoy the play. And so in that case, I recommend six because it was so everything the opposite of that play. It was so upbeat and happy. And well, I don't know if it was happy, but it was empowered. It was empowered. And you just saw that, didn't you? I did see it, yeah. Okay. So that's a recommend. Uh definitely six. Yeah, it's it's not what you, you know, it's not what I expected. It's about the six wives of Henry VIII, which is very interesting. And it's a musical. So I didn't know if it was like somber or what. No, I'm talking girl power. I'm talking like it was so much fun. Girl band, drummer, you know. Oh, it was amazing.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's a good recommendation. Then I want to see that. Did did you see Tick Tick Boom? No, was it good? It is so powerful. It's about Jonathan Larson. Do you know who he is? Okay, well, I'm not going to get huge into it here, but one of my favorite composers, musicians, artists, I think he's absolutely brilliant, is Lynn Manuel Miranda. Oh, yeah. He did, of course, Hamilton, and then he did kind of Encanto, and he did what's the other Disney movie about the Polynesian girl. Yeah, I can picture her. Oh, I am Moana. It's Moana, isn't this girl? So yeah, it was about him writing a musical so that he could get into the theater industry. And it took you from the beginning through to eventually where it turned out, I don't want to give give it away, but it's really, really powerful because he ended up winning all these awards for his work. But what he had to go through together in the beautiful Andrew Garfield played him in the movie version. I mean, he it was his personality, his style, his dedication, his motivation, his talent was incredible. But you can tell it just ran, it wrung him out every part of him. And all those awards came posthumously because he didn't live long enough to be able to actually see his incredible work that he that he was working toward.
SPEAKER_00Oh my goodness. Oh my God. I want to say yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's just, yeah, it's very, very powerful. And of course, the music is incredible too. So so while we're talking about artists, I have to ask you because you are an artist and you're very creative and you have all kinds of different avenues for that. Do you have an artist that moves you?
SPEAKER_00Ah, yeah. Okay, I'm glad you asked me this. I do. And the the answer I'm going to give you today is not necessarily who I would have given you a few weeks ago, but I had the opportunity to go to London and I saw there was a museum called the Moco Museum. And there was an artist named Robbie Williams, who also is a musician, by the way. Oh, wait, not Robbie Williams, the pop musician? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the same. Yeah, because I looked it up. Yeah. And there was a piece of art. It looks like like when you're traveling in the countryside and you have a sign with arrows saying, you know, go left, go right for this town, you know. So on the left, I had the arrows going towards the left that said you're limiting beliefs, and the arrows going towards the right that said the life you have yet to live, or something like that. And I was just like, wow, wow, this is it. This is the message. So I think he's really all of his stuff was powerful like that. So I'm gonna say right now, he's the one. He's who I want to see.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So suggesting that your limiting beliefs are in the opposite direction of where you want to go.
SPEAKER_00The life yeah, the life you have left. Like you could still like I love the stories about people who who later in life do the thing that you know, if you just look at my own mother, her her reinventions along the way of her life and the things she's done. So I feel like you have so much life left to live, presume theoretically, presumably. And even even if your time is limited, there's still time to do something, you know, or to feel something good.
SPEAKER_01Yes, people say, oh, it's too late, or I invested too much. And what I love about the image that I have in my head from Robbie Williams' work that you just described is it seems like he's suggesting that you're constantly facing those two signs. Yes, and then it might be as simple as just turning to the right. That's right. We get ourselves all tangled up in all these things, but at the end of the day, just turn right and go and go towards the yes.
SPEAKER_00Uh um, somebody just told me a story. The short version is that she has a problem with her knee and it's hard for her to get up, and she wanted to be able to go on this Mediterranean cruise and to go with her family on this cruise. And so people were trying to talk her out of it. No, no, no. So, anyway, she arranged to have a wheelchair here, there, and everywhere. And my God, if she didn't just go and have the best time ever wheeling around all these different Mediterranean cities, you know what I'm saying? So like she still could enjoy her life. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So oh my gosh. Okay, well, I have a couple more questions for you. I know that you are getting ready to go volunteer. And so we might we might talk about that in a minute. But before, since we're on the artist and art and music, you are also, I know, a voracious reader. I don't know anybody that reads as much as you do. Oh, so wonderful because I get all these recommendations. What's a book that's had an influence in your life? Or maybe just one that you want to share? What's something that has left an impression on you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, one that I love and that comes to mind right away is The Alchemist, um, by Paolo Coelho. Is that how you say it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Paolo Coelho, that's one of my favorites too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. The message of it, I internalized it, you know, and I I should live that more. But it just was so powerful to me about the being where you are, what you are seeking is here already.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, it's here, yeah, and that you can get lost in the looking, but also the journey is also the hero's journey because even though it was the same place that he left when he had to, he was different, and so he was different and he could see it with different eyes. Yes, yes, yes, so beautiful, yes, that's a magnificent book.
SPEAKER_00Um, another one that is really good that I've talked to you about is Theo of Golden. It's I feel like you live that way, like this guy, Theo. I want to be a Theo. I mean, it's just so beautiful. I want more Theos in the world.
SPEAKER_01And you said just so people know if they haven't had had a chance to read it, um, one of the reasons you love that is because it's about a man who goes to a coffee shop and there's all portraits of the locals on the walls, and he decides that he's going to buy a portrait of a local each time and then go bring it to them. And when he brings it to them, he meets them and they share stories, and it's about that connecting.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01That's what it sounded like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's so beautiful. And the like he sees beauty in every aspect of life. He really stops to literally stops to smell the roses, and it's so nice because we can get so distracted. I'm telling myself this too. We can get so distracted that when you have a moment that brings you to the present, it's just wonderful. You stop and notice a flower or whatever, or that somebody's weary and needs a hand, that kind of thing. You are very good at that, you personally. Thank you. You're welcome.
SPEAKER_01I practice definitely because there's been so many times in life when I realized that I was constantly thinking about what I did in the past and how I could change it or do better or improve. Or I was thinking about the future, something that was coming up, and so many presentations. Moments passed by, and so many people passed by, and so many things passed by, and so and I passed by, you know. Yeah, that's that Gurdjieff talks about that self-remembering, those moments where not the moments where you force yourself and say, Oh, I have to remember who I am, because again, that's taking yourself away from yourself. But when you can be truly one with the present moment and remember your essence, yourself, and be in that moment, that's where we're all meant to be. But we are so often in the past or in the future and not here. Be here now, says Ramas again. Well, you have to go. Can I ask you one more question before you do? Yes, yes. I'm so excited. This is called Wisdom Teller. I wondered if maybe you have a piece of wisdom that you would be willing to share with people. Um, maybe one that was really helpful that was shared with you, or just one that you learned along the way that you think people might want to know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I have two. It might sound generic, but trust yourself. And I'm saying this piece of wisdom, but doesn't mean that I necessarily always have this piece of wisdom. So I need to like my wise self says to me and everyone else, trust yourself, really trust yourself. Um, and the second piece of wisdom that I think is specific to me, that I've gotten in different ways throughout the years from different people, is to slow down.
SPEAKER_02Slow down.
SPEAKER_00And I get that um in Buddhism, they talk about an echo where it's basically like the universe. Um I hope Pama Children's not listening to this right now. I hope Buddha's not listening to this right now. Well, Pama Children, actually, I hope she is listening, but I'll probably get this wrong. But it's something like it's like the universe is trying to give you a message, you know, and when you don't listen, it's get louder and louder. And you and I call it the taxi, you know, cheek slam where you slammed up against the channel. Anyway, but I I have gotten the message over the years to slow down. And something as simple as like shaving my legs and cutting myself. I always I'm like, oh yeah, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01If I had only been slowing up. Yeah, those are the really the the really obvious ones. Some are not so obvious, right? Like if I had slowed down, I probably would have caught that or noticed that or enjoyed that more.
SPEAKER_00Or yeah, so slow down. And I think those are two pieces. So yay. That's that's what I got for the day.
SPEAKER_01Those are wonderful. Well, we'll tap more in more into your wisdom because you have so much in it. Oh my god, I appreciate it. And I appreciate it. And thank you for being the first interview on Wisdom Teller. That was so wonderful. I have a billion more questions for you, but you're going to um volunteer now. Do you want to say with who?
SPEAKER_00Or yes, I do want to say because I'm going to the orientation. It's Meals on Wheels, Tampa Bay. Yay. And I, a friend of mine, or friend and former colleague of mine, is the CEO. And I did a project for them. It's called Knowledge Retention, where I interviewed the previous CEO to get some institutional knowledge before he left and to help the current CEO with what she needed. And I fell in love with the organization. I was like, I need to do this. And so they deliver meals to people over age 65 and people who are disabled. And so I'm going to learn how to do that and sign up for a route.
SPEAKER_01I love that you're doing that. I love Meals on Wheels. When mama couldn't make herself any food and we all had to work, Meals on Wheels would come over every day and they would bring her a meal and they would talk with her. I fell in love with them. And without them, there would be chunks in the day when she wouldn't have anybody. So bringing that connectedness together, that loneliness together, we're so fortunate to have meals on wheels in our community. And the people that do it in the volunteers, they're just delightful. And you're delightful. And now you're so that's thank you.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I mean, I need to start, but yeah, and the CEO. Hopefully, she'll I would love to interview her because I mean, if that doesn't inspire you, I don't know what does. She is amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Okay, well, let's let you have at it. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much. Um, I can't wait till our next one. Have a beautiful day. You too, bye. Thank you, bye.